It seems like everyone I know is on a constant quest to improve

>>8653629
normal life.

>>8653629
Capitalism

>>8653632

I don't think two or three generations ago people were obsessing over trace element intake and sleep cycles down to the minute.

>>8653629

It's basically streamlining, making oneself maximally compatible with their surroundings instead of undergoing organic and sometimes painful growth.

>>8653642

You could call them victims of black magick insofar as everything they are trying to make themselves compatible with represents the will of a small number of moneyed and powerful individuals.

>>8653640
because two or three generations is not normal.

>>8653642

It all seems to beyond the point of diminishing returns though. Nothing wrong with good health but this borders obsessions that provides marginal improvements, and I guarantee there's a psychological or social explanation for this sudden health-conscious mentality.

>>8653629
>what do you think about improving yourself?
i think life is boring as shit otherwise

A third of Americans are fucking obese. Can you believe that a hundred million people have eaten and eaten until they can barely move, and are now trying to make it acceptable by claiming shit like 'healthy at every size'?

I can't believe no one has said utilitarianism yet. Don't we see time as something to spend and value?

>>8653633
This. It's simply businesses exploiting people by selling them products they don't need that don't really do anything despite marketers claiming otherwise and maybe nullifying it with small disclaimers no one reads.

>>8653629
is this Diogenes

The elites haven't been this different from the masses in centuries. They're trying to catch up

>>8653633
Yes. Is it not obvious?

>>8653629
Meditation is probably the only thing on that list that will actually help you.

>>8653802
This, everyone should meditate.

It's called keeping yourself healthy so you won't get ass cancer and die at 40

>>8653802
>>8654020
New age nu-males have arrived

>>8654020
fuck off. no i shouldnt

>>8653629
what's wrong with taking care of yourself? what else is there to do in life besides being productive

>>8653633
Bingo. It's just consumer society in the Internet age where you can draft a whole new lifestyle for tomorrow while still testing the utility of that which you decided on yesterday. The logical conclusion of existentialism and wireless internet.

You should watch the recently released documentary 'Supernormalisation'. The director addresses this philosophy head on - characterising it as a kind of superficial 'retreat' into oneself when faced with an unmanageable chaotic and essentially mendacious 'external reality'.

>>8654117
>essentially mendacious
what is wrong with you

>>8654120

What? That came to me easier than 'actually false' or 'fundamentally unreal'. You know what it means - if you don't, look it up.

>>8654126
i know what it means jackass

>>8654117
I hope you see the irony of getting your knowledge of superficiality from a documentary

>>8654131

Well then the phrase did just fine, didn't it? Quit your whining.

>>8654039
>New Age

Meditation has been a thing for thousands of years you zombie.

>>8654132

Have you seen the documentary? Can you offer up an alternative - in any medium - which more directly addresses the question which the OP phrased?

I tell you what, go watch it, then get back to me with a specific text, philosophy, or term, and then we'll see who's basing their ideas of superficial grounds.

>>8653629
>Exercise
>Good nutrition
>Meditation

it's called being a functional person you fat fuck

>>8654147
Sorry, but I don't watch movies

>>8654117
HyperNormalisation?

>>8654145
So has astrology, crystals, and magic

>>8654167
Meditation doesn't have to go with all that bullshit even though New Age types like to lump it in. It's just sitting around and clearing your mind for a bit, which is good for anyone.

>>8654156

Shame - I guarantee you would find it mesmerising. Adam Curtis doesn't just make pseudo-intellectual fodder for people too lazy to read. His work has real substance.

This 'trailer' doesn't do it justice. The full documentary is over three hours long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwUh-yVBV_Q

>>8653629
what sort of people do you know? I want to know them too. Everyone I know is killing themselves in all sorts of ways. count yourself lucky OP

>>8654173
you got btfo. enjoy your cold pressed juice

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>>8654160

Ah, yes, sorry! Non-native speaker, still prone to errors with superlatives.

>>8653629
>>Exercise, yoga, meditation
>>Reading self-help, productivity apps, "brain training" products
>>Good nutrition, supplements, vitamins
>>Optimizing sleep with gadgets such as the "FitBit"
How does all of that fall under "superficial?"

>>8654149
This.

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>>8654178
>What is False
>shot of Trump
WHOA

>>8654187
I was thinking the same.

OP how does one authentically improve themselves? Self mutilation?

>>8654173
>clearing your mind for a bit
This is what sleep for, retard

>>8654187
>>8654197

Read, lift weights and eat meat and vegetables. Nothing else required.

>>8653754
Yes

>>8654117
>taking that hack Curtis seriously.

Wew

there's nothing intrinsically wrong with most of those stuff
it's the way people use them as fashion objects/self advertising that annoys you

all is vanity though
kill me

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>>8653633

yes

>>8653629
If you think betterment is not intricately entangled with physical health, you are mistaken.

>>8654343
this mostly.

>>8654149
No it isn't you ideologue.

>>8653633
>>8654092
these

t. mindfulness practising zero waste vegan minimalist yogi beauty vlogger

>>8653629
"I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

It's just one way to cope with being a vulnerable little fleshbot in a malignantly indifferent universe.

