/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

>>8771831
>What Novel you read has the best Anime in prose?
Oh, absolutely Red Rising.

>>8771831
someone post the anime version of the last fight in WoR

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>>8771847
>Red Rising.


so does anime here just mean young fiction?

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Chart
h
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trahC

>>8771995
>>8772011
nice

>>8772015
Yeah, I fucked up ;--;

I am not enjoying Death's end, but the fairy tale in the middle was one of the best I've read.

I wish I could do them well. my science fiction-inspire fairy tale isn't turning out as well as that. I think it's not fantastic enough to qualify. fairy tales need magic and bizzare symbolism to them

Anybody got epubs for Spice and Wolf?

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Why do paperbacks always have boring covers?

>>8771972
It means a certain wild abandon with regards to fight scenes.

>>8772134
goddess

>>8772145
Those are practically identical to the hardback covers?

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>>8771831
>What anime in novel form should be avoided at all costs?
Pic related. Fuck house of blades anon. This is bleach, naruto and one piece all in one.

>>8771783
>Who? That literally never happens. It's just the one anon posting his crappy OC whenever someone mentions an old book.

Lurk more newfriend, your mint condition seals are still showing.

>>8772311
Dinoanon is 100% more obnoxious than anybody that knocks all new books. Besides, we mostly talk about new books.

>>8772186
>a certain wild abandon with regards to fight scenes.


you mean fun?

what are the elements needed for a story to be a fairy tale?

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>>8772276
The cover on the left is for the hardcover with library binding. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1435270282

The right one is the normal paperback. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0765322889

>>8772333
... but the paperback looks better than the hardcover. Why are you complaining again?

>>8772316
>Besides, we mostly talk about new books.
Because dinoanon stood up to the old is best meme spammers.
They shitted on bakker and then recommended chutulu and friends, Conan, and morecocks.
They also shitted on Sanderson, who is Our lord and saviour.

>>8772186
You never read a book with anime. You are just memeing. Red rising was great we need more authors like that.

>>8772337
Shittiest taste.

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Is William Gibson's new book any good? Description sounds kinda hokey.

>>8772347
Not everyone likes Sanderson-style stuff, though.

>>8772337
I'm not complaining. I own the paperback, bought it for a couple bucks at a Goodwill. If I had the choice I would prefer having a paperback with the left cover. It's just personal preference.

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QUICK

WHAT SHOULD I NAME MY TOWN IN ANIMAL CROSSING

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>>8772397
Wankh

>>8772392

My paperback has the left cover. Cover on the right is from reprinting's.

>>8772359
I didn't say anime was bad.

>>8772386
Is anything William Gibson wrote any good?

>>8772406
IMO with time I've ended up liking Neuromancer more than Snow Crash.

I liked the Blue Ant series.

So what's better? Sci Fi or Fantasy?
http://www.strawpoll.me/11749807

>>8772438
Can you go back to 9gag with questions like these?

I'm currently in the progress of watching Star Trek the Original Series. Since there about half a million Star Trek Novels are there any worth reading? I'd Imagine similar to the Star Wars ones there should be about 1 good one to every 100 terrible ones.

Anyone else struggle to finish the last books in trilogies/series once you realise how it's gonna end?

There's always like 200 pages between knowing what the ending is and seeing it happen and I rarely actually get to the end

>>8772389
>Not everyone likes Sanderson-style stuff, though.
I would if anyone was good at it

I don't really like Sanderson but nobody copying his style is even as good as him and it sucks.

Although there's loads of other modern stuff that's great

>>8772523
I more struggle with wanting to read past the first book these days. Trilogies are hot again but I often read the first one and even if I enjoyed it it's pretty rare that I'll actually pick up the next book.

The Thousand Names is a good example of that. The first book was good, I liked the characters and the muskets and the setup but I really can't be fucked going on.

>>8772400
Vance knows his audience

Why are liberal college girls with a million body modifications so attracted to Gaiman's writing?

>>8772744
I didn't know they were

>>8772744
>AESTHETIC
>E
>S
>T
>H
>E
>T
>I
>C

/sffg/, I was inspired by a series I read to make the god-given quests of the main characters involve changing their city in some way, but the ideas all seem like ripoffs of the ones in the story

the quests in the story I read were
>free fireflies from smog using wind and teleport away an oil spill
>generate a rain storm that brings the oceans back to life
>thaw a rainforest frozen by nuclear winter
>turn land of neon lights dark
>vent asyphyxiating plasmas

the quests I'm writing are are
>free stars from the streetlights by teleporting them out of unbreakable lanterns
>clearing the air and water pollution by removing the smoky flavor from the air and oily flavor from the water
>seeding a thunderstorm whose rain brings life back to the rivers and turns the streets into rainforests
>covering the entire city in a giant mural
>shifting the magnetic pole of the earth to create an aurora borealis

>>8772744
I keep hearing about his work through word of mouth and a close friend.

"Anon, did you read this one?"

>>8772438
I read both(and they are the same thing, just one is more science oriented than the other.)

>>8772785
>the flavour anon is back

If you haven't red To Kill A God by Stevian Heartbound yet then you surely must! It's probably the best sffg that's come out this year

ps: everyone shitting on it hasn't even read it

>>8772920
>And so what that I smoke weed

>>8772011
The Buried Giant is a cut above. Kazuo Ishiguro has more to say and says it better than so much fantasy fluff.
Also, he has the means to try to break your damn heart. His books should have a warning sticker on them.

>>8772920
neither have you

>>8772947
warning: same as the last one but in a new genre

For writing a hedonistic character should I mention explicitly (during the several times it occurs) that the character is withholding some truth critical to others for personal gain? or should I just allow the reader to figure out the character's motivation on their own?

>>8772865
I never left...

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>>8772744
>http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/01/25/kid-goth
>Everywhere Gaiman goes, he encounters women dressed as Death, Dream’s sister in “Sandman”: black clothing, elaborate black eye makeup, and, often, an ankh charm around the neck. (Internet critics deride Gaiman’s fans as “Twee ‘Bisexual’ Goth Girls with BPD”—borderline personality disorder—“who are drama majors and who are destined to become cat ladies.”)

I hear Mr. Gaiman is quite popular with the hoi-poloi.

>>8772996
What are the odds? His fans and his wife's fans are the exact same people

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>yfw Wolfe-sama, at some point in his life, looked like this

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>struggle with a piece of your setting, magic system, characters, etc.
>tfw the solution comes to you in a flash and solves other problems with it

>>8772996
There's a hilarious /x/-tier story of one of Gaiman's Death cosplay girls being on a plane when someone died of a heart attack.

