https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/03/ jason-reza-jorjani-stony

Jacobin articles read like ISO leaflets printed by pink-washed dweebs at the local community college.

>>9223321
no shit the left isnt consistent, it is a nearly uselessly large categorization

is this a quote from the article?

>>9223321
Why not go back to the basics? Observe, discuss and analyze. As long as it isn't ex post rationalizations about why the working class is always best, I'd love to read an intelligent class analysis.

>>9223345
yeah, but they're still fun to read and there are some gem of an article stuffed in between a few dozen of cheap platitudes

do you hate other people having fun anon?

the left is obsolete and should go to hell and the alt-right should double down on post-marxism and identitarianism

>>9223345
this. plus reading it I cant shake the impression that the intended audience is a bunch of limp wristed fedora high school students like >>9223366 and other /leftypol/ immigrants

>Jorjani believes that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was an aerial attack and that Lot’s subsequent abandonment of the area indicates nuclear fallout. He thinks “some kind of anti-gravitational beam from out of the cylindrical object hovering over the [Red] Sea” destroyed the Egyptian chariots during the exodus.

>The Arc of the Covenant “apparently acts as a pathfinder or guidance system” as well as a “sonic weapon” since it “interacts with vibrations of sound, possibly amplifying and concentrating the sonic waves before directing them at the walls of Jericho."

interesting

>also: 'arc?'

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I always knew this would happen. If we should replace grand, universal narratives with small, local narratives, as Lyotard says, why shouldn't these metanarratives be about Hyperborean Aryans from Atlantis?

I don't know who was more stupid. The left, for providing the intellectual framework an anti-Enlightenment right, or the mainstream conservatives who held progressive rationalists like Allan Bloom and Alain Sokal as heroes because they criticize the post-modern left, without realizing these ideas were more useful to them.

>>9223366
>do you hate other people having fun anon?
Nazis hate fun. That's how you can detect them.

>>9223393
Arc of the Covenant is mentioned in Exodus.

>>9223321
Fucking idiot, the article is targeting post-structuralism, not the Frankfurt School writ large. Marx's philosophy is clearly an outgrowth of certain aspects of Enlightenment philosophy. You gotta believe in truth and reason, you know? A bourgeois superstructure uses cultural hegemony and coercion to obscure the true nature of being. Spencer and Jorjani are great to have around because they show that the philosophical core of post-structuralist identitarianism (or bourgeois postmodernism, whatever you want to call it) is as logically applicable to white/'Aryan' racial politics as it is to other, more conventionally tolerated race or gender identitarians.

>>9223366

Incendiary and plainly stupid remarks, like labeling a complex thinker like Heidegger a 'Nazi philosopher', or lumping anarchic Ernst Jünger in with the toadies of nationalism, detract from much of the fun I could glean from such a thing.

>>9223410
>>9223410
Actually, the right wing has been extremely post-modern for a while, sometimes capital seems to operate on nearly deleuzian inversion tactics, the news is that retarded white trash and weekend ideologues have discovered them as well.

Also, it's only a matter of time before we have right-wing critical theory, and it kinda baffles me it doesn't exist already, the Frankfurt methodology would fit certain right wing narratives very well.

>>9223431
>gotta believe in truth and reason
>depending on implicit belief this much
This just goes to show how rotten the concept of "Reason" is - Darwinism itself shows that the ecosystem isn't a fixed, "balanced" system but something constantly changing, and never in a predictable way. If you want to uphold the concept of Reason, you'll inevitably have to turn to flimsy metaphysical justifications instead of raw empiricism. Remember that humans are survival machines that happen to think, not thinking machines.

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>>9223421
disliking Jacobin makes you a Nazi? the fuck?

if we give scum like you enough power, eventually everyone who doesn't lick the Dear Leader's revolutionary toes with 110% enthusiasm is some kind of reactionary fascist. Get fucked

>>9223345
I like jacobin

t. not lefty

>>9223321
It seems like many people on the right don't actually believe in anything, they are merely convinced there's a sinister, all powerful conspiracy against them. The content of the conspiracy doesn't matter inasmuch as the fact that it is a conspiracy. Maoists, Hillary Clinton, anarchists, IdPol hacks, the Soviet Union, normies who read adorno once, and anyone who disbelieves in the conspiracy partake in the conspiracy and are thus exactly the same. Even gibberish like 'the aryan race are the children of the sun' or politicised ancient astronaut gobbledygook are to be tolerated because their proponents have proved they stand against The Conspiracy.

>>9223455
To be fair, Heidegger was a nazi, and he was a philosopher.

>>9223614
>It seems like many people on the right don't actually believe in anything, they are merely convinced there's a sinister, all powerful conspiracy against them. The content of the conspiracy doesn't matter inasmuch as the fact that it is a conspiracy.
>implying the left isn't guilty of the same kind of persecution complex
You might as well dismiss things like "structural racism" on the same terms that you did. What's happening now is just an approppriation of left-style identitarian politics by the right wing (just like nazism strongly mirrored the Soviet Union), or if the Jacobin article is correct, a reapproppriation of them.

>>9223629
yeah, but at least he repented. Ideologues always think people can't change or adapt, which is one of the glorious things about humans

>>9223649
>yeah, but at least he repented.
lol

>>9223614
>>9223648
Hell, even Marxists are guilty of the same kind of persecution complex, dismissing anything that goes against them or their policies as "reactionary burgeois/fascist thought".

>>9223656
you don't think he was sincere?

>>9223648
The left is far from a monolith, there have always been left wing critics of 'identity politics', the USSR and almost anything you can think of. The right's narrative sees history as an endless succession of victories for 'the left'. Which is basically a result of taking the liberal narrative of symbolic-cultural progress at face value and conflating it with leftism. When actually we've seen a near total collapse of the labor movement and the welfare state, the resurgence of militarism and an increasingly totalitarian security apparatus, all aided and abetted by the liberal 'left' in collusion with capital and the electoral 'right'.

>>9223680
my point is it doen't matter if he was sincere. nazis are evil and should all be killed.

>>9223680
Do you have a source for your suspicions? I don't think he did, no, but I'm rusty on the bio.

>>9223649
He was far from an orthodox national socialist, but in the end he saw lots of potential in Hitler for some reason

>>9223713
>The right's narrative sees history as an endless succession of victories for 'the left'.
You're absolutely correct on all of your assertions, and this just reinforces my position that right-wing thought is a kind of twisted mirror to leftist thought (but never the other way around). It's funny how US conservatives harp on about the "good old times" when during the majority of the 1950's the tax on the earnings of the uppermost economic segments of the population regularly reached 90%.

