Is pic related a /lit/ college? Looking for something that places

Great school, but don't expect that reading Ptolemy, Gallileo and Newton will give you a firm background in technical knowledge. Theory and philosophy of science yes. Also be aware there is definitely a covert theistic slant to everything taught there. That may or may not be your thing.

>>8840643
>>8840643
Williams and Amherst are incredible schools, but St. John's offers something pretty unique. I think you'll leave with more close-reading skill than you could get from any other school. I also think there's something pretty romantic about a writer who's read most of the most important books ever written.

You could read those books at home, but you likely won't, just because you likely won't have four years to dedicate to consuming the whole western canon.
Also, as I suspect you realize, the end of education at St. John's isn't to have read a lot of books, but rather to get good at reading, understanding things, and presenting your thoughts.

St. John's also has two campuses, which you can switch between as you like.
I went to a more selective liberal arts college because I was pursuing a particular field of study, but after listening to many of my professors wax poetic about St. John's, I came to wish I had gone there isntead.

>>8840643
i visited it when i was looking at schools. campus is quaint in a nice way. seemed to be a really cool community of students - it's small enough that everyone knows everyone pretty much.

whether you should attend depends on what you are thinking about doing afterwards. you'll be well read af, but won't really have specific technical knowledge or transferable skills. so your options are basically getting a job somewhere where they don't give a fuck what your degree was in or go into graduate school.

>>8841166
or become a hermit in the woods

>>8840643
Don't turn your humanities hobby in a career lad

Huh, I'm visiting the Santa Fe campus on Friday. Was gonna make p much the same thread. Looks /lit/ to me.

Middlebury College is amazing in my experience for literature and writing.

>>8840643
This might seem like kind of an alt-right, safe-spacey post, but I assure you that's not where I'm coming from.

I go to an elite liberal arts college also known for its mandatory great books program, though in our case it only lasts a year.

The syllabus is under constant attack from Black-Lives-Matter-inspired activists for being too white-male-focused and it isn't nearly as homogenously European and male as is St. John's. This activism isn't a fringe movement; it often sets the terms of class discussion, and each lecturer either panders to the protesters or is rebuked harshly by much of the student body for failing to do so.

Before you choose St. John's, make sure this isn't going on there. When everyone is forced to take the same classes, you can't funnel all of the sociology and gender studies majors into their own subcommunity--the vocal minorities have a powerful (that is, loud) voice.

>>8841283
That's not at all what he was saying. We cannot just edit the cannon to fit the fantasy that such activist types want to believe. The fact of the matter is that most great works in history, so far, were written by white men - due to material circumstances - and trying to revise that to make a more "inclusive" atmosphere or whatever sets a dangerous precedent. Plus, too, that type of discussion about authorship and privilege can derail discussion about the actual material itself.

>>8841283
I know this is a troll post, but I'm going to respond to the underlying sentiment as though it isn't.

When you choose to spend four years of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to a school because you were told it has a certain curriculum (OP could go to Cornell instead, if he didn't care about reading good books and talking about them well) it's of vital importance to you that the curriculum is as advertised.

>>8840643
Though not very selective, it's as /lit/ a college as you can find in America. I've compared St. John's syllabus to many other lit program syllabi throughout the country, and not even the most prestigious schools can compare. I went to the University of Chicago myself, but I wish I'd have gone to St. John's instead. Unfortunately I didn't hear of it until three years into my degree. The few professors I've heard mention it have had almost nothing but praise for it.

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>>8840643
Its a scam, go to state school or Ivy, or full ride

>>8841559
>200k USD to learn how to read books
wew

>>8841561
>>8841559

you're not going to have a good time if this is how you assess colleges

>>8841559
Take as many courses as possible outside of an Ivy then go to an Ivy.

>>8841581
I went to college 2001-05. I have no debt, I am successful and well read.

200k to read books you can get at your local library or on gutenberg is a fucking joke, especially with open ed opportunities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRe_fK7pbw

>>8840643
I'm a Marylander and bum around Annapolis sometimes. St. Johns is a pretty comfy campus and the community really likes the students. I glean that they're less rowdy than the folks at the naval academy, or at least they're fewer in number and don't do as much damage as college age kids are wont to do.

Anyways, I toured St. Johns a number of years ago on a field-trip from my high school. What I remember most is that some dude with long hair was lighting up a J in one of the hallways. That probably goes with the territory at schools like this. But in all fairness to the place, my classmates and I got to participate in one of their student-led-tutor-facilitated classes about Antigone. With the right group of people that could be a great way to learn from the western canon.

Echoing the concerns of some other posters here, I would caution you to go and visit for yourself. See if the people attending are really so wrapped up in the identity politics crap that they drag all that baggage into unrelated classes. I graduated from a different college in 2015 and remember that, although there were rumblings of the problems we have now, my school fortunately was unaffected. You really want a school where you can focus on learning, not on vapid facebook controversies and classmates who will give you grief.

