>Even if someone were to prove to me that the truth lay outside

>>8478301
Faith, nigga. The reason why a thousand militant atheists will never convert a single dedicated believer. There's a lot of pain and beauty in the concept if the author is skilled.

>>8478301
That having faith in higher power is better than seeking objective truth.

He's correct, by the way.

that he's retarded

>>8478307
>better
>correct

Based on what?

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>>8478316
Based on God

>>8478316
The only thing that matters: how satisfied you are with your own life.

When you dedicate yourself fully to a religion, it removes most or all of the existential angst that's typical of our society. It works best when the religion is a fundamental part of the culture, like being a Muslim in the middle east or a Mormon in Utah.

>>8478301
Truth is that which creates meaning and he's found his meaning

Read the letter that the quote comes from. It's quite short and genuine and he talks about how religion helps deal with suffering.

The literal translation is something like "Even if someone proved to me that Christ is outside truth, and if it really were the case that the truth is outside Christ, then I would better want to stay with Christ rather than with the truth." So he wasn't making some convoluted point about how Christianity is true even if it's proven false or whatever, he was just expressing his earnest desire.

>>8478324
I can see that. I wasn't trying to chastise you for it. I couldn't live my life in sucharge a way, but I can respect someone who truly can. Most religious people that I talk to are out for blood with the subject. But then again same with the people that I talk to that are atheist too.

>>8478374
Such a way**

I need to proofread my posts before I send them.

>>8478301
He uses Christ as a device to shape his life into something he sees as worthwhile. It gives him meaning.

Finding a truth outside of Christ would not invalidate the Christ-system that shapes his life into something loving and productive, nor would the objective "correctness" offer a similar device that would render Christianity obsolete. It would not offer him purpose.

Truth is irrelevant to Dostoyevsky, but the applicable message that the truth offers him is what is relevant.

In the Myth if Sisyphus, Camus says something like "whether or not the earth orbits the sun is a matter of profound indifference" (referring to a time when we believed in geocentricism) and I think that captures the spirit of it.

A man's concerns should lie within him and not without

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I want to into faith
I've realized beliving in God is something much more complicated that it seems at first, but I cant just pick a religion like someone picks a toothbrush in wallmart you know
Will reading that russian fellow help?
Is pic related in hell?

>>8478377
No one cares. We knew what you meant.

>>8478388
You can always follow who came before you if you are unsure. Newton, Bacon, Pascal, all Christians.

Probably.

>>8478399
I dont understand the first part of your post.

Poor Freddy, thats what you get for revealing your power level i guess.

>>8478388
Nietzsches world view is true faith, Christian pandering is a mockery of faith.

>>8478404
>I can't just pick a religion you know

>>8478388
Who knows. Read the Bible, The Quran, The Judaic Tanakh, The book of mormon as ridiculous as it sounds. Get a feel for religion. Its very enriching but at the same time you will read some things that will make you want to cast religion away but don't give up on it just because a crazy man found gold tablets and only he can read them or warlord with a taste for 10 year olds told a bunch of people that they are the ones who God really loves. Just go into with an open mind and don't take everything literally.

>>8478411
?

>>8478388
>I cant just pick a religion like someone picks a toothbrush in wallmart you know
No you really can't. The idea of 'shopping around' for a religion like >>8478413 suggests is just absurd. If you just want to become educated in various religions then do as he says but if you want genuine faith you won't find it that way.

>>8478427
I really don't understand how you are not getting it.

Just do what this anon said.

>>8478413

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Think I'll just leave this here

>>8478430
>but if you want genuine faith you won't find it that way.
then how

>>8478441
>theology is enlightenment flap doodle
>commences with flap doodle

>>8478450
He means "theology" in the modernist sense, obviously. Prior to the Enlightenment, theology generally meant the practice of prayer, and the rest was called philosophy. There are only three men who are canonized theologians in Orthodoxy (which is Taleb's religion).

Also, OP, this quote from Notes from Underground might help

>I repeat to you for the hundredth time, there is only one case, one only, when man may purposely, consciously wish for himself even the harmful, the stupid, even what is stupidest of all: namely, so as to have the right to wish for himself even what is stupidest of all and not be bound by an obligation to wish for himself only what is intelligent.

