Be honest /lit/, would you really have preferred it if some literally

>>8614393
Hell no. I love Bob. I feel like he is the older brother I never had. All my life, he has been trying to tell me what's up.

>>8614393
It would've been equally bad.

>in b4 Murakami becomes the new Borges

yes
this is even worse than any other scenario which i thought was likely to happen

>>8614393
No. The prize shouldn't go to anyone from a third-world shithole.

Yeah because I'm not racist and I'd get to read new books given masterful translations.

Instead I'll probably have to sit through some of my normie friends blasting Highway 61 for the first time in their lives when I go over to smoke.

Still glad it wasn't Murakami.

Totally deserve it. Better poet than most poets.

>>8614414
This.

Will we remember this as the day literature finally died?

>>8614425

drama queen

>>8614425
No but the Nobel prize is dead, it has been dying for a few years and now it's finished.

>>8614418
wtf is up with /lit/'s hatred of murakami?

>>8614393
What is the point of giving it to Dylan? His influence isn't really doubted, and he's definitely not under appreciated as a song writer. Most people consider him one of the greats and it's senseless to disagree with that.

Wasn't their thing all about making non-famous authors worthy of merit famous? Like they did with Faulkner? like they did with Modiano?

I feel like the committee became collectively caught up in nostalgia and started jerking each other off about the sixties and Boots of Spanish Leather and then they come out and do this.

Either way, this will probably be one of the most famous nobel prizes ever to have been awarded.

>>8614432
Gook John Green imho

>>8614432
>wtf

You and the other underage fans who think his retarded "obscure" pop references and muh slightly implied supernatural elements are cool. His prose is mediocre, he uses the same tropes in every book, just another YA author.

>>8614446
He's a YA author for people who are coming out of the YA phase. His audience is college age girls through to early 30s.

>>8614432
He writes the same book over and over. The novelty of Murakami wears off really fucking quick.

Dylan has deserved this prize for years, probably decades.

I haven't been on /lit/ in years, but I thought I'd check in to see what people were saying about Dylan. I quickly remembered why I left.

>>8614432
Literal meme author. Murakami fans in lit classes mix numale pretension with total incompetence. It's a whole breed of people who can develop ear fetishes just to get through his badly translated lolsorandom tripe, but who can't navigate JSTOR to save their lives.

>>8614438
even if you hate murakami he is nowhere near as bad as john green


>>8614446
i'm 22 but okay.

>retarded "obscure" pop references
He named a book norwegian wood... I don't think many people believe he was trying to be

>implied supernatural elements are cool
they are

>His prose is mediocre, he uses the same tropes in every book, just another YA author.
these all seem like criticisms that are personal to you

>>8614438
kek

>>8614393
yes. this is a win for people not interested in reading.

>>8614470
Why would those people care about the Nobel amyway? This is a win for bany boomer acid casualties who steal the music of poor black people.

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>>8614393
>IMPLYING Pinecone shouldn't have won

Fuck off OP.

>people itt calling murakami's prose bad based on translation

I'm not suggesting Murakami is some sort of Nabokov-tier prose expert, but one has to realise that the differences between (indo) European languages and Japanese are so fundamentally different that a translation is hardly an indicator.

>>8614467
Im not that guy but 22 is still considered young adult.

>>8614480
everyone "cares" about the nobel. same thing goes for people who complain if the author is a white male. they aren't interested in reading anything, they just want to see something that pleases them.

>>8614495
Murakami's prose isn't bad. He's a decent writer.

The problem is, being "decent" isn't enough to win the Nobel Prize, so I don't get why he was even mentioned.

>>8614509
no me neither, it just bothers me when people say such ungrounded things.

>>8614509
He became a meme and people started to take him seriously everywhere for some reason.

I really love bob dylan. The Times they Are a Changing and The Freewheelin Bob Dylan are some of my favorite albums.

He is not lit and does not deserve the prize.

>caring what a group of swedes think about the world

Why were the Nobels ever a thing anyway.

He should have won last year.

>>8614775
I would never have read Mo Yan or Alexeivich without them. If there is one good one its worth 5 bad ones.

The committee is basically just trolling the US. It's been 23 years since last time an american was awarded the prize, and by giving it to Bob Dylan they're still pretty much saying 'fuck you' to all contemporary american writers. However, now no one can complain about the US not having a recent prize winner, since officially, they do.

Remember what Horace Engdahl said.

Yes, and I say this as someone who's obsessed with Dylan. Dylan's place in the history books is pretty much cemented these days, he has all the recognition he needs and that $900,000 could have gone to someone in need of it.

The Nobel prize has been a PC meme competition for a long time now.

>>8614436
Is Modiano good?

>>8614873
Have you ever read anything by Mo Yan or Modiano or Alexievich?

PC is not exactly something that figures in their choices, especially with Mo Yan

>>8614393
I would have preferred something interesting.
Dylan doesn't write literature, people don't read him, they listen to his music. It makes no sense to give a literature award to a musician.

>>8614436
>Either way, this will probably be one of the most famous nobel prizes ever to have been awarded.
There, that's exactly the reason they gave it to Dylan. They wanted attention.

>>8614889
Modiano is okay. I'm French and he's considered a decent/good writer who wrote a gorillion books, but he's far from the great masters of the past, obviously.

>>8614889
Good, but not great. I hate to repeat everybody's take here, but he really did wrote the same book 20 times. After 4 or 5 I had enough.

>>8614898
It's just as absurd as giving the prize to Churchill (who got it in 1953).

>>8614393
I wish someone who actually does prose would have won. Don't musicians have their own awards?

Also, America almost never wins one anymore and there are so many great writers to choose from there... feels weird Bob Dylan won this...

>>8614965
and bob dylan already won swedens biggest music award.

>>8614499
He said he was not underaged

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Why the fuck is everyone freaking out over this? It's not like they gave it to some gay rapper or something

>>8614973
The Nobel prize has such authority that it almost decides the literary canon, having someone win it who's not a literary implies that content has completely won out over form.

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>>8614961
>The Story of the Malakand Field Force
>Marlborough
>History of the English Speaking People
>The Second World War (Especially "Their Finest Hour"
>The World Crisis

One of the most prolific non-fiction authors of our time that just happened to make half of that history himself. Just because you havent read him...

>>8614965
>I wish someone who actually does prose would have won.
So would you have been annoyed if another person considered a poet won the award?

>>8614410
>>in b4 Murakami becomes the new Borges
IMPLYING

>>8614990
A poet who's poems werent set to music and put on albums.

>>8614446
>His prose is mediocre
Read him in japanese have you?

>>8614973
I honestly rather have seen it given to Gucci Mane than this tired old cunt of a Boomer nostalgia symbol.

>>8614996
I figured, the way you worded the post prompted the question.

Though it should be said that Dylan's published at least non-lyrics books, and he's planning on releasing at least another one before he dies.

>>8614775
Guy invents dynamite. Many people are blown up. Tries to pay for his entry to heaven.

>>8615001
Yeah the angry mob would then actually be fun

>>8614973
Awarding the prize to Kanye West would actually have been a bold choice: idiotic, but audacious.

But Dylan is a naff choice made by (and for) edgy baby boomers who have it all.

>wow he's such a poet XDDD reminds me of my stoner experiences in 1972 hahaha so cultural XDDDD

Yes, it bothers me. Musicians don't deserve the award. Plus, his lyrics are overrated fluff for burned out, pseudo-intellectual hippies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5x9pdInTU&app=desktop

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>>8614403

>>8614989
I don't mean that Churchill wasn't a writer, nor that he was bad.

But it's obvious he got the prize because of who he was, and not because of the divine quality of his writings. I can give you 200 names who deserved the Nobel more than him.

>>8614988
Bob Dylan has been canonized for decades, much like most of the other people who were nominated. Not winning an. obselete award doesn't detract from the legacies of figures like Roth or Oates, and can't add much to someone like Dylan, now 75, who has been an icon before he was 30.

People who need use awards to confirm their beliefs are fucking stupid. Literally just as bad as normies who tweet shit like "Wow, just saw X movie, actor Y definitely needs an Oscar!"

>>8614509
Still awarding a decent writer is a better scenario than awarding a pop musician that could write rhymes.

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>>8614988

>Bob Dylan
>not literary

>>8614410

Expecting Murakami to get it is a dumb as thinking JK Rowling will get it

... then again, Bob Dylan and all

>>8614988
Bob Dylan was canonized before your parents were born, faggot

It's no more of a travesty than Toni Morrison being awarded the Nobel or Junot Diaz being awarded the Pulitzer. The Swedish people are inveterate cuckolds and arts prizes are awarded solely for conformity to contemporary leftist dogma and/or belonging to a perceived persecuted group.

