Science fiction's best author

Put my vote for Heinlein.

>>8483248
The only excuse for not voting Wolfe is not having read him.

>>8483302
He'll be on the almost made the cut list.

>>8483248
Where's Herbert?

>>8483248
>http://www.strawpoll.me/11175239
Why is Leguin even listed? This rather looks like a list of the most hyped.
My vote is for PKD anyway.

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Lem and Wolfe are kicking ass. Good voting mates. In a pleb community probably Asimov and Clarke would be taking the lead.

WHO WILL WIN? WHO WILL TAKE THE HOLLOW CROWN THAT ROUNDS THE MORTAL TEMPLES OF A KING?

>Objectively
Clarke
>Personally
Niven
>Honorary
Simmons

>>8483447
>Clarke
>Pleb

By the way, which are the best books by Lem and Gene?

>>8483469
>which are the best books by Lem
Depends on what you want. There's not a single best book, and I can easily name more than a half-dozen of the most notable ones

>>8483469

Lem:
The major novel is Solaris. One thing to note about it is that most of Lem's writing has some humor in it but Solaris does not, so it's atypical in that regard; his Tale of Two Cities. The Cyberiad is a very good collection of connected short stories. A Perfect Vacuum is a collection of reviews of fake books and is worthwhile. (Lem acknowledges his debt in it to Borges, who got more out of fewer words really.)

>>8483441
Good question, considering this is an overwhelmingly male board. It's more than a compromise for le feminism (I don't care for feminism of any sort t b h).

Le Guin is the writer that most significantly explores the fundamental sociology of space, a vein that Asimov flirted with, but failed to yield. If Wolfe and Lem have scifi's heights of brilliance, they are also often cold and sterile.

It is Le Guin who takes on a wider range of accessible themes, and is amiable enough to provide the warmth necessary to guide readers towards the fringe, which she herself excels at. All three meet the severe constraints of great literature. None of the three take themselves, or their works too seriously. And it's that state of mind that makes them all genuine contenders. In short, she's the refreshing light that clarifies colder, but equally skilled great writers.

Plus, Bloom, one of the century's most obese, misanthropic, insufferable snobs, has only the highest praise to Le Guin.

Ya'll need to get back in yer containment thread, ya hear?

>>8483248
Iain M. Banks
Stephen Baxter
Ted Chiang

>>8483475
>>8483469
Solaris is his single best book, but is potentially abstruse. For something with a more tangible current, read The Futurological Congress.

>>8483539
Solaris has very funny moments when it pokes fun of academic bureaucracy, but its overall tone is serious, mostly of transcendent regret. The Cyberiad is of course, primarily satirical, so to miss Solaris' humor in comparison is understandable.

>>8483558
I read both literary fiction and science fiction. I quite love both.

Let me tell you, the more people like you complain like a one dimensional nonce, the more will open minded readers increase in the fold.

Thank you for the answers

>>8483248
Ballard.

Thomas Pynchon.

I hate bad prose like Asimov's.

>>8483608
This. You, just like me, we are not fat manchildren!

>>8483475
>There's not a single best book
Do you even read?

>>8483441
Because she's actually a good author. One of the best in the genre.
>>8483548
While I can see Lem as someone who is at times sterile, I cannot say it's ever the case with Wolfe. His ability to create characters always brings his works alive, even if they are otherwise mediocre. >>8483558
The containment thread is basically /v/ and /tg/ book discussion. It's almost impossible to discuss literary science fiction there.
>>8483568
The difference between the two as if they were somehow wholly different doesn't exist. It's a literary movement in the same way romanticism was, and it also has both garbage and brilliance.

>>8483248
>lem winning
finally this board gets something right holy shit

>>8483675
I find it hard to believe. Not because he isn't great, but because Lem never had much traction and scored low on the favorite writers/novels, like 2-3 votes.

>>8483641
Book of the New Sun's characters are very strongly developed. They are some of the most memorable characters in science fiction that I can think of. The problem is, they're overwhelmingly bleak, as is the mood of the dying world. Thecla is condescending and in a grim situation. Any nice moments involving her are muddled by Severian's unreliable ideation. Dorcas is probably the most likeable, but she gets treated like a doormat by everyone else. Palaemon is caring, but though he favors Severian, he doesn't quite provide a character-establishing bro moment, and furthermore, it's implied that he's been conspiring over Severian all along. As was the Undine, though she probably was in love with Severian.

