How do you feel about political correctness being enforced o

>>8419898
science fiction??
science shitshion :DDD

if the video isn't released i don't think there's much here to talk about, regardless of how many times someone says he was just 'speaking out' and the panel is 'enforcing' such and such

>>8419898
How can anyone perceive this shit as being anything but Stalinist? I literally can't imagine anyone being okay with this.

>>8419963
perhaps his behaviour was unacceptable

>>8419965
Maybe in this case, but there are countless cases of people being similarly chastised for expressing perfectly innocuous opinions that happen to be conservative, or for jokes.

Does anyone have that 2~ paragraph spiel about "liberal tolerance" being totalitarian?

It was copypasta for a while a couple years back and I can never find it. It was so fucking succinct.

It made a distinction between laissez-faire and prescriptive tolerance, and said something like
>Understood thus, liberal tolerance must become intolerant, by means of speech codes, quotas, norms, etc.

>enforced

How? Is this a law now?

Pretty sure people are entitled to their opinions, even if they are pushing PCness. You could, you know, just ignore them.

>worldcon

Private organizations can do whatever they want. Stop going to worldcon if it bothers you.

>social media

Stop using social media.

>Why can't you even talk about this?

You can. But you seem to be under the mistaken impression that no one is allowed to disagree with you. If you're going to throw a fit every time someone exercises their respective right to free speech, then do yourself a favor and stay off the Internet, because you would clearly rather live in a box.

>>8419991
>Private organizations can do whatever they want. Stop going to worldcon if it bothers you.
This is such defeatist attitude. Yes, they have the legal right to do what they want, but the enlightenment concept of free speech means more than just being safe from government persecution. If you're unable to articulate your views in any public forum because a corporation deems it problematic, then you functionally have no free speech.

>>8419991
Dissagreement isn't kicking your out for expressing the wrong view your retard. Dissagreement involves counterarguments.

>>8419991
Stalinist faggotry

>>8420005
>If you're unable to articulate your views in any public forum because a corporation deems it problematic, then you functionally have no free speech.

"Public forum"? If it's privately owned, there's nothing public about it. I mean, the doors may be open to the public, but the owner(s) can expel you for whatever arbitrary reason they see fit. Go espouse your views on public, tax-funded premises instead.

You're not entitled to trespass on someone else's property and force your views on them. If you parade onto my lawn with a gang of picketers all shouting neo-Nazi / Tumblr / whatever slogans, I'm going to remove all of you by force if necessary, and that's my legal prerogative. Fuck you.

>>8420005
>i work for a company that doesn't know what it's doing
>HEY YOU CAN'T FIRE ME IT'S FREE SPEECH

>>8420017
The distinction between a public and a private forum is blurred by the ubiquity of certain social media platforms, you fucking lefty lapdog. And regardless of whether or not a private institution has the legal right to silence certain people, we as potential costumers of those private institutions also have the right to give them shit for it without people like you invoking their free speech.

>>8420025
You're a fucking retard. No one is saying that the corporations don't have a legal right to fire someone for expressing views they don't like. What we're saying is that, despite them having that legal right, they deserve shit for invoking it so cavalierly.

>>8420031
>The distinction between a public and a private forum is blurred by the ubiquity of certain social media platforms

Stop using fucking social media. I don't use social media, unless lurking 4chan counts. I've had to deal with Facebook and message boards shoving PCness down my throat in the past. I learned my lesson and moved on.

>lefty lapdog
>left

lol
Pigeon-holing everything into your black-and-white spectrum must involve some pretty complex mental gymnastics. Are you really so delusional?

>we as potential costumers of those private institutions also have the right to give them shit for it without people like you invoking their free speech

You're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to force yourself onto anyone's property and scream your opinion at them when they have clearly instructed you to leave.

Don't be a special snowflake. The law applies to you just as well as everybody else. No, you don't get to violate my property. You can say whatever you want to me on 4chan and I'll humor your retarded e-pinions until I get tired and move on, but don't ever think to show up on my property with this nonsense.

>>8419898
>Enforced
That is not true at all

Their group didn't like what he said (and there were probably other unmentioned reasons for not inviting him), so he didn't get an invite to their 'club'. There is nothing that was enforced at all, you must be quite over-sentive to make a thread about this non topic.

>rebelling against authoritarian dominance of social justice types that control the scene

Do you even process this shit before you spout it? You are being a social justice type

>Why does objecting to the policing of these concerns immediately make one a far right/bigot

It doesn't. It just makes you an insecure and oversensitive person latches onto shite such as this because you are constantly looking for something to be offended by. You lack the basic self awareness to even see your hypocrisy

>Why can't you even talk about this

You can and you have. Lots alt-right mouth breathers whine about this stuff constantly

>>8419963
>How can anyone perceive this shit as being anything but Stalinist? I literally can't imagine anyone being okay with this.

Wow. Millennials are so coddled that they think social media garbage such as this is 'Stalinist'
You must live a comfortable life

>>8419936
more like science shitshow desu

>>8420051
>Stop using fucking social media.
That's not good enough. I'm not a big facebook or twitter user, but for many people their entire social lives are organized around the use of these platforms. Being kicked off for expressing the wrong opinion is a modern form of being unpersoned. For a select few even their livelihoods are dependent on social media.

>You're not entitled to force yourself onto anyone's property and scream your opinion at them when they have clearly instructed you to leave.

You're being disgustingly disingenuous with this example. No one is against disruptive people being asked to leave, what we're against is perfectly reasonable people expressing perfectly reasonable views being kicked out for not towing a particular political line. And a benefit of our first amendment is that we're perfectly entitled to publicly berate corporations who do this.

>>8419965

Yes, he expressed badthought and must be punished appropriately.

>>8419991
>Private organizations can do whatever they want
And we're allowed to criticize them for it. This is always the dumbest response to these sort of occurrences.

>>8420078
>I'm not a big facebook or twitter user, but for many people their entire social lives are organized around the use of these platforms. Being kicked off for expressing the wrong opinion is a modern form of being unpersoned. For a select few even their livelihoods are dependent on social media.

Nothing in that paragraph justifies you or anyone else forcing privately owned Web sites to bend to your will.

"Basing your livelihood" on social media? I provide interpretive services, and I have no career-ended need for social media services.

If it's that important to you, there are a multitude of ways to keep clients informed about your services, such as a Web site that you own and operate. You could even use Twitter or another blogging service provided by a third party. I imagine most have policies that are neutral toward the type of content you publish, provided it doesn't violate copyright laws or promote terrorism.

Oh, right. You think the leftist boogeyman is out to get you, and has its claws in every form of media. Well, sucks to be you.

>what we're against is perfectly reasonable people expressing perfectly reasonable views being kicked out for not towing a particular political line

>i.e. "I want to force my views on other people against their will. To hell with their rights!"

Throwing up the same tautological nonsense over and over again isn't going to make your demands any less unreasonable.

I imagine you walking away from this thread and finding some retarded reason to convince yourself that I and the rest of society has once again left you disenfranchised. So is the endless cycle of victimology to which fragile minds will always succumb.

>>8420105
This level of callous corporatism is as offensive to me as the most obscene pornography imaginable, but I wouldn't ban it on the grounds that the only thing that really justifies limiting speech in a corporate setting is promoting hatred of certain people. I don't see why Nobel Prize winner Tim Hunt making an awkward joke in a private lunch conference justifies him being forced to resign from his professorship. And I think i'm perfectly justified in exercising my legal rights by chastising the group that exercised its legal right to fire him.

>If it's that important to you, there are a multitude of ways to keep clients informed about your services
This is retarded and you know it. Private platforms don't have a modicum of the reach facebook does. Again, its ubiquity and reach make it a unique case.

>i.e. "I want to force my views on other people against their will. To hell with their rights!"
No one is forcing anything, you fucking doormat. Telling corporations to not silence people they happen to disagree with is distinct from telling them that they must also then support those opinions. The concept of free expression only really needs to be invoked for speech people happen to disagree with.

>So is the endless cycle of victimology to which fragile minds will always succumb.

The modern Left's social power comes from exploiting victimhood. Dave Truesdale was kicked out precisely due to the victim mentality you're decrying. Could you possibly be less self-aware?