A coping mechanism to replace religion. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wessel_Zapffe#Philosophy

>>8654247
>meat
enjoy your cancer

>>8654073
be unproductive

>>8654541
Stop reading the health section of Womens magazines. Being at a low bodyfat and muscular drastically lowers your chance of cancer. I do everything in the post you replied to. If I wasn't an alcoholic I would be healthy as fuck

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>>8654548
This.

>>8654553
>Womens magazines

http://www.health.harvard.edu/family-health-guide/red-meat-and-colon-cancer

Your vanity exercise of bodybuilding has nothing to do with health, anon. You're as superficial as the yoga sluts, but self-destructive while you're at it.

>>8653629
I don't think there's anything wrong with the lifestyle. There is certainly exploitation involved in it though. You don't need to spend money on physical activity, meditation, good food or getting a better night's sleep.

>>8653629
in itself, improvement is a natural tendency of the human being, and it is good.

The problem is that the loss of belief in God has made all of this futile. In the old times people perfected themselves because it made them closer to God. Today it is just a way of inflating the ego and alimentating a consumistic society.

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>Here is the crux of Han’s thesis. “Yes We Can” sounds like an empowering slogan, indicating our freedom and limitless potential. But according to Han, this is an illusory freedom because the message enclosed within “Yes We Can” is “Yes We Should”. Instead of living in a Disziplinargesellschaft(disciplinary society) of the past where our behavior was clearly regulated by societal prohibitions and commandments, we now live in a Leistungsgesellschaft (achievement society) in which we voluntarily succumb to the pressure of achieving. The Leistungsgesellschaft is no less restrictive than the Disziplinargesellschaft. We are no longer subject to exogenous prohibitions but we have internalized the mandates of achievement, always striving to do more. We have become slaves to the culture of positivity, subjugated by the imperative “Yes, We Should”. Instead of carefully contemplating whether or not to pursue a goal, the mere knowledge that we could achieve it forces us to strive towards that goal. Buying into the “Yes We Can” culture chains us to a life of self-exploitation and we are blinded by passion and determination until we collapse. Han uses the sad German alliteration “Erschöpfung, Ermüdung und Erstickung” (“exhaustion, fatigue and suffocation”) to describe the impact that an excess of positivity has once we forgo our ability to say “No!” to the demands of the achievement society. We keep on going until our minds and bodies shut down and this is why we live in a continuous state of exhaustion and fatigue. Han does not view multitasking as a sign of civilizational progress. Multitasking is an indicator of regression because it results in a broad but rather superficial state of attention and thus prevents true contemplation

>>8654627
ego is god
how it is now is how it always has been

Optimization of human capital
Society of the Spectacle
Territorialization
internalisation
and so on

>>8654627
God is a way of inflating the ego.

>>8653629
approach is everything.

is philosophy not the love of wisdom?

>>8654677
You are free to say no, just don't expect to be praised for doing so

>>8653629
>based_stand_out_of_my_sun_hobo.jpg
>that condescending, meritless critique

Grow up and you will find out.

>>8653629
I like how you conflate eating healthy and exercising with gadget obsession and new age horseshit all in the same breath, and then ask people to give the whole thing a label.

It's almost as if you want /lit/ to make a buzzword for you to justify sitting on your ass watching netflix all day.

>>8654511
wtf I love Nietsche now

>>8654343
this

the only reason you're so aware that people are participating in these kinds of activities is because they take every opportunity to remind you through social media for brownie points

It's not about improving as much as it is about people seeing you improve

>>8654957
>you are free to be a fag in the Islamic State, just don't expect not to be thrown of a building for doing so

Nice hypothetical freedom.

>>8653629
bluepill

>>8653633
yes it is!

>>8653802
i'm ashamed for having called this board /lit/

>>8654566

Red meat =/= all meat. You're retarded for telling the other anon to enjoy his cancer when he didn't specify which kinds of meat to eat. Really, great job.

>>8657231
Liftbros are retarded so I made a guess.

>>8653671
Obese is a broad classification. You may be obese.

>>8653802
Are you fucking serious?

what's wrong with excersise yoga and meditation

>>8657354
Takes up time that could be spent on hentai

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>>8653802
Nat an my wetch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGjkuFW0cY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCfz-VbM5eI

>>8653629
nothing wrong with any of those
I do/use all the things you just mentioned and I dont feel shallow or anything
People try to improve themselves

>>8654677

Never heard of him before, but I love him already.

>>8653629
>What philosophical way of life does this fall under?

None. Philosophy deals with the attempt to KNOW - reach and face fundamental facts about being. The consumerist "self-improvement" craze serves to avoid dealing with anything fundamental or even anything questioning the superfluous late-Capitalist ideology.

The comparison is like Seneca and the body-builders constantly disrupting his quest for actual understanding with the grunts of their "self-improvement".

I think it really is whatever you feel at the time and whatever you're doing at that time.

If you're spending all day looking at your phone because the phone was designed to get you to do that and you don't like it because you want to do other shit you're not happy.
You probably barely feel it though, because most people just know somethings wrong. They failed to figure out what they wanted out of life and instead are pushed around by external forces, just trying to 'live' when really they are just getting 'led'.

