>he doesn't know Greek, Latin, French, Spanish, Italian,

This is true.

>Look mom, I posted it again!

I speak three languages. Spanish, Portagues, and Brasilian.

Thinking about maybe taking a crack at Italian, but I'm pretty much a language genius [as demonstrated by my trilingualism] and I really don't see the point of piling another one on. Hell, I could probably do something super human like tackling Italian AND French and I'd probably get it done no prob.

>>8866277
Are portuguese and brasilian different? I honestly have no idea.

>>8866277
>Spanish, Portagues, and Brasilian.
you know one language namefag

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>>8866277
>I'm pretty much a language genius [as demonstrated by my trilingualism
>2 of them are almost the same, the other one is really close

Stop posting LARPers.

>some academic dude dedicates his entire life to the study a foreign language, learns it's culture, conducts linguistic research, reads countless materials
>in his late 50s he produces a wonderful translation of a foreign book that carefully takes into account subtle nuances, historical and cultural differences
vs
>spend few years clicking icons on duolingo
>now you can sort of stumble your way through the novel

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>>8866090
>Don't speak any languages aside from English
>Don't care to learn any

I'm on the fence about picking up Japanese.

>>8866090
You'd have to be 16 years old or something if you think translators or people reading translations are somehow unaware that the literal words don't get translated 100% and are works of interpretation. And you'd have to be a retard to think reading some books is enough justification for the time investment of learning a language. As long as you live in a place where you never have to use the language in conversation, you're a dilettante and a fool.

>>8866277
Senpai three dialects of the same language.

>>8866346
>learning Greek and Latin to be able to actually understand and see the beauty of classical literature in their original language makes you a dilettante
Have fun with your translated Homer, pleb. Some people like to get the full effect.

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Which language should I learn? I'm on my summer break and don't know what to do more than that. I'm between German and Russian.

>>8866375
I'm sure, being wise and learned in these languages, you could easily explain their beauty and superiority over pathetic translations.
Here's the opening of Plato's Republic in english and greek

>kατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύkωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ kαὶ ἅμα τὴν ἑορτὴν βουλόμενος θεάσασθαι τίνα τρόπον ποιήσουσιν ἅτε νῦν πρῶτον ἄγοντες. kαλὴ μὲν οὖν μοι kαὶ ἡ τῶν ἐπιχωρίων πομπὴ ἔδοξεν εἶναι, οὐ μέντοι ἧττον ἐφαίνετο πρέπειν ἣν οἱ Θρᾷkες ἔπεμπον.
>προσευξάμενοι δὲ kαὶ θεωρήσαντες ἀπῇμεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ. kατιδὼν οὖν πόρρωθεν ἡμᾶς οἴkαδε ὡρμημένους Πολέμαρχος ὁ Κεφάλου ἐkέλευσε δραμόντα τὸν παῖδα περιμεῖναί ἑ kελεῦσαι. kαί μου ὄπισθεν ὁ παῖς λαβόμενος τοῦ ἱματίου, kελεύει ὑμᾶς, ἔφη, Πολέμαρχος περιμεῖναι. kαὶ ἐγὼ μετεστράφην τε kαὶ ἠρόμην ὅπου αὐτὸς εἴη. οὗτος, ἔφη, ὄπισθεν προσέρχεται: ἀλλὰ περιμένετε. ἀλλὰ περιμενοῦμεν, ἦ δ᾽ ὃς ὁ Γλαύkων.

>I went down yesterday to the Piraeus with Glaucon the son of Ariston, that I might offer up my prayers to the goddess; and also because I wanted to see in what manner they would celebrate the festival, which was a new thing. I was delighted with the procession of the inhabitants; but that of the Thracians was equally, if not more, beautiful. When we had finished our prayers and viewed the spectacle, we turned in the direction of the city; and at that instant Polemarchus the son of Cephalus chanced to catch sight of us from a distance as we were starting on our way home, and told his servant to run and bid us wait for him. The servant took hold of me by the cloak behind, and said: Polemarchus desires you to wait.
>I turned round, and asked him where his master was.
>There he is, said the youth, coming after you, if you will only wait.
>Certainly we will, said Glaucon

I'm genuinely curious, since the difference must be SO stark you should be able to point out what does the original have that the translation doesn't. There difference in quality must be huge and easy to see as to warrant several years to be spent on learning greek.

