Why is there such a hatred towards religion and God in the world

>>8848829
It's a very lazy way to establish yourself as an 'intellectual'.

Crash only 2 pancakes remained and so on

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>>8848829
>the only thing that teaches us to love

[citation fucking needed]

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>>8848829
The element of mythology or philosophy that religion attempts to deal with, for better or for worse, is something that is sorely needed from a lot of conversation in art today and even just culture today. Things have become overtly politicised that we’ve gotten away from the philosophical and metaphysical realm that we need to deal with.

I think what’s valuable about religion in a modern, contemporary society, and indeed for young people who are living in a secular society, is that in some ways it still deals with mythology. Mythology is essentially the language of symbols and symbols by default are abstractions of something other than themselves. I think if science really wants to take a foothold within the psyche, it needs to start incorporating the language of mythology. Every time we’re reading we are participating in symbols. Reading in itself, like, letterforms have no fucking value. It’s all about abstract thinking, and abstract thinking is problem solving.

There’s a whole set of questions that are very important that have nothing to do with policy. Policy is very earthbound, and it’s of the moment, but the questions of death and where we come from, and our place caught between nature and consciousness are timeless questions. We need mythology, and we need symbols because we’re burdened with consciousness; we’re cursed with consciousness. Abstraction and abstract thinking is something that’s very important to hold onto, especially as an artist or a writer. And for some reason, I think it’s been kind of removed from the discussion with a lot of music and art. The value and role of religion in society is that it does still deal with symbols and mythology.

>>8848849
If we lived in a state of anarchy, what would stop you robbing that old blind man other than your love for him? What teaches you that love?

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>>8848854
>le "we only have morality because of God hurr durr" meme

Also, what you call "love" is just a form of evolutionary behaviour to ensure the surviving of the species. There's nothing metaphysical or spiritual about it.

>>8848854
Basic human decency. Religion isn't essential for that.

>>8848871
>Religion isn't essential
Stopped reading your post right there. You absolutely disgust me. Get off my board. Now. I won't ask again.

>>8848871
>basic human decency

>>8848871
The error in your thought is that you believe you not actively worshiping God means you are completely independent of any religious thought and influence.

Your so called "basic human decency" you only display and experience within this society because it's heavily marked by Christianity.

>>8848860

>Makes the most plebbit post in the thread with a back to pleddit picture

Performative hypocrisy does have a certain elegance to it.

>>8848888
dem digits don't lie...

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>>8848860
>le teenage science boy teaches us about evolution
>>>/reddit/

>>8848871
Look at the middle east, look at africa, look at india, look at china/southeast asia, open your fucking eyes

Just a few hours ago I was reading about how some dudes shoved a air hose up a 16 year old kids as and blew his intestines out because they didn't like him changing jobs or something.

There is no such thing as basic human decency.

>>8848829
They will learn their mistake when the nihilistic plague reaches them.

>>8848888
Thanks for an actually insightful post. I hadn't considered that.

>>8848888
This

Whatever your "morals" are guided by, they are guided by something. Imo if you don't have morals you are a nihilist, and true nihilists don't exist. So you do have morals, and these morals come from either again nothing, or from God (or "God"). A spiritual dimension regardless of your specific beliefs.

>>8848860
*dibb*

>>8848871
It is though. Otherwise your "decency" becomes debased. Yes, you can talk about golden rule and whatever, that it's in your own interest to treat people well, but then you have what was discussed in the beginning of Plato's Republic where people act good in public but have no shame in doing wrong as long as they can get away with it.

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>>8848829
>Why do people wish to root out and eradicate the only thing that teaches us to love?
You mean the 'War On Drugs'? I dunno, but I like 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine.

>>8848908
1 for the trouble
2 for the better green
3, 4 - Methylenedioxymethamphetamine

>>8848829
I don't know who to blame.

On one hand it seems like previous generations have failed to communicate the significance, complexity, and reality of faith and belief to their children in meaningful ways beyond the shitty endless barrage of "God loves you and whatever."

And on the other hand young people are so vapid that they can't even think to grapple with ideas of personal identity like that. Not that they are more vapid than any other generation per se, but I think there are so many more pitfalls in modern society. It's so easy to be absorbed by internet and mass media personality cults, to throw away your personal identity in an endless glut of sensory gratification and consumer envy. It's just a different world... I don't know.

>>8848888
And where did Christianity derive those morals from? It didn't always exist you know. The answer is basic human decency, you fuckhead.

>>8848881
For having an opinion? Calm down

>>8848902
I'm pretty sure Plato wasn't a Christian.

>>8848934
>Being this new
You're gonna have rough time kiddo.

