>Mom remembers reading gogol, pushkin, dostoevsky in elementary

>>8361604
1984 is a good introduction tho

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>tfw had to read Quixote when i was 14 years old
Are english kids retarded?

>>8361604

that's what a communist revolution does to your educational system, m8. Imagine what kids will read if Trumpie gets the office.

>>8361604
Shouldn't have moved to the United States of Degeneracy.

>>8361604
SAME

>>8361604

Farenheit 451 is redpilled as fuck

>>8361604
the only hope for the american child is self lead curiosity and good guidance from adults. the school system will fail them a thousand times for every single success. you have an obligation to your little brother to get him into literature, my friend. if you don't, it's no one's fault but your own, since you obviously are the only one who can do it at this rate.

>>8361620
No but our educational system tries to make us so
this is because we are at the forefront of capitalism

>>8361621
All Jungvolk learn to recite the Hallowed Tome from memory, it's like the Qu'ran in Muslim Countries

>>8361604
So if your mom is so fucking well-educated why didn't your little brother read Gogol, Pushkin, and Dostoevsky in elementary school?

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>>8361648
this is accurate

what's the point of reading lit like gogol or dostoevsky as a kid? you don't have life experience to understand what's in it.

>>8361648
this is accurate, the anglo lives in a more advanced state of capitalism

Americans are so good they can afford to waste on trash.

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>>8361604
my senior english class was taught by a Vietnamese-symphasizing libertarian women who had us read the Alchemist (apparently because it was her favorite book), 1984 and Escape from Camp 14, roleplay as Edward Snowden for a class project, and then watch and debate the V for Vendetta film for our final exam.

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>>8361621
>tfw Trump declares reading and literature a tool of the Islamic Marxists and has ever book except The Art of the Deal destroyed

My dad forced me to read Joyce and Shakespeare as a 3 year old. I now study particle physics at CERN. Don't know if it's related.

>>8361712
>watch and debate the V for Vendetta film
>not the superior comic
Fucking women, they ruin everything.

>>8361717
Rule 3, please go away underage brainwashed pseud.

>>8361717
>>8361621
Intelligent people don't actually believe this

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>>8361717
tfw shillary declares all literature a tool of da prividledged white male capitalist patriarchy and has every book except, idk, the Transgender BLM Qur'an destroyed

>>8361604
John Green is shit, but what's wrong with 1984 and 451?

>>8361717
In fact, I'm voting Trump because I love Literature and Western civilization. Shakespeare, Orwell, Joyce. all gone... How could you trow it all all away? All we love is in risk of being destroyed, subsumed by the mongrel dark hordes of ignorance... the barbarians are at the gates... Trump is our Last Hope, Our Charles Martel, our Lionheart, our Robert E. Lee. If called to do so I shall lie down my life for Trump... For Europa!

>>8361695
I came to say this. You can technically read Ulysses at age 11, doesnt mean you'll get anything from it

>>8361604
Fuck off sam

>>8361833
>Our Charles Martel, our Lionheart, our Robert E. Lee
one of these things is not like the others...

>>8361621
Yes because our educational system has been doing such a wonderful job with the liberals in control for years now.

>>8361833

>wants to preserve 'high' culture
>votes for Trump
>ends comment saying he's ready to die for another continent


.

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>>8361833
Did you also write this masterpiece?

>>8361855
Communism has nothing to do with liberalism you stupid lolbert.

>>8361871
Liberals is what they are, no one called them communists.

>>8361604
This isn't impressive, most old people who boasted about those type of books they had to read in elementary never really took it in, as it was beyond their comprehension at the time. Sure, you can read those books at a young age, but the chances are you wouldn't read them again, and later on say you already them as a child in a show of vanity.

In a way, it's probably better for younger people to start off with more pulpy work, then work their way up as they mature in age.

>>8361695
what is this life experience that I would need to be able to fully appreciate Gogol's say... the Nose?
At what age do you imagine I'd have acquired this much vaunted life experience necessary to appreciate literature?

Should I have frolicked in a field of daffodils or marvelled at the call of a lark before tackling pre victorian poetry? Perhaps I ought to go to my local zoo and wear an albatross around my neck

How many trips across 19th century industrial France do you think is appropriate before I start reading and truly understanding Zola ?

I've never actually been to spain, nor did I fight in the civil war, do you think I'll still be alright reading literature that takes place there ? Will I catch the deep symbolism that is ever present between the lines?