He was probably being a gross person that was making people uncomfortable. Cry about it, morons.

What do you guys think of Vox Day?

>>8420179
>gross person that was making people uncomfortable

That doesn't sound immature at all

>>8420186
Oh I'm sorry, 4chan types think creepshaming is bigotry somehow.

>>8420185
Kind of a wanker desu

Is the same thing happening in literature or is this just happening to mass-market toss (SFF)?

>>8420185
He's one of William Lind's buttbuddies, if you don't get the significance of that find an archive for /k/'s let's read of Victoria.

I had an idea for a KND fic playing off the whole "retroculture" thing, but I was too late.

I wanna know what really said.

Because if he complained about not being able to say nigger out loud I'm not going to be very impressed, however, if he complained about there being a concerned effort by publishers to only publish books that conform to some kind of narrative or whatever, I'd support him.

>>8420234
Oh jesus. If he's 1/3 as spergy as Lind then they may have been justified.

I really hate science fiction and internet alternative conservatism but I also hate any implication that the moral standards of a group of people can be more important than the moral standards of an individual simply because there are more of them.

>hate political correctness
>hate people who whine about it, too
goddamnit I love 4chan

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>>8420240
He's thoroughly on board with Lind when it comes to race, sex, and "cultural Marxism," and he's also pretty damn big on pic related.

Still better than the rest of the alt-right, even if they are his secret club.

>>8420238
I think this too but I can't think of a rational reason why. Words should be just words. In a perfect society there should be no ramifications to vibrating your vocal chords whatever sounds come out.

>>8420259
If words were powerless what would be the point of literature?

>>8420257
>Still better than the rest of the alt-right

I like RamZPaul because he seems like he's just a contrarian who sees that the left is becoming the new dominant culture and so opposes it because of that. He was a libertarian before libertarianism became more accepted.

>>8420266
also he's the only one of them who's genuinely funny

>>8420266
>he's just a contrarian who sees that the left is becoming the new dominant culture and so opposes it because of that.
That's literally like 80% of the alt right, particularly people like Milo, who doesn't seem to have any view other than wanting the ability to say whatever he wants.

>>8420185
A barbarian who I wouldn't feel safe letting any woman or girl near.

>>8420275
Nah, as much as I dislike Gavin McInnes's views, the guy is objectively hilarious.

>>8420276
>wanting the ability to say whatever he wants.

What's wrong with that?

>>8420264
To cause fleeting feelings and images in the mind which for whatever reason entertain us. Words aren't powerless, they have the ability to influence peoples thoughts and emotions but there's no reason to be afraid of certain words.

>>8420286
Nothing. All i'm saying is that his political views aren't consistent, and when they are they're only consistent in their favor of cultural libertarianism. He's more of a performer than any sort of political thinker.

>>8420283
Haven't listened to any of his stuff.

>>8419898

>/lit/ doesn't recognize an obscure thing nobody's ever heard of pulling a transparent publicity stunt

I thought we were all smart here?

>>8420276
I'm pretty sure even a lot of people IN the alt-right admit this. I've heard more than one of them talk about accepting the more edgy and artistic types who are just doing it to be subversive. They go on to mention that these people function as "useful idiots" as if a few people having Hitler avatars will instate world fascism.

>>8420283
oh he's that guy from therebel yeah he's good, and I think he's definitely in the camp that's doing it just to do something

>>8420276
I don't really consider Milo to be alt-right, while hardly liberal he's not quite on the "destroy the Enlightenment" bandwagon; his explanation of the alt-right basically boiled down to saying they're spouting ultra-right views as a joke on their somewhat-right views. Which is accurate for a large chunk of them, mind, but I'm pretty sure Roosh for one actually does want a Taliban-lite.

They will turn on him sooner or later, Matt Forney's recent sperging over feminine dicks is just the beginning.

>>8420310
The /pol/ people swamping other boards with their shit-threads are not smart.

What books and authors is he even referring to?

I haven't read a modern science fiction book in ten years.

It's all generic and cliche garbage that is written with the goal of becoming a movie.

If you've read Potter, Narnia, Starwars novels, and LotR, then you've essentially read all new scifi books, cause all they do is copy those titles.

I think the pendulums already swinging back. I used to be all for "say what you want" but every time I see someone bitch about "political correctness" I get the urge to disagree with them

Alt-right people are literally morons. Some dink hosted an event on my campus titled "An Encroachment on Liberty." Know what it was about? Trans people using public restrooms. What the fuck liberty is being encroached by that? Some hairy dude with a vagina might be pissing in the stall next to you? Cripes.

>>8420356
You should read Lem, PKD, Rajaniemi, your ignorance is showing

>>8420356
I don't know I think William Gibson's newer stuff is still good.

>>8420360
I'd much rather have trannies in males stalls than unisex bathrooms tbqh.

>>8420360
>Alt-right people are literally morons. Some dink hosted an event on my campus titled "An Encroachment on Liberty." Know what it was about? Trans people using public restrooms. What the fuck liberty is being encroached by that? Some hairy dude with a vagina might be pissing in the stall next to you? Cripes.

You ever consider that forcing a business to create such bathrooms might be encroachment on liberty?

>>8420362

>ignorance is showing

Back to plebbit with you

>>8420362
>Lem, PKD
>modern

Rajaniemi is the only one I'll give you.

>>8420363
Eh, he's hit or miss kind of like Neal Stephenson. Zero History was really good but the books before it were pretty forgettable.

>>8420372

Or, and this is just me spitballing here, why don't you just let people piss in the bathrooms they feel comfortable pissing in? Why does that make you so upset that you even have to make it a thing?

>>8420372
No because individual liberty is the only liberty that matters, ergo a tranny's right to piss wherever they want supersedes the Christian morality (held by billions) held by a business (consisting of at least dozens)

>>8420380
Furthermore no one has the right to CURB a liberty. It's like complaining you don't have the right to beat people up randomly.

>>8420201
This post reeks of
>I just came on /lit/ from [reddit/tumblr/gamerghazi/etc] because my 4chan friends told me it was the "GOOD" board

>>8420377
It wouldn't be a problem if being a tranny wasn't just a subjective "i feel like a woman so therefore i'm a woman." The North Carolina law, for example, didn't bar trannies from using the bathroom of their chosen gender, all it required was for them to go to the DMV and go through the process of officially changing the gender on their birth certificate.

>>8420383
Try again dingaling, I've been using 4chan for over a decade.

>>8420389
>It wouldn't be a problem if being a tranny wasn't just a subjective "i feel like a woman so therefore i'm a woman."

Explain to me how this is an issue whatsoever. Protip: it's still illegal to sexually harass people.

>>8420395
Pervs and creeps who aren't transgender "identifying" as women in order to use a woman's bathroom to perv out.

>>8420395
>it's still illegal to sexually harass people.

It really isn't. Telling random straight, white men that they are the oppressors of the world and should check their privilege is considered normal these days and yet it constitutes both racism and sexism.

>>8420383
Not everywhere on the website is a bitter virgin hugbox like /v/ or /pol/

>>8420398
So then they're committing a crime. What does that have to do with trans people? Your entire argument is that people who aren't actually trans might be gross and creepy, ergo, we shouldn't let trans people use appropriate bathrooms. How does that make any sense?

>>8420400
>Telling random straight, white men that they are the oppressors of the world and should check their privilege

Most people would laugh at you if you did that. Do you people even know normal, well-adjusted adults in the real world?

>>8420405
>Most people would laugh at you if you did that

You obviously haven't been to a university in the U.S these days.

>>8420392
>uses "4chan types" and "creepshaming"
>I've been using 4chan for over a decade.

At this point, it doesn't matter how long you've been here. You probably have as much to do with this website as moot does.

>>8420401
>>8420383

>>8420404
No, my entire argument is that there should be a process to officially change ones gender to avoid a possible loophole that men could exploit in order to use women's facilities.

>>8420412
The only people who seem to think there are men just biting at the chain to put on a dress and peep under stalls in the women's room are folks like you trying to push these nonsense pointless laws. If anyone if the pervert, it's you, things like this don't even cross normal peoples' minds.

Making life harder for a small group of people people because a different group of people are acting hypothetically shitty doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever.