Sometimes I wish Wolfe made Roche and Jonas funnier to balance Severian's autistic self-centeredness and ramblings, but alas.

>>8483697
The bleakness isn't there for most of his other works, except maybe Fifth Head of Cerberus.
And bleak is very different from sterile. Sterile is something I'd describe Asimov with, but certainly not Wolfe, especially not as a whole.

>>8483707
Sterile is definitely and adjective for Asimov, not Wolfe. I recently read Foundation and honestly, besides the first book (where we get the interesting ideas - psychohistory and science as religion) it wasn't really anything special. Just dry, boring prose with no rhyme or art to it, imo.

>>8483707
Fair point. Wolfe's corpus crosses different emotions with depth, though New Sun is almost synonymous with his name.

Urth's sun is literally dying, and life on the planet following it, to the point where even noblemen have to exhume corpses for food, raising children is the last thing on people's minds, and mad scientists have free range to sodomize children and experiment with dead pregnant women. The New Sun has both bleak and sterile themes, but Severian's Thomist invocation of the Increate, and final triumph, likely equilibrizes the scenario.

>>8483726
and more twists than in a Nolan movie

>>8483734
New Sun's hidden brilliance lies with its ability to show people how to look the world through the eyes of a thomist, something incredibly alien to the modern utilitarian naturalistic man.
That said, the eating of the dead is not for purposes of food, it's ritualistic and religious in nature.
The twistedness of Urth is shown through the perversion of the Eucharist, the pinnacle of moral decay, as far as he could show it, in symbols.

>>8483248
First option, best option.

>>8483641
>>8483641
>>>8483558
>The containment thread is basically /v/ and /tg/ book discussion. It's almost impossible to discuss literary science fiction there.

This is sorely true.

Ignore the petty bureaucrats, they're powerless and can't enforce their impotent views on this board.

>>8483248

Lem I don't know that well but what I've read didn't impress me

Wolfe is a genius and a brilliant writer but one thing about him is that he doesn't really invent any SF ideas. Similar to PKD, he is an expert remixer and reanalyzer of tropes developed by others (robots, psychics, clones, future causation etc.) However I think he sometimes makes things confusing and hard to read for the hell of it.

Le Guin, good writer but somewhat overrated. The Left Hand of Darkness was probably way more shocking and interesting in the late 60s than now. Also she isn't much of an inventor of new ideas either. Take the concept of Gethenians, beings whose moods/physiology/fertility changes with the lunar phase, I wonder where a woman would have been inspired to come up with this idea. Later her writing got way too preachy. Her stories also tend to feature some facile and watered down "Tao of Pooh" tier Taoism shorn of any cultural context.

PKD, I love this guy, the gonzo way he combines these bizarre scenarios and twists. His writing is so weird and intriguing but never obscure or hard for its own sake and constantly brings in these odd ideas from sociology, theology, mental health, psychopharmacology etc. However his prose style is not the greatest.

Clarke, by far the most influential on the real world, great idea guy, can't write characters to save his life

Asimov, classic golden age ideas but his work doesn't stand up to repeated reading and is completely uninterested in the social dimension of things. The sperglord's favorite SF writer.

Gibson, great technical effects and aesthetics, clearly heavily influenced by Pynchon et al. But can feel overly pessimistic. Doesn't seem to be interested in relationships as much as how tech affects people.

Zelazny, why is he on this list, his best known works are fantasy.

I would vote for Alfred Bester over all of these guys. The Stars My Destination might be the best SF novel ever on the level of energy and style.

Opinions on Dune, senpai?

>>8483752
>the eating of the dead is not for purposes of food, it's ritualistic and religious in nature.
Both are the case. Men cannot live on faith or bread alone.

>>8483761
>inventing ideas
>keeping timeless writers in historical context
>mostly whining about flaws

You need to detoxify

>>8483781
But eating of the dead in the New Sun was never out of hunger, at least not to my knowledge. Certainly not with Vodalus and his lover having a bite of Thecla.
>>8483761
You overstate the importance of the idea in science fiction.
It's always about the execution, the idea can be banal and still captivating to read or... Well Asimov.
Lord of Light is Zelazny's most famous work and This Immortal too is sf. Makes sense for him to be there.
>>8483771
It's okay. I never understood why someone would absolutely love it, but it's a decent novel.

