I know that the concept of mental illness is a spook, it's

>>9000539

because youre a hypochondriac who thinks theyre special.

>>9000539
lol so your saying trannies and homosexuals aren't mentally ill?

maybe it's time you tried the redpill, fucking brainwashed 'Foucault is so great xD' cuckolded retard

>>9000544
they're kind of batshit insane but that's not a mental illness, it's a spook concept

Not a foucault fan

>>9000539
Anyone who calls themselves mentally ill is submitting to their enemies.

>>9000544
Homosexuality has nothing to do with psychology, it's about chemistry. People have no control over their sexuality.

On the other, those who want to change their gender take the decision of doing it, it's a product of their mind. It's not physical.

I'm gay and yes, I think that trannies are fucking insane.

>>9000542
>Psychological diseases are fake
>Hypochondriac

>>9000600
>tfw gay
>people call me lgbtq+

I don't like this

>>9000576
>being bat shit insane isn't even remotely the same as being mentally ill

Okay.

>>9000914
Read The Last Interview with James Baldwin, I think you would really appreciate it

>>9000600
>People have no control over their sexuality.

Then why is pedophilia illegal? Why is beastiality/necrophilia illegal?

>>9000924
>pedophilia
because without mental maturity there is no possibility of consent, it's damaging to the desired object
>beastiality/necrophilia
obscure, no consent possible

>Wow, moral objectivism exists why do we have law? xDDDD

>>9000924
Having those feelings is not illegal. Acting on them to the point that the rights of others who can't give consent (i.e. children, animals, the dead) are violated is illegal. Two consenting adults can fuck all they want.

>>9000945
Consent has literally nothing to do with attraction and your sexuality.

>>9000946
But you cannot control your sexuality, how is it even a possibility to outlaw certain aspects of human nature which are literally, in your words, uncontrollable.

>>9000955
Sexuality isn't a the act of sex you retard

>>9000966
Nope but if I went outside and said I am sexually attracted to animals and children, how do you think that would go down?

I can't control it yo, I am a slave to my genes. I was born a pedo!

>>9000955
I didn't say that anything was uncontrollable, that was my first post.
Certain aspects of human nature make me want to punch people in the face when they're idiots but it isn't "uncontrollable" and is rightfully illegal because it is harmful to them. It is an urge that can be repressed. If someone has urges to perform sex acts on people that can't consent to these acts, they should try to control these urges or in the worst case scenario seek therapy and help. Run-of-the-mill gay sex is harmful to nobody.

>>9000972
Running outside and yelling about sexual attraction to anything will cause you to be ostracized. People have a natural aversion to these two specifically because the urge to prey on weaker people/animals is seen as abhorrent. What are you even trying to argue anymore?

>>9000973
>>9000600
>People have no control over their sexuality.

I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals, if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault, I was born this way, you need to change to facility me, not the other way around.


>Run-of-the-mill gay sex is harmful to nobody.

>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one

Sure, tell that to your whole family tree and literally every single person who struggled tooth and nail to survive just so you could enjoy some gay buttsex without judgement. Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.

Fucking faggot.

>>9000981
>implying you can't go outside and yell I'm gay
xD

What are you doing? Is this your way of backing out? You literally have not even addressed the fact that like Homosexuality, pedophilia, necrophilia and beastality might be hereditary as well, I mean, why is it so different?

You are beating around the bush senpai, you can't have your cake and eat it too in this matter.

You are arguing sexuality is uncontrollable, no?

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mental health is centred in happiness and because of that is hedonistic and coward to live your life around it.

none of the greatest and strongest people in history were mentally sane or happy, the looked for strenght and greatness instead.

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>>9000576

>they're kind of batshit insane but that's not a mental illness

What's your definition of insane and how does it differ from your definition of mentally ill?

>>9000983
>I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals,

Okay

>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault

False.

>you need to change to facility me, not the other way around.

Why?

>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one

I agree per se

>Sure, tell that to your whole family tree and literally every single person who struggled tooth and nail to survive just so you could enjoy some gay buttsex without judgement

What's the point in that?

>Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.

You can't gain consent from an animal. Unless you want to be the bottom, but then you might die like some horse fuckers have.

>>9000955
>how is it even a possibility to outlaw certain aspects of human nature which are literally, in your words, uncontrollable.

The desire might be 'uncontrollable' but the act (which is the illegal part) is completely controllable. We also get the desire to punch people when they're assholes but just because we can't suppress the desire doesn't mean that it should be ok to punch somebody. Anybody with a literally uncontrollable desire to fuck children is dangerous in the same way a person with a literally uncontrollable desire to punch people they don't like is.

>>9000983
But I didn't post >>9000600. Reading comprehension.
>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault
This is where you're misunderstanding everyone itt. If you lack the self-control to prevent yourself from carrying these actions out you deserve to be punished.

>denies natural human procreation
L M A O
Are condoms harmful? Should masturbation be illegal? No. "Not having babies" is not a morally reprehensible act. I'd also be willing to bet there were people in your family tree and mine, if we go back enough, that got some side-action from the same sex, but it is an incredibly silly argument for you to claim my ancestors would be ashamed of me or for me to say they'd approve. You're really reaching there. And, again, animals cannot say yes or no.
>Fucking faggot.
I'm a straight white male and not ashamed of that fact

>>9000990
I did not argue fuck all about sexuality being uncontrollable, you're conflating me with other posters.
Maybe all of those sexualities are hereditary. Where they come from is irrelevant to the conversation. Homosexuality allows two consenting adults to have sex. Pedophilia, necrophilia, and beastiality, if acted upon, violate the rights of others and are thereby immoral. That's all I'm arguing.