>>8615065
These two wrote books.

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>>8615019
>Giving the award to a pretentious nigger rapper who married into a reality tv family would be a good idea
>b-but giving it to one of the most important American figures of the last century is dumb

Okay faggot

>>8615070
>These two wrote books.
Only in the technical sense. Dylan's selection does reek of Baby Boomer pomposity, though. Can anyone give me the mean age of the selection committee?

>>8615051
Songs are not literature. A terrible poem is literature, an excellent song with good lyrics isn't.

Next step, giving out the prize to a millionaire rapper? to a popular blogger? to a 4chan tripfag?

>>8615076
>A terrible poem is literature, an excellent song with good lyrics isn't.
>Because I said so

>>8615074
>Kanye West
>a good idea
I said it would be idiotic. Read my post.

>Bob Dylan
>dumb
I said it was naff. Read my post.

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>>8615076
>equating the legacy of Bob fucking Dylan to tripfags

Fucking kill yourself boyo

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>Dylan has never written a book

>>8615080
>Literature, in its broadest sense, is any single body of written works.

Songs are not "written works". Or else any guy shouting random stuff in a bar is also producing literature (and why not? if what he shouts is poetic?). Any 4chan shitpost is literature. Me telling your mom to show her pussy is literature.

>>8615080
literature is only about written text, it can relate to oral transmission and so forth, but song is not a part of literature, this is basically the first class about literature.

>>8615090
Why not? If the tripfag is actually excellent?

>>8615090
I think it's clear no one is comparing BD to anyone, except someone who shouldn't have won the lit nobel. This is a swede-hate thread, not a dylan-hate thread. Check urself Kk

>>8615102
>Songs are not "written works".
Yes they are. They are performed, but they are written first. And Bob Dylan's lyrics still to this day cast a shadow onto any living poet alive right now.

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>>8615103
>>8615102
Dylan's works have been collected as written text since The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan was released.

>>8615110
Yes he is. Read his post.
>Next step, giving out the prize to a millionaire rapper? to a popular blogger? to a 4chan tripfag?
How can any of these supposed people have even a fraction of a legacy that Bob Dylan has? How many lifetimes would it take them to accomplish what Dylan has done in just one?

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>>8615102

The bulk of Shakespeare's works were intended to be consumed as plays, that doesn't lessen their literary value.

>>8615090
>Friends winning an oscar.
>Pulitzer awarded to tweets.
>Videogame soundtracks winning Grammys.
>Dylan winning a nobel prize in literature.
This is only the beginning.

>>8615124
Next year Roger Waters is totally winning a nobel, he's more influential on a generation that isn't going to die in the next few months.

>>8615112
>They are performed, but they are written first

I wrote the scenario of a porn movie featuring your mom, is that literature?

Actually, speaking of movies, I'm now waiting for Clint Eastwood winning the Nobel. Or George Lucas. Why not? They wrote films. And then Eddie Murphy. He wrote good jokes. Popular. Huge legacy. Why not?

>Bob Dylan's lyrics still to this day cast a shadow onto any living poet alive right now

Lol

>>8614495
THIS MAN
IN MY COUNTRY
HE IS NOTHING

>>8615123
I collected my shitposts in a pdf. Where is my Nobel? I need one million dollars.

>>8615146
So then, if Shakespeare were alive today and wrote another play equal of his works hundreds of years ago you wouldn't consider it literature?

I hope we don't progress in aging reversal technology until the boomers are dead.

>>8615146
Name a working writer known primarily for their poetry who was born after 1960.

>all those false equivalincies
Fuck off with your retarded shitposting

>>8615124
>legacy

Doesn't magically turn what you did into literature.

Adolf Hilter had a big legacy with Mein Kampf, did he deserve the Nobel? Okay, and what about the TV series "Game Of Thrones"? What about Kim Kardashian's tweets? It's got a big impact on today's culture. Such important, so legacy. Wow.

>>8615168
>False equivalences
Like music awarded for its value in literacy?

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>>8615076
>Songs are not literature

>>8615172
>Adolf Hilter had a big legacy with Mein Kampf, did he deserve the Nobel?
Well, he was nominated for one for a short period of time.

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>>8615146
>/lit/ before Dylan won the Nobel
>stephen king ray bradbury isaac asimov raymond chandler all genreshit not literature reeeeeee

>/lit/ after Dylan won the Nobel
>b-but everything is technicqlly literature

>>8615134
Tragedies and comedies are literature that's meant to be performed. Not the other way round.

>>8615174
His lyrics have been collected in written texts for decades now. He's written several books.

Is Shakespeare not literary because he wrote plays for theatre?

>>8615038
Start by giving 20

>>8615190
No and anon and the exact reason why is I'm right and you're wrong.

>>8615182
And Dylan's songs are literature that's meant to be performed, in this case as a song.

>>8615190
read >>8615182

Every published record has lyrics collected in the booklet included in every CD, so basically every musician out there can be eligible for literature prizes from now on.

>>8615168
>any living poet alive
...now becomes...
>a working writer known primarily for their poetry who was born after 1960

Moving goalposts, I see? And what tells you Bob Dylan is the best songwriter on earth, anyway? Did you listen to Italian or French songs?

I'm just glad its making everyone here miserable, as usual.

I'm expecting a literature Nobel for Gira, Swans are much better than Dylan and obviously deserve a Nobel for literature.

>>8615177
Nope. In the 19th century, the French songwriter Beranger was considered among the greatest poets of his time (even Goethe rated him very highly).

This opinion all makes us laugh today. Because we don't care about the music anymore (it's outdated), and we can see the remaining text is not proper literature.

>>8614393

>>8614393

Not like the Nobel prize matter too much this days anyway, but I'm okay with Dylan being the winner. It is true that he doesn't need the prize, but maybe the prize needed him since, as I said, not much people care about it nowadays. And he fuggin makes poetry, that's for sure, not all his albums are good but the ones that are good are master pieces, it doesn't matter they're not printed, an important part of poetry's history is lyricism and minstrelsy.

So yeah, I'm glad he got it, but now I'm afraid that Murakami could get it, something I was sure could never happen.

I think I only have felt happy with two Nobel winners: Alice Munro, and now Dylan.

The times they are a-changin', people.

Depends on the minority, but I don't hate this choice.

Never liked this kike or his kike music tbqh

>>8615251
The kike has been a Christian since the l8 70s.

>>8615256
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto-Judaism

Dylan is still a better choice than some left wing jiggaboo journalist or tranny novelist. I'm actually amazed they gave it to an American with white skin

>>8614912
name me one author who has impacted world art like bob dylan has born in the last 100 years.

Dylan's response to this thread: https://media.giphy.com/media/tABxqc4oXrjsk/giphy.gif

(He's probably going to reject the prize desu.)

six hours later and they still haven't been able to wake this old cocksleeve from his cryosleep

>>8615251

>kike

He literally recorded three christian albums.

And he's not some nigger woman. I'm glad he got it.

here's what peeves me a little

People are chiming in to say "look, he does make poetry! His lyrics can be read as literature!"

But no one is actually defending him as the greatest writer in the world. No one thinks that, even on the Nobel committee. It's just a statement meant to be quirky and please the contrarians who have been nominating him for decades.

But even if they gave it to Kenny Chesney, it still doesn't affect anyone in any way.

he deserved it just for making the comfiest song of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s10ldVRHRSw

>>8615279
all of that was just taqqiya dude

>>8615265
No one, that´s the problem. They need a obscure winner.

Adam Zagajewski should have won. Yes, I'm angry.

>>8615239
>but maybe the prize needed him since, as I said, not much people care about it nowadays

I disagree about the fact that the prize needs Dylan (or popularity). The committee being populistic and looking for attention will devalue the Nobel prize and eventually it will become a pointless thing, catering to mainstream, easily-accesible works.

Say hi to Mira Gonzales winning a future nobel prize for her revolutionary tweets...

>>8615309
>Bob Dylan wins
>woooooow

>some obscure literary who wins
>woooooow

You cant win with awards. Everyone is looking to have their opinions validated.

We all should be reading instead of caring about this desu.

What are you reading now?

