>lives in a rapidly developing digital age >starts with

>>9121606
I just sit in my room and jack off

Coding is unsatisfying because there is no virtuous code, it's just a lot of hackjob pseudo-engineering by millions of half-trained code monkeys who have no idea what they're doing. When you realize that the code infrastructure underlying our 'information society' is actually written by fat retards who got B-'s in their college classes, and that none of their code is mutually readable because every single thing they do is an ad hoc hackjob, it's scary.

File: Symeon_the_Stylite.jpg (13KB, 180x246px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 180x246px

the civilization already left me behind

>>9121606
Your shitty "Hello World" tier coding ability won't mean shit when the robots take over.

>>9121606
>lives in an unsustainable hyperindustrial age dependent on abundant energy and continuous growth
>thinks that it is reasonable that every thought/question/interaction/desire is funneled through the internet as an implicit act of data production
>believes that computer code will continue to usurp law and language as the new substrate of God
i feel that it is all going too far, and the consequences are not going to be any good for most people

>>9121606
Starting with Java and C++ doesn't take that much time, you can still read some old pedophiles. I studied computer science. Not being completely brain dead and actually emotionally invested in programming languages is probably the reason I'm not some dead inside code monkey.

>>9121649
You're always welcome to stop posting [[[on_the_Internet]]] and joint he closest amish community

>>9121606
Starting with Java and C++ is like starting with Nietzsche and Marx. The Greeks equivalent for the digital age is pure maths.

File: cover.jpg (51KB, 400x579px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 400x579px

>not starting with pic related

Python master race reporting in

>>9121748
>not starting with the Greeks of computer programming: Knuth's TAOCP

>>9121606

I tried man but it's really boring.

So your point is the Ancients are outdated?
For argument's sake, what makes you believe that Java and C++ are not becoming outdated as well in the near future?
You yourself claim thst our digital age is rapidly developing, and yes, lots of our digital and technological advancements are only a flash in the pan.
The greeks, on the other hand, have managed to stick around for over 2,000 years, which is rather impressive.

>>9121993
>The greeks, on the other hand, have managed to stick around for over 2,000 years, which is rather impressive
For historical purposes and not much else. Classical education was dropped long time ago and for good reasons - it's outdated and pointless.

File: ibniz_evolving.png (206KB, 513x513px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 513x513px

>>9121769

>Greeks of computer programming: Knuth's TAOCP
>imperative high level languages

>>9121679

starting with Java and C++ is like learning to read with the Hungry Caterpillar or Harry Potter

>>9121617
>there is no virtuous code

the human body is a hypercomplex chemical computing environment that manages to survive despite its fragility and reproduce itself from simple components

>it's just a lot of hackjob pseudo-engineering by millions of half-trained code monkeys

this is mostly true in regards to all enterprise code, which is a social blight


Lisp, any actor-based languages, esoteric languages, chemical computing, and sufficiently simulated automata are undeniably /lit/

>>9121617

This is so true. Computer science is elegant but programming seems like a hack job.

>>9122173

How does Lisp fix the above? I've used it a little bit in SICP and know it's not verbose but how can it be viable when it doesn't have libraries?

>>9122173
>Lisp, any actor-based languages, esoteric languages are undeniably /lit/
>it's a functional sperg tries to justify his shit life choices episode
Shouldn't you be somewhere making millions off your perfect monadic autism?

I have a question for you guys:
what exactly is the relationship, let's say the common ground, between programming codes and philosophy?

retard coders basically playing digital legos

>>9122197

>Shouldn't you be somewhere making millions off your perfect monadic autism

I use Lisp and functional stuff to work a remote job that puts me in the top 10% income bracket of my very young age group, so no but yes

>>9121606
>studying greeks makes you a thinker
>studying coding makes you a service staff

i would kill myself if i had to do that daily

>>9121646
Learning Ai is relatively easy with all of the open source stuff that's been recently released. Fuck, you could set up your own autonomous car (shitty, but still) in a couple of months

>>9122002
Jesus Christ you mong, just sit your fat code proletariat stem autist ass down and read the Oedipus Plays and tell me that this has been preserved for "historical purposes" only.

The kind of raw energy these texts provide is still unsurpassed, maybe equaled by some other works, in the 3000 years since they were written.

>>9122873
>>9122212

>what exactly is the relationship...between programming and philosophy

well if you start ground up from learning logic gates or signal processing and/or assembly programming you understand things from a material science standpoint

whereas with higher level languages such as lisp, haskell, or even using human reprogramming paradigms such as meditation, drug use, exercise, or lifestyle changes you understand it as modalities of cognition

a lot of MIT hackers were into Zen, a lot of West coast hackers were into LSD, and it shows in their respective results

i code to make poetry, so no

>>9122868
>Studying greeks makes you a McDonalds employee
>studying coding makes you a respectable salaryman

My passion and career is software. I also read philosophy and the like because I have a great interest in history, art, and just knowledge in general.