I felt that way for most of my life and it was shit, and even not I still feel that 'led' feeling quite a bit when I overpost on 4chan.
The brains a vast, complex machine and it does many many things, making you happy is only one of them. You don't really get ahead, you just slowly gain more and more control over the silent parts of yourself and reorient them into doing whatever you wanted to instead of what you think others want you to do.
Self-improvement alone is just another distraction, even accomplishments alone can be a distraction. The truth is you've got to dig deep and through trial and error figure out what you can and can't do, will and won't do, and eventually someday you might find yourself not being a piece of shit. That's real self-improvement.

A person's life always seems to improve unexpectedly and without effort.

You can whip yourself into a frenzy to better yourself, but do it so intensely that it borders on self-abuse.

I like the zen idea of naturalness. This notion that the genuine actualized self is a state of pure effortlessness, automatism, and direct spontenaity.

Analyzing and researching how this state is achieved defeats the purpose. Just go, don't let the bad things stick, and do what feels healthy.

>>8653802
L O L !!!
>dis cuck
L O L !!!
>dis cuck
L O L !!!
>dis cuck
L O L !!!
>dis cuck
L O L !!!
>dis cuck

>>8653802
We're all going to die someday.

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>>8653633
/thread
And this entire thing is pure ideology.

>>8653632
Isn't philosophy just a perpetual quest of knowledge, that you have no hope of completing in your mortal life? And if it is, it could be deduce that although you can not complete it, you can at-least derive pleasure from it by consolations and conclusions it gives you? And the longer you're of good mental health, the more experience and merit you can build up by your expertise; and to help aid your you live long, and stay mentally healthy, you do activities like exercise and having a good diet? (I can't speak for the others.)

There's also other benefits of being fit and having a good diet:
1. You're more discipline and less susceptible to being more of a slave of pleasure
2. Being physically fit means you can go through physical challenges, such as escaping disaster, being better able to fend yourself in an assault, and being physically ready to serve for your nation in war.
3. You live longer.
4. Your body will break down slower (assuming if you are moderate in your actions of both)
5. You will often more than not be happy and content with your life because you set yourself after a goal and completed it.

>>8653640
In the 50s people drank radon because pseudo-scientists said it was good for you in small doses.

Nothing has changed.

>>8653658
Most people don't want to die?

Perhaps being able to watch death on TV and a larger class with the means to buy health shit bump the numbers up, but superstitions about which medicines to take or which foods to eat and so on have always existed. Now we simply justify them with sometimes spurious science and statistics, leading to things like the "to the minute" sleep recommendations.

I don't think that's particularly specific for our day and age.
In the past, the same reasoning led to the cultivation of virtues and the like.
At the end of the day, all of the above and much more are excercises in preoccupation with own personality, ego-centered. Ergo likely to be there as long as there are people.

>>8654247

>lift weights

City dwellers and suburbanites should be massacred so us rural working folk can be at peace.

Only pathetic nerds masquerading as men need to lift weights. Do some actual work and you will get the workout you need without mindlessly lifting "heavy" plates.

I wish we could stop growing your food so you'd all starve.

>>8653629

>he thinks exercise is "superficial"

how's life in the ineffable realm of forms, fatty?

>>8659894
He may not be entirely wrong.
While being fit as such is certainly desirable and natural, the motives for bodybuilding which are so common today /are/ mainly superficial; it is not excercise for the sake of excercise, but for the sake of image.
Hence the monstrosities that often come of such ways.

>>8653629
How the fuck are exercise and good nutrition considered by you to be "superficial"? Get off the couch and go outside before you die of a heart attack at 35. There's nothing transcendent about being unhealthy you fat faggot.

>>8659958
In the case of physical fitness, one's image is a clear outward display of self control and dedication.

>>8654182
>>8654202
Please do not make conclusions on things you have never researched.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23251943
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20363650

That is not to say that these links are the absolute answer on the question of mediation - that requires more studies. But don't think it only some mystical mumbo jumbo

>>8653629
Exercise, meditation and eating properly are hardly superficial.

Selfhelp books and productivity apps are just jerkoffs tho

>>8657083
>>8657331
>>8658715

You people have been conditioned to think meditation is useless, because you link it with mysticism and religion. I would invite you to try the practice of mindful meditation. I assure you, you will feel the effects quite clearly. It has helped me immensely with my control over the fight/flight response.

If you have a lot of anxiety and general worry, I invite you to at least experiment

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23251943
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20363650

>>8659864
Why have spite for weightlifting? The system as it is now has so many jobs that are non-physical.

The gym is the only refuge for urban desk jockies, lest they be lardkings. Welcome to 2o16

>>8659864
Why have resentment for a healthy hobby?

Should people that study be contend with being physically weak, when they have the means not to be?
Then I suppose that manual labor people shouldn't try to study either.

I don't understand what you'd have against people that lift. Do you feel the same about people that do cardio? should they do some "actual work" too, instead of "masquerading" as men, even if they do it for the health benefits it brings, and perhaps the peace that the exercise delivers?