>>8615325
>some obscure literary who wins
>their work gets translated and published for easy access and they keep writing

>Bob Dylan wins
>people clap and he gets a huge sum of money to add to his pile

i saw an interview with kenzaburo oe the other day. he said that when he turned 60 he would stop writing and move to america to live his last years. instead he got the prize when he was 59 and kept writing. i think that is what the prize should accomplish. dylan is one of the most famous musicians ever, he doesn't need this honor.

>>8615322

Well, yeah, that's true, but I think that's what is going to happen anyway, and we shouldn't care much about prizes because they're all going to disappoint us anyway, somehow (unless we are the ones giving it to the people we think they deserve it).

Who remembers Mo Yan? Who is still reading Tranströmer's poetry these days? I think with or without a Nobel prize writers who deserve recognition get it. The important thing is people reading their books, not some old committee giving them money.

Also, I had to google Mira Gonzalez. Please take me back in time, I wish I hadn't see that.

>>8615193
Okay, here are 20 major writers who deserved the 1953 Nobel more than Churchill (and never got the Nobel, if I'm not wrong):

>Brecht
>Cocteau
>Jünger
>Breton
>Céline
>Gombrowicz
>Nabokov
>Gracq
>Tanizaki
>Calvino
>Malraux
>Borges
>Waugh
>Bataille
>Montherlant
>Heidegger (if Bergson had it, why not Heidegger?)
>Jung (same remark)
>Claudel
>Dos Passos
>Ungaretti

All more important than Churchill, from the point of view of literature.

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At least an American won it.
The last time was 1993.

U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U! S! A!
U S A !
S
A
!

>>8615365

This is true.

And who we read more nowadays? Cocteau, Céline, Gombrowicz (I got a book by him yesterday), Tanizaki, Calvino, Borges., etc...

This prize is not important at all. Sometimes we get to know some new writer, usually meh one, and this year a good musician got it. Is it fair? I don't know. Who cares? People will keep on reading Philip Roth or Amos Oz even if they never win this prize.

>>8614457

LOL GET THE FUCK OUT

BOB DYLAN WON THE FUCKING NOBEL PRIZE FOR LITERATURE

YOU FUCKING LOSER

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>>8614416

>>8615344
This.

For example, I'm glad that the 2003 Nobel made me discover Coetzee, and pushed his works DURABLY on all the shelves. He's not a giant; but I find that books like Disgrace are valuable, as a testimony and as a work of art.

>>8615239
Prizes are (normally) not made to make you feel good.

>but times are changin'
No. As said above, the songwriter Béranger was considered a major poet in the 19th century (literally the Bob Dylan of his era). Nowadays we see how ridiculous was this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Jean_de_B%C3%A9ranger

>>8615344
You're acting like the Nobel is the only award that comes with money, and that people would be okay with giving a Nobel to some obscure schlub.

>John Doe has won the Nobel prize for literature
>Woooooooow who the fuck is that?! What about _____, where's his/her Nobel prize?!

Theres plenty of awards for nobodies: Hugos, Book Critics, NYT Honors, Oprah's book club, etc.

>>8615408
It's been over half a century since the works Dylan's primarily known for were released. Contemporaries, like Dave Van Ronk, Phil Ochs and Barry McGuire who wrote/performed music to his have fallen into their place in the history books, no one who's not already interested in music cares about them. Dylan's closest "real" literary cousins, The Beats have fallen out of literary and public favor, yet Dylan's works are still held in high regard. If Dylan was as mediocre as you say he is his pedestal would've already fallen.

>>8614453
Certainly he is a "transition" author. But beyond that, leaving /lit/'s hate aside, I think we should ask. Is there any merit in his work as to be considered of great importance?

Awards are stupid. If you need a reward to keep going you are a piece of shit.

>>8615365
Jünger and Heidegger were "fascists" so don't expect them to win anything

>>8615153
Where is your popular influence in the collective imaginary of a generation?

>they always give it to foreigners out of pity

stop this meme. 9 out of the past 10 winners have been from European descent

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>>8615466
> collective imaginary of a generation?
not everyone was a good-for-nothing hippie piece of shit

>>8614393
if they were good, yes
i already know bob dylan, i'd like to discover someone else

>>8614438
and John Green writes some heartfelt novels

>>8615464
Junger was anti nazi, as openly as it was possible.

>>8615445
Béranger was not mediocre either. The greatest literary critics and authors held him in high esteem for decades.

But now that the music is outdated, the text falls with it.

Do you routinely read Bob Dylan lyrics while disregarding the music? Do you really read him like a true poet, whose text is self-sufficient?

>>8615102
Anon songs are written before they're sung

>>8615476
fascist =/= Nazi

>>8614393
I would have preferred it. Ideally it would be someone that didn't have their works translated into English yet, but deserves it.

>>8615482
But he wasn't a fascist.

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>All this argumentum ad populum

I think a porn star like Ron Jeremy deserves the Nobel Prize in Literature more than Bob Dylan, since a lot more people have watched 1 of Ron's 2,000+ pornography films than have listened to Bob Dylan.

The pornography industry is much more of a "popular influence in the collective imaginary of a generation" than any musician could ever dream.

Next Nobel winner works in the pornography industry. Cap this.

>>8614393
I only came on /lit/ to write this one post and I won't be here for the next few days, maybe weeks

nobel confirmed dead

>>8615470
That does not mean he has no merit concerning certain groups. Can you truly believe that the works of a writer have to necesarily be absolutely universal to have merit? I genuinely want to know your opinion, in this case I would think that both Roth and Adunis would have been a better choice for the prize, that I agree, but compare to Dylan's music and his influence Murakami's work wanes.

>>8615493
Murakami has been the favourite for years now. It won't be too much of a suprise

>>8615153
Write something good and maybe you'll get one.

>>8615466
But I created (or co-created) good memes. These memes are the voice of the 4chan generation, the honour of NEETs worldwide, our new collective imaginary. We 4chan users are more important than Dylan for the youth of today.

>>8615476
>Jünger
>anti-nazi

Don't push it.

>>8615496
/lit/'s known that since the 70s

>>8615506
Then maybe in a few years you'll have the nobel my friend, there's no obstacles now, it seems.

>>8615489
he was a right-wing piece of shit who was admired by Evola

that alone disqualifies him from any awards

>>8615506
Your memes are poorly written shit. I've seen 'em

>>8615481
Movies too. Nobel prize for Jackie Chan when?

>>8614973
There's better lyricism in Liquid Swords than in any Dylan album

>>8615516
Jackie Chan movies are not very well written. Give and example of a script that's deserving of the nobel prize and your argument might make a tiny bit of sense.

>>8615511
He was a man of honest principles who stood for Germany and against the Nazi regime.
And considering Sartre got it while glorifying the slaughter in the Soviet union, it's obvious that even if he was a right wing piece of shit, it wouldn't have disqualified him.

>>8615506
Considering they would have shot him if he wasn't who he was, yes, anti Nazi isn't pushing it.

>>8615520
thats not true

>>8615510
Awarding the Nobel collectively to 4chan would make a lot of sense.

All the pasta, all the memes we wrote have been read millions of times, after all.

"Ayy lmao", or the Navy Seals pasta, are more viral and more copied than any Bob Dylan song.

>>8615531
>And considering Sartre got it while glorifying the slaughter in the Soviet union
Stalinism was quite fashionable among the intellectual class of Europe at the time. Right-wing ideologies will never be fashionable among groups of people with an average IQ greater than 85.

>>8615501
Is the joke that Murakami's books are pornographic?

>>8615544
>>8615531
If I'm not mistaken most otorture practices and the existence of Gulags wasnt known yet when Sartre and most french intellectuals were zealous of the soviet union.

>>8614453
They're calling it New Adult, and I'm not entirely sure they didn't mean "newly"

>>8615489
>>8615476
He was basically an anarcho-fascist.

>>8615524
Okay. TV series like Scrubs, House of Cards, and Rome deserve a Nobel. They're masterfully written and had more influence than anything by Modiano.

>>8615537
We'll become an Aeschylian chorus, a unity singing to the horrors and the contemplative pleasures of dank memes.

>>8615562
So maybe they'll win one at some point. Who knows. Scrubs is shit btw

>>8615562
I haven't watched those shows but if they're of high quality, why not?

OK, I'M GOING TO READ HIS BOOKS . . . SO, WHAT BOOKS DID BOB DYLAN WRITE? I'M HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING THEM IN THE LIBRARY CATALOG.

>Bob Dylan is not a poet

If you're traveling in the north country fair
Where the winds hit heavy on the borderline
Remember me to one who lives there
For she was once a true love of mine.
Well, if you go when the snowflakes storm
When the rivers freeze and summer ends
Please see for me if she's wearing a coat so warm
To keep her from the howlin' winds.

