Is it even possible to be