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>>8848937
That's where you're wrong.

Though it's beside the point in any case.

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>>8848937
Y'know, he may have even created Him.

>>8848949
Beat me to it.

Spirituality, religious or not, culture, arts, higher purposes all dead as a whole desu and no leading intellectual class to point people in the proper direction.

>>8848932
If Christianity embodies a universal quality of "basic human decency" then from what do Islamic (for example) tenets of faith derive?

>>8848851
This. Say what you will about religion but it holds a purpose, if not just as a reference point for ethics.

>>8848932
>The answer is basic human decency, you fuckhead.
>you fuckhead.
Arguing like a petulant teenager isn't going to get you very far on this board.

>>8848954
That's pretty islamophobic, anon. Throwing gays off rooftops is basic human decency.

>>8848934
Thanks for the (You), here I'll return the favor.
>>8848947
He was just being nice, I think.

>>8848854
>needing to be taught to love
???

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>>8848888
>Your so called "basic human decency" you only display and experience within this society because it's heavily marked by Christianity.
no

>>8848932
From GOD, retard.

>>8848829
because it is the agent of our nihlism.

>>8848881
Lmao. What a clown you are.

>>8848893
>Implying Middle East is not religious.

>>8849527
Nice reading comprehension

>>8848888
You seem to be forgetting about something called "empathy" which is exhibited in a number of animal species, only one of which (humans) has organised religion.

>>8848890
>>8848893
>>8848902
>can't refute someone's point
>direct them to reddit

I personally think it's because modern people think that science can be redeeming in the same way religion or mythology can be.

Which is false, but people believe it nonetheless.

>>8848902
>Missing the entire point of the Ring of Gyges thought experiment

How can you seriously be this retarded? Plato wasn't attempting to illustrate that people inevitably behave badly in the absence of other people's judgement (the influence of religion, or what have you). Rather, he was trying to show that the essential character of ethics can't be reduced to social norms and the effects of reward and punishment because even if someone wasn't in any way externally held accountable for their actions, so to speak (e.g. if they were invisible), behaving immorally would still corrupt their mind/soul/will/etc.

>>8848988
yeah christians never oppose gays or set parenthood clinics on fire or anything like that

I don't think its a hatred towards religion in general, just the established western ones, i.e. abrahamic religions

people will always seek spirituality or things of religious nature but for the modern person raised in a world of logic and rationality, christianity, islam, and judaism are just too archaic. they breed too faith too pure, discourage thinking for yourself, leaving people spiritually unfulfilled reluctant. they tell, not show, which is what people post-scientific revolution are used to. they take themselves too seriously and consistently lend themselves to conflicts by asserting their righteousness over other systems of beliefs. they have outstayed their welcome, so to speak. which is why we will continue to see revival in science-as-faith, eastern spirituality, pantheism and paganism, unless severe reforms take place (which they won't)

>>8848829
Identity politics and extremist leftism replacing god with government

>>8848829

Because people are being taught in history classes just how much Religion can lead to immense amounts of death and pain, and just how much it has stopped progress for humanity.

You don't have to be a genius to just do your research on the internet and totally be dispelled by thousands of years of falsehoods.

>>8848829
>the only thing that teaches us to love?
My mother taught me to love.

>>8848829
It's not hatred of God but of Christianity and the motives involved aren't really that hard to observe or understand.

>>8849719
As opposed to wonderful atheistic moral utopias like the USSR and PRoC

>>8849753
And someone taught her to love, and the person who taught her to love was taught by someone else to love and it all started with religion.

>>8849719
Cool, maybe we should go back in time and completely eradicate religion and then realize how much we needed it to get to where we are today.
>and just how much it has stopped progress for humanity
We wouldn't even be here or have a western style civilization without it and technological advancements have always been driven by war which has been driven by religion.

>>8848860
>implying you can derive objective obligations from a subjectively grounded/nonmetaphysical idea.

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>>8848932
>where did Christianity derive those morals from?
Guess we'll never know

>>8848829
Because in the modern political age, anyone who's actually spent any significant amount of time with a religious text can realize people only believe these things so long as it's convenient to them
I was raised very religious but at this point i feel that in order to not be completely disillusioned with religious institutions you must be willfully ignorant of a lot of what goes on in the world

The nihilists are right and I've got no idea how to stop it

>>8849641
Wait so... you's be sayin'... dat... morals aren't based in social norms or things like "human decency"

>>8849693
I can't believe how islamophobic you are. Comparing honest, decent Muslims to horrid Christians. You need to be more tolerant, anon.

>>8848829
Because there's a new holy war brewing.
When someone actively hates religion/god they've really just replaced it with something else. Usually something that doesn't fulfill the experiential purpose of religion/god.
What we need to do is get rid of all organized religion in order to properly experience God as a phenomena.