>>8841273
Go to Reed?

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>tfw grades are only above average
Anyone else know this feeling? I know people who go to Ivy League schools, and I know I'm smarter than them. I've lived a full life, traveled, drifted, learned several languages, acted in a play, worked as a highschool teacher, met people from all over the world, and have read a library's worth of books.

But I was always bored in class and never bothered with doing the crossword puzzles they assigned us as "homework". Now these schools give me 200 words to attempt to prove why I, as a student with an 85% average, am more intelligent than someone with a 95% average.

God its stressful. Reed wouldn't even accept my application because I already applied once (was waitlisted), and don't have any transcripts between when I last applied and now to "prove" my intelligence.

Anyone have experience with this? I'm thinking of just emailing different admissions officers directly and begging them to consider me, but I don't know if this will work.

>>8840655
>Also be aware there is definitely a covert theistic slant
Maybe on the part of some very particular tutors (what we call professors), but largely, no, that's not true. More than a few of the faculty are atheists or atheistic tending agnostics.

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>>8842519
The draw to attend a prestigious school can be great, but when you get down to it every college is more alike than different. You want to reach for those places for sure, because they are favorable in terms of post-graduate employment results. But even if you don't get admitted there, you can still get much the same experience: memorable professors, smart classmates with whom you make fast friends, annoying administrators making life difficult for you, and a bewildering number of people who will take for granted what you have striven for in attending. Every school will offer those things. Wherever you go, it's going to be on you to make the most of what will be there. And it's nothing that you haven't done before, because you've already read lots of quality books and have learned many things. More of the same!

And really the worst thing to get down about is the admissions process. It's all advertising smoke-and-mirrors and admissions departments have to maintain the illusion that they hold the keys to a perfect kingdom, or else people stop applying. The performance comes down hardest on the applicants themselves, but once you're admitted to one place or another, you quickly see college for what it is and come to pity the people being sold a fantasy by supercilious admissions employees with classmate tour guides for helpers. After graduation, you start pitying the tour guides because they inevitably go on to work for admissions!

From your post I think you have a healthy attitude toward life, for what it's worth. Carry that to school with you and you'll learn a lot more than the people who are trapped in the cult of success, chasing metrics all their waking hours. It really does start to get better when you can talk about ideas rather than do crosswords and worksheets all day.

T. anon

>>8840643
honestly, it doesnt matter where you go. it depends on what classes you take and what you do with your education. one professor at harvard isn't so different from one at a uc. the tuition is what is killer, especially if you're talking about a bachelor's.

Why does everyone think you're going to be paying the tag price for this school? They give out great financial aid awards. My parents combined make $100k a year and I'm receiving $40k a year in grant money. If any of you pay your own taxes, you're able to go to the school for free.

>>8842843
Thanks anon, it's really encouraging to hear that, I guess I am just stressing out about nothing.

Anon, just go to Baylor University and get their Great Texts of the Western Tradition degree.

>>8842519
Hey bud, I was in a similar boat. Despite getting a nearly perfect SAT score and having lots of creative ability, I got a 3.0 in high school and was consequently rejected or waitlisted at 7/8 of the schools I applied to.
It took quite a while for me to turn things around, ie. develop study habits and find a field of study that excites me, but after doing so, I was accepted as a transfer applicant to several great schools, went to one, and now things are pretty great.
You should go to St. John's though; I wish I had. Grad schools and law school love it and it's a fantastic place.

>>8840643
I just applied there desu.
Full ride from that GI bill.

>>8844009
What if Anon doesn't want to get raped?

>>8844024
We all have to make sacrifices for our art.

>>8844014
Which were you accepted to?

>>8844016

I thought the GI bill only covers a max of like 20k a year?

>>8844058
Skidmore

>>8844061
St.John's is a yellow ribbon school.
They reach an agreement with the VA where they match the VA contribution and the VA will split the difference.
So I'm only left with housing, which is covered by like 2100 a month through the bill. Plus I've invested my entire time in the army so I've got passive income of like 1k a month.
It's a dank deal. TY for paying your taxes citizen.

>>8844078
That's a sweet deal friend, congratulations

>Already went to college, 31 years old now
>Got a degree in engineering and started working with an energy company several years ago
>Company did well. Really well. Sold my shares and now have enough that if I live frugally I don't have to work for the rest of my life.
>Always wished I could have gone to a school like St. Johns or Hillsdale college and sit in comfy reading rooms with fireplaces blazing while I discuss the great works of western civilization with my peers.

What do lit? Do I just retake the SAT and pretend I don't have a degree?

>tfw on a full ride to Colby
gonna be fun lads. Lots of reading will be done, considering that it will be freezing cold outside much of the time.

Do Americans really pay 200k to read books?