I was reading Donald by Browning last night, even though I never hiked in the Scottish highlands,never lived in a bothy, never was face to face with a stag, and never tumbled off a cliff of the aforementioned highlands? do you think I have enough life experience to be able to appreciate the poem?

etc.

Such an obtuse thing of you to say, honestly.

>>8361906
>what is this life experience that I would need to be able to fully appreciate Gogol's say... the Nose?
>what is this life experience
Reading Dostoevsky's Doppelganger book or Andersen's Shadow story, depending on how retarded you are.

>>8361833
What did Joyce say about nationalism? He wanted to fly by that net?

You've legit never read any of the authors you namedrop if they're your ideological justification for voting Trump.

>>8361929

Joyce kind of blurs the line. His attitude is definitely that of non serviam and he mocks Irish nationalists and catholicism in Portrait, essentially his autobiography, but Stephen also btfo of the "United States of Europe" and feminist ideologues even worse. There's that whole passage where he refuses to sign the leftist petition and his bros say "Marx is a cod". In Ivy Day in the Commitee Room his sympathies seem to lie with nationalists more than the rest of the politicians but nationalism is given a doomed, hopeless hue.

>>8361620
Life is unfair.

>>8361620
It was at 16yo in our school (Argentina). Feels good.

I mean 1984 isn't bad or anything... it's just kind of simple

That being said there's no way he's actually reading John Green in schools, is there?

>>8362073

In my day, I was class of 2011, only one or two of my english teachers weren't enormous plebs and whenever they had discretion to choose a book entirely out of their own choice it was a disaster.

Probably what happened here.

Orwell's a good author though. I don't understand the meme here.

>Trying to get working class kids to read Jane Eyre

Why did they even bother I wonder? Some of these kids couldn't handle auto shop, how were they supposed to summon the impulse control to plow through Jane Eyre? Even I think that book is boring.

Who knows what they're reading now, probably something much easier and 'diverse.' Maybe a comic book like Persepolis.

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>>8362031
In Ulysses, Stephen quotes Marx and also takes on a more or less revolutionary stance on the nationalist question when confronted with Haynes, a Britisher.

Joyce himself was a socialist and actually had a few articles published in Sinn Fein papers.

His feelings on the Irish question were complex, but it's safe to say he was opposed to British imperialism and that, while he was in favor of an Irish Free State, did not want it to devolve into a patriotic, reactionary institution a la England.

But on no planet would Stephen Daedalus support Donald Trump lmao.

I graduated HS in 2015.

In my school (Canada), we read:

Grade 9: A Tale of Two Cities, The Chrysalids
Grade 10: Lolita, Brave New World
Grade 11: 1984 (my teacher was not present for half of this year so this was all we read)
Grade 12: The Trial, the Stranger, The Heart is a Lonely Hunter

The Russians are too long to actually study in a grade-school academic context. Same goes for Joyce.

I guess we could've fit more Hemingway in.

>>8362092
His comment on why Irish never persecuted the Jews is however startlingly relevant considering Europe and Muslims.

>>8362089
Class has nothing to do with it you middlebrow mediocrity.

>>8362100
homeschooled here, had to read

>paradise lost
>all the parts of the divine comedy
>the plague
>1984
>leviathan
>walden
fucking awful on every level
>homers epics
>federalist and anti federalist papers
to be fair only selections from both
>spirit of the law
>brave new world
>middlemarch
>the republic
>city of god
>confessions
>anabasis
>witness by Whittaker Chambers

probably more that i dont remember from high school.

>>8362115

I don't think you know poor people like I do. They're not like Good Will Hunting. School for them is one long desperate struggle to teach them to sit still and behave so that they can hold down jobs as adults.

The most pathetic thing was when some of last year's grads tried to sneak back onto school property and got chased off. You should have seen the pained, bewildered looks on their faces. The best years of their lives were over and they realized it all too late.

>>8361644
This, a million times over.

American reporting. From what I remember, teachers here are lazy, burnt out kid-wranglers. There's no joy in either teaching or learning. When you find a good teacher, and the one I found was an English teacher, you remember them forever. Most of the time teachers here just do the bare minimum, and only get excited or do more for the student when they seem especially gifted. If they they seem troubles or challenged, they write them off to another teacher who specializes in handling them. I know some kids need special attention, but it's sad. Kids don't want to learn, and the teachers don't really enjoy teaching. What do you expect of this country. It makes me sad.

>>8362109
>why Irish never persecuted the Jews
why

>>8361621
Your reply makes no sense, his mother was probably educated in the Soviet Union and his brother in Russia or any other capitalist country.

