STEM major here wondering if it's worth the trade off of

That depends on which stem degree you're going for. A lot of them aren't very useful and you'd be better off in lit/ philosophy/history whatever

The conventional wisdom these days about being a writer is that it shouldn't be your main job. Even setting aside nebulous pessimism about how everyone is a retard these days and wouldn't recognise real literature, the market is demonstrably, empirically dominated by a VERY small handful of topics that are virtually guaranteed to get published. Anything else is an exception and a rarity. Even once you get published, you still won't make any money from it. At best it gives you a small amount of momentum toward writing more books and eventually becoming profitable.

During my grad orientation at university, they had an editor or publishing exec from Penguin come and talk to us, among a couple people in academic publishing. After the academic publishers told us how much of a slog it is to get academic work published, the Penguin guy told us that the commercial market can be very good for certain books, like if you're writing an ethnography of something contemporary and exciting (let's say the Arab Spring), using contemporary and exciting sources, and you can give it a personal twist and cut out a lot of the difficult stuff. Other than that, he said that only things that really get published these days in America are soldiers' memoirs, young adult vampire fiction, romance novels for ladies, and cookbooks.

Like I said, even putting aside vague bohemian sentiments, the market just empirically fucking sucks. You could write something amazing and no one would notice whatsoever. Most publishers are looking for profitable franchises, not hidden gems. Of the publishers looking for hidden gems, most of them are looking for ethnic gems, stories about subaltern identity politics and shit like that.

If you audit some creative writing courses you'll see two things. First, you'll see how fucking retarded most people who are trying to be writers are. Second, you'll see that they all have more tenacity and less self-awareness than you despite being retarded, and that you will constantly be shouting over these people to be heard.

If you have nepotistic connections you can get a lot of help though. Just look at the rich hipster cunts and Oxbridge champagne socialists /lit/ likes to post about, because their daddies knew a guy who knew a guy in publishing.

>>8687072
Seems the problem these days is less people overall are reading literature, and those that do think they're special snowflakes who are going to come out with some modern masterpiece.

It's all about what you need to be happy.

Reading makes me happy so my life is fairly enjoyable and low stress and I don't have to worry about faggy job responsibilities and the rat race etc.

On the other hand, most people want money and status which the humanities will not bring you, speaking generally, since the humanities us really an exploration of why the pursuit of status is futile.

So are you a status craving mammonist and a cold blooded materialist, or do you have loftier pursuits?

>>8687018
>STEM major here wondering if it's worth the trade off of security to major in /lit/ or creative writing

I thought STEM majors were smart

Well, it depends. You can still make decent amounts of money from an English or CW degree, but the problem is that it won't be from writing itself. I have an English degree, and went into law (which makes me more money than a STEM degree could, with the opportunity cost of another three years). I liked getting the English degree. It was probably the time of my life I most enjoyed--I improved my writing and my reading, and hung out with pretty cool people.

Even without any grad school, if your degree is from a top-tier school, you could get sweet jobs in finance if you put in some effort.

You're probably fucked otherwise.

>>8687135
Well said!

>>8687072

>Oxbridge champagne socialists /lit/ likes to post about

Who are these 'Oxbridge champagne socialists' you speak of?

>>8687018
>STEM major here wondering if it's worth the trade off of security to major in /lit/ or creative writing.
No. You can still write and read in your spare time. You have to be truly humble and recognise when you're shit, and do a lot of close analysis to see what makes good writing good. There's not any easy way to do that, other than reading and writing a shit-tonne. Even a creative writing course won't really teach it to you. Being STEM gives you a more healthy perspective of the game also (you don't have your eggs in one basket). And as the anon above said, the publishing industry is fucking broken at the moment. "Literary standards" are in the toilet. This isn't a matter of uptight whitey yelling about how women and gays have ruined tradition/the revolution, it's simply a fact.

>>8687157
>which makes me more money than a STEM degree could, with the opportunity cost of another three years
yeah bro, because law school is free and every law grad makes more than every "stem" grad.

>>8687321
Obviously you have to weigh the risk and cost of law school against potential outcomes. But the LSAT is completely learnable, and lots of schools who offer good shots at biglaw, where you'd make the most money, give out decent scholarships.

I just used law school as an example. I'm sure there are plenty of other grad degrees you can get that'll make you some money. The less you make, of course, the harder it is to justify not just finishing the STEM undergrad.

>>8687018

I got into lit in HS and threw STEM out the window. Wasn't interested, hated it, was shit at it too. Somewhere deep inside I regret those days and wish I could've been born as someone interested in subjects and trades that lead to high-paying jobs.

I got involved in the local literary community when I was around 16. Just hung around a writers' association's café and bar. Talked to published authors, journalists and people working for publishers. Read what was recommended. Made friends.

Right now I study lit at a uni. I keep networking. Of all the people I know, it's my HS literature teacher who helped the most. She's a part-time journalist herself so she could get me a spot in a paper. A single article, for a small sum of money. After 6 years of living for literature and being involved with the community. All the other journalists I know turned out useless regarding this.


What I've learned so far:

-Most writers -even those who take it seriously and got their works published- have a daytime job and live like literature and writing is just a hobby. They need money, and they can't get that by just writing.

-Publishers look for cash and not literary value. Your work either conforms to the demand of readers, or you're out of luck.

-Talented writers who put literature above everything else get fucked by life. No value on the job market.

-The only option you can always count on with an English/lit degree is being a teacher. Lots of work, shitty pay, but it's a step above baristas and Burger King workers.

-Networking is everything, yet it's not worth shit basically. You might have connections, but all they can do is endorse you or give advice on your writing. Hell, I'm friendly with dozens of people working in publishing and that's all they can do, too. They put in a good word for you, but in the end it's the big dogs who decide your fate, and they're not the kind of people to be actually involved in literary life. To them, it's business first, literature comes second.

-Contemporary readers are mostly HS-college aged people reading for enjoyment, and to them literature is like any other kind of entertainment, be it music or television. They want shallow works that are easy to digest. They don't want to spend time pondering on the literary value of a book. They want to read it, they want to enjoy it. Not later, reflecting on the story, trying to decipher the meaning and creating an opinion, but as they read. They don't want a Tolstoy or Hemingway, they want an Ernest Cline.

>>8687538
-The literary community -in my case consisting of profs, aspiring writers and writers, journalists, people working at publishers and just people who want to be involved because of their love for literature- is very accepting, but you need a certain mindset to make it work. You need to show willingness to improve, for one, instead of acting like you're the shit who's going to get published by 25, living like a rockstar afterwards. We've seen that dozens of times.

-Journalism is a great way to write, even though it's not necessarily "creative". Easier to get into, easier to find a position. It's still hard compared to engineers or doctors and the like, but it's still easier to write for a paper than to get published.