>>9001008

>You can't gain consent from an animal.

One must admit that there's a degree of hypocrisy in this when we regularly kill animals for food / enslave them for our amusement, but fucking them is a step too far in infringing their rights.

>>9001008
(you)

Good job. You are a simple, uneducated poof.

>sexuality is uncontrollable
>but only when referring to the completely controllable sexualities.

You are literally doing nothing.

This is how your logic goes.

IF you say you cannot control your sexuality (as you have) then you cannot control the fact that you are sexually attracted to animals, corpses and children + others.

Outlawing human nature is simply retarded, how can you outlaw something which people have literally no control over, that is illogical. Not drug users, who have a certain measure of control but choose to take the drugs, literally no control, none, 0 (ZERO).

You either believe human beings have no control over their human nature, or you enjoy living in a state where the government has set up rules against literally uncontrollable aspects of human nature (this man was born to be in jail).

Pick one.

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>>9001022
I'm not the original guy, I just hopped on in for mild entertainment.

How can anything be outlawed when there is no free will?

>>9001014
Then being gay is a choice, see where I am going with this?

>>9001018
>Pedophilia, necrophilia, and beastiality, if acted upon, violate the rights of others and are thereby immoral. That's all I'm arguing.

What though? Corpses are dead, they have no rights, animals are the same. Your whole argument literally relies on the semantical meaning of a singular word being 'consent'.

>That's all I'm arguing.
All I am arguing is sexuality is completely controllable. You are getting way to deep into the nitty gritty, are you thinking I am actually serious in this argument and not being facetious?

>>9001022
You're really bad at reading, my dude
He said, and many others have said, that you can't control the attraction. The attraction is not illegal. You CAN control the actions that you take in response.
Drugs are (or can be) a self-destructive habit whose legal status is an entirely different debate with entirely different consequences.

>>9000983
>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault, I was born this way,
You weren't born screwing a child. You were born with a harmful affinity that you can control (or if you have no willpower, you can simply get a castration).

>>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one
An act might have such effect only metaphorically, physically no harm is done. Besides, you imply that homosexuality is unnatural (therefore making it sound repulsive) while offering no support for that claim. You just call hetero sex natural, homo is implied unnatural and that's it, no actual reasoning.

>Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.
It is harmful for the animal and it is very harmful for humanity when diseases spread from animals to humans. Because of furries we now have AIDS.

>>9000600
>On the other, those who want to change their gender take the decision of doing it, it's a product of their mind. It's not physical.
>implying your mind is not a physical object

>>9001045
Pedophilia is literally defined as
>sexual feelings directed towards children.

Not sexual 'actions' sexual 'feelings' meaning, by definition, the attraction itself is illegal. Here is another definition.

>Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children

Being attracted to children is a literal disorder. You are probably getting some weird pedi vibes from me, but you can see how I am just using this to express the retardation of another example, yeah?

>>9000542
>>9000902
kek

>>9000539
I'm interested in this topic. Is Szasz, and this book, the authority on this? Also, I have Foucault's History of Madness and I was wondering if it was worth sloggin through the 800 pages or if the abridged version, Madness and Civilization, will do?

>>9000539
Mental illness as a diagnosis only exists for insurance purposes, nothing more, nothing less.

>>9001052
>You weren't born screwing a man. You were born with a harmful affinity that you can control (or if you have no willpower, you can simply get a castration).

fifty

>you imply that homosexuality is unnatural (therefore making it sound repulsive) while offering no support for that claim
Nope, I said homosexuality doesn't result in the berth of a natural wild between the two participants. The rest is your own projection, senpai.

Again, there is literally nothing wrong with homosexuality, except the fact that more of then then not gay couples will not have naturally born children.

>It is harmful for the animal and it is very harmful for humanity when diseases spread from animals to humans. Because of furries we now have AIDS.

Kek, try again next time?

>>9001065
Paedophilia isn't illegal

>>9001052

They were eating the monkeys, not fucking them.

>>9000539
Chiller please leave

>>9000924
see >>9000966. He's right. You have no control over your sexuality but you have control over your acts. Having sex wih children hurt them, because they are not sexually active like adults are. And they can't give you consent as they don't have a grown up mind and enough experience for it.

>>9000983
>I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals, if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault
That's where you're wrong. You can't help feeling that way but you can actually control what you are doing.

>>9001060
You know what I'm saying, stop acting dumb.

>>9001043
>Then being gay is a choice, see where I am going with this?
Being attracted to someone is not a choice, but you can decide to have sex with that person or not.

>All I am arguing is sexuality is completely controllable.
How? Explain yourself.

>>9001161
This is all well and good, except if you read the thread before posting you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal, regardless of weather or not you take action on you attraction is besides the point, the attraction itself is termed a disorder and these people are expected to change.

Not homosexuals though.

How can you miss the point that hard?

>How? Explain yourself.

Can you seriously not into simple logic? All these pedophiles not having sex with children are explicitly controlling their sexuality. Same goes for those into animal sex and corpse sex, but not homosex.

>>9001290
>if you read the thread before posting you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal
Did I say otherwise?

>All these pedophiles not having sex with children are explicitly controlling their sexuality.
They're controlling their acts, not their sexuality. Why can't you understand the difference?

>>9001290
Paedophillia isn't illegal

>>9001290
>you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal, regardless of weather or not you take action on you attraction is besides the point

Where can you get locked up for this thought-crime? And I don't mean possession of child pornography, I mean getting jailed by mere virtue of attraction.

>>9001317
Because there is literally no difference except the difference you make.

Kek.

I literally have no idea what you are saying.

>>9001083
Nope but anyone diagnosed with pedophilia has ground to be committee dot an insane asylum.

