How to be the ultimate patrician? In books, movies and music.

Pretend you already are.

>>8370795
Spend all of your time posting on 4chan, and asking strangers on the internet what's cool.

>>8370795
You don't become a patrician. You either are one or not. Trying to become one is a wasted effort and only gets you to the complete opposite of that goal.

>>8370795
You stop caring about it and try to analyze why you like certain things. A man who enjoys and critiques Katy Perry's music can easily be more of a patrician than someone who listens to swans.

>>8370844
Nice point anon. Stop asking "what is good?" and start asking "what makes this good?".

Warning, though: if the answer is "ideology" or "power" or (worst of all) "preference," then you're on the wrong track.

>>8370795
>soundtracks for the blind
>patrician
'No'.

>>8370851
The only thing wrong with those "answers" is that they don't open the door for further discussion and analysis.

>>8370844
>A man who enjoys and critiques Katy Perry's
Our society and our culture are being dumbed down, and the causes are very complex.

>>8370916
Can you explain how my statement relates. Anyways, the music theory behind pop music is not simple or dumbed down.

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>>8370844
Best answer by far

>>8370844
I rather hang out with somebody who can explain why they like a katy perry song
then some autist who just quotes scaruffi and anthony fantano aka /mu/

>>8370927
>the music theory behind pop music is not simple or dumbed down
Pop music compsers literally go out their way to make their songs only use few chords that also happen to be easy to play on a guitar to get free advertizing from teenage girl's youtube covers.

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>>8370795
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJohh7yv1A
first step of becoming a patrician is intuitively knowing that burning world is the best swans album

second step of becoming the ultimate patrician is not worrying about what's patrician because literally no one gives a shit

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>>8370957
The Burning World is a fucking joke

>>8370844
>imblying analysis is required to know that 'roar' is a top ten of decade song

>>8370927
>the music theory behind pop music is not simple or dumbed down.
It is very easy to play pop music with one year of experience with the instrument. But this isn't exclusive of pop music, and applies to most metal and rock as well.
The general exception is classical music. There's also a few exceptions in every genre, but it's not exactly mainstream pop.

>>8370795
I have some sort of highbrow interest in those three. Just read/listen/watch whatever you like until you get tired of it.
Since I started to take music lessons my interest in music have changed, a lot. I think writing and learning may improve the way you see books and music.
Films is a separate matter. I don't know how can a person study cinema by themselves. Still, watch whatever you want, the average person should be able to take only a certain amount of action/comedy and other shitty films that we see so often.

By dedicating all of your time to the various arts, becoming a knowledgeable elitist, and alienating friends and relatives in the process

>>8370795
>How to be the ultimate patrician?

You have to like the same things as me.

You have to be very rich in the first place. See some of the most influential members of the now defunct Sufu: they traveled the world to meet other members, to go to art fairs, fashion weeks etc. All of this and they still had a good grasp at philosophy, sociology and the Humanities in general.

>>8371009
"the now defunct Sufu:"
What ? can you provide a link or wiki on whatever that is.

>>8370859
It is.

>>8371153
No, it's garbage.
Get some taste, fucking pleb.

>>8371110
Superfuture. Along with StyleZeitgeist (millionaires dressing in dark clothes) and Styleforum (old men masturbating to leather boots), they made up for the three biggest fashion forums on the internet. Sufu was created in 2004 iirc.

>>8371157
You're just being contrarian.

>>8370795
Well, i'm sure the patrician would listen to Classical music. No debate here.

>>8371224
minimal techno is more patircian than classical music 2bh

>>8371212
>if you aren't a /mu/drone then you must be a contrarian!!!1!

>>8371224
Folk music is aight. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEcLyAi-zb8

>>8371232
I don't go to /mu/, friend, I like it because I like it.

>>8370795
>"toast in the toaster"

Wanna know how to be the ultimate patrician? Stop trying to be "patrician" and live your life naturally the way you want to. Also don't listen to Swans.

You have to be born into a wealthy enough family where you get special political privileges.

>>8371290
>I like it because I like it
Then how is it patrician? Your taste is like any other's, misinformed.

>>8370795
>how to be the ultimate patrician?
dig deeper

the only problem in this is that you will probably lack time to be equally """""patrician""""" in these 3 mediums

>>8371387
Then what makes for a patrician album?

>>8371359
One of these is correct.

>>8371359
Gonna be seeing a Swans show in a month. Pretty excited.

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>>8370795
>Not knowing this is the best album of all time.