>>8866477
Oh that's easy. The Greek is a lot more squiggly.

>>8866489
Hold your horses. To the Greeks, our language probably looked squiggly.

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>when he refuses to learn a language to read a single masterpiece of literature

>>8866498
more like gay and round
The Greek script is objectively more squiggly

>>8866346
This. If you aren't absorbing the culture along with the language, it's a waste of time

>>8866515
What about russian squiggliness?

>Bчepa я хoдил в Пиpeй вмecтe c Глaвкoнoм, cынoм Apиcтoнa, пoмoлитьcя бoгинe, a кpoмe тoгo, мнe хoтeлocь пocмoтpeть, кaким oбpaзoм cпpaвят тaм ee пpaздник, – вeдь дeлaeтcя этo тeпepь впepвыe. Пpeкpacнo былo, пo-мoeмy, тopжecтвeннoe шecтвиe мecтных житeлeй, oднaкo нe мeнee yдaчным oкaзaлocь и шecтвиe фpaкийцeв. Mы пoмoлилиcь, нacмoтpeлиcь и пoшли oбpaтнo в гopoд.
>Увидeв издaли, чтo мы oтпpaвилиcь дoмoй, Пoлeмapх, cын Кeфaлa, вeлeл cвoeмy cлyгe дoгнaть нac и пoпpocить, чтoбы мы eгo пoдoждaли. Cлyгa, тpoнyв мeня cзaди зa плaщ, cкaзaл:
>– Пoлeмapх пpocит вac пoдoждaть eгo.
>Я oбepнyлcя и cпpocил, гдe жe oн.
>– A вoн oн идeт cюдa, вы yж, пoжaлyйcтa, пoдoждитe.
>– Пoжaлyйcтa, мы пoдoждeм, – cкaзaл Глaвкoн

>>8866530
I can actually read Russian but I have to say their alphabet is pretty ugly. Looks like all caps, and several letters are just retarded, especially д and б and ж. Nice cursive though.


I'm thinking you have no idea what the world 'squiggly' means to be blunt anon

>>8866277
You didn't realize you're speaking English, so congrats, you speak four.

>>8866277
Obvious bait.

>>8866090
I speak german and english
Theres literally nothing worth reading that isnt written originally in those languages

>>8866420

Russian better 4 da bookz

>>8866530

I've been learning for about 6 months and understand most of that. I'm quite satisfied with myself

>>8866831
Russian literature is terrible.

>>8866090
None of these languages have any worthwhile literature.

>>8866277
fuck you cunt
i speak english, american, canadian, australian, anglo-indian and even more languages
get on my LEVEL

>>8866882
>anglo-indian
get out brownie

>>8866939
I'm sick of you British people telling us Anglo-Indians what a real English person is. I've been to London and Manchester and you're nowhere near as English as us in New Delhi and Mumbai. In your bars I've witnessed you watching German football teams and listening to American bands with not a bottle of beer or kidney pie in sight. Come to India to be reminded what being English is all about. It seems you've forgotten true English pride.

Fuck you, op. I know spanish and italian, and am now learning french

>>8866090
>HE DOESN'T KNOW JAPANESE
What are you a fucking casual? How are you going to read superior Japanese literature and philosophy?

>>8866420
>learning a language over a summer break
Learning a language will take 5+ years for fluency

>>8867231
Americans don't know second languages, they learn a few sentences, bit of grammar and words and think they can speak a language, even though they can't even hold a normal conversation.

I have never met an American that is fluent in another language.

>>8867218
>I'm sick of you 4chan users telling us redditors what a real memester is. I've been to /pol/ and the comments section of youtube and you're nowhere near as ironic as us in r/spacedicks and r/worldnews. In your threads I've witnessed you discussing video games and the american presidential election without ironically calling each other "kind sir' or ironically insulting each other. Come to reddit to be reminded what being ironic is all about. It seems you've forgotten true meme power.

>>8867246
Now that you mention it, when i was a freshman in college, we had this talk with an american and argentinian accountants. The american had perfect spanish, you could only guess an accent by the r's and t's

>>8867278
If you don't speak spanish I'm sure you don't hear the mistakes he made, especially in a language like Spanish where everything sounds very similar. I live already 5 years in Chile and a lot of Americans I meet think they can speak Spanish but make constantly mistakes when speaking, hell I can't blame them, I still make some from time to time, especially talking about complicated topics.