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>>9223321
>thinking that a leftism conditioned by postmodernism will survive re-entry into the rationalist, Enlightenment world-view

I don't want to be presumptuous about what beliefs this leftism contains, but many fashionable leftist viewpoints are just not going to survive contact with the results of sciences like economics and biology.

The leftists are also going to come into greater contact with the "trough-minded" crowd, who occupy the rationalist, Enlightenment world-view. These people are invariably moderates and right-wingers, and they will take absolutely no remorse in continuing to tear the left's viewpoints to shreds, and this time to a much greater effect, because the leftists occupy the same epistemological space.

>>9223750
>sciences like economics
haha oh wow

>>9223750
Biology is quite important and one only needs to look at the history of science in the Soviet Union to see how it can affect ideology and is therefore incompatible with a rigid ideologically motivated regime, but I'm pretty sure 75% of all of the opinins of economists can be safely disregarded as non-empiricist bullshit. The core of science is accepting the results from experiment regardless of how it violates any kind of first principle - a kind of rejection of rationalism.

>>9223321
>When will you realize that the left is not consistent in anything other than the intelligentsia's pursuit for absolute power.
>>pursuit for absolute power.

The disturbing thing to me is that people actually believe this conspiracy theory nonsense. Yes, of course, the leftist academics seek ABSOLUTE POWER, that's why they work for shit wages and talk about books with small groups of students... instead of, I don't know, running for political office, ammassing wealth or weapons, or do something that might actually give them POWER.

It's your own boogeyman. You have to cast the left as a vast conspiracy to rationalize your own politics.

Let me assure you, we're not taking over the world. I'm going to read some Baudrillard today and probably eat some food and masturbate and take a shower and hang out with some friends. Friends with all sorts of interesting backgrounds, friends I can call friends even though they might not look like me, or even share my same opinions.

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>this thread

>>9223770
>and the award for incorporating the most spooks in one post goes to...
I doubt you or your friends are worthwhile people.

>>9223770
Have you ever heard of "the long march through the institutions"? And what kind of better institution to march through than the one that produces the majority of a society's academics?

>>9223788
In practice, 'the institutions' domesticated 60s radicals into managerial acceptability. Even stuff like identity politics originated in Lenin's theory of imperialism and Mao's third worldist epistemology, just notice, completely detached from their context in revolutionary communism. The 'great marxist conspiracy' was an unprecedented failure. Rightists and liberals exist within the same, purely 'cultural' plane, within which the political economy remains unquestioned.

>>9223788
That certainly isn't "ABSOLUTE POWER" though, right?

And it's not a conspiracy. It's people sharing their beliefs, ideologies, opinions, and doing so openly. There are plenty of traditionalists in academia as well. Lots of catholic colleges and conservative colleges. They function the same way, replicating knowledge/ideology. It's fine. There's nothing to be scared about any of that, it's the only way to share knowledge.

>When will you realize that the left is not consistent in anything other than the intelligentsia's pursuit for absolute power.

OP is right, the left is not consistent. There is a lot of variety to what he's calling the left. And we're certainly not joined together in some conspiratorial pursuit of ABSOLUTE POWER. There's lots of infighting and disagreement. Lots of competing forces.

I attended a very left leaning institution. If I had to describe it's power dynamics, I'd say the ideological struggles revolved around Formalism vs Absurdism/Nihilism vs Feminism(and other Liberation Ideologies) vs Multiculturalism.

Formalism probably had the upper hand, most of the professors were of that mind set, and of that generation of the 40s, 50s, 60s.

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>>9223750
>"trough-minded" crowd, who occupy the rationalist, Enlightenment world-view.
AKA the youtube 'skeptic' community

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>>9223770
This "small groups of students" is usually the future elite, so yes, they are pretty powerful.

Not to mention that the worldview of the academia trickles down to the masses through media and journalism, so whoever control the universities controls the future.

That's not me saying this, anyway, it's in the Port Huron Statement.

Neoliberalism doesn't changes this, as political power is above economical power, see companies toeing the SJW party line and hiring diversity consultants as example.

>>9223870
man, remember when the left used to like guns?
>captcha: AMMO TOUR

I swear to god half of you have never set foot inside a semi-prestigious academic institute in your life.

the naivety ITT is astounding

>>9223892
>Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

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>>9223900
Please enlighten us on the subject, then. Spouting useless platitudes isn't helpful at all.

>>9223900
I'll have you know college/academia is a bourgeois conspiracy

>>9223870
Trust me, we are not the future elite. Any degree where you actually spend time discussing post-modernism or leftist ideology does not prepare you to become a media executive or judge or a politician or a stock market broker or a doctor or have any career which could make you part of the "elite".

>Not to mention that the worldview of the academia trickles down to the masses through media and journalism, so whoever control the universities controls the future.

Again, this conspiratorial, "trickles down to the masses". NO SHIT, teaching knowledge spreads knowledge. It's as if education is some dark act!

>its another thread where crossboarders try to discuss postmodernism without ever reading its associated thinkers

WHOI WONT DEY JUSS STOP RUINING EVERYTHING!!?

>>9223770

More than 80% of academics are leftist today, with that number approaching 95% in places like New England. Most ideological opponents have been driven out. The university administration firmly abides by leftist values. You don't consider that a conquest with tremendous social implications?

>>9223936
What? I'm fully aware, for one, of how many, many /pol/tards would agree with half of what Adorno says if they ever bothered to read him.

>>9223847

So what you're saying is that leftism is stronger than ever, except that it has been left impotent in any way that challenges the inherent capitalist structure. Few conservatives would challenge that assertion. That doesn't mean that there aren't important economic, political, and social consequences to those trends. Now the government can conduct corporatist policy without fear of criticism as long as they can attach identity politics to it. Society has been debased in order to further commoditize it. This is a cancer that both non-identitarian Marxists and conservatives recognize... so why aren't we teaming up to fight it?

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>>9223917

Lmfao what? If you're being taught that garbage at a top-tier university, then it directly prepares you for that career. You think that there's higher standards at an Ivy League? I've got news for you pal. Wake up.

