Nick Land wrote the best explanation of fascism and the Trum

>The flamboyant fascist features of the Trump campaign – and still more of his excited Alt-Right supporters – are deniable only by fools.

heh
good job, way to get your point across by using ad hominem
What's the point of an opinion piece if you just want to convince those that already agree with you?

>>8629404
>missing the point of the article so hard
This has to be bait. A good one though.

>>8629404
When Nick Land calls something fascist it's different than the Huffington Post doing so.

>>8629404
The next sentence makes a roughly identical claim about the Obama campaign, if you were thinking Land read 'fascism' as in any way a reason not to back Trump.

>>8629404
are you denying that there's anything superficially fascistic about this stuff?

>>8629374
Nail on the head.

I want to read more by this cunt desu

>>8629486
t. Nick

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>you will never live in Nick Land

>>8629435
>>8629436
>>8629473
Never heard of the guy, took the article out of context, my bad. Rereading it I just got the sense he was saying 'no guys america should be america again because the real america was cool'. Either way, flew straight above my head.
>>8629480
He used the term 'mind-control class', I figure he's referring to the left and marketing culture. He did say at one part that a guy who said everyone is fascist now and implied he was right, I disagree. They are openly pursuing global interests, not national ones, so I'm clearly missing something or too dumb.

>>8629527
American globalism is globalism under American hegemony.

It's kind of like Islam being a peaceful religion implies the conversion of everyone to Islam first.

>>8629527
>the left
>marketing culture

>>8629546
can you not understand figurative language?

decent article but I wouldn't agree with all of it and I think Land is intentionally misrepresenting himself in some parts

>>8629374
I thoroughly enjoyed it. Nothing says fun like calling everyone a fascist.

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>>8629527
>>8629527
If you still fall for the left-right dichotomy then you have already lost. Power has no ideology. These people are in power and power is all they want. They are playing the old shows but behind the curtain we have a very new deal. And not in a good way.

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The general sentiment is very worthwhile. No-one bats an eye at the many overreaches of the government and the perpetual pretext that is the war on terror. At the same time, society has demonized fascism while perfectly comfortable in something very fascist-like - - and increasing at the common citizen's expense, he is become an advocate for his own undoing.

>>8629582
increasingly*

>>8629565
how is he "misrepresenting himself"?

>>8629546
You don't think shit like social justice is being marketed at people?

>>8629589
the part about radical Islam
he doesn't really believe in radical Islam and he certainly doesn't believe it challenges the Cathedral
he's obviously censored himself for the more conservative reader

>>8629598
>he doesn't really believe in radical Islam
yes he does, how the fuck can you not believe in in it?

He specifically called in, in the article, a temper tantrum. That implies that it isn't actually a threat to power and is instead the impotent rage of a powerless child

how the hell did Bloom persuade Nick to write for DC? that makes like, what, at least 4 NRx people who wrote there now

>>8629609
he doesn't really think there's a distinction between 'radical' Islam and normal Islam
at absolute best it's different means to the same end

>>8629614
there's a new opinion editor there

>>8629614
probably paid him

>>8629616

who is it now?

>>8629632

I doubt that

>>8629653
Robert Mariani
https://twitter.com/robert_mariani/

What do you like about Harry Potter /lit/?

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Listen, all I want is to live in my own homeland without any foreigners here.

>>8629666

lol him and Bloom are practically joined at the hip

only met him once I think

this is hilarious for reasons I can't say, but I'll point out that the Daily Caller was an entry-point for a lot of DE/NRx ideas to flow into conservative and libertarian think tanks in Washington DC even potentially precipitating the Trump

I feel like Land is over-reaching here.

Rather than give a more concrete definition of the hazy concept of fascism he uses that obscurity to call everything fascist. The idea that the modern feminized, cosmopolitan, deconstructed, globalist trend is fascistic because we have a mixed economy, social safety nets, and an interventionist foreign policy (not that I'm a fan of any of those) makes me think Nick needs to get his eyes checked. Pure John Birch horseshit.

>>8629674
I know them too. Who are you?