>>8867246
excluding Spanish speaking people im guessing

>>8867297
Excluding double nationalities of course.

>>8867241
I don't really want fluency though. Also summer breaks are like more than 3 months so I guess it's a good enough to just learn basic stuff.

>>8867378
Reading works of literature in another language without fluency will leave you coming away with less than reading a translation.

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>>8867415
OK. So how much time will it take me to learn German in a fluent way?

>>8867425
Go live there for the rest of your life. Even then you will forever be an outsider to their cultural sphere since you weren't brought up in it though.

The only language you will ever master is your native language. Everything else is compromise at best.

>>8867246
This is very correct. I knew some americans who live in Brazil for years and they speak Portuguese like a 2 years old kid.

Yo, what's a good textbook for Latin? I got Wheelock's (6th edition). Any others I should be on the lookout for?

>>8867295
I tought it was implied, my bad; spanish is my first language

ITT Faggots fall for OP's bait

>>8867436
Some of the best translators are foreigners. Arthur Waley is one of the most highly regarded translators of Classical Chinese and Classical Japanese texts, despite never visiting China or Japan.

>I don't read exclusively in babylonian

Plebs all of you

>>8866477
Just try reading it allowed.

German > French > Russian

Currently most of the way through German. Can I realistically obtain decent reading ability in all these languages within 3 years? My biggest concern is Cyrillic, as that seems to take a lot of time to learn.

>>8867944
>Cyrillic, as that seems to take a lot of time to learn
Why?
It's literally just 33 letters.
Most are the same as in the Latin or Greek alphabets. Really, Cyrillic is just a form of Greek.
If learning a simple alphabet is your "biggest concern" in learning a language you really have no idea what you're doing.

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what are the benefits of learning german?

>>8868065
Reading Goethe

>>8867944

It takes a day at most.

What you really should be worried about is verb aspect. It's extremely unintuitive and I'm told foreigners almost never totally nail it.

>>8867944
Cyrillic is actually easy to learn

>>8867246
What about the number of "Americans" in California who don't speak English at all?

I have a few American friends who learned English as their second language, and Spanish as their first

>>8867944
Anon, cyrillic is probably the easiest alphabet there is.

B-but I learned English desu

>>8867729
Most of them are since you have to have full mastery over the language the end product appears in.

>>8866286
yes, similar but different

my first language is brazilian portuguese, i can read some simple texts in portuguese from portugal but i struggle with dictionary and some sentences construction. i have no ideia how to speak it though, can only read (this also happens with spanish)

What's the better language to learn, russian or german?

>>8868065
none really
You've got Goethe, then a whole bunch of second-rate Romantic lyric poets, the Brother's Grimm, and German idealism
not worth it tbqh

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How do I learn Greek?

>>8866090
I speak french, english, spanish, japanese and I'm working on russian. Not gonna need any more languages.

>italian
>german
>greek
Not relevant at all

>>8869318
>Italian
>what is Renaissance literature
>German
>what is Romanticism
>Greek
>what is Homer, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus, Sappho, Pindar, Hesiod, and Theocritus

I'm an American and I am fluent in English and French, have reading ability in Spanish and Italian, and am going to begin learning German next semester

learning Greek and Latin, but I need some tips for Greek. Whats the best way to just get new vocab in my head? It's all so alien (obviously) unlike latin

>>8866319
this guy gets it

>>8866882
>australian
Australian here. Can guarantee you can't.

>>8866319
underrated contribution

>>8866530
russian isn't squiggly it's pointy you dumb cunt

You need to learn Sanskrit and Classical Chinese too

>>8871185
i opened my post with cunt so I'd like to see you try u cheeky bugger

>>8872913
Stop trying so hard. Australian English goes beyond the use of profanities.

>>8866346
Says the monolingual.

Reading books means you can read news, international shitposting, international p0rn websites, and anything else. If you're a NEET there's virtually no better skill to invest in.

>>8866477
The words have symbolism, etymology and represent other shit you chimp.

I read Japanese. When you read souseki's kokoro in English you completely miss the pile of emotions the main character experiences which all have the kokoro kanji in it, which removes the emphasis the author naturally gives them. All languages do this. Try taking some other language translations of English stuff and google translating them back to English. You're reading sparknotes if it's not in the original.

