Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as

The redpill

Take it

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What other threads did you start this bullshit in? I'm gonna guess /tv/ and /b/

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> But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

They also didn't feature magic rings and elves.

Is this guy literally autistic?

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard
>You are smarter than a famous writer
feels good

What did Aragorn do with orc refugees?

>>9104436
Martin thinks his stories are more "mature" because they appeal to disillusioned generation Y youngsters who have no ideals or virtues but circlejerk over "lol, everything is grey, nobody is a good person, there is no absolute morality!! kekeke i'm so mature" but in reality all it is is slasher and gore porn with tits and incest thrown in to appeal to horny adolescents. Its much more immature than tolkien's work because it doesn't even attempt to examine the nature of good or evil or examine what they mean or their origins, but instead just goes into "lol there's no good vs bad, everyone is bad, its shades of grey".

>>9104575
How about both are simple caricatures of the world?

>>9104575
Martin has "pure evil" characters, though (The Mountain, Ramsay Bolton).

Tolkien, unlike this huge cuck, released his magnus opus as complete work. His was overrun by a tv show. Not even manga authors do that, they retain creative freedom, work at their own pace, and let tv people worry about fillers. He did not do that. He let an army of scenarists dictate the direction the plot would go. He let his child of thought and sweat be raped and whored around by hollywood, and he stood by, opened his zipper, and stroked his cock watching it.

Does the series offer something other than plot and gore?

>>9104602
Not really. It is entertaining, though. Just watch the TV show if you have any interest, as the books will never be finished. The TV show will be done next year.

this meme is really taking off XD

take the bogpill

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My own work involves a world containing anthromorphs and "Trueborn" human folk. The humans enslaved the anthros for thousands of years,but for the past 500 or so the anthros fought for and eventually attained civil rights,mainly through the mechanations of a magician class wielding a superior type of magic. Imagine our civil war if voodoo suddenly started working. The culmination of this war ended in an anticlimacs,with both sides too weary to go further. The stories are set a decade or so after this point,with both sides dealing with raw wounds,old grudges,new paradigms and a gloss of political correctness swabbed over all. Neither ex masters or ex slaves have clean hands,and to the children growing up,the grown-ups certainly have strange ideas about what is considered "people". Here is a recent episode involving this...

>>9104585
FMA 2003

>>9104585
Ahahaha fuck that is spot on.

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>>9104610

I have wondered what happened to the Orcs actually.

Did they create different Orc tribes? A Orc Kingdom? Can Orcs plow the fields, can they create somewhat decent societies when they're not controlled by some evil? Are there even Orc women?

>>9105378
nvm

Found some info on it

'They would,' grunted Gorbag. 'We'll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d'you say? – if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.'
'Ah!' said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'

It seems they've lived without being commanded by Sauron in the intermediate period.

>>9105407
The orcs are metaphors for the Mongols or Huns no?

>>9105461
According to Tolkien nothing in his books is an allegory ever

>>9104629
This makes me extremely uncomfortable. I can't really explain why, but it is very unsettling.

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>At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:

>Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
>Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
>spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
>a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
>Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

>With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.

>Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

>Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.

GRRM can get fucked. The feelings that this invokes is far superior to reading about some bullshit political policy.

>>9104427
Thought all the orcs died when the ground collapsed on them

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>>9104602
If you put it like that, not really. A bit of history, maybe, but altogether bastardized. If you're looking for muh lore and worldbuilding, it does an admirable job, with some plotlines in the past warranting their own spinoffs apparently. It also seems like casuals really like it just for the characters anyway, but the Lannisters are far and away the most interesting with a highlight probably being Jaime's development but the TV show manages to fuck that up

>>9104427

>The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

It's almost as if "fantasy" and "history" are two different words that signify different things.

>>9104585

It breaks my heart but this is true. I really did enjoy the series but the show to a dump on everything he built and he is responsible for it.

Where does westeros get its food from if winters take years?

>>9106731
That's covered a heap of times, if you'd bother to read the books or watch the show.