>stopped progress for humanity

Without the work of the Catholic Church and the European monasteries, almost all Western civilization and development would have been futile.

Oxford University was founded by monks, for example. Are you going to argue that it was religion that 'stopped progress' when it built one of the greatest influences on academic history in the last 1000 years?

>>8849641
It seems to me that you're missing my point, because I agree with most of what you said and claim that that is exactly why you cannot have a comparable but completely atheistic set of morals.
>behaving immorally would still corrupt their mind/soul/will/etc.
Mind/soul is a big distinction in today's usage. I guarantee you none of Plato's arguments on why it is worse to do wrong than to suffer it will convince modern atheists.
>wasn't attempting to illustrate that people inevitably behave badly in the absence of other people's judgement (the influence of religion, or what have you)
Again, people's judgements and religion is a big distinction. I agree with you though, that wasn't Plato's point, this is where my own claim comes in. I claim that this kind of behavior (doing good only where you have to) is a natural consequence of a godless, completely materialistic society.

>>8850109
Meant for >>8849719

>>8848860
someone post the chemicals in your brain cartoon, I don't have it

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>>8850208
>>8848860

>>8850109
Well if the ancient Alexandrian proto-renaissance wasn't crushed you wouldn't have gotten the civilizational collapse that resulted in the conditions of the Dark Ages, you could of easily had an industrial revolution develop 2 thousand years ago

>>8850208
>>8850227
>Im content with being a blind ideologue and burying my head in the sand. Also if you don't it's because ur dum
fkin rekt

>>8850241
Nope, believing that your mind is capable of determining truth is the fundamentals of all human belief. Atheistic thought tries to refute this which in turn refutes the refutation. Making atheistic philosophies the most baseless and pointless ideologies. We decide to believe that our brains can find truth because it creates limited cognitive dissonance.

>>8848871
>Basic human decency.
What does that mean? Where does that come from?

>>8848860
>Also, what you call "love" is just a form of evolutionary behaviour to ensure the surviving of the species.

Lol, must be why there are so many wars, massacres, crimes, etc.

Fuck off, hippie.

>>8849595
>only one of which (humans) has organised religion.
Only one of which :
- has language
- has institutions
- has laws
- doesn't eat poop as a norm
- doesn't rape as a norm

etc. etc. etc.

Get a load of yourself.

>>8848954
>implying there's a significant difference between the various jewish fairy tales
lel

>>8849693
>tfw the best/normal christians are basically atheists who like to celebrate Christmas
Anyone who seriously believes in any of that religion tripe is a dangerous and unhinged person.

People here will give you intellectual explanations, but I will give you the real one

Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision. When the aged Pontiff had finished celebrating Mass in his private Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael*, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere. When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation:

>The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord:
>"I can destroy your Church."

>The gentle voice of Our Lord:
>"You can? Then go ahead and do so."

>Satan:
>"To do so, I need more time and more power."

>Our Lord:
>"How much time? How much power?

>>Satan:
>"75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service."

>Our Lord:
"You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will."

*Short version: Saint Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, who prowl throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

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>tfw I only believe in god now because Reddit doesn't

>>8848949
>>8848952
>Christ-cucks shilling this hard to try and present a renowned pagan as one of their own fold
lmao, have some decency

>>8850238
There are at least 3, possibly 4, possible dates for the destruction of the library. These run from the time of Caesar's conquest (~50 years before Christ) all the way to the time of Muslim control of Egypt. That's a 700+ year span. Please stop this shitty meme. As well, it was catholic bishops and monks (and even a pope or two) who were doing what we would consider science in the "dark" ages.

>>8850350
>being a misogynist shitlord who doesn't believe in rape culture

>>8850455
>implying the Form of the Good isn't God
>implying many of the great early church fathers weren't neoplatonists, strongly influencing Christianity as we know it today on a foundational level
>implying you didn't miss the joke
>implying i didn't take the bait

>>8850418
Why didn't God just say "no"?

>>8848854
>I need religion to keep me from robbing old men

>>8848888
This, read On the Genealogy of Morals and the Ego and Its Own.

If you don't believe in God but venerate Morality, Progress, and Science, you're still a religious cuck.

>>8850484
Because it is a test of humanity's ability to resist the Devil. For God to say "No" is to remove our free will.