>>8483248
>someone actually voted for LeGuin
But I thought we scared all the tasteless leftists back to Plebbit. Why are they still here?

>>8483820
I'm the regular Catholic poster and I like her.
Books can be interesting regardless of ideology. Disregarding because of it is the true reddit.

>>8483823
Sniffed you from a mile away Marc

>>8483834
Not even him. But close. He's probably in the thread too.

>0 votes for Gibson

LMAO
MAO
AO
O

Someone will probably pity vote for him.

>>8483802
It's left vague and open ended, but the corpse at the beginning of the first novel didn't definitively coincide with any ritual date. Unless you want to fish it up and prove me wrong, which I'd be delighted about.

>>8483854
Vodalus is not a poor man (the asimi, the gun and him having men in the first place), I always assumed it was the same with that corpse as it was with Thecla.
Alongside that, the perversion of the Eucharist could happen once a week, just like the real thing, I don't see a necessity for a particular date.
>>8483844
I hope not, he's an untalented hack.

>>8483880
That makes sense, I'm very likely wrong. Thank you.

all these fucking araminiposters.

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>>8483891

>>8483891
IT'S A GOOD THING I HAVE TO SAY

>>8483895
You're one of my favorite anons here :)

>>8483248
Niven.

>>8483248
Robert Heinlein

>>8483952
[NO]

Oh shit Wolfe and Lem are toe to toe now.

>>8483952
You just won the "plebbest opinion of the thread" award.

>>8483952
DELETE THIS

>>8483675
Wolfe is currently in the lead.

Cross posting the /g/ thread. They really love PKD and Asimov.

>>>/g/56482213

>>8484253
>Cross posting
This kills the poll

>>8484253
oh that's why the poll has gone retarded
useless now

Jeff Noons vurt beats all your faggot Sci fi books.

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>>8484276
Fortunately I saved a screen of the young toned bouncy haired poll.

At the end result, we can safely crop off Asimov and PKD, due to their deficiencies in style and depth. It's really Lem or Wolfe.

what about frank herbert?

>>8484273
>>8484276
Wow, even the genre fiction guys who get shit on by the literary fiction fags still end up pretending they're better

You people haven't improved at all

>>8484466
except I'm not a genre fiction guy

>>8484307

Thanks for bringing back the good old hour

>>8484253
Well, you did make me look through the whole thread to figure out what had gone wrong enough for a /lit/ poll to have /reddit/ results

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Dae bak! Wolfe's back on top!

Thank you completely legitimate possibly Korean whose name might be Kim Lee Soong vote spammers.

>>8483761
>wolfe is a genius
>wolfe
>genius
>GENIUS
no. fuck no. name one god damn genius thing he's ever written, post something exemplifies this genius, and makes it plain for everyone to see. the guy is and always will be a sub-par author and one who writes within a sub-par genre. genius my fucking crusty asshole.

>> makes it plain for everyone to see.

Waaah, please interpret wolfe for me, waaah, im too fucking thick to get wolfe, waaaah, wolfe is shit because i dont get it, waaaah

What an entitled fucking moron, end yourself

>>8484992
>i literally have no quotes or excerpts from my favorite author in the whole wide world who i call a genius

fucking plebs.

>>8484980
>what is Book of the New Sun

>>8485002
Im not the guy you quoted, im just pointing out what a plebby, hold-my-hand-through-this-book little bitch youre being. And since you care so much about quotes, since you said wolfe is shit, why dont you show us some examples too you fucking neet waste of life?

