alright, you faggots convinced me to read this. is it gonna just

>>8394294
are we in /tv/? are you reading primarily for plot?

>>8394294
not even joking, go a day without eating anything and just read the book in one sitting

>>8394322
240 in the penguin edition, 140 in the dover edition (because dover uses the whole page and smaller letters to fit the words into.

>>8394322
its really short (like 130 pages or so) and the fasting thing makes it a really good read, but dont bullshit yourself by eating really big 23:59 a day defore

its like the /tv/ "Das Boot" thing, but actually feasible

>>8394294
It's okay. It wasn't bad by any means, but it wasn't anything great. I can see why it was so influential at the time, but the plot is frankly more interesting than the prose

>>8394336
Isn't prose just how the book is written or something, like the style of writing? I mean, unless you're going for some sort of feeling, or going for the some weird obscure reason, aren't all books meant to be read for the plot if they're fiction? I mean, unless you really just enjoy the writing style that much and don't care about what's going on in the story, which seems silly.

If you're not braindead you can probably finish it in 3>= sittings. Just do it.

>>8394363
You're absolutely right. /lit/ has somehow convinced themselves to think dividing a book by inseparable factors isn't retarded as fuck.

>>8394363
>I mean, unless you really just enjoy the writing style that much and don't care about what's going on in the story, which seems silly.

Without baiting; why?
Why does that seem silly to you?

First of all lets make one thing clear: At least here on /lit/, the word "prose" is used as "writing-style" (and similar) and by that it can vary in how good it is. With that clear, let me ask you a question:

If me and you sat down, and I'd start telling you the plot (in all detail) of a book, would that be same as you reading what the author wrote? I think we can agree that it would not be the same. Lets say, another author read that book and wrote his own version of the book (with the plot staying the same), would those two books be equal? If we can assume that both those books would indeed not be not equal, we could at least argue which one is better/worse. Well, better/worse in which regard? The plot didnt change, so obviously its not the plot that would be the meter for our discussion. We would be discussing about the writing itself (/lit/'s famous "prose").

It also depends on what you define as "the plot". If the plot is just "what happens" and by that could be formalized on some kind of story-board; then yes, the writing (prose) is at least as important to me as the plot. I would even go further and say, I would not enjoy a book with a great plot but subpar writing (Dune being a prime example for this), but I could (theorically) enjoy a book with a supbar plot but great prose (For example a book about a guy walking through Dublin).

But who really gives a fuck? If you dont want to start writing or join the circle of lit critics, just read whatever. Its not a competition.

>>8394330

whats the fasting gimmick about?

>>8394486
>me and you sat down
okay first of all, before I read this any further, it's "you and I", because you wouldn't say "me sat down", you'd say "I sat down".

>>8394486
I suppose you could say that the prose is how the story is told, which I think would make a lot of difference, if not all the difference. I think they're inseparable though, if you're really concerned about how the story is being told, you're concerned with the plot. Because it's not like you can read descriptive language and not get what it's trying to convey unless you weren't really paying attention. Then again, I suppose there could be a story that is so well written, like say, if I were to just write a whole story about me getting up and going to the grocery store, I suppose that I could write it so well that people would actually be interested in reading about such a mundane event.

>>8394330
What is /tv/ Das Boot thing?

>>8394370
They aren't inseparable. They do work in synergy, but I don't know how you can't separate the story, the events from, for example, the number and quality of metaphors or descriptions that a writer uses.

>>8394363
Have you read Moby Dick? That book has the greatest prose ever while the story is quite messy and usually not very interesting in itself. In other art forms, this qualitative disparity between elements can be even bigger. See operas with dumb stories but great music and comics with great art but, again, dumb stories.
Also, a book can be read for many reasons. A plot, unless it's pure genius, isn't worth much without support from the other elements.

>>8394512
>They aren't inseparable. They do work in synergy, but I don't know how you can't separate the story, the events from, for example, the number and quality of metaphors or descriptions that a writer uses.