>>8361833
stop these false flag posts RIGHT NOW

>>8362115
top kek

>>8362305
I find that people generally say this for larger schools. I went to a very small public school and most of the teachers were great. Almost universally they were very intrested in what they were teaching and they would get visibly upset if they even thought that someone wasn't trying to learn and do whatever they could to try to encourage them.

It was pretty swish. Though that doesn't mean that they weren't tied down by standardized testing and education requirements. There were quite a few of them who were very vocal about not being allowed to teach the way they would like to becuase there job is more about preparing students to pass the regional and national tests than it is to actually teach.

I imagine it's the same for a lot of teachers in the US, either they go to a school and get disillusioned because no matter what they do the students don't care about what they're teaching. Or they get jaded by the bounds placed on them by standardized education.

>>8362322
Because they never let the jews in

>>8361621
Grats on baiting so many /pol/lit newfag autists

>>8361722
>>8361807
>>8361807

A country's civilisation zeitgeist is characterised by those that lead it. Trump's style of speech in his demagoguery is barely coherent.

>>8361833
r u a fukn returd or a b8r

>>8361833
Gr8 b8 m8

>>8361906
To truly appreciate Moby Dick you'd need to have slept with your mother, however :)

>>8362109
>he doesn't know Joyce was being ironic when writing Deasy

>>8361604
Dystopian novels are the best kind of YA literature.
Its as bad everywhere else. In Spain we don't read the classics, we mostly read YA fanfic form talentless spanish writters with painfully obvious moral statements.
The closest thing to classic spanish literature I've read there was Lazarillo and Don Juan Tenorio.

>>8363527
Many a truth is spoken in jest

>>8361717
fuck that would be great

literacy is a disease and turns you into a shambling low testosterone zombie with bad teeth and recessed maxilla

>>8361833
I was ready to give a response but I realized I would be hooked by that bait

>>8362289
>Working class literature isn't a thing
>Who is Delaney, Silitoe, Dickens, Greenwood, Barstoe, Osborne, Hines, Gaskell

>>8363530
Don't even study Don Quixote there?

>>8361604
In our school we could choose anything we wanted. I read lord of the rings and plato. Most picked YA books.

>>8361604
This is that mde guy right? What happened?

>>8361604
Parents should have put your brother in Catholic school.

>>8364002
I think I remember another spanish anon in a different thread say that the spanish in Don Quixote is old, kinda like how Shakespeare reads to a modern english speaker

>mother read Joyce at a relatively young age
>later on actually got into his work and read all the available translations + the originals, of course

>this was, largely, because her birthday is 16 June so she got interested because of that
kek.

She got pretty good taste later on so I suppose she'd have discovered Joyce at some point no matter what but still...

>>8361604
Because there is no point making kids hate literature by giving them books they dont have the ability to comprehend?

>>8361604
Because the capitalist class wants to keep the proletariat dumb and subservient

>>8361643
This. It shits all over modern leftism and no one seems to care. Guess it's good, or it would've taken out of the school program already.

>>8364287
This, but I wouldn't say all those are horrible picks of books for a kid.

Don't underestimate them that much.

Still tho, forcing kids to read almost anything might be a bad idea. Just give them enjoyable books when they're children and maybe recommend something ~respectable~ when they're teens or so.

I'd avoid 1984 and all the other well-known anti-totalitarian dystopian works though, it is horrible how much they're used to justify retarded political stances. It'd be better if fewer people knew how to quote animal farm or 1984. I'm going to punch my nose the next time I hear someone oppose emancipatory politics with "uh huh all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

>>8364296

Bradbury was a god-tier short story writer, and F451 is easily not his best work. I seriously have no idea why F451 is still read in highschools, I think Bradbury was just a big meme back in the 60s for being such an endearing sci-fi writer that the school system felt the need to appeal to kids in order to get them to read. Not only that but the book is widely misinterpreted as an anti-nazi, anti-facist book when it's not specifically, I think the book burning in the 1940's is only what inspired it. I have no doubts that as soon as someone in charge gets wind of the book criticizing PC culture and intellectual coddling it will be taken off the reading list.

>>8361604
except... the USSR didn't have elementary schools.

and... although some gogol & pushkin was introduced in the early grades, dostoevsky wasn't assigned until high school-equivalent grades

>>8362092

Joyce was stuck between a rock and a hard place, really.

This isn't bait, but although he didn't like a great deal of what the British were doing in Ireland, he did see himself as more British than Irish. In fact, he insisted upon his British passport/nationality.