Winters take years, but so do summers, so they create massive stockpiles of food to last it out. Combine that with plenty of food sources still being available (animals don't just stop existing in winter, you can still fish), and that's how they get by.

>>9106731
What do the fucking deer and animals eat if the growth cycle of trees shuts down for years at a time? Can deer eat tree bark?

>>9106731
Also, some winters have brief moments when the weather gets milder(same is true for summer, they call it 'summer snows', if i'm not mistaken).

>>9106534
Now take a wild guess; which writer believes in soul?

>>9106534
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryy5U2mNTJU

>>9104585
He did say that he did it entirely for the money though. For so much money I would probably sell my work out as well my principals too.

>>9106842
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>9104427
jews did grrm

#AIPAC
#PNAC

>>9104427
Narratives about ruling don't fit the genre Tolkien created, which is probably why Tolkien didn't spend any time on the subject.

The fact it doesn't fit seems proved by Martin's great difficulties in writing interestingly about ruling in the couple or three books where he's spent hundreds of pages expounding on the subject.

>>9106842
>principals
Back to school, underage.

>>9106740
I watched the show and they never adressed it afaik

>>9107759
Pretty sure they mention how they won't have enough food to feed the peasants a few times throughout the show, I think they're generally focused on not dying from some other dickhead first though.

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Seriously though, did they genocide the orcs?

>>9104427

lol does he actually think he is a good writer, da phuc

>>9105461
The Orcs speak a language based on Turkish, I believe. They're clearly based around the uncivilized outsiders that are found at the edges of great civilizations.

>>9107840
I don't know where you saw that. But he based at least one form of elvish off of a mixture between Finnish and some romance language (I think it was Italian, but maybe Spanish).

Tolkien loved Finnish mythos. He admits this and says that several characters and themes in his books were knowingly or unknowingly taken from The Kalevala.

So orcs do not represent Fins.

>>9107840
>>9107878
Wow, idk how I read Turkish as Finnish. Whew

>>9107880
All good. Still interesting to read.

GRRM has better prose than Tolkien

>>9104579
I think Ramsay isn't supposed to be "pure evil" though. He comes across as that, but I think George was going for the whole "he's an unhinged product of his shitty environment and represents all the terrible shit that goes on in Westeros". It's not very well-executed, sure, but I always got that impression from Ramsay.

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>>9106518
Then I have done my job! I mean to explore this strange set of circumstances my characters find themselves in with confronting volatile issues. Here is an episode where a surprising revelation is revealed by a so called ally,and in some ways is perfectly justified in her opinions...

>>9104427
Tolkien modeled the novels on scripture, not books of history. They are patently religious and pay little reference to strict, "realistic" history.

Holy fuck, is GRRM actually this stupid?

Orcs were born adults iirc.

>>9106671
that would make sense

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>>9106534

extract great, point agreed with. picture ruined by this fucking horse leg. who ever saw a horse run like this?

>>9104629
>>9109077
Is this a webcomic?

>>9109022
HA! okay dude. I could barely get through the first book. It was good but some of it was wonky as fuck.

>>9109576
Since you asked...

www.jeremeyprickles.com

>>9104534
>>9104534

All fantasy fiction is grounded somewhat in reality. The elements that are fantasy usually follow certain rules (magic is limited by ability, power, artifacts, runes, spells, etc.) Elves are a racial group, not too different than other racial and ethnic minorities in real human societies.

To want to add realism to the actual living and structures of government and organization of societies within this new reality makes perfect sense. To make everything so massively simplistic is to avoid delving even an inch deep into some serious literary themes that could exist in this genre. I prefer adult fantasy over childish fairy tale fantasy.

>>9104579
Some people are just mentally ill. The Mountain is just an over-sized retard with very little empathy and was raised in a culture that promotes strength and the warrior mentality. He's not "evil" for its own sake, and he's a rare case of psychopathy in this world. Most people in this world care about something or someone else.

>>9104610
Will somebody tell me about this meme? I've seen it everywhere and I can't understand it.

No need to be wordy, a quick rundown would do.