Because you're just thinking of literature as a collection of parts instead of holistically; as a full experience.

Dune would not be the Dune we know if Herbert only stuck to Paul's POV and did it in first person. Hell even if he did have multiple POVs, but did not transition between them seamlessly. (That alone is something very few authors pull off well today - now its alot more segmented - I give him props for that alone)

Every single part of a book comes together to make that experience, sure some books are heavy or light in one place or another, but completely lacking either one you dont even get work of fiction. At best you get a courtroom transcription or something that actually wanted to be an essay but forgot.

>>8394503
Writing from mobile so excuse my short answer.
The Old Man And The Sea, is an example of a book that I personally would describe as prose heavy (not that the prose is outstandingly good). The plot could be accurately summarized in maybe two sentences max, whereas the beauty of the book lies somewhere else entirely.

>>8394512
Just a silly meme where you prepare yourself in a extreme way before and while watching (the amazing) movie Das Boot. Part of the preparation is getting rid of the furniture in the room you'll be watching the movie.

>>8394492
True, it's even the same in my first language, funny that my brain didn't notice that, as it sounds very wrong in my primary language.

Not eating for one day is nothing.

Try a Black Fast before reading the book: one meal a day after sunset, only bread and water, and a multivitamin tablet* for 40 days straight.

*Not official but I recommend it.

>>8394535
While it is true what you are saying, I would want to point out that (even if I'm going to sound stupid as fuck it), that you using Dune as an example of prose done right (or even better than what is done these days) only suggests to me that you don't really have intricate knowledge about prose (or modern prose). I am not trying to be rude but prose is what actually holds Dune as a book down, and is not something it should be praised for. And honest to God, I have never ever seen or heard of anybody who is well read in books that go further than just being mundane page-turner, who would argue that Dune has in any shape or form any good prose.

Also you seem to fixated on the idea that you either have both (prose and plot) in good amounts OR only one (prose or plot) . I would argue that amongst the greatest literature (and to stay on topic, Hunger being one of them), the plot is existent, also just marginally. So yes, you are in so far right, that there has to be at least some plot, but I would argue that a good book needs significantly less plot than you think.

>>8394580
I should start proof reading the mess I'm typing.

I meant: [...] stupid saying it.
And obviously I meant although and not also

>>8394580
Assume whatever you want. I did not say Dune was perfect or even that the prose was above average. What I /did/ do was explain what I enjoyed about it, and compared to other books in similar genres.

Herbert obviously isn't Joyce (and he really didn't need to be) but he handled the technique of Third Person Omniscient very well, something few authors in SFF today are able to do.

Now can you tell me where exactly that I, word for word, said he had good prose? Last I remember I was speaking of taking books as a whole experience, and used Dune as a fine example. Hell, I could say Phillip K Dick and my point would be equally valid.

>>8394369

> $ 3>= sittings
`undefined variable 'sittings' `

Its really good for existentialism and like Crime and Punishment you can feel the insanity of the narrator in the deepest parts of your mind

>>8394605
The thing I'm telling you is that he did not pull that (or anything other related to prose) off at all. That was the essence of my post and you just ignored that and repeated what you yourself said. We could argue why and why not the prose (quite literally every aspect of it), but honestly that would just be a time waste, as I'm sure that you really don't have read any (non fiction) books on writing, prose, or story telling. Yes I know I am assuming that and I can't say for sure, but can you really expect me to think that you are in any kind or form well-read in this matter when you seriously implied that Herbert had qualities that very few authors have these days (which by the way is complete bullshit).

But even ignoring all that fuss, your post is still shallow as fuck. You saying that books shod be experienced as a whole, is for me the equivalent of farting to take part in a discussion. Might as well have said nothing.