>>8485006
show an excerpt, just something for lawd seks.
here's an example of what i like to call genius.
Gwyon had already made the carriage barn and thrown the door open. There was electricity there, and Gwyon stood just inside, his great hand on the switch and his thumb jamming it back and forth, back and forth, with no consequence but a snap. —Damnation, Gwyon muttered; and then, aware of someone behind him, said, —The bull. I came down to make sure of the bull . . . But Gwyon had hardly got the words out of his mouth before his upraised arm was grasped in the dark so heavily that it almost pulled him over; and the lightning followed so fast on the words that followed, that both were gone, and the transformation was complete, when Gwyon heard,
—Father . . . Am I the man for whom Christ died?
Louder than laughter, the crash raised and sundered them in a blinding agony of light in which nothing existed until it was done, and the tablet of darkness betrayed the vivid, motionless, extinct and enduring image of the bull in his stall and Janet bent open beneath him.
Then it seemed full minutes before the cry, pursuing them with its lashing end, flailed through darkness and stung them to earth. Water fell between them, from a hole in the roof. The smell of smoke reached them in the dark.

>>8485021
You called wolfe subpar, so how about you show us an example of his mediocrity. Have you ever even read wolfe or are you just another kid who doesnt actually read and only knows authors names when theyre memed on /lit/?

>>8485027
>still can't produce even a smidgen of evidence of wolfe's "genius"

fuckin pleb.

>>8485027
yep, just authors memed on /lit/


The agitation that ringed Petersburg then began penetrating to the very centers of Petersburg. It first seized the islands, then crossed the Liteiny and Nikolaevsky Bridges. On Nevsky Prospect circulated a human myriapod. However, the composition of the myriapod kept changing; and an observer could now note the appearance of a shaggy black fur hat from the fields of bloodstained Manchuria. There was a sharp drop in the percentage of passing top hats. Now were heard the disturbing antigovernment cries of street urchins running at full tilt from the railway station to the Admiralty waving gutter rags.
Those were foggy days, Strange days. Noxious October marched on. Dust whirled through the city in dun brown vortexes, and the rustling crimson fell submissively at the feet to wind and chase at the feet, and whish, plaiting yellow-red scatterings of words from leaves.

>>8485031

I didn't call him a genius. You called him mediocre. Burden of proof's in your court son. fuckin pleb. yuck yuck yuck.

>>8485049
no, you didn't, but the person i was talking to did. if you have no claims towards the quality of gene wolfe's writing, then you can fuck off, eh?

>>8485049
>>8485060
BOYS

L Ron Hubbard

>>8485060

The only claim I made was that you're a whiny little bitch who can't actually go read for himself and has to be spoonfed every little thing - that's why you don't like Wolfe. No one owes you jack shit, go read him yourself and figure his books out, you worthless cunt. God I can't wait till summer's over.

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>>8485074
i'm not even whining, here i am, posting great excerpts, and challenging the idea of genius in someone ELSE'S opinion, and you, a measly fly keeps buzzing in my ear. flee, fly, flee.

>>8485081
>Once she was certain which way was south, she counted off her paces. The stream appeared at eight. Thecla cupped her hands to drink. The water made her belly cramp, but cramps were easier to bear than thirst.
Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water. When she closed her eyes at last, Thecla did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again. Moon blood, it’s only my moon blood, but she did not remember ever having such a heavy flow. Could it be the water? If it was the water, she was doomed. She had to drink or die of thirst.

>>8485114
GRRM, what a genius, really. looking at his descriptions and fluidity of writing, he blows gene out of the water.

>>8485081
Yet all you can do is meme excerpts because you can't say anything worthwhile about literature, because you're a one off nonce. I'd more readily believe that the anon you were arguing with can contribute a greater deal than you.

>>8485248
then go talk to him, how bout that, punk? if you want worthwhile dialogue with that guy, initiate it. don't fucking try a pissing match with me, faggot.

>Asimov 50
>Le Guin 5
Material enough to feed a modern academic for a month, this is.

>>8484980
>crusty asshole
I'd get that checked out m9, boipucci is supposed to be moist and juicy.

>>8484466
Lem and Wolfe aren't genre fiction tho.
The thing is, just about everyone reads science fiction, judging from the 100+ people on gr and the genre fiction versus literary fiction is a meme perpetuated by retards who don't read at all or at least never gave the best ones a try.

>>8485021
Where is this from?
And for a random quote it requires way too much context, I don't exactly know what's going on.
>>8485048
Where is this from?
>>8485296
He decided to fuck up the poll by posting it on /g/ for no reason.