Also Java and C++ are shit languages.

>>9122890
>implying you can't enjoy literature in your spare time while being useful to society professionally

>>9122933
>coding makes you a respectable
kek of the week

>>9122935

>structuring your life around your utility to the herd

t.last man

>>9122942
Says the person whose entire life revolves around and exists because of software

>>9122953
>muh radical individualism
This site is 18+, lad.

File: Physical-Therapy.png (547KB, 3543x2362px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 3543x2362px

>becoming even more autistic and fat and pale by sitting on your fat ass inside alone playing digital legos all day
>not starting with the human body (anatomy) and getting your degree in physical therapy and using the wisdom you learned from nietzsche and the greeks to help rehabilitate others and improve their quality of life

>>9122969
>entire life revolves around and exists because of software
kek of the month

>>9122969
computercucks always say this but barely any of them even know how their cars work

>>9122973

he posts, unironically.

>>9122985
I hope there's no need to explain to you that the entire world works off of software, especially computer you're sitting at.

>>9122994
If people didn't drive their cars for a day, nothing too terrible would happen.
If Internet went down for 5 seconds, society would collapse forever

>>9122994
What does that even mean? Are you talking about how the on-board computer works, or are you just trying to make me feel bad for not being able to build an internal combustion engine

>>9123008
if all of the oxygen disappeared from earth everyone would die but that doesn't mean i have to study quantum mechanics to better understand the chemical elements

>>9123008
If by cars you mean all motor vehicles then the impact of that would be a very big problem, including and beginning with node operators being unable to reach their workstations for maintenance and the internet then shutting down.
>If Internet went down for 5 seconds, society would collapse forever
No.

>>9123033
dude don't be mean he's changing the world by typing in the numbers for his boss without him it'd be the 1920s with better healthcare

>>9122935
>implying appreciating literature isn't a full time occupation

>>9123033
He's exaggerating because he's stupid, but you're actually in full on denial if you think that the main mode of communication in a society could disappear and it wouldn't affect anything, especially considering how many systems are tied to it. And software is more than just the internet. Your utilities in your home get there because someone wrote software that helps them do that. What do you gain by pretending to not know this?

>>9123002
>>9123008
>entire world works off of software
>If Internet went down for 5 seconds, society would collapse forever
You are the prime example of why CS majors are shunned and shat on by absolutely everyone including the STEM community.

>>9123058
All you have to offer is insults instead of trying to refute what I said. Your car operates due to an on-board computer. Financial institutions run off of software. The stock market runs off of software. Nearly all forms of communication are now routed through the internet, including many phone lines. What exactly are you trying to prove? You're like cavemen yelling at fire because you don't understand it.

casually mention anything STEM and non-STEM people get butthurt so easily

please don't bicker, enjoy some A E S T H E T I C S produced by the 1989 Symbolics Lisp machine and its S-geometry package

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n21FSKDjObg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VmJVNYfxDc

>>9123049
>He's exaggerating because he's stupid, but you're actually in full on denial if you think that the main mode of communication in a society could disappear and it wouldn't affect anything
Did I say that though? No.
>If Internet went down for 5 seconds society would collapse forever
>if the main mode of communication in a society disappeared it wouldn't affect anything
These are not the same statements.

Yes, the Internet and software are great from optimising our lives but in the hypothetical comparison, there's not a lot of use in optimising logistics if you don't have the ability to reach, operate or deliver the means of production and the products.

Yes, some bad things would happen if the net went down for even 5 seconds. We'd get over it. Society would not collapse forever.
Not being able to get to your job as a nuclear power plant inspector, or delivery driver for food to a major city however would cause bigger problems (not entirely apocalyptic but they wouldn't be great).

>>9123008
>If Internet went down for 5 seconds, society would collapse forever
Society is a way more complex organisation than your limited perceptions. I don't see how could programmers think that they could shape the entire structure of our world just by hard boiled logic and a high school diploma.

>>9123084

Every profession contributes to society in ways. Obviously we need ways to deliver physical products, we need people to design and build roads, we need people to man cash registers, etc etc

The point is though that all of those use software. The civil engineer doesn't just draw on a piece of paper then a road is built. They use a piece of software for design, software for estimation, software for delivery. The driver relies on software to direct him to where he needs to go, and the people who manage the driver rely on software to know where he is, what he's delivering, and who wants it. The person at the register relies on the software in the register, and the scanning technology that tells him how much the products cost.