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>>8420266
>he likes RamZPaul

You manipulable, azoic, mouthbreather. I bet you beat off to Stefan Molyneux too.

>He was a libertarian before libertarianism became more accepted.

Jesus fucking Christ.

>>8420412
>there should be a process to officially change ones gender
I disagree. There should be some way to identify a trans person. Personally, I want to stick to natural females.

>>8420421
Don't worry there's a misunderstanding, I don't AGREE with him, I'm a marxist, I just think he's kind of funny.

>>8420421
>I only read the parts I wanted to be angry at!

>>8420417
First of all, there already have been cases of people exploiting the lax rules regarding the gender separation of bathrooms in order to creep on women. This isn't hypothetical. Second, the point of laws is to find suitable ways to deal with abhorrent cases. All in all, murder is an absurdly rare occurrence in everyday life. We still write laws that criminalize it and keep felons from accessing weapons that'll make it easier to commit. We don't refuse to write those laws on the basis that the crime is rare, and therefore ignorable. And third, asking someone to go the DMV once isn't making their life harder. That's fucking ridiculous.

>>8420405
>>8420409

They don't come right out and say it but it's strongly implied. I took a intro to philosophy class and female students were allowed more time in class than male students to correct a "gender imbalance" in the philosophy department.

Our grades depended on that participation, 5% is 5%. Funny thing though, few girls put up their hand anyway so it made no difference.

>>8420421

the irony of this post and most of this thread is delicious

>>8420432
How can people not understand this sort of thing is a passing fad?

>>8420168
You're a bitch and Jeff wouldn't like you

>>8420435
>How can people not understand this sort of thing is a passing fad?

> Brainwashing is probably a passing fad

Sure let's roll the dice

>>8420432
Some old hippies virtue signaling is not the end of the world.

>>8420431
>there already have been cases of people exploiting the lax rules regarding the gender separation of bathrooms in order to creep on women

So they're criminals. I don't see any trans people doing anything wrong here that justifies making life more difficult for them.

>murder is an absurdly rare occurrence in everyday life. We still write laws that criminalize it

So we're in agreement that you should criminalize things directly, e.g. implementing stricter sexual abuse laws.

>asking someone to go the DMV once isn't making their life harder

In Alabama after they implemented voter registration laws, they closed DMVs in like half the counties in the states (majority black counties, by the way). Plus getting your gender marker changed costs money and many states require you to have gotten bottom surgery, which is fucking expensive by the way, if they allow it at all.

>>8420435
Do you live in a cave?

It's not a passing fad at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC-Cqkq6zWc

>>8420438
One has to be pretty god damn dumb to be brainwashed by this shit. That's good too. Dumb people should be brainwashed. As a society our ultimate goal is to exist and whatever makes that easiest is naturally what we tend towards. It doesn't stop you personally from being an entirely free individual.

>>8420444
BLM is the definition of a fad. There were plenty of black supremacists and afrocentrists in the past, they died out and you laugh at people like Farrakhan now.

>>8420455
>There were plenty of black supremacists and afrocentrists in the past

Not being admitted to one of the top universities in the world.

It's easy to laugh at Farrakhan because he runs a crackpot cult, but it should be more disturbing that this is happening at universities that's supposed to educate the next generation of leaders.

>>8420447
Bad argument desu

>>8420463
It what sense? I don't really have any strong convictions and I use anonymous websites as a way to disprove/addapt ideas that pop into my head as sounding good so please elaborate

What should bother you more is the political correctness in classrooms across the western world, over half your kid's school books will be by women and non Europeans

>>8419898
>"a review committee... has determined that, so far, this history book is not making enough of an effort to include the contributions of women and minority groups. Unless some effort is undertaken to correct this situation, this book will not be approved for purchase by public school systems in absolutely vast quantities."
I just think of this

>>8420443
>So they're criminals. I don't see any trans people doing anything wrong here that justifies making life more difficult for them.
Laws pertaining to public security by definition make lives more difficult. Whether they be speed limits, jaywalking laws, laws regarding loitering and soliciting. This isn't a good enough excuse to refuse to enact them.

>So we're in agreement that you should criminalize things directly, e.g. implementing stricter sexual abuse laws.
We criminalize things indirectly all the time. That's the entire premise of gun control.

>getting your gender marker changed costs money and many states require you to have gotten bottom surgery,
So people who haven't gone through gender reassignment surgery should be able to use the bathroom of their adopted gender?

>>8420466

Over half the people in the world are women and non Europeans so this makes sense.

What did he do?

>>8420469
>So people who haven't gone through gender reassignment surgery should be able to use the bathroom of their adopted gender?
Yeah, no shit. You want that to be a requirement? Hook me up with $20,000 and we can talk.

>>8420465
I do this to. I think 4chan is a great platform for jumping into debates and arguing from all sides. Its much better than structured debates where your supposed to use formal arguments to argue a point. I can just jump into an argument and BE a fascist, a communist, a pederast, a religious fundamentalist even though I find those beliefs contradict my own I can argue with zeal and learn so much

>>8420470
Yeah, and over half of the books written by women and non Europeans that are tought in schools are about women's suffrage and oppression by da white man

>>8420478
Those are important topics.

>>8420475
I believe in socialized medicine, so you'll get no qualms from me there.

>>8420466
Yeah I don't really have a problem with this. I think historical revisionism is dangerous though and we should watch out for that, but the idea that the Egyptians, the Celts, Beethoven, etc were black is an incredibly fringe belief in academia at the moment and is only popular among students but is dangerous never the less.

>>8420480
What about trans guys? Do they need to get a phalloplasty before you'll be comfortable with them using the men's room? Also, why does it even matter what genitalia someone has? I use the women's room because I'd rather not get harassed/assaulted/raped in the men's room, and I haven't gotten the ol' snipperoo yet.

what did he even do to get this happen

>>8420478
There's no reason to feel bad about it as a white male but those are still major events that should be discussed. Not in the "look what you did feel bad" sense which is unfortunately popular (for the time being) but in a "look how far we've come" sense

>>8420486
>There's no reason to feel bad about it as a white male

And yet the entire culture these days is designed to do exactly that. Make white males bear the collective sin of their forefathers.

>>8420490
You should only feel guilty if you refuse to acknowledge that past and help out people who have been historically disenfranchised. Nobody is blaming you, specifically, for slavery, but you still live in a country that was built on the back of slave labor and you still benefit from that institution having existed. You aren't bad for that, but if you aren't someone with a doodoo soul, you could try to help out the less fortunate and make things better moving forward.

>>8420482
>I use the women's room because I'd rather not get harassed/assaulted/raped in the men's room,
Wasn't your entire argument predicated on the notion that we should treat crimes as they occur rather than legislating in order to prevent the possibility of a crime occurring? If you get raped in a man's bathroom then that's a reportable crime. By your standards we should treat that as a crime rather than creating discomfort for everyone else by legislating for its possibility.

>Do they need to get a phalloplasty before you'll be comfortable with them using the men's room?

No. It's easier to become a man than it is to become a woman.

>>8420467
What would be wrong with that if it doesn't? In times past the accomplishments of women and minorities were downplayed, no one's going to talk about Marie Curie and George Washington Carver INSTEAD of Einstein and Edison or make up stories about how it was really Einsteins black female slave that discovered the theory of relativity, that's just paranoia.

>>8420486
>>8420481
Again, the curriculum is intended to make the kids lean towards this "progressive" disposition, which shouldn't be in schools.
>look how far we have come
This is part of the progressive political movement, the racial guilt which is so regrettable won't stop being instilled unless these topics are covered from a purely historical point of view.

>>8420493
>but if you aren't someone with a doodoo soul
It's funny how your can tell who's a woman just by how they write

>>8420490
it's mostly just a control mechanism (guilt) to make white people abandon their ingroup preference. not a bad thing, but i don't think it should be only directed towards white

>>8420493
The past is manipulated for political purposes all the time. Disenfranchised indentured servants who were white are ignored; the myth of Native American smallpox blankets is propagated in order to advance the victimhood narrative while no one knows that we had a Native American Vice President 100 years ago and that most of our Founding Fathers had far greater respect for the Indians than they had for even non-anglo Europeans. The past is invented. You can't base your moral life around making up for it.