Obviously books are to be experiment as a whole, we know that, we were discussing how far to the extremes we can go and what kind of merits these extremes have. Also one user talked about Moby Dick and it's importance in literature, even with the scarce plot it had. Parallels between to other art forms have been thrown into the discussion. And your contribution to this whole discussion was "books should be experienced as a whole".
Maybe that's why I didn't take your post as seriously as I (in hindsight) might have.

>>8394679
I wish you'd read a little closer so you'd know I was talking about recent SFF when it comes to Herbert's approach to POV, because I outright specified it. The trend today is a series of plotlines going parallel instead of the sweeping approach Herbert took, and to me that made the story go much more smoothly than had he done otherwise. Obviously other authors like Tolstoy have done it; you never heard me say Herbert was the first or the best.

Now whatever else you're talking about is just going nowhere. What I'll say again that a books parts are completely inseparable if you want to preserve the qualities that make it what it is in the first place. Have you ever seen that manga version of Ulysses? Would ever call that being on the same level as the actual book? Of course not. Joyce's techniques made the thing alongside the plot. Its inseparable. The same thing with any book, be it Dune, War and Peace, Valis, or even the fucking Illiad.

You can say "oh this part was done better than another", and in many books, like Dune, that is a valid case. But to say that one part is more important than another is just stupid. All of the parts work together to make the whole. Even if the author takes a more minimalist approach to the plot or descriptions, etc. Such things are done as a conscious choice for a certain effect, which make up the very experience I'm talking about.

>>8394546
>Part of the preparation is getting rid of the furniture in the room you'll be watching the movie.
kek
I'm doing that

>>8394363
>aren't all books meant to be read for the plot if they're fiction?
Fucking no, saying that a plot's 'boring' is the lowest form of criticism, the people who believe this are philistines who'd be just as well off reading cheap genre fiction, and classic novels/authors of literature are classic because of their mastery of their language/medium and not their plots, be it Austen or Joyce.
Besides, there are only so many possible plots, whereas it would defeat the purpose of writing totally if you would ever say the same for prose

>>8394486
Good explanation anon, it deserves a paste.

>>8394309
>starve yourself and then read

Sounds alright, it will help feel with the faggot in the book. He is so hungry at one point he chews thrown bloody bones from a butcher's shop and vomits because of how sick and starving he is.


I read it as a metaphor for different kinds of hunger, more emotional hungers.

Fuck off back to KC

>>8394635
programming jokes should be punishable with death

>>8394656
This, it's very similar to C&P. I enjoyed it but got frustrated about what a dumb cunt he is.

>>8394363

Prose and the introduction of subthemes is what separates Lolita from some CP on Totse.

The plots are identical.

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>>8396308

>>8396478
Thanks now I gotta read that whole doujin again.

>>8396482
link?

>>8396489
I was about to ask for it since I can't remember the title and it seems to have dissapeared from my favorites, fuck.

>>8396489
Finally found it, here you go lad
https://nhentai.net/g/129106/

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This is what the memes tell us- is it accurate?

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>>8396525
Literally fuck off back to KC and take all the other faggots making these shit threads with you.

>>8396552
what

>>8396521
>https://nhentai.net/g/129106/
>>8396493
>>8396489
>>8396482
>>8396478
just spent the past hour or so jacking off to the full doujin. Not bad. I tried to shoot cum into my mouth but I missed and hit the side of my face. I've never successfully shot cum into my mouth thus far :(

>>8396525
It's probably one of the few truly good and accurate ones
I don't have it nearby but there's this one bit where you've heard the guy go on about food for a while, then he pawns off some of his personal items (I think, but in any case he acquires currency) and finally buys some food (cheese, I believe), but then he suddenly decides the cheese is poor and that he actually doesn't want to eat, but to be writing something instead, so he throws out the rest of the otherwise precious cheese which we were told he needed in the first place to keep his hunger from distracting him

>>8396673
Needless to say he's starving pages later and that the hunger is not just physical

>>8394294

Not at all, pleb. It's actually one of the most confiest reads out there. After you finish it, go ahead and read "Pan" and "Growth out of the soil"