>>8629675
Read "As We Go Marching" by John T. Flynn. It's good and I think Nick Land borrowed some ideas from it

>>8629681

lol I'm not going to reveal my power level here

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>Nick Land
>A philosopher

>>8629694
make a tweet right now so I can determine if you are who I think you are

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>>8629696
what makes someone a philosopher? using obscurantist bullshit language?

I bet that's /lit/'s actual criteria

>>8629702

you're thinking of the wrong person

have a throwaway email?

>>8629719
[email protected]

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>>8629714
But that would mean Land is a philosopher

>>8629685

I'll put it on my list, but I don't know how seriously I can take it.Flynn's Wikipedia page is covered in red flags.

>Conspiracy theorist
>Classical Liberal in the modern era
>McCarthy supporter
>Bircher

>>8629540
>American globalism is globalism under American hegemony.
wow, you're right. I never thought of it that way.
>>8629572
Yeah I agree with you, I just tend to associate the marketing side with the left because they are the one with the most ridiculous commercials. Like that obamacare one with the pets.
>>8629582
Definitely. I missed where he said that though, I think a lot of people think this but in the media it's played as red vs. blue so people just repeat 'well your policies don't help people' and 'your policies don't help the country'
>>8629714
These days if you call yourself a philosopher and can state an opinion isn't that good enough?
I don't think we will have those titans of philosophy like we did in the past anymore, simply because there's so much stuff out there now it's just everyone's opinion but well written.

>>8629738
Just from reading he wrote it in 1944 I can tell that his opinion is going to be vastly different than ours, but I think given the events since then he at least has a good case for being proven right by history.
The main debate I think is whether you call the current government 'facist' or not, either way I think it's difficult to argue that the presidency itself has way too much sway over the country as a political, philosophical, and pragmatic figure.
What king in history can rival our presidency in America?

>>8629754
He was already arguing that the US under the New Deal/war centralization was adopting some of the essential under-the-hood components of fascism, but with a completely Americanized surface

>>8629572
Nick Land falls for the left-right dichotomy

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>>8629769
>>8629572
>I don't subscribe to your foolish 'left-right' dichotomy. When will the sheeple wake up?

>>8629714
Yes, using obscurantist bullshit language is much akin to /lit/'s say of pussyfooting around the real, much solvable, first-world issues of their lives. Nick Land also lives in Southeast Asia and occasionally goes around China. He also completely killed his academic career by sperging (physically), little wonder he resonates so much with this board

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>>8629777
>He also completely killed his academic career by sperging (physically)
what happened?

>>8629769
If you want a career writing about politics in this world it kinda comes with the territory.

>>8629754
>What king in history can rival our presidency in America?

In terms of absolute power within their own country?
Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot just to name some of the big ones in the 20th century. North Korea. The Saudi's are pretty absolutist too. Putin comes to mind. The president can't even muster a 50% approval rating where Stalin could erase high ranking members of the Communist Party from history. There's really no comparison.

>>8629769
>>8629774
>>8629777
r vs. K-selected I think is more applicable these days.

The big problem with his shitty article is that true fascism works hand in hand with industry (in the subordinate role).

The current American system is literally dragged along by a combination of private entities including the financial sector, industry, and the "democratic" mob which includes both the right and left. Trump if anything is a Peronist: a social conservative espousing nationalization of an industrial sector (outsourcing, globalized industry) and a shoring up of the domestic industrial sector. \

>>8629774
>le ebin discredint fedora image jpag xDDDDDDD

Damn you're originalles. There is no intellectual groundwork for the left-right dichotomy other than obsolete ideologies - to address actual issues nowadays, you have to define mechanisms more specifically than 'left' or 'right', for instance in economics you would address rapid inflation with 'reduced government expenditure and strengthened fiscal policy' rather than 'MUH LIBERTARD RIGHT' (because elements of both what are connotatively considered 'left' and 'right' are present) and you'd address immigration with legislation to increase vetting with so many caveats that you couldn't designate it either 'left' or 'right'

However it's important to understand 'left' and 'right' in the social context because there are groups of disgruntled young adults and middle aged white collar workers trying to find meaning in their lives when their wives are fucking their bosses who identify as 'leftists' and 'rightists' and have more or less a homogenous set of ideals and a tribal approach to domestic politics

>>8629794
that's fucking retarded

Wait, wait, wait...

Is Trump a fascist?

