/lit/'s favorite author just made a video about Lord of

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He can't keep getting away with it!

>>8362683

>John, the way of imagining civilization where more advanced societies are on top and less advanced societies are on the bottom is FLATLY WRONG, Green (6:55)

John Green got a beard

>>8363140
He wants to look more refined

>tfw he thinks the book is more of an analysis of good and evil rather than abject chaos and abject order.

I mean its great that he believes that there isn't some kind of animalistic desire for chaos and power within ever human being that is only barely being restrained by the society we exist in. not all of us could live such easy lives to make such a conclusion.

>>8363166
>John Green claims to intensely study the life story of the author and the environment in which they grew up but fails to understand why there are no women in Lord of the Flies

The lack of female characters in Lord of the Flies has nothing to do with sexism or self-censorship to avoid including actual sex scenes. The actual reason is far more basic and obvious to anyone who has actually grown up in the United Kingdom or Australia.

Fancy "public" (private) schools in Great Britain were, and in many cases still are, gender-segregated. This has its roots in sexism, but when educating women became socially acceptable, girl's-only schools were established alongside the boys-only ones. This was done because most fancy British private schools were boarding schools, and most school administrators (and parents) didn't quite like the idea of hormonal pubescent girls and boys living anywhere remotely near each other for extended periods of time, so rather than let girls into the previously male-exclusive schools, entirely new ones were established. This practice, although less common today than it was in the past, persists, partly because parents still have the same fears, partly because studies suggest that children learn better in single-sex environments, and partly because it's become a tradition of sorts. The lack of female characters in Lord of the Flies is a direct result of this - the author didn't include any female characters because doing so would be absolutely absurd from a logical standpoint and completely shatter the suspension of disbelief of his intended audience.

John Green failed to realize this basic fact about English society in the 50's and simply assumed the author was sexist, which should cause any and all credibility he has as a both a literary critic and a history teacher to instantly evaporate. John Green has exposed himself as little more than a pseudo-intellectual paint-by-numbers charlatan, who is only famous because he was able to tap into the angsty teenage girl Twilight market and because he knows how to upload videos onto YouTube.

The fact that John Green instantly associates face paint and spears with Africans says a lot about him. Face paint and spears are perhaps the two things common to most human cultures worldwide and the children are forced to use Stone Age technology to live their lives from the start of the novel because they're stranded on a fucking desert island. John Green's claim that any narrative involving spears, face-paint, and savage behavior is specifically racist against Africans or other victims of British colonisation is patently ridiculous. If anything, the novel rails against the perceived inherent racial superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race by portraying the children as being indistinguishable from the "savages" that the British Empire encountered, and uses the image of a face-painted spear-throwing island savage to drive this point home.

yawn.

>>8362683
But I'm /lit/ as fuck, and my favorite author is Nabokov.

>>8363338
This 100%.

He can't do a simple unbiased critique, and has to make europhobic, useless points.

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I like John's videos, they are comfy even if a bit quirky and opinionated

How do you think the novel plays out if all the characters are girls?

has there ever been a case of a group of girls surviving on their own? It would be interesting to see

>>8363367
Absolutely the fucking same, all human beings are brutal monsters one step away from cannibalism. The pig's head on a stick, though, would be replaced by something evocative of female sexuality, definitely involving period blood.

>>8363382
like a bloody pigs head on a stick

>>8363338
I'd love for John Green to try to get to grips with JG Ballard.

>>8363387
Pig's head in a muddy swamp, more likely. But otherwise, yeah, same book.

>>8362683
He somewhat resembles of DFW.

>>8363338
Spam this to him plz

>>8363338
All true but I'm pretty sure Golding wanted an all-male cast because introducing the issue of sex would have completely changed the book. The idea that he wanted to have a mixed cast but couldn't logistically make it happen is silly.

Agreed on your last paragraph.

>>8363411
If there were women in the book, they would all have been raped and enslaved by Jack's gang. Not because women deserve enslavement or any other /pol/ or /r9k/ shit but because, in the absence of order, the strong dominate the weak (which is the point of Piggy in the novel). Like the anon above said, it's not "good vs. evil," but, rather, "chaos v. order."