>>8478430
Actually you will. You will read the book of that religion and they say you "feel a calling" to it. Every time a priest or missionary from a religion wishes to recruit someone they ask them to read their book and see if it touches them. The books are meant to be the words of God so if that particular voice of God found in that particular book speaks to you then it is your religion.

>>8478459
>He means "theology" in the modernist sense, obviously

Yeah and how is using a heuristic argument not modernistic?

>>8478446
I recommend two books: The Way of a Pilgrim, and Laurus.

>>8478461
Most of those priests or missionaries would say that the idea that there are different voices of god saying different things to followers of different religions is blasphemous.

>>8478468
All secular philosophy was consider heuristic by the Church Fathers....

>>8478475
Well I would say I'm not religious so fuck you.

>>8478301
he means he thinks he can be greater than Christ

>>8478388
You should only read the Bible obviously. Why waste your time on the Kooran?

>>8478521
Not really, if you care to read the rest of the letter and the context.

>I believe that there is nothing lovelier, deeper, more sympathetic, more rational, more manly and more perfect than the Savior;...If anyone could prove to me that Christ is outside the truth, and if the truth really did exclude Christ, I should prefer to stay with Christ and not the truth.
This was written from prison, during Dostoevsky's religious renewal.

>>8478524
oh I read that backwards

>>8478301
Well, I won't pretend to have special insight into what he himself meant by it. But Christ Himself said

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life."

and

"Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."
[Note that he is not saying that those who hear Christ's voice hear the truth, but that those who hear the truth hear Christ's voice].

Christ IS truth, not simply someone who told the truth. Human reason is fallible, faith is not.

>>8478399

pascal's views on religion from any objective observer's point of view should be disregarded as soon as anyone sees his "wager"

yeah i know its wikifaggot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

>>8478301
He is questioning the value of the will to truth.

>>8478374
I'm the anon you replied to, and I'm not actually religious. I just think it would be better if I was.

Personally, analyzing the actual composition of religious literature ruins it for me. It's very obvious to see why the authors were writing what they're writing based on the time period they existed in. If God exists, he's terribly short sighted.

>>8478301
Dostoyevsky is said to have suffered from Gastaut-Geschwind. In other words he suffered the effects of a large temporal lobe brain lesion he wasn't aware he had, which gave him both an increased sense of superstition and hypergraphia. Or, the compulsive need to write. It also would have given him temporal lobe epilepsy he wasn't aware of, which increased his shifts in moods, which is hardly surprising given the content of what he wrote.

In other words, he was experiencing feelings of religious awe and feelings everything was connected more than most other people, leading him to become enrapt with it.

But he is right that this answer to his question on why he was so religious is more depressing and unnecessary than faith.

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Because the "the truth" (a phenomenon that changes with the passing of time, that is never completely determined and is contradictory with itself) has no value in itself. What comfort is "the truth" to the dying man? What pain does the truth soothe? When man is at death's mercy, how will the truth help him back?

Western civilization's greatest folly is the dismantling of Christianity. Once you remove that which keeps the individual sane and happy, the group tight-knit and united and the nation as one, you tear a whole in the fabric of the society. The truth has no inherent value. In the wake of westerners losing faith, another ideology will take hold instead and the results will be unpredictable and probably detrimental to what was before.

>>8479400
>Western civilization's greatest folly is the dismantling of Christianity. Once you remove that which keeps the individual sane and happy, the group tight-knit and united and the nation as one, you tear a whole in the fabric of the society. The truth has no inherent value. In the wake of westerners losing faith, another ideology will take hold instead and the results will be unpredictable and probably detrimental to what was before.

This is really funny because it thinks that Christian faith is unique in this regard

>>8478581
pascal's wager is the final solution, if all else fails you can use it and hope for the best

it's not as bad as people make it out to be

>>8479403
Europe has indeed blossomed under Christianity like no other continent under a different religion has in human history. Christianity is a unique religion in many ways. There are bad religions and there are good religions. But in the absense of a religion, the bad religion will always claim victory. Intolerance always trumps over tolerance.