>>8629777
I thought the same thing at first but he did get me thinking about it.
If he wanted clarity, I'm sure he could have explained his opinion in a simple way. He chose to say it like that I think because that's what he thinks people who are well-read will appreciate.
Or he's a sperg.
Either way, I like simple stuff.
>>8629785
Nah, at the very least I know a late night trucking show that gets by on a very practical viewpoint, taking everyone to task.
>>8629788
Yeah I was thinking of outside his country and inside his country. Just having the best military at your beck and call alone because congress decided to forget they have checks and balances helps too.
>>8629794
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory
I didn't know that was a thing, I agree.

>>8629785
There's still a pretty substantial academic industry in International Relations where the various branches of realism are used as frameworks which is bretty gud

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>>8629800
Care to explain why?

>>8629769

>falling for the idea that left-right doesn't describe real sociopolitical phenomena

leftist drift is nothing more than entropy at work desu

you could no more dispense with it than you could dispense with the idea of gravity to explain the trajectory of stones

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>>8629798
this is literally the definition of fascism I had when I was in middle school

>>8629783
Although it's not confirmed on wikipedia (Nick's page is as cursory as can be), this isn't a rumour because basically everyone with any remote connection to Nick Land talk about this and he was at one point a lecturer and isn't anymore

http://divus.cc/london/en/article/nick-land-ein-experiment-im-inhumanismus

>Land lay behind the stage, flat on the floor (a ‘snake-becoming’ forming the first stage of bodily destratification), croaking enigmatic invocations intercut with sections from Artaud’s asylum poems. In this delirious vocal telegraphy, meaning seemed to disintegrate into sheer phonetic matter, melting into the cut-up beats and acting directly on the subconscious. As Land began to speak in his strange, choked-off voice (perhaps that ‘absurdly high pitched ... tone ... ancient demonists described as ‘silvery,’ which he later reports being taunted by) the disconcerted audience begin to giggle; the demon voice wavered slightly until Land’s sense of mission overcame his momentary self-consciousness; and as the ‘performance’ continued the audience fell silent, eyeing each other uncertainly as if they had walked into a funeral by mistake. Embarrassment was regarded by Land as just one of the rudimentary inhibitions that had to be broken down in order to explore the unknown – in contrast to the forces of academic domestication, which normalised by fostering a sense of inadequacy and shame before the Masters, before the edifice of what is yet to be learnt.

>>8629820
Good thing you have the Internet to show you everything you learned in school was a lie.

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>>8629821
THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN

>>8629820
Except Peronists took over the industry, Hitler made them co-rulers.

Krupp never became an aspect of the German state.

>>8629821
how do we know that this is why he's no longer a lecturer?

>>8629675
>Rather than give a more concrete definition of the hazy concept of fascism
You should read articles before commenting on them

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Does /lit/ like Moldbug as much as they like Land?

>>8629881

probably

they just choose Nick Land on here because he's more obviously /lit/ but Moldbug seems even more /lit/ desu

met the guy, he fucking gave me a book

>>8629894
what book?

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Holy fuck, all that nominalization. Is this how most academics write? Physically hurts to read. Also he's confusing corporatocracy and corporatism. The latter is fascism, the former is not.

>>8629905

a book about communists

>>8629906
no... you have it backwards. Fascism is not "corporatocracy," it's corporatism. Most industries in fascist countries were nationalized. Think New Deal cranked up to 11

>>8629906

this is actually Land at his most lucid and accessible

you probably don't want to read anything else by him, it might make you feel insecure

>>8629914
Reread my sentence. That's literally what I said. The former in that sentence is corporatocracy, the latter is corporatism.

>>8629925
then you're in agreement with Land

>>8629946

No, he seems to make no distinction on the matter. What has occurred, irrespective of past nationalization in certain industries, is the government has become subordinate to the corporation, and it is not the case that industry is subordinate to and organized by the government, except when the industry itself wishes it to be so. Although both can be seen as an amalgam, or bundling as he puts it, they are not of the same kind.

Oh man, the daily caller audience is just going to _love_ Nick Land.