John Green underestimates the fragility of civilization.

Finally, if you want to bring in historical context, keep in mind that Golding wrote this book after WW 2, after the Holocaust, after the Rape of Nanking, and during a time in which nuclear annihilation was a very real possibility. Civilization is fragile, man. Green thinks that rule of law grows on fucking trees.

I've never seen one of Green's videos before, but this shit really triggered me. I read this book when I was 12 and it explained so goddamned much, both about children in particular and people in general.

>Writer: Alex Soloski
John doesn't even write the script.

>>8363367
pretty much this >>8363382
I don't know about the period blood tho

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>And this points at something really problematic
actually said the absolut madam

>>8362683

>look at comments
>most of them disfavour the video
>some of the most liked comments argue against the video
>the actual video still has 90% likes over dislikes

either
1. John Green's fanbase just love him so much that they'll disagree with him intensly but still love him.
2. John Green's fanbase really love it, but they don't want to interfere with the sexist manbabbies in the comments, so they resort to just liking the video.
3. The likes are FAKE

>>8363563
>And then there is the complete lack of female characters
HE DID IT AGAIN
i don't know what i expected his wife if feminitso but jesus fuck

>>8363140
Yes, he's been married for a while.

>>8363423
Yeah seriously I even joked while studying this in school. The book would have been way too dark for students (was it actually written to be read by children, i cant remember?)

>>8363423
This

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What did she mean by this?

>>8363338
John Green categorically btfo.

>>8363684
I'm talking out of my ass here but I imagine Golding was one of those writers who believed that child lit should be good enough to be enjoyed by adults.

>>8363732
She means a marketing executive advised her to praise the film's source material so people would go to see it

>>8363728
>>8363732
I can see the infantilization of a culture that once produced Faust happening before my eyes

I don't think he made a single valid point in that whole video. I never take part in Green hate threads but that video was just... Ignorant. He has no idea what children are capable of. Kids don't understand that what they're doing is bad and that's half the point. Going on about good and evil like he just stepped out of church, what the fuck.

>>8363662
kek

>>8363423
Shh be careful anon, the correct term is women are vulnerable not "weak". Feminists tend to be triggered by that pairing. Just a lititle help for your everyday life.

>why are piggy and ralph still """""Civilized?""""""

nigga what

Piggy and Ralph are one of the only characters that still have ties to old civilization. Literally, his fucking inhaler is a metaphor for this it's so obvious

How did he interpret the ending of the book so wrong?

>>8363662

Savage! xD

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Not even gonna watch the video, but I found this comment funny.

>>8363867
This. People are complaining about how they savagely kill a female pig by sticking a spear up its ass shows sexism because the only female like things that are allowed in the book are sexually brutalized. But that just misses the reason why the author decided to use all boys in the first place.

>>8364051
It's not just a pig, it's a woman.

>>8364065
This is probably bait but doesn't this still go with the theme that evil people with power will use it to hurt others who dont? If girls were in it perhaps they would be brutalized in the same way along with the piggy and Ralph who were also obviously powerless in the situation. The only way to reconfile the gender issue would be to make a similar story with just girls or maybe mostly girls imo.

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>>8364148
It's a horror movie, so obviously not the same thing, but this is kind of analogous. A bunch of women go spelunking together; down in the caves, without civilization, repressed desires and resentments come to the forefront and wreck everything.

>>8362683
"John dislikes Lord of the Flies? For me, it is just above better than average UNTIL the very ending when the external viewer makes the shocking reality about the radical, almost primal nature of humans in himself from just looking at what little boys did."

Wow that really made me think

>>8363338
Same shit with Heart of Darkness in the last paragraph desu. Everyone calls Conrad racist but the entire point of Kurtz is to show that the allegedly superior white man is no better than the subjugated savages. Hence the dichotomy of the two rivers (the Thames and the African river that forms the core of the narrative) being juxtaposed but ultimately superimposed by the end of the novel. Civilization is painted out to be a fantasy, a form of mentally establishing oneself as better out of fear of the dark recesses endemic to the human condition.

