Which languages is the best for poetry soundwise in your opinion?

>>9136221
*are

>>9136221
>German seems to be one of the worst for it.

Fight me, Neger.

>>9136221
Kleine Aster

Ein ersoffener Bierfahrer wurde auf den Tisch gestemmt.
Irgendeiner hatte ihm eine dunkelhellila Aster
zwischen die Zähne geklemmt.
Als ich von der Brust aus
unter der Haut
mit einem langen Messer
Zunge und Gaumen herausschnitt,
muß ich sie angestoßen haben, denn sie glitt
in das nebenliegende Gehirn.
Ich packte sie ihm in die Brusthöhle
zwischen die Holzwolle,
als man zunähte.
Trinke dich satt in deiner Vase!
Ruhe sanft,
kleine Aster!

OP btfo

>>9136221
>Which poster is the biggest idiot in your opinion?
>OP seems to be the worst of them.

If you can't substantiate your opinion it's just shit.

I think the reason that Anglos consider German an ugly language has its roots in their inability to properly pronounce any German word. When it comes to English it's actually quite baffling that a language that is said to have about 3000 possible sounds ends up sounding so murky. It is truly a peasant's language, fit for swamps and moors. Heine was right about the English: They croak like frogs. Carefully enunciated German has a rich and clear sound, emerging to the heavens like the walls of a dome, it is, as HH puts it, eine Kanzelsprache, fit for cathedrals.

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Middle English.

>>9136241
>>9136329
I like the German language, I like how it looks written and how it sounds in most situation, but I listened to people reading poems in German and it just sounds awful.
>>9136350
How am I going to substantiate something 100% subjective?

>>9136359
>rich and clear sound
>R realized through uvular trill

>>9136221
>German seems to be one of the worst for it.
I think poetry is the only thing german is actually good for. Fuck you OP.

old occitan

Nahuatl

>>9136221
Italian, of course. French is a close second.

>>9136221
>>9136359
>Das Deutsche ist ein barbarischer Jargon, gerade noch geeignet, um mit seinen Pferden zu sprechen
Friedrich der Große

>>9136410
Yo. Zu schade das ich noch dazu eine grässliche amerikanischen Akzent habe. Töte mich einfach.

>>9136360
This. Also, Persian and Arabic sound great, but most of you plebs can't understand it.

>>9136422
>Schade, dass ich dazu noch einen grässlichen amerikanischen Akzent habe.

>>9136425
>Arabic sounds great
You have to go back.

ITT butthurt germans not accepting the truth
It's not a coincidence that when Krausse sings in german she sounds like a cat with bronchitis and that the most known band from your country is 3 mongols shouting JAWOHL every minute. Face the limitations of your language, it's not like it doesn't have strong points. Russian also sounds incredibly bad for poetry(ruined The Mirror for me) and Swedish in general. So I guess the non contrarian answers are the correct ones: french, english, spanish maybe japanese

>>9136428
Und ich kriege das mit die Grammatik nicht ganz hin. Zehn Jahre wohne ich schon hier, und ich habe mich selber gefickt indem ich die beschissene Artikel nicht gelernt habe. Mir ist das so peinlich.

>>9136437
Wenn's nur ein Weg diese heute zu lernen gäbe.

>>9136442
>ein Weg
Vielleicht solltest du auch Nachhilfe nehmen

>>9136436
>my first epic trolle

>>9136442
Also ob ich eine solche stupide Arbeit merken könnte. Ich kenne zu viel Deutsch das ich nicht nach fünf minuten zu tode gelangweilt wäre.

The "sch", ch everywhere and uvular r sounds make it sound like garbage. The grammar is so robotic too.

>>9136454
>Ich kenne zu viel Deutsch
Offensichtlich. Kek.

>>9136462
Man fick dich

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German is my favourite language. Shame it will be replaced with a bastardised semi-Arabic language.