>>8420483
Nobody knows because they won't release the video. Since you can only take their word for it, I suggest you immediately pick whichever side you feel a knee-jerk reaction towards and pretend that their story is gospel.

>>8420493
"Built on the back of slave labor" is a bit of an overstatement and you shouldn't really give credit to a certain group of people for doing something no matter the circumstances, it's the same as saying "look at all the good white people did", all history should be in terms of what HUMANS did.

>>8420409
university culture is not majority dumbass

>>8420493
>Nobody is blaming you, specifically

Yes they are if they actually hate me for things I had no control over happening several generations ago.

>>8420494
Saying "we should let trans people use appropriate bathrooms so they don't get harassed or assaulted" isn't equivalent to "we shouldn't let trans people use appropriate bathrooms because other people who are not trans might harass or assault people," and I'll give you one chance to guess why. I have the right to act in my own self interest as an individual. And aside from that, trans people are an awful lot more likely to get harassed or assaulted than they are to harass or assault someone, so if we're speaking from your logic of preventing crimes, we should allow trans people to use appropriate bathrooms because that reduces crime overall.

>>8420510
Considering how often lefty types love shutting out people who wrongthink or don't march in their lockstep, he probably did just bring up the points about totalitarian PC freaks, and naturally the lefties had him thrown out because no one can disagree with their dogma.

>>8420496
I don't see how it plays into racial guilt if it's mentioned alongside things like "we don't shit in the streets anymore" or "we don't treat illness by stabbing people and letting them bleed out anymore"

>>8420517
I'll blame you, specifically, for being whiny and willfully ignorant. If you think people being mean to you is a suitable excuse to not acknowledge historical atrocities then you're part of the problem.

>>8420519
Yes, that's exactly right. The group I disagree with is obviously wrong and my gut feeling confirms my prior opinions. You're very good at following advice.

>>8420493
>Nobody is blaming you, specifically, for slavery, but you still live in a country that was built on the back of slave labor and you still benefit from that institution having existed.
The latter part of that sentence is essentially blaming me.

>>8420520
That's what progressivism is about, lad. If you've seen it mentioned alongside these things it's because the curriculum is designed to make conflict seem barbaric or primitive. It's seems like it's worked on you

>>8420528
no it's not.

>>8420523
>acknowledge historical atrocities

Oh I acknowledge that they happened, but I'm not going listen to people blame me for them.

It's literally like blaming the Jews for the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ; something that was used as an excuse for massive amounts of progroms against them in history.

>>8420524
https://www.thefire.org/

Go on and take a short look at how many "tolerant leftists" enjoy banning anyone who doesn't think like them. Bonus points for those who literally state that differing opinions are a form of violence.

Where exactly are the mountains of conservative media outlets and universities doing the same? Other than the joke fox news, there's hardly anything. Taking a centrist attitude and ignoring the left's bullshit is stupid of you.

>>8420528
Okay, imagine this: let's say someone, like a family member or best friend, murders someone and steals a bunch of money, and then gives you the money. You had no knowledge of what happened or where the money came from and you were not involved in this whatsoever. It is not your fault that someone got robbed and murdered.

Now imagine that the murdered person's family member somehow gets in touch with you and shows you proof that the money was stolen from their loved one and wants, maybe not even all of it, but some of it back. Now you're aware of what happened. It still isn't your fault that it did happen, but do you think it would be appropriate to say "well it's not my fault it happened so tough shit"? At this point it is your fault for being a trash person. This is the point at which you cross that threshold from being incidentally involved to actively making things worse for those people.

>>8420360
I don't want to pissing in front of mentally disturbed """"women""""" in the men's bathroom.

Now they're violating my liberty

>>8420532
>conflict seem barbaric or primitive

I believe this to be true so I guess it has, but I'm willing to entertain other ideas.

>>8420538
Now picture this: Polish immigrants who had nothing to do with your slave trade come in, and their son grows up and finds some bespectacled fuck with a balding head telling him he benefit from racism that built the country before he even got there. It makes no sense.

>>8420518
I don't know why the point needs to keep being reiterated, but the fear isn't that transpeople will harass women, the fear is that by not having an objective definition of what constitutes being a woman you'll open the door for problems concerning whether or not certain female facilities (particularly locker rooms) are open to men whose only qualification for womanhood is they they subjectively claim that they feel they were born in the wrong body, and no one can say otherwise due to the fear of a discriminatory lawsuit. It's literally the definition of a legal loophole.

>I have the right to act in my own self interest as an individual.
Why does this need to be stated? Transphobes can invoke this right as much as you can.

>>8420544
If said Polish person gets read as white by society at large then they're benefiting from institutional racism, yes. Let me repeat: you aren't a bad person for things that happened in the past, but you are a bad person if you refuse to do anything to correct that past.

>>8420447

Perhaps consider a society of brainwashed individuals may embrace a self destructive ideology.

Whether or not its intentional by a ruling class of elites who may or may not be in power, doesn't a self destructive ideology decrease the likelihood of general happiness withing a society and or outright threaten its existence?

>>8420549
This has never been an issue in the past. Where do you think trans people have been peeing all this time? Why do we suddenly need to legislate against it now? And why does a transphobe's desire to be shitty and abusive to me trump my right to safety and peace of mind?

>>8420552
why is it my responsibility? I am a completely free individual consciousness, the color of my skin should be absolutely meaningless

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>>8420536
I don't understand why you linked me this but I will keep it in consideration

>>8420561
IS DOING DRUGS FINALLY EDGY AGAIN? I'VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME FOR THIS!

>>8420493

Let's be honest black people shouldn't even want the white man's help let alone beg them for help

Malcolm X was 100% right about this

>>8420559
I would love to live in a world where the color of someone's skin is absolutely meaningless, but don't be disingenuous, you know that it does matter. If you can't even acknowledge that then this is the point where I start blaming you, personally, for being dense.

>>8420538
Except that it's not that simple. The money was spent decades ago and dispersed among the population, and the few people responsible for stealing it are all dead and their descendants aren't always known. It's an impractical solution.

>>8420552
>then they're benefiting from institutional racism, yes
Bullshit, and I will prove why you're wrong for soaking up that media message:

You argue there's a theoretical institutional racism, even though almost all universities, businesses, courts and government positions have diversity quotas, and harshly punish anyone caught with views or comments that even suggest racism.

It can be proven there's benefits and quotas for people solely for the color of their skin, being handed out just because of what their color is. That's proven racial benefit, not your suspected racism lurking behind every institution you merely "say" exists.

>>8420558
"Shitty" is a subjective perceived feeling with no legal or philosophical definition. Why is the peace of mind of a few trannies more important than the peace of mind of far more cis women?

>>8420534
It really is. That often repeatedly to de any successes, and tie both them and my very existence to the grand historical/moral narrative of the suffering of oppressed peoples. It's the purpose of such a phrase is to make me and those in my demographic the only one capable of being blamed. To say otherwise is dishonest.

I understand that you've drunken far too much of the intersectional kool-aid to understand anything but the canned lines it offers. It's an intellectual lobotomy.

>>8420572

Here's a 'real' example of racism negatively impacting people of color.

>We study race in the labor market by sending fictitious resumes to help-wanted ads
in Boston and Chicago newspapers. To manipulate perceived race, resumes are
randomly assigned African-American- or White-sounding names. White names
receive 50 percent more callbacks for interviews. Callbacks are also more responsive
to resume quality for White names than for African-American ones. The racial
gap is uniform across occupation, industry, and employer size. We also find little
evidence that employers are inferring social class from the names. Differential
treatment by race still appears to still be prominent in the U.S. labor market. (JEL
J71, J64).

https://www.povertyactionlab.org/sites/default/files/publications/3%20A%20Field%20Experiment%20on%20Labor%20Market%20Discrimination%20Sep%2004.pdf

If you want to go tit for tat I can find you studies all day long.

>>8420495
the joke is that the committee says to retcon history so it will be more inclusive.

>>8420576
Because trans women aren't assaulting cis women in women's bathrooms, but cis men are assaulting trans women in men's bathrooms (and in your mind, also in women's bathrooms). If we want to prevent bathroom crime we should just not let cis men use public restrooms. That seems like the most reasonable course of action if you ask me.