>>8653633
As capitalism first took root and then slowly dominated the collective Western perspective and ideology, communism was reduced to the level of the family, wherein community and mutual care without the motive of profit was cherished and nurtured between family members. The rise in divorce however was itself a consequence of capitalist ideology, which promoted novelty, individuality and the pursuit of pleasure above any other virtues which were less likely or unable to contribute to the profit motive. Finally a society was reduced to a score of individuals, each one in brutal and incessant competition with one another. The virtues it valued above all were youth, wealth, fame and erotic appeal. The anxieties such values created contributed in turn to the near-total atomization of society, each of its members locked away within their own narcissistic manufactured identities, demanding so much of a potential partner and feeling so afraid and anxious of exposing themselves to others in a sincere, flawed and unhygienic way that onanism provided a second-hand relief. The competition became so intense and so wide-reaching that each individual struggled against their neighbour for the attention they felt required to possess, sacrificing any genuine individuality and the time required to encourage it in the name of working longer hours at work, spending longer in the gym to retain their youthly erotic appeal, and doing anything at all to supplement their struggle to avoid the fatal and irredeemable fall into obscurity and old age.

>>8660398
I'm an "urban desk jockies" and I don't need to go the gym because I barely eat anything. lrn2 asceticism normie

>>8660465
What does going to the gym have to do with eating little? Why would barely eating change the gain of going to a gym?

>asceticism
Are you only ascetic in this single regard?

>>8660471
I'm ascetic in every regard, normie. Going to the gym requires energy, which requires food. The necessary amount of food needed for the requisite energy to visit a gym is beyond that one is able to consumer if one is to consider oneself ascetic. I only drink water. I only eat basic and small meals. I sleep eight hours a night. I barely speak. I haven't laughed aloud since 2006. I'm better than you.

>>8660545
What a boring post. I'll join you in this regard

>>8660553
The word "boring" is only used by those who are incapable of acknowledging the value in things which don't demand to have their alleged value acknowledged. I have written a 320,000 (thus far) auto-hagiography about my inner depths, with next to no plot or external actions. It's individuals like yourself who condemn me to only ever finding fame after I am dead.

>>8660558
Oh, yeah? well it takes two to tango, and I have all the moves memorized
Don't hack the tree before you find the forest, kid.
A stone is only heavy because of gravity, infant

>>8660240
I get what you mean and I agree with you.
But for the sake of fun ponderings; self control and dedication, yes, without a doubt. But what of the athlete's motives? Can those be harmful to his psyche, while the excercise itself does wonders for his body?

...
Suppose not. Suppose activity can never really do harm to one's head. But it would be /fun/ to go down that blind alley of thought!

>>8660545
>I barely speak. I haven't laughed aloud since 2006. I'm better than you.
i'd watch a comedy starring yourself if you are real

>>8660680
Thank you.

>>8660240
nah, anybody who micromanages their diet and workout for pure aesthetics is a literal homosexual.
working out for strength and the achievement one gets from getting stronger is a great thing but anybody who just does it for low bodyfat, six-pack and all the other gay shit should just bang/get banged by a dude already.

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>>8653633

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>>8660382
>empirical evidence of benefits of meditation posted
>suddenly /lit/ pseuds flee in fear

>>8660691
This is absolutely true. One thing I've realized after a great many years of studious observation regarding human dating habits and the romantic desires of the opposite sex (female) is that females on the whole don't pay a great deal of attention to physical attributes should such attributes be possessed without he who possesses them also possessing a degree of independence, intelligence, wit, charm and ambition. I myself am "severely obese" in medical terms yet time and time again I "catch the eye" of a girl on public transport who no-doubt has noticed that I am in possession of a great wealth of inner riches. I chuckle to myself every time I see some macho guy with a tight tshirt posing in his expensive clothing in front of some cute girl and she looks right by him at me instead. It's hilarious. I have never had a girlfriend but when I decide to expand my empire into the realm of the erotic I am fully prepared to find a beautiful, submissive, petite girl who will actually find my physical appearance subjectively appealing, even lustworthy, after a period spent in my company, during which my intense personality and mysterious demeanor will make her attached to me and will also encourage her to translate all my supposed "flaws" (acne, athsma, IBD) as virtues instead.

>>8653629
OP, don't forget. They also get their daily philosophy dose from some shitty facebook image macro of a famous quote by a famous guy.

>>8653633
yeah

>>8660710
Hahaa.

gottem

>>8654627
Why does it matter for what purpose we are improving ourselves? As long as people are improving themselves without inconveniencing others, then there is no harm done right?

>>8660696
firstly homer simpson would shit on meditation.
secondly, there's no doubt meditation can improve your mood. however it also comes with certain side effects such as not addressing the reasons you feel like fucking shit in the first place.
sure go and take drugs, listen to motivational speakers, meditate. all of these don't address the reality that some proper introspection and proceeding action that can make you feel more alive than any opiate-like activity ever can.

>>8653802
No, the only one of those that are actually essential are sleep and nutrition.

Nutrition in this instance precludes muh micros (though megadosing certain vitamins is fucking awesome) but simply to avoid the ingestion of poison prolefeed and to eat a proper diet appropriate to race and gender.

>>8653629
Those sound alright to me.

Are you bitter at normies or something?

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>>8660745
>comparing sitting quietly for a few minutes to let your stress and anxiety levels reduce to using fucking drugs
>implying that meditation somehow stops you from addressing your problems
I'm sure you will criticise me for formatting in greentext, but your argument is so retarded it doesn't really deserve any other type of response.

Why is it allowed to dismiss based on these labels, what's up with these fighting words? You like to pride yourselves in being above ideology?

This thread is nothing but ideology.

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This isn't philosophical inquiry.

The only common denominator is that stuff is popular.

You want to feel better than normies.