>>8371578
it's pretty much there but are you sure that F#A#Infinity isn't superior?

>>8371578
>>8371594
my negros

>>8371578
>>8371594
>>8371613

F#A#Infinity is superior in every way.
SFTB is good too.

>>8371578
Post rock is the epitome of boring music. It's still just rock, but without the fun part.

lol spooked asshole

>>8371726
Kys

>>8371743
you're a creep with nothing to say

>>8371578
>>8371594
But New zero Kanada is better than both

>>8370795
For starters, don't consult an internet imageboard for advice on how to be great

>>8372183
New zero Kanada is the equivalent of some of Yeats' poems.

LYSF/FA are like Ulysses.

>>8370795
Move on from /mu/core and /lit/core tastes. People who champion mainstream cult like Swans or Velvet Underground are no better than Taylor Swift and Led Zeppelin fans.

>>8371578
>liking crescendocore

>>8371578
The field recordings and monotony ruin this one for me desu

>>8370795
Learn the theory and actively analyze the art you consume.

Also, music didn't start in 1960, you should listen to classical and jazz.

>>8370795
Find what you like, examine why you like it (so that you could tell someone if asked), then find more things you like
That's the basic lowdown, then there's understanding the medium and such, which people usually do associate with being patrician.
Can't tell you much about the others, but with music you should research the influences of artists and the characteristics of genres.
Theory might help you understand things, but it's not something you should focus on.
Theoretical and technical wankery in music is the domain of the pseudointellectual.

>>8371578
>worst album of GYBE
>the best of all time
kys

try listening to each album more than once, oh and it helps to reach you're own conclusions instead of /mu/ and pitch4k

>>8372365
true patricians listen to traditional pop

am I on /mu/?

>>8370966
Edgy titles aside, I enjoyed To Be Kind and The Seer more than anything else of theirs. And yeah I've done the whole "force feed myself a band's earlier and more inaccessible material until I 'enjoy' it more than what everyone is listening to by said band" countless times, but I'm pretty darn sure that those are my two favorite Swans albums.

>>8370795
It's all about creating an aesthetic.

If you want to read Kierkegaard and listen to Don Giovanni then that's cool, but if you want to read The Doors of Perception and listen to the Grateful Dead then that's cool too. Just go hard in whatever you do and really dig deep and become an expect of sorts in whatever area you chose.

I came on lit to avoid this trash

>>8373254
>>8372365
TRUE patricians listen to ironic 60s pop sung by a classical singer and a traditional pop singer.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6V8_Xvaz7xE

>>8371578
Probably

Stop caring what others think.

>>8370795
All the mu and tv crossover shit on this board makes me nauseous.

>>8374143
So you're saying that lit members should browse only lit and not have interests in /tv/ and /mu/ or any other boards.

>>8373568
nah this is like trying to be eclectic. true patricians achieve a balance between eclecticism and accessibility so they don't slip into self-parody

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>>8370844
By that logic, you might as well say it's patrician to unironically like Taylor Swift

>>8374362
Thanks for your useless contribution.

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>>8370795
>movies
Not art.
>music
Popular music its not Art. Theres already Art, duh.

Why do we have those meme threads everyday?!

>>8374405
*already Art Music

>>8371450
They're quite an experience. Saw them in DC few weeks back.

>>8374405
>movies is not art
nice

>>8374335
>he couldn't handle the forrestman

Btw are you saying my grandfather is self parody?

>>8370797
/thread

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>>8371578
jesus fucking christ

>>8371224
>Well, i'm sure the patrician would listen to Classical music.
The patrician would listen to the best examples of all genres.

1. Spend a lot of time reading/watching/listening.
2. Spend plenty of time thinking about what you read/watch/listen.
3. Read about what you read/watch/listen.
4. Try to not imitate the taste or opinions of someone else, this will probably end up as you being a follower rather than a patrician. If you feel like you're always falling back on what someone else said, challenge yourself to say it better.

These steps might make you a fine connoisseur.

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>>8370938
[Citation Needed]

>>8375702
http://www.dn.se/kultur-noje/sa-skapas-poppiga-hitlatar/
>When we wrote One Direction's songs we purposely made them so simple that my friends' children could record their own versions that they posted on youtube. Just listen. 98 percent of the songd revolve around the chords C, G, A minor and F. It creates an unconscious sense of regognition.