I don't post in /sffg/. What happens in these threads?

>>8773021
succ

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>>8773021

>>8772982
Depends on their characterization so far, whether or not you're planning on a big reveal, and how the scene works either way.
If he's clearly a shifty motherfucker then you could probably just get away with implications, but jt really depends on whether the reader understanding their motivations improves the story or furthers the themes.

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>>8772996
>“Twee ‘Bisexual’ Goth Girls with BPD who are drama majors and who are destined to become cat ladies.”

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>>8773021
>prime Wolfe will never chat philosophy with you while helping you improve the efficiency of your Pringle machines

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>>8773021
>yfw he once looked like this

>>8773061
Now that's a rare Wolfe. Saved.

Marc go to bed and stop Wolfe posting.

>>8773066
urth list nigga

>>8773093
i'm at like 1998 right now

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what's the worst possible science-fantasy standalone book I can recommend to my /sff/ society to troll the heck out of them for shitting on my OC ;_;

Does anyone else think BotNS is technically impressive but really a chore to read? It's an interesting conceit to have your narrator just ignore the plot of the story but... i dunno man, it's not fair. How am I supposed to remember one line from 600 pages ago?

>write a short story
>want to submit it
>"don't submit this to anyone else while you wait, our response time is months"
>they're all like this

Fuckin' ell, it's a short story and you're just going to rejected it anyway you cocksuckers.

>>8773127
Name of the Wind, either they hate having to read it, or they enjoy it and you know for a fact that they're plebs

>>8773159
Write a lot of short stories and submit them to different publishers.

>>8773127
Eragon

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>>8773127
Anything by Piers Anthony

>>8773145
>ignore the plot of the story
Severian heading to the sticks to be a headsman isn't the plot.

>>8773145
Fucking pleb. I bet you don't even Vance.

What is the closest that comes to potter magic without actually being potter? Something where an assload of magic is used everywhere. Something that has some sort of ruleset to the magic because I read Lev Grossmans "Magicians" and there it goes: "Lot's of magicians, most kinda shitty. some really fucking good. Why? because they are really good at it, who knows" He starts of by making it all seem like it's super hard studying and training and whatnot but then it ends up being "you can feel the stars you got the power".
And even Magicians was more about slightly angsty relationships than doing cool magic, though it gets point for having it's own retarded magic sport.

How's World War Z? As a Video Game Pleb I'm kind of tired of the damn Zombies but I heard the book is much more about the political shifts that happen between countries in a Zombie apocalypse and that sounds interesting to me. Should I give it a go?

>>8773341
the book is wonderful, the movie is unrealted and god-awful

>>8773309
Yeah I know. That's my point

>>8773348
That's pretty much what turned me off from it. That and the fact that I'm a fucker who dislikes reading things after they've been made into movies because It always makes me feel like people would judge me for "oh you're only reading it because the movie came out".

Also when I both seen a movie and read the source material I can't fucking shut up about the differences.

>>8773357
Severian becoming aware of his strengths and shortcomings and his desperate need for salvation, paralleling that of Urth with its need for a new sun, is the plot. He never wavers from that.

>>8773330
Face in the Frost.
>Let's shrink ourselves and escape on this model boat! We'll fire the cannons with a spell made from a Celtic curse-word!
It's really spooky though, be warned.

>>8773358
this is probably the worst case scenario then, because not only is it different it's not even slightly related to the book

>>8773366
Huh.. well, I was under the impression that the plot is Severian is a time traveling re-incarnated version of himself from the past who failed to get the New Sun and now with the help of the hierodules and whats his name on Yesod he gets to try again

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>>8773341
The book was really neat. Max Brooks zombies are stupid but the survival stories were excellent. Make sure you check out the audiobook too, he found actors for a bunch of the different stories.

>>8773382
Severian's fallen man. The Conciliator is Jesus Christ. Everything else is just style.

>>8773371
>It's really spooky though, be warned.
I dunno man. I find that I can't be spooked. I'm not trying to be internet though guy over here, I'm actually kinda sad about it. I can get fully immersed in film and book and fully enjoy it, but when it comes to horror I'm always too aware that there is no danger at all to me, so it usually ends up just being a "meh" story for me. It's really sad because I used to be hugely into Horror games like Project Zero.

>>8773394
>always wondered about the guy
>looked it up
>turns out he actually IS related to Mel fucking Brooks
Big shoes to fill little man.

>>8773399
>Everything else is just style.
What is that supposed to mean? All of the ambiguities are deliberate and also answered in the text.

>>8773412
Mel Brooks is a hack. His actors' charisma carried his films every single time.

>>8773418
What a strange coincidence that a hack could consistently end up with a cast who manage to make popular and enduring films. Particularly when he was also in the cast himself of the most well known ones.

>>8773434
Not at all, he was obviously a brilliant networker and a good friend. That doesn't change that his films were worthless without his stars and ground to a halt every time the camera focused on him.

>>8773438
are you accusing Mel Brooks of being a jew?

>>8773438
Now you're shifting your goalposts; is it his ability to get a film together that you're critical of or his acting? Plenty of people enjoyed his small parts in space balls and blazing saddles. And they were small parts, he was hardly hogging the camera to the detriment of the films. He made good films by getting good casts together. Maybe he lacked in other areas but that still disqualifies him from "hack" status.

>>8773444
Gosh, I wonder who could get that impression from five seconds of his acting.

>>8773451
Not his ability to gather actors, his ability to put them together in a film that's memorable on its own and isn't excruciating when his once-in-a-generation charismatic geniuses turn their back for a second.

>>8773456
I think you're putting his actors on too high a pedestal. With the exception of Moranis, most of the cast members were rarely if ever in comedies similar to his.
I stand by my point however, even if you feel the films don't stand on their own, his genius was in being able to find the right people for the roles and put them in a position where they can play them well. It may not be the sort of directing that you usually appreciate but it's still one way of doing it and he clearly did it exceptionally well.

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>>8773033
Esoteric literary waifuism.

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reading pic related, almost half way through and just after Silenus' story. I really love it so far, is it going to get shit somewhere further? i would hate to be disappointed with this

>>8773610
Turns into more of a standard space opera in Fall, turns into garbage in Endymion.

>>8773614
Damn, is there any scifi series that remain decent throughout more than one or two books?