Obviously society existed before software, and if somehow software disappeared forever or never existed, we could still live, but we couldn't live in the luxury we do now. Automation and accuracy and speed has made this modern society, and pretending otherwise because someone on /b/ posted a meme about CS majors is retarded.

>>9123113
>Obviously society existed before software

no it didn't, society, its laws, its taboos, its traditions and religions are forms of software, codified in oral and written histories, languages, alhpabets, and castes that regulates human behaviour

the human capacity to program ourselves is what separates us from the beasts

>>9123113
>The driver relies on software to direct him to where he needs to go
Wow. You're not even aware that most cars have multiple processors inside them to help them run? Yes, even the ones without little LCD monitors on the dashboard. Why are you in this conversation if you think that fucking GPS is the deepest software has got into vehicles? It's far more insidious than that.

If the software in most cars vanished then that would be a problem yes, but we're not talking about that are we?
This was internet going down for 5 seconds vs not using any motor vehicles for a day.

>>9123113
>Obviously society existed before software, and if somehow software disappeared forever or never existed, we could still live
but
>If Internet went down for 5 seconds society would collapse forever
and
>entire world works off of software
and
>entire life revolves around and exists because of software

Maybe next time think before typing, not after.

>>9123133
I'm not sure why you're basing your whole argument on something that someone else said, that I already said was retarded. Are you having a conversation with me, or that guy?

And I was giving specific examples of how people USE software, in case you can't recognize a pattern. There are about a trillion other examples of software that is used in passive manners that you don't have to think about.

>>9123137
I didn't make the retarded comment about the internet going down for five seconds for fuck's sake. If your argument was so strong you could at least address the things I said and not some random fucktard.

And the entire world does work off of software. If you genuinely think that you can find a part of modern society that is unaffected by software then you're free to bring it up as an example, but you haven't so far.

>>9123077

they knew about vaporwave in the 80s? no way!

>>9121606
Why should I learn coding when there are thousands of menials willing for slave for it? I'd go with greeks and latin anytime than degrading myself with non-intellectual labour such as programming and computer science.

>>9123147
There's a giant fucking difference between "affected by software" and 'runs entirely because of software' and the rest of the retarded greentext I brought up.

>>9123164
Name something in modern society that does not run entirely because of software. It is a part of everything. There is no modern system that is not based on software. Are you going to try and tell me that society doesn't run entirely because of electricity too?

So far your argument has been literally nothing but saying "nuh uh". If you want to continue this then you're going to have to offer me something to at least argue with, otherwise I'll go back to reading.

>>9123170
It's fun to see how dregs like you try to justify your existence by leeching into other professions. Modern society would exist regardless of your software because modernity isn't based around stuff like that because Modernity is a concept, an idea.

File: 1477456956318.jpg (34KB, 320x405px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 320x405px

>>9123194
>I waited nearly 10 minutes just for you to say "nuh uh" and call me names

Truly /lit/ is home to the deep thinkers and intellectuals

File: Pythagore.jpg (113KB, 709x925px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 709x925px

>>9123157

>be autist in Greece named Pythagoras
>formalize beliefs about the cosmos and the soul into geometry, mathematics, and pre-Platonic philosophy
>encrypt esoteric teachings into greek texts and oral traditions so that society may one day live to explore the wonders of the mind and matter at will
>die and leave legacy to western civilization
>be surfing the astral plane
>discover giants of thinking leading up to invention of computers, build astral computer to surf the akashic records
>eternally proud of 21st century level of achievements in matematekoi and tekne
>see this post
>mfw

>>9123170
Literally everything involving software. It's a tool that helps us with convenience and efficiency. We have car assistance systems and CTs and RT trading and CADs. But automotive industry, medicine, finance and engineering existed just fine before it. Is software responsible for the speed of progress? Definitely. Is software a necessary part of progress? Maybe. Is it an essential part of everything? No.

>>9123207
Pythagoras is a meme idolilsed by inferior analytic "philosophers" and shouldn't be taken seriously.

>>9123194

you are greatly underestimating the real extent to which the operations of human affairs have been entrusted to Technology. this is not to glamorize the role of the technicians of the machine-system, but to simply recognize the environment you inhabit.

>>9123218

btw this is who is posting in this thread folks

>>9123204
Yeah, because it would only take 3 minutes to find some reaction image and post like you did, right? /lit/ is obviously too deep for your limited intellectual understanding. And I'm not calling names, that's a fact.

>>9123222
>this is not to glamorize the role of the technicians of the machine-system
But that's the entire premise of the thread.

>>9123141
If you're talking about something different then why the fuck are you saying it in responses to me?

>>9123228
>role of the technicians of the machine-system
>simply recognize the environment you inhabit
We all live in a shitty Harlan Ellison novel, right.