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>>8629983
>those comments

>>8629906
No, this isn't how most academics write. Find any postgraduate paper online or watch online courses from a good university for graduates with a huge amount of assumed knowledge; academics, when not confiding only in those who specialise in their very specific discipline within a discipline, should be accessible enough to anyone who has an Americna college level vocabulary. It's how NRx pseuds write. Land himself described in a post that his movement is characterised by 'abstruse verbage'

>>8629946

Actually on the note of agreement. It's not that I really am in opposition to the spirit of what he has said, but that I disagree with his definition of fascism which is used to say it.

>>8629798
>a social conservative

He's a twice-divorced adulterer atheist who was pro-abortion his whole life until he decided to run with the Republican party.

>>8629615
>>8629615
Sure, but he's said before that ISIL ~is~ the protestant reformation called for in Islam; that one need only glance over the history of the Christian protestant reformation to discover the parallel. So he definitely sees a difference between the rebellious, 'radical' members of the Ummah and the rest.

>>8629966
>What has occurred, irrespective of past nationalization in certain industries, is the government has become subordinate to the corporation, and it is not the case that industry is subordinate to and organized by the government, except when the industry itself wishes it to be so.

But what if neither is subordinate to the other, but instead they are one in the same? This is what I read Land as arguing. Then the distinction between corporatocracy and corporatism (and I mean corporatism under fascism, not ancient Christian traditions of corporatism) is purely theoretical. Incidentally, this is Noam Chomsky's view of the American government and it's businesses post-New Deal.

>>8629675
You've to divest some of your categories from their moral implications if you want to read Land properly. He's not complaining about fascism; it's not necessarily a dirty word in his textbook (or, at least, it's no dirtier a word than freedom).

>>8630019
this tbqh. Land has basically no "shoulds" or "oughts" in his philosophy. Just "is"

>>8630007
If neither is subordinate I would have to look at the motivations of the bundle then. And when I do I see it values acquisitiveness, so I think the spirit of government has at least been subordinated by the bylaws of business, and so would not consider it fascism. This is, if you grant me that the spirit of government is to protect it's people or something similar, and goes behind mere economic concerns.

>>8629989
Yeah, man - any high school kid could pick up Judith Butler and run with it.

>>8630057
judith butler isn't complicated, she is just mentally ill and suffers from delusions that inform her worldview

>>8630063
She's those things, and she's complicated. Have you read her, ever? Have a shot at the book she wrote with Athena Athanasiou - Disposession - and tell me who's the harder read, the far academic left, or NRx?

>>8630078
People on the postmodern/poststructuralist left are intentionally incomprehensible. NRx generally tries to be clear but often deals with very unorthodox ideas so appears to be hard to read

>>8630090
This is kind of the crux: NRx is tasked to wrangling with postructuralism, so it's ever striving to retrieve vocabulary from the nebula. To the effect: what looks like nebulous language is really language in the process of being de-nebulised.

>>8630107
*poststructuralism, pardon me

>>8629582
there's literally nothing wrong with that

>>8630107
holy... I want more

but no seriously, I'd like to read more about this line of thought

Decent place to start, or from which at least to discern some context:
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com.au/2009/01/gentle-introduction-to-unqualified.html

And here's Nick Land's blog:
http://www.xenosystems.net/

Plus a compilation of his writings (incl. those from what you could call his sort of proto-xenofeminist days):
https://www.urbanomic.com/book/fanged-noumena/

If you find the time, and want to know where the left fits (squeezes, very awkwardly) into all this, as well, you might also find some merit in these books; both feature Land's writing fairly prominently:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23452048-malign-velocities, &:
https://www.urbanomic.com/book/accelerate/

Really, though, if you just read through all of Moldbug's 'gentle introduction', by then you'll have picked up the trail just fine - and can be trusted to assign your own reading.

>>8630200
>>8630127

>>8629745
>Marketing side
>left

I love it when americans try to talk about politics

>>8629821
>>8629821
>>8629847
This is no reason to be expelled, he would at worst be accepted at edgy northern european art schools

>>8630231
I know. They do it with such un-institutionalised clarity and free-expression; they don't even realise how unwelcome-in-your-universities they sound.

>>8630256
He was expelled for being rightwing; the mid-lecture snake-dance was just a catalyst.

>>8630267
Suuuure

>>8629821
Seems like a great lad.