>what was Hrothgar tax policy in Beowulf?
>why didn't Gunther establish universal health care in the Nibelungenlied?
>was King Arthur in favor of marriage equality?
>why didn't no one thought of establish a centralize justice system in Njals saga?

What a bunch of hacks through history.

>>9110112
Explain the bastard of Bolton

>>9110112
I dunno man, there's a lot of characters who do bad shit just because in that book. There's a few who do good stuff just because as well though, don't get me wrong, I think the Starks in general are meant to represent that.

Though I think it's good that he wrote most characters as more grey, bad with a purpose for want of a better term, because people aren't just good or bad.

>>9110943
yeah there are like a couple good characters and 1 or 2 pure evil characters and the rest are grey

to jeremy prickles, got a couple questions:

- i was diagnosed with autism. were you as well? i can feel a kindred spirit from your website. cool art. i rlly like it.

- i was wondering what was the purpose of you posting in this thread. i do not find any connection (for now) between your comic and grrm's statements. i am curious and i hope this does not offend.

bye for now. keep it weird .

>>9105126
Author still actually wrote her own fucking story, finished it, and it did get a more accurate reboot.

>>9110095
Why not just read historical fiction or study real history instead of dogshit "adult" fantasy?
I dont care how you dress your elves or how they fuck themselves, magical tree fairies are still childish.

>>9110095
>I prefer mature games for mature gamers like myself.

>>9109106
Considering that his books is feminist propaganda.

Yes.

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>>9112486
The subject of the thread was world building,and all the little details authors gloss over after the Big Story is finished. A lot of the subject matter I encounter writing my webcomic involves forging a life after that Big Story is over,both sides of a long drawn out conflict exhausted from the fight and mixed feelings determined to Play Nice.

And,no I am not autistic. Why say that?

Somebody please post the "the more she drank the more she shat" except!

>>9104427

You know....Tolkien would slap the shit out of you for over analyzing his shit.

He always said, it's just a story, no allegory, or commentary on the real world is contained in it.

>>9107840
The Orc languages are agglutinative, like Turkish but that is where the similarities end. The whole orcs are based on Turks meme is a lie invented on 4chan by people who don't like Turks.

>>9110095
>All fantasy fiction is grounded somewhat in reality.
I think you have let Tolkien's legacy warp your perception of his works. Tolkien wasn't writing fantasy in the way we think of it. His are heavily inspired by Anglo-Saxon and Norse texts, which themselves lack the realistic quality you are talking about. We don't hear about taxes or laws, or have a window into the world of slaves in Beowulf, but only an unimaginative pendant would actually care.

>>9110829
Ah, I saw this just after writer my previous thing. Pretty much this.

>>9107840
IRL the Turks were basically Orcs. Massive slavery based empire. Literally worse than Jeff Davis.

Let's play a game, /lit/. Try to guess which ones are real quotes and which are fake quotes.

"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water."

"The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing."

"Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your right, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs."

"Her loins ached from the urgency of his love making. It was a good ache."

"The ship groaned and growled beneath him like a constipated fat man straining to shit."

What are the tax policies in Westeros?

>>9109077
A bit too much like old-timey didactic play.

>>9115442
>"The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing."

no way that shit is real

>>9112023
Sounds like real life.

>>9115442

1) Real
2) Real
3) Fake
4) Real
5) Fake, I hope.

I have a bad feeling they're all real though.

>>9115442
Aren't they all real?

>>9104427
LOTR is first and foremost intrapersonal symbology, not political commentary.

>>9115602
Yes :)

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>>9115534
>number two is real

Is this what people like to read? Who could read that without putting the book down in disgust?

>>9113901
all writers who want to deflect over-analyzing cunts say the same about their work!
But there always is a hidden reason why artists make art.
also, as readers we are in our right to over-analyze the shit out of Tolkien's work.

>>9104427
>lorefags

>>9104427
Tolkien also finished his series before he died. Until you can say the same of yourself, GRRM, I think it would be best to avoid criticism.

>>9115442
I have read these books and 1-4 are all real. I don't remember 5, but it wouldn't be surprising.

1) Daenerys with dysentery / possible miscarriage, abandoned in the Dothraki sea.