If I had to pay that much money I'd rather inherit my father's failing business...

t. Law-student at free public school in Brazil

>>8844341

If you're actually intelligent and have good grades as well you can almost certainly get scholarships that cover most of your schooling. I didn't pay a single cent of tuition and had most of my housing/books etc paid for by a scholarship the school used to recruit me there. I graduated with no debt because my family was able to help with the remainder like buying food which they had saved for for years anyways so it wasn't a big burden.

The people you hear whining and bitching about their 200k of debt made horrible decisions.

>>8844341
I did university in Canada where it costs $8k/yr at the top unis and the government just loans you the money. A surprisingly large number of Americans go to Canada for university for that reason.

Now I'm at a university in the States and it really is interesting to see how the cost segregates things by class. There are a lot of "lesser"/state schools in the town I'm in, and there is a clear sense that the big famous private university is a different set, more for kids from rich families, the kinds of kids who went to expensive private high schools schools.

Coming from my Canadian experience, where I already felt stifled by the ratio of rich assholes even at the more accessible big university I went to, it's fucking stifling. I hear about "only go to private unis if you get a free ride!" a lot, but 90% of the people here seem to be funded by their parents at least partially. The class divide seems a lot starker here as a result.

went on a academic trip to europe. st. johns professor was in the (small) group. she was a fucking pretentious bitch.

>>8844405

>Big famous private university
>Surprised that there is a class divide between it and other schools

McGill graduates everyone.

>>8844429
No, I went to UofT. The big class divide school is the one in the states.

>>8844437

I'm just messing around. I work with a guy (and we happen to work at a big famous private university in a city with numerous lesser schools) that did a few years at McGill and seems to somehow believe that the experience has imbued him with culture and worldliness the likes of which we poor Americans could never understand. He's comes across as a total douche.

The class divide is something I completely understand though. My family as a whole is really pretty poor but I was able to get all of my schooling paid for and now I'm in an MSTP program (combined MD and PhD) which is all paid for by the NIH. Some of my peers come from a lap of luxury the likes of which I can hardly comprehend. Trust fund kids. Who needs em?

>>8844456
UofT and McGill people often talk shit back and forth, but I'm not at all a "UofT nationalist" or anything." Personally I think UofT was a fucking joke, just an administration with an image problem, and a dying academics programme tacked on as an afterthought.

But McGill has a SERIOUS inferiority complex, from everything I've ever seen of it and its students. They are all huge cunts for some weird reason. That's what you get for hanging around the frogs, I guess. Very French kind of resentment.

>My family as a whole is really pretty poor but I was able to get all of my schooling paid
Kudos, dude. Same situation here. That level of openness definitely exists in our society, which is great. I just wish it weren't undermined by the system being geared toward people who had the benefit of helicopter parents and connections.

Actually, I just kind of wish that the lower and middle classes were palpably shown to what extent the rich are out-competing them economically every generation by BEING good helicopter parents, by doing the research to understand what it takes to get your damn kids into Harvard, making sure the kid takes the SATs five times, etc. The door is open but mostly only upper middle class spoiled brats walk through it.

>Trust fund kids
No kidding. That's my problem with the rich set: They do come from a world where their parents greased the wheels for them every step of the way. They look at their "Entry Into The Elite!" as a matter of course, where a steady-as-she-goes pace is fine. You're elite, you're at an elite institution, so it's almost tautological that you should simply do what the institution prescribes, no more and no less.

It's very difficult to find people here who view the course requirements and such as the bare minimum, really passionate types who are genuinely undergoing a transformation into a scholar rather than just becoming the "Scholar" subvariant of trust fund babby as an acceptable vocation.

>>8840643
Yeah place is /lit/ as FUCK.
But it's small and a lot of people are introverts. My advice is to hit up the other normies there and hit up D.C. on the weekend.
You'll experience more that way.

>>8840643
>St. John's College is a private liberal arts college known for its distinctive curriculum centered on reading and discussing the Great Books of Western Civilization.

How is that different from any other liberal art college? Asking seriously.

>>8845378
I assume it means that they don't teach any normal subjects like economics, history, politics, law, linguistics, etc. but instead just choose a bunch of "western cannon" books and group them ttogether then come up with courses making sure you've read them.

Just got accepted to SJC for the January semester. Very excited for it.

>>8840643
For those who noticed the price tag, the avg financial aid package is $40K/Year. This is without any external scholarships. Avg cost of attendance is $60K/Year (tuition + room & board).

>>8842519
I was in the same boat as you anon. Your essay to St. John's is what truly determines your admission. So write the best essay you have written thus far in your life and you will get accepted. There is a 400 word minimum, and no maximum.

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>>8845617
dont like 80% of people get accepted?
do you have to vomit and shit all over the essay to not get accepted?

>>8845378
It's obviously racist, too white and way too male

>>8845711
It has really low application numbers due to high cost and specialization. So I wouldn't read into the acceptance rate too much.

>>8840643
They have the Great Books Program. What do you think?