I've never read works by Wolfe so I went on his Wikipedia page...and all the books listed seem fantasy instead of sci-fi.
Could someone tell me which are his best books of the latter genre?

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>>8483248
Bester would be my pick if he was in the poll.

Out of those available I went for Lem.

>>8485623
Book of the New Sun, Fifth Head of Cerberus

>>8485594
You're welcome you little bitch

>>8485262
Okay, if I want worthwhile dialogue I'll try it with someone who isn't you.

You're clearly not worth anyone's time. And if it came to a pissing match, you would certainly lose.

>science fiction authors
>no Wells
>no Verne
step it up guys

>>8486241
I've read only Time Machine, which was mediocre, and War of the Worlds, which was a crime as far as prose and characters go. It's hard to believe how dry it is.

>>8483319
I read him.

Overrated.

>>8485594
What's the matter you dickless bookworm cucks? Mad that another board can dictate your board culture?

If you can't see past your asshole, get used to it.

>>8486252
No you didn't.
He's a genius.

See butthurt Anon
>>8485074

>>8486280
>What's the matter you dickless bookworm cucks? Mad that another board can dictate your board culture?
I'm confused by the idea that you should go to the board in which the average voter has read a total of 10 books, 4 of which are science fiction to vote on the best author of the movement which has had at least 15 extremely relevant, in terms of influence and quality, authors.
>If you can't see past your asshole, get used to it.
Get used to what? This single poll being fucked up?

>>8486241
>Verne
Absolutely. (I mentioned him in the previous thread.) Strong on character, plot, and vision all together. Even without Nemo in it, I would take The Mysterious Island over Robinson Crusoe for a survival tale any day.
>Wells
Not really. He wrote some significant titles, but on reread his writing doesn't stand up and for the most part seems like he phoned it in. (I will recognize the breadth of his writing--he was a forerunner of Asimov in that respect--but I think it corresponds to a lack of depth.)

>>8483952
You spelt Haldeman wrong.

who are the autists voting Asimov? i knew lit had gone downhill but fucking hell

>>8486309
Newsflash, /g/ are more than autistic stemlords. You might know a thing or two if you actually read.

>>8486348
The poll was posted on /g/.
And the sffghetto didn't vote because they read mostly trash fantasy. It was Wolfe and Lem, Asimov being behind Dick.

>>8486358
Which books should I read to enlighten myself on the idea that /g/ doesn't have a shit taste as seen in this thread?

>>8486348
people who can't bear more that 2 lines of descriptions

>>8486309
>15

Yeah right. Name them. I bet most of them are as vapid as your claim.

>>8486359
>The poll was posted on /g/.
No shit?

If you can't offer a conclusive reason why overrated writers like Wolfe are better than Asimov, then maybe the consensus is right that Asimov really is the greater writer in science fiction.

>Wolfe

gentle reminder that your teenage fantasy garbage will never be science fiction

>People are salty that asimov is liked

>>8486314
Fair critique on Wells. I guess I just can't ignore how much he shaped the then-fledgling genre.
Glad to meet another Verne fan here. Seems like /lit/ forgets him most of the time.

>>8486285
I read 'Book of the New Sun' after I finished Ulysses. It pales in comparison.

If Wolfe is the best SF can come up with, then SF will never be literature.

>>8486481
>If Wolfe is the best SF can come up with, then SF will never be literature.
No. Wolfe is for plebs who can't read literature but still wants to feel like patricians

>>8486392
His ability to create characters, pretty essential to literature. Something Asimov lacked completely.
His ability to write captivating prose. Something Asimov lacked entirely.
Wolfe wrote novels which deal with themes much more profound than Asimov, who was in it mostly for ideas.
These three are pretty conclusive in themselves, I can post a few essays on symbolism in Wolfe later on, as his works contamin many layers.
>>8486376
Lem, Wolfe, Le Guin, R. A. Laffery, Herbert, Clarke, Wells, Dick, Ballard, Verne, Strugatsky brothers, Miller, Zelazny, Vance, Bester, Chesterton.
>>8486471
Mostly because I've read him as a kid and the memory has by now mostly faded away.
>>8486481
Most literature will pale in comparison to Ulysses. It's absolutely retarded to judge something as 'not literature' because it's inferior to Ulysses and because it is in the future.
That said, Book of the New Sun is a brilliant work, if anything on par with other Joyce's works, Wolfe's short stories and novellas are often more interesting than Borges and he generally has all the qualities to be considered a great artist.
The arguments against Wolfe are never 'element which was sub pair', I only remember seeing it once in a discussion here, cheers to that anon, it's always his ties to science fiction and fantasy, because people are idiots who arbitrarily asign value to an aesthetic as if it was supremely important to the quality of the work.