If the story of modern whites, as a ruling class, being obliged to pay a penance towards those they have supposedly wronged is correct, then why should the whites as a ruling tribe roll over? This is some form of moral subservience which is probably unprecedented, it will take enormous conflict to resolve this

>>8420581
>African-American or white sounding names

lmao

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>>8420561
If you need spoonfeeding here, but it's really more for the rest of the thread's benefit.

FIRE documents speech infringements and censorship on campus, it paints a very idiotic picture of the tolerant left.

>>8420581
Why would an interviewer waste his time with someone with a stereotypically black name when he knows that statistically speaking that person will be less capable than people with stereotypically white names? It seems perfectly reasonable to me.

>>8420552
>but you are a bad person if you refuse to do anything to correct that past.
Why are some historical atrocities more worthy of a modern correction than others? What's the cutoff date? Who does it apply to? Why can you take my money in order to correct for mistakes none of my ancestors took part in?

>>8420591

The resumes are identical. Statistically speaking, the made up resume people are exactly as capable as one another, because their achievements are identical.

>>8420580
you're reading far too much into this. a statement about history doesn't blame you at all.

>>8420470
Does not mean they all have made 1 to 1 contribution to the world

>>8420596
Right, women and people of color have probably contributed more to the world than white men. Because there's more of them.

>>8420581
And what are the variables in your little study? Where exactly did those ads get posted? Was it a majority democrat town or republican? Was it a poor district or rich?

You're just throwing out one example of a vague experiment that only proves people are willing to hire names that aren't "black," whatever that poll had them as. What is a black name, exactly?

Prove that giving one person a benefit like a scholarship because of their skin while denying another the same because of theirs is somehow not racist in and of itself.

>>8420594
>The resumes are identical. Statistically speaking, the made up resume people are exactly as capable as one another, because their achievements are identical.

Which then shouldn't make it surprising that people are choosing based on different metrics, given that they are in fact identical.

>>8420595
Maybe more care should be taken to make it sound less that way, then? Because so much of this stuff really does take on the tone of blaming white people.

>>8420598
That's some shit logic.

>>8420604
>white people

Of course they hold everyone with light skin complicit in some terrible past crime, yet other crimes suffered by those same "white people" are ignored because they don't qualify for piss poor victim status.

The millions who were hunted down and murdered in communist purges? Who cares lol, you must have privilege after moving here in rags. Now slavery, let me tell you why you magically benefit from it having happened...

>>8420611
Really? I'm not seeing it. Why do you think the contributions of white men are more important than those of women and people of color? Can you prove your claim?

Man accused of filming women in Smyrna park’s bathroom

SMYRNA, Tenn. – Authorities believe a man arrested in Wisconsin filmed women inside Smyrna restrooms.

William Davis was charged in Smyrna with felony especially aggravated sexual exploitation of a minor.

Fullerton man arrested on suspicion of filming people in a Chapman University bathroom

A 24-year-old man was arrested Tuesday after a hidden cell phone was found recording video inside a Chapman University bathroom, police said.

A female employee told campus public safety officials at 1 a.m. Tuesday she had seen a cell phone while inside a unisex single-person restroom in the Leatherby Libraries, said Lt. Fred Lopez of the Orange Police Department. The bathroom is located on the first floor Rotunda Commons.

Campbell man, a teacher, arrested for secretly recording people inside bathroom

SAN JOSE – A private elementary schoolteacher accused of secretly recording people in the bathroom of his home was charged Wednesday with three misdemeanors, according to the Santa Clara County District Attorney’s Office.

Authorities say the arrest Thursday of 31-year-old Andrew Donahue of Campbell was not related to his role as a teacher at Challenger School in San Jose. Donahue has been charged with three counts of taking photographs or filming someone who is in a bathroom or in a state of privacy, according to prosecutor Luis Ramos.

Teacher among 16 facing child porn charges, also accused of filming with tablet in bathroom

HAMILTON TOWNSHIP, N.J. – A teacher, a school bus driver, and a high school student were among 16 people facing child pornography charges in New Jersey, authorities announced Wednesday.

Thomas Guzzi Jr., 36, of Pitman… is also charged with third-degree invasion of privacy for allegedly hiding a tablet computer in a bathroom stall at the theater to record video of others using the toilet. A video found on his computer allegedly revealed him installing the camera.

Colfax man arrested for allegedly filming women in bathrooms

COLFAX, Wash. – A man was arrested after deputies believe he had been secretly filming multiple women using the bathroom. Court documents indicate the recordings were taken both in his home, as well as one of the alleged victim’s homes. The recordings dated back several years, according to court records.

Michael A. Novak was arrested as deputies arrived with a search warrant for his home. His alleged victim’s said they knew and trusted him.

Man arrested after camera found in restaurant bathroom

MIAMI – Beyond the outer walls of La Perla, inside the women’s bathroom, is where a customer said she found a recording device facing the direction of the restaurant’s toilet.
Might as well ignore these cases for the 0.3% of the population who identify as trans.

>>8420621
reply to>>8420586

>That seems like the most reasonable course of action if you ask me.

Not gonna get anywhere with that attitude. We outnumber you by a lot.

>>8420616
>implying I said they are more important.
you said
>probably contributed more to the world than white men. Because there's more of them.
quantity of people says nothing about their education or basically anything else. you suck at baiting and overall /lit/ has gone to shit

>>8420616
White men invented the computer and the internet, the greatest tools for learning and communication ever invented. Point proven.

>>8420586
>If we want to prevent bathroom crime we should just not let cis men use public restrooms
That's a less tenable solution than banning the infinitesimal number of degenerate men who like playing dress up.

>whites are better!
>blacks are better!

Tribalists please leave

This thread is what happens when women and trannies are allowed to post on /lit/

>>8420621

>Fifty-three percent (53%) of respondents reported being verbally harassed or disrespected in a place of public accommodation, including hotels, restaurants, buses, airports and government agencies.

>Twenty-six percent (26%) of respondents had been physically assaulted in at least one of these contexts because they were transgender or gender non-conforming. Ten percent (10%) of respondents were sexually assaulted due to this bias.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

>An estimated 0.6% of adults, about 1.4 million, identify as transgender in the United States.

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf

Gonna have to try harder, bud.

>>8420649
this desu.
i love when people pretend that entire groups of diverse people are somehow responsible for x invention, or y event, solely due to their skin color, when in reality most people of any color are fucking dumb.

>>8420658
Oh, even better (worse):

>12% report that they have been harassed, attacked, or sexually assaulted in a bathroom in the last year.

http://www.ustranssurvey.org/preliminary-findings

So let's see, 12% of 1.4 million is... Like 150,000+ people? Versus five perverts you found? Yeah, I don't buy your argument.

>>8420595
It ties me into the historical in such a way that I am the recipient of all blame regarding contemporary social issues.

But all subtext magically disappears when you're fighting for equality, right?

>>8420604
They won't. These lines have been proven as scientific facts by sociologists. To question them is the same as questioning evolution or climate change.

>>8420614
To their credit, they're only interested in past events that have directly led to the inequalities they find in their own countries. Communist purges haven't really contributed to the current state of race relations.

>>8420658
Nice attempt to garner sympathy, but being a victim doesn't change my views on the issue whatsoever. The threat of the loophole being exploited is still greater than the likely exaggerated thetaskforce.org statistics that don't even refer to harassment in bathrooms.

Also, the 0.3% referred to men.

>>8420581
Tbf studies on race in the US tend to overlook the class element and zero in on race, and a lot of "black-sounding" names tend to sound lower-class. The black girl named LaShonda is probably about as likely to get a call as the white girl named Misti.

>>8420672
>Versus five perverts you found?
There are literally dozens of cases. The website that compiled them listed well over thirty.

>12% report that they have been harassed, attacked, or sexually assaulted in a bathroom in the last year.
I can almost guarantee you that this is about as credible as the study that found that college campuses have higher rate of rape than the Congo.

>>8420679
>The threat of the loophole being exploited is still greater than the likely exaggerated thetaskforce.org statistics that don't even refer to harassment in bathrooms.

The NTDS was the largest survey of trans people in the US ever conducted to date. But I'll tell you what, once you can find me even 1,500 examples of women being harassed by men in the women's room in the last year, I'll start to consider your 'loophole threat' as legitimate and greater than the threat trans people face.