>>9223746
The 'good ol' times' of the postwar era were obviously an anomaly in the greater scheme of things. Before the war, you had an active labor movement and a real prospect of revolution, the downfall of capitalism was seen as only a matter of time. By the late 60s, the whole structure was showing cracks, and by the time of Watergate and the OPEC crisis everyone knew the great decline had begun. The golden age of capitalism lasted at most 25-30 years, and that's stretching it. Not to mention how over romanticized it is-The archetypal 50s dad may have had crippling PTSD from the war. Both rightists and social democrats are really fixated on this post war ideal, even on the identity politics side of things you see this aspiration towards a middle class standard of acceptability that probably never existed.

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>>9223870
>That's not me saying this, anyway, it's in the Port Huron Statement.
You are forgetting the most famous signatory of the Port Huron declaration. Most of those 60s radicals ended up either like him or sold out completely.

>>9223971
I think the biggest factor in the "golden age of capitalism" for the Western world, and the "golden age of socialism" in the Eastern Bloc which many Russians, Serbians and East Germans still miss, was the lack of Asian competition in manufacturing.

It was easy to maintain unproductive steel factories in Pittsburgh, Lille and Kharkov, giving everyone good jobs with decent salaries, before you had to compete with Koreans and Japanese (and later Chinese).

>>9223999
What makes the Asians exceptional for manufacturing in your opinion?

>>9224013
2000 years of tyranny broke their thirst for freedom and made them perfect slaves.

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Honestly, the Left, specifically people like Sartre opened Pandora's box.

They deliberately misinterpreted Nietzsche, and then went on to rail against all the values of the West, thinking that it would actually produce anything good.

Instead it will inevitably destroy the West, and countries like China with their authoritarian capitalism and Russia with their pseudo-Bolshevism will take over.

>>9224022
Freedom, maybe, but the Chinese still have some standard for good ruling (even if it's one founded on a terrible "Might Makes Right" basis) with the Mandate of Heaven.

>>9223762
Quine pls

>>9223321

When will leftists realize class struggle isn't even remotely the driving force of history? When will leftists realize the transition from feudalism to capitalism didn't happen because people hit the streets?

Stop reading philosophers and read some actual history for fuck sake.

>>9224078
Good ruling + obedient slaves = Manufacturing prowess

How can Western unruly trade unionists even compete with the Big Asian Workforce?

>>9224036
The deconstruction of the West has been running ever since the First World War was over, though.

>The trouble was that by about 1930 there was no activity, except perhaps scientific research, the arts, and left-wing politics, that a thinking person could believe in. The debunking of Western civilization had reached its Climax and ‘disillusionment’ was immensely widespread. Who now could take it for granted to go through life in the ordinary middle-class way, as a soldier, a clergyman, a stockbroker, an Indian Civil Servant, or what-not? And how many of the values by which our grandfathers lived could not be taken seriously? Patriotism, religion, the Empire, the family, the sanctity of marriage, the Old School Tie, birth, breeding, honour, discipline — anyone of ordinary education could turn the whole lot of them inside out in three minutes. But what do you achieve, after all, by getting rid of such primal things as patriotism and religion?

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>>9224036
>china and russia will take over

W E W that meme expired about 5 years ago son. Both countries with terminal demography, strong tensions between regions, growing separatism, shit economies, laughable militaries, and no capacity for institutional change or innovation

>>9224036

This. It's so obvious that the laws of history are brutal and amoral. That if we decide to throw our values away, it won't be replaced with sudden secular utopianism, but by the strongest guy in the neighbourhood.
We are constantly morally blackmailed by a small group which holds such anachronistic ideas about world order and history itself.

>>9224036
>russia
>psuedo bolshevism
LMAO

>>9224116
>Stop reading philosophers and read some actual history for fuck sake

reading philosphers that aren't pseuds is fine - which excludes the Marxists and their fellow travelers. But still, this deserves a (You)

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>>9224142
Yes. Why do you think Putin invaded Crimea?

>>9224162
territorial ambitions

>>9224162

Dugin is a post-Evolian.

>>9224124
>The deconstruction of the West has been running ever since the First World War was over, though.

That might be true, but the point is that when you lose the ability to believe in certain values, you lose the ability to believe in values period.

Hence my admonition that they opened Pandora's box.

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>>9224162
To save face after the humiliating defeat of having Ukraine snatched from the Russian sphere of influence.

Russia will be lucky if it survives the coming 50 years, it doesn't have any conditions of taking over the world.

>>9223321
You know, I think the article that OP linked deserves discussion. But I really doubt anyone has read it, based on the convo happening here.

If the alt-right is hijacking post-modern ideas, it makes sense. The radical left and radical right share some of the enemies.

I personally see no reason to return to enlightenment thinking, scientific materialism and democratic liberation seem like dead ends at this point.

>>9224170
>Dugin is a post-Evolian.

No, he's a closet Bolshevik who wants to return all the land that Russia lost after the USSR broke apart.

>When /pol/, flinging their arms around widely like retards still manage to best /lit/'s Post-Marxists
No wonder the progressive establishment is panicking, anti-intellectuals shouldn't beat intellectuals at their own game.

>>9224162
do you find that people talk down to you in real life? You're childlike understanding of geopolitics aside I think you should seriously consider a career cleaning windows with your tongue or sweeping sawdust into piles.

>>9224179
r00d dude, I actually read it. It's a very short and simple article.

>>9224179
>I personally see no reason to return to enlightenment thinking, scientific materialism and democratic liberation seem like dead ends at this point.

The error is thinking that we have anywhere else to go.

>>9224180

I read his work. And look at his interviews on YouTube. He hates Marxism.

>>9224190
Rortyan ironism is the serious thinking man's epistemic paradigm.

>>9224193
I didn't say he was a Marxist. I said he was a Bolshevik. Bolshevism is a nationalistic form of socialism.

>>9224193
Frankly, Bolsheviks must have hated Marxism too, considering how much they distorted it.

>>9224183
Do you think you're smart by employing literal non-arguments?

>>9224190
I don't want to misunderstand you. Are you saying "A return to Enlightenment Rationalism is the only way forward?"

Or are you saying "There is no need to go anywhere".

Because I think that the Enlightenment tradition does seem really focussed on the sense of "going forward".

But I personally think that this is all unnecessary. The post-modern position seems like a fine terminal state. I see no need to progress into some new mode, as this one still feels very rich.

Can anybody provide any evidence that the "Alt-Right" (who?) is actively employing postmodern tactics? Outside of Evola /pol/ is entirely unread.

