AHHHHH WHAT TRANSLATION OF THE ILIAD DO I GET I JUST WANNA READ

Start with the greek language

If you want to read it as poetry, Lattimore. Fagles is also okay but takes less note of how the Greek poem is written.

If you want to just read it as a story, Butler.

>>9122987
First time I read it was in a prose adapted version, and I think it just made the thing go mutch smoother when I picked up the real thing.

>>9122996
this. Lattimore is great, Fagles (at least in Aeneid) changes the lineation

Just download all the versions you can find and compare.

Lattimore really is best though, Harold Bloom's choice.

Fitzgerald is generally considered the best translation on /lit/, I think, based on that "Homer translations comparison" site you can find by Googling.

It isn't as literally accurate as some others, but Fitzgerald is the most accomplished modern poet to have translated it, and the argument is that, in making it a serious and high quality poem in its own right, Fitzgerald has actually rendered the overall experience of the originals better than if he had google-translated every word exactly.

So if you want poetic virtuosity, and you understand translation is an issue of translating meaning holistically and not one-to-one, Fitzgerald is probably best. Lattimore and Fagles are probably the most common, currently, at least among undergrad readings. Other ones to consider might be Pope (almost certainly you don't want to read Pope, he's great but his style is very dry to moderns and he takes just as many liberties as Fitzgerald), or Chapman or whatever. Just google the site with all the comparisons and you can get a decent idea.

>>9122996
WTF? If you want to read it as poetry chose Fitzgerald, OP.

There is no point to Fitzgerald unless you want Homer as a modern English poet: Homer as poetry.

But why would you want him as a modern English poet? If you want good poetry in English, you'd be better forgetting about Homer altogether and instead reading Milton and Shakespeare (and the golden-age, generall). Even to stay with the Homeric stories, Pope and Chapman are using a more poetic language than the modern translators are (most of which are barely poets, in the classic sense).

So if we don't want poetry what do we want? We want to be immersed in the Greek culture/values that can be found in Homer, this is best conveyed through a more literal translation like Lattimore, where he isn't scared to use the exact metaphors, adjectives, figures of speech, even if they (supposedly) 'sound awkward'. We want to know the phrasings and plot-specifics that would have been known to the ancients.

Fitzgerald-fags are even beaten on their own ground: Harold Bloom, greatest aesthete of our time, recommends Lattimore for the Iliad. And he even enjoys modern English poetry!

>>9123087
>Fitzgerald
>not Pope
what on earth are you doing you cuntrag

>>9122987
>Pleb Tier
Fagles

>High Tier
Fitzgerald, Lattimore

>Patrician Tier
Pope, Chapman

>Autism Tier
Homeric Greek

>>9123594
>reading poetry in it's original language is autistic
What did he mean by this

When did Fitzgerald even become relevant in these threads? At least nobody's mentioned Lombardo.

>>9123599
>learning a difficult dead language just to read one of the most well studied literary works of all time in original
This is autism.

>>9123599
Exactly what he meant by it

>>9123594
>Classicist tier
Homeric Greek
>Aesthetics tier
Film adaptations
>Poetry tier
Lattimore
>Degenerate tier
the other English 'translations'.

>>9123603
to be fair, it makes the ionic and doric you'd have to learn to not just be an attic (or the even slimmer plutarch style) basic koine pleb. there's never been an autistic imitator of herodotus' style for instance.
>daily reminder pharr is your friend

>>9122987
i never understood this since i have never actually read any second version of these books
but how do they differ in the translation?
they hardly translated it so that the meaning was fucked?

>>9123614
*makes [it] easier
sorry it's hard writing with spaces

>>9123608
>Film adaptations
And here I am assuming there's never been a successful videogame implementation. Now that would be the top of aesthetics tier.

>>9123625
look up lombardo's version of the cyclops if you want that final push to kill the nearest joss whedon fan for how they talk

>>9123601
Why wouldn't Fitzgerald become popular? What's your beef?

>>9123625
Fagles:
>"cramp my style"
>"knows the rope"

>>9123640
post 'em

>>9123601
Isn't Fitzgerald basically a better Fagles?

>>9123608
how could one anon ever be so right

>>9123758
>how dare he use modern language instead of autistically adding heaps of filler just to preserve the hexameter

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>tfw you spend enough time here that you could recommend translations and their relative merits despite never reading the Illiad

>>9123785
>"cramp my style"
>"knows the rope"
>>modern language
Anon, the thing about this art is that it is all about the pleasure of poetry, entertainment. If you are so senile that you use anachronistic and cringe-inducing phrases (in an attempt to be 'down with the kids') instead of the more stoic and tasteful (this is the safer option, and really the only option if you're attempting poetry since it shouldn't become dated easily; if you actually want to be cutting edge 'down with the kids', do a slam/rap adaption kek) ones, you ruin your art. You introduce distracting, immersion-breaking ugliness into the verse.