>>8363367
You can read it for yourself, a strong empowered woman wrote an intersectional feminist version senpai
https://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Queens-Libba-Bray/dp/0439895987/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470417004&sr=8-1&keywords=beauty+queens

>actual discussion on lit
what manner of black magic is this

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>>8364214
/lit/ is united in its hatred of John Green above almost all other sectarian bullshit

also
>tfw you will never read post-office literature

>>8364175
That movie still scares me

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>>8363338
delete this

What the flying fuckety fuck, how do you even come to conclusion that Lord of the Flies is sexist, and that the pig scene was "sexualized"?

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>>8364259
I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed

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I'm John Green and this is Crash Course Buttplug History
Now, we all know that buttplugs are used today for pleasure, but what were they originally used for.
"Oh, I know I know. They tried to reverse shit."
Oh me from the past, how naive you were. What they really were used for was too retain water when people from the past were suffering from dysentery. Dysentery is a disease that causes heavy flow and can quickly lead to dehydration. It was as important then and as it is now that we clog up those passages that water so commonly seeps out of.
Now that we've discussed the purpose of buttplugs lets talk about what they actually are.
"Oh, Mr. Green Mr. Green! It's when you have a piece of poop slightly sticking out your anus or 'poop purgatory' as I like to call it."
NO me from the past , that's very gross! What a "buttplug" was made of actually varied in different parts of the world. In places like Africa they would use wet dirt (more commonly called mud) while in Southern Europe (more specifically Italy and Croatia) they would use garlic cloves or wooden mallets. And in places like Japan they would have specialty carved plugs that would honor certain festivals. They're truly a site to be seen.
Thanks thought bubble.
What I find really interesting, and very unifying of all peoples, is the need to shove shit up our anuses to stop the flow of water.
What's that? The mystery compartment.
And in today's mystery compartment we have a cup full of diarrhea with the word "dysentery" written on it.
This ones for you, dysentery, because without you we wouldn't have this satisfying, and exciting, form of pleasure.
And with that see you next week for our discussion on whether butt plugs count as BDSM.
See ya.

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>>8364301

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>>8362683

>Literary criticism was once a respectable field
>Now this

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>>8364301

Critical theory is to literature what ISIS is to civilization

>>8363338
Post this on the video or someone else do it please.

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What a pseudo.

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>>8364211
That Q&A...

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>>8364451
Disgusting

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>>8364451
This guy is such a hypocrite. Literally the only reason he defends Twilight is because he thinks being contrarian makes him superior, and he wants the progressive points.

Then if there's something popular like NCIS he calls it lazy. He has no consistent values or integrity; he just wants to be an intellectual-sounding contrarian.

>>8364317
What emotion is that face supposed to give?

>>8364500
>Jonathan Franzen is the ceiling of literary quality.

>>8364500

WOW.

I MEAN WOW.

YOU FINALLY CRACKED IT.

Congratulations, you've figured out every public figure in existence.

>>8364555
>e-every public figure is a pseudo-intellectual, it's not just me!
Go back to tumblr John

>JOHN GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN

>>8364497
Shut your mouth you sexist pig

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>>8364546
Well he's clearly checked his privilege to an acceptable amount

>>8363338
>>8364209
Start a youtube channel, you'll make big bucks

>>8364555
Not everyone famous is illiterate.

>>8364592
>Which egomaniac said it: Donald Trump or novelist Jonathan Franzen?

roasted

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>>8364601
Talking to two people fampai. I've considered it but I don't have the production capability to start up a channel and i'm not gonna beg for money on kickstarter or whatever.

>>8364500

>schmaltzy cancer porn
>"useful to humans"

Yeah, maybe as kindling.

What an utterly idiotic way of viewing literature. If someone enjoyed reading it, guess fucking what? It was useful to a human! John Green is the exact kind of middle brow idiot that fell for Wallace's fraudulent intellectual posturing.