>>9224212
your opinion doesn't warrant an argument or criticism. it only warrants ridicule and speculation about the tragic life of someone stupid enough to genuinely hold it.

>>9224190
I agree. The question is whether people go willingly (by getting over the insane psychology and mimetics of culture-war deadlock) or unwillingly (by being made obsolescent by automation).

>>9224239
>your opinion doesn't warrant an argument or criticism.

Which is what pseudo-intellectuals or faggots without an argument always say.

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>>9224234
kellyanne conway is utilizing alternative facts to problematize metanarratives

>>9224224
As far as we are concerned, the liberal democratic and scientific paradigm is the end of human progress. Obviously, progress can still be made in further spreading and refining this paradigm.

I say, "as far as we are concerned" because it seems like the next level of human organization, if there is one, will be something only brought about by radical technological change, such as digital consciousness or whatever the hell. It's very, very far away.

And I don't mean to say that progress is inevitable. We are already stepping backwards into populist nationalism and post-modernism.

>>9224249
keep on thinking that champ. but picture this; A professional boxer could beat a child in a boxing match and it wouldn't be worth his time, after all he can't spend all his time fighting children or he would cease to be a professional boxer and he has nothing to prove, every intelligent person knows the child is dreaming and delusional and childlike. except the child of course.

>>9224234
That guy mentioned in the article, is knowledgeable of post-modern philosophy. Outside the United States, Alain de Benoist and the "Nouvelle Droite", which the alt-right tries to emulate, also refers to a lot of left-wing thinkers from the post-modern tradition.

It's too little, though. Most are still either in "leftists are dumb amirite" mindset. It's a pity. It's such an obvious possibility, an untapped potential right there in the political-cultural sphere, that I wish I was smart enough to be the one doing it.

>>9224274
Not him, but the problem with this is that liberal democracy and science are not pragmatic values.

Nothing about neither science nor liberal democracy tells individuals how to live their lives.

I could say for example, that liberal democracy is a good bedrock, but something further is needed.

Say, for example, that you have liberty. What guides you to use that liberty? At the moment, literally nothing other than maintaining the liberal democracy itself. Which isn't tenable.

It's almost as if liberal democracy is precisely what characterizes Nietzsche's Last Man.

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>guys, we need to rethink our strategy, AGAIN, for the 139643133 time

Just stop it already.

>>9224274
Fukuyama pls. Liberal democracies don't have many tools to deal with political shocks like mass migrations, for instance.

Why aren't you guys becoming Muslims yet?

I see Lacanians already perceiving in Islam the missing pieces for their theory. Liberal leftists never ever have a bad thing to say about Islam.
Neo-marxists insist upon the Christian roots of its model, but wish to get rid of the heretical tendencies within it ( which could be averted in Islam ).

So, just convert already. You're crypto-muslims now anyways. Enablers. And you're willing to hollow out the less appealing parts of your ideology to fit the narrative of Islam.

>>9224331
>I see Lacanians already perceiving in Islam the missing pieces for their theory

links plz

>>9224331
Theism doesn't work within my pragmatic error theory.

>>9223321
>In truth, Jorjani does away with much of the traditional Western canon and draws heavily, if eccentrically, on Eastern thought, from Japanese Zen Buddhism and Taoism to contemporary anime.
> to contemporary anime
>anime

>>9223421

>nazis hate fun

that's not true though, that's patently false.

>>9224331
are you proselytizing to us? On the surface level, at least Jesus didn't want anything for himself materially, while Muhammed was clearly an alpha type who advocated plunder and everything to be under his thumb.

>>9223852

>lots of different variations of nihilist, communist propoganda designed to destroy society are competing to see which poisonous ideology is best able to destroy nations and cultures and peoples.

>>9224298
When I say science and liberal democracy, I may seem to be excluding a lot, but there is a philosophical bedrock under it. It's the one Westerners live with. It involves a belief in human rights, reason, individual enjoyment of life, and so on. Many around here would critique this all as boring, hedonistic, etc. But one of the great features of the paradigm is that it allows for individuals to follow their own aesthetic and ethical ideas, which it does through sustaining freedom and order. You can sort of escape the order you live under and create your own niche. But then you might say that people are left directionless, which I think is foolish. There will always be some majority culture for most people to participate in, and the people who complain about directionlessness are usually the sort of people who carve their own path or follow one not often tread. In the end, people have direction. Life always finds it.

>>9224331

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWX1SKncyOA

This. We have reached a stage in which FEMEN "show ur tits" isn't empowering, but hijabs really are.

I already see them shouting allahu akbhar during their feminist marches.
It's starting to become very obvious that the whole "islamo-gommunism" isn't a joke anymore and the actual reality.

>>9224337

http://www.lacan.com/zizarchives.htm

>>9224355
I agree with you entirely. I just think that there needs to be some value that pushes the culture forward that isn't reducible to simply maintaining the system.

Like, of course we need electricians, because they keep the lights on, but we also need some value that gives people hope and makes them feels life is worthwhile. Else it will all degenerate.

>>9224331
Why don't rightists convert to Islam?

Most rightists still cling to a pseudo enlightenment liberal ideal nobody, not even they believe in anymore. Christianity was always uneasy with power and hierarchy, while Islam seems more holistic and accepting of it. Everything you hate is an offshoot of Christianity. Christ was a Flower Child, Muhammad a desert warlord. Who seems more trad? Maybe Islam really IS the answer and the logical conclusion to all human thought.

>>9224368
makes them feel*

>>9224369

Oh please you pathetic dolt. Only a few fringe voices among the right actually say this shit and they get shut down rather quickly, while your side gets nods and signs of interest when someone suggests Islam and Marxism complement eachother.

>>9224331
Islam is the cultural death of a civilization.

>>9223321
do people get paid money to write articles like this???

>>9224365

Holy shit, fuck Zizek seriously.

>my abrahamitic offshoot look on the human condition totally aligns with abrahamitic religions! will you look at that!

Just fuck him and his destructive crap.

>>9224368
For the moment, we can still try to further spread and refine the system. There must be some point at which we will reach the highest point of perfection we can achieve.

It seems a long way off and hopefully by that point we will begin transitioning to some radical form of social organization based on new technologies, as I suggested earlier.

Maybe that is not a good enough answer, but a key point of the paradigm is that it is flexible and open to change. If you see a hole, you ought to plug it.