>>9001344
>committee.aninsaneasylum

>>9001339
>Where can you get locked up for this thought-crime? And I don't mean possession of child pornography, I mean getting jailed by mere virtue of attraction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Hendricks

>was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court set forth procedures for the indefinite civil commitment of prisoners convicted of a sex offense whom the state deems dangerous due to a mental abnormality.

>Under Kansas's Sexually Violent Predator Act (Act), any person who, due to "mental abnormality" or "personality disorder", is likely to engage in "predatory acts of sexual violence" can be indefinitely confined.

Since 97.

>>9001344
You are sexually attracted by someone by thinking or looking at him/her => Sexuality

You decide to have sex with someone => Sexual act

Why can't you see the difference?

>>9001360
Because for the purpose of this argument, they have literally no meaning. Except for the one you give them.

Look, you are no longer arguing the point that homosexuals are not expected to change their sexual "attractions" yet a pedophile is, a gay will say "it's how I was born, how dare you expect me to change" yet a pedohile has literally nothing they can say and any arguing would likely result in being committed to an insane asylum, they are both sexual attractions, which according to you, are uncontrollable.

This has literally, nothing to do with acting on these sexual acts as I have said over and over again, that is why I have literally no idea what you are saying. I know what you are getting at, but it's been said before, it's so pointless to this argument, I have literally no idea how it fits, at all.

>>9001374
>homosexuals are not expected to change their sexual "attractions" yet a pedophile is
Of course, and it's normal because we don't want pedophiles harming our children. So we expect them to change even if we don't believe it is possible any other way than chemical castration.

We homosexuals can do as we please between us adults.

>>9001444
Yes, you are illogical retards.

>>9000544
Why do you put homosexuals in the same category as transexuals? Homosexuality is natural and occurs in other animal species. On the other hand, I have yet heard of a monkey who cuts off his penis and demands special pronouns.

>>9001455
Why do you say that?

>>9001374
Homosexuals aren't expected to change because there's no harm in two consenting adults having sex. People expect pedophiles to change their attraction or at the very least not act on it because it directly harms children. Haven't we been over this?

>>9001458
(not him)
Why does homosexuality being "natural" matter in anyway? I have nothing against gay people because they're not harming anybody if they're two consensual adults, so there's no reason for them to "change".

That's why I also don't understand why people react so bad towards trannies. There is no other cure (as of today) for gender dysphoria other than transitioning. And what about trans people that don't chop their genitals and don't demand special pronouns?

why am I finding these kind of threads on /lit/?

are u all imbeciles?

>>9000539
Spook=\=construct

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>>9000544

>mental illnesses are made up

And you people are trying to come off as intelligent.

>>9000600

>(((the mind)))

>>9000539
>I know that the concept of mental illness is a spook,

what a fucking pseud, i'm not even a stemfag but look into neuroscience you retard

>>9001458
Nice appeal to nature you retard.
Please use your head and think about all the things that humans do that has nothing to do with nature, we are not fucking animals who only live on instinct.

>>9003781
Please use your head and think about all the things that humans do that has something to do with nature, we have evolved from animals and we do have instinct.

>>9000924
Not that it answers your question, but I read a study showing that pedophiles have IQs of 70-80 on average and it supposes that their reason for being attracted to children is that they are mentally that much more infantile themselves. I'll see if I can dig it up after work.

>>9000600
>it's about chemistry.

Stopped reading right there.

i hear voices, how is that a spook m8

>>9000600
>homos are perfectly normal
>omg if you (only) like a 14-year-old girl your fucking SICKKKKKKKK

>>9004212
Why would a grown up have a relationship with an inexperienced and immature 14 years old?

You won't be able to have a real conversation with her because you'd be far more experienced than her in life. 14 years old are just boring and stupid.

Only manchildren might love it.

>>9004212
liking 14 year olds isn't paedophilia

>>9000981
Gays literally have parades where their dress makes an underground Halloween party look tame. People support this.

Try again.
>>9004297
My experience says otherwise. Try again.
>>9004299
(only) liking
And I didn't say 'pedophilia'

>>9003636

its not that "mental illnesses" are made up its that they are inherent in human nature

they're merely classified as abnormalities so as to encourage purging them from the world

>>9004212
kys pedo

>>9004308
>My experience says otherwise. Try again.
We can't change the laws because you managed to find one mature 14 years old. The large majority of young teenagers (12-15) can easily be influenced by adults due to their lack of experience in life, which is why we need laws to protect them.

So yeah, you find yourself a nice and mature 14 years old. Good for you. But it doesn't change anything.

>>9004327
I'm not one.
>>9004333
>laws should exist
I'm not speaking of maturity. Maturity is a meme.

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Mental illness has nothing to do with one's thoughts and actions. There is nothing that sets the mentally "ill" apart from the "healthy" as far as qualia and material action. It is entirely based on one's ability (or lack thereof) to provide context and explain one's thoughts and actions in a way that one's society finds acceptable.

>>9004347
>I'm not speaking of maturity.
Yes you are but you just don't understand why we can't allow adults to have relationships with early teenagers. It's a matter of maturity.

>Maturity is a meme.
Suuuuure. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you.

>>9004367
>muh maturity meme
Maturity in the sense that you speak of it is most likely just 'muh bills' and 'muh one-night stands'.

My girl wasn't 'mature'.

>>9004383
>Maturity in the sense that you speak of it is most likely just 'muh bills'
No, I'm talking about relationships. For exemple, having enough experience to be able to say no to someone who might force you to do something you don't want to do.

>My girl wasn't 'mature'.
Alright buddy, you fucked an immature 14 years old. Good for you.