>>9136470
I don't like Islam but the Arabic language isn't that ugly. Why are you crying for something the German people chose (the majority had to elect the ones who made the decision)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TATrYS_FW_A

>>9136462
Ich hab nicht gesagt das mein Deutsch perfekt ist, ich habe gesagt das ich zu viel kenne das ich nur die artikel ablese und sie dann merke. Ich brauche ein bisschen mehr stimulation als das.
Ich kann mich mit dir unterhalten, oder?

>>9136479
English isn't my first language, but Germans should realize that not all of them sound perfect when they speak English or other languages. For example, Most of the Germans that try to learn my language destroy the articles. They change everything.

It's not people's fault that their language's grammar is fucking retarded.

>>9136221
>German seems to be one of the worst for it.
Nur wenn du ein großer Plebejer bist.

>>9136493
>>9136410

>>9136470
>citing Breitbart

If you'd bother to check (but why would you? You read that american idiotic shit) you could check on how Germany classifies migration background:

>In the German case this approach harks back awkwardly to old notions of blood identity, argues Anne-Kathrin Will at the Otto-von-Guericke University in Magdeburg. To have a “migrant background”, it is enough for one parent to be born abroad. And the German system, unlike the Dutch, passes the status on to the children. Many Germans with just one foreign-born grandparent are classified as having a migrant background.

Source: http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21699473-all-ways-european-countries-classify-ethnicity-germanys-may-be-worst-name-date

With that classification classical immigrant countries like the US or Australia would have a majority 'migrant background'

>>9136501
Does this also include people with French, Dutch or Polish ancestry for instance?

>>9136501
One drop rule.

>>9136509
Old drop rule is illogical. Prove me wrong.

>>9136506
Yes, it doesn't matter which country.

The Breitbart screenshot implies this has to do with refugees coming, but these people aren't counted as Germans and don't count in these stats.

>>9136479
Für einen Sprachstudenten mit halbjähriger Praxis ist dein Deutsch gut. Für jemanden der schon ein Jahrzehnt im deutschsprachigen Gebiet wohnt - peinlich

>>9136446
Stop being butthurt hans you still have your enormous vocabulary and autistic grammar.

>>9136474
Arabic is the most beautiful language in the world don't @ me
https://youtu.be/alfJXT9m2gY

Ach i w rodzicielskim domu byłem złe dziecie
choć nie chciałem naprzykrzać się nikomu
a przecie
byłem ja między krewnymi i czeladzi gromadą
przeszkodą i zawadą
choć kochałem wszystkich w dzień i w nocy
nie byłem nikomu ku pociesze ni ku pomocy

>>9136520
Ja eben

Spanish.
It's a beautiful language and there's a lot of amazing poets both in Spain and every Hispanic country

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>>9136474
>Why are you crying for something the German people chose
If your beloved commits suicide after decades of bullying you couldn't stop...

At the very least, Jews are killing themselves as well. They should have started with that...

>>9136531
I'm neither Hans, nor butthurt. Your post is retarded and your opinions are shit.

>>9136520
es kommt davon das ich die deutsche sprache nicht gern lese. das einzige buch die ich bis jetzt richtig angenehm fand zu lesen war "Der Schatz Der Könige von Frankreich"

>>9136558
So you would prefer to be ruled than to have freedom? If there were no democracy you wouldn't even posting here.

>>9136576
schön für dich

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>>9136583
Democracy is not freedom. It's a "haha you chose your fate!" mockery. The only choice of freedom in a democracy is the choice to leave it.
Equality is a false idol, and it enslaves everyone. Socrates found out the hard way, and Plato formulated models for states which had freedom.

>>9136585
boah bist du kalt

>>9136583
>democracy does not have rulers

>>9136601
From all the system we know, it's the system that gives you the most freedom.

>>9136594
Don't cut yourself on that edge mate

>>9136562
Yeah you don't sound mad at all. Last post so you can calm down.

>>9136430
He's right. Take a look at some nasheeds, Arabic is wonderful and I'm glad they're improving the linguistic diversity in Europe.

>>9136378
>what is philosophy?
Gtfo.