>>8486577
>Lem, Wolfe, Le Guin, R. A. Laffery, Herbert, Clarke, Wells, Dick, Ballard, Verne, Strugatsky brothers, Miller, Zelazny, Vance, Bester, Chesterton.
Shit list. If this is the best that you can serve about scifi, you're rightfully put down for reading it.

>>8486598
The only putting down happens in here by pretentious idiots who've read a total of 40 books, most of which is Pynchon and Wallace and have attempted to understand Joyce, but failed and now pretend they love him for imaginary patrician points.

>>8486577
Dubs demand I give "Book of the New Sun" another chance. Perhaps I'll get more out of it this time.

>>8486626

Have fun

>>8486598
Congratulations! You're special (in the sense that you have special needs).

>>8486577
Your DEEP symbolism is irrelevant since anyone can attach whatever meaning to a symbol.

Asimov's themes and ideas are vaster, by far, than Wolfe's, and it shows since he has a wider readership, and following among other writers. You could say that Wolfe is a footnote to Asimov. Arguments against him rely on him having bad prose and characters, but these are wrong. He was a skilled writer, much higher than pulp hack work, and wrote crisp prose, with quiet moments of poetic beauty. Only certain of his characters, like the Mule have psychological profundity, and for good reason, he was taking a page from Paradise Lost and developing his dark horses the most.

/g/ tastes > /lit/ tastes

>>8486427
I love Asimov but there is no point to including him in a list of "best SF writers", of the sort which includes Lem, other than weeding out plebeian votes. sorry

>>8486626
People are often put off by certain elements, such as not differentiation Severian and Wolfe (certain things he does are juvenile, because he's 18 or so) and the plot and symbols start to converge only about 300-400 pages in so until then you are left in the dark about a lot of things. Of course that's where a lot of the fun comes from for me and a lot of other wolfags.
While we are at symbols, the reading is enhanced if you know your Catholic symbolism, so the meta narrative and the story of the setting will unveil themselves largely through them.
Severian is a Christ like entity, or rather a prophet who resembles Christ and it's his story of redemption and the birth of the new man.
>>8486636
>Your DEEP symbolism is irrelevant since anyone can attach whatever meaning to a symbol.
Of course, but that's true for all literature.
The beauty is that the story can be made sense of without them, or with a general knowledge of the New Testament. But it's in no way his fault you are a philistine who cannot connect the dots, such as Severian turning water into wine, or the Eucharist or Pas/Satan parallel.
>Asimov's themes and ideas are vaster, by far, than Wolfe's, and it shows since he has a wider readership, and following among other writers.
He wrote a dozen of what if robots did x stories and stuff like that. They are more numerous, but also largely just a thought experiment, which mostly serves as entertainment. His wider readership argument could of course imply that a lot of completely awful writers are better than say Babel, who doesn't have a huge readership in 2016 America.
>You could say that Wolfe is a footnote to Asimov.
You couldn't, since there is little of Asimov in Wolfe. You could say he is a footnote to Proust, Borges or Chesterton, but not for Asimov.
He is less popular, but we cannot say he was less influential mostly because he came later and influenced the younger generation of writers (Gaiman, Grrum, Wright, Swanwick). Being 30 years younger is a large different. It's like saying that Dostoevsky is a footnote to Gogol.
>Arguments against him rely on him having bad prose and characters, but these are wrong. He was a skilled writer, much higher than pulp hack work, and wrote crisp prose, with quiet moments of poetic beauty.
Chrisp prose is the code word for I don't read and descriptions are boring. His prose is lifeless and dull, mechanical and devoid of aesthetic beauty.
>Only certain of his characters, like the Mule have psychological profundity, and for good reason, he was taking a page from Paradise Lost and developing his dark horses the most.
So you admit his characters are shit?
It's also not taking a page out of Milton, considering he wrote an epic (meaning characterisation is done differently to prose and it's more dramatic, with strokes of brush opposed to Dostoevsky like diving into the psychology of his characters) with actually great characters.