>>9004403
You do know that humans communicate non-verbally too, right? You're just looking for an excuse to disapprove.
>fucked
No I didn't.

>>9004347
yeah you are

>>9004414
>You do know that humans communicate non-verbally too, right?
Yes, you can say no non-verbally. Did I say otherwise?

>>9004425
Imposing statist nonsense because an error in communication is ridiculous. She has always had very obvious body language.

>>9004430
>She has always had very obvious body language.
Alright, maybe that one girl did. What's your point?

>>9004435
My point is that statism is not an answer.

>>9000924
Pedophilia is not a thought crime. Acting upon it is the crime.

>>9004444
For that one girl, maybe.

>>9004460
Statism is never an answer.

>>9004462
It is as long as we people live together.

>>9004473
No it isn't. Stop deluding yourself.

We don't let children consent for the same reason we don't let them make their own medical decisions or sign legally binding contracts.

Nothing magically happens at 18 and in a perfect world we would use apptitude testing to determine when someone can give consent. Some people would never pass the test and some people would pass it earlier. However because flawed testing, grading, and people exist that's not gonna happen. Instead we just put a time limit.

So for the folks who speak of "extremely mature 14 year olds". They're not the reason they can't give consent. It's the literal retard 15 year olds.

I say most of this as someone who did extensive volunteer work in the boys and girls club. I can't really see anyone who has done extensive work with children and young teenagers that even 1 in 100 has the mental capacity for informed consent.

As for animals? Shit man I don't care about animals. Do what ever the fuck you want to them. Don't spread monkey aids though.

>>9004486
>No it isn't.
For you.

>>9004494
>informed consent
A meme. I've also done plenty of work with kids. I've had a direct relationship with one as an adult.
>>9004495
For everyone.

>>9000539
Also for the original topic. What of the elderly, those with dementia and the like.

Personally I have diagnosed with a few things, decided to refuse medication and stopped going to the psychiatrist. She tried to get me to go back because it was "a showing of my extreme paranoia", but she can go fuck herself for trying to medicate me.

>>9004512
>A meme. I've also done plenty of work with kids. I've had a direct relationship with one as an adult.
A meme that protects children from folks like you for the most part. Like I said, some kids mature early, the vast majority do not. I would personally say most 18 year olds aren't mentally capable of consent.

>>9004520
'maturity' is also a meme. Stop reducing relationships to an object exchange.

>>9000539
>mental illness is a spook
Guy who works in mental health and suffers with anxiety, panic attacks and depression here.

It's not a spook.

>>9004430
>being against pedophilia is statist

>>9004547
You don't know what it is, so yes.

>>9004532
Huh you're the one who seems to have an extremely warped view of what a human relationship consists of and are jumping through mental hoops to change definitions to justify what you do. From an outside perspective it sounds like nothing more than exploitation of a weaker party.

>>9004554
nice logic pedo

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>people think paedophilia is a mental illness

No, it actually natural to be attracted to young girls. Back when we were cavemen we would have been fucking girls 11-15 and getting them pregnant. Girls start puberty early and are able to give birth from an early age for a reason.

It is society that deems having sex with young girls wrong, is it really though? Sex is good, if a young girl is willing to have sex and enjoys it, is it really wrong?

Raping young girls and exploiting them is wrong. This I agree with, but if it is consensual and you both enjoy it then why is it wrong?

>>9004604
because paedophiles are ugly, dirty, sweaty and dull

post a picture of yourself to support my point

>>9004604
>going through puberty at 11 was common in the age of malnutrition
>'cave men did it' is ever a good defence regardless

>>9004604
It's a canary in the coalmine for societal decay and I don't think that 11-15 year olds are emotionally or psychologically ready for sex, or sexual relationships.

>>9004604
I'm not linking pedophilia with mental illness. Still saying diddling a 12 year old is generally not a great thing to do.

>Raping young girls and exploiting them is wrong. This I agree with, but if it is consensual and you both enjoy it then why is it wrong?
Mostly the fact that a child or young teenager is extremely easy to coerce and manipulate. That's the issue. This is the reason we don't let them make medical decisions, sign legally binding contracts, or give consent. Children and young teenagers are essentially mentally disabled by their own developing minds.

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>>9004609
Nice stereotyping.

>cave men did it' is ever a good defence regardless
People are calling it a mental illness, it isn't. It is natural instinct.

>>9004615
>I don't think that 11-15 year olds are emotionally or psychologically ready for sex, or sexual relationships.
Anon, I think you will find that they are. They do it more now than ever, just look at all the young girls posting naked pictures and videos of themselves.

>>9004639
>Anon, I think you will find that they are. They do it more now than ever, just look at all the young girls posting naked pictures and videos of themselves.
>children posting naked pictures of themselves is a sign of psychological maturity
Wait what?

Have you spent much time around young teenagers? Perhaps one in a hundred has a shred of mental maturity, the vast majority are essentially handicapped.

>>9004639
>it's good because people did it in the past
>it's good because people are doing it more than in the past

>>9004639
>Anon, I think you will find that they are. They do it more now than ever, just look at all the young girls posting naked pictures and videos of themselves.
Doesn't mean that they know what they are doing, or are not being coerced into doing it.

>>9001021
to be honest, we cross the consent boundary at bringing ever more of certain species into the world, even if you can allow for killing animals from self defense or out of survival needs. it's the same problem with making human children and we should stop it or at least eat more of them faster, human babies included.

>>9001042
any that is outlawed would necessarily be outlawed in a deterministic system. this is akin saying "how can't unicorns exist when there is no free will".

>>9004639
>Anon, I think you will find that they are. They do it more now than ever, just look at all the young girls posting naked pictures and videos of themselves.
I can't see your logic here, like at all. The fact that they do it means they are mature enough to understand the implications of doing so? Shit you can't be that stupid, can you?