>>9123218

>Pythagoras is solely an analytic philosopher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwxZ21qRdMg

>>9123264
If you're incapable of simple observation then what are you good for?

>>9123228
>>9123278
>butthurt analyticals detected

>>9123285

you have know idea what the hell you're talking about, go read, and start with the greeks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism#Music_and_harmony

>>9123280
>if you don't approve of my derailing the thread into pointless polemics then you're dumb'
wew

File: 1388585138220.jpg (38KB, 641x720px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 641x720px

>greasy code monkeys and computer nerds think they could rule the world

>>9122839
More info please.

>>9123294
>gives a wikipedia article for counter argument
>thinks he's arguing
I feel bad for you.

>>9123312
I didn't ask for a snarky comment with my latte, champ. No tips for you today.

File: tumblr_olj9civIlb1ukfpx2o1_500.jpg (69KB, 500x646px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 500x646px

>>9121606

>>9123322
>butthurt analyticals detected
>argument

>>9123333
But that wasn't an argument, that's a fact. I don't think a premise where you and I are both subconsciously accept should constitute as an "argument".

>>9123353
>butthurt oligophrenic detected

>>9123353
>>9123322

no one wants to argue with you, but Pythagoras was initiated into occult and esoteric organizations before ever saying a lick about mathematics, he was not "an autist analytical philosopher"

>>9123357
>I use fancy words to hide my butthurt

>>9123365
I know, bubba.

Weirdly enough some people have enough brain power to do two or even three things at once. These people are known to doctors as "normal"

I didn't go into programming because I didn't feel like doing a good job and losing it to a mail-order Indian who can do an adequate job for less money.

>>9123359
>he was not "an autist analytical philosopher"
Not the same guy but hardly anyone except analyticals take his views for granted.

>>9123380
>losing it to a mail-order Indian
Because we all know the Silicon Valley is in Mumbai nowadays.

>>9123383

Plato literally ripped off most of Timaeus from Pythagorean writings or teachings

Indian philosophers study his esoteric beliefs in parallel with Vedic metaphysics

>>9121757
Hey trashman, don't forget to pick up my scraps this time

START WITH AJDUKIEWICZ

DON'T EVEN FUCKING TALK TO ME UNTIL THEN

>>9121606
>starting with Java and C++
I already know assembly, why do I need to learn shitty high-level languages?

>>9122982
japanese and greek thought inspired me to actually learn about my body, improve physique, and plan nutrition

improvements to thought / mental clarity / overall wellbeing is amazing with regards to how physical state effects cognition

>>9124256
If you're entirely serious, because the abstraction gives you a great deal more leverage over the structure of your code and makes modifying it and adding additional features to it take vastly less time, and even if you're autistically smart you'll save more time with high level constructs than being an assembly god, especially on modern architectures where machine code itself is abstracted over microcode and 'virtual' registers whose performance characteristics are difficult to figure out without extensive profiling.

>>9122982
>>9124762
OK, this is actually an interesting topic, can either of you or anyone else expand on how those philosophies and the job of a physical therapist work together? Or how to imbue patients with new, philosophically healthy views on life?

>>9124256
Because saying that Assembly is good enough is like riding a horse on the highway and yelling at the car's as they fly by.

do you guys ever think about how philosophers, in their pursuit to make sense of our world, have to create their own terms and phrases?
almost as if they are creating a whole new language that only makes sense in the context of their thought

it reminds me of another world with its own language that makes no sense outside of its own context

File: Capture.png (28KB, 496x453px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 496x453px

>>9127092
Math?

>>9123325
underrated

>>9123157
Computer science is pretty cool desu senpai. This semester I'm taking a course on decidability and incompleteness - i.e. theoretical computer science - and it's cross-listed in the philosophy and math departments. It basically covers introductory model theory and proof theory, and from there goes into primitive recursive function, Turing machines, and lambda calculus (3 equivalent formalisms, although lambda calculus is the coolest). By the end of the semester, we will have covered the completeness theorems as well as the 1st and 2nd incompleteness theorems, the decidability of first order arithmetic, and some basic provability logic/Lob's Theorem.

If you aren't at least familiar with the basics of this shit, then you aren't really prepared to fully understand modern philosophy, computer science, or mathematics. So while programming is indeed useless and uninteresting bullshit, maths and computer science are really interesting and extremely relevant to contemporary philosophy. In fact you can't really do much contemporary philosophy of language or linguistics without a decent background in shit like set theory and lambda calculus (because, e.g. of Montague Semantics).

>>9121606
>starting with java and C++
fuck off, that's how you be a code monkey. Start with hardware and work your way up. Firmware, binary, machine language, assembly, C, etc.