>>8773610
Ignore this(>>8773614) faggot, Fall is an excellent conclusion to the first book and is satisfying as hell even if the scale increases. If you care about the universe and characters it'll please the fuck outa ya.

But yes Endymions are shit.

So let me get this straight

"cosmere" is mistborn, elantris and way of Kings (and related works). Am I missing something?

>>8773864
Yes. Also Warbreaker and a few other short stories, e.g. Silence Divine, Sixth of the Dusk, Shadows for Silence.

>>8771831
Uh... kaladin doesn't use a sword.

>>8774212
>Uh... kaladin doesn't use a sword.
Not using the best weapon for a situation for autistic reasons is anime as fuck

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>>8773864
So far, something like that.

>>8774224
The second mistborn trilogy is four books long?

He has no editorial skill at all

>>8774223

>autistic reasons

More like cultural reasons. As a member of a lower caste in his society, he is not allowed to carry or use a sword.

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>"good" reads

>>8773864
Sanderson will make his version of the Avengers some day.

>>8774336

aka "Dragonsteel".

>the Mormon Brandon Sanderson is a one-man universe maker

>meanwhile fat atheist GRRM takes six fucking years for one book and isn't even close to done

I am not religious myself, but maybe if it gives you this kind of work ethic then we need more religious authors.

>>8774232
yes

started as a stand-alone kek

>>8774333

These kinds of reviews are the best because they inadvertently let you know which books are good.

>>8774352

I am convinced Sanderson actually killed Robert Jordan when he had nothing more to teach him, according to the Rule Of Two.

He has now surpassed his master in the art of creating an endless stream of doorstoppers. Way Of Kings is basically Wheel of Time 2 : We Need To Go Wheeler

>>8774352
It should have stayed that way. I enjoyed the first one from the 1st trilogy. The second one was atrocious.

>>8774365
Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying the Wheel of Time, but The Stormlight Archive is way deeper and better.

>>8774371

Better, yes. Deeper? No way.

Jordan's world is detailed to the point where he spends literal pages on Sea Folk porcelain and minutely describing every single item of clothing every character in the scene is wearing.

He's the master of autistic "worldbuilding."

>>8774379
In no fucking way is Jordan's imagination as rich as Sanderson's. Period.

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If I wanted to read shameless shitlord pandering garbage then what would my best choice be? Both science fiction and fantasy will do, basically I need something with luscious half naked women throwing themselves over the obvious self insert in a badly written tome about machismo and adventure. If you don't read pulp then imagine a book that pander to men instead of hambeasts and nu-males and just as hard as current award winners.

Do they still make those?

>>8773040
I should have clarified that the character is more or less a silent protagonist type, so the reader would know *some* of their inner thoughts

I also don't really want to pour on the hedonistic behavior until the second half of the work since its going to act as fuel for the climax

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>>8774423

>luscious half naked women throwing themselves over the obvious self insert in a badly written tome about machismo and adventure.

Look no further my man

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>>8774463
Is this it?

>>8774482
>it's actually about a man trying to recover his memories and the love of his wife in a well-written tome about machismo and adventure

>>8774423

Read Rothfuss then

>>8774556
But Kvothe is a Mary Sue twink and Denna or whatever her name is just cockteases him relentlessly while banging noble patrons. It's archetypal nu-male escapism

>>8774563

Yeah but there's 300 pages of him saving sex with some sex god or something

>>8774566

having sex*

>>8774566
Ah I forgot the fairy queen. I guess so, I quite liked that part, mostly for the description of her dimension and that fucked up talking tree

What are the biggest traits that define generic fantasy?

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>>8774577
>medical setting / pre gunpowder
>good vs evil / no gray morals
>swords have a name
>Robbed wizards

To name just a few

>>8774582
>medical

Meant to say medieval lol

>>8774582
But Abercrombie/Cook practically define generic fantasy and they're entirely morally gray.

>>8774582
>>medical setting / pre gunpowder
I got that.
>>good vs evil / no gray morals
>>swords have a name
>>Robbed wizards
And I don't got that. Neato.

>>8774582
>>8774600
>>8774603

GRRM shifted the paradigm. The new generic fantasy has a shitload of grey morality and gruesome death because muh realism.

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>>8774603
>>8774600

Generic fantasy is everything that follows Tolkien, so go fuck yourselves.

>Samurai in a Quasi-Medieval/Warring States setting.
Any books that has that?

>>8774635
Who pissed in your cereals this morning?

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>>8774645
I'm lactose intolerant bimbo!

>>8774670
>Cereals with lactose-free milk
>Cereals with lactose-free Yogurt
You clearly haven't been living properly up until now.

>>8774635

I always wondered, who the fuck is this guy even? The Parshendi Shardbearer giant Dalinar fights at the end of WoK?

>>8774677
The cover-art is completely off
That's not how the scene went in the book. That banner doesn't even exist

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>>8774670
You have to go back.

>>8774635
>generic fantasy is not the most common fantasy in the genre
>it is the most common fantasy in the genre circa 1988

>>8774346
Depends on the author I think. Scott Lynch has taken 10 years to release 3 books, with repeated delays and a entire prequel getting cancelled. Meanwhile his wife, Elizabeth Bear, has been releasing stuff non-stop.

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>>8774787
>10 years to release 3 books

>>8774787
His reasons are such transparent bullshit. He should just admit he's a serial procrastinator.

>>8774385
>In no fucking way is Jordan's imagination as rich as Sanderson's. Period.
Sanderson hasn't even developed a second style of protagonist after like 20 books

>>8774635
>Generic fantasy is everything that follows Tolkien
So basically just a coule of copycats after LotR got popular? Not the stream of featureless shit that's being pumped out after "nerd culture", RPG DMs and gaymers took over the genre?

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>>8774607
He also tipped the scales in favour of GRI, making it generic.

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>>8774926
>>8774917
>G.R.R.Martin
>Fantasy

>>8774926
>implying GRRM ever encounters scales

>>8774582
>Medical setting
>Good vs evil
>Scalpels have names
>Robbed wizards
Would read, a story featuring a doctor battling evil in a hospital with the help of stuff he stole from a wizard sounds neat.

God I'm reading a series about a fucking magical horse and loving it

>>8775014
>>>/mlp/

>>8775014
Never stop reading what you love :3

>>8774232
it's not even the actual second trilogy.
Mistborn was pitched as 3 ancient 3 modern 3 future

now we have 3 ancient 4 cowboys ? modern ? future

man can't fucking control himself he fucking wrote an entire novella about my waifu just to keep events straight and refuses to publish it

>>8775058

Well things did get kinda messed up after Orholam took both of the prisms in himself so I don't know but I do hope we get mistborn back

>>8775058
>he fucking wrote an entire novella about my waifu just to keep events straight and refuses to publish it
which character/world?