>>9224378
any actual examples?

>>9224369
>Christ was a Flower Child
He wasn't though, Christ became a Flower Child around the 13th century.

>>9223456
Telos Journal might interest you especially the authors in/of the article.

http://www.telospress.com/review-of-piccone-and-kondylis/

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>>9224124
>>9224172
>Patriotism, religion, the Empire, the family, the sanctity of marriage, the Old School Tie, birth, breeding, honour, discipline
>values

>>9224422
Theory: the Communist hatred of these things are the only reason why Communism doesn't work.

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>>9224331
>>9224359
The ultimate consequence of liberation and boundlessness is its opposite.

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>>9224422
Fuck off Stirner.

>>9224116
>When will leftists realize the transition from feudalism to capitalism didn't happen because people hit the streets?
>Stop reading philosophers and read some actual history for fuck sake.

The irony here is amazing

>>9224378
Why do you think Islam is bad, when you agree with 90% of what Islamists believe? The right doesn't really care about muh rational enlightenment values, anyways. Islam is only seen as bad because it partakes in the phantom conspiracy together with Hillary Clinton, ZOG, the Frankfurt School, Buzzfeed, Chairman Mao and the Human Resources Department.

>>9223629

He was inactive after 1934. Calling him a 'Nazi philosopher' likens him to an official apologist, or a house nigger.

>>9224444
Conversion to Islam would lead only to stagnation. I'm not interested in a religion which is only a concealed veil for Arabism and got BTFO by a bunch of shit-flinging dark ages medievals

>>9224429
I like that the filename is "baudrillard(1).jpg", insinuating that you have more than one copy of that image saved.

>>9224406
not the guy you're responding too, but I've got a compy of "Michel Foucault and the Iranian Revolution". Many leftist thinkers around that period were interested in Islamic liberation as a revolution against the colonialist state.

In the end, what they thought might happen and what actually happened (a repressive theocratic Iran) were very different.

Anyway, I don't hold it against Foucault. The colonialist puppet state wasn't tenable. The Iranian Revolution did have leftist aspects, but they were quickly shut down by more conservative aspects of the culture.

Also, the Iranian Revolution bears absolutely no resemblance to what we see today in Iraq or Syria or the Islamic State So a lot of the Right's arguments about this kind of crap is completely baseless.

But yeah, there are historical connections between Pomo thinkers and Islamic Revolutionary ideologies. And that makes sense, when they share many of the same enemies.

>>9224609
This happened to Turkey, after becoming a democracy they've successively voted more and more conservative governments into power, completely the opposite of what the Western world thought would happen.

>>9224694
I would say that the Ayatollah in Iran was a Lenin-like character, such an adept stalwart that he managed to seize the situation. No other Muslim country had such a figure in the last half-century. Erdogan is just a bully and a thug like Putin, who despises the prodding and condescension he perceives from the West.

>>9224413
OP here, this:

>Conceptual contents (Denkinhalte) supposedly have meaning only in the context of specific circumstances; and all intellectual encounters, whether scientific, theological, or philosophical, must be understood as confrontations in the guise of something else. In the clashes of ideas or principles, it is ultimately human wills that are coming into conflict. And in the struggle for power between contending sides, rival actors formulate their positions by focusing on real or assumed enemies. Kondylis does not explicitly say that there is no rational standard to which competing views or creeds can be submitted by mutual consent. Rather he applies Carl Schmitt’s “criterion of the political,” as the drawing of friend-enemy distinctions, to a never-ending battle waged among rival epistemological and ethical creeds.

Is a more elegant way of expressing what I meant when I said that the ideas of the left are merely vessels in their pursuit for power.

>>9224609
>>9224694
This reminds me of an essay, "Orientalism and Orientalism in Reverse", written by an Arab intellectual analyzing Edward Said's ideas and their relation to the Iranian Revolution shortly after it happened. He argued that the rejection of the West was so total in many strains of postcolonial thought and in the Iranian Revolution that they both ended up as a kind of "Orientalism in Reverse" that stereotyped both all Westerners and the local culture, in that manner embracing local fundamentalisms as a kind of liberation.

>>9224733
Yeah, I mean, I can't really blame the Iranians for their complete distrust of the west. Not that I approve the way the govern today, but it's more free than colonial puppet state at least.

>>9223321

Summaring the entire thread, which is my doubt: But it's the fuckin entire humanos Race so fragile that it can't know that values are not something ontologically true? Must the normies really be treated Like cattle just to mantain the social contrato? Is the human experiência that fragile?

>>9224124
What was the true golden age of patriotism and traditional values? It never existed, unless you insist on taking the state ideology of the mid late victorian era at face value, when so much of it was just a mere excuse for vulgar economic accumulation. Even then, social critics insisted they were entering an era of unprecedented decline. Things changed a lot with the industrial revolution and the mass mobilisations of world war I. The concepts of 'family values' and 'patriotism' held in the 18th century were often at odds with their victorian incarnations. So basically, you have nothing to offer but sentimental, nostalgic gibberish of the worst kind.

>>9224854
I'm taking that quote from Orwell. It's probably true that these values were never really followed strictly and to their logical end, and they were never really consisent. Still, what I'm trying to spell out is that deconstruction wasn't really a product of some conspiracy, it just gave a honorific to something that was already happening.

>>9224827
huehuehue
Pare de postar do seu smartphone, caralho.

>>9224694
This time around, it's the liberal interventionists and neocons who've been flirting with the most reactionary strains of political islam, like the Saudis, Erdogan and the FSA in Syria. Even though their motives might be entirely cynical, they don't mind name dropping Edward Said when it's useful. The military industrial complex' foes (Iran, Shias, sometimes even the Kurds) always get judged by the most legalistic absolutist standards, though.

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>>9223321

That's what you get you dumb assholes. I hope they have gluten free and vegan options in the FEMA death camp.

>>9224898
Do you know who that drawn-up girl in the second boat in the back is? Is she an academic like Butler or just a meme?

>>9223870
Yeah, because of this there are about 10-15 universities that essentially operate as a major part of our shadow government. The others just follow their lead.

>>9223665
this desu

>>9224917

I have no idea desu.

>>9223665

protip: Most "Marxists" read Marx as little as possible. Instead they circlejerk around youtube videos of Zizek or Mouffe and Laclau.