Les petits homoncules roulent riant,
Pâles voluptes d'âmes et de gens,
Filant comme milles mauvais vents,
Niais puis niant, marchant crânement.

Défilent comme une vague armée en parade,
Arborant sourires et leur armes viperines,
Une rue comblée de silences et d'accolades,
Le fumoir consumé de l'innocence caudine.

Tout autour, jaillissent et jubilent, truculent,
Ces marées d'inexistences lasses et vides,
Pieds bots, unijambiste, contorsions livides,
Ornés sordides et crasse vivide, ils en trémulent...

De la sincérité interlope, en un horizon acharné,
Tirant or mort et argent désincarné, je me suis paré.
Ocres tours sybillines, silhouettes décharnées,
Un masque de terre amère, affrontant armées.

Le marcheur perpétuel de cents parcelles,
L'ultime paradigme, celui de l'irrigué oeil irrité,
Bathyscaphe des profondeurs humaines, sel,
Faisant fi, foutant fat, gardant pédance, iré.

Interstices dans l'âme d'un monde sans onde,
Les sinoques solliloques d'un amer solipciste,
Fendant l'air, volonté inavouée, prières bistres,
L'isthmique altérité de l'autre, vaine faconde.

A la main pâle crépitante, un talisman jubile,
Éphémère pilier évanescent et futilité nubile,
Crevant silence, sonant naissance il brille,
Fumées envolées en un ciel mordoré, me vrillent.

Les nycthémères courent et tonnent sous le pied léger,
Nos esprit résonnent et chantent les hauts lieux atteint,
Quatre bras et deux têtes, nous les foulons bien niais,
Les matins dont le crépuscule jamais ne s'eteint.

Le flot s'est calmé dans ce chaos subjugué,
Et son vent mauvais de mille petits gens,
Les murs ne sont plus de passé, ils sont blancs,
La lune couronnée vint alors me chuchoter, courroucée,

Qui donc chevauche si vite à travers la nuit et le vent?

日本語。

>>9136706
This can't be original, yet google doesn't give me anything

>>9136726

Why couldn't this be original ?

>>9136607
Lies. It's the least free model. In the case that I disagree with anyone. You see, if 99% of the people choose that taxing me 100% is valid, they will do it.

>>9136731
Because I like it

>>9136612
Do you have any actual thoughts regarding the matter or are you just in the denial phase? If you disagree with the majority, democracy is the worst possible model for society. Regarding your freedom.
Now, in the event that I were to own most media outlets, or the most influential one, I could choose their opinion for them. See: Trump, Obama...

>>9136746
It is actually, but it's kindda pedantic anyways.
Old work

>>9136367
>I like the German language
I don't. It's the language of Orcs.

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>>9136743
Hard to refute an argument so securely ground in reality.

>>9136754
Well, I rarely read critique threads, because what I've seen tends to disappoint me, this however has a certain charm to it. Then again French is my third language, so I'm not that sophisticated in my appreciation of poetry. However, I like what you wrote, and I hope you write more and find a form of expression that doesn't strike you as "pedantic".

>>9136778
Je ne savais même pas qu'il y avait des threads de critique, en français du moins. Généralement les gens tiquent sur les mots qu'ils ne comprenaient pas et le sous-entendent. Merci pour les encouragements.

Wanna read more ?

>>9136391
Based.

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>>9136802
Sure, maybe post a pastebin? I am merely a dilettante, though. I can't give you any advice on how to improve, just my appreciation.

>>9136820

http://pastebin.com/jtC6hSSw

>>9136221
Italian. If you consider Italian literature, the best works they have are mostly poetical, both in the long form and short form. Dante is greatest poet of all times and Italian poetry of the twentieth century is the GOAT imo

>>9136980
Recommend some 20th century italian poets you faggot.

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>>9136221

>Read thread
>90% of posts are butthurt Krauts and/or Krautophiles
>10% answer the question

They really are autists desu.

Anyway, the answer is English and/or French. The former probably wins because the corpus of English poetry is so big (and a lot of it good), but French has Rimbaud/etc, which is a definite case of quality over quantity.