And Lattimore doesn't have filler btw, the whole problem with Greek-English is in fact the opposite: we have to squeeze the naturally-longer lines of Greek into the more short-of-breath English. I'd rather have a good impression of the Greek product than a poetry equivalent (in an age where poetry has declined, edged out by more technologically-advanced artforms).

>>9123768
You are too kind.

Lombardo, enjoyment $100% guaranteed

>>9123758
>"cramp my style"
>"knows the rope"
Ahahah is this true?

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Patrician: Homeric Greek
Haute Bourgeois: Rodney Merrill
Petit Bourgeois: Lattimore
Plebeian: Fagles
Lumpen: lol idk translation is impossible, read a comic book or just watch Troy

>>9123853
>you ruin your art
Yes, that's why 10 minutes of browsing reviews reveals that the majority is much more impressed by Fagles while admitting that Lattimore is better technically.
>inb4 tru patrishons don't care about pleb tastes

>>9122987
theres a recent translation by Merril where he tries to remain as literate as possible but also preserves the meter of Homer. i haven't checked it out yet but if any anon knows about it then please do tell

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>>9123758
man, there's too many, just get a copy and see how long before you ragequit

>>9123056
>Fitzgerald is generally considered the best translation on /lit/,

I thought it was Pope's

You die too, friend. Don’t take it hard.
Patroclus died, and he was far better than you.
Take a look at me. Do you see how huge I am,
How beautiful? I have a noble father,
My mother was a goddess, but I too
Am in death’s shadow. There will come a time,
Some dawn or evening or noon in this war,
When someone will take my life from me
With a spear thrust or an arrow from a string.

>>9123861
People literally read Fagles and think this is good:

>Thersites was always abusing both chiefs, but now
>he went for majestic Agamemnon, hollering out,
>taunting the king with strings of cutting insults.
>The Achaeans were furious with him, deeply offended.
>But he kept shouting at Agamemnon, spewing his abuse:
>"Yo dawg, why you be illin' and shit, why, jive sucka?
>What y'all niggas be thinkin' 'bout now? Your crib packed
>with a fuckton of bling, plenty of bitches too,
>they be fillin' up the place. The hottest fucking hoes
>you always get first, whenever we punk a nigga.
>Or still more ice you're wanting? You gonna buy the DVD box set
>of Seinfeld with that shit or something nigga?
>Or fi'in ta make me go Walmart and buy it for your ass?
>I'm a tweet that yousa bitch, y'all ass only got 500 Instagram followers,
>yall don't know shit bout leading no fucken army senpai.

This is taught in UNIVERSITY COURSES.

>>9123928
ohshit, that's near the
>But I'll say this too, and you can think it over: Don't kill me
this is now a Lombardo thread

>>9123882
I posted this

>>9123879
I've read it, it is very good. You can read his entire Odyssey here for free: https://www.press.umich.edu/17212/odyssey/?s=look_inside

>>9123861
>Nestor sat down again. He'd shown his son the ropes, the last word in the master horseman's skills.
I couldn't find the 'style-cramping' instance.

>>9123882
The impression I get of Lattimore v.s. Merrill is that the former is a more holistic translation, whereas Merrill sacrifices a lot of content to get that perfect meter, he's only better for rhythm.

>>9123879
I'd like to see that passage (because it sounds especially good) with Lattimore's beside it, whenever I compared them myself I preferred Lattimore for that holistic quality.

>>9123879
Your tiers are ordered by how useful they are to classicism. There's more to life than that: >>9123608 >>9123633

>>9123881
You should read my post here >>9123577 replacing any instance of 'Fitzgerald' with 'Fagles'. Basically, I'm willing to accept your appeal to reviewers as to the poetic quality. In that post I explain why the poetic quality is irrelevant (and not only that, I question your poetic preference since Harold Bloom is probably a better authority than those reviewers).

>>9123908
>Sailing the seas, HUH?
Tears of laughter, thanks.

>>9123927
Depends on what your criteria/aesthetics is for poetry. Pope is generally considered best because he is able to obey the constraints of rhyming couplets, as well as being the greatest English poet who bothered to translate it (as in, his original works are explicitly canonical).

>>9123928
>>9123946
Neither of those top the 'Sailing the seas, huh?' but ': Don't kill me' comes close.

>>9123942
Took me awhile before I broke down, damn. My excuse is that the 'hollering out' part is actually real.

>>9123942
>Or still more ice you're wanting? You gonna buy the DVD box set
>of Seinfeld with that shit or something nigga?
I chuckled

>>9122987
Bump

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Lombardo's pretty much what you'd get if 4chan tried to translate the Odyssey I think.
I keep waiting for the next line in this to be
>why doesn't my mom visit?

>>9122987
Fagles

Hammond

CHRISTOPHER LOGUE (NOT A TRANSLATION, BUT STILL!) AND GEORGE CHAPMAN.

>>9126213
>>9123942
>>9123908
>>9124064
What would Nietzsche think of the Lombardo and Fagles translations?