>>8370844
>expending effort to critique katy perry
shiggidy diggidy

>>8375477
That's classical music

>>8371224
Patricians listening to classical is only a meme in the eyes of plebs because it's seen as a traditionally upper class activity.
True patricians realize that notated music is outdated and that music made to record can have more musical depth than a sheet music piece.

>>8374362
>he doesn't love taytay

>>8377610
>being this demonstrably ignorant of classical music

>>8375477
The overwhelming majority of 'genres' that have occurred in history all fall under the broken umbrella of 'classical' and it's much less homogenous than you'd like to think. People in Bach's age would find all music from 1930-2016 as homogenous as you guys would for early Baroque to Mozart

>>8377622
>People in Bach's age would find all music from 1930-2016 as homogenous as you guys would for early Baroque to Mozart
>from chart pop to harsh noise
I see what you're saying, but they definitely wouldn't.

>>8370795
Listen to King Crimson

>>8370859
Agreed. Longtime Swans fan reporting, not too huge on SftB personally. Out of their Post Rock era shit I vastly prefer The Seer

>>8371578
>Slow Riot For New Zero Kanada not their best release
>Yanqui UXO not their best album
ISHYGDDT

>>8372183
Word up my nigga, BBF3 is their most emotionally rich track imo. That moment after he says "I think that that's pretty god damn sad, that they don't recognize their own country is a third world, third rate, third class slum," when all music quiets and the violin and cello drop in is the most beautiful moment in music I Can think of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKivQGH2QoY

/mu/fags go home

>>8370844
>analyzing things
The mark of a true plebeian

>>8378106
>>Yanqui UXO not their best album
emBARRASSING

>>8378099
Soundtracks isn't good only because it's 'assembled', but even then it's still so much better than the fucking seer lmao. it's easily the worst of the new albums, rope included (actually rope is pretty good, too bad it's produced like shit)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUY_zpPeab0

Taste is cultivated. So by reading a lor, watching a lot, and viewing a lot of art. The more you do it, the deeper you get into it.

But it takes time, it takes years. I've been watching films seriously for 8 years now. It's not done overnight, you have to remember that.

>>8378149
This.

>>8371224
only a pleb would call erudite music "Classical"

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true patrician music coming through
everything else posted itt is pedestrian

>>8374362
If you can provide arguments, as apposed to some one who likes "high culture" music and cannot, yes you are more patrician

Don't believe that you're a patrician for listening to some semi-obscure band please

>>8378631
Also best album posted itt

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swans is the music equivalent of Camus desu

>>8370981
> and alienating friends and relatives

It seems I'm 1/3 of the way there. I still have a long road ahead of me

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Patrician coming through.

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>Solzhenitsyn also harshly criticised what he saw as the ugliness and spiritual vapidity of the dominant pop culture of the modern West, including television and much of popular music: "...the human soul longs for things higher, warmer, and purer than those offered by today's mass living habits... by TV stupor and by intolerable music."

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>>8378915
Based.

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>>8378631
Can is good but Faust's s/t is the best krautrock album.

>>8378106
top kek m8

F#A# is their best album by far, but LYSF is more accessible to casual listeners because it's less ambient and more crescendos. ASAOD is also better than Yanqui UXO

taste is subjective, listen to what you enjoy, read what you enjoy

never stop exploring

that's all there is to it


t. top 0% obscurometer rating

>>8370844
>>8371359

Not this. Katy Perry is objectively shit, and conceding to the "lul everything's subjective XD" is a total cop out.

Arts are a mix.

>>8371224
>>8375477
This.


>Watch
Tarkovsky / Goddard / Bergman
>Read
Joyce / Dostoyevsky / Kafka / Dellilo / Melville
>Listen
Schoenberg / Stravinsky / Bartok / Beethoven / Mozart / Bach / Mahler / Debussy

>>8379963
>no Bresson, no Antonioni, no Fellini, no Truffaut
>no Tolstoy, no Camus, no Kant
>no Schubert

that's a pretty good list though

>>8379963
>no Kurosawa, no Bunuel

>>8379963
>Katy Perry is objectively shit
Maybe, but it can be appreciated in a patrician way nonetheless.

Art may not be completely subjective, but appreciation is, at least almost so. The work itself has relatively little relevance to its appreciation. If somebody writes very insightful and profound essays on Katy Perry and trashy anime, I'll call him a patrician.

Personally I don't even give a fuck about actually experiencing art, I haven't even seen some of my favorite films in full and reading fiction feels like a goddamn chore so I can finally whip out the analysis. Theory trumps everything else.