Much more of a British author than an Irish one. A British author who happened to be born in Ireland. Anglo-Irish, even, that forgotten nationality.

>>8364333

Really though, who gives a fuck? Irish people and British people are so genetically similar, as an American I don't understand all this hatred between different European cultures (other than historical context and terrible injustices, and religious idiocy) but still.

>>8361620
I'm happy that my shit public teachers never had the chance to ruin any actually good literature for me.

>>8362092
Stephen in Ulysses doesn't represent the mature Joyce.

>>8364343

>Irish people and British people are so genetically similar, as an American I don't understand all this hatred between different European cultures

That would probably get you killed in some parts of (Northern) Ireland desu.

Yanks always say careless shit here.

t. Northern Irish

IIRC, the books I had to read in highschool were

>Divine Comedy (Inferno only)
>Iliad (only selected chapters)
>Count of Monte Cristo (Abridged version)
>Lord of the Flies
>The Prince
>Walden
>The Bell jar
>1984
>Scarlet Letter
>Night (obligatory holocaust book)

Not bad, but not great either. I find it strange how much schools across america always include 1984 in their curriculum

>>8364343
>genetics
uh, genetics would seem an even poorer reason

its pretty easy to be mad over historical things, though.

as a northern european, it is easy to get over it, too; maybe the Russians did kill my countrymen, but we were allied with the fucking nazis so maybe we sort of deserved it

>all my teachers were pretty shit except for my math and science teachers

That's it, I'm officialyl a #stemcuck now

>>8364355

It's fucking true though, aside from differences of culture and accent I seriously couldn't tell you the fuck apart other than you guys have lots of gingers.

You guys hold on to history like a bunch of rebel flag waving southerners.

>>8364381

>You guys hold on to history like a bunch of rebel flag waving southerners.

So...you're saying we're on the right side of history?

>>8364381
Why the fuck would genetics be any better a reason m8

Culture will always matter more

>>8361604
>Dad remembers having to read Marx in high school
>Dad tells me it was boring and nobody ever payed attention in class

lel

>tfw you were required to read great works of literature like Hamlet or Faust at school
>tfw you had tons of time for that
>tfw you didn't because you were an oblivious piece of shit

I don't know if it's just me, but sometimes you need some maturity to appreciate the importance of things.

Fratty, chill buck Mulligan came from the stairhead, bearing a MAGA cap

>>8364395
this desu senpai

>>8364381
typical american detected

>>8361604
Capitalism

>>8364343
>stop fighting you're all basically the same anyway, we're all basically the same!

I know that feel senpai

>>8363459
Why did you cited me? Because i said that women ruin everything on another context?
God, the shills are stronger than ever.

>>8363994

Those men are a minority. Most of them wrote decades ago when cheap novels were still sold as popular entertainment. The working class boys at my school dreamed of becoming minor league hockey players or rappers, not the next Dickens.

>>8361833
If you're a real person who really thinks this, I love you.

>>8364356
>I find it strange how much schools across america always include 1984 in their curriculum

Well, they're the good guys obviously. You have to show how evil communism is and how superior the land that live in is compared to it.

>>8365437
·Tip´s fedora·

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>>8362100
I graduated HS in 2015

In my school (U.S.), we read (brace your self for uncaring teenager-core):

Grade 9: Of Mice and Men, Romeo and Juliet
Grade 10: Animal farm, Clockwork Orange (book report)
grade 11: Things Fall Apart, Kite Runner, some other Hispanic novel that I forget sadly because it was non-fiction and I was ignorant af
Grade 12: All I did, was a book report on Casino Royale kek

I took shitty slacker english classes though. Man I was such a piece of shit in highschool

>>8365509
Fedora tippers are stereotypically libertarians, dude

currently in year 12 and studying drylands, the tempest, the crucible, the picture of dorian gray and the collector

> there are people who actually want to ruin good literature by having it forced down people's neck through the mandatory education system

>>8366810
That wouldn't ruin it.

I'm from the UK, my English education was terrible, mostly because the selection of texts was awful. I cannot speak for everyone, but from others I've talked to they say pretty much the same thing.

Up to and including GCSE (after which English isn't mandatory; I didn't pick it up further on but that's beside the point) the texts we used consisted of (in no particular order):

-Selected Tom Hardy works, which was one short story and probably three poems
-The Tempest (but we only got through about the first third)
-Lord of the Flies
-Johnny and the Dead, some shitty Terry Pratchet book (again, we only got through the first third or so for some reason)
-Around ten selected poems (all of which were from the last 50 years, the majority by women of colour, I know this is a meme but it's genuinely true in my case)

Each of these took up one year, and were the last five years of secondary school, the first two years can't really be called English, they were more shitting around doing nothing in particular, occasionally we'd go to the school library and use the computers. That's right, we would go to the fucking library and use the fucking computers, god forbid we should read something.