>>8840655
Wait, wait, are you telling me that a catholic college named after St. John has a theistic bias?!

I give you a little hint.

In Europe you can go to Uni for free, you even have plenty of benefits and you get a lot of free money, still, people don't flock to liberal arts.
You have to pay 200k for something people elsewhere get for free and it does not even grant you a good job. 200k, enough money to live your entire life happily in some parts of the world, enough to buy you a big house, and you want to use it to "read books" and because of the "culture of writing".

But go ahead and ask other people who are willing to spend a small fortune for a "culture of writing".

>>8846056
Apart from some British degrees European degrees are literally worthless though, most aren't even recognized as valid in America.

>>8846077
>most aren't even recognized as valid in America.
You have to recognize most as valid as part of various reciprocal agreements. And Scotland is in Britain, and they do cheap as free (unless you're from elsewhere in the UK).

>>8845842
>this is how plebs justify their shit schools

>>8846092
Tell that to Australia who would laugh you out the room if you turned up with a German trade degree.

>>8846111
>German trade degree
I'm not even sure what that would be. If you mean a degree from a technical university, they must have to recognize them now. If you mean being in a trade, then right now they'd only have to move to the UK and get the relevant card (although obv that might be ending) and then move.

>>8846077
Are you REALLY so gullible as to believe that something is better just because you pay more money?

Tell me, how do you think a European University is different from an American one? Are your books made of gold strains and therefore better? We all learn the same stuff. The math is not different over there and the books you read don't magically change in content.

>>8846077
>Apart from some British degrees European degrees are literally worthless though, most aren't even recognized as valid in America.
"European degrees" don't mean anything. Europe is 400 million people in 28 countries. Some country like Germany, France, the UK, Ireland, the Netherland and Danemark have all the degrees from their public universities recognized in the U.S. (with exceptions like for med school).

>>8846128
Are you really going to pretend like there isn't a massive difference in the quality between American and Mainland European universities? there isn't even a single French university in the top 50, even ENS is only 54.

>>8846108
>(you)

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ITT: Europhiles get all their information from Reddit

Ever wondered why you don't see Swedes complaining about the massive debt they get themselves into going to university? Because It's embarrassing having a $30k degree and not being able to find even menial employment.

>>8846247
>Muh rankings
Again, tell me what you learned that others could not learn.

America is a world power that attracts the most successful people from around the world and the best students want to get into the best universities plus they get it all payed for. So you end up with those high ranking universities full of successful people. This is, however, not correlated to what you learn or the "quality of education".
Just because you move into a rich neighbourhood you don't become rich yourself.

In Europe it simply more evenly distributed, people decide not on the "quality" of the university but if it is close to home or which town is close by.

Honestly, just tell me one thing you learned that you could not have learned at a cheaper university or in Europe.

>>8841559
My mother has worked in higher ed for the better part of her life and this is exactly what she told me too back when I was applying to colleges and she found out I had talked to a St. John's rep.
Seeing OP juxtaposing it with Williams, Amherst, and Cornell almost made me spit my drink. I'm no altruist but I sincerely hope OP doesn't give up an education at one of those schools for a scam.

>>8846284
>Ever wondered why you don't see Swedes complaining about the massive debt they get themselves into going to university?
Because, as that chart shows, they have no debt.

>>8846312
European education detected

That chart has nothing to do with debt.

>>8846317
It may not state it directly, but that chart is very much to do with debt.

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>>8846312
>>8846322
>they have no debt
uwotm8

They have the highest in Europe.

>>8846311
Williams grad here. I wish I had gone to St. John's instead.

>>8846324
And Swedish graduates have the highest debt-to-income ratios of any group of students in the developed world.

Although to be fair their universities are significantly generally better than the European average.

>>8846328
Williams is consistently rated #1 Liberal Arts college in the United States and has a 16.8% acceptance rate. I know the grass is always greener but if you could re-do your life would you seriously throw that away for a more enjoyable college experience?
I'm in my final year at Oxford currently. The past few years would have been infinitely better for me had I gone to a normal NE liberal arts school like many college applicants from my state, but in the end I can't imagine trading the opportunity I have been given for that.

>>8846284
What are you trying to say with you graph?
You made no argument whatsoever. The graph only shows that education is free here and that a lot of people benefit from public loans.

Is this what money gets you? Years of paying to learn to think and you can't even defend why you spent a small fortune?

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How full are your lectures /lit/?

Pic related: this would be considered empty here.

I don't think so. The curriculum has a serious lack of insight, and doesn't have a clear purpose. What's the point to go there? Reading legal cases, a Greek physicist, Jonathan Swift, a translation of Gustave Flaubert and William Shakespeare, or listening to J. S. Bach won't lead anywhere. You won't be cultured, merely above the average, because you have no definite knowledge. You would learn very little of anything, and that will most likely underqualifies you whenever a person has an amateur background on a precise field. You will be clueless whenever a genuine music-lover will talk endlessly about subtleties of Joseph Haydn, and composers you have never heard of; you may feel the same when a random antique enthusiast will correct the superficial understanding you have of Greek migration history.