>>8380143
>Maybe, but it can be appreciated in a patrician way nonetheless.
I guess, but, at that point, you're the artist. You're only praising yourself.

Recognize that videogames are a god-tier artistic medium and that corporations are holding it back from it's true potential, and it peaked 1998-2006

that's how

>>8377616
Probs supports Kim and Yamyay like A PLEB

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Holy shit there are so many plebs in here.

>>8373339
I love FILTH. It just triggers something inside of me... but I had some experience with noisy industrial so, yeah.

>>8379963
YOU INCLUDE DON DELILLO IN A LIST OF THE 5 GREATEST AUTHORS, YOU ARE A MORON

>>8380359
Fucking normie

>>8379963
>muh bergman
>muh stylized dramaten acting even though it's film
>muh foreigners don't care because it's basically a silent film for them
Why isn't >reading translations a meme with film? It applies much more there.
>>8380421
Also this.

>>8370916
oh okay

>>8380359
If you think Liturgy is any better than Swans or GYBE you should thoroughly re-examine your taste.

>>8379963
Listening to fucking generic staple classical does not make you patrician in any way.

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>>8370795
so does that go well together with this

>>8381610
>generic

>>8374362
it laterally is

>>8381610
>I listen only to hipster obscure classical music, that's how patrish I am

>>8373339
I always found their earliest material to be the most accessible, honestly.

Maybe it was incredibly noisy and "brutal" back in the day but today, while still noisy and brutal, it doesn't have that whole shock value. Its pretty easy listening, there isn't a whole lot to "get" besides allowing yourself to experience the music.

Meanwhile, the new Swans at least needs some patience from the listener.

>>8381610
This is what reveals the music hipster to be a pop culture consumer.

"Generic staple art" is an empty criticism when aimed at established forms of high culture. Bach or Stravinsky aren't famous because of marketing or creating cheap entertainment, they just really were that good. Same goes for literature; its not like Dostoyevsky or Kafka or Goethe or whoever aren't fucking well known.

>>8381794
Everyone knows they are good, never argued against it.
Just listening to the good classics everyone knows doesn't make you patrician, nor does listening to good music nobody knows about.

>>8381816
No, but being a patrician makes you listen to Bach.

>>8381787
It's funny, according to Gira he was kind of fed up with all the meatheads coming to listen to Swans cause they heard it was "the most extreme thing ever, dude". So he started playing quiet acoustic songs live and to that crowd it had the ultimate shock factor.
Also Filth is actually really groovy, something that I have missed when listening to other noise rock releases.

>>8373339
no Glowing Man?

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>>8377622
>The overwhelming majority of 'genres' that have occurred in history all fall under the broken umbrella of 'classical'
Debatable, but in any case I figured he was referring to actual classical (as opposed to all "art music") which at it's very broadest is baroque through romanticism. I doubt the guy I was replying to would call stockhausen patrician, as these fedoras never do.

> People in Bach's age would find all music from 1930-2016 as homogenous as you guys would for early Baroque to Mozart
They really wouldn't though.

>>8381979
This, and stuff like folk music isn't "classical" either way. That stuff is really varied thorough history, true.

The people from Bach's age really wouldn't find a selection of 1900s rock music, jazz music, electronic music etc homogenous at all, though.

There's relatively little shared between The Beatles, Captain Beefheart and John Coltrane and you could really take releases strictly from the 60s to achieve the effect.

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/lit/ thoughts on Jazz?

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it's not enough to listen, read, or watch something; analysis and individual thought have a much higher importance than the passive absorption of media. i may hear beethoven's 9th, but to what extent am i drawing experience and emotion, etc. from the piece? it takes genuine work. listening again and again, reading about musical context, perhaps essays and criticisms. DO NOT, by any means, take the majority's consensus on whether something is good or not for absolute gospel. through critical thinking we can re-examine works of art that have been seen by others as great, terrible, mediocre, not worth listening to, and we may draw OUR OWN conclusions about the piece.