We call that being a failed normie.

I recommend suicide.

While I agree that substance of character and thought is in jeopardy due to the lifestyles that are sold to people via capitalism, I disagree with /litl/'s general disdain toward the whole thing.

Capitalism IS making the world go round these days. It has produced many great things we've all enjoyed (unless you are a completely miserable misanthrope that has enjoyed nothing in his life). Tons of people are following those commercialized lifestyle trends that are in the OP, but have you met the people who do? Most of them are generally good people. They have good intentions, and they work, and do what they can for the environment and for others. There's not much to hate there.

I think it is resentment that causes disdain for capitalism. These people are more successful at it than you, and the general morality of our time is synced with the capitalist machine, so you feel resentful over time.

But that is unbecoming of you. If you are really an advocate for a deeper substance in life, less focused on just appearance and more interested in genuine relationships and insight, you wouldn't let yourself be seized by such a petty thought.

>>8660717
>OP, don't forget. They also get their daily philosophy dose from some shitty facebook image macro of a famous quote by a famous guy.
Unlike you the big boy who read all the big boy philosophers am I right?

Shoot yourself.

>>8660813
>These people are more successful at it than you
Not to mention they are more attractive than OP as well.

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>>8660813
>Capitalism IS making the world go round these days. It has produced many great things we've all enjoyed (unless you are a completely miserable misanthrope that has enjoyed nothing in his life).

>>8660821
>Zizek
>not the perfect example of such a misanthrope

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>>8653629
They on left, you on right.

Hope I cleared things up opie-doke.

>>8653633
really makes the ol' neurons fire

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>>8660817
I'm just listing another example of the "fast food" way people improve themselves in this era. They no longer need to read entire books, they just need the most important lessons summarized to consume easily. Stop projecting, lad.

>>8660848
Left leads an unexamined life, right leads an examined one.

And we all know which one is really worth living.

>>8660880
The uggo life isn't worth living either buddy.

>>8660745
>as not addressing the reasons you feel like fucking shit in the first place
You miss the point of mindfulness - it allows you to look at your problems as if you were an another person looking into your own life. Mindfulness teaches you to let thoughts pass, to not let them affect you emotionally. It does not make you neglect your problems, it allows you "objectivity"

>>8660787
neither does taking certain kinds of drugs in moderation. my point is that the drugs and meditation will make you unable to see what your problems are in the first place. the information is in your anxiety, depression etc.

if you can't look at your life and understand what exactly are the mechanisms behind your emotional triggers AND face them then go ahead and detach yourself till the day you die. it won't be so bad, being be a relaxed half-person.

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It seems like everyone I know is on a constant quest for ingroup validation, in a somewhat superficial manner.

Guess OP got what he came here for.

>>8660913
Nah, mate. See my post
>>8660906

I understand your misconception, however. At a glance, mediation certainly seems like a tool to ignore your problems, but it is completely opposite

>Exercise, yoga, meditation
>superficial

Nigga wat? Those three improve not only your physical being but your mental.

>>8660943
It's hip to be condescending of what the normies are doing.

This is what this entire thread is about.

>>8660951
If normies started reading the Western canon or philosophy you'd see the same post.

>>8660906
but you're not another person. mindfulness is literally detachment and it's quite disgusting.
say if your parents died in a car crash, you could literally use mindfulness to let that thought pass and not let it affect you one bit.
extreme example perhaps, but this wilful disconnect from reality is quite disgusting.
i'm aware of the peace of mind it could bring you but it comes at the big cost of losing your ability to really inhabit yourself and be a human being. but as i said to the other guy, if being a relaxed half-person is cool with you then go ahead.

>>8653629
Better than yours, you sanctimonious prick who finds excuses to tries to feel superior to others.

>>8660951
Indeed. These anons are simply on the opposite side of the spectrum the "normies" they so despise are. They are ready to pummel anything they think puts them closer to being like "normal" people, regardless of the virtues of the concepts themselves.

Not to say all of /lit/ is like this. There are many quite reasonable people on this board

>>8660936
why'd you post twice?
i'm not talking about your problems like having anxiety and using meditation to help you not feel anxious and go out there and talk to people or be good in an interview etc.
why let the thought pass? why not understand why you have the thought in the first place? there's clearly a reason and if you just let thoughts pass continuously you're discarding pieces of yourself.
i'm not slamming it for people who's priority is calming down but it's just that pursuing the conventional route of solving your problems has greater benefits in the long run.

>>8660958
>say if your parents died in a car crash, you could literally use mindfulness to let that thought pass and not let it affect you one bit.
Yes, it would allow you to not run around 24/7, being enthralled by the constant, uncontrollable thoughts of your dead parents, flowing in the back of your mind, sitting in the pit of your stomach. This does not mean you ignore it, it means you control your grief, rather than it controls you. Mediation is not ignoring your problems, it is facing them and accepting them.

And mindfulness doesn't make you a psychopath, as you seem to think it does. If you would normally feel sad at your parents dying, you will so too with mindfulness - only you have a better handle and understanding of the pain you feel.

With your sentiments, I suppose you're not much of a fan of stoics either, then.

Do you, or have you ever, meditated before?