2) I think this is Asha?

3) Cersei mocking Robert for preventing him from getting her pregnant with his child while she slept with her brother.

4) Catelyn post-sex with Eddard. This one is just kind of sweet tho

>>9116452
5) I think is when Tyrion is crossing the sea in A Dance With Dragons? It's when he's being seasick.

>>9105370
fucking kek

The alt-right is full of nazi high priests, take the bog pill

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Like pottery

>>9116828
>They call me Darkstar, I am the night

I...is that real?

>>9104579
Real life has "pure evil" characters, too.

If *everyone* was grey, equal parts black asnd white, then it wouldn't be very realistic, would it?

>>9106671
No, no, no. You can demand the impossible from the reader. But not the implausible.

>>9106742
The trees could have evolved to cope with that.

>>9116921
>Real life has "pure evil" characters, too.
No, it doesn't. This is a comforting lie.

>>9116966
Yes it does.

>>9116966
You'd think that "everyone has some good in them" would be the comforting lie.

Which it is.

>>9116972
>>9116973
No, the truth is that we are products of conditioning, social learning, and group dynamics. Pure evil is a comforting lie because it means that we can condemn others without considering the root cause of the problems that lead to their transgressions (social policy, childrearing, poverty, etc.).

We can pretend that people were just "evil" rather than try to improve our world - which is fucking hard work. It also involves admitting that the potential for evil is also in us, which is uncomfortable.

>>9112515
>hurp durp I stick to adult fiction where the detectives investigates multiple homicides a year
>totally not adult fantasy

>>9113886
I call and rise with Tolkien's strangely unpopulated areas between the civilized areas. (It's as if he intentionally didn't want to inject real politics in his world. Two countries sharing a border river find some modus vivendi on how to use the river. Water rights is one of the oldest subjects of politics.)

>>9116985
TL;DR: Yes, pure evil is possible.

>>9116985
The *actual* truth is that morality can't be so cleanly divided into categories like "good" and "evil" in the first place. Those terms are only halfway useful in discussion when both parties agree on roughly the same moral standards. Otherwise, they're just rhetorical buzzwords.

Honestly, your post reminded me of Carl the Cuck.

It's like he doesn't understand that Tolkien's universe is deliberately mythical and deterministic. It doesn't make any sense to compare orcs with human wars, they are literally created to be evil and corrupt. Characters such as Gandalf are actual emissaries from God and live for many millenia. Middle-Earth basically reflect Tolkien's Catholic beliefs, where history is a long defeat of humanity and there are ontological categories of good and evil.

>>9116995
Also, "pure evil" can be an convenient excuse to *not* punish and work for changes.

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>>9116985

>determinism

>>9117006
You can go on a wild goose chase and try to make bad people good through the Magic of Friendship(tm).

Or you can accept that bad people exist, and take measures to ensure they don't hurt society through their malevolent natures.

>>9117017
>muh exclusion of the middle
Sorry, but "pure evil" is just a lame-ass excuse for moralistic exhibitionism.

>>9117016
You think conditioning, social learning, and group dynamics equals determinism?

Holy shit that's stupid.

>>9116995
>>9117006
It seems like you agreed with me and then insulted me.

Fuck you too.

>>9116828
if he stuck to making fun of those lines the pic would be OK but he had to go and ruin it by saying this obvious bullshit:
>Those are the most famous lines in ASOIAF.

>>9104575
I actually really liked Eddard and his son in the show. I'm talking about the Alpha son, the one who would have been a Chad if the story was set in the 50's.

They were both such good and moral people; and they always held themselves accountable for their actions. Really makes you think.

The only good parts about asoiaf are the maesters and Stannis (with his crew).

>>9104629
why is Funny always capitalized?

>>9106534
That...wasn't even particularly good. That was, like, B- on average. If one of my students turned that shit in, I'd just give him the A, only because it's better than the usual dick that all the other students seem to turn in.

It's seriously not that compelling.

>>9118007
post grade A material

>>9116452
>>9116629

Yep, its either Tyrion on the boat or Samwell and Gilly on a boat, either way thats a real line..