>>8869318
wow, this must be next level pleb bait

>>8866090
Translation is a fine art.

>>8872960
No language is indispensable, not even English.

Foreign stuff is not unique. You won't miss out vital things. Many major books are already translated anyway.

Thus, with only one (reasonably used) language, you still experience most of what life has to offer.

Disclaimer: I speak 4 languages fluently and can get by with 4 others, but I'd be just as fine with my mother tongue (not English).

>>8869262
>oops, and all German philosophy

>>8873083
>everything written in this post
same.

>>8873083
Yes they are. Each language has a cultural context and communication style that goes with it which isolates and preserves its peculiarities.

Great so you can experience most of what life has to offer. If that's so great why are you on here? Most isn't good enough. You can experience most of what life has to offer by not reading too, clearly if you're reading classic lit you're looking for something more or you've given up and are looking for something you like.

How many of those did you learn in school or from family? How many language families are they from? I can't imagine someone who misses so much of what language is about putting in the incredible time and effort it takes to learn a language and communicate in it without sounding like a potato.

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>>8866506
>mfw learning chinese just to read 三國演義

>>8872992
Don't be shy, post an example

>>8873146
Each language is irreplaceable, but none is indispensable.

As I'm a seasoned reader, I'm on /lit/ to give, almost never to take. I wouldn't lose that much if I weren't here.

I learned one language from family (my mother tongue), four in school, one for religious reasons, and two by myself. That's good, but I don't think monolingual people are inferior.

In most cases, translations are "good enough", and certainly better than reading in a language you don't fully grasp. Life is too short to let you master 25 languages, and Dostoevsky remains a genius in any language. So grab a good translation and enjoy it.

>not reading the Bible in Hebrew or Arameic
>how can you follow God's word with a translation lmao

>>8869564
There's loads of Greek in English.

There is no easy way. Just remember the words.

>>8873319
My grandfather learned Aramaic just to read the bible

>>8873335
Well, that's a noble effort.

The hard part is to become fluent enough, because an okay-ish command of Aramaic is probably worth less than just reading a translation.

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i happen to speak norwegian, swedish, danish, finno-swedish, new-norwegian, high norwegian, high danish, old norse

lmao @ literally everyone outside of scandinavian masterrace. plebby mcpleb thinking hes patrician coz of his trilingualism lmao

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>>8873361

How exactly does one become fluent in a language? Go over grammar and then just read/listen to the shit out of things? Asking for a friend

>>8872925
i live in sydney you fucking nigger

>>8874658
you can't unless you speak the language regularly with other fluent speakers over an extended period of time
even then unless it's done really early on you'll always have an accent

>>8866477
>Tries to prove something about Greek translations
>Picks a non-fiction philosophy text

lmao.

Now do the same thing with Homer.

>>8873361
>*speak* new-norwegian, high norwegian

ayyyyyy

>>8875107
>non-fiction

>>8875127
Well, arguably, at any rate.

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>>8875127
Correct.
Homer is divinely inspired and literally true.

>>8866090
>toiling in the mines just to stay alive
>too "dumb/lazy" to learn a language

rich ppl kill you are selves

>>8866090
Get over yourself, pseud.

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>>8866327
It's painful. you'll learn some of it, maybe get the kana memorized but then the kanji will finish you off and you won't touch it for a year and a half.

I know russian, english, german, and basics of latin. I don't feel like wasting time on another european language, and cultures outside Europe aren't relevant enough to study.

>>8872992
>Try taking some other language translations of English stuff and google translating them back to English.

Your argument against nuanced and scholarly translations is fucking Google Translate?

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>>8866489

Greek used to be a hell of a lot more squiggly than that

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>>8869564

The best way is to read and re-read over and over again. It's way easier to remember words when they're tied to a line in a great work of literature.

Don't try to memorize every word you have to look up at first, that will be too many words and most of them will be relatively uncommon words. Use Perseus to generate vocab lists if you want, memorize all the words that occur in your author over 3 times or whatever.

Leave lists of words around the house, I keep a stack in the bathroom but also random lists in random places, so I'll just glance at them throughout the day if I'm there. Flashcards are a bad meme, for all the time you'd waste making flashcards you could just have a big ol' list o' words.