>>9136985
Montale (the GOAT)
Ungaretti
Quasimodo
Saba
Pavese

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:20th-century_Italian_poets

>I can't pronounce or read German so it must be bad!

Come on OPhaggo, I can barely understand the German being written in the thread, but at least I can pronounce and: >>9136329 does not sound ugly. German is honestly an extremely attractive spoken language, it wouldn't be a popular language to learn if it weren't. Why is it assumed to be an aggressive language? Any language will sound aggressive if it's being yelled.
>>9136373
Not inherently, it's just some dialects that exaggerate it, or some people.

I'm borderline unable to do a nice-sounding uvular trill, but the near-silent one I use has never lead to confusion.

Germans proving their autism yet again.

>>9136752
>If you disagree with the majority, democracy is the worst possible model for society.
>it's a 14 year old tries political discussion episode

>>9136405
Give me an example of a pleasant-sounding Italian poem

>>9137055
>monolingual anglo gives advice on languages

German is a very crisp language and is excellent if you want to make precise points. German is also a really nice sounding language IMO.

French is a very fluid-sounding language. French sounds really good when sung.

English is a bit in-between French and German, it can be more so what the speaker wants for the moment. I think this is because of its vast roots.

So we can pretty much all agree that OP has literally no taste, and that German is in fact one of the most phonetically beautiful of the major literary languages. But I'd admit one caveat: prosodically, German is not exceptional. It lacks the strong iambic drive of English, though English is an otherwise phonetically inferior language.

>>9136360

This guy also knows what's up. Chaucer's English is about as aesthetic as it gets. It's a shame, though, that Old English was not prettier, as the prosodic qualities of strong-falling alliterative Old English poetry are lovely. I have never heard a reconstructed recitation of Old Norse poetry, but perhaps that would be prettier.

But let us not forget Latin (and also its direct descendant Italian, although I daresay that classically pronounced Latin is superior even to Italian). The Latin language was so inherently beautiful that its poets did not feel the need to obligate her to anything more than the arbitrary and almost imperceptible restraints of imported Greek meter. Not only the phonetics, but also the crystalline logic of that language, are superior to those of perhaps any living language, although ancient Greek and Sanskrit can give it a run for its money. Which is funny, because from everything I've been able to tell, Proto-Indo-European was a phonetically hideous language, somewhat like Irish with an overproliferation of phonemes. Yet if we knew the prosodic principles of those primordial poets, the direct descendants, according to Vico, of animistic shamans, perhaps we should stand in awe of the savage gifts of those proto-artists.

>>9137165

I speak English, French and Norwegian.

Your move, Hans.

>>9136221
>cellar door

English tends towards smaller, monosyllabic units of speech which allows it to convey a great deal of subtle information while simultaneously being economic with its word usage. What makes it so good for poetry also makes it the best language for irony, and useful for cynicism and sarcasm, though the latter two are perhaps bested by the yiddish voice.

>>9136373
only in some regions tbqh with you m80

>>9137055
Well, OP was being a faggot, so he has only himself to blame.

>>9136619
Fat juicy disgusting bait

Non sono un robot

>>9136221
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iEqx0Mmycg

>>9137698
I am German but why are our youtubers always beta faggots?

>>9136980
>Dante is the greatest poet...
Chi è Petrarca? Ludovico Ariosto?

>>9137155
Not him, but italian rhymes even when spoken. Still, i think it's a violent but respectful language, more suited for plays than poetry. German is perfect for scientific talk, but not so for poetry; english on the opposite is hideous for science, but perfect for verse

>>9137706
>Why are all youtubers massive beta faggots?

ftfy

>>9137706
Because European entertainers always have the style of beta faggot?

Vandalismo

Meu coração tem catedrais imensas,
Templos de priscas e longínquas datas,
Onde um nume de amor, em serenatas,
Canta a aleluia virginal das crenças.

Na ogiva fúlgida e nas colunatas
Vertem lustrais irradiações intensas
Cintilações de lâmpadas suspensas
E as ametistas e os florões e as pratas.