>>9004674
>>9004673
>>9004650
>>9004649
>>9004648
Wow. You people are idiots.

I think that, in psychology today, the different opinions on this matter can be felt more when comparing psychoanalysis with other more forms of approaching the situation of the patient like that of psychiatry for example. Most psychologists (of any given line of work), draw their practice through a combination of various sources, which is something to keep in mind, but when a psychoanalyst looks at a subject's problem, he or she understands very well that we can not draw a line between normality and illness in a simple way, and so the problem is dealt with in terms of sufferings and discontempts, rather than comparing the symptoms with any universal frame of reference for normal functioning. Specially when it comes to the DSM and how much it changed over time. Now with DSM-V, a lot of psychologists are dropping it as a standard for anything, because everyone can be said to be ill of something, if you check the symptoms. The approach can be entirely different, because psychoanalysis does not deal with a direct transformation of the mind as some people think, but with a transformation in relationships.

If a kid is not doing well in school and evidently you can find a problem in that kid's attention span, you can either medicate that child to adjust to school, or you can investigate further how this child relates to his school, to his parents at home, to his colleagues, and so on. Maybe it is the environment that needs to change, which is a problem a medicated classroom could conceal, or maybe it is a matter of attitude, either of the child or the parents, for example. Or even something more big and public, like how technology might be affecting kids on this matter, which also needs to be investigated.

Even things like depression are extremely debatable. While you can find factual physiological evidence for it in the brain's ability to produce certain hormones, or make certain connections, the biggest issue is to understand that this condition does not arrive from nowhere, but from the state of relationships between that person and the world. It can be anything from traumatic or discouraging events, struggle with parents or with adapting to a new place, stress for various reasons, grief combined with oppressive obligations and big expectations, all mushed together. We all have depressive episodes, and you can't medicate someone who is grieving over a death, for example, there is something to be gained from this sadness. Depression sets in when it is already a too deep of a hole that you can't climb back on your own. But the true point is, who could draw this line if not the very person when this person decides to see a doctor(of any kind)? In certain instances, medication might be necessary, but it is not there to fix any issues and there is a variety of side effects to consider as well. What will make that person better is to change the way that person relates to the world.

cont

>>9004679
not an argument

>>9004679
Not an argument bruh

>>9004683 cont

On one side you have those who don't believe in mental illnesses, because they think it is just something invented that could just be undone if that person were to simply "man up", "get a job", "go to the gym". On the other side, you have a medical and scientific approach which understands that there is a considerable difference to that person's brain, so that the "weight" of certain problems and the effectiveness of these suggested solutions are not the same. Psychoanalysis is a third approach, that criticizes the first group for disregarding the suffering of the subject and for being too forward with pre-made solutions that are, in fact, definitely not universal. It also criticizes the second group, for taking the focus out of people's relationships, seeing the illness as something that can not bring valuable lessons and even sometimes taking the responsibility from the patient entirely, as if there was nothing for this person to do about the "biological fact" of their own condition.

To psychoanalysis, not only there is something to be done, for example, when it comes to depression, but what the subject does to life is precisely the gateway to a new relationship with people and things. At the same time, it does not expect this to be easy, understanding the person's time to transform, neither it expects that it must be done alone, including the help of medication too if the case calls for it. The medication is prescribed by a different person, with the indication of the analyst, so it does not undermine the process of transference within analysis.

The advantage of this position, is that it respects the singularity of each individual and does not overlook the context. It also dodges a normative approach, just like the one that thought homosexuality was an illness in the past, or that unmaried women were insane, or the one that, today, expect the same attention span from every kid. The reference is the suffering of the individual. If there is no issue, there is nothing to fix. When it comes to more severe disorders, it can work within a given household, it can function throughout the relationships of those involved in the situation, never disregarding the position of the individual within those relationships.

It's very common to diagnose oneself. Even more common it is to read about some symptoms and see yourself in them, most psychology students go through this in their studies. That happens because we seek an explanation for the conditions of our life, it's comforting to have an answer that could include our difficulties or our thoughts. We also don't understand them as well as we think, not only the symptoms in a book may be stretching, but also what you think you have might be precipitated. For instance, a lot of people that think they have low self-esteem may have a high self-esteem that clashes with reality and sees itself frustrated. It's more complicated than what we see at first sight. Hence why psychoanalysis exists.

>>9004679
No, I just think that fucking children is almost always an evil act- unless you are within a few years of the child themselves.

>>9004679
>unicorns are real
I'm not into determinism personally, but I'd like some empiricism on this at least please, if you would like me to think you're not an dumbass who fell for your parents lies at the petting zoo. they prob lied about your pets "going to a farm" too, anon.

>>9004562
A relationship isn't an object exchange, ''''experience'''' does not determine one's ability to make a decision. It is only exploitation if it is an object exchange.
>>9004609
And gays all perpetually have a dragon dildo shoved up their ass and spread HIV by eye-contact.
>>9004615
You have never been in a relationship with one, so you are just pulling it out of your ass.

>>9004726
>It is only exploitation if it is an object exchange.
not an argument

>>9004726
>you can't judge a pedophile until you diddle a little girl yourself
You can't be serious.

>>9004726
I may not have been in a relationship with one, but I was and knew 11-15 year olds and none of the hundreds of people I knew or were friends with were mature enough to have romantic and sexual relationships. Not one.

>>9004739
Yes it is. An object exchange relationship is a very real thing.
>>9004746
>14
>little girl
>relationships
>diddling
>>9004750
You barely knew them.

>>9004726
Bud I work with kids. I don't have to diddle one to know they don't have the maturity.