>>8479421
>Europe has indeed blossomed under Christianity like no other continent under a different religion has in human history

Western civilization as you understand it is one of several cultures which has not existed for over a thousand years.

>>8479421
the amount of shaky assumptions in this post is astounding

>>8479422
Doesn't that reinforce his stressing of Christianity as fundamental to Western civilization?

>>8479449
>Doesn't that reinforce his stressing of Christianity as fundamental to Western civilization?
no

>>8479417
Exactly! Praise be to Allah :^)

>>8478388
Read Kierkegaard. Pretty much all of his work has some aspect of Christianity and Faith. Fear and Trembling, Works of Love, Practice in Christianity, Christian Discourses, and his various Upbuilding Discourses. I'd recommend Practice in Christianity.

Anyone who says religion is useless have never stared into the eyes of sick old people who are so bitter and depressed about their coming end that they can barely manage to breath.

>>8478380

If all humans lived like this we wouldn't have the device we are using to talk now.

>>8480209
Not that guy, but why do you think this? Why is it not possible for computer and internet to exist with everyone adapting that Anon's philosophy?

>>8480209
That isn't true.
Many early scientific discoveries were made by Catholics and many scientists in even our current era are made by people of one religious affiliation or another.
Scientific advancement happens because people are driven by discovery and are genuinely fulfilled by scientific and technological pursuits.
I don't see the conflict between religious affiliation and technology.

>>8480434
The main reason which enabled the boom of knowledge were universities.

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>>8478388
Try the Bhagavad Gita. Also read the Bible, mainly the New Testament gospels though (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) to get started.

>>8479428
aSSALAAM ALAIKUM BROTHER

>>8480166
Who said it's useless? You sound retarded anon.

>>8478324
>>8478331
So he doesn't really believe in Christianity, but just pretends to because he's bored ?

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>>8478301
It's better to live and believe in goodness rather than science because it can unleash horrible thoughts and acts from us.

If everything were to be proven by science and reason then killing raping etc would not be wrong because we're not going to suffer the concequence.

If we do not limit ourselves we become more animal than human. Driven by instinct rather than reason.

>>8478301
It really is a shame he never dealt with Stirners work because that quote seems like something that would be wholly in line with a religious egoist.

>>8481201
>If we do not limit ourselves we become more animal than human. Driven by instinct rather than reason.

With that quote alone I can tell youve never read Dostoevsky

>>8479421
which christianity?

>>8481282
The second half of a man's life is made up of nothing but the habits he has acquired during the first half.

That he loves the truth because it's Christ, not Christ because he's the truth.

Faith > Security

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>>8478388
You don't pick up faith, It picks you up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMfP5LcJYMo

>>8480692
truth doesn't exist outside of meaning

>>8478301
He is a truly Nietzschean Christian.

>>8481505
Now can you try writing a post that has meaning ?

>>8481506
If anything Nietzsche is a Dosteyevskian atheist.

>>8481509
i'm not bullshitting you with some hippie pseud philosophy, thats the truth according to dosto

>>8481519
That doesn't mean it makes any sense.

>>8478388
You don't get into faith just by wanting to; you have to either be taught to believe since birth or else you experience a moment of divine revelation. Anything else is dishonest.

>>8481540
>using reason for existential questions
i take it you haven't read any of his work have you

>>8481546
I've read the Brothers Karamazov

>>8481551
did you understand the claims of the grand inquisitor?

>>8481555
I think so, but it's been a while since I've read it so I don't really remember any of it.

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>>8479417

>>8481559
you definitely need to understand the claims made there, along with those in Crime and Punishment and Demons to really understand Dosto's theology

>>8481565
Well I haven't read those other two, but I'm about to start Notes from Underground as soon as I finish Pale Fire.

>>8481570
it's definitely worth reading, so have fun with it

>>8481573
That's what everyone says. I don't know anything about it, but I've had the book recommended to me way too many times and way too strongly to put it off any longer.