>>8420683
You're delusional. But please, keep giving me reasons why a legitimate survey of thousands and thousands of people 'counts less' than a couple dozen local news reports.

sff people all have this weird, educated-but-not-smart voice, you see it on all their blogs

>>8420685
I can't find anything detailing the study's methodology, whether or not the people who chose to participate where motivated to by their negative experiences, and whether or not they disproportionately came from disadvantaged neighborhoods. Without knowing these things the survey is completely useless.

>>8420689
Show me the survey's methodology so that I can study it. A single page of random, self-selected polling says less than nothing.

>>8420696
>>8420699
>TABLE OF CONTENTS
>Methodology....................................................................................................................................................................12

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>>8420703
>not self selected for people who've experienced discrimination at all!

They're literally soliciting sob stories. This is the problem with non-weighed data points.

>>8420716
>this survey on discrimination against trans people doesn't count because they surveyed trans people who have been discriminated against!

Could you be grasping any harder right now?

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>>8420435

Let's hope so anon.

>>8420439

This fellow was hardly out of his 20s. There's a whole sub-caste of young professors with no offices of their own teaching undergraduates. I took class on Jap popular culture and we had one lecture on "gender and sexuality." There was a five minute presentation by one of the TAs about why gender was a social construct and how you could even choose not to have any gender at all. This had nothing to do with the Japs, it was copy and pasted from some other lecture.

There was a civil rights incident the same year when the rainbow flag got burned and the "Fuck the Cistem" march didn't feel safe enough to proceed. It turns out some tranny burned it because he/she didn't feel included. You can't make this shit up, it's like satire in real life.

>>8420601
Embarrassing.

All of those questions are answered within the first two paragraphs of the linked study. It takes about 45 seconds of reading.

>>8420761
I only posted the link to make them look stupid, I didn't really expect them to read it. I mean, look at this shit: >>8420696 >>8420699

>>8420743
Not him
You don't seem to understand methodological soundbess.
Having a open share like that will always skew the numbers higher on surveys like this one.
You also coukd use a control to see how much higher it is than the general population.

>>8420814
Most of the data is compared to a general population control, you'd know that if you bothered to even look at the report. Cripes...

>>8420823
Meh i am just not very sympathetic to dekusional people who expect me to play along with them i guess.

>>8420834
You sound like a very mean spirited person. I know who I am and I don't understand why you can't deal with that without lashing out.

>>8420847
Saying that i want the all flayed is mean spirited.
All i said is that i am unwillint to play along with crazy.
Enabling mental illness is awful for society.
You clearly dont know who you are since you think yourself to be the oppsite sex.

>>8420855
Trans folks are generally much more well adjusted post transition. Being trans isn't even considered to be a mental health disorder anymore by any major medical body in the Western world. I'm much happier for having done so, I have a partner and a college degree and close friends who understand and connect with me far better than anyone in my past.

>>8419965

If this was true then why are they against showing the tape?

>>8420866
Bullshit, half regret transitioning.
The dsm does consider it a metal disorder its just not a mental illness anymore. Which i dosagree with btw.


Thats nice but its far from a rule.
I have no reason to take part in your silly delusion.
Enabling mental illness is bad for society.

>>8420168
So you get tired of shitposting on mu so you come here?

>>8420866
You're just a pervert, I hope you can mend your ways

>>8419898
>ITT SJWs

Please, *comrades*, take your leave from the Patrician stead.

>>8420874
>Bullshit, half regret transitioning
Made up number, see http://transascity.org/quality-of-life-in-treated-transsexuals/ for a collection of quality-of-life studies. Don't make up numbers to support arguments, that's lying.

Gender dysphoria is the condition caused by the distress of being forced to live as a gender you don't identify with, and the best known cure according to all current medical and psychiatric science is transition.

>>8420879
Yeah, having boobs is pretty great. Jealous?

>>8420892
>transacity
lol
The best cure for destructive cancer is to remove it at the root. Will you ever realise you've made a terrible mistake?

>>8420911
Yeah, and the best way to treat gender dysphoria is with hormonal therapy, which you might have known if you followed that link which analyzes many peer reviewed studies on the topic. My biggest mistake was engaging in conversation with angry morons like you.

>>8420892
Your source is biased you mook how many do you think are goi g to go to a trans support website and slag it off?

Why do you identify as the gender you are not born? Thats the mental illness.
You cant say what the most effective treatment since its taboo to try to drug you.
Though pimozide has worked on your brand of crazy
You people are ill and we should not enable you.

>>8420892
>being forced to live as a gender you don't identify with

lmao

>>8420926
Would it make you feel better if I pulled all the citations for you so you don't have to click on the icky trans website? Or are you satisfied citing a single case study that's never been reproduced while ignoring dozens of studies? That's really stupid, Anon. You're stupid and mean.

>>8420941
It's pretty distressing.

>>8420958
>It's pretty distressing.

I don't get how, since nobody is forcing you to do anything.

>>8420958
The site is still going to be biased.
Which is understandable it is a support site. The
pimozide study was not there was it? Pimozide works without drastic changes and forcing other people to play your game.
There just is not enough research in to drug treatments. Every study starts with one.
How many are truly looking into actually curing it instead of enableing it? There is hope to cure it pimozide is that hope.

Funfact apparently gender dysphoria is related to schizophrenia. Not a mental illness my ass.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/schizort/2014/463757/

>>8420059
There's very little stopping them from building their own social media platform too compared to 10 years ago. Instead they want the same rights of ownership of someone else's property.

The really sad thing is their politics is homogeneous across the board too: they think that by labelling themselves 'left' or 'right' they automatically have something worthwhile to say.

>>8420973
I was forced to be a boy for most of my life, I didn't get any say in it.

>>8420977
No, the pimozide study isn't there, because it's a collection of studies about the quality of life after transition. It even includes studies that the author doesn't like the outcomes of!

And again, you don't draw strong conclusions off of single studies. Do you even know how science works? I'm seriously doubtful.

it's tribe mentality
it's millennia old
it's not ok

>>8420986
>I was forced to be a boy for most of my life, I didn't get any say in it.

What do you mean you "didn't get any say it in" ?

Did someone say, "you have to act like X, or I will kill you" because that's what "force" means.

>>8420986
Did i draw a stong conclusion? I do believe i used the word hope.
It needs to be tried more but because of people like you and that website they are afriad of the political backlash.
This is why you dont enable the mentally ill they get in the way of their own treatment.

>>8420926
>you can take a drug that makes you feel certain way therefore your normal state is a mental illness
Doesn't follow, really bad reasoning. For sure a lot of people are forever depressed about having a sex change, but it looks to me a lot like those people who have plastic surgery after plastic surgery: they are chasing a dream that medical science cannot fulfill. So the results are always disappointing.

>>8420989
Yeah, my older brothers kicked the shit out of me when I got into makeup when I was five.

>>8420993
The vast majority of people who get GRS are satisfied with the results, see: >>8420892

>>8420993
You completely misconstrued that.
I have no idea where you are going.
Butt out

>>8420998
I'm wary of all studies on this. It may be true that most people remain happy with the decision till old age, but no study will show this convincingly.

A quick glance over it tho makes me think it looks alright, social acceptance is a big factor and men transitioning to women find it harder.

>>8420999
Trips of butthurt apparently. Your whole argument is about a drug allegedly making people feel/act a certain way as if that's a kind of naturalist support for your ideas. And it isn't, that's kinda retarded.

>>8421015

Thats what some drugs do.
It corrects an imbalance.
In tgis case the imbalance of not you feelings not matching the reality of the situation.

Are transgendered people mentally ill? Serious question, and I'm not from the alt right, I'm just curious.

I mean, I having nothing against those who are transgendered at all. I feel bad for them. One of the reasons I ask if it's a mental illness, is because with some people, it makes them want to mutilate their body and have different types of surgeries, and taking amounts of hormones that your body was not built for. It just seems incredibly unhealthy. They also have high risk of suicide and depression.

I wouldn't think of homosexuals as mentally ill, all that affects them is that they are attracted to the same sex. Though with transexuals, they want to cause harm to their body in order to feel better mentally.