If you plan books, should you set up the story arcs as trilogies if you're not doing stand alone books? Is that the most traditional way of doing it?

>>8775174
No, you come up with an idea and write it.

What do you guys prefer?
>World building first, come up with story/plot/characters second
>Write down and plan story/plot/characters first, come up with world building second

>>8775192

>Build up a world
>Create history going back a thousand years, very detailed
>Make a logical way of advancement to it
>Make it interesting
>Add characters that would do things

etc

>>8775192
the latter is the objectively superior way to write an interesting and engaging story

no doubt some autists on here will argue for the former though

>>8772111
I didn't think it was as good as TDF but I really enjoyed the fairy tales. So much so I was inspired to challenge a few of my friends to write some fairy tales as a competition. I don't normally write. I've gotten a few pages in and I'm running out of steam how do people do it.

>>8775192
The most important elements of the story should be fleshed out first, whatever they are. In some stories, characters are just ways of exploring the world or broader ideas. In others the world is there to reflect the character. Ideally both are strong but this can happen no matter where you start.

>>8775174
Write your book, if it becomes too long the publishers will split it up. Write it so that the length feels right and the beats hit when they should. Don't worry about length when you write.

Alternatively write shorter more independent works and make sure they all fit into one book each.

>>8775247
tell me about the beats

>>8774582
>medical setting / pre gunpowder
Somewhat medieval but more Renaissance or Classical. Early gunpowder or quasi-gunpower, technology is runaway in main nation leading to immense economic power and population growth.
>good vs evil / no gray morals
Kind of. I mean, not really. Ultimately, evil protagonist opposed by a mix of princes- some virtuous, some virtuous but flawed, others unvirtuous, and assisted by magicians.
>swords have a name
No, and the focus is on intellectual life and 'historical' themes rather than on adventure.
>Robbed wizards
Yes, but magicians (trading for technology with 'demons', and unique to one nation) are more of a university/usurous class

>>8775192
Doesn't really matter which you come up with first.

>>8775252
It's about the natural rhythm of the text and the story you're telling. Basically you want to avoid long chapters where nothing happens or you lose the thread.

>>8775247
But don't most debut books that are too long have a higher chance of being declined by publishers?

>>8775279

Self publish.

It's working amazingly for the "To Kill A God" author

>>8775279
Probably, unless they're golden. Longer works are harder to make anyway so you shouldn't try to start off with this ridiculously ambitious and long story. Keep it short and sweet, if it's a hit then you might write a sequel but don't plan for it, always assume it's just going to be the one book unless you got a contract for more.

>>8775286
>Self publish.
Seems like an awful lot of hassle and an even bigger risk.

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>>8775138
i unironically love her

>>8774979
Perhaps the robbed wizard is good and the medical setting is evil?
>>8775192
They feed into each other. The world is a character.

>>8775367
>ideal fedora waifu developed by an extremely devout man who once spent two years preaching to Koreans
Odd world, ain't it.

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>>8775383
yep

>>8775372
Well, I thought of it as a morality story where a doctor is well intentioned but it gets awful consequences but that works too. Perhaps the wizard got robbed after helping a patient and he needs to get his magic equipment back before it is terribly misused.

Actually, you could write the story from two PoVs and get this neat layered effect. Could potentially be used for comedic effect too.

>>8775403

What a fucking stupid way to hold that sword

>Has longer range with sword than his reach
>Instead she goes up close to him
>Half of the sword is past his neck even

Is this an artist is retarded or women are retarded thing?

>>8774423
Prince of Thorns

>>8774365
A bit of an inapt comparison. Jordan got bogged down by adding more and more points of view and before he died he was just treading water with most of his characters. Sanderson at least has things happen and the story progresses with every book, but it's on a scale where if you look at it chapter by chapter nothing seems to happen. This is part of the reason he's hard to get into at first, until you've accumulated enough of the story to glimpse the bigger picture it just seems like an avalanche of words.

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>>8773302
>'To follow "landbound custom", she finds clothing and shoes (conveniently growing on trees, as is common on Xanth). Of particular concern is which panties to choose - after all, there is significant interest in the color of her panties. After trying on dozens of pairs, Mela finally decides on plaid (the color she would choose was the subject of an Impossible Question that the Demon X(A/N)th asked the Good Magician Humfrey in Question Quest).'
>This is a real book

>>8774917
Let me help you clear this up.

Death Gate Cycle:
>world divided into six generally element-based planets after a magical fiasco
>undercover agent from a race of shackled demigods roams the worlds sowing chaos
>assassin cursed to be unable to kill or die follows him in a quest for suicide
>one world has a race of mindless giants gobbling up pacifists (pre-SnK by decades)
>one world is full of dying necromancers reviving each other as slave labor
>one world is a hellscape designed by the "good" demigods to reform the "evil" ones but has itself grown an intellect which enjoys torturing them
>races do generally fall along elf, dwarf, human lines
>assassin's knife has a name
>nobody uses gunpowder
>wizards indeed wear robes
>story does have a moral curve, implying through its broad cast of flawed characters that good is better than evil
0.0001/10 generic pretty much copy-pasted Shannara

The Graveyard Book
>literally The Jungle Book except it's in a graveyard
>outside the graveyard it's generic modern day I guess
>normally "evil" creatures are shown as good and normally "good" parents are shown as evil
>no named weapons
>no robed wizards
An imaginative tour de force! This is truly a mark of the Wyrd Fiction Renaissance. How does Gaiman keep coming up with these?

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>>8775420
artist, probably. the drawing is missing the sphere bandolier and knee-hemmed dress, and the text says she points the shardblade at him and turns the tip as a threat.

it does look like they checked the text for the braid but forgot about it for everything else.

all the good artists like to draw bridgeboy or ya protag

>>8774423
The main character of Ringworld went to the Ringworld just to have sex by the looks of it. I read it years ago, so my account might not be accurate.

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>>8775444
>forgetting the braid

I feel like Shallan is unfairly maligned by /sffg/. She's actually a pretty interesting character as long as she's not talking.