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>>9104427
Tolkien
>Combat veteran of WWI who saw some of the fiercest, bloodiest, most lethal warfare even unleashed in human history
Martin
>Conscientious objector
Tolkien
>One of the greatest scholars of language in history, he was famous as a professor and scholar before he was published he was the chair of English at the most prestigious university on earth where he stood out amongst other giants.
Martin
>Couldn't feed himself as a writer, so a friend got him a low-end teaching job at a rinky-dink college no one has heard of for 2 years and quit
Tolkien
>Wrote the most popular, influential fiction of the 20th Century as a pastime, a hobby, generating a tremendous impact on literature, music, and film
Martin
>A professional writer for his entire life before he wrote 'a soap opera with swords' that is popular because it has tits in it was most famous for editing books of short stories written by other people about a super-hero roleplaying game he ran 30 years ago
............................................................
Who the fuck cares what Martin thinks of Tolkien? It is like asking a shoeshine boy his opinion of the Crimean War

>>9117303
But that's the point: whenever you ask someone for quintessential GRRM lines you're much more liekly to get one of those than anything else. If he was worth shit as a writer his fans would have actual compelling lines to pull from his works and rebut that image with. The fact that there are no rebuttals confirms the image's premise. Those are the most famous lines because they are the only lines that distinguish Martin from all other generic modern fantasy trash.
The most noteworthy part of Ice&Fire is not Martin at his best, but Martin at his worst.

>>9118520
>fiction
*mythopoiesis
>tits
*rape

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>>9118565
Here's my take
Martin is to Fantasy what Rand was to Science Fiction:
In both cases you have a writer of at best mediocre ability. After struggling each produces a work of no great skill but it is full of sex and violence. You know - potboilers.
People buy the books for the rape, incest, etc.
Morons mistake
>'it is selling well'
for
>'it is good'
and those morons *include the authors*.
Now believing they have some gift, both begin to speak about politics, philosophy, and writing as if they WEREN'T talentless hacks.

>>9118593
>Martin is to Fantasy what Rand was to Science Fiction:
Uh, Rand wasn't scifi.

>>9118624
Anthem
>Set in a post-apocalyptic society surviving among the ruins of the contemporary world where outcasts re-discover the lost technology of the ancient 20th century
Atlas Shrugged
>Reardon's miracle metal; the Xylophone WMD; a perpetual motion car engine; Ragnar's super-submarine; Ragnar's anti-gravity plane
Um, yeah.
It is

>>9117952
In this instance,Funny referred to Funny Animals,as in the sorts of characters one finds in Disney comics:slapstick wacky caricatures of people,automatically discounted and dismissed no matter how eloquent or profound they might be. Scrooge McDuck might be a more competant businessman than Donald Trump,but what unenlightened human would bother finding this out,let alone vote him into a position of power over them? Its why the anthromorphs were enslaved in the first place:the TrueBoen felt they needed "managing".

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>>9104427
>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
What is World War Two?

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>>9115442

>>9118520

Tolkien was basically a rear echelon guy. He wasn't in the thick of the fighting itself, but he would have seen the sum of it. I think there was one instance where he got into some shit in a captured communications trench though, but I could be mistaken.

>>9116986
>I call and rise with Tolkien's strangely unpopulated areas between the civilized areas.
If I'm not mistaken, the events of The Lord of the Rings take place not long after a serious famine in the area. That's one of the several reasons that Gondor and Rohan have both seen better days at the beginning of the series.
>It's as if he intentionally didn't want to inject real politics in his world
Yes, and? It's a heroic epic. Who gives a shit about the water rights when Sauron's knocking?

>>9117940
Stannis the Mannis

>>9119501
The thing that always gets me is this bit, from the foreword to LoTR:
>One has indeed personally to come under the shadow of war to feel fully its oppression; but as the years go by it seems now often forgotten that to be caught in youth by 1914 was no less hideous an experience than to be involved in 1939 and the following years. By 1918, all but one of my close friends were dead.
The guy was in the Somme, man. They almost sent him in the first push, apparently, which had a ton of people die. He was a communications officer in a chaotic battle where they couldn't use telephones or even Morse code because the Germans had cracked into their comms.