>>8661003
>why let the thought pass? why not understand why you have the thought in the first place
Mediation isn't just letting thoughts pass, it is giving you the capability of letting the thoughts go when they should not be present. If anything, meditation helps you better understand the thoughts you're having, and allows you to move on

>>8660745
>>8661003

mindfulness meditation is a type of therapy used and practiced by professional therapists you idiot. It's slowly phasing out cognitive behavioral therapy as the most effective form of therapy.

Your view may be that your thoughts are pieces of yourself and signify something deeper. That's called Freudian theory. The mental health community moved past that decades ago. The view most commonly held now is that your thoughts signify nothing deeper about you. CBT says these dark thoughts must be challenged and defeated, mindfulness therapy says these thoughts should be accepted, but held at arm's length, not engaged, and allowed to float on by without affecting you.

>>8661007
>This does not mean you ignore it, it means you control your grief, rather than it controls you.
do you really need mindfulness for that?
isn't self-control and being grounded something you can achieve without mindfulness/meditation?
peace of mind comes at the cost of having an active energetic mind. if you have negative thoughts the proper cure is to combat those negative thoughts and taking action accordingly to make you feel better about yourself. pretty much all depression/anxiety issues have to do with self-esteem/confidence problems. mindfulness doesn't solve the problem it merely treats the symptoms and it comes at the cost of having to constantly be on watch for your thoughts which is such a rubbish idea really.
i have meditated before, i was calmer sure but i stopped feeling like myself and it took me awhile to get back to normal.
>>8661010
see above.
>>8661086
oh professional therapists in psychology the most established mainstream pseudoscience.
i mean if you're that much of a retard to believe that 90% of the "mentally ill" excluding legit trauma issues aren't just whiny crybabies who don't understand what hard work and focus is then be my guest, keep feeding your delusion.
and your thoughts are pieces of yourself, not the content of the thoughts but the energy you put into those thoughts. you fix this by hard work and good relationships where people give a shit about you and make you feel better about yourself. not this bullshit detachment game.

>>8661236
I'm unfortunately not dedicated enough to continue discourse with you, anon. Let's me throw out a platitude - let's agree to disagree.

I wish you all the best, mate

>>8661334
sure dude you too

Does anyone find this perfectly ironic since the Materialist-Atheist ideology at the core of Capitalism (and Socialism) says that there's no ultimate thing to get or do?

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If you are interested in this I suggest you read 'The Happiness Industry' by William Davies

Pretty insightful imo

>>8653629

Zizek ironically calls it 'enlightened hedonism'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Y3WyN4yEc

>>8660678
>But it would be /fun/ to go down that blind alley of thought!

Your unrelenting enthusiasm is literally adorable.

Yoga instructor here. It's ironic how many on this board talk about existential ennui. Yoga/meditation contains the spiritual nourishment they seek, yet are too scared of being considered a "nu-male" to give it a chance.

>>8654147
I like Adam Curtis but his documentaries are really just accessible interpretations of some current philosophy and political thought. If you like them but want to go deeper I'd check out:

Undoing the Demos
Seeing like a State
24/7
The Great Transformation
Anything by Foucalt
Deleuze's essay on societies of control
Heidegger's writings on technology

>>8653629
>exercise
>reading
>good diet
>good sleep

well that's basic anon

>>8653629
Life is innately superficial.

The internal mystical element is an invention to guard the human mind from the emptiness of a world where must learn to tolerate pain every waking moment.

>>8653658

Everyone wants to be healthy. Those who don't are often looked upon as gross, unattractive and unsociable.

Thus you have a drive for people to be healthy. What is the path of least resistance? Having some sort of device, wonder diet, workout, or other vice that makes you feel like you're getting what you want instead of cold hard work. One thing leads to another and eventually you have people who are obsessive over every little detail instead of just focusing on what's important to be healthy (diet and exercise). When they don't see the results that they want and then start to compare themselves to others they feel inadequate and the obsession grows. Then they "research" what they want to hear and use the answer they want as an excuse and again the cycle repeats itself.

They are essentially chasing a pipe dream of perfection that they can never attain because it's what they think people expect.

Also capitalism drives a lot of this, they think it's what people want because it's what they see all day on TV/youtube/netflix etc etc.

>>8654497
Mindfulness meditation has proven benefits to self-control.

Check out Focus by Daniel Goleman.

>>8659864
unfortunately most of the population does not have access to jobs that involve rigorous physical labor. Over half of the human population live in urban environments and thus gyms are mandatory to keep healthy.

>>8656726
>the islamic state is an achievement society

>>8653629

Self improvement is such a broad term. I see what you are asking about falls more specifically under "well-being". The belief is that keeping your body well is extremely important for thinking clearly and being happy.

It's better to deal with these on an individual basis

>Exercise, Yoga, Meditation

Studies show that with improvement of your bodily functions and overall health, your ability in cognitive functions increases, a clarity of the mind can bring happiness to someone who perhaps was once clouded.

>Reading Selfhelp, brain training, etc

I rarely see an external source be the primary moving force in someone's well being, same goes for brain training and productivity apps. All transformation arises within, and the steps you take to get the ball rolling, but these are just my opinions and should not be taken seriously, I have never read a self-help book nor do have I researched it's benefits.

>Good Nutrition

This is absolutely essential for well-being

>Supplements
One of the great privileges in modern living, however I personally believe their benefits are overblown.