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Which is the best route to go between self-publishing or traditional publishing? I've been reading up on the pros and cons of both, but I can't seem to settle on one.
On one hand, having creative freedom with titles, covers, characters, and my own story sounds great, but doing everything on my own sounds way out of my league.
On the other hand, I like the thought of getting my book out into book stores and possibly win prizes etc. but the thought of spending around 3 and a half years at least to hire an agent, be accepted by a publishing agency and actually be published is infuriating because I want to get started right away.

Any advice, guys?

>>8775473
You should try getting an agent and getting a real publishing deal before you resort to self publishing.

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>>8775457
the braid is her post-shadesmar outfit, baka.
to be fair that pic doesn't have the golden scroll hair ornament tho

>>8775461
I've read an absolute shitload of female protagonist fantasy and she's right at the bottom of the pile

"Precocious sarcastic personality masks personal tragedy" is literally the most common girl protag going and Sanderson doesn't have the dialogue or wit to pull it off

>>8775546
Who's at the top?

>>8775473
Self publishing is the way to go for a start. Will it require you to do a lot of work on your own or hire someone to help you? Absolutely, but given the fact that author platforms is one of the most important key factors to getting a publishing deal, it's better to publish and market your books on your own until a publisher comes to you. It's either that or you can go to a publisher after you've garnished enough of a cult following/readership to present a sizable and strong author platform to publishers. Good luck!

>>8775546
>Precocious sarcastic personality masks personal tragedy
And just like everybody else your criticism is rooted in her abysmal dialogue. As long as she's not talking she's actually very interesting.

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>>8775619

>>8775649
She is. She's brave, focused, diligent, and curious. And actually not all her dialogue is bad, just the parts where Sanderson tries to make her "witty." The irony is, that's supposed to be Shallan's "real" personality (contrasted to her meek, studious wallflower personality) yet it feels more stilted and unnatural than Shallan the brusque scholar. I think she was best down in the chasms with Kaladin, but pretty much any time when she was pressed hard and backed into a corner reveals an interesting side to her.

I just wish Sanderson would realize he can't write real witty dialogue. Shallan is probably the most egregious offender, but most of his characters that try to be witty just come off as obnoxious.

>>8775683
I thought Wayne was okay, but I could not stand Lightsong

>>8775683
Rank shitty sanderson witty characters

Hoid
>What's wet, ugly, and has scars on its arms?

Lightsong
>shit

Shallan
>humor is shit, thinks she's a ya protagonist. has her occasional moments stabbing tyn, not being able to into money

Lift
>10 years old
>tower looks like a dick

Wayne
>tries way too hard. even more so than normal for sandyman

>>8775086
>Orholam
You are mixing up Brent Weekes and Sanderson.

>>8775514
>>8775444
>>8775403
We are talking about Jaznah right? I hope it's not witty gril.

>>8774787
>Meanwhile his wife, Elizabeth Bear
I think you mean new wife, it was the old one cucking him, his house, and his bank books that fucked up the release of books, and the depression that followed afterwards.

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>>8775948
shallan isokay I guess.Jasnah a best.

>>8775014
Better not be that shit the last unicorn that was memed to me here.

>>8775286
Hi stevian

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I just started the 4th book of Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun.

I took a break after the Claw of the Conciliator to read Neuromancer (which I did not connect with at all) and then returned to Sword of the Lictor which was probably the most plot driven book of the series so far.

I'm going to be honest in my assessment. At first I didn't like the series at all up until maybe halfway through Claw but while reading Neuromancer I realized how much better written Wolfe's series is.

I don't know if anyone else has felt this way where a series grows on them but BotNS really has grown on me.

If anyone would like to talk about it, I'd love to.

Forever War: y/n?

>>8776237
I've only read shadow of the torturer, but it took me waaaay longer than a ~300 page book should have. Mostly because I just dont "get it'?
Like a lot of the shit just seems to just happen with no bearing on anything really. I'm also thinking it may grow on me so i've taken a break before going back to Claw

>>8776256
Maybe.

>>8776117
Nah one of Mercedes Lackey's books

Not complex but it's a great demonstration of what Rithmatist lacked as an easy read about a magic school

>>8775921

No

>>8776263
Yeah, I get how you would feel that way.

Wolfe seems to be subverting a number of genre cliches and he throughout the first two books seems to set up a number of possible quest lines that in another series would be the focus but most of them either disappear or are dead ends.

Having finished the third book, I can tell you that it really does put the first two in perspective and you have a much clearer sense of how this story is developing.

Wolfe seems to be intent on cultivating in the reader's mind a clear sense of place and of the temperament of Severian. He really is just a sheltered young boy that was thrust out into a world that, like the reader, he does not fully understand. Routinely throughout Shadow and Claw, Severian will pick up and drop questlines as well as change allegiances, most of which seems to be him not fully understanding these situations and having them sort of self destruct around him.

As I was reading the third it seemed as though Severian finally reached his nadir and by the end of that book he seems like he finally does understand something about the greater situation of the world in which he lives. I don't want to spoil anything so I'm not going to say much more but I do think you should continue.

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>>8776362
>mfw he takes off his shoes
Worth every minute.

>>8776277
>Mercedes Lackey's
Weren't you hating on her books in the last thread or before?

>>8776237
>thanks for reading my blog

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>>8776362

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>>8776294
Yes you did, mistborn and prisms don't go together.

>>8776401
>>8776410
Ah, yes. Neo-/lit/. Completely uninterested in actually discussing literature in any form other than pithy or dismissive phrases and memes.

>>8776419

Stop fuck my brain it is no you wrong

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REMOVE SRANC remove sranc.
you are worst tekne. you are the sranc abomination you are the sranc smell. return to agongorea. to our kyranean cousins you may come our false men mansion. you may live in the mediel screw….ahahahaha ,golgoterath we will never forgeve you. rascal FUck but fuck asshole sranc stink bashrag consult consult..sranc genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead sranc..ahahahahah CONSULT WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget apocalypse .cil-aujas we kill the king , nonmen return to your precious mansions….hahahahaha idiot sranc and nonmen smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE SRANC FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. Kunuiri+Aorsi+Eamnor+Meori+Kyraneas=kill consult…we will ordeal, titirga alive in cil-aujas, titrga gnosis in cil-aujas.. . deep gnosis titrga meorn. we are in mansion and have nimil now hahahaha ha because of gin'yursis… you are evil stink sranc… you live in a arc hahahaha, you live in a horn

titirga alive numbr one #1 in meorn….fuck the kuniuri ,..FUCKk ashol srancs no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur arc and no-god. titrga aliv and real strong wizard kill all the sranc farm aminal with gnosis magic now we the meori rule . leader of the mangaecca shauriatus fukc aurang and lay egg this egg hatch and no-god wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of sranc. meorn greattst nation

5 MONTHS TILL THE UNHOLY CONSULT

>>8776420
I like discussing books, but when it's just the one autist wanting to discuss botns for the nth time it gets annoying.