>>8486662
He's an interesting writer, but a deeply flawed one who unfortunately didn't have too much interest in his characters or style. Imagine if he took twice the time to write a book and polished it instead of publishing at such a fast rate.

>>8486689

So anyway Marc, I was reading The Toy Theater and I'm having trouble making heads or tails of it - is Wolfe confessing to having cheated on his wife (literally, or metaphorically with work)? How do you reconcile the fact that it appears like you have to be in sight of the puppets to operate them but Stromboli isn't in sight in the wagon when Lili and the narrator go to the meadow? Or is he there all along? Who do you think the narrator actually is?

>>8486908
I'm not Marc.
But I'm kinda proud that people think I'm him regularly.
I didn't get that story at all.
Wolfe has cheating in almost every major novel, Severian wasn't faithful, Horn wasn't, Silk wasn't (as a priest). There may be something to your idea that he did it irl, but he seems like too nice of a guy who loved his wife too much to do it.

>>8486908
I think the narrator is operating the puppet

>>8486921
>There may be something to your idea that he did it irl, but he seems like too nice of a guy who loved his wife too much to do it.

Yeah, I don't think he would have done something like that either, hence why I added the possibility that he might have meant it metaphorically, i.e. with his work - or in some way being regretful of having to dedicate so much of his life to work. His wife, as far as I know, was a housewife, and so I think he might have also meant it in a way as a "you should also go out into the world and do your own stuff", so that would go along with the idea that Stromboli's wife is the narrator.

>>8486935

So you think Lili and Chastity are both the narrator's puppets?

Gene Wolfe would probably say Asimov.

Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov are dated next to Philip K Dick, who feels the most 'modern' of that generation, because of his pessimism.

Should Kurt Vonnegut have been included? Sirens Of Titan, Cats Cradle, even Slaughter-House 5. He wrote a number of sci-fi novels, as much as he would hate to be regarded as a sci-fi author.

>Asimov in the lead
>PKD with so many votes
>Clarke also doing well
I don't mind any of the authors on the list really, but Wolfe and Lem are the two best

>/lit/ pushing back against /g/ with Wolfe and ignoring Lem
...
Well, I guess you have to pick one horse.

>>8487168
I've only read Solaris. I liked it a lot, but it doesn't compare to 20 Wolfe novels.
>>8486992
I don't like him one bit. He's like Dick, but for 12 year olds.

>>8487168
We're making the mother of all omelette's here, anon. Can't fret over every egg.

File: tears in rain.jpg (24KB, 306x306px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 306x306px

>>8487168
I'm debating whether to post a link on /sci/.

Should I?

>>8487271
They must love Wolfe, for sure. All those sublime religious themes will trigger their fedoras so hard.

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33KB, 256x256px

>That time PKD said Lem was a group of communist spies

>>8487271
I would never have thought that the idea of an erection could be as trite as it gets in this case. They'd just make a spambot anyway.

>>8487279
... and you've got my imagination beat again, that's more trite a post than I could have conceived of

>>8487279
>>8487271
Might as well post it in /x/ and /his/ too

>>8487287
STAY WOKE NIGGAZ

>>8487279
>All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

I literally see no problem with the votes. Asimov and PKD gaining counts is as hilarious as having Cactus Crotch or Combover on the ballot. /lit/'s been stuck in shitposting limbo for a while, so it's nice to have some productive tension to sharpen the board's identity.

I really don't plan on it, but who knows if someone else will get bored enough.

>>8487327
Lit has always been stuck in a shitpostig limbo.

>>8487335
Perhaps, but I blame the imgur post.

The incipience of this board was superb, brief as it was.

>>8487343
Katie brought redditors in hordes, sffghetto plebs from other boards and reddit, imgur may have helped too.
The thing is, it's always been full of shitposting. Now, it's just shitposting with more plebs.