>>8630231
>I not only am too dumb too understand the difference between social liberalism and economic liberalism, but I'm also smug about it

>>8629989
So poorly? Because using big words doesn't mark one as a smart person, a smart person knows how to make complex ideas easy to understand

>>8630399
A smart person knows how to persuade idiots of ideas, without the trouble of having to illustrate the mechanics of those ideas. The world, by vast majority, is idiots; try describing ~how~ Gödel discovered closed timelike curves, for example, to any member of this world-majority. You couldn't do it? Well, NRx is antidemocratic, so they don't bother with the persuasive, peripheral route either. If you can't understand it, they hold - leave it to others [them; us] to understand.

But I get why you have to believe this: when you can't understand something, you're able to put it aside and applaud yourself for your good instincts; after all, if you can't understand the author, that's proof of the author's (rather than your own) unintelligence.

>>8630267
was he even right-wing at that point? i was under the impression that he was (peripherally) affiliated with the left until fairly recently.

Does anyone have more info this snake dance? Is there a video?

>>8630267
He's a bit extreme, not just right wing. It's not like his affiliation ends with natural hierarchy and egoism.

Where does Land get his money from?

>>8630798
his waifu

>>8630798
Chinese welfarebucks

accelerate my niggas

>>8630832
Does nick land actually prescribe anything? Or does he just make his commentaries?

>>8630846
What he wants is what will inevitably come to be anyway.

Pure amor fati.

why do these losers still think they're relevant

nobody cares, nobody reads nrx blogs anymore other than lifeless nerds who like to roleplay as natural aristocrats because they have high iqs, despite being lacking in everything else of importance

i can see why /lit/ likes him, though, this description fits most of this board perfectly

>>8629374
Didn't really say anything new desu.

the only thing that separates Fascism from Social Democracy is aesthetics

>>8630929
Fascism is an entirely aesthetic system. Aesthetics differentiates it from everything

>>8630905
>being this much of a butthurt meatsack

Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the AI--a rope over an abyss.

A dangerous crossing, a dangerous wayfaring, a dangerous looking-back, a dangerous trembling and halting.

What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not a goal: what is lovable in man is that he is an OVER-GOING and a DOWN-GOING.

I love those that know not how to live except as down-goers, for they are the over-goers.

>>8630019

this

morality is a luxury nature is ready to dispense with

>>8630127

do you have a throwaway email

I might have materials to share

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Even if today's governance incorporates fascist elements, is it really right to compare it to the demonized fascist regimes of the past?

Take America for example, there's no political or ethnic purges taking place. There's no fear of violence preventing the average citizen from exercising their freedom. What's the point of pointing out society has obscured the definition of fascism to make it a stereotype of evil but internalized aspects of it, when those aspects are not evil themselves?

>>8629807
>Just having the best military
lmao you really believe that?

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>>8629788
>The president can't even muster a 50% approval rating where Stalin could erase high ranking members of the Communist Party from history. There's really no comparison.
>he fell for the congressional process meme
lmao

protip, the things that 'fail' to get congressional approval were never the interest of the ruling party to begin with, of which there is only such party

it is a spectacle, you don't see congress or the senate weighing in on much bigger decisions than the shit they shut down and make a huff about, it is all to give the illusion that your representative government represents you, that there is a choice of left or right in itself is but a spectacle

>>8631300
Precisely this, there is no need for eliminating political opponents or purging the citizenry when they are entirely powerless to begin with, occupied and constrained by the useless machinery of political agency that has been instilled as not only legitimate but a god given gift of democracy in the general populace.

>>8629821
We've all been there.

>>8629374
If everything is fascist, is anything really fascist?

>>8631300
this picture is so comfy

>>8631260
>Take America for example, there's no political or ethnic purges taking place. There's no fear of violence preventing the average citizen from exercising their freedom.
The white middle class is being BTFO by economic and demographic shifts and with a two party system backed by the same people your vote is pretty much worthless.

The only thing not fascist about it is the window dressing.

>>8632071
Is this thinking much different than "everyone right of Barack Obama is a fascist"?

>>8632071
Yes. In hunter-gatherer times everyone was tribal, doesn't mean there are no other ways to live than in tribes.

Fascism is just the current system of humanity.

>>8630832
Post of the year.

>>8632749

I don't get it