Fuck these threads, they always make me so angry.

>>8364451
What about feminists who attack her for promoting a masquerade disguised as female empowerment? And he obviously hasnt seen the shitstorm against male comic and fantasy writes who do the same

>>8364698

>What an utterly idiotic way of viewing literature.

eh, if books weren't useful to my life, I wouldn't bother reading them at all. You completely distorted his point around too, he said that he prefered usefulness to beauty, and to "enjoy" something is a much bigger indicator that that something is beautiful to the reader than useful. Useful things need not bring enjoyment, but beautiful things normally do.

From all the retarded things Greene said, that was the least problematic to me.

>>8364758

If you're saying that fiction provides a value beyond enjoyment, you've really got your work cut out for you in substantiating that claim.

The novel is useful only for keeping smart people from killing themselves. That's it. The state has been perfected sometime in the 1960's. It doesn't require our input anymore. Consent can be manufactured. We will be made to do the right thing by people who know better. The only thing we could possibly do is fuck the whole thing up, and thankfully that's getting harder and harder to imagine. People who dream of revolution are just dissatisfied by their bank accounts, and deeply ignorant about how geopolitics work.

There's a whole whack of shit I have to say to explain why I'm right, so I'm just gonna stop here because I don't have the time to get into it on a post that's gonna disappear in a few hours anyway.

>>8364434
I've just posted it. I also insulted his beard

>>8364831
Jokes on you. I'm deeply ignorant of my bank account and dissatisfied about how geopolitics work.

>>8362683
I didnt know who this fag was until i started browsing history related videos about rome, i remember he called out the title "the great" for having misogynistic implications or some shit when talking about Alexander the great. The guy even looked like a complete faggot.

how does he have a following again? is this the same john green who wrote those shitty meme books suburban teenagers?

>>8363338
Someone tweet this to him

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>>8364831
>The novel is useful only for keeping smart people from killing themselves. That's it.

get a load of this edgy teenager

>>8364872
Yup. The same one.

Hes got a following because his shit is simple or simplified so any teenage intellectual could understand

>>8364902
I posted it to the vid.

I can't watch his Youtube videos because of the way he always finishes his sentences with this weird growling sound. It makes me want to hurt myself.

>>8364831
>If you're saying that fiction provides a value beyond enjoyment, you've really got your work cut out for you in substantiating that claim.

Are you baiting? I've got no need to "substantiate" that claim, since it's my subjective experience which is in cause. Books add value in my life beyond "enjoyment" simply because they teach things about myself, and make my self-consciousness grow. It's useless to "prove" that to anyone since I know that subjective truth to exist in myself, and anyone who's not a complete autist would see how even considering making an argument about that is completely retarded. It would be like trying to "prove" that I don't like something or that I like something else.


If you truly only read books for enjoyment, I honestly feel bad for you, man.

>>8363338
I might make a youtbe account just to post this

>>8363338
Just posted this on the video.

Good post lad

>>8363442
>(((Soloski)))

>>8362683
I'm fucking triggered watching this, holy shit

Now I know why all the hate for him is deserved

>>8363662
jon grean on suicide watch

HOLY SHIT.

Literature and thought not according to modern liberalism propaganda matrix truly is dead.

>>8364500
He defends Twilight because he's a creep that likes pandering to girls half his age.

>>8364540
bewilderment.

>>8364940
>ays finishes his sentences with this weird growling sound. It makes me wan
FUCK! The way he speaks annoys me so much. I've never heard someone speak so obnoxiously.

>>8362683
What a cuck!

>>8365896
Drama queen.

>>8362683
>thinks Golding was teaching really bad students

Protip: Middle school (and in some cases late elementary school) savagery is not a meme.