The point is, you will pay $200,000 to get general culture, which is by definition something we should naturally all acquire regardless of our career and education, ideally done in school. You should be as specialized as possible, address the true passion you have, and cultivate it outside of college as well. Do you like Roman history? Then please enroll in a relevant degree in France or Italy, get twelve hours a week of Latin and Greek, an extensive coverage of this whole era, read and translate a large number of authors, playwrights and poets. I graduated in business engineering a couple of years ago, and I think I've pretty much the same education a fresh undergraduate from St. John's College has, provided he kept with the program. Anybody who has a decent interest in literature and reading should have done half of the reading list by his thirties, on the side and out of enthusiasm.

This is unrelated but I also dislike the very mood of that place. To call a professor a “tutor”, have an horizontal pedagogy, streamline the authority, discuss in a “seminar”, within a “group” rather than getting taught ex cathedra or to disrupt the traditional learning process seem to me like a very liberal and arguable method to acquire a solid, proper knowledge. Also, writing and discussing play a laughable role in the program. I consider it is impertinent and exceedingly bold to assume a freshman has enough education so his opinion matters, and few colleges expect you to seriously disclose it in your production within the first years. Anyway, you're free to pursue any cursus I want.

>>8845617
I'll be a JF too see ya there mate

>>8846496
kek

>>8846496
You want to know the difference between somebody that graduated from St. John's and somebody that graduated from Claude Bernard? tenureship, respect and grant money.

>>8846509
If your deepest desire is to get “tenureship, respect and grant money”, a rational choice would have been to enroll in financial mathematics or IT engineering or quantiative analysis. Or course, a more realistic one would be to attend none, since you will never get neither a tenure, respect or money with such a weak mindset.

>>8840643
SJCA '19 here

AMA

It's easy to dismiss the curriculum as a joke but I saw a guy list the courses he took at MIT and he did cs and only took intro to algorithms in his fourth year. In America the universities simply leach money from you.

I went to the nearest university to me without thinking and it is ranked 140 to 160 in the world I.e., low quality courses with barely any content. I feel very cheated even though I paid nothing. The university name is like a dunce cap

>>8846496
this is super correct but most of /lit/ lacks the perspective to understand

>>8846509
trust me st johns carries VERY little weight in american higher academia

>>8846561
How autistic is everyone?

>>8846670
not much more than at a normal college, but there's def a lot more pseudointellectualism

>>8846691
See you in a year famalam. ;^)

>>8846710
pls don't start smoking it's bad for you

>>8846247
American undergraduate education is regarded as a creche for adults, US unis prefer European undergrads for research degree instakes

>>8846769
I'm the guy coming on the GI bill. You can thank the army for that habit.
In all seriousness, I am curious about one thing. How are Grad school prospecting coming out? I'm pulling for a law degree or buisness, and St. John's looked like the best undergrad school I could go to for it.

>>8846151
Pro-tip: It's ironic you choose the literal only example that's the exception, to validate a med degree all you have to do is pass a relativity easy exam.

It's much more difficult for humanity degrees (we're on /lit/ after all); getting validation for a European political science/history/Cultural studies etc. unless your extensively published in peer-reviewed journals is basically impossible.

You should always do your Master/PHD in the country you intend to work in for your entire life, your BSc doesn't matter senpai.

>>8846779
>this is what euros tell themselves

look at the stats buddy. it's all americans and asians.

>>8846827
Enjoy paying $40,000 per year while I get a stipend at your colleges grad school

>>8846843
i pay $60k a year actually, and i get around $600k a year from interest on my assets, which still leaves over 500k for dicking around. cheers buddy.

>>8846848
This is the most bizarre way ive ever seen someone conclude an internet argument

My textbook uses the second statement, isn't this bad English?
>In the dark there is a cat and some rats.
>In the dark there are a cat and some rats