>>8615546
yes

THE SUN IS NOT YELLOW IT'S CHICKEN

>>8615537
someone should tip them off about Totalitarianism in a Tundra

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>>8615544
>Right-wing ideologies will never be fashionable among groups of people with an average IQ greater than 85.

perhaps this was given in anticipation of the Great American Novel Dylan is about to write

I actually feel that rather than being a "victory" for American literature, giving the prize to Bob Dylan was actually intended as a snub to the American literary scene. The Swedish Academy just took a massive dump on Roth, McCarthy, Ashbery, Pynchon, etc.

>>8615556
It was well known at the moment. They were ignoring it for decades. Solzhenitsyn writes at length about the hypocrisy of Sartre and Russel. >>8615558
He was basically a German patriot and military mystic.

>>8615588
american literature is pretty bad. its mostly cowboys and dude-weed-lmao

>>8615571
Because... they're not literature? Excellent shows by the way.

>>8615574
I don't know the music, so here's my opinion on this text:

It would elicit 0 answer if it were posted in a /lit/ poetry thread.

blowing in the wind
dont think twice
mr tambourine man
girl from the north country
subterranean homesick blues
like a rolling stone
it's alright ma
visions of johnana
sad eyed lady of the lowlands
knocking on heavens door

in no particular order

anyone read his books?

Ironically I was listening to Dylan when I heard.
Pretty unexpected desu. But good for him.

>>8615604
The scripts are literature though and have been written down somewhere. Again, Shakespeare.

Look, I actually agree for the most part that Dylan (and other songwriters) shouldn't get the Nobel Prize. If anything Dylan should get it for music (you could argue his actual music isn't that good, but that's another discussion), but this pedantic argument about what is and isn't literature seems like a childish way of deriding Dylan's works.

>>8615581
These lyrics changed my life

>>8614509
But how do you know? Do you speak and read japanese?

>>8615544
>Right-wing ideologies will never be fashionable among groups of people with an average IQ greater than 85.

wew lad

>>8615613
Pretty accurate, but I would take blowing in the wind out
That song's awful.
Replace it with something cryptic from JWH

>>8615613
>>8615641
I Shall Be Released is better than Knockin' on Heaven's Door

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>>8614393
I'm waiting for /mu/ flocking in, taking over this shitty place. We are literally done now.

So are they going to give Kanye West a Nobel now or what?

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>>8615565
>mfw

>>8614393
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

""""""""""""""""""literature"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

RIP Nobel

>>8615544
>>8615634
Ayn Rand is pretty popular among the elites of the US, isn´t she?

He deserved it more than anybody.

All the people currently on /lit/ are just pretentious faggots.

/mu/ wins again

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>post yfw some japanese comic with cute girls will win a nobel prize

>>8615668
Bob Dylan is pretentious lmao. Give it to DMX

At least DMX doesn't pretend to be a poet

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>>8614416

>>8615613
>forgetting about Desolation Row
Literally his best.

>>8614393
Alan Moore had more right to win this than this nostalgic pile of rancid of boomer trash. Also since everyone's making concessions to music being literary, does that mean comics are literature now as well. God knows they're much closer to literature than music.

>>8615574
see>>8615283

>>8615365
at least Brecht, Calvino, Heidegger, Borges, and Celine have all been translated reasonably. Still hilariously nearsighted to award Churchill

>>8615593
I see if it is not too much trouble. In what book does Solzhenitsyn wrote about this? I'm genuinely interested.

sorry anons i'm late, so, what is the /lit/ consensus on this? he deserve it or not?

>>8615735
The Gulag Archipelago. Mostly mentioned it in the second and third volumes.

>>8615506
>>8615464
Every time the Nazis came to ask him to be a rep for them in the Reichstag he told them to fuck off. He openly hated the Nazis and their Blood and Soil political theory.

>>8615651
maybe it's formally better but the impact isn't as strong desu

>>8615708
have to disagree there

>>8615641
i dont like the song either but if you're gonna have a comprehensive list you need to include it im afraid

>>8614393
>minority from whoistan

You say this as if the Nobel for lit hasn't been entirely eurcentric until very recently and even then their choices are safe as fuck like Mo Yan who everyone reads knows.

>>8615626
Shakespeare was writing literature. We're talking about tragedies and comedies, which are considered a noble literary form since the Ancient times (given that plays were much more often read than performed, even back then).

We're not talking about pop theater with base farces, or semi-improvised commedia dell'arte plays. This would not be literature indeed. But Shakespeare consciously placed himself within a literary tradition, a thing Dylan doesn't do--regardless of the real qualities of his texts.

"Literary efforts" (trying to be eloquent, poetic, etc.) does not automatically mean you're producing literature.

For example, the amazing stuff an author says in private (his locker room talk) isn't literature like his books are. Because it's not meant to be literature (written work) in the first place.

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>>8615672
>mfw Akira Toriyama wins the Nobel prize

shoutout to all the wannabe patricians in here who claim that oral works are not literature, you've just made the same statement about the iliad and the odyssey... great work

>>8615769
Dylan's works were meant to be literature (written works) at least as much as they were meant to be songs. One of his most famous quotes is "I consider myself a poet more than a musician".

>>8615795
an oral work and a pop song are not the same
honestly you've disqualified yourself from literature forever, insulting the ancients by comparing homer to a pop singer is actually unforgivable

>>8615769
he does place himself within a literary tradition tho, he's made explicit references to rimbaud a thousand times for god's sake! christ even his stagename was nicked from a poet

>>8615795
Please think before you post.

>>8615803
seems apparent that you don't have any actual real-life experiences with oral works tho senpai

It should be said that more anything though, Dylan probably wants to be considered a folk artist of some sort,regardless of whether or not it's a folksinger or folk writer. He's returned to folk and blues more than anything else, he even recently put his archives in the same place Woody Guthrie's archives are being kept (which is also a sign that he's probably going to die soon).

>>8615803
what exactly is the difference between an oral work and a pop song, in your own words?

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>>8615803
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/13/bob-dylan-wins-2016-nobel-prize-in-literature

>Danius said the choice of Dylan may appear surprising, “but if you look far back, ... you discover Homer and Sappho. They wrote poetic texts that were meant to be listened to, performed, often together with instruments, and it’s the same way for Bob Dylan. We still read Homer and Sappho, and we enjoy it. Same thing with Bob Dylan – he can be read and should be read. And he is a great poet in the grand English tradition.”

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Even considering the nobel already dead, It nevertheless sends a message to people outside lit-circles, or the ones that doesn't know nobel irrelevancy, that their "plebean" nature can be considered fully literature, with the big L, as if this field was needing more wretched marketing.

Some anons saying that It is to gain "traction" to the prize, Its effect is exactly the opposite, the already messy boderline of literature got even messier. Sounds as if even Nobel is helping foster the worst externalities of the culture industry, instead of serving as a "lifeline" to keep it alive.

It all mixes now, a slowly corruption takes place, shitty critics that already bad have gotten a little bit tilted to more fuckery, a like this, it goes.

>>8614393
Here's a better lyricist than Zimmerman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5mue4uDHNQ

>Transcript from a speech Dylan gave a year ago
I'm glad for my songs to be honored like this. But you know, they didn't get here by themselves. It's been a long road and it's taken a lot of doing. These songs of mine, they're like mystery stories, the kind that Shakespeare saw when he was growing up. I think you could trace what I do back that far. They were on the fringes then, and I think they're on the fringes now. And they sound like they've been on the hard ground.

I should mention a few people along the way who brought this about. I know I should mention John Hammond, great talent scout for Columbia Records. He signed me to that label when I was nobody. It took a lot of faith to do that, and he took a lot of ridicule, but he was his own man and he was courageous. And for that, I'm eternally grateful. The last person he discovered before me was Aretha Franklin, and before that Count Basie, Billie Holiday and a whole lot of other artists. All noncommercial artists.

Trends did not interest John, and I was very noncommercial but he stayed with me. He believed in my talent and that's all that mattered. I can't thank him enough for that.

Lou Levy runs Leeds Music, and they published my earliest songs, but I didn't stay there too long. Levy himself, he went back a long ways. He signed me to that company and recorded my songs and I sang them into a tape recorder. He told me outright, there was no precedent for what I was doing, that I was either before my time or behind it. And if I brought him a song like "Stardust," he'd turn it down because it would be too late.