>>8364940
>>8366220
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and it might not be intentional on his part, but I think it's because he wants to talk about something while also distancing himself from it. Like a parent explaining what you did wrong, but also wishing you weren't so stupid to have done it in the first place. Seems like whenever he's explaining something that happened in the book, or an idea he thinks the book is pushing, he uses this growl just in case you might think he liked or agreed with any of it. It's sort of condescending, sarcastic, disgusted and irritated all at the same time; there's probably a good word for this, but I can't think of it.

>things go really wrong
>like a group of boys from the school choir led by a kid named jack become overwhelmed with bloodlust and they dismember one boy simon when they mistake him for a mythic beast and then they kill ralph's sidekick piggy for basically no reason

why is he misrepresenting the narrative so aggressively? i get that he doesn't like it, but he's leaving out the fact that the book portrays a gradual and nuanced DESCENT into savagery and just telling his retarded teen audience that multiple characters just decide "lol me caveman now!"

>>8362683
John Greene is a poised, resplendent, genius author. His words are therapeutic.

You are all epistolary. You think your posts are better literature than his in the abstract sense. You're all trash. ;_;

>>8363809
ralph also doesn't remain completely civilized, green pretends he's spotless for the sake of his shit argument
he joins in the dances

>>8368363
>You are all epistolary.

What?

>>8368325
He even puts on a silly voice when he's quoting from the book. It's just childish.

>>8368363
put down that thesaurus and just head back to tumblr where you can cry without being called a faggot because you're being real faggot

>>8367677
this
i wonder about green's schooling
my school wasn't particularly bad in terms of actual physical fights but anyone that spent extended periods as a member of a mob of boys knows how cruel the group can be

>>8368407
I remember one of my teachers freshman year of high school just telling us "individually you guys are pretty smart, but when you get together you all share one brain and it's all bad"

>>8368586
I remember people losing teeth and being hospitalised and teachers being too afraid to intervene.

>>8368594
Not all of us were so privileged to grow up in the ghetto, RayRay

i'm from /mu/ and don't know much about /lit/ so correct me if i'm wrong, but is this man the /lit/ equivalent of Anthony Fantano?

>>8368644
more like this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBI8KvLgLeo

>>8368644
Kill yourself

>>8368644
better than food is our fantano

jeez

>>8368644
no, green is rich and famous

>>8368644
I don't know much about /mu/ but do you guys have a shallow cringey children's entertainer everyone memes all the time because he's so terrible?

>>8363338
Include me in the screencap guys!

>>8370271
shut up piggy, I've got the conch

Golding fully believed that English people “are the most noble and wise of all people” he just thought that they could descend to the level of mere “savages” if they were taken out of their time honoured structured hierarchies.

The boys decent into evil savagery is marked by their adoption of racial signifiers, they even paint their faces black with charcoal for fuck sake. “war paint”, chanting, dancing in circles, nakedness - this is how Golding portrays a descent into bestial, murderous immorality, straight out of the racist imperialist cannon. The “bad” boys are called “the tribe” who answer to “the chief”, described as “painted savages” juxtaposed with the assembly and the conch shell of western liberal democracy. Equating indigenous people with out of control children is straight out of the imperialist playbook.

Lord of the Flies is a white supremacist text.

>>8371437
There's nothing wrong with this though.

>>8371437
>>You can't potray savages as savages

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>>8364941

>b... books teach me things about myself, guys...
>they make my self-conciousness grow...
>they teach me how to be a fucking human being...

I'm glad you could take a break from your MFA homework to make this post.

>>8370189
We have a few

>>8364500
it always hurts me when he mentions DFW

>>8364451
i think the ideological cuck meme is tiresome but this guy fits it pretty well

>>8371437
What's wrong with any of that?

>>8371437
Explain exactly how acknowledging that it's only a social construction that separates the allegedly superior white imperialists from the allegedly inferior savages is supportive of a colonialist narrative.

>>8363338
will he ever recover from this?

>>8371437

>Equating indigenous people with out of control children is straight out of the imperialist playbook.

Straight out of the news, you mean. They really are like infants, they only respond the to the most basic human urges: hunger, lust, anger.

>>8368650
>that overwhelming desire to punch this turd bowl in the dick