>>8841177
>>8841177
>>8841177

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>>8846496
The dangers that beset the evolution of the philosopher are, in fact, so manifold nowadays, that one might doubt whether this fruit could still come to maturity. The extent and towering structure of the sciences have increased enormously, and therewith also the probability that the philosopher will grow tired even as a learner, or will attach himself somewhere and "specialize" so that he will no longer attain to his elevation, that is to say, to his superspection, his circumspection, and his DESPECTION. Or he gets aloft too late, when the best of his maturity and strength is past ... so that his view, his general estimate of things, is no longer of much importance. It is perhaps just the refinement of his intellectual conscience that makes him hesitate ... he dreads the temptation to become a dilettante, a millepede, a milleantenna, he knows too well that as a discerner, one who has lost his self-respect no longer commands, no longer LEADS ... This is in the last instance a question of taste, if it has not really been a question of conscience. To double once more the philosopher's difficulties, there is also the fact that he demands from himself a verdict, a Yea or Nay, not concerning science, but concerning life and the worth of life ... the philosopher has long been mistaken and confused by the multitude, either with the scientific man and ideal scholar, or with the religiously elevated, desensualized, desecularized visionary and God-intoxicated man; and even yet when one hears anybody praised, because he lives "wisely," or "as a philosopher," it hardly means anything more than "prudently and apart." Wisdom: that seems to the populace to be a kind of flight, a means and artifice for withdrawing successfully from a bad game; but the GENUINE philosopher ... lives "unphilosophically" and "unwisely," above all, IMPRUDENTLY, and feels the obligation and burden of a hundred attempts and temptations of life--he risks HIMSELF constantly, he plays THIS bad game.

>>8841559
>78% acceptance rate

I can't imagine that it's any good. You want 20% max.

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>>8847047
>>8846496
The declaration of independence of the scientific man, his emancipation from philosophy, is one of the subtler after-effects of democratic organization and disorganization: the self-glorification and self-conceitedness of the learned man is now everywhere in full bloom, and in its best springtime--which does not mean to imply that in this case self-praise smells sweet. Here also the instinct of the populace cries, "Freedom from all masters!" and after science has, with the happiest results, resisted theology, whose "hand-maid" it had been too long, it now proposes in its wantonness and indiscretion to lay down laws for philosophy, and in its turn to play the "master"--what am I saying! to play the PHILOSOPHER on its own account. My memory-- the memory of a scientific man, if you please!--teems with the naivetés of insolence which I have heard about philosophy and philosophers from young naturalists and old physicians (not to mention the most cultured and most conceited of all learned men, the philologists and schoolmasters, who are both the one and the other by profession). On one occasion it was the specialist and the Jack Horner who instinctively stood on the defensive against all synthetic tasks and capabilities; at another time it was the industrious worker who had got a scent of OTIUM and refined luxuriousness in the internal economy of the philosopher, and felt himself aggrieved and belittled thereby. On another occasion it was the colour-blindness of the utilitarian, who sees nothing in philosophy but a series of REFUTED systems, and an extravagant expenditure which "does nobody any good". At another time the fear of disguised mysticism and of the boundary-adjustment of knowledge became conspicuous, at another time the disregard of individual philosophers, which had involuntarily extended to disregard of philosophy generally ...

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>>8847055
>>8847047
>>8846496
The human, all-too-human of the modern philosophers themselves ... their contemptibility ... has injured most radically the reverence for philosophy and opened the doors to the instinct of the populace. Let it but be acknowledged to what an extent our modern world diverges from the whole style of the world of Heraclitus, Plato, Empedocles, and whatever else all the royal and magnificent anchorites of the spirit were called, and with what justice an honest man of science MAY feel himself of a better family and origin, in view of such representatives of philosophy, who, owing to the fashion of the present day, are just as much aloft as they are down below ... It is especially the sight of those hotch-potch philosophers, who call themselves "realists," or "positivists," which is calculated to implant a dangerous distrust in the soul of a young and ambitious scholar; those philosophers, at the best, are themselves but scholars and specialists, that is very evident! All of them are persons who have been vanquished and BROUGHT BACK AGAIN under the dominion of science, who at one time or another claimed more from themselves, without having a right to the "more" and its responsibility--and who now, creditably, rancorously, and vindictively, represent in word and deed, DISBELIEF in the master-task and supremacy of philosophy. Science flourishes nowadays and has the good conscience clearly visible on its countenance, while that to which the entire modern philosophy has gradually sunk, the remnant of philosophy of the present day, excites distrust and displeasure, if not scorn and pity. Philosophy, reduced to a "theory of knowledge," no more in fact than a diffident science of epochs and doctrine of forbearance, a philosophy that never even gets beyond the threshold, and rigorously DENIES itself the right to enter--that is philosophy in its last throes, an end, an agony, something that awakens pity. How could such a philosophy--DICTATE!

>>8846497
See you there buddy

i just got into northwestern ED for english, did i fuck up if i want a legitimate /lit/erary education?

>>8844421
>implying pretension is bad

>>8846307
Your argument is basically one step removed from "You can just learn everything at home. Online resources n sheeit"

I'm not even American but to pretend as if their education isn't superior is retarded when they are first in pretty much everything: medicine, technology, culture, etc.

>>8846055
It's not a Catholic college.

>>8846370
Fox Mulder? Is that you?

>>8842519
>I've lived a full life
You're about 20, my dude. You're unjustifiably arrogant and seem like a retard. You've been in a play? Holy shit, you're a real artist and creative type. I mean, you've even traveled. I can hardly think of any college students who are interested in traveling.

currently at williams. great connections and education. ridiculously annoying culture unless youre an sjw. As in i had a student interrupt class to ask if we really can refer to aristotle as "male" since we dont know what he preferred...also life is better if youre athletic here- do with this info what you will.