Como os velhos Templários medievais
Entrei um dia nessas catedrais
E nesses templos claros e risonhos...

E erguendo os gládios e brandindo as hastas,
No desespero dos iconoclastas
Quebrei a imagem dos meus próprios sonhos!

>>9137155
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUzsNkKTXMU
The Infinite, by Leopardi (1819)
>Always dear to me was this hermit’s hill,
>And this hedge that always separates me
>From looking at the distant horizon, but
>Seated here and lost in an endless meditation
>Which discovers a vaster space within,
>Boundless silence and deep inner quiet,
>My heart is nearly overcome. And like the wind
>Murmuring among the leaves to which I compare
>Its beating, this infinite silence, this inner voice
>So with my mind I encompass an eternity,
>And the seasons die, and the present lives
>In that sound. And in the middle of all that
>Immensity, my thought drowns itself:
>Sweet to me, to be shipwrecked in this sea.

Italian when well spoken has nothing to do with what people think actual italian accent is. The stereotypical italian accent you're used to is actually a result of Southern dialects.

>>9137804
Sh sh sh sh sh sh. Portuguese is astonishingly ugly for a Romance language.

>>9137813

Not the Brazilian one. But the Portuguese one is quite ugly indeed.

>>9137813
Some Brazilian accents don't use that 'sh' sound.

A Brazilian that pronounce s like s reciting that poem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4qY2R7U-IM

>>9136373
>uvular trill
most varieties, including standard German, use a uvular fricative instead. A fairly similar sound is used for word-medial g in European Spanish.
Also, uvular fricative, uvular trill and alveolar trill are all accepted as allophones of the same phoneme in German...

>>9136461
I don't think German has more sch than English has sh, and it's the exact same sound.
Also, try Russian then

>>9136520
Und das traurige ist, dass er sich zum Vergleich mit unseren Türken der dritten Generation hervorragend ausdrücken kann.

>>9137698
>8 beautiful German poems
>7 by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and one by somebody that you've probably only heard of if you are from a German-speaking country
What

>>9136710
Japanese has to be one of the hardest languages to be a good poet in.

>>9138060
Goethe is so good that he renders the other poets irrelevant.

>>9138070
I think those languages with clicks must be even harder.

>>9138070
It's pure.

>>9138020
Absolute majority nowadays uses uvular variants which sound harsh, alveolar trills and taps are only used in the South and in some parts of Saxony. But thanks for reciting wiki on my native language.

Who gets to chose the parameters that constitute a "harsh" language anyway. Anglos were just lucky that somebody like Hitler wasn't English/American.

Why is everyone not answering the fucking question? Everyone is butthurt about German. wtf?

It's just a subjective opinion, you cucks.

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Finnish, of course.

>>9137774
If you really think English is perfect for verse you're cringe mad, bro

English is so poor and shallow-sounding that it could only produce good works in genres such as postmodernism, which draws its material from common life and everyday experiences, minimalism (Hemingway for example) or brutalism (Burroughs, Miller, Palahniuk etc). But please NO POETRY, N O P O E T R Y
(not that there aren't good English or American poets, of course, but the sound is obnoxious)

>>9137810
>(the whole post)
this

>>9137155
Here you go faggot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OsUnxY5mgw

Perfection.

>>9138514

The good thing with English is that, since most words are monossylable, the verse-metric can be filled with a lot of information.

A sonnet in English contains much more material than a sonnet in Italian, Portuguese and Spanish, for example. I say that because all of those literary traditions use the 10-sylable line as a rule.

The 12 sylable line is not very used on those 3 romance languages, yet it is omething that needs to become popular.

Is interesting to see, when one reads Shakespeae, just how much informtion he puts into a single line of verse.

The monossylables are one of the great advantages of English.

>>9137698
I don't think German is bad

But damn, guys, just listen to that and then move on to:
>>9137810
>>9138529
... fuck, how can other languages even compete?

>>9138529
I can't help but think this is a poem about meat sauce and parmesan.