>>9004759
>Yes it is.
>An object exchange relationship is a very real thing.
non sequitur
>>14
>>little girl
in this context yes. also you talked about 11 year olds earlier

>>9004763
I also have. Maturity is a meme, stop trying to quantify the quality of somebody.
>>9004772
I never spoke of 11-year-olds. There are 43 posters in this thread, you know.

>>9004759
>you barely knew them
you can't know that. And, in any case, seeing and talking and interacting with 300+ individuals over the course of four or five years gives you a pretty good idea of their level of emotional maturity.

>>9004793
Not at all.

>>9004797
That's your opinion, chum, but please stop defending the indefensible.

>>9000600
Fucked up chemistry, you mutated freak. I don't see anything wrong with you or your mutation but don't deny yourself what you are: an unnatural slight on the evolutionary chain and anti-humanist by natural order.

>>9004803
>it's indefensible because it conflicts with my ideology
Stop reducing my long-standing relationship to something manipulative.

>>9004807
>falling for the naturalism meme
sad!

>>9004808
stop being alive pedo

>>9004808
>long standing
>she's 14 now
Well when did it start?

>>9004816
She was 14 3 years ago.

>>9004807
There's nothing wong with being gay. Homosexuality has existed for as long as we can remember, and yet the human race is still not extinct.

Most people were, are and will remain straight, and that is the only thing that matters.

>>9004818
And you claimed that you didn't fuck her after 3 years. Sad!

>>9004808
No, it's indefensible because almost every paedophilic relationship is one with rape, manipulation and abuse at its core. Just because you're the exception (even though I doubt that), doesn't make such relationships good, or healthy.
Excuse me for not wanting children to be traumatised.

>>9004823
The age of consent here is 16.
>>9004826
>pedophilic
What

Homosexual relationships aren't healthy either by that reasoning.

>>9004832
>Homosexual relationships aren't healthy either by that reasoning.
incorrect
kys shitposter

>>9004832
>Homosexual relationships aren't healthy either by that reasoning.

No, because the overwhelming majority of gay, sexual relationships have consent at their core. Not rape, manipulation and abuse. You're just clutching at straws now.

>>9004840
>one thing is good but something else is bad for arbitrary reasons
>>9004844
>consent
Still not defined.

>>9004854
>arbitrary
incorrect
kys shitposter

>>9004858
t. slave

>>9004864
t.pedo

>>9004854
Voluntary Acquiescence to the proposal of another; the act or result of reaching an accord; a concurrence of minds; actual willingness that an act or an infringement of an interest shall occur.
Consent is an act of reason and deliberation. A person who possesses and exercises sufficient mental capacity to make an intelligent decision demonstrates consent by performing an act recommended by another. Consent assumes a physical power to act and a reflective, determined, and unencumbered exertion of these powers. It is an act unaffected by Fraud, duress, or sometimes even mistake when these factors are not the reason for the consent. Consent is implied in every agreement.
Parties who terminate litigation pursuant to a consent judgment agree to the terms of a decision that is entered into the court record subsequent to its approval by the court.
In the context of rape, submission due to apprehension or terror is not real consent. There must be a choice between resistance and acquiescence. If a woman resists to the point where additional resistance would be futile or until her resistance is forcibly overcome, submission thereafter is not consent.

A child cannot consent because they do not "posses...sufficient mental capacity to make an intelligent decision" to choose to have sex.

>>9004865
>14
>pedo
sure you aren't just jealous?
>>9004872
Arbitrary, Stop objectifying relationships. I'm not even speaking of having sex, by the way.

>>9004881
>>14
>>pedo
yes
>sure you aren't just jealous?
yes

kys

>>9004881
>this fucking pedo trying to convince himself he's not a pedo

>>9000539
>the concept of mental illness is a spook, it's so obviously just made up bullshit
If schizophrenics who experience hallucinations and hand-flapping, autistic savants aren't mentally ill, what are they?
I assume you accept these but reject more minor "mental disorders". Many such disorders appear to have a common cause and empirically verifiable parallels to their extreme counterparts, such as sensory hypersensitivity in people with mild autism spectrum disorders.

>>9004893
>14
>pedo
An adolescent is not a child.

>>9004899
>what determines whether someone can consent is the maturity of their body, not their mind
sure thing pedo

>>9004899
>she's 14
>I'm not a pedo
>14 is not pedo
>not pedo
>14
>not
>pedo
Keep going mate, it's gonna work.

>>9004903
>maturity
doesn't exist
>consent
meme

>>9004908
>The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.

>>9004913
bih i'm fucking pussy and all you're doing is hating

>>9004913
Stop memeing then. Adolescents are not children.

>>9004908
Ok, so suppose someone you love gets raped, or you yourself get raped. Do you think that that's fair game? Do you think that that is good for society as a whole?

Consent is the groundwork of how human interactions function. An exchange of any sort has implicit consent as well as implicit trust. You're just an edgelord.

>>9001074
abridged will do

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>>9004918
>>9004908
>Things I dislike or don't understand are memes

>>9004919
>raped
Consent does not exist in the sense you think. Stop reducing relationships to object exchanges.
>>9004922
I fully understand, and I understand that they are memes.

>>9004918
>what determines whether someone can consent is the maturity of their body, not their mind
sure thing pedo

>>9004928
Ok, explain how it is a meme m8.

>>9004928
Do you think that, in general, it is good when people do not suffer at the expense of others?

>implying college girls have mentally matured beyond 14
>implying women can be mature

>>9004930
Maturity does not exist.
>>9004931
It's an idea that has infiltrated the modern mind.
>>9004938
She hasn't suffered, though.