>>8848163
I'm 20 years old.

I am handsome, smart, athletic and virile.

I have a novel that is in it's final editing stage, and a creative writing professor at my college has read the first draft and thinks it's saleable.

I have a girlfriend who is confident, articulate, playful and spontaneous.

I have a small group of interesting friends from different social and academic backgrounds, and I also have many other acquaintances who see me as a reliable source of humour and good company.

Both my parents are alive and in good health.

I have no regrets.

I have already experienced three existential crises, the latter of which was described as having the depth and profundity of a man twice my age.

I am a passionate lover, a sharp thinker, and a trader of witty repartee.

I am not self-pitying, meek or needlessly humble.

I will live a good life at your expense.

>>8846077
A degree from St. John's college with its acceptance rate of 80% would be seen by most high-tier American universities as near-worthless too.

>>8846247
Rankings aren't what determine prestige.

Rankings are primarily done by number of citations papers published by your department get . A paper written in English is going to be read more and therefore cited more than a paper written in Russian or German. Plus, citations only reflect graduate research and have a weak correlation with undergraduate teaching.

You're really exposing your ignorance if you think France's ENS or l'ecole polytechnique are less academic than most of America's universities.

There's a reason France has way more fields medals per capita than any large-population country in the world (a few tiny countries with only one fields medal like say Singapore skew things, but out of countries with more than one fields medal France has the highest per capita, way more than America, Russia or Britain)

>>8845617
Which campus?

>>8846247

>there isn't even a single French university in the top 50, even ENS is only 54.

the "global" rankings have a severe anglophone bias

rest assured a degree from say, sciences po or one of the former sorbonne colleges is preferable to a degree from 99% of american universities

>>8849057
They said they were accepted for January, so I'm guessing the Fe campus? I don't think you get January freshmen at Annapolis anymore.

>>8849068
You aren't even technically wrong, they definitely have a severe bias but it isn't a anglophone bias, they're severely bias towards research and publishing, you know what the Sorbonne does next to zero of? research and publishing.

>>8849057

Santa Fe Campus, Annapolis doesn't have January Freshman.

>>8848210
Got to the third line before I recognized the pasta.
4/10

>>8848742
I heard though that not many people graduate, which makes getting into the college easy but graduating hard. Plus you don't really know how well your doing until you graduate since thats the only point the professors will actually tell you your grade. Would like confirmation on this from other people though pls

>>8850342
Some classes do experience high attrition rates. My class came in about 150-160 strong and maybe 90 of us graduated? We *are* graded, and you can check your grades with the registrar (though I think you have to wait until they're submitted at the end of a semester, so earliest would be mid-December/early January? I'm sure someone else can clarify that more surely than I can).

There's always a number of around 5-10 who leave within the first two or three weeks, when they can better determine whether their choice of SJC was a mistake for them.

A few people are usually kicked out for disciplinary reasons (three asshats in my class got kicked out for harassing a bi kid in our class while high; pissing on his door, shouting about how they were going to beat up "the fag", etc..).

A few people are asked to leave for academic reasons (their papers suggest that they haven't been keeping up with readings, they don't talk in any of their classes, they miss too many classes, etc.). At the end of the Sophomore year is what's called "disenablement", where all of the tutors who've taught the sophomore class go down the roster to determine who gets to move on to Junior year, who might need to be on academic probation, and who should leave. Worst I've seen was 12 people cut from a class, best was 2.

Some people leave for the usual mental/emotional/social issues one might imagine.

If you're going to get kicked out or be at risk of being kicked out, usually you can tell. You'd have to suffer some pretty intense self-opacity not to have an idea.

>>8852010
>My class came in about 150-160 strong and maybe 90 of us graduated?
That is not a high attrition rate at all. The highest I've had would be over 90%.

Also, holy shit that class size.

>>8850342
That's stupid as fuck.

>>8852013
40 percent attrition is insanely high for undergrad, friend

>>8849424
>the Sorbonne
The Sorbonne doesn't strictly exist anymore, but they do publish a fair amount of research. You can also just write your own research and submit, or find research grants for undergrads.

>>8852021
Oh, I thought you were talking about a single course/class.

It's hard to work out always who is in that particular class in a liberal arts education is all I'll say. High attrition rate in that sense I don't think is v good either, especially if you pay such a high price for it.

>>8852032
SJC has a curriculum required by everybody; there's room for variation, but no one gets to choose, for example, whether you can take all the math and science classes and ignore the language and music classes.

There are cases where a student might be having a rough enough time in a class or several classes that the school fails them in those specific courses, but allows them to continue attending classes they might be succeeding in. Those students would have to repeat the classes they failed in the following year, however.

>>8852032
Well, yes, it's obviously bad for those who drop out to have spent money and dropped out; I assume OP is confident that won't be him.

