wtf I hate myself now >tfw you actually have a mickey mouse

>>8458099
think of it as a chance to change for the better anon.

embrace meaning and authenticity. learn from wyatt-kun. avoid becoming ludy.

>>8458125
But Wyatt didn't embrace meaning and authenticity. Or he did, but by the end he was pretty resigned to just living out the rest of his days without trying to find what doesn't exist, right? He chooses love rather than authenticity or inauthenticity.

>>8458251
i wont go as far to say wyatt had a happy ending, but it was by far more optimistic than anyone else in the book (besides arguably stanley). his final chapter deliberately contrasted him with Ludy and the implication was there's a chance, however small, that Wyatt finds some sort of fulfillment against all odd. by not futilely chasing what doesn't exist wyatt frees himself to maybe embrace a happier existence.

according to correspondance, gaddis had excised a section where wyatt actually finds his daughter stating it was "too happy" of an ending, but it shows how the possibility exists.

>>8458099
just don't call the cops on your sadist dentist and you'll be alright anon

>>8458292
What daughter? I don't remember him ever having kids. Or was the implication that he knocked up one of those girls he boned in Spain?

>>8458368
I think so.

Was Anselm redeemed or not?

>>8458368
>Or was the implication that he knocked up one of those girls he boned in Spain?
yep.

>802.44] Pastora: Sp. "shepherdess." Originally, Gaddis intended Wyatt to have a daughter by Pastora, and in the illegitimate daughter to be "at last redeemed through love" (Gaddis's notes, quoted in Koenig's "'Splinters of the Yew Tree,'" 36). Although there are hints about a child later (and see 897.16 ff. and 900.3-6), Gaddis decided that such a redemption would be dishonest and facile.

http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognitions/33anno2.shtml

>>8458427
He made the right call. It would've definitely cheapened the ending.

just don't be a dipshit and you'll be fine

>>8458292
>far more optimistic than anyone else in the book (besides arguably stanley
Wow, he dIED, fucking optimistic as heck

Also, Wyatt is fucking insane by the end, not "authentic". He embraces a Faustian, parodically Satanic form of Christianity, an inversion of Christianity that hints, chiasmatically, at the Black Mass jokingly alluded to in the beginning of the story. His philosophy is that of sinning and immersing oneself in materiality precisely so one can redeem oneself out of it, IIRC --- a heresy Gaddis no doubt knew was a popular historical heresy of certain strange, licentious Christian cults.

Wyatt = unredeemed Faust, the ultimate symbol of jaded modern man set free from his moorings, a murderer, adulterer (although so's his wife, so there's that), someone who runs away from his wife and all the people he knows to potter around in Spain.

He doesn't even have a name by the end, that's how alienated he is from everyone and everything.

Overall, though, the book is not so pessimistic as I make it sound, but rather a dark comedy and a venting of bile against the modern world (or as it was in Gaddis's time). This unredemption of Wyatt furthers the bitter humor of it, as opposed to the sentimentality of >>8458427 , which (he judged correctly) probably would have been too sappy and dishonest to work.

It's a great fucking work, honestly, I'm very passionate about it and upset that it's not and maybe never will be recognized as a classic of American literature the same way, say, Gravity's Rainbow (which takes a lot from it in prose style, tone, dark humor, allusiveness) already is.

I also don't mean to sound so angry at you, BTW, this is just how I usually sound on 4chan.

>>8458524
He does have a name at the end. After leaving mr. "Yak"/Sinisterra he just keeps the Stephan name from his fake passport.

>>8458524
idk i just had a more optimistic view of it than you

maybe i didnt make it clear but i fully acknowledge it's a very pessimistic ending, but it's the possibility of something optimistic that i think gives it more power.

indeed, regarding

>He doesn't even have a name by the end, that's how alienated he is from everyone and everything.

he loses his name but he gets a new one, one that is essentially what this mother originally intended to name him. to me that's a sign that there is, in spite of everything, hope for "redemption" in a sense. again it's not redemption - we don't actually knwo what happens to wyatt after the monastery, but we can possibly envision a future where he does get a chance at it. i think that's more powerful than unrelenting condemnation, nor does it, i think, take away anything from the takedown of modern life.

i loved the book too senpai.

>Wow, he dIED, fucking optimistic as heck

idk it's a difficult reading and i can see multiple interpretations. but i think to fixate on the physical death alone is too limited.

>>8458524
I always interpreted Wyatt as something more ascetic than corrupted. He's definitely unredeemed, as is everyone, but his retirement from the world isn't alienation so much as it is solitude. He's trying to scrape the canvas clean and deny the awful reflexivity of the world. Ironically the best way to conquer the self is to isolate it and trap it within in order to stifle it

>>8458569
>>8458580
I remembered the Stephan (which IIRC is transformed into Stephen by the end), but didn't think of it in the way you guys thought of it. Where does it say his mother originally intended to name him that? I don't remember it, honestly. You may very well be right, honestly, and if not that there's always a margin of interpretation for every reader, I can't take away whatever impression Gaddis gave to you, now can I?

Stanley's death (do spoilers even work anymore on /lit/?) I initially was very moved by but thinking critically on it I think it's more dark humor, especially the point about how his work is seldom spoken of, although when it is, it's spoken of with high regard (which is pretty prophetic of the novel itself, obviously). Stanley's a great, innocent, naive person and what happens to him? He gets crushed by the modern world and no one really even cares about him after it, although he does have his own private, quiet redemption with himself that the reader can privately share in too, I suppose. The personal redemption of the artist, where the artist is battling with and proving everything to only themselves, if that's not too sappy and sentimental-sounding.

>>8458592
Sounds very Gaddisian, good post.

>>8458524
Wait, Wyatt died? I don't remember this.

>>8458661
Stanley not watt

>>8458695
Oh, right.

File: IMG_20160831_161315.jpg (2MB, 3024x4032px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3024x4032px

Nothing makes me want to read a book more than reading/listening to other people discussing it and having no fucking idea what they're talking about desu

I just pulled it out of a box last night too

>>8458985
Bookmark this website:
http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognitions/I1anno1.shtml

>>8459009
That's cool thanks anon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkT1QNA5Iwc&ab_channel=Totiusquotius

This was posted in another Gaddis thread, but more people should see it. It's Sheri Martinelli, who inspired Esme, talking about some of the work she did with Ezra Pound. Sometimes Esme parses out words very strangely, but it's Gaddis trying to match Sheri's speech patterns. She sounds pretty adorable.

Also the guy in the white sweater is Steven Moore, known for this website >>8459009

>>8459080
Another bit of trivia involving her:

That letter Esme left Wyatt before her suicide attempt was an actual letter Gaddis got from Sheri Martinelli (though presumably under less dramatic circumstances).

>>8459080
what the fuck am i watching?

is this is what reading the recognitions is like?

>>8458425
Anselm was the dude that impregnated the 6 year old right?