>>9004943
I wasn't talking about you. I was speaking in general. Is it or is it not a good thing when people do not suffer at the expense of others?

also
>she hasn't suffered, though
you don't know that :^)

>>9004949
Yes I do know that.

>>9004973
You know that about as much as you know about my relationships with my friends from primary school- that is to say, not at all.

>>9004943
>Maturity does not exist.
for you

>>9004982
>i don't know if my wife is suffering
k

>>9004943
>It's an idea that has infiltrated the modern mind.
Explain how the ideas are not correct.

>>9004986
You haven't answered my question. Is it or is it not a good thing when people do not suffer at the expense of others?

>>9004988
Because it's one person's popular delusion.
>>9004993
Irrelevant.

>>9004994
>Because it's one person's popular delusion.
That isn't an argument. Explain your reasoning of why the ideas are not true.

>>9004994
I think it is when the person suffering is your "wife".

>>9004999
>arguments are good
>>9005003
She isn't suffering. We're legally married and have a newborn daughter.

>>9005010
>>arguments are good
So you're refusing to present any reasoning and expect others to empathize with your position? That's moronic. You have to be a troll.

>>9005014
>you aren't submitting to my popular delusion? you must be a troll

>>9005017
who are you quoting

>>9005010
You can hate your spouse. You can beat your spouse. You can torture your spouse. Just because you've forced her to marry you and have forced her to have your child, does not mean she isn't suffering

>>9005024
(you)
>>9005025
>forced her
Stop deluding yourself.

>>9005017
No, I'm not faulting you for having a different opinion. I'm faulting you to refusing to defend it and calling you an idiot. Refusing to defend one's opinion makes you a moron.

>>9005031
>you
why were you replying to someone else then
are you a retard

>>9005032
Why would I defend it against somebody that won't budge?

>>9005031
Your wife is suffering because you raped her and now is legally bound to you. I really think you should do the world a service and kill yourself.

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I don't know why you're still shouting at that retard, just let this thread die

>>9005041
How do you expect someone to budge if you don't offer any reasoning? You're expecting someone to change when you aren't willing to offer a reason for them to change.

It's expecting something for nothing.

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>>9000539
>mental illness a spook
But it is a useful one. Thomas Szasz should have been committed the first time he opened his mouth with his babble.

>>9005045
>raped her
No I didn't.

Her mother had to consent to the marriage, you know.
>>9005049
>retard
epin
>>9005057
I have explained why 'maturity' doesn't exist. No one wants to hear.

>>9005072
>I have explained why 'maturity' doesn't exist
no you haven't

>>9005072
>I have explained why 'maturity' doesn't exist. No one wants to hear.
Except you haven't. You've repeated that it doesn't exist, but you haven't actually offered any reasoning.

>>9005072
>I have explained why 'maturity' doesn't exist. No one wants to hear.
Except you haven't done so?

>>9005077
>>9005081
Yes I have. Maturity is just something attached to a person to quantify them.

>>9005086
That isn't an argument. You are literally just repeating "maturity doesn't exist" without any reasoning.

So we basically have a shitskin telling us that he married a 14 years old.

This thread is glorious.

>>9005093
That is an argument. One calls one that they dislike 'immature'. It's normative nonsense.
>>9005104
16, the age of consent here (and marriage when parental consent is provided)

I am not a shitskin.

>>9005121
Again that isn't an argument. You're saying because lack of maturity is an insult it doesn't exist. That's moronic.

>>9005129
>its wrong because i dont like it
typical normative ethics

>>9005130
Again you haven't offered any reasoning.

Because immaturity can be used as an insult does not mean it does not exist. Maturity is a qualifier, this is a true statement, in no way does this mean it is not real.

>>9005121
"Hardly has the mind reached the point of maturity, the body begins to weaken."
Montesquieu

>>9004656
the consent model of interaction totally breaks down when applied to non-humans
it doesn't even work well when applied to humans
>tfw drunk sex is rape
stop economizing biological activity

>>9005136
It's an artificial qualifier.
Stop trying to quantify people. Stop reducing a relationship to an object exchange. I'm not even really attracted to my wife anymore, but I love her and want to raise our daughter together.
>>9005137
>french

>>9004895
Schizophrenics dont experience 3d hallucinations its biologically impossible to experience those. An lsd trip is much more intense than anything the mind can conjure by itself and you dont experience those delusions and being intellectually dishonest and victimhood emotional suffering is however real. There's human strength and human weakness similar to so called drug addiction even heroin withdrawl isnt that bad you'll just be down and deprerssed until your brain can adjust to un-influenced stimuli.

This thread proves that mental illness is real.

>>9005150
Wow, you're actually retarded. You still have offered up no argument besides saying "it's artificial" and shouting reductionism.

>>9005176
>you're retarded
A simple nonsense cannot be reduced, it is already too simple. You're the one reducing relationships to object exchanges and 'muh bills' talk.

>>9005200
>MATURITY IS 'MUH BILLS'
Stop embarassing yourself you fucking shitskin pedo.

>>9005200
Muh bills has never been part of the discussion. It's that before a point an individual is unable to make decisions for themselves. Often this is referred to as immaturity. It's the reason a child or teenager can't sign legal documents.

>>9005207
I'm not dark at all, neither is she.
>>9005208
'muh bills' is a synecdoche for a much larger problem.
>adolescents can't make decisions for *arbitrary reasons*

>>9005226
Should a 11 year old be able to sign a legally binding document or make their own medical decisions?

>>9005229
They already can get a sex change.

A 14-year-old isn't an 11-year-old.