>>9116985

I agree with you. This is why whenever anyone calls someone a monster or something similar I remind them that they were human and that makes it all the worse.

They try to dissociate from "monsters" so they don't have to think that someone from their own species could do something like that. It's childish and pathetic.

>>9116985
It is always hard to watch non-Catholics try to grasp the nature of reality.

>>9120318
And sad desu. Martins another secular moral relativist in a long line of post modernism. Tolkien was a man who could see a future with the kingdom of god where men vanquished evil and proclaimed a land with respect for ancestors and godhood.

>>9120318
>>9120365
>christcucks
You can either have god or absolute, objective morality. Not both.

>>9120374
Isnt absolute objective morality usually derived from a godhood? The catholic church in 1920 wasnt for moral subjectivity.

>>9104427
How can a man be so over- and underrated? Is he merely controversial?

>>9119007
Sauron didn't win in the fantasy book. We still have quite a lot of Germans around, they didn't leave on their boats.

>>9120318
I agree. Reading Catholic theology was opening so many knots in my thinking. I have to thank /pol/ anons for their prayers, too.

>>9120395
>Sauron didn't win
neither did hitler

>>9120318
>>9120365
>>9120401
How can you enjoy any ideas about these themes while being so literally brainwashed? You already have it all figured out, so might as well just go listen to another sermon that restates all your beliefs for you again. Leave.

>>9120395
See >>9115643. The Nazis are inside everyone. I mean, just look at the dregs of programmed /polshits above.

>>9120385
He can only be described as overrated, and "controversial" if you value the opinion of the serfs who read his trash

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>How can you enjoy any ideas about these themes while being so literally brainwashed? You already have it all figured out, so might as well just go listen to another sermon that restates all your beliefs for you again. Leave.

>>9120524
What did he mean by this

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>>9120524
>I don't actually have an arg-diddly-darn-doodly-argument!

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>make an unsubstantiated assertion about a branch of philosophy you clearly know nothing about
>get called out on it
>get assmad
#Dawkins #HitchSlap #Rationalism

Imagine being such a clueless piece of shit you use the word 'quibble' unironically

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This is now a post-a-random-fedora-picture thread.

>>9120424
I'm not one of the guys you quoted, in fact I'm a lapsed Catholic at best, but it makes me deeply sad to think that Catholicism could one day become associated with nothing but retarded /pol/dom.

>>9120617
I am the same anon you are responding to, and I actually agree. The problem is that the unlapsed Catholics (and many others) still simply cannot seem to embrace relativity of worldviews, and also that the beauty and power of the Christian imagery and ritual has been watered down by the practitioners to try to get mainstream funding, and definitely been adopted by /poltards for their own bullshit "redpill" tribal in-group psychology. No wonder some people associate religion with childish fantasy when it becomes so mixed up with social behaviour similar to primary school group dynamics. It will all get worse before it gets better.

>>9120634
What does "relativity of worldviews" even mean, though? I can't really think of a way for an organized religion like Catholicism (and if ANY religion can be called "organized, it's this one) to "embrace" relativity of worldviews, if I understand the sentiment behind your meaning. Can it even be done?

>>9120374
This is /lit/ - you should read before posting

>>9120424
Catholics don't do sermons, kid.

>>9120659
Worldview as a concept was actually popularised in the West to specifically address this issue. That is, it was embraced primarily by theists to deliver their system as a comprehensive stance on reality, rather than a set of arbitrary rules and routines. They did this to compete with the secular worldviews, which were rising with clearer core axioms.

But perhaps you're right. A relativity of worldviews implies that different beliefs about reality can be made with similar claims to validity, and this implies Agnosticism not Catholicism. I honesty don't think that religious people can overcome this tension more than just being less intolerant of other belief systems and recognising that they are one of many perspectives. I can't see how they could include relativity within their worldview, and I think it is becoming increasingly necessary to have this in order to be taken seriously by many people now.