If they read their Marx, they would realize that Marx recognized the importance and saw the potential of petit-bourgeois solidarity with proletarians at crucial historical moments (i.e. France 1848 as detailed in the Brumaire).

The blanket pejorativity of "bourgeois" is a little narrow-minded.

Marxists are stuck in an apoplectic Thermidor, too inveigled by teleologies to ever become effective. I do not exclude myself.

Although I am a futile aesthete, I dream of Marxists studying business and actually innovating profit-sharing business models that outperform their capitalist counterparts and changing the system from the inside out.

can we talk about books or is /lit/ just neckbeard nazis and basement dwelling commies bitching at eachother now?

go back to /pol/ and facebook, respectively, please

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>>9224952
>Marxists are stuck in an apoplectic Thermidor, too inveigled by teleologies to ever become effective. I do not exclude myself.

you should definitely kill yourself real real soon

>>9224971

Like your opinion matters.

>>9224952
A profit-sharing bank may be possible if we eliminate coercive systems of debt collection, such as in Islamic banking, but then again those banks were regimented around a religious authority. Still, if it happened once, it could happen again with the correct legislation/incentives...

Also, there's definitely a rupture betwenn local, small-mid businessowners and global tycoons coming up, just look at Trump's election.

>>9224975
you're fucking bad at writing

>>9224827
>no multilingual support on smartphone in current year
emarrassmento

>>9224952
>I dream of Marxists studying business and actually innovating profit-sharing business models that outperform their capitalist counterparts and changing the system from the inside out


That's vigorous capitalism, not marxism, u fukn idiot

>>9224278
you talk like a faggot and shits all retarded

>>9225001

Vigorous capitalism is way too spooked about the value of different types of labour for my vision fucko.

>>9224956
>being this new
>doing what I don't like
fuck off back to plebbit

>>9225017
I'm older than this being an offboard for /pol/ you dumb cunt

>>9223421
>Nazis hate fun
they have fun once

>>9224956
that's what most of the internet is at this point

>>9225016
Vigorous Capitalism is a giant fucking meme, Warren Buffet is as brutal as any Randian Republican Capitalist, the fucking wrote his daughter out of his will because she did a 30 second interview, the guy has bankrupted businesses solely for the purpose of shorting their stock and earns millions from foreclosing and collecting debts from poor and working class communities.

>>9225067

But he has the capital for bogus public relations campaigns about how he gives away most of his wealth to charities, charities which primarily benefit their professional apparatus, rather than their purported mission target.

How do you beat ideology, mang?

>>9225085
He owes more favours to various Politicians than any other businessman in the country, he'll become another Kozlowski when Africa starts kicking him out.

>>9225067
There's something perverse, disturbing even, about the way Buffet brags about not owning a car and still living in a little house in Bumfuck, Nebraska after all those years. You'd expect a human to put those billions to a good use.

>>9225126
Bumfuck, Nebraska must rock when you are rich though.

>>9223455
I'd suggest actually researching Jungers work before actually claiming he wasn't a a Nationalist. He made a point of putting the Anarch as the opposite of Anarchism

>>9225126
Buffet lies, A LOT, he claims tons of bullshit like how he was he was earning $15k/yr at 14 by chewing gum and $80k/yr at 15 by selling news papers, where he actually got the money? from his father who was already a successful businessman and senator.

>>9224162
Genuine fear over a Western backed Ukraine pushing it out of its only warm water port in Sevastapol?

>>9224516
No shit. Nobody on the left will acquiesce to Islam either. Despite what american conservatives think, Muslims and Islam in general is weak and dithering here. As long as it plays that way, liberals will feel a duty to "protect" it. (even though arabs vote republican, dutifully)

If it ever gained any real power or tips its hand as the traditionalist regression it is the left will be all too ready to drop the concern.

Don't forget, Hoxha (born Muslim) destroyed Islam in Albania. There is no greater ideological enemy of right-islamism than the ultra-left.

>>9225209
Hoxha was the greatest propagator of Political Albanian Islam in the history of the state considering he effectively swamped Kosovo with what he considered useful vermin

>>9224234
>>9224234
You don't need to know what post-modernism is, to employ it. Stop shitting up the thread with your modernist leftist, it's sad.

>>9223788
>get told academics are powerless
>"nuh uh, academics produce more academics!"

>>9224177
that map is beyond retarded

>>9223476
Hahahahaha, hilarious post my friend!

>>9225421
You got a counterargument?

>>9223917
>Again, this conspiratorial, "trickles down to the masses". NO SHIT, teaching knowledge spreads knowledge. It's as if education is some dark act!
Flippant disregard for the impact your actions have on the world and the minds within it.

>>9223721
so much for the tolerant left

>>9225457
If you want a tolerant society, you shouldn't tolerate those who are intolerant.

>>9223680
He never repented. He said, in private conversation, that it was a foolish mistake. He clearly believed in some metaphysico-poetic anti-techno-nihilism aspects that lay at the (supposed) core of the beginning of the nazi movement (1933-34).
Let's remember Levinas' old quote: "One can forgive many Germans, but there are some Germans it is difficult to forgive. It is difficult to forgive Heidegger."

>>9223321

Nick Land just shared this article on twitter

despite OP's boring antileft conspiratorial nonsense, isn't the article in the OP and exciting development? The reversal of political geists completely, leaving the right hanging in the breeze with the dregs of postmodernism? Not really speaking as a leftist, the right seizing postmodernism to smash the old order, the meme president, everything that's happening has been fucking amazing.

I really hope the world doesn't smash thought and enter into a new dark age anytime soon, cause watching the political dynamics of the last five years unfold for the next twenty or so is going to be grand. Hopefully the left can leave behind all the baggage it's got on the continent.

>>9225634
>watching the political dynamics of the last five years unfold for the next twenty or so is going to be grand.
Let me guess, you're 20 and you've only been a semi-conscious human being for the past 5 years?

Trust me, it gets a bit repetitive after 25 years.

>>9225653
nah I'm 31 but constantly stoned

that said the last 16 or so years have been interesting

>>9225321
academics influence the ideology of those in positions of power in government, bureaucracy, and the media. stop with this motte and bailey shit

>>9225665
It's not like the conservative bench went to different schools from their liberal peers

they're all PPE grads from oxbrige or ivys

Conservatives come from different sectors of society, but they're not less powerful by any means.

Academics remain leftwing as they age disproportionately commonly versus their peers, probably because tenure is one of the most socialist institutions there is. The complete elimination of competition, those that make it there do so when young and liberal, and never need to adjust their views.