>>8850506
>I simplify arguments to the extreme so that I can ridicule them because I'm retarded

>>8849595
>You seem to be forgetting about something called "empathy" which is exhibited in a number of animal species, only one of which (humans) has organised religion.
Universal love is a Christian ideal that can never be attained (which is why both liberals and Christians torment themselves to attain it). There are out-groups, whom I hate, and in-groups, whom I love, in all human societies. We are all inherently tribal and psychopathic. Thus the liberal loves everyone but racists and non-liberals, and Christians love Christians but hate heathens. We all need an enemy.

>>8850438
>tfw I turned to Plato half-ironically because I was too weak to become an übermensch
I don't even have any regrets about it either.

Half of your "muh morals" can come from observation and clear reasoning:

>A kills B's son
>B feels bad
>A doesn't feel good
>B kills A in return
>A's mother feels bad
>B doesn't feel good

"Killing each other only brings more pain to our shitty lives" -- Ancient Sentient Being

It's not even religion, it's literally just Christianity. Leftards/atheists don't care about Islam, even though it is many orders of magnitude worse and more retarded than Christianity. It's all about contrarianism for leftards

>>8850558
>be B
>realize that I can benefit from killing A
>calculate that nobody will know it was me
>do it

>>8850558
>(((B))) is destroying A's country
>A kills B
>waaah muh morals B did nothing wrong

>>8850558
If morals come from observation and clear reasoning, why did either A or B feel bad when they killed the other?

>>8848871
Absolutely retarded.

>>8850590
>(((B))) fucks A's gf
>A is too much of a pussy ass bitch to fight (((B)))
>A decides to vent politically about (((B)))'s race instead of dealing with his own sissyboy tendencies
fixed

>>8850563
>implying nu-fascism isn't where the uneducated contrarians flocked to

>>8850406
>can't understand Christian religion, calls it stupid cuz im retarded
>chain doesn't break, hangs on it

For a while in the 60's and 70' Christian apologetics was really looked down on for whatever reason so there have been multiple generations that haven't had access to answers for some of the most basic theological and philosophical questions. It's coming around though.

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don't mind me just passing through with my torches

>>8850825
funny how everything is about sex to you retards
>muh dick
>you only have that opinion because of pussy lmao
>pussy on muh dick

>>8848854
>>8848881
>>8848888
>>8850345
Let me brush you up on human empathy and instinctual kindness, friends. In our very distant past, the man who felt empathy for his fellow man, who could understand when others suffered and feel uncomfortable for it, would have an aversion to harming other people. It's also instinctual that we care for others and have mutually beneficial relationships with them. We understand fairness and generosity just as we have the urge to reciprocate them in gratitude. We are communal animals that rely on cooperation, and these traits improved the fitness of communities as it reduced harm done to itself and improved cohesion.

Of course these worked in conjunction with other forces that pushed us to selfishness, but the point is that it still is in our intinct that we do good by others. Now, parts of these were even there before we were human, our chimp relatives have inherited these traits from our ancestors also https://youtu.be/2BYJf2xSONc.

>>8848893
No, that's not correct. What do you know about those places? The Eastern philosophies also teach kindness. Their classic text/poem says "men at birth are naturally good". There's probably no arguing with you, I bet you are racist too.

I see how religion can keep some of us in check, you know I'd even say it definitely helps, but I'm sure we can educate people to be decent without using religion, because even without its problems, we know that our religions are FALSE after all!

>>8851913
>In our very distant past, the man who felt empathy for his fellow man, who could understand when others suffered and feel uncomfortable for it, would have an aversion to harming other people

Then he and the rest of his tribe got brutally murdered by another tribe because they were too empathetic to harm another person.

You've cited nothing but a YouTube video you pseud, either actually contribute or fuck off.

>>8852950
Tribes that avoided bloody conflict and could coexist would also have survived better, but like I said there were other forces at play, if it came to it we were capable of fighting in self defense or taking from another group for our own interest. Has Christianity prevented this side of our nature, the crusades and its plundering, the enslavement of africans? I never said this part of us doesn't exist, I described how it pays to respect and cooperate instead of wronging people.

In studying tribal cultures, they found that often when tribes came together they would trade and have social events instead of fight. You can find this in david graeber's debt: the first 5k years. Imagine a population that avoided war, where tribes respected each other and only fought when they were trespassed. It would have survived better than a population of warring reavers.

Human decency exists in every corner of Earth as does the opposite, there's no shortage of atrocities in Christian ruled places and times. I said that Eastern writings say human nature is good, do you believe this and are you interested enough to want a source? Their civilizations were in great shape in the middle ages, before being overpowered by technology, people there acted normally like people would, without an overbearing religion. What do you say to that?

Religious arguments against science never hold water. You can always go debate a scientist if you want rigorous sources and to disprove them.

>>8853357
There's equal evidence that even Bronze Age tribes followed some sort of primitive religion.