>Optimizing sleep

Sleep is a very complicated subject and more is being found out all the time, but sleep is based on cycles which is very hard to control. Attempt to force control of your cycles can be harmful to your well-being.


I don't much of this as "superficial", we live in a scientific era and embracing modernity and facts about our bodies as living beings is essential for cultural intellectual growth.

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>>8653629
Man's natural pursuit of The Good

We are in an economic crisis where hordes of shitskins can't wait to live like animals to undercut and do your job 5 times worse, plus soon machines will replace a lot of jobs.
Our arts are almost always depicting empty (but fit and beautiful) shells.

>>8653633
wtf i love capitalism now

>>8653633
2nd post best post

>>8660913
>and meditation will make you unable to see what your problems are in the first place. the information is in your anxiety, depression etc.

Sometimes anxiety and depression have no cause other than the fact that you are constantly emotionally identifying yourself with the negative and distorted thoughts in your head.

Mindfulness is a tool against neuroticism, it makes you realize that your thoughts are just as fleeting as an itch in your nose, and you don't have to listen or attach yourself to them.

If you constantly have thoughts in your head that you are worthless trash, and you actually believe them, meditation can help you, and empirical research shows that this is the case.

>tfw was depressed as fuck
>exercised reguarly and lost a good amount of weight
>still depressed
>start binging and stress eating
>lose motivation to continue working out
>gain all the weight back

Why didn't exercise cure me?

>>8665916
why should it have?

take some lexapro or something

>>8665921
Funny, my doctor prescribed that for me, but I'm afraid of being on anti-depressants. That and I don't like being on meds.

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>>8665938
>I don't like being on meds
Sorry to turn heads but is this a fucking meme?

Why do people dislike dosing something designed to help them function NORMALLY.
I can understand you may fear a dependency on said 'med' but what are you actually afraid of? You can't tackle issues on your own- mentally, hence the prescription.

And to chase, why do you care if it did lead to further substance abuse, if you are depressed like me then it's not something you care about, future isn't a priority.

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>>8653633
Sho yuo are schaying it's *sniff* a purely ideological *sniff* motivashun?

>>8666040
>but what are you actually afraid of

The meds making me sicker, as well as admitting to myself I actually have an illness and need help--a part of me is still in denial about my problems.

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>>8666062
As someone who is clawing from the bottom of the well I say you are not alone, when you are depressed you are alone. You feel moments from death at any time and you are totally disconnected.

Clearly you have some bridge as you have seeked medical advice, too, being in denial about your issue is you knowing it's not as bad as you believe.

Don't break like me, I don't know enough about you to say do X and Y and your life will improve because I wouldn't be in the position I am if life was that easy.

>>8666085
>being in denial about your issue is you knowing it's not as bad as you believe.

Then why should I be on meds?

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>>8661236
>oh professional therapists in psychology the most established mainstream pseudoscience.
> keep feeding your delusion
>Everyone is wrong except for me and the scientologists
Calling us delusional.

>>8653629
>reading a little T. S. Eliot and Allen Ginsberg to get cultured
>googling the coolest restaurants in their city
>keeping up with new music

>>8663332
is there any hope for this man?

>>8653629
So this is what kind of people /lit/ is composed of. Oh my god you're hopeless

>>8653629

Thank you for making this thread, I got a lot of insight into the kind of fucktards that are here and also into the kind of genius expressions of thought that exist here. Good thing I left Reddit, everyone mentally censors themselves for "le karma". 4chan is full of raw, unadulterated thoughts and I've learned so much from this thread alone.

Existentialism, utilitarianism, metaphysics, capitalism, so many themes explored with just the simple question of "Is the habit of obsessing over good health a form of modern hedonistic vanity?"

Thank you, 4chan

>>8661236
>tfw functional member of society with normal job and normal life
>had to start going to see a therapist due to mental health issues
No trauma there, actually just fucked brain chemistry for the most part.

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>>8654755
sounding pretty spooked anon

>>8667528
i love Rose Mcdowall <3 <3 <3

Anybody who thinks exercise is 'capitalism' or 'superficial' is actually just a fat retard.

Exercise is scientifically proven to improve not only your physical, but mental state of being as well. Exercising and being physically healthy helps brain functioning, sleep, and generally feeling well.

>>8667528
It is.

>>8668127
>wellbeing as a priority
>not horribly secular virtueless decadence

pls repent

>>8660446

Please, give me the book this is from. This mirrors thoughts that I've been having, describing some exactly, yet still giving me room for the theory I've been nurturing. I need to know this author.

>>8666796

What do you mean?

What's up with people bashing meditation? There are hundreds of research papers proving its benefits. It's as much of a fact as "exercising is good for your health".

I am new to /lit/; this is my first time and first post on this board.

Here are my thoughts about this:
I think it's okay to care about these things to an extent, but I personally believe that people take it too far.

I find it more important to care about things like educating yourself on different scientific topics, or on something that will benefit your specific career in the long term; rather than caring about trivial things like Yoga, meditation, eating healthy food and exercising.
Again, doing these trivial things is okay, especially if you enjoy it, but people take it too far, to the extent where they pay money for Yoga sessions or for expensive gyms, expensive "organic" food, etc.

Also, I think that people waste too much time on these things.