This was literally my English education. Forget grammar or syntax, forget studying good prose, forget the classics, forget conversing or debating, forget having a reading list, forget the western canon this was LITERALLY my English education. I'm fucking pissed when I see other people, usually in other countries, having these wonderful in depth literature educations and then comparing mine to them.

The English education system in the UK of all places is one of the most fucked up in the entire world.

>>8366810
I always found the best model to be this: give the students a list of books out of which they can pick whatever they want to read.

That way the lazy plebs will pick something that sounds flashy, easy or short and the more motivated can read classics if they want to.

Might not work for the youngest of kids, but for teens over the age of 12, it was neat.

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>>8361620
>>8362062
>mfw el Cid & Martín Fierro

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>>8361604
Gommunizm>Gapidilizm

>>8364156
is old but is not hard, people are fucking crybabies, most editions have footnotes that solve that "problem"

>>8361620
We had to read Shakespeare. OP's cherry picking and being hyperbolic.

>>8361885
You did.

>>8364376
all my teacher were shit except for the history and english teachers, both only teached on my class for 1 year, but it was a little gateway to patrician hood.
the female english teachers were pleb as fuck.

>>8366999
You had a shit schooling. Debate and studying prose is what you're meant to do, and it's what I did. That said, there's nothing wrong with studying simpler works for secondary.

We had a slightly better list --
>Romeo & Juliet + Much Ado
>Lord of the Flies
>Animal Farm (I have no idea why)
>Of Mice and Men
Then in 6th we did better stuff like McCarthy and Macbeth, mixed in with worse stuff like Attwood.

It's good that you didn't do grammar or syntax; that's useless (only people with actual problems can't grasp it through reading, and they need "targetted support").

>>8366810

Never underestimate Human laziness.

We should all have a taskmaster until at least our 18th year. It's amazing how infantalized people are nowadays - there are people in their 20s & 30s less mature than the average teenager from only a few decades ago.

>>8367174
That's a fucking stupid way to teach.

How the fuck do you sort out lessons, faggot?

>>8361906
You're using a false equivalence, and not a very good one

>>8361643
>a book is good if it agrees with my politics

>>8361833
10/10

complete reading list for my Canadian public highschool education grades 8 - 12 :

There Will Be Wolves - Karleen Bradford
To Kill a Mockingbird - Harper Lee
The Last Book in the Universe - Rodman Philbrick
Brave New World - Aldous Huxley

we didn't even do shakespeare......

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>>8361604
>well educated mother
>takes no hand in the education of her children and lets them subsist on the teachings of the state
Her schooling can't have been that good.

>>8364343
Demented Catholics, what can you do.

>>8366810
It depends on how people perceive education. In the US for example the kids certainly resent it, I wouldn't want good books associated with a curriculum everyone hates on a visceral level.

I remember being left to my own devices in elementary school. I would read every book in my class library before the end of the school year. I can still recall some of the trash that entertained me then, books like the Shiloh series...

>>8368771
>Shiloh is a Newbery Medal-winning children's novel by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor published in 1991. The 65th book by Naylor, it is the first in a quartet about a young boy and the title character, an abused dog.

What a ride at 7 years old.

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>>8361833

>>8369189
thanks esforest.

>>8361833
new copypasta?

>>8365625

fedora tippers are self-righteous nerds who go out of the way to be wet blankets about something. you can apply fedora to a lot of things on this board.

>>8368771

>I would read every book in my class library before the end of the school year.

Me too. There was a huge stack of them at the back of the classroom near the radiator and the windows. Just a bunch of random paperbacks from various decades.

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>>8361604
>had to teach 8th graders some retarded YA book about a girl who steals diamonds
>then had to teach them fucking Sold and The Absolutely True Diary of a Part Time Indian
After four years, when I finally reached my student teaching session, I realized how retarded education is and dropped the fucking degree.

>grow up reading a lot and get reputation among friends as the guy who could eat through books like breakfast
>move to mexico when i was ten
>language and culture shock puts reading on a pause that i never climbed out of
>suddenly I had to read medieval spanish prose like lazarillo de tormes
>now struggle to read anything deeper than a puddle

Fuck my life.