>>8486992
>Vonnegut
His overall body of work would definitely be classified as SF, but the thing with Vonnegut is that I don't think he was committed in any real way to the core aspect of SF of speculating on future developments in science, technology, and so on. One descriptor I came across somewhere is that Vonnegut simply employed SF tropes.
Infinite Jest is similar to what I'm trying to describe: it does have a near-future dystopian setting and there's a bit of SF technique here and there (like Subsidized Time and the giant feral hamsters), but the book is only SF in the barest technical sense and not too many people would consider Wallace an SF author.
The clearest contrast that comes to mind at the moment would be Clarke: speculation on technological development (including specifics like space elevators and geostationary satellites) and human evolution (like in the 2001 series) was at the heart of Clarke's intentions in his work.
What I'm saying I guess is that, despite external appearances, Vonnegut's work is maybe very very soft SF, and to me he himself was about as much a SF author as Wallace was.
(I like Vonnegut btw; I've read about a dozen books of his.)

>>8487343
>>8487350
Newfag to lit, care to elucidate what you're talking about?
/his was (maybe) okay for a time but it's mostly just religious and pol posts now, /lit experienced the same thing?

>>8487350

I don't live on 4chan, who the fuck's Katie?

>>8487360
The two events and the general brought in a lot of newfags, which wouldn't be a problem in itself, but it was plebs who just polpost, make shitpost threads and meme about authors they didn't read (DFW, Pynchon). The generals used to be much like this thread, but now it's only endless /tg/ crap.
/his/ never got enough educated philosophy posters so the discussions on related subjects were always awful. The Catholics aren't thomists and just larp alongside Orthodox shitposters who jerk off on how traditional they are and the fedoras cannot into even the most basic philosophy, making it an absolute shithole.

>>8487384
>>8487360
All these newfags. Disgusting.
>>8487352
A lot of things go under the umbrella of science fiction. It hasn't been related to technology for what, 50 years?

Harlan Ellison

>>8487387
>Daily to weekly Wolfe general threads with multiple aramini posters

Those were the days

>>8487387
Philosophical and religious discussion on /his has always been garbage, true, but there was maybe a week or two after the boards inception where there was legitimate historical discussion of a variety of topics instead of:
>Why did Africa fail to develop like Europe?
>Europe is getting cucked by Kebab, it's time for another crusade
and of course the USSR threads are always retarded.
The only good shitposting there is the Finno-Hwan Hyperwar

>>8487393
I post like once a month, fuck off brah.
I only came here because I had a lot of questions about Book of the New Sun, and /his/ doesn't like talking about actual scholarly history books

>>8487403
Yeah. I honestly discovered a lot of great science fiction and fantasy. Those were the days when every recommendation was at least decent.
Miller, Leiber, Vance, Chesterton, etc.
>>8487404
They used to have a trip, No True Scottishist, he posted here for a while. He had academic tier knowledge of medieval philosophy and it was actually educational to read his posts.

>>8487404
>Finno-Hwan Hyperwar
That always sounded interesting but I never quite spotted a prolonged thread about it. Is there a meme image to fill my gap?

>>8487412
Aramini has said like 3 months ago that his second volume which will have a large new sun essay is coming out soon, not sure what's holding him up. I thought his wife got better and shit.
I actually picked up Between Light and Shadow. I liked the essay on New Sun, bit too short and asks more questions than it answered and the Fifth Head of Cerberus essay was too unfocused and I don't remember it as well. The rest is mostly obscure/not as popular short stories, so there is little point in reading the essays before the stories.

>>8483406

>almost made the cut

Nigga he's better than half the swill on your list

>>8487436
Is it at least better than Solar Labyrinth, which gets half of its shit ass backwards?

>>8487434
If you search finno-hwan or Finno-Korean Hyperwar you'll find pretty much everything you need, there are quite a few archived threads about it
>>8487436
I haven't kept up with Aramini, I'm glad its at least near being published

>>8487443
Having only read Starship troopers, I can vouch for him being a piece of shit writer.
>>8487451
The New Sun essay was certainly interesting, and casts a doubt over what I still see as the main point of the work.
I genuinely enjoy his style in some essays, but he can get lost in the forest of symbols and fail to clearly discuss the main themes.
>>8487467
One tome is already out man. But wait for the second and buy it as most of Wolfe's longer novels and hence what you've read will be found there.