Túrin, son of Húrin Thalion, Lord of the Folk of Hador, and

The shit it was based on was just as "edgy". There's tons of stuff like that in "real" mythology

someone post the 'im from /v/' starter pack

lord of the rings is harry potter from 1954. it's the standard everyone looks to just because it's popular. it's okay that it's the standard, and it's an okay work. has its merits. it's just like star trek. go ahead and enjoy it, but don't get caught up in making sense of every little thing. i've never understood how people can entertain themselves with the LOTR lore. you dig and dig for connections that inevitably hit dead ends, you dig a thousand feet to get to a 2x2 room. "now what?"

>>8718827
"edginess" didn't even exist as a concept before le cool post-modern ironic cynicism. Certainly not when Aethelfrith, Caedwallon and Ragnvaldr were composing the stories that Tolkien drew influence from

>>8719408
>i've never understood how people can entertain themselves with the LOTR lore. you dig and dig for connections that inevitably hit dead ends, you dig a thousand feet to get to a 2x2 room. "now what?"
It's not about the room, it's about the dig itself.

>>8719408
It just doesn't occur to most people that the characters they should be identifying with most are the orcs.

If you don't find any connection in The Lord of the Rings to the real world be assured, you are deeply deluded about yourself and everything else.

>>8718827
This isn't "being edgy". This is Tolkien working on a conscious model of the 'brainstem' of our culture. Sure everyone basically thinks this culture is descended from Rome and Greece. Maybe it is for the elite of the elites, but for most of us we are descended more truly from germanic/nordic cultures, which Tolkien seems to imply are a more direct line to whatever singular greatness spawned all civilization (I agree very much).

This "edginess" is what has gotten people's attention for a long time. The extreme cases are always more interesting, obviously, so this 'meme' about "edginess" seems very "edgy" itself and therefore very stupid.

Anyway Tolkien knew how to tell a "good story" because he understood the history of storytelling and made his work a function of our subconscious.
But he obviously didn't find the motivation to go through all that just from the desire to make a bedtime story.

His political views are obvious. His point of view on power is obvious. And he makes a compelling case that is easily supported with rationale.

This book is an antidote. For some hard cases of delusion it is bitter medicine. My advice: stop crying and just take it. Read it through and quit being an "edgy" contrarian idiot.

>>8719547
by "this book" I mean The Lord of the Rings

>>8719519

i enjoyed the books but don't have any strong feelings towards them, i didn't connect to it. what is it i am missing? even the most cursory explanation please. you say it has value i don't see and i'd like to better myself.

>>8719462

Ah! I agree with you, if we were talking about Ulysses. Digging into that book is fascinating. I don't feel that at all with LOTR. It's just some guy's mythology to me.

>>8719577
Sauron is a centralized imperial power with many similarities to the western government.
The ring (and palantiri) were the backbones of his empire. They might correspond to the media, social hierarchy, and economic system.

There are many, many correspondences to identify.
For example, don't any people remind you of orcs? Drinking, cursing, weaseling bastards that seem to exist for the sole purpose of work (slaves)?
Problem is that most people are this way and it never occurs to them the contrast between the good people and the way they live their own lives. They are just too intellectually dormant to even begin to consider or care that they do anything wrong, let alone have a destructive way of life with very little to no redemption.

>>8719547
I agree with what you said and you put it beautifully desu but it also has to be added that the "theological" frame of Tolkien's lore was built on undeniably Biblical themes. He himself called his work "self-consciously Catholic Christian". I really wasn't happy to accept that but one has to.

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>>8718827

Hurin's imprisonment is probably one of the best concepts he played with. Anyone reading from the perspective of a parent who's kid is fucking up probably reads the entire book with a scope that makes all the "edgy" shit seem entirely the unfortunate decisions of dumb kids.

Every time he changes names it's like he's at a low level college changing majors.

>>8719622
I believe I understand what you're saying, but it still has no impact on me. It all seems somewhat obscure. One can certainly grab hold of those assessments but for me neither profundity nor poignancy are fully incubated, let alone hatched by the actual writing. It's entertainment. It's like reversible shorts or something. Still seems to be short pants, no matter which side you're wearing out.

I consider LOTR to be like any holy book. Good intentions and it reaches people but anything of value they say could be said more clearly and concretely. Not that it has no value, but that it is greatly overvalued.

>>8719672
okay, name an alternative.

>>8719689
I said that what it is being said to have said could be better said, not that I personally am in possession of said better saying. LOTR's value is the same whether it is compared to something else more valuable or less valuable, whatever that might be.

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>>8718827
You should kill yourself.

My argument is two-fold.

First, you are an irredeemable vulgarian idiot of the highest order, and thus can neither contribute nor gain anything worthwhile in life.

Second, since you are also no more than 12 years old, in killing yourself now you would be capable of providing the 1 noble service left to you, to spare the world as much much of your existence as is permissible. Every day you hesitate is a tragedy.

>>8719700
if you have no example of the same being said better, then how do you know it is possible and why do you profess that it is so?

seems like you have no world view so you shit on anything that expresses one

>>8719373
Yeah but here the source material is basically the same but without the super twisted and dark names

Has anybody read the proper Tolkien rendition of the Kullervo myth? Is it any good?

>>8719643
>H. Mussolini

Turin is an edgy teenager. It's intentional. His persecution complex is the prime motivator for the plot.

>>8719547
>for most of us we are descended more truly from germanic/nordic cultures, which Tolkien seems to imply are a more direct line to whatever singular greatness spawned all civilization (I agree very much)
He doesn't at all imply that, in fact he was highly critical of pre-Christian germanic culture. Read The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

>>8718827
Shitty fanart. Couldn't even get the sword right