I don't want to read about Wolfe's Christian nuances and subtle hidden gems. Botns was enjoyable but I'm not gonna discuss it EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THREAD.

Get some variety... unless you are one of those that read the same published-before-1990 books over and over again, and don't want to discuss nothing but those books.
In that case, god help you.

>>8776467
just ignore it then?

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>>8776461
Dear god... the hype shill anon is back.....
>5 more months of this

>>8776486

THE GREATEST FANTASY SERIES OF OUR TIME RETURNS IN 5 MONTHS....

>>8776476
I did, hence >>8776410
Not my fault he got triggered.

What would you guys say is the best Gene Wolfe short story collection?>>8776467
You seem unreasonably pooper peeved.

>>8776467
You are not required to read the things I post. I am posting them for the people that do want to talk. Also it's not like Wolfe is overdiscussed anywhere.

There's very little discussion anywhere on here about anything of substance for that matter so the fact that you seem so violently opposed to it that you feel the need to post about it is patently ridiculous if you ask me.

>>8776496
None since they're all bad.

>>8775619
>As long as she's not talking she's actually very interesting.


that's how I feel about lift. I don't fucking think i could make it through a whole book focused just on her.

The Scar or Embassytown?

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>>8776534
No worries, just a third of the book by page count at most.

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>>8774232
Wat.

He accidentally another book while writing Shadows of Self which is why we have 4, not 3.

>>8775367
Why did I always envision Jasnah with red hair?

>>8775441
Death Gate was great, nigger.

>>8775782
Wayne is easily Sanderson's best character.

>>8775822
>tower looks like a dick
I laughed at this one. Really wasn't expecting it from our boy. He's getting ballsy

>>8776256
My recollection of Forever War was that it started well and then lost steam because of all the time dilation. There would be an interesting situation (like the small farm which has to be defended from marauders) but then there would be a time change with new characters. I realise this is due to the plot, but the book feels too wishy-washy and bitty.

I didn't really care for the protagonist either, which is a problem in a book written in the first-person. He is a stoic and even-handed feIlow, and while these are admirable qualities it does make the character uninteresting. I didn't like The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress for similar reasons.

It might also be the case that military SF isn't my thing, in which case disregard whatever I say. The lengthy passages about military hardware left me feeling bored, as did the battles.

>>8776486
Nah, that's someone else.

I'll be back around ~a month before release. Please look forward to it

>>8776535
If scar's the boat one that one

>>8776562
>Death Gate was great, nigger.
That's the joke.
>pic
Why don't the chroniclers have their own names for all of these stars, presumably in a language more like their own and easier to pronounce?
>Roshar is a continent, a planet, and a star system because the backwards premoderns on it have so much personality lol
What a copout.

>>8776577
I liked the hardware and the science of it, how they keep finding tiny changes in how physics actually works that mean they have to start from the drawing board again. The all-powerful government that never runs out of steam or is subverted even though the Taurans never ever attack Earth rocked my suspension of disbelief right out the window, even if everyone being gay and brown was a neat way to show disconnect. I know he intended the book as part-satire, but like you said, that doesn't redeem it being a poor experience.

The book was about Haldeman having a crappy time in Vietnam and wanting us to feel his pain. I wasn't convinced.

>>8776577
At it's base The Forever War is a allegory for the dissociation felt by American soldiers/the author returning home from Vietnam. You leave for a tour of duty, come back and find that the hippie movement and so on are fully underway. American Society has changed a large amount in the the time you've been gone.

That said, I can't take it seriously because in a lot of ways it just feels like "Grandpa's terrifying vision of the overpopulated future where everybody is a gay atheist mulatto."

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So, just finished this
Anyone wanna tell me what they thought about it? I'm honestly not sure I'm gonna read The Wizard if it's like it's predecessor
I don't know, felt like it lacked a central focus and while I can enjoy a story that's more about a character and a world they explore and I do like Able's growth over the story it just feels like nothing actually HAPPENS in the story

Is this just Gene Wolfe's writing style or is this just one of his weaker works and the fantasy general chart lied to me?

I'm close to finishing the Age of Fire series by EE Knight. I read the Temeraire series and I liked the Age of Fire novels a bit more since they are about the dragons more than the people.

Anyone have recommendations for GOOD dragon-based books?

/lit/ I come to you in my time of need. What are some genuinely horrifying or disturbing science-fiction or fantasy book?

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>tfw video game season is ruining my book reading schedule.

>>8775968
is bear a downgrade or upgrade?

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>>8776596

>>8776498
You're new aren't you?
I was here since the first general, I've posted in every single general. It has been discussed ad nauseam, if absolute marc returns let him tell you about it sometime.

>>8772785
Homestuck is shit and you should not base your writings on it.

>>8776902
Twig has a whole lot of body horror, but it's biopunk, so that's par for the course. it's by the author of worm, so you can find it online. It's like the boxcar children except the children are experiments and the mysteries they're sent to solve are espionage/assassination missions.

Harrison Bergeron really scared me as a fifth-grader. Doesn't do it for me now but if you're on 4chan you're probably susceptible to it. If you like that, look into the two dystopian classics 1984 and Brave New World.

Sanderson's short Sixth of the Dusk is nice and tense, as is The Priest's Tale from Hyperion. The Music of Erich Zann is the best thing Lovecraft ever wrote.

hope you like at least one of these, anon. good luck~

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>>8776544
>lift has more screen time than jasnah

>>8772785
homestuck had, at different points, various redeeming qualities: dialog, character development, plot, clever use of motifs - and you pick fucking land quests? you're not even a good plagiarist. what made it work (for a given value of work) was the update speed and the characters themselves.

homosuck is the only redeeming part of the story, and i guarantee you do not have the talent to write homosuck. nobody did, not even andrew hussie.

now go make your own ideas.

>>8776829
The Wizard Knight is meant to be one book. I dunno why they split it.

The Wizard ties everything together.

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How do you git gud at writing sci-fi? Where do you go for worthwhile critique so you don't end up swimming in rejection letters?

>>8777019
More POV time, but I'd estimate at least 5% of Shallan's wordcount had Jasnah in it, not to mention Navani and Wit's.