Academic-factories that pride themselves on rigor and a lack of grade inflation tend to have this issue.

Basically, when a school produces mostly academics, it doesn't have nearly as many big donors as does one that also produces businesspeople, and so it doesn't have the money to recruit celebrity professors or build expansive rare-books libraries or whatever.

This keeps its ranking low; this combined with a reputation for rigor keeps its applicant pool relatively small, so, if it wants to continue to function, it has to accept a much greater portion of applicants than it otherwise might.

This results in a high attrition rate for obvious reasons; if you have to accept people you otherwise wouldn't, some of them aren't going to be able to meet the high standards you set.

>>8841273
students have 0 power and administration gives 0 fucks, tutors are all traditionalists and classicists, and enough of the students are that there is 0 energy behind any movement like that, that being said, don't go around announcing trump support

>>8841561
average discount rate is 80% or so, most students pay about 20-30k for the full 4 yrs.

>>8849617
damn, good luck my man, i will see you in january. don't foget, da ff's are in charge and u r bottom bitch

>>8852181
Well, fuck; in that case, I wish I went to St. John's.

>>8852217
JFs unite. See you in January friend.

>>8852052
>I assume OP is confident that won't be him.
Who cares? Just go to a decent school in the first place. Most support will be from your peers and if you have to wait a couple of years for the shit to be removed that's a lot of wasted time and effort.

>>8852051
>SJC has a curriculum required by everybody; there's room for variation, but no one gets to choose, for example, whether you can take all the math and science classes and ignore the language and music classes.
One of the best aspects of liberal arts degree gone right there.

>>8852323
>One of the best aspects of liberal arts degree gone right there.

The program in its current form is strongly influenced by the notions of Jacob Klein. His essays on liberal education, which clarify his aims:

http://www.hagiasophiaclassical.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/On-Liberal-Education-Jacob-Klein.pdf

http://www.hagiasophiaclassical.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Jacob-Klein-The-Idea-of-Liberal-Education.pdf

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>>8841581
It's also a lot of money to read books.

>>8848163
Don't have to be a cunt about it.

>>8852488
>A student of Nicolai Hartmann, Martin Heidegger, and Edmund Husserl, he later taught at St. John's College in Annapolis, Maryland from 1937 until his death.

huh, have you read any of this guy's other stuff? how's it stack up against Heidegger?

>>8840643
Good enough for Leo Strauss, good enough for me.

>>8853470
That's the spirit.

>>8853437
Not sure I'd stack him up against Heidegger? His books on Plato are full of good steady observations pulled down by the fact that he never gets anywhere beyond "By Zeus, Socrates, I don't know", but his book on Greek mathematics and his related essays are incredible and Serious Contributions. Seems more like Husserl in character. Funny enough, he married the ex-wife of one of Husserl's sons.

>>8853470
>>8853521
how's leo strauss related to the school?

>>8853989
He was part of the faculty at one point.

>>8853989
He was close friends with Jacob Klein, and Strauss, at the end of his life, was a scholar-in-residence there. He did some informal seminars on books like Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil, Thucydides' History, a few works by Xenophon, etc.

The audio recordings (and a few transcripts) of those sessions are up on the Leo Strauss Center website:

https://leostrausscenter.uchicago.edu/courses/page/2/0?order=field_year&sort=asc

>>8853989
>>8854006
>>8854035

A lot of the current faculty members at the college are also Straussians.

>>8854066
Yep, quite a few students of students.

(I think there's maybe one tutor who people would recognize as "Straussian" in a pejorative sense; the rest of them are hilarious and eccentric atheists/agnostics)

>>8854115
And careful readers :^)

>>8854140
True dat. ;^)

Maybe an off-topic question, but I think its worth asking here.
I'm applying to colleges right now, and am basing a good amount of my application off of these two novels which I wrote in the past two years. However, some of the schools I'm most interested in don't have any server to include a copy or sample of my writing (presumably, I guess, because it's not in the admission office's interests to review work like that).
I have the emails of a few of the english/creative writing professors at these colleges. Would it be arrogant, or if not, even worth it to try sending my work to them this way? Assuming it didn't complete fly past one of the professor's radar's (which it most likely would), I'm not sure whether the effort would indicate enthusiasm, naivety, or just plain overbearingness. if anyone here has thoughts on it, I'd appreciate them a lot

>>8855759
It sounds like a bad idea.
The professors have nothing to do with the admissions process.

>>8855831
this
ask your counselor for advice but otherwise I'd just make sure to mention them in your essays. It's probably better that nobody actually reads them anyways and all they hear is that you've written two novels.

>>8855759
It is probably a horrible idea. Especially if you are applying for undergrad. Let your essay be your writing sample. Do something cool with it.

>>8848163
t. 22 year old with an Ivy league degree, which means I'm special and smart in a way nobody else is