>>9005142
not really, since plant or mineral consent is as up for grabs as human consent if we're not already loading the issue of consent with wholly and only human relevance.
and if we are loading the issue as wholly and only human, it has to be implemented there.

that aside, drunk sex is rape has a good precedent but it's definitely applied as it is in its corollaries; it has the same origins as drunken driving being a crime and drunk and disorderly being a crime which doesn't get you off murder. iirc aristotle's the first to come out with the premise but it goes something like "the person who deprives himself of reason to the point of unknowingly committing a crime is twice a criminal, first for the crime of neglecting their duty to the state to act as a reasoned citizen, and second for the crime they committed as a result of the first negligence.
the problem with applying this now is that athenians had no problem considering you a whore if you got drunk enough to get raped, and would even deprive you of your citizenship for lowering yourself to such a state of submission to another.

since only men could be citizens at the time, obviously there weren't many women complaining about that.

having sex with a woman without a marriage on the other hand allowed the owner of the woman rights to kill the interloper, to ransom him for money, and those were so popular amongst both men and wives that they later revised the law to indicate that if you wanted to kill the man, you also had to kill the wife, or at least act like you were mad at her a little. suddenly fewer people charged adultery repeatedly and not because the wives died.

if we implemented it now as all citizens, of course there'd be complaints. if we implement the women as property scheme, rather than responsible citizens one, now we'd also have complaints, and possibly a resurgence of the adultery scam. it does seem we're unfortunately stuck at thinking it's okay to charge women and men with drunk driving but not with drunken sex, which, while the average of the two extremes, probably would not make aristotle happy at all.

>>9005249
>definitely applied as it is in its corollaries
definitely IS NOT applied

>>9005226
>I'm not dark at all, neither is she.
Only a shitskin or a white trash mother would let an adult marry her teenage daughter. Which one is she? Which one are you?

>>9005238
So where do you draw your arbitrary line in the sane?

>They already can get a sex change.
And this is a failure of society.

>>9005260
Neither. Stop being a reductionist.
>>9005263
No line. I'm not a statist.

>>9005265
>No line. I'm not a statist.
Ok, so an 11 year old should be able to give consent. There is no line.

>>9005238
>They already can get a sex change.
No they can't, they can only be prescribed puberty blockers and hormones when they're in their teens. You can't obtain surgery until 18, even with parental consent

>>9005238
>They already can get a sex change.
Incorrect, not even with parental consent.

>>9005268
Consent is a meme.
>>9005273
>>9005281
Same crap.

>>9005288
>Consent is a meme.
Ok, so why do you say it is ok for a 14 year old and not for an 11 year old. You are drawing an arbitrary line as well, just at a different imaginary place you try and justify to yourself.

>>9005265
>I'm not a statist.
How could you not in a 7 billion people world? This is madness.

>>9005238
>They already can get a sex change.
where?

>>9005298
>being too lazy to learn 7 billion names so you only learn 196
come on, jeff, be more personable.

>>9005297
>objectifying relationships

>>9005324
You're not answering the question and hiding behind buzzwords.

>>9004451
Pedophilia is explicity a thought crime, when you act on your pedophilia you become a child molester.

>>9005326
It's not a buzzword. It is 'okay' because there is a relationship.

>>9005330
no because it's not a crime

>>9005330
You can't be jailed for being a pedophile, just acting upon pedophilic tendencies.

>>9005332
You still haven't answered the question. If you are in a relationship with an 11 year old is it ok because there is a relationship, under your logic? Or an 8 year old, or 5 year old, or toddler?

I am following your line of logic that because there is a relationship its fine.

>>9005338
A 14-year-old is an adolescent. An adolescent can be in a mutual relationship.

Hahahahaha there's a guy here equating pedophilia with homosexuality

>>9005333
>>9005334

You can be indefinitely confined in a mental institution. It's a literal crime, if anyone finds out.

>>9005347
not the definition of a crim

>>9005344
>they're different because muh memes

>>9005354
Kek, what the fuck are you even doing, you can not post you know?

>>9005343
And what is your reasoning on this?

>>9005372
An adolescent is physically developed.

>>9005377
Not entirely.

>>9005394
to the point of fecundity, though, which is the key point

>>9005394
Enough to have real desires, both romantic and sexual.

>>9001458
This is actually the correct answer
Didn't expect to see it in a garbage thread like this, though

>>9005436
>any thread that challenges my ideology is garbage! what fucking year is it?!!?

>>9005510
Challenging an ideology by acting like a retard doesn't make it good.

>>9000539
>mental illness isn't real
>my schizophrenic relative untreated can't string together a coherent sentence, shits himself, has ended up hospitalized when his paranoia is extreme and thinks every breath is a conspiracy against him
>...shows massive improvement with standard psychiatric treatment of therapy and medication, which critically operates on the axiom that mental illness is real.

...fuck off OP

>>9005151
>Schizophrenics dont experience 3d hallucinations its biologically impossible to experience those.

What do you mean 3d hallucinations? I experience 3d dreams and I have taken datura and hallucinated a fuck ton for like 2 days, that includes 3d hallucinations.

>An lsd trip is much more intense than anything the mind can conjure by itself

lol no

>>9005151
> An lsd trip is much more intense than anything the mind can conjure by itself

How did you determine that to be true?/Source/Prove it

>>9005522
>retard
anything i dont like is bad stop wanting to be in a relationship with somebody that isn't a flabby jaded cunt

>>9005151
lmao

>>9005611
This
OP you're operating on a premise that is simply false unless you are using made-up, nonsense definitions of mental illness

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>>9000544
>"Foucault is so great xD."

The pseuds on lit will never cease to amaze me with their ability to disdain thinkers which they lack even the basic facilities to enter into a conversation with/on.

>>9005151
You do realize Tulpas are a real thing right, and that's just a manifest of a normal mind.