>>9225473
...so can we ban the Muslims now?

>that glorious feel when you come up against the GREAT WALL OF NAZI, the impassable boundary of contemporary philosophy where even the most brilliant and educated minds collapse in a heap and revert to childlike, infantile shrieking
>that feel when you pass through the boundary unscathed, because you are not a bourgeois leftist vagina with 40 years of intelligentsia correctthink programming
>that feel when you are able to enjoy the subtleties and continuities of authors whose grandiose theories speak of modernity, the individual, and the state, without tripping over the word 'JEW' like a landmine, and blasting yourself into unphilosophical political correctness
>that feel when the garden of philosophically hating jews is the last great, uncultivated expanse remaining to modern scholarship
>that feel when its wonders are untrod by the plebeian feet of leftist master's theses and meta-meta-meta-analysis
>that feel when you are esoteric, enlightened by your own antisemitism

>>9225683
if we could someone make an arrangement where we gas frogposters and neonazis I'd be happy to trade for the muslims entering the US

>>9225696
>gas

>>9225699
whats wrong with gassing nazis

>>9225692
KeK

>>9225707
they have the most correct political ideology

>>9225713
edgy

In all seriousness, are you an incel?

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>>9225726
>everyone who has a different opinion than me w/r/t politics must be some defective neckbeard

kys

>>9225733
>posting a picture I found on imgur will prove i'm not a neckbeard

kys

>>9225726

non-white here. stop your pathetic hole tactics and actually put forward an argument instead of just reverting to abstract social shaming. it just shows that you secretly value social approval over reason.

that is how pathetic hole tactics are. i'd literally side with the nazi over the faggots who use them.

i'm really enjoying the asspain of milquetoast libs and the left, i have to say

someone needs to write a memoir of what it was like to be the only non-pozzed non-faggot non-obamavoter on somethingawful for twenty straight years of leftist thought control. just nonstop having to tolerate the lynch mob of internet tranny communists. 35 year old cat lady mods highfiving one another and giving out FIERCE! ban messages, every time someone dared to say they voted republican

it's seriously been like twenty years of millennial twats being completely dominant in all public discourse, and either having to hide your crazy political beliefs (like "hmm.. maybe lopping off your penis because the internet told you to.. is weird?"), or having to tolerate that thing where the status quo liberal horde gives you an inch of space to make your case, just so they can mob you before you're done speaking, downvote you, ban you sassily, and then circlejerk over it

academia is even worse. the amount of cock you have to suck even now in grad school in the humanities. only just now is it finally swinging the other way, with a few tenured or untouchable people daring to not give a fuck and be honest about their views

this whole zeitgeist flipflop is just really cathartic after all that, and especially after i assumed it was simply how things were going to be forever

it's a really satisfying slow burn too, you get to watch all the lefties sloooowly freak out that people are allowed to say words they don't like, their rich brat self-congratulatory daycare worldview imploding just a little bit more each day.

i'm especially enjoying how the mainstream is currently drifting away from the hardest of the hardcore tumblr psychos. watching those ones melt down is great. they're like the canaries in the coalmine or something. the left-moderate ones are next, and they can already smell fear.

articles like this are the other great thing. ivory tower faggots who buy into their own prestige status as pomo post-enlighteners, the moral vanguard and all that, freaking out because no one is listening to them anymore. all this impotent, limp-wristed "J'ACCUSE!!" style rage about right-wingers who clearly, disproportionately don't give a fuck about any j'accuses leveled at them.

>UHHH, UHH! UHH! HE'S READING.. EVOLA! I CAN PROVE IN TEN DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THAT'S ANTISEMITIC! GUYS! GUYS WHY ISN'T SAYING "RACIST" ENOUGH TO GET THIS MAN LYNCHED! WHY IS NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION TO ME! I'M THE IVORY TOWER INTELLECTUAL HERE! DID ZIZEK JUST SAY...... IMMIGRATION ISN'T GOOD?!?!??!?!? WHAT'S HAPPENING

>>9225756
>i'd literally side with the nazi over the faggots who use them

so you're retarded?

>hole tactics

stop making up words

i don't really feel like there's anything productive to talk about with someone that says "(nazis) have the most correct political ideology"

They're either joking or beyond the point where we could have a rational conversation.

Obviously making fun of him does nothing, I just like doing it.

>>9225757
so many spooks i couldnt get past the second line

>>9225757
wow with a shitpost that long, maybe it can be you desu

>>9225763
that's how i feel when i visit the capital city of your country

>>9225765
let's make up a codeword right now, and when i come to power some day, every time i have someone gassed i'll have the codeword whispered to them just before it happens. that way when you are gassed you can know it was me.

>>9225761

>so you're retarded?

why? because i see a man acting like a woman and social shaming instead of putting forward lines of rationale?

fuck off you low test loser. i would literally side with a rational nazi over your goofy nu-male ass. at least they try to maintain some adherence to rationale in discourse and don't endlessly vacillate between appeals to emotion and social approval all the time like you womanly types do.

>>9225770
yeah, what should it be?

>>9225772
go to debate club if you wanna have "rational discourse" this is 4chan, papa wanna shitpost after a long day a-thinkin'

>>9225772
ps i dont give a fuck if you're not white, I'm not the spooked liberal you think I am, I don't respect you because your ideology is trash

>>9225779

>papa wanna shitpost after a long day a-thinkin'

lmao did you seriously just write that. the more you post the more it becomes obvious that you are lamer than he is.

>>9225785
> you are lamer than he is.

STOP HOLE TACTICING, I DONT NEED YOUR SOCIAL APPROVAL, CHAD

>fifteen fyad rejects passive aggressively slapfighting

the most exciting thread.. i've ever seen!

>>9225789
should the codeword be fyad?

>>9225787

>showing me this clearly that i hit a nerve with that hole line

okay.

>>9225791
no it has to be something funny

>>9225792
insofar as it made me mad some assbrain made up a worse word for 'ad-hominem'

>>9225792
i thought this too. all jokes aside, >>9225787 clearly is irl upset about internet misogyny but tries to bury it under layers of affected irony.

i see you seriousposting, >>9225787. maybe you've gotten too old for this?

say "nigger" right now (without the quotation marks) to prove you can still hang

>>9225805
desu

>>9225815
Gotta be either this or shadilay.