Why don't doctors treat it as a mental illness? That way there could be healthy ways to help them.

Don't know if I'm missing something, buy it just seems unhealthy.

>>8421023
It's clearly a mental disorder, because it's not normal to feel like you're a woman when you're born a man, and vica versa.

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.

>>8421023
>taking amounts of hormones that your body was not built for

My hormones are in normal female ranges and I get regular blood draws to monitor it. If you're arguing that male bodies aren't equipped for estrogen and vice versa, you're wrong - human bodies respond to either, which is why HRT works in the first place.

>>8421043
>If you're arguing that male bodies aren't equipped for estrogen and vice versa, you're wrong - human bodies respond to either, which is why HRT works in the first place.

No amount of estrogen is going to give you double X chromosomes, and neither will it morph your penis into a vagina, and neither will it allow you to have babies.

>>8421054
Yeah, but that doesn't mean he can't cut it off and pretend he's a woman. You're so mean anon. You don't know how hard it is.

>>8421054
Not yet, and already kind of (a trans-op literally inverts the penis), and not yet

>>8421057
>>8421060
But the defining characteristic of being female is having ovaries and the ability to have babies.

If you can't do that, in what sense are you a woman?

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>there are actual trannies on /lit/

Hitler come back. We need you.

>>8421072
>confusing gender with sex, for the billionth time

>>8421123
Right, so why would transgender people want to change their sex then, if it didn't matter?

>>8421021
>It corrects an imbalance
That's now the language of criticism in psychiatry and psychopharmacology. The profession no longer views it that way in general, at least not overtly, because it's way too simplistic and reductionist.

>>8421072
>his menopausal gran has transitioned out of being female

>>8421057
You've very much fallen into the is/ought trap. Hume warned you bro, he told you dawg.

>>8421054
Pure ideology

>>8421103
>there are actual trannies on /lit/
I see you've come for the tour Mr Tourist.

While there have been trans people on here since the start we haven't had these dumbass discussions on here (that much) until tumblr and /pol/ decided /lit/ was make out point.

>>8421126
Not all do xrah

>>8421130
>his menopausal gran has transitioned out of being female

No, she hasn't, because experiencing and going through menopause is also a part of being female.

Not to mention the fact that she has already had children.

>>8421131
>Not all do

Maybe not, but it's retarded to think gender isn't correlated with whatever sex you are, simply because transgender people exist.

>>8421126
You can't change sex you can only modify sexual characteristics

>>8421137
>you can only modify sexual characteristics

And breasts and a vagina are female sexual characteristics.

>>8421132
The ability to have babies is not the same as having had babies. If I become paralysed from the waist down I don't have the ability to walk despite having been there done that.

And, your gran has facial hair now, she may well be taking female hormones to maintain the pretense of being female still. Your granny is now a trannny and you should just accept her for that.

>>8421130
Its not reductionist at all.
That is what it is.
Gender dysphoria is a condition that is related to schizophrenia.
Having your feelings not matching reality In such a profound was cam be nothing but an imbalance.

>>8420092
>badthought
This isn't the board for you.

>>8421146
Don't act like SRS is an actual vagina that is complete nonsense its a coping treatment to make you feel more comfortable.
Its still in no way changing your entirety of your sex as that is literally impossible

>>8421146
Changing your morohology does not change your biology.

>>8421149
>Its not reductionist at all.
>That is what it is.
Very interesting m8. Very interesting.

>>8421154
Stop derailing you mongoloid.

If you're going to argue that transgenderism has nothing to do with what sex you are, then there is literally zero point for SRS or hormone therapy to exist, because they could just stay male and put on clothes and wear make-up.

But we both know that they won't do that, because being a woman also means having female parts, it's not just "feeling" like one, like Simone de Beauvoir says.

>>8421147
So my grandmother isn't a woman then, by your own lights, and neither is any woman really a woman for that matter.

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>>8419898
>science fiction

Getting prescribed hormones for gender dysphoria is like getting prescribed suicide for depression.

It's retarded. Just sort your head out. You're not actually a woman trapped in a man's body.

>>8421158
What are you on about I said it is to make you more comfortable which it does it doesn't mystically reverse millions of years of evolution and dimorphism. It is ALL about "feeling" female because no matter what that fact can NOT change as its based upon your genetic makeup and how you are born
>>8421166
Literally just b urself just sorting it out is like being prescribed nothing for depression

>>8421130
what's funny to me is that this "thing" considers itself a normal human being while typing out these posts, when he's actually a mentally ill drag queen.


I imagine him feeling superior for whatever reason and I can't stop giggling.

What's the difference between gender dysphoria and species dysphoria? What makes onr legitimate and the other a joke?

>>8421123
there is no such thing as gender you stupid fuck.

It was synonymous with sex until delusional freaks coopted it.

>>8421169
yeah, and it works for many people.

Honestly electro-shock therapy would be better than hormones.


>>8421173
One isn't being shilled as normal and acceptable yet.

>>8421173
The human body doesn't start off as a fucking oxen and over exposure to sex hormones in the womb turn into a boy or a girl. There is a process of sex conversion in the womb which is not full proof and can lead to disorders both mental and physical
>>8421181
No shit I never said otherwise

>>8421189
yeah keep tellin urself that kid

honestly this whole transgender craze just seems like men who can't find satisfaction in life leading a male role (because men have no role in society anymore), so they break down under stress and decide that they are actually a woman.

>>8421191
It's not a brand new thing surgical options and properly documented cases have existed for decades. I will agree that there is a large group of numales joining in the oppression olympics bandwagon

>>8421171
I'm a hypermasculine /fit/izen if anything. I honestly won't view you as an adult male if you're under 200lbs. But what other people feel or do is really their own business, I don't feel the need to """"muscle""''' in on that shit as yourself.

>>8421163
>by your own lights
I can't work out exactly what that should be, but I am being facetious and using something like an argumentum ad absurdum (the guy's views are just plain absurd on their own tho). However I have at least as nutty views in some ways.

>>8421198
>under 200 lbs

manlet detected

>>8421198
>(the guy's views are just plain absurd on their own tho)

In what sense are they absurd?

>retarded thread about some sci-fi fantashit author at a sci-fi fantashit convention
>gets like 300 posts
/lit/ is dead

>>8421205
Hello /co/.

>>8421207
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>8419991
yes yes, if you don't like the way things are just cut yourself off from society so you have no impact on it. this is surely the correct course of action.

go back to r.eddit if you want to talk about sci-fi shit faggots

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Don't say /tg/ didn't warn ya /lit/.

only dorky sci-fi fantasy shit nerds have to care about political correctness. some of the most famous living authors of real literature are extremely politically incorrect

>the academia-media-publishing industrial complex doesnt exist

Wheres my apology?

>>8421218
You're wrong, Political Correctness is all genre fiction has left, If it abandoned that it wouldn't have anything, far-leftists are the only people driving sales for theses authors.

>>8421224
good i hope it dies

>>8421226
You shouldn't, unless you want publishers to go bump.

>>8421228
they still have self-help books, airport thrillers, romance, etc. also the best publishers are independent publishers anyway

>>8421195
Transspeciesism has also a long history dating back hundreds of years

>>8421189
Stop with the bioessentialism bullshit, we all start as mammalian cells

>>8421251
>we all start

And yet we don't end up the same.

Leftism is a fucking blight and needs to fuck off this board.

>>8421255
If that were the case, trannies wouldn't need gender reassignment to reach their biological ideal

>>8421262
I'm OK with both leftism and rightism but all genrefags need to fuck off

>ITT trannies and SJWs

Fucking hilarious, when did /lit/ become /mu/?

>ITT genreshit

Fucking hilarious, when did /lit/ become /mu/?

>>8420380
>No because individual liberty is the only liberty that matters, ergo a tranny's right to piss wherever they want supersedes the Christian morality (held by billions) held by a business (consisting of at least dozens)
It's like you've literally just discovered what liberalism is.

>>8420005

>but the enlightenment concept of free speech means more than just being safe from government persecution

nope, that's the only thing that you're being guaranteed by freedom of speech. you can have it, but no one needs to listen to your bullshit, and no one needs to invite you to their conferences. that's no censorship.

Corporations should be allowed to control speech just like they're allowed to control the economy.