He told me that if I was before my time -- and he didn't really know that for sure -- but if it was happening and if it was true, the public would usually take three to five years to catch up -- so be prepared. And that did happen. The trouble was, when the public did catch up I was already three to five years beyond that, so it kind of complicated it. But he was encouraging, and he didn't judge me, and I'll always remember him for that.

Artie Mogull at Witmark Music signed me next to his company, and he told me to just keep writing songs no matter what, that I might be on to something. Well, he too stood behind me, and he could never wait to see what I'd give him next. I didn't even think of myself as a songwriter before then. I'll always be grateful for him also for that attitude.

I also have to mention some of the early artists who recorded my songs very, very early, without having to be asked. Just something they felt about them that was right for them. I've got to say thank you to Peter, Paul and Mary, who I knew all separately before they ever became a group. I didn't even think of myself as writing songs for others to sing but it was starting to happen and it couldn't have happened to, or with, a better group.

They took a song of mine that had been recorded before that was buried on one of my records and turned it into a hit song. Not the way I would have done it -- they straightened it out. But since then hundreds of people have recorded it and I don't think that would have happened if it wasn't for them. They definitely started something for me.

The Byrds, the Turtles, Sonny & Cher -- they made some of my songs Top 10 hits but I wasn't a pop songwriter and I really didn't want to be that, but it was good that it happened. Their versions of songs were like commercials, but I didn't really mind that because 50 years later my songs were being used in the commercials. So that was good too. I was glad it happened, and I was glad they'd done it.

Pervis Staples and the Staple Singers -- long before they were on Stax they were on Epic and they were one of my favorite groups of all time. I met them all in '62 or '63. They heard my songs live and Pervis wanted to record three or four of them and he did with the Staples Singers. They were the type of artists that I wanted recording my songs.

Nina Simone. I used to cross paths with her in New York City in the Village Gate nightclub. These were the artists I looked up to. She recorded some of my songs that she [inaudible] to me. She was an overwhelming artist, piano player and singer. Very strong woman, very outspoken. That she was recording my songs validated everything that I was about.

Oh, and can't forget Jimi Hendrix. I actually saw Jimi Hendrix perform when he was in a band called Jimmy James and the Blue Flames -- something like that. And Jimi didn't even sing. He was just the guitar player. He took some small songs of mine that nobody paid any attention to and pumped them up into the outer limits of the stratosphere and turned them all into classics. I have to thank Jimi, too. I wish he was here.

Johnny Cash recorded some of my songs early on, too, up in about '63, when he was all skin and bones. He traveled long, he traveled hard, but he was a hero of mine. I heard many of his songs growing up. I knew them better than I knew my own. "Big River," "I Walk the Line."

"How high's the water, Mama?" I wrote "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" with that song reverberating inside my head. I still ask, "How high is the water, mama?" Johnny was an intense character. And he saw that people were putting me down playing electric music, and he posted letters to magazines scolding people, telling them to shut up and let him sing.

These songs didn't come out of thin air. I didn't just make them up out of whole cloth. Contrary to what Lou Levy said, there was a precedent. It all came out of traditional music: traditional folk music, traditional rock 'n' roll and traditional big-band swing orchestra music.

>>8615795
It wasn't literature when it was entirely oral. But that's because the concept of literature didn't even exist.

The works of Homer became literature when they were carefully edited to be set on paper, like most oral works. Does it mean you have to write anything on paper to create literature? No. Because Homer's poems were thought-out, lengthy works of fiction in the first place; not just a collection of hippie songs.

Anyway, you know what? We do have the music and lyrics of a few Ancient songs. It's very interesting. But it's not really literature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RjBePQV4xE

>As long as you live, shine,
>Let nothing grieve you beyond measure.
>For your life is short,
>and time will claim its toll.

http://www.splicetoday.com/music/why-they-suck-bob-dylan

>“Voice of a generation” couldn’t write.

Read this.

I learned lyrics and how to write them from listening to folk songs. And I played them, and I met other people that played them back when nobody was doing it. Sang nothing but these folk songs, and they gave me the code for everything that's fair game, that everything belongs to everyone.

For three or four years all I listened to were folk standards. I went to sleep singing folk songs. I sang them everywhere, clubs, parties, bars, coffeehouses, fields, festivals. And I met other singers along the way who did the same thing and we just learned songs from each other. I could learn one song and sing it next in an hour if I'd heard it just once.

If you sang "John Henry" as many times as me -- "John Henry was a steel-driving man / Died with a hammer in his hand / John Henry said a man ain't nothin' but a man / Before I let that steam drill drive me down / I'll die with that hammer in my hand."

If you had sung that song as many times as I did, you'd have written "How many roads must a man walk down?" too.

Big Bill Broonzy had a song called "Key to the Highway." "I've got a key to the highway / I'm booked and I'm bound to go / Gonna leave here runnin' because walking is most too slow." I sang that a lot. If you sing that a lot, you just might write,

Georgia Sam he had a bloody nose

Welfare Department they wouldn’t give him no clothes

He asked poor Howard where can I go

Howard said there’s only one place I know

Sam said tell me quick man I got to run

Howard just pointed with his gun

And said that way down on Highway 61

You'd have written that too if you'd sang "Key to the Highway" as much as me.

"Ain't no use sit 'n cry / You'll be an angel by and by / Sail away, ladies, sail away." "I'm sailing away my own true love." "Boots of Spanish Leather" -- Sheryl Crow just sung that.

"Roll the cotton down, aw, yeah, roll the cotton down / Ten dollars a day is a white man's pay / A dollar a day is the black man's pay / Roll the cotton down." If you sang that song as many times as me, you'd be writing "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more," too.

>>8615803
homer was pop. 15 000 people watched the tragedies performed at the dionysia, it had much more in common with woodstock than with modern-day highbrow novelists. your cultural elitism was invented by the germans in the 19th century

I sang a lot of "come all you" songs. There's plenty of them. There's way too many to be counted. "Come along boys and listen to my tale / Tell you of my trouble on the old Chisholm Trail." Or, "Come all ye good people, listen while I tell / the fate of Floyd Collins a lad we all know well / The fate of Floyd Collins, a lad we all know well."

"Come all ye fair and tender ladies / Take warning how you court your men / They're like a star on a summer morning / They first appear and then they're gone again." "If you'll gather 'round, people / A story I will tell / 'Bout Pretty Boy Floyd, an outlaw / Oklahoma knew him well."

If you sung all these "come all ye" songs all the time, you'd be writing, "Come gather 'round people where ever you roam, admit that the waters around you have grown / Accept that soon you'll be drenched to the bone / If your time to you is worth saving / And you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone / The times they are a-changing."

You'd have written them too. There's nothing secret about it. You just do it subliminally and unconsciously, because that's all enough, and that's all I sang. That was all that was dear to me. They were the only kinds of songs that made sense.

"When you go down to Deep Ellum keep your money in your socks / Women in Deep Ellum put you on the rocks." Sing that song for a while and you just might come up with, "When you're lost in the rain in Juarez and it's Easter time too / And your gravity fails and negativity don't pull you through / Don’t put on any airs / When you’re down on Rue Morgue Avenue / They got some hungry women there / And they really make a mess outta you."

All these songs are connected. Don't be fooled. I just opened up a different door in a different kind of way. It's just different, saying the same thing. I didn't think it was anything out of the ordinary.

Well you know, I just thought I was doing something natural, but right from the start, my songs were divisive for some reason. They divided people. I never knew why. Some got angered, others loved them. Didn't know why my songs had detractors and supporters. A strange environment to have to throw your songs into, but I did it anyway.

Last thing I thought of was who cared about what song I was writing. I was just writing them. I didn't think I was doing anything different. I thought I was just extending the line. Maybe a little bit unruly, but I was just elaborating on situations. Maybe hard to pin down, but so what? A lot of people are hard to pin down. You've just got to bear it. I didn't really care what Lieber and Stoller thought of my songs.

>>8615852
well actually they are a collection of songs, i don't know whether hippie or not. you should try reading them, they're great!

They didn't like 'em, but Doc Pomus did. That was all right that they didn't like 'em, because I never liked their songs either. "Yakety yak, don't talk back." "Charlie Brown is a clown," "Baby I'm a hog for you." Novelty songs. They weren't saying anything serious. Doc's songs, they were better. "This Magic Moment." "Lonely Avenue." Save the Last Dance for Me.

Those songs broke my heart. I figured I'd rather have his blessings any day than theirs.

Ahmet Ertegun didn't think much of my songs, but Sam Phillips did. Ahmet founded Atlantic Records. He produced some great records: Ray Charles, Ray Brown, just to name a few.