>>8773610
why the fuck can dan simmons not write sequels
illium is fucking amazing and I can't even be bothered to remember the sequel's name
just really pisses me off
and makes me sad

>>8776989
Don't know, never knew the old wife, and still don't know the new one.

>>8777046
Nobody knows how to avoid rejection letters. The best advice anyone can give you is to get good at writing in general. There are some big fora out there but I don't go to those because I don't write enough

>>8777046
>How do you git gud at writing sci-fi?

You've already failed. It's like going to /ic/ and wanting to know how to draw animes.

Try gitting gud at writing first. Once you stop sucking asshole, you can start writing about spaceships and alien titties.

>Where do you go for worthwhile critique

Get books on writing. Use the critiques therein to help edit your own drafts with a red pen. This will help you get a better eye for improving your own work.

Anything out there like ASOIAF? I'm in the mood to waste a lot of time. Can be sci fi

>>8777038
I'll take your word for it and maybe buy the Wizard one day, I really feel like this was lacking in an actual focus. I mean I bought it for like $3 so I'm not losing much but damn

>>8772506
pls respond.

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>>8777072
>Anything out there like ASOIAF?
Unfinished garbage? Pedo erotica written by a fat hippie? Bloat: The Series? Which aspect of it do you want more of?

>>8777011
>Twig
It's on my reading list though I haven't gotten around to it yet as I want to finish Pact first. I may have have to switch it around though.

>1984 & Brave New World
I've read them and they were interesting.

>Sanderson
That's the one with the Shrike isn't it? Seems interesting enough.

>Lovecraft
I couldn't call myself a fan of horror if I hadn't read all of Lovecraft's works or least the Mythos ones.

Thanks you for the recommendations I think they fit what I was looking for.

on a guess I'd say he wants large scale stories working on personal as well as political levels that are not afraid to kill off really good characters.

>>8777136
Can't go wrong with Mazalan then or The Black Company.

>>8777052
Makes sense. I get the issue is with me, the goal isn't to avoid rejection letters. I phrased my initial question awfully. Polite sage for off-topic and blogposting.

>>8777068
Fuck you, m8.
Also, thank you. Shit like this is why I stay here so I don't get the usual spiritual, esoteric bullshit people typically spout.

I figured poor-ass grammar was half the reason why I wasn't doing so well. I picked up The Elements of Style on Amazon this morning, actually. What do you recommend on the subject of storytelling in specific?

>>8777133
go fucking read twig. right now. pact just gets worse and worse and has an unsatisfying ending. wildbow finally learns pacing in twig.

>>8777133
>Sanderson
>Shrike

That's Dan Simmons' Hyperion (book 1 of 4 is great, the other 3 books are only okay)

>>8777153
Not him, but Orson Scott Card's Character and Viewpoint, Ursula K. Le Guin's Steering the Craft, Diana Wynne Jones' Reflections on the Magic of Writing. Avoid Stephen King's book, it's crap.

>>8777192
>Stephen King
Go figure.

>>8777136
meant to reply to >>8777122

>>8777153
strunk and white are better than nothing, but not by much. grammar is the equivalent of technical artistry: pure clean notes on a violin or deft lines in a comic. both of these things (notes, lines) are heavily stylized in schools and further differentiated by individual artists or even works.

so the natural solution is to go back to the basics - except the basics aren't codified the way their analogous structures are in art or music. there is definitely a standard but it's tremendously diffuse, so picking up on it means filtering through a whole lot of stuff.

read widely and intensely.

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>>8777153
>What do you recommend on the subject of storytelling in specific?

You're jumping ahead of yourself. Start by writing short stories and vignettes. Don't focus on getting that sci-fi/fantasy/steampunk epic out of your head and onto bookshelves - it's probably garbage anyway. Start small. Worrying about plot structure is like worrying about how much test to pin when you set foot inside a gym the day before.

As for books, read pic related. It's written by a guy that rejects manuscripts for a living. The entire book is him pointing out things that signal an amateur, so use it to brutally critique your short stories and edit them until they stop sucking.

Ignore everything in this post >>8777192

"Plot" books are like writer's workshops. They're just masturbation sessions for wannabe writers who fantasize about that big manuscript that will have them "living the literary lifestyle" once it hits bookstores.

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>>8776897
;3

>>8777037
It's not the only thing I ripped off, but you're right, I'm a shitty plagiarist and probably a shitty writer too.

My love of that stupid fucking comic was so goddamn multifaceted. I was awed not just by the stupid planets and land quests, which I subconsciously combined with my home city and tales of hidden speakeasies and dead drops, but by the mythology, the symbolism and philosophical underpinnings, and the weaving of a kudzu plot like some rich and complicated tapestry

in the end, I only came up with a huge fucking ripoff beyond any hope of redemption, and I can only move past it by abandoning the things that inspired me. However if I take that step I'm going to lose all the passion I put into my work, and I will be dead certain that nothing I ever create will capture someone the way a shitty webcomic captured me.

So yeah, I'm doing it anyway, not because what I'm doing is good or original, but because it changed so much of me that I don't know if there's anything left of me that it hasn't affected

>>8777488
Get yourself an education, brother. There's so much more out there.

The Lift novella wasn't that bad after all. Very by-numbers Sanderson, but Szeth was pretty cool. The Edgedancer oath was faggotty though, "I will listen to those voices that are marginalized by the patriarchy" or something.

Not just scifi and fantasy, but books as an escapist pleasure seem like a dead end to me. There are SO MANY books out there already, and they've been severely derivative and lacking in unique substance for decades and decades already.

Is there any point in trying to break into the medium with your own work?

>>8777516
I have a bachelor of science in computer science, and also studied religion and anthropology (two guesses why) in college. I read wikipedia articles on particle physics and have spent days trying to understand them. I cook ridiculously convoluted recipes that I created off the top of my head and have even delved into molecular gastronomy and food science. I spend a minimum of half an hour reading every day with a strong preference for fairy tales, mythology and magical realism

and despite all of these things I've put in my head, every single one of them has has been touched or tainted by my experience with homestuck

Now I'm trying to fit all of them into a mythology of my own creation, but at the end of the day i'm not the one creating it. I'm just reorganizing it into a copy of an image i've already seen before in my head, an image that I can't get out

>>8777530
>they've been severely derivative and lacking in unique substance for decades and decades already.
Can you pinpoint when this happened? And how it's different from the other times it's been said?