>>9138540
More words does not mean more information. Where English needs an extra preposition and an auxiliary verb, other languages use complex inflected forms. It does tend to have sightly higher information rate overall, but it's not nearly as big a difference as you make it out to be when compare to Romance languages.

>>9138540
>A sonnet in English contains much more material than a sonnet in Italian, Portuguese and Spanish
>The monossylables are one of the great advantages of English.
Here is where you're wrong. Poetry is not about how much information you stuff into the page, but sound. It's about sound. The monossylables are exactly why English sounds awful. Musicality and rhythm are given by the ternary structure. Just look at Virgil and, even more, at Homer: their poems are perfect because hexameters use the ternary rhythm. In the twentieth century Ginsberg was desperately trying to use that pattern but with little result. Instead, Spanish Portuguese and in particular Italian are great languages for verse because they actually can reproduce the sound of ancient Greek poetry.

Remember that poetry is the kingdom of synthesis and essentiality. This poem >>9138529 uses only short lines (like 4 or 5 syllables each one) and it's perfect. No matter how much stuff you put into a poem. It really has no meaning.

>>9138568
Because you're stuffed with stereotypes and you don't know anything about Italy except its food.
Here is the translation:
https://thedancingrest.com/2015/03/31/poem-of-the-day-la-pioggia-nel-pineto-the-rain-in-the-pine-wood-by-gabriele-dannunzio/

>>9138593

Do you think that 12 syllable line works for Spanish, Portuguese and Italian poetry?

Most poets use the 10 syllable line, yet if one looks the Greek and Latin poetry they have longer verses. The hexameters are quite long.

I dont understand why some people think that 12-syllable verses are too long.

Arabic

>>9138593
>English sounds awful
Wrong.

Fuck of Hellenophile.

>>9139072
>impotent monolingual rage

>>9138529
Yes poetry tends to sound good with le sentimental piano and a trained speaker.

>>9139074
I'm not monolingual, but most likely you are.

>>9139072
>Hellenophile
jesus christ no just not that please kill me if you ever see me turn into that

>>9139083
>greece is le epic all this romance language poetry is le epic because it IMITATES LE EPIC GREEK POETRY (and le epic roman poetry but they're le hellenophiles too)

>>9136583
>If there were no democracy you wouldn't even posting here
Proof? As far as I know, using guillotine on good men did nothing regarding that.

>>9136771
Free dog is like a wolf, not like a pet. You like being a pet, I get it, but don't call it freedom.

>>9136583
We don't have freedom now, though.

>>9139081
>extended monolingual rage with denial

>>9139127
I'm not monolingual, though.

>>9139133
Okay, sweetie, whatever you say.

>>9139136
>sweetie
lmao how monolingual can one get

>>9139136
>sweetie
Being able to understand what black guys are saying when they ram you doesn't make you bi- or polylingual.

>>9139141
>>9139148
>tfw subhuman monolingual anglos get triggered this much by their own mental deficiency

>>9139154
>sub
>not unter
>"monolingual"
>uses this language
>to tell people this language is bad

>>9139172
Alas, I'm forced to use this disgusting language by your inability to comprehend superior ones. There's simply no other way to bring the truth to you, my linguistically impaired friends.

>>9139191
alas indeed kinde freond

obviously you have only tortured yourself as little as you musted to learn the bare minimums of our language in order to tell us how bad it is

humor us, what Other languages should we be speaking instead?

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>>9139257
Idubbbz european accent

>>9139257
Tamil, Nahuatl and Udmurt would be a good start. Once you master at least two of those we can move on to Dogrib, Tongwe and Sikaiana. Finally, after your puny fragile brains are numbed by big black African languages, we can proceed to Swedish, Portuguese and Scottish Gaelic.

>>9139118
So many assumptions, so little wit.

>>9138328
Which is why I said that "most varieties, including standard German, use a uvular fricative". A uvular trill is usually used word initially, and maybe is the standard realisation of /r/ in some dialects.
And thanks for lecturing me on my own native language. Source also isn't wiki but who cares.