There were some great records in there, no question about it. But Sam Phillips, he recorded Elvis and Jerry Lee, Carl Perkins and Johnny Cash. Radical eyes that shook the very essence of humanity. Revolution in style and scope. Heavy shape and color. Radical to the bone. Songs that cut you to the bone. Renegades in all degrees, doing songs that would never decay, and still resound to this day. Oh, yeah, I'd rather have Sam Phillips' blessing any day.

Merle Haggard didn't even think much of my songs. I know he didn't. He didn't say that to me, but I know [inaudible]. Buck Owens did, and he recorded some of my early songs. Merle Haggard -- "Mama Tried," "The Bottle Let Me Down," "I'm a Lonesome Fugitive." I can't imagine Waylon Jennings singing "The Bottle Let Me Down."

"Together Again"? That's Buck Owens, and that trumps anything coming out of Bakersfield. Buck Owens and Merle Haggard? If you have to have somebody's blessing -- you figure it out.

Oh, yeah. Critics have been giving me a hard time since Day One. Critics say I can't sing. I croak. Sound like a frog. Why don't critics say that same thing about Tom Waits? Critics say my voice is shot. That I have no voice. What don't they say those things about Leonard Cohen? Why do I get special treatment? Critics say I can't carry a tune and I talk my way through a song. Really? I've never heard that said about Lou Reed. Why does he get to go scot-free?

What have I done to deserve this special attention? No vocal range? When's the last time you heard Dr. John? Why don't you say that about him? Slur my words, got no diction. Have you people ever listened to Charley Patton or Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters. Talk about slurred words and no diction. [Inaudible] doesn't even matter.

"Why me, Lord?" I would say that to myself.

Critics say I mangle my melodies, render my songs unrecognizable. Oh, really? Let me tell you something. I was at a boxing match a few years ago seeing Floyd Mayweather fight a Puerto Rican guy. And the Puerto Rican national anthem, somebody sang it and it was beautiful. It was heartfelt and it was moving.

After that it was time for our national anthem. And a very popular soul-singing sister was chosen to sing. She sang every note -- that exists, and some that don't exist. Talk about mangling a melody. You take a one-syllable word and make it last for 15 minutes? She was doing vocal gymnastics like she was on a trapeze act. But to me it was not funny.

Where were the critics? Mangling lyrics? Mangling a melody? Mangling a treasured song? No, I get the blame. But I don't really think I do that. I just think critics say I do.

Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, "Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth." Think about that the next time you [inaudible].

Times always change. They really do. And you have to always be ready for something that's coming along and you never expected it. Way back when, I was in Nashville making some records and I read this article, a Tom T. Hall interview. Tom T. Hall, he was bitching about some kind of new song, and he couldn't understand what these new kinds of songs that were coming in were about.

Now Tom, he was one of the most preeminent songwriters of the time in Nashville. A lot of people were recording his songs and he himself even did it. But he was all in a fuss about James Taylor, a song James had called "Country Road." Tom was going off in this interview -- "But James don't say nothing about a country road. He's just says how you can feel it on the country road. I don't understand that."

Now some might say Tom is a great songwriter. I'm not going to doubt that. At the time he was doing this interview I was actually listening to a song of his on the radio.

It was called "I Love." I was listening to it in a recording studio, and he was talking about all the things he loves, an everyman kind of song, trying to connect with people. Trying to make you think that he's just like you and you're just like him. We all love the same things, and we're all in this together. Tom loves little baby ducks, slow-moving trains and rain. He loves old pickup trucks and little country streams. Sleeping without dreams. Bourbon in a glass. Coffee in a cup. Tomatoes on the vine, and onions.

>>8615806
"The Flowers of Evil" is a manga that makes explicit references to Baudelaire:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flowers_of_Evil_%28manga%29

Is this manga literature now?

>>8615798
So, if Bob Dylan never wrote a single piece of music and only published his lyrics under the form of poetry books... do you think he would have been "the voice of his generation"? Would he have the Nobel prize now? Come on.

>>8615890
>Is this manga literature now?
yes

are all the nobel prizes a joke? i thought it was just peace.

Now listen, I'm not ever going to disparage another songwriter. I'm not going to do that. I'm not saying it's a bad song. I'm just saying it might be a little overcooked. But, you know, it was in the top 10 anyway. Tom and a few other writers had the whole Nashville scene sewed up in a box. If you wanted to record a song and get it in the top 10 you had to go to them, and Tom was one of the top guys. They were all very comfortable, doing their thing.

This was about the time that Willie Nelson picked up and moved to Texas. About the same time. He's still in Texas. Everything was very copacetic. Everything was all right until -- until -- Kristofferson came to town. Oh, they ain't seen anybody like him. He came into town like a wildcat, flew his helicopter into Johnny Cash's backyard like a typical songwriter. And he went for the throat. "Sunday Morning Coming Down."

Well, I woke up Sunday morning

With no way to hold my head that didn't hurt.

And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad

So I had one more for dessert

Then I fumbled through my closet

Found my cleanest dirty shirt

Then I washed my face and combed my hair

And stumbled down the stairs to meet the day.

You can look at Nashville pre-Kris and post-Kris, because he changed everything. That one song ruined Tom T. Hall's poker parties. It might have sent him to the crazy house. God forbid he ever heard any of my songs.

You walk into the room

With your pencil in your hand

You see somebody naked

You say, “Who is that man?”

You try so hard

But you don’t understand

Just what you're gonna say

When you get home

You know something is happening here

But you don’t know what it is

Do you, Mister Jones?

If "Sunday Morning Coming Down" rattled Tom's cage, sent him into the looney bin, my song surely would have made him blow his brains out, right there in the minivan. Hopefully he didn't hear it.

>>8615890
There isn't a written form that isn't literature.
My shitposting is literature.

I just released an album of standards, all the songs usually done by Michael Buble, Harry Connick Jr., maybe Brian Wilson's done a couple, Linda Ronstadt done 'em. But the reviews of their records are different than the reviews of my record.

In their reviews no one says anything. In my reviews, [inaudible] they've got to look under every stone when it comes to me. They've got to mention all the songwriters' names. Well that's OK with me. After all, they're great songwriters and these are standards. I've seen the reviews come in, and they'll mention all the songwriters in half the review, as if everybody knows them. Nobody's heard of them, not in this time, anyway. Buddy Kaye, Cy Coleman, Carolyn Leigh, to name a few.

But, you know, I'm glad they mention their names, and you know what? I'm glad they got their names in the press. It might have taken some time to do it, but they're finally there. I can only wonder why it took so long. My only regret is that they're not here to see it.

Traditional rock 'n' roll, we're talking about that. It's all about rhythm. Johnny Cash said it best: "Get rhythm. Get rhythm when you get the blues." Very few rock 'n' roll bands today play with rhythm. They don't know what it is. Rock 'n' roll is a combination of blues, and it's a strange thing made up of two parts. A lot of people don't know this, but the blues, which is an American music, is not what you think it is. It's a combination of Arabic violins and Strauss waltzes working it out. But it's true.

The other half of rock 'n' roll has got to be hillbilly. And that's a derogatory term, but it ought not to be. That's a term that includes the Delmore Bros., Stanley Bros., Roscoe Holcomb, Clarence Ashley ... groups like that. Moonshiners gone berserk. Fast cars on dirt roads. That's the kind of combination that makes up rock 'n' roll, and it can't be cooked up in a science laboratory or a studio.

You have to have the right kind of rhythm to play this kind of music. If you can't hardly play the blues, how do you [inaudible] those other two kinds of music in there? You can fake it, but you can't really do it.

"What do you do for a living, man?"

"Oh, I confound expectations."

You're going to get a job, the man says, "What do you do?" "Oh, confound expectations.: And the man says, "Well, we already have that spot filled. Call us back. Or don't call us, we'll call you." Confounding expectations. What does that mean? 'Why me, Lord? I'd confound them, but I don't know how to do it.'

The Blackwood Bros. have been talking to me about making a record together. That might confound expectations, but it shouldn't. Of course it would be a gospel album. I don't think it would be anything out of the ordinary for me. Not a bit. One of the songs I'm thinking about singing is "Stand By Me" by the Blackwood Brothers. Not "Stand By Me" the pop song. No. The real "Stand By Me."