>>9225813
As if the use/mention distinction applies to The Most Abhorrent Of All Blasphemies.

>>9223321
>but now the Establishment is entirely progressive


im laffin

>>9225757
I had a good chortle with this one.

>>9225849
Have you even read Moldbug?

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>>9225849
>The establishment is not progressive
then how do you explain shit like THIS?!?

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>>9225779
>when you call yourself papa on the internet

>>9225813
lol i like this game nigger

I fucking browse /pol/ all day, I'm not offended

you seem cool, I wish we could be friends. My far left position ultimately derives from a sort of magical thinking along the lines of "why can't we all be friends"

>>9225869
white techbro isn't qualified to speak on sociopolitical power structures, so no.

>>9225880
Straight out of your professor's mouth.

>>9225880
>white

>>9225986
Haha, immediately.

Holy shit this thread went to complete shit with the last twenty posts or so. I go to dinner for thirty minutes and stop steering the discussion and this is what I get, damn.

>>9226096
Oy vey, look at the atricities that happen when I stop steering the discussion.

>>9226103
you spelled atrocities wrong

>>9226103
I was just joking, I can just ignore the inane internet slapfight.

>>9226113
Don't you ever reply to the people that give me (You)s without directly contributing to the thread.

>>9223321
Enlightenment is over; its been over for decade, I'd say before even WWII. The authors you mentioned were just beating a dead horse.

We have almost reach peak emotivism, which will probably come about in another 10 years. Unfortunately I don't see any coherent philosophy replacing it.

>>9224190
Richard Rorty and Alasdair MacIntyre have shown alternatives are available. The issue is that communitarianism is so pessimistic as a group that it probably will never take off.

There is no reason to think that philosophy will go in the direction that is most rational or even useful. We very well might return to positivism and pretend all of its critiques didn't happen.

>>9226203
>communitarianism is so pessimistic
It is? I was not aware of this, could you explain? I don't know much about communitarians, except for a few essays by Michael Walzer and Amitai Etzioni, and that, in the US at least, are generally thought of as conservative.

>We very well might return to positivism and pretend all of its critiques didn't happen
Of all the philosophies to return, positivism seems the least likely, given that the critiques of it are fairly recent and very damaging (not to mention politically appealing). Seems more likely that we'll return to something that has been written off for so long as obsolete or so "obviously wrong, not even worth discussion" that people won't make effective arguments against it to the general populace because it hasn't been up for debate in such a long time.

>>9226266
>It is? I was not aware of this, could you explain?

There isn't really much I could explain sufficiently, you are better off googling or reading books by them.

>Of all the philosophies to return, positivism seems the least likely

I suggested that because the article seems to be going in that direction but I also believe independently that a sort of radical-left wing positivism could be applied in the political arena. I say this because I've read an increasing number of journal articles about studies and experiments on tranny development, women/men genetic stability, intelligence of mixed-race kids, etc. all giving evidence of a fertile ground. Imagine Butler arguing that transgender is not only fine but desirable, not because of any silly "social self-identity" shit but because they science clearly says they are smarter/healthier/whatever.

>>9226331
>Imagine Butler arguing that transgender is not only fine but desirable, not because of any silly "social self-identity" shit but because they science clearly says they are smarter/healthier/whatever.

I don't think scientific positivism can be embraced so naively anymore. For starters, the spectre of eugenics hangs over it all, so promoting certain kinds of human breeding seems difficult, if not illegal in some places.

Also, the ambiguity of what is "best" for the environment. You get all these environmental anti-human nihilists, who make pretty decent arguments for shorter lives and fewer humans.

Scientific Positivism will never answer fundamental ethical/moral dilemmas like environmentalism, or justice, or human rights.

But i get what your saying. I personally think race mixing is the only way forward. There will be many more wars, but with enough mobility we could achieve a singular human culture, while maintaining individualism... hopefully.

>>9226386
The only way to avert a possible wave of future wars would be the presence of good dispute resolution mechanisms between nations, something like a more local and muscular UN. It's my opinion that the failure of the European Union was the lack of such pre-agreed resolution mechanisms to resolve policy deadlocks, the EU idealists and technocrats thought that any crisis could be superated through sheer enthusiasm, and look where we are now.

>>9225789
That forum is dead as a doornail.

>>9226412
Since it takes about ten dollars to register on SA, that means that the site's main source of revenue is banning people. So sometimes you come across old threads that look more likes mass graves since everyone has a ban notice on their profiles.

>>9226429
IT's depressing as there were a number of people I really liked, but now they're nowhere to be found (not even on Twitter)

>>9226436
The only people still using SA are the kinds of people who use /o/ on 4chan, hobbyists who need it for a specific reason.

Other than that it's only the really sad fucking people whose lives never really started, and they assumed their ironic meme persona was their real life, and the next logical step for them in Internet meme existence was to weird tweet until time itself comes to an end.

>>9226442
>Other than that it's only the really sad fucking people whose lives never really started, and they assumed their ironic meme persona was their real life, and the next logical step for them in Internet meme existence was to weird tweet until time itself comes to an end.
That reminds me of something:
http://www.internetisshit.org/print.html

>>9223321
This is fucking hilarious. This is what happens when your entire political/social/religious philosophy is based purely on critique and destruction. Your enemies will eventually use it against you.

>>9226442
If anyone can tell me what happened to Ingwit or if he's writing a book or something then I can die satisfied.

I'm fucking stupid, what exactly is the postmodern philosophy of the left? I hear about it a lot, but it's almost always some kind of insult rather than a neutral description.

>>9223869
>this is what Vox Day actually believes

>>9224888

Demora que só a porra conseguir postar por aqui, não tenho culpa se o /lit/ é tão autista que não consegue discutir um tema desses

>>9223614
>believes the patriarchy, white supremacy, the bourgeois, etc. are out to get him
>accuses others of conspiratorial thinking

k

>>9224956
luckily there are dozens of threads in which you can "talk about books" here on /lit/. if not, you can always start one

now, if that's what you want to do that's cool, but why are you posting a rude, sweeping reply in a thread that obviously doesn't align with your interests?

>>9224348
>that's not true though, that's patently false
See:

>>9225031
>they have fun once
And they didn't like it.

>>9225872
Not a gag. It's a something for dentistry, when you're 100% sure that the mouth must be kept open.

>>9225193
>Russian navy
Something totally unnatural. They can have their rails.
>tfw someday will Köningsberg be an independent republic