Greek vocab gets easier over time, you do develop a "feel" for the language such that new words seem to "make sense" and you'll stop confusing words that, now, look similar and perhaps get confused at times (ἐλεείνω, ἐρείδω, ἐλαύνω, ἔρυμαι, ἔρυω, εἰμί, εἶμι, ἵημι etc). Also while Greek vocabulary is fairly large a huge amount of those words are just compounds, so every time you learn one base word you're really learning 10+ words. You just have to get used to the way Greek makes its compounds but that will happen naturally without any special effort.

>>8867585

Orberg is better in every way than Wheelock's.

>>8866319
Your post won't take the stick out of /lit/'s ass anon, but you are correct.

>>8866319
I agree, but I have to say: why not both? I have read, for instance, Ulysses original and also the considered best translation to my first language. If one has the time and is willing to learn a new language, why not try the original? Can't hurt...

>>8876744
This is so unreadable. Languages with diacritic vomit in them suck shit.

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>>8877145

You can learn to read it in an afternoon desu, some of the type-faces are cramped and ugly but some are very pretty and elegant to me.

Tu ne quaesieris, scire nefas, quem mihi, quem tibi
finem di dederint, Leuconoe, nec Babylonios
temptaris numeros. ut melius, quidquid erit, pati.
seu pluris hiemes seu tribuit Iuppiter ultimam,
quae nunc oppositis debilitat pumicibus mare
Tyrrhenum: sapias, vina liques et spatio brevi
spem longam reseces. dum loquimur, fugerit invida
aetas: carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.

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>>8877443

Nice. I'm pretty sure this poem here is my favorite of anything I've read in Latin. Definitely the most raw and powerful.

Super alta vectus Attis celeri rate maria,
Phrygium ut nemus citato cupide pede tetigit,
adiitque opaca silvis redimita loca deae,
stimulatus ibi furenti rabie, vagus animis,
de volsit ili acuto sibi pondera silice,
itaque ut relicta sensit sibi membra sine viro,
etiam recente terrae sola sanguine maculans,
niveis citata cepit manibus leve typanum,
typanum tuum, Cybebe, tua, mater initia,
quatiensque terga tauri teneris cava digitis
canere haec suis adorta est tremebunda comitibus.
'agite ite ad alta, Gallae, Cybeles nemora simul,
simul ite, Dindymenae dominae vaga pecora,
aliena quae petentes velut exules loca
sectam meam exsecutae duce me mihi comites
rapidum salum tulistis truculentaque pelagi
et corpus evirastis Veneris nimio odio;
hilarate erae citatis erroribus animum.
mora tarda mente cedat: simul ite, sequimini
Phrygiam ad domum Cybebes, Phrygia ad nemora deae,
ubi cymbalum sonat vox, ubi tympana reboant,
tibicen ubi canit Phryx curvo grave calamo,
ubi capita Maenades ui iaciunt hederigerae,
ubi sacra sancta acutis ululatibus agitant,
ubi suevit illa divae volitare vaga cohors,
quo nos decet citatis celerare tripudiis.'

etc

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>>8867436
>The only language you will ever master is your native language.

Yes, yes, well done pseud, well done pseud

HOWEVER

>>8877496
Guys like him and Nabokov and Cioran and Conrad are great of course and masters of their adopted languages in the sense of using it, but they still do not have that experience of hearing their mums singing lullabies in it or really having your brain develop in that language, talking to your childhood friends in it, growing up fully immersed in it to the point of it defining your basic thought structure. I think there's still an essential difference between learning a language and living in it from brith.

>>8877530
Eh, some people learn several languages from birth. Some start early in school, people really overestimate how "fluent" people are in their own language. Most people don't even read books and their vocabulary is lacking.

>>8877530
Funny since Nabokov is arguably the best prose stylist ever. Don't really like his themes myself, but his prose was the work of a master

>>8866734
I speak german, russian, french and english

You're missing out on worlds of literature

>>8868065

Sebald
Mann
Bernhard
Musil
Böll
Brecht
Kafka
Zweig
Döblin
Remarque

Husserl
Adorno
Heidegger
Marcuse
Simmel
Weber
Wittgenstein
Benjamin
Jaspers
Luhmann
Habermas
L. Berger and Luckmann

>>8877702
This