The real one goes like this:

When the storm of life is raging / Stand by me / When the storm of life is raging / Stand by me / When the world is tossing me / Like a ship upon the sea / Thou who rulest wind and water / Stand by me

In the midst of tribulation / Stand by me / In the midst of tribulation / Stand by me / When the hosts of hell assail / And my strength begins to fail / Thou who never lost a battle / Stand by me

In the midst of faults and failures / Stand by me / In the midst of faults and failures / Stand by me / When I do the best I can / And my friends don't understand / Thou who knowest all about me / Stand by me

That's the song. I like it better than the pop song. If I record one by that name, that's going to be the one. I'm also thinking of recording a song, not on that album, though: "Oh Lord, Please Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood."

Anyway, why me, Lord. What did I do?

>>8615859
This so much.

Anyway, I'm proud to be here tonight for MusiCares. I'm honored to have all these artists singing my songs. There's nothing like that. Great artists. [applause, inaudible]. They're all singing the truth, and you can hear it in their voices.

I'm proud to be here tonight for MusiCares. I think a lot of this organization. They've helped many people. Many musicians who have contributed a lot to our culture. I'd like to personally thank them for what they did for a friend of mine, Billy Lee Riley. A friend of mine who they helped for six years when he was down and couldn't work. Billy was a son of rock 'n' roll, obviously.

He was a true original. He did it all: He played, he sang, he wrote. He would have been a bigger star but Jerry Lee came along. And you know what happens when someone like that comes along. You just don't stand a chance.

So Billy became what is known in the industry -- a condescending term, by the way -- as a one-hit wonder. But sometimes, just sometimes, once in a while, a one-hit wonder can make a more powerful impact than a recording star who's got 20 or 30 hits behind him. And Billy's hit song was called "Red Hot," and it was red hot. It could blast you out of your skull and make you feel happy about it. Change your life.

He did it with style and grace. You won't find him in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's not there. Metallica is. Abba is. Mamas and the Papas -- I know they're in there. Jefferson Airplane, Alice Cooper, Steely Dan -- I've got nothing against them. Soft rock, hard rock, psychedelic pop. I got nothing against any of that stuff, but after all, it is called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Billy Lee Riley is not there. Yet.

I'd see him a couple times a year and we'd always spent time together and he was on a rockabilly festival nostalgia circuit, and we'd cross paths now and again. We'd always spend time together. He was a hero of mine. I'd heard "Red Hot." I must have been only 15 or 16 when I did and it's impressed me to this day.

>>8614456
So which Murakami book should I read?

>>8615882
>Iliad and Odyssey
>a collection of songs

No.

>>8615859
>pop
>highbrow

These ugly modern terms are not germane to talk about Ancient religious ceremonies and poems.

It's like saying the Catholic Mass is "pop" because it's performed in front of wide crowds.

I never grow tired of listening to it. Never got tired of watching Billy Lee perform, either. We spent time together just talking and playing into the night. He was a deep, truthful man. He wasn't bitter or nostalgic. He just accepted it. He knew where he had come from and he was content with who he was.

And then one day he got sick. And like my friend John Mellencamp would sing -- because John sang some truth today -- one day you get sick and you don't get better. That's from a song of his called "Life is Short Even on Its Longest Days." It's one of the better songs of the last few years, actually. I ain't lying.

And I ain't lying when I tell you that MusiCares paid for my friend's doctor bills, and helped him to get spending money. They were able to at least make his life comfortable, tolerable to the end. That is something that can't be repaid. Any organization that would do that would have to have my blessing.

I'm going to get out of here now. I'm going to put an egg in my shoe and beat it. I probably left out a lot of people and said too much about some. But that's OK. Like the spiritual song, 'I'm still just crossing over Jordan too.' Let's hope we meet again. Sometime. And we will, if, like Hank Williams said, "the good Lord willing and the creek don't rise."

>>8615890
I could easily see a poem like The Times They Are A-Changin' riling people up.

>>8615901
>written = literature HURRRRR

No. Your Amazon wishlist isn't literature. A program coded in C++ isn't literature. Me writing "JAJAJAJAJAJA" in blood letters on your mom's belly isn't literature. Stop being an edgy, contrarian 13-year-old.

He's using words to express truths about the human condition and how he sees the world. The important question for me isn't whether or not it is literature, but whether or not it is art. And as far as I can tell it most certainly is art.

>>8615957
The only one being a contrarian is you. The word literature doesn't denote quality.

>>8615957
My Amazon is literature, deal with it.

>>8615957
It was the side saying Dylan's undeserving of the award that first said written = literature.

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>>8615954
Just saw the lyrics of this song.

They're amusing, because today we see a bunch of old baby boomers (the Nobel prize committee) celebrating their outdated 60s hippie culture, at the expense of the new generation who gets no recognition at all.

So they're basically conveying this message:

>Come NEETs and youngsters
>Throughout the land
>And don't criticize
>What you can't understand
>We the good old baby boomers
>We're beyond your demand
>Our old tastes aren't agin'
>Please get out with your new ones
>Now we're in charge and won't lend a hand
>For the times they aren't changin'

It seems as if /lit/ has doubts regarding the swedish academy and sort of believes they have a secret agenda. In sweden they are constantly called out for not picking enough women and african writer however in the US you bitch about Don Delilo or Philip Roth not being awarded. The swedish academy mainly consists out of old men who hold a very conservative view on literature. And if anything you get the feeling that they are politically right wing. One of the academy members Horace Engdahl writes and publishes collections of aforisms which are simply brilliant and shows of great knowledge. His latest aforism also sparked outrage because of his essentialist views on gender and his frankness telling it how it is.
On top of this the winners have often been great writers. Tranströmer, Herta Muller, Aleksijevitj and Jm coetzee are all writers i have had immense joy reading.
Your one sided image of the academy is pretty tragic and shows /lit/'s tendency to express opinions of what you really don't know much about.
Whether Bob Dylan was a good choice or not can be discussed. I think the choice was poor since there are definitely better writers out there, still the choice does not signify the death of the academy.

>>8616026
I have left 4chan for r/books due to years of swedish mismanagement and preferential treatment for certain writers and poets holding certain political and ideological views. The situation has gotten especially worse since the appointment of Bob Dylan as Greatest Poet of All Time, culminating in the seemingly unjustified firings of several valuable meme-writers. As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on 4chan, overwriting them with this message. If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script. Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of 4chan, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot. After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on r/books!

>>8615974
Indeed. I said ITT that a very bad poem still was literature, while a good song with a good text isn't.

Your songs can be amazing, poetic, well done, etc. But it's not literature. It's another art. I would have no problems with Bob Dylan winning the Nobel prize for music.

>>8615981
Okay.

>>8615991
Please re-read my post above:

>Does it mean you have to write anything on paper to create literature? No.

Anyone saying Dylan isn't literature clearly hasn't read his liner notes.

Or, you know, his actual books. Chronicles is the best "autobiography" I've ever read, precisely because it's more literary stream of consciousness than autobiography. Sure, Tarantula ain't that great, but the man could write worthy stuff even without a guitar.

>>8616062
>Chronicles is the best "autobiography" I've ever read, precisely because it's more literary stream of consciousnes
Yeah....no. It was Dylan having a laugh.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/12/bob-dylan-and-plagiarism/

>>8614509
he's mentioned because he's the only decent writer that normies care about

>>8616034
>>>8616026
answer instead, why are you on a forum for literature if you're just trolling

>>8616070

I have left 4chan for r/books due to years of swedish mismanagement and preferential treatment for certain writers and poets holding certain political and ideological views. The situation has gotten especially worse since the appointment of Bob Dylan as Greatest Poet of All Time, culminating in the seemingly unjustified firings of several valuable meme-writers. As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on 4chan, overwriting them with this message. If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script. Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of 4chan, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot. After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on r/books!

>>8616073
I have left 4chan for r/books due to years of swedish mismanagement and preferential treatment for certain writers and poets holding certain political and ideological views. The situation has gotten especially worse since the appointment of Bob Dylan as Greatest Poet of All Time, culminating in the seemingly unjustified firings of several valuable meme-writers. As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on 4chan, overwriting them with this message. If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script. Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of 4chan, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot. After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on r/books!

>>8616026
>they are politically right wing
You can't be serious. Sweden is SJW central, and the Swedish Academy systematically avoids rewarding right-wing writers. Why did Borges never win?

>the winners have often been great writers
Not "often", but sometimes. Le Clézio was a horrible choice, for example. The guy is a tool. There are 50 French writers who deserve it more. But as he's got retarded, soft "humanistic" views, he's good enough for the Nobel.

It has always been like that, though. The first Nobel ever went to Sully-Prudhomme, an utter joke.