>>8421330
In a way, corporations already control speech - the majority of information exchange is nowadays handled online in spaces owned and run by corporations, with very little government say except in the underlying physical infrastructure. Twitter can and does shut down your favorite account, Facebook can and does delete your posts, Gmail can and does disappear your email, and there's nothing you can do about it.

That's the reason why you have these European government-run infrastructure projects like De-Mail, a try of the government to get some public space back into the Internet. These things usually fail because a) the good people make more money in industry and b) no-one trusts their government

>>8421339
I know and that's extremely good shit.

Nothing is being forced they're all just too pussified to do the opposite.

>>8420984
This is great

>>8419963
I would argue that those who took a trip to the Lubyanka would see some difference between the two

>>8420552
That's not in itself institutional racism. If someone has a racist view (white people are better or black people are shitter or even Polish people are stealing our jobs and benefits) AND they have conferred upon them institutional power that they use to further that agenda THAT is a form of institutional racism. It isn't something inherent to "the system" tho in this case, it's individual.

The one you hear about in the news is more about "no individual is at fault, it is really a problem of the systems they operate within" which is quite different. And of course not having inherited money made from exploiting people with different colour skin is a part of that.

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>>8421348
this
the key to overcoming leftist insanity is to just ignore them and create your own spaces

>>8421348
Tell that to Nick Cole.

>>8421398

It's not just leftists, you stupid nigger. Everyone is pretty fucking stupid and ascribing a label to it beyond "retardation" is, well, retarded.

>>8419991

You sound like a Pinochet fan.

>>8421405
>you stupid nigger

People in this thread arguing trangender = mentally ill and acting as armchair experts lmao

Science has reached a consensus on the issue. The research is there, the description of the issue is there, the prescripted solution too. You're no better than climate denialists at this point.

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>>8421446

>>8420005
>the enlightenment concept of free speech means more than just being safe from government persecution

This is totally right... but try convincing any self proclaimed "classical liberal" this today. Classical liberalism wasn't really just about GUBERMENT BAD, at its core it was a critique of illegitimate privilege and power which governments claim but also private vested interests. Handing power over to private oligarchs isn't liberty. Adam Smith targeted the passive rentier class as not having any truly legitimate moral claim on their income since capitalization upon property titles has no natural required outlay of living or embodied labour in it so their livelihood is always just a deduction from the productive elements of society.

>>8421298
That's an extreme over simplification that ignores the actual power structure of society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

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>>8421446
>science has reached a consensus
>this is what liberals actually believe

regardless, gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

>>8421446

What research?

Maybe you will kill yourself along with the other 40% + of shemales and transexuals who didn't go to a shrink to treat their psicosis

>>8421298
freedom of speech isn't the 1st amendment.

I don't know how this whole thing got mixed up. The 1st amendment protects you from government censorship of any form.

Freedom of Speech, on the other hand, is a philosophy of respect for all opinions, in all facets of life.

>>8421446
You mean crazy psychiatrists like John Money have reached a consensus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>>8421476
>Reimer said that Dr. Money forced the twins to rehearse sexual acts involving "thrusting movements", with David playing the bottom role. Reimer said that, as a child, he had to get "down on all fours" with his brother, Brian Reimer, "up behind his butt" with "his crotch against" his "buttocks". Reimer said that Dr. Money forced David, in another sexual position, to have his "legs spread" with Brian on top.

Wat

>>8421482
And then you wonder why both of them committed suicide 30 years later.

>>8419898
>Americans

>>8421457
Thanks for proving my point that you're basically climate warming denialists

>The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."[11]

The APA position: http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

>APA is the world's largest association of psychologists, with more than 117,500 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students as its members.

How's this for consensus?

>>8421464
I'm straight male, I'm just humble enough to admit that people with relevant degrees and who have conducted research about transgender issues might know a good deal more about it than me

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html

Sorry to link HuffPost, but the 40% statistic has more to do with transgender people having to put up with the bullshit of people like you than anything else

>>8421504
>The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition

Sounds like very politically correct way of saying it's a mental illness to me.

"Clinically significant distress" is literally saying it's pathological.

>>8421488
>And people still argue that Psychology is Science

>>8421298
This is just wrong. Censorship can come from any source of power which shuts down the dissemination, or discourages the propagation of, unpopular views.

To use a /lit/ example, various women's groups threatened a mass boycott of the publisher of American Psycho, since they claimed the book promoted violence against women. The original publisher backed out roughly a month before the book's scheduled release, and then another publisher picked up the book, drawing the further ire of certain women's groups. The book obviously did get published, but it nearly didn't happen. What if nobody had been willing to touch the book for fear of a mass boycott of their company as a whole, and we just couldn't read American Psycho since it was inaccessible? Wouldn't authors then also engage in self-censorship to make sure there is nothing that might provoke controversy in their works?

Robert Christgau raised similar censorship concerns in the music industry when people threatened to boycott the record company that put out Ice Cube's Death Certificate album, in addition to any retailer that carried the album.

Fiction writers are mostly manchildren so its expected that they behave like children, eliminating anyone they don't like

Anyone else think we'll look back at 'transitioning' with the same level of shock and disbelief as we do with lobotomies/etc?

>>8421539
We'll look back at a lot of mental health treatments like that.

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>>8421530
>American Psycho
>Now I'm remembering how good of a book that was

>>8421526
and you sound like you're reinterpreting the words of experts to suit you priors

my point was that not every transgender person suffers from gender dysphoria before transitioning, so even assuming gender dysphoria IS a mental disorder, not every transgender person is mentally ill

>>8420421
>Serious issues like feminism

HAHA

>>8420510
>The people who got him expelled don't want you to see what actually happened
>He wants you to see it so you make your own judgement

GEE I WONDER WHO'S THE BAD GUY HERE

>>8421504

>HuffPost

you can be sorry all you want but no one will take you seriously

>>8421556
>and you sound like you're reinterpreting the words of experts to suit you priors

Nah, I'm pretty sure that if the experts actually wrote what they really think, there would be political mayhem, hence they don't.

>>8421564
there are several links to peer reviewed literature there, otherwise I wouldn't have used it

>>8421570
hahaha yeah dude, it's just like, a massive conspiracy

go choke on chemtrails retard

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>>8421504

>I'm straight male, I'm just humble enough

>>8421583
non argument

>>8421588

Of course it's not an argument, you are a joke to me

i'm glad this thread about genreshit pleb sjws is finally going to die

It's Sci fi, who gives a shit? Real fiction writers can do whatever they want because they hardly ever get read anyway

>>8421504
It literally is only a matter of time before all Body dysmorphic disorders are considered as legitimate as Gender dsyphoria.

Don't like your legs? cut them off, it's totally not a mental illness you are suffering from!

>>8421778
>literally a "slippery slope argument"

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>>8421785
>Implying it's a fantasical situation and hasn't already happened

Why do right-wingers feel so oppressed all the time?

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>>8421813
I'm left wing and I hate these freaks

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Threadly reminder that /pol/ is the result of a neo-nazi astroturfing campaign. Please sage and report /pol/ threads.

>>8422004
>Stormfront
>Active
topkek

>>8420443
>In Alabama after they implemented voter registration laws, they closed DMVs in like half the counties in the states (majority black counties, by the way)

Source? If true, that's fucking hilarious.

>>8420495
To be fair, Curie and Carver are more worthy than Edison.

>The state of the science fiction community is rather authoritarian-
>YOU'RE BANNED! GET OUT!
>Okay, let me just release the video-
>NO! IT'S BANNED!
>Those people over there are curios abou-
>BANNED! ALL OF YOU - BANNED!

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>>8422215
I remember this bullshit:

He's lying, http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/10/federal_prosecutor_on_dmv_clos.html

The federal investigation found it effected more Republican voters than Democrat.

Most of the DMVs closed actually had another DMV within the same building.

>>8420669
Because skin color is the ONLY difference between races, riiiiight?

>>8422277
>effected
Affected

>>8422256
Social Justice in a nutshell.

Now the censors are throwing another tantrum because there might be a video. What a fucking joke these animals are, banning the man who made a point about them banning people for ideology. It's like a comedy skit with leftists bulging their eyes behind thick-rimmed glasses at every deviation from their programming.