>>9120671
Homily then (i.e., a sermon written by someone else who had no idea about the current world situation).

I'm reminded of the last issue of Neil Gaiman's Sandman comic book. One of the many minor characters was a man from the 12th century who found himself in a modern-day renaissance faire and was disgusted at its sanitized too twee atmosphere. "You know what's missing from all this? Shit! It was everywhere, inescapable. People wallowed in it. You want to make this experience more realistic for the patrons coming here? Spray them with shit after they enter the gate!"

Tolkien chose to ignore those details, being more interested in the adventure aspects of the story. George R R Martin includes them to bring the experience "home" on some level.

>>9120688
>"I don't know what 'homily' means"
We know

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>>9109022

>>9104629
Dude, this is fucking stupid. Like a retard trying to explain quantum physics but obviously making a ridicule.

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>>9121935

>>9104427

this would make sense except for the fact that Aragorn becoming king is what happens at the end

the story isn't even about Aragorn being the king its just about his journey to become the king so why would you expect any of this stuff to be in there?

I mean maybe if Tolkien had written a sequel to LoTR he would've explored these kind of things but then again maybe the reason he didn't do that was because he just thought it would be dumb

also its not Tolkien's fault that everybody and their mother decided to rip him off

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>>9121058
>Tolkien chose to ignore those details, being more interested in the adventure aspects of the story.
>Lord of the Rings
>Renaissance
good one lad

>>9122042
>I mean maybe if Tolkien had written a sequel to LotR he would've explored these kind of things but then again maybe the reason he didn't do that was because he just thought it would be dumb
Actually, he wrote a couple times about writing a sequel about heresy in the human kingdom of the Fourth Age, about intrigue and cult-worship and stuff (a bit like what the Blue Wizards were rumored to be doing), but eventually decided against it. He just didn't want to tell the story, or he thought that LotR was the more essential story. Something like that.

Middle-earth has a surplus of natural resources and shit; if you're not greedy and conquer things you don't need, just take care of your land with minimal effort then you thrive (as we see in the shire). Problems only really arise when you start killing everything and using evil magic which has a blight effect on stuff around you. Basically, if you're nice then there will be no flood and famine, you don't need to tax people, there's enough to go around that a standing army of nice soldiers will be fed by the people they're defending without having to arrange things properly. Orcs are basically evil batshit things that try to kill everyone, there are no baby orcs they come out of the ground like that. Next you'll be trying to guilt trip me for wanting ebola to be wiped out.
Shut up Martin.

>>9116985
I would say that a mixture of sadism, pedophilia, a taste for guro and torture and power with perhaps some other little things here and there can be very easily called 'pure evil' in general.

>>9122257
>Basically, if you're nice then there will be no flood and famine
That's unsubstantiated as far as I can tell, and in fact I believe that a famine canonically takes place shortly in Gondor shortly before the events of LotR.

>>9122259
Your description sounds a lot like GRRM, honestly, or at least sounds like the shit he puts into ASOIAF.

Maybe all of Martin's characters are bastards because he himself is one.

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>>9106534
This.
First three novels of ASOIAF were good, but sudden deaths and incest can't compete with Tolkien's greatness. I don't think anyone or anything else can make me feel like Tolkien does. I unironically have a nearly religious connection with his work. Whenever I came across passages of his writing, all the bitterness scatter and my heart is full of light and laughter again. I will always be awestruck at the vastness of his universe and be grateful for the refuge it had been for me in terrible times in the past.

>>9119007
What is World War One?

>>9119501
Being rear echelon on The Somme contained more terror and human suffering than any of GRRM's most painful moments times 20.

>>9123901
Indeed. All those bones piled up on each other were truly one of the horrendous sights brought to humanities eyes.

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>>9109458

>>9121902
Do you?

homily
ˈhɒmJli/
noun
a religious discourse which is intended primarily for spiritual edification rather than doctrinal instruction.
synonyms: sermon

>>9104427
He's right

>>9104427
>Dany diarrhea
>Tyrion jousting on a pig
>2 books of literally nothing happening at all to advance the plot

He has no room to talk about anything.