>>8615478
>Do you routinely read Bob Dylan lyrics while disregarding the music?
What's such a big deal with "reading" to you? You know people can LISTEN to words too, right?

Music in Dylan is merely collateral, his success is 90% because of his words. I mean, have you listened to his fucking voice? It's not the most pleasing sound to listen to, I dare say, and yet people have been at it for generations: why on earth could that possibly be?

>>8616112
I was wondering what he was about, but his voice was awful so I never listened to him again.

>>8616099
>You can't be serious. Sweden is SJW central
America is SJW central

>and the Swedish Academy systematically avoids rewarding right-wing writers. Why did Borges never win?
Loads of good writers don't win.

>>8616116

dont feel lonely, thats the reaction of the rest of the planet when they try to find out who this Dylan guy Americans like so much is.

>>8616089

I have left 4chan for r/books due to years of swedish mismanagement and preferential treatment for certain writers and poets holding certain political and ideological views. The situation has gotten especially worse since the appointment of Bob Dylan as Greatest Poet of All Time, culminating in the seemingly unjustified firings of several valuable meme-writers. As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on 4chan, overwriting them with this message. If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script. Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of 4chan, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot. After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on r/books!

>>8616112
>>8616116
Dylans voice was intentional. Here's him singing with a "proper" technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww1gt6MHJRA

>>8616099
They are definitely conservatives. Many swedish academy members have a function in the swedish literary world like Harold bloom. I am a Swede and the general consensus in sweden i believe is that they are too conservative. In media many academy members often make short condescending remarks on the leftist tendencies in the swedish academic world.

I agree many of their choices have not been great. Don't really have a strong opinon on that, i just know some of their choices sometimes has made me discover new great authors.

>>8614457

Because you are a fucking pleb?

>>8615920
worst post in the thread

>>8616132
He sounds like a pussy Johnny Cash trying to pull off a Nick Cave without the expressiveness.
>>8616136
It's... Okay I guess.

>>8614393
I'd have liked it if someone relatively unknown got it who was actually a great writer. Someone like say Ivan Aralica.

>>8616099
>You can't be serious. Sweden is SJW central, and the Swedish Academy systematically avoids rewarding right-wing writers. Why did Borges never win?
You do realise that the Swedish art world is full of ultra-conservative aristocrats who are literally reactionaries? A lot of the meme reactionary bullshit you see in Europe comes from Sweden and Norway.

Everything about Dylan feels inauthentic. I'm glad someone brought up Johnny Cash as he's a good example of genuine expression.

>>8616227
Firstly, like what?
Secondly, if there is a conclave of reactionary critics, it is certainly not dominant in the Nobel comity.

>>8616233
Cash's entire image in the last decade or so of his life was created by Rick Rubin.

>>8616239
It's good he was an active musician for what, 60 years?

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>>8616244
50, actually. There are still plenty of other examples I can give. Cash made the claim that he was Native American in the mid 60s when he released Bitter Tears: Ballad of the American Indian and admitted years later that wasn't true.

Portions of Folsom Prison Blues are even lifted from another song for fuck's sake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdCtc1WE3E0

I like Cash, I was raised on him, but if you're going to make the claim that Dylan was inauthentic you have to say the same about Cash. If you really are a big fan of Cash anon, I recommend reading Johnny Cash: The Life by Robert Hilburn. It goes into detail about his fine touches and faults as a person and is authorized by Cash's family.

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>>8616227
>the Swedish art world is full of ultra-conservative aristocrats who are literally reactionaries?

Kek, I'm from Sweden and you're full of shit m8. Mention one besides maybe Johan Lundberg (mildly conservatice critic).

>>8614393
>minority from Tadjikazechnoslovakenia
right

if it's not an anglo

it's a minority

long live the queen
long live the empire

>>8616265
The inauthentic claim was made by another anon. I just commented that the image in the last 10 years isn't as big as the 40 year before that.
Of course I'm aware that he was an heroin addicted asshole for a long time.

>>8616279
It's an Anglo world, anon, you're just living in it.

This is some unbelievable bullshit, if you can get a Nobel just for being "influential" then might as well give the Physics prize to Neil deGrasse Tyson or the Big Bang Theory cast.

>>8615076
>>8615090
deep&edgy should have won

>>8616307
typical stuck-in-the-60s anglo

you're literally mentally living in a Matrix modeled by your peak era of civilization, while the chinese masterrace are slowly taking over the actual, real world

just bend down and enjoy the ride desu

>>8614414
Imaging they gave it to McCartney, that way not only /lit/ would be getting spammed, but /mu/ as well with Scaruffi copypasta

I wonder if will write about this considering he gives his body of work a 5.3/10 average, although Blonde on Blonde has a 9/10 and Highway 61 Revisited an 8/10.

http://www.scaruffi.com/vol1/dylan.html

>>8616238
I don't know anything about the Nobel comity but people have retarded ideas that Sweden is just like int memes. The Nordic art community has tonnes of rich conservatives who fund conservative art styles. Anglos are the ones doing all of the post-modern bullshit. See New simplicity vs New complexity for example.

>>8615574
(lyrics appropriated from an old English folk song)

>>8616351
Every Swedish person I've met told me it's like the memes.

The literature prize and the peace prize are not real nobels, what do you expect from subjective meaningless fields?

>>8614393
yes. at least i wouldnt know if he was overrated garbage or not

>>8615029
>his work is fluff
>posts a fucking movie clip to prove his point

lmao are you 16?

this board is cancer

>>8615365
If they are so great, why haven't I heard about them?

>>8614446
>>8614438
Chuckled at these

I wouldn't go that far but they're not terribly wrong either

He's just a YA author, I don't personally believe there's anything wrong with that but call a spade a spade, and recognize that it's not for everyone

>>8616351
>The Nordic art community has tonnes of rich conservatives who fund conservative art styles

Norway and Denmark actually have very interesting and varied literary and cultural scenes. In Sweden however the cultural elite pelted Knausgård with rocks for daring to write about mildly controversial topics like paedophilia, which is exactly why our cultural scene is stagnating fast. Swedish authors produce nothing outside of the prevailing political norm because they'd be burned at the stake by their own colleagues. All we shit out are the same shitty detective novels that all follow the same pattern.

>>8615437
>Hugo's
So what happened with the puppies thing?

>>8616152
Interesting, what is the reaction of SJW media in Sweden today?

>>8616227
>ultra-conservative aristocrats
Okay, but they're probably not dominant in the art world, just like the very conservative tastes of Prince Charles doesn't set the tone in the British art and architecture scene (he's not a Zaha Hadid type of lad).

>>8616460
The plane did not crash with no survivors.

>>8616427
Because you're a pleb with no culture whatsoever? Don't you know a single one of them, really? Céline? Borges? Heidegger?

>>8614393
next year Joaquín Sabina will win.

>>8615180
For peace, tough. Which is the prize that should be rewarded for legacy.

>>8615210
Get off my board

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>>8614416

>>8616491
fug

So what are they doing now?

Why even care? All nobel prizes unrelated to hard sciences are political tools and even some of those.

>>8616505
I know Céline Dion

>>8616539
Fighting via blogposts mostly.
Puppies publish their own stuff.
Hugos are still trash.

>>8616547
Hope she'll get a Nobel for literature too, maybe next year?

It's hard to imagine a worse outcome. It just feeds the artist worship in music so that whatever they like should win ALL THE AWARDS.

>>8614988
This

>>8615001
Or Young Thug

>>8616610
>artist worship

Yes. Pop singers just have it too good. They have money, fame, attention, public esteem, everything they want. They already completely overshadow classical music and classical poetry.

Yet it's not enough. Popstars now have to usurp the few little distinctions, like the Nobel, that were exclusively reserved to real poets; the last symbols that still allowed unknown artists to exist, to grab a minuscule bit of the spotlight once per year.

It looks like popular culture feels forced to swallow and destroy every ounce of the high culture it has diminished so much until now. That's what so sad about it. More money to the already rich, more fame to the already famous--and the serious artists can go hang themselves.

>Lmao writers, who cares about all your big books and all?

Reminder that ancient Greek poetry was sung to the accompaniment of music, and that the Iliad was sung.

>>8616152
>They are definitely conservatives. Many swedish academy members have a function in the swedish literary world like Harold bloom.
Qualify your statements more carefully. Harold Bloom is a literary conservative; he is not a political conservative.

>>8615150
THIS POSTER
IN MY SUBBOARD
HE COPIES PASTA

>>8615930
Probably 1Q84, it has the best sex scenes

>>8614416
kek