>>8777550
>Can you pinpoint when this happened?
I don't know when it started. Anyone with eyes should be able to see how saturated the market is nowadays though. There has been market oversaturation since at least the 60s when new wave SF began picking up speed.

Not to say there aren't still diamonds in the rough, or that this wasn't always the case. There has always been derivative works, many of which are forgotten and not included in our history books anymore. But at the same time, the world has changed. The different level of technology has meant wider spread literacy in the world and wider spread access to literature. I don't think it's crazy to claim that the market for escapist literature is much larger than it ever was. Which means there's even more derivative works we have to sift through. So many books I have looked over going back as far as the 60s feel forced and uninspired.

god, there is nothing original in my work. I'm completely empty of anything that's me

>>8777581
You're talking about market saturation, not idea saturation. The market saturation started in 1977 with Lester Del Rey's acquisition of The Sword of Shannara. Original ideas are still out there because original things are still being created, not just in literature but in all areas of life and society.

>>8777585
>implying there is some mystical you-force that must be present for your work to be original
>implying art is just for manic pixie snowflakes with cheap individuality
>implying authenticity is not also found in the details
Sartre ought to be exhumed and hanged.

>>8777581
>So many books I have looked over going back as far as the 60s feel forced and uninspired.
The ability to find uninspired books is not new to the Information Age, anon.

>>8777593
>You're talking about market saturation, not idea saturation.
They really go hand in hand in this situation, since books are almost purely about ideas. You can't tell me that the ratio between original ideas and derivative ones found in escapist literature isn't something like 1 to a thousand, generously speaking.

>>8777600
I wouldn't want to, but that's not what you said.

>>8777593
It's literally nothing but a massive homestuck ripoff set in new york with all the characters representing fundamental forces! It's a bad joke!

>>8777606
then write something else instead of sucking up to anons for attention you faggot

>>8777617
I can't. I've spent a year planning this until it's etched into my psyche. At best I can try and tone down the plagiaristic aspect but I can't scrap it

>>8777627
Scrap it, shelve it, spend sixty years cutting out pictures from magazines to illuminate it while you waste away in your apartment, but whatever you do stop crying to us.

>>8777585
Not knowing yourself well in the beginning is part of life and is a very commonly encountered problem even for writers. Just keep writing. You might, like some other authors, "discover" yourself over time after finishing several books, and develop your own style and content.

Also, feeling disappointed in your own work is healthy for a creative. The important thing here is that you finish things. Don't leave too many things unfinished, no matter how bad you think they are, even if you catch on to their underwhelming quality before you're done. Persevere regardless. It's part of a ritual you should want to complete. When you see it to the end, you will be able to reflect on it as a whole without anything clouding your judgment (like you constantly reminding yourself that you somehow "failed" hence why you gave up half way).

How true is it that Glen Cook's style is very sparse when it comes to giving details about locations and such?
I see people often recommend The Black Company and I actually like the concept, but I have sort of a shit imagination and a very simplistic description of events might be a dealbreaker for me.

Okay, figured out how to fix it by just emphasizing another idea that sort of fell into the background during the concept stage

5 characters seek out old gods listed in a storybook they all read as children, agreeing to have one wish granted in exchange for completing a series of herculean tasks.

>>8776544
>how_to_identify_the_books_autistics_like.png

>>8777543
See if you can combine witcher(believable faire tales) with mr norrell and Jonathan strange (footnotes making one believe it really happened)

>>8777929
never played the former, couldn't enjoy the pedantry of the latter. I've got my idea and I'm 8000 words in. Only problem is it's not going the direction I want it to, but maybe that's a good thing, or maybe I just need to change it

>>8777520

Well, they are called EDGE dancers.

Is there any book about a creature as ancient as the universe trying to find out what created it and why when nothing else like itself exists?

I feel like it's less about winning a lottery to become as famous as the big names with your book(s), and more about doing something really new according to the main chunk of readers.

>>8774346
>deriving a principle
>from single, carefully selected examples
You sure you aren't religious?

>>8775312
Print-on-demand lowers the risk. You no longer have to pay for 1000 copies in advance.

>>8777520
I liked how szeth's first reaction to having to fight another radiant again was basically "lol no, fuck that"

>>8777946
>played
It's a book numbnuts

>>8777993
Kinda library at mount char, kinda. Like 1% of it.

>>8776461
>5 MONTHS TILL THE UNHOLY CONSULT
Wait raelly? So soon?

>>8773061
This is the rarest Wolfe I've ever seen, thanks lad.
>>8773399
Severian is the Conciliator. Christ didn't come in person to his universe from what I gathered.
>>8773382
That's the plot, but it's not the point. He made the point very, very clear, but the plot is obscured. The whole Aquinas fan fiction is felt throughout the novel, on an instinctive level.
>>8774873
That's because he's an awful, untalented writer for plebs or at best stuff you read while shitting.
>>8776496
Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories and Innocents Abroad were my favourites.
>>8776467
I only discuss Wolfe because he's one of the few science fiction authors worth discussing.
Most literature is pre 1990 so by the time you exhaust it you'll have read what 20k books?

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>>8776467
>I don't want to read about Wolfe's Christian nuances and subtle hidden gems.
If it isn't Christian I ain't interested, atheists suck at writing.

>>8778545
>he doesn't love Beckett
Pleb

>>8778545
That kind of makes sense, you have to have a vast imagination to believe any of the made up bullshit in the bible and Jesus.

>>8778563
This general has a very distinctive difference in language compared to the rest of the board. The lower intelligence is obvious at a glance. Fedoras are uncommon as they are the mark of an intellectually stunted individual.

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>>8778563
What's it like being ten in this day and age? You into them pokeymans, sonny? Your parents still married?

>>8778578
>>8778580
Oh no, someone told me Santa isn't real. Better get defensive or my world view will shatter.

>>8778607
How do you know I'm a Christian? I was just remarking on your stupidity and the general stupidity of many posters of the general, not the falsehood of religion.

>>8778618
Because you are, pretty simple. No one except religious nutjobs that are afraid of facing reality gives a shit enough to comment.

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>>8778629
Hey, relax. Why not read a book mien fruend?

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>>8778607
t. Fedora Pro

>>8778671
averagechristian.jpg

>>8778842
>>8778842
>>8778842
NEW
>>8778842
>>8778842
>>8778842

>>8778618
Pretty simple. Christians always think they are brighter than they are because they believe they have some deeper insight into whatever. At the same time they misrepresent (to put it very, very mildly) or outright ignore the results of science and logic. Christians also excel at character assassination against those who are not "with them".