Another thing that I would like to point is that I feel like these things give false hope to people; when people do these things, they believe that they are improving themselves a lot.
It may be true that meditation and exercising can help, but not the extent that they are advertised, and as I mentioned, people spend too much time on these things to the extent where it is no longer just a hobby.

If someone wants to improve their brain, why not read a maths book? I felt like reading a Discrete Maths book and solving such problems really helped improve my ability to think, instead of using those awful "brain training" techniques that do little to no good.

>>8668196
>It may be true that meditation and exercising can help, but not the extent that they are advertised
And you base this on what?
To which "extent" are these things "advertised"?
Do you think exercise and meditation are "advertised" equally all places and by all people. That there is a universal idea of how much these things help, and that that idea is false?

Autism out

>>8668196
Where to begin.

>I find it more important to care about things like educating yourself on different scientific topics
>people spend too much time on these things to the extent where it is no longer just a hobby.
Unless your employment evolves needing to know scientific things it is a hobby. I find the idea that just because you are learning something scientific it's automatically good while learning history, or chess tactics, or art theory are just fluff.

>or on something that will benefit your specific career in the long term
Sure this is good, but to say that having a good job is more important than having being physically healthy and in a good mental place is absurd. If you are mentally unwell (not necessarily in any clinical sense) having a good job means nothing.

>rather than caring about trivial things like Yoga, meditation, eating healthy food and exercising. Again, doing these trivial things is okay
> but people take it too far, to the extent where they pay money for Yoga sessions or for expensive gyms, expensive "organic" food, etc
You just said they are trivial without any justification. Do you know how good yoga is for you? Do you know how awful it is to have weak joints and arthritis when you get older? Doing yoga regularly would make your standard of living amazingly higher as you got older. I don't see how you say that not having a shit back or knees is trivial but thinking about how to further your career isn't.

>If someone wants to improve their brain, why not read a maths book?
Mediation isn't about being smarter nor is it as narrow as you think it is. Mediation isn't just sitting down thinking of nothing.

>they believe that they are improving themselves a lot.
That is a personal problem. It has nothing to do with the things in question.

>instead of using those awful "brain training" techniques that do little to no good
You mean those "brain training" techniques which have been shown to be effective in dozens of clinical trials? For someone who is obsessed with science you don't seem to understand it very well.

>>8668196
This entire post can be summarized as: stop liking things I don't like as much.

>>8668778
>On Why You Should Also Hate the Things I Hate
>an Essay

>>8668674
>Unless your employment evolves needing to know scientific things it is a hobby. I find the idea that just because you are learning something scientific it's automatically good while learning history, or chess tactics, or art theory are just fluff.
I never said that; I find those interesting, as well.

As for your other points; you are correct. I stand corrected.
Thank you very much.

Although there is one thing that I would to say:
I never said that Yoga, exercising and meditation are bad.
I do exercises daily, and I meditate sometimes, but I do not allow these things to take too much of time to the extent where it hinders my progress.

>>8668674
Yoga's actually pretty shit on the joints according to Dr. Bookspan a diver sports medicine doctor who I've been reading. You won't hear about it anywhere else, but there's a lot of biomechanics that is flat out ignored by yoga because it was hoodoo made up by monks to stay fit for battle.

If you want to get really good, eat a pound of varied veggies a day and do some measure of healthy exercise. Saunas and similar things like cold baths in measured amounts have huge benefits according to studies. Something about how your body respond to stressors. Too much, and you just hurt yourself. Too little, not much benefit. Just the right amount and a huge benefit for little time cost because you're recovering the rest of the time.

>>8653629
I get everything except
>exercise
>good nutrition

Exercise and eating well are superficial?

Or are you talking about paying out the ass to do CrossFit and ""eat natural""

>>8669041
OP is most likely damning a lot of things he doesn't want to do. That's my genius theory, anyway

>>8654538
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wessel_Zapffe#Philosophy
this "philosophy" is literally a compilation of platitudes regarding human condition

>>8660745
So your advice is to focus on your future death until a solution presents itself. You are a hero and I hope you find the cure for death but I'm going to take the cowards way out and address each moment as it comes.

>>8668912
>If you want to get really good, eat a pound of varied veggies a day and do some measure of healthy exercise.
Yes, I completely agree.

>cold baths
I take cold baths often; I read that they can help prevent hair loss and that they are good for burning bad fat.

>Saunas
Unfortunately, I can't bring myself to enjoy saunas. :(

>there are people in this thread who don't do yoga in between studying
It feels good senpai

>>8653629
I guess I'm a cuck but there's nothing wrong with sleeping regularly, exercising, eating right and meditating. Meditations has been shown to basically cure depression and anxiety.

>>8653629
>excersice, good nutrition and reading are superficial ways to improve oneself

>>8660880
That's something an ugly person who doesn't think very deeply would say.

>>8661236
>Can't you do that without mindfulness

Sort of. You certainly can't do it without practice of some sort. And although there are many traditions that encourage training self control they all share key elements with mindfulness. Also thinking about your anxiety is the opposite of a treatment for anxiety. Learning to acknowledge your anxiety and then think about what you need to work and working on it is the cure.

>>8654167
>>8660382
Modern neuroscience supports, with brainwave evidence, the fact that trained meditation is a very specific state and not "just sleep"

>>8660446

also requesting source

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>>8654511
>tfw this is what the world is like rn