I may think Beethoven's 9th is terrible, I may think it's the greatest symphony ever, or even the greatest piece of music in all of human history, period. BUT, only through critical thinking can we draw genuinely intellectual conclusions about what we see and experience. as lame of a definition as 'patrician' is, it brings up this incredible dilemma in the arts. van gogh was considered a failure in his time, but now has come to be seen to be one of the greatest post-impressionists of all time. why? well, that's for you to figure out, not for me to just tell you.

all that said, a patrician is someone who has extensive and varied; diverse and deep; learned and experimental; ways of looking at the works of art he sees. it isn't enough to simply experience something, to "turn off" your brain and submit yourself to greatness. this is the difference between 'passive' and 'active' experience. read dostoevsky twice, listen to beethoven with your eyes closed, watch kurosawa and welles intently, without any loud, crunchy popcorn. through active and critical thought one can become a true patrician, and a genuine lover of the arts, someone who can experience anything and draw their own conclusions through reason and passion.

don't read something and then look up criticism to tell you how to think; do the work yourself, and read closely, taking notes if you need to, and form your own opinions and theories, nuggets of knowledge that you draw from your experience in reading the piece.

tldr, READ EVERYTHING, and then draw your own reasoned conclusions.

godspeed you spastic teens

Swans are trash

almost everyone itt is using a good/bad dichotomy which completely fucking goes against the entire reasoning behind art; the reasoning being that art is such a complex and human idea, with infinitesimal possibility and subjectivity, that boiling something even as 'simple' as say, taylor swift's "love story", as being inherently 'bad', or 'not patrician', is using the essential STEM idea of objectivity.

the humanities/arts are special and distinct because 2+2 may equal 5, or at least, we may wish them to be. dostoevsky's notes from underground talks about this a lot. natural science says: 2+2=4, but humans cannot cope with the coldness of this fact, thus they wish and can deceive themselves into believing in 2+2=5. humanities are great because of this ambiguity; arts cannot be measured, because a painting, for example, cannot be valued by any calculable value. it depends for its life on other art, and the subjective and passionate experience of humanity. thus, when we say that swans are good, and taylor swift is bad, we are using an essentially STEM idea, which contradicts the very nature of the humanities to which swans/taylor swift are tied into. morality, ethics, the law, human nature are inherently ambiguous, which to me at least, makes it more fun.

in essence, i just wanted to remind everyone that, you cannot reduce art to a number, or the binary system of good/bad, because it subverts the inherent ambiguity of art.

haven't read Nietzsche too much, but beyond good and evil probably talks about this as well.

i love /lit/

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>>8382940
giid post, friendo

>>8383004
kys

>>8383016
ok: taylor swift's self-titled scores a 54/100 and swans' soundtracks for the blind gets an 89/100. you must be right! how could i have possibly known that pitchfork and metacritic held the divine keys to objectively great taste! why, this must be true for literature as well, no? absolutely! shakespeare gets a 94/100 on the goodreads merit meter, hence i should read him instead of ray bradbury, who only got a 72/100. oh well! i guess these critics have been right all along, and critical approaches to shakespeare's plays have been absolutely unanimous and objective in their judgement. contemporary and past critics of shakespeare agreed the entire time on the nature of hamlet's hesitation, yes? so true. so true. why, when goethe critiqued shakespeare in his time, he gave macbeth a 4/5 just like litgirl67 did on goodreads! dang, i guess i really should kill myself. well, so long. make sure to check pitchfork's best new music page to validate your trendiness every morning! cheers!

in all seriousness, fuck off and read some more you cunt. think for yourself, it's not enough to say it.

>>8383045
no rly, kys

>>8380359
haptic void is shit

>>8370851
You just saved me from a life of plebbery. Anon, I am forever in your debt.

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>>8378942

>>8379963
The Beatles contribution to art is far greater than that of Godard's.

Anyone have the theory /lit/ made which uses George Costanza to show how one can justify living life as a plebeian? It had like pleb George and patrish George and how they live together

>>8381605
>liking entry-level "im so unique!!!!" shit

>>8371578
embarrassing

Every time i listen to this album terrible things happen in my life

>>8370795
Books: Finnegan's Wake
Movies: I-Be Area
Music: Whitehouse - Bird Seed

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>>8382907

>>8384803
Liturgy is literally "le thinking mans black metal"

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8VIhIIq-kk

It's night again
Night you beautiful
I please my hunger
On living humans
Night of hunger
Follow it's call
Follow the freezing moon..

Darkness is growing
Eternity opens
The cemetery lights up again
As in ancient times
Fallen souls die behind my steps
By following the freezing moon..

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>>8370795

>>8385987
My nigger. This album is lit as fuck.

>>8382940
Tldr?

>>8386775

in summary

you guys are all faggots, classical and dark ambient , drone are only valid choices.

>>8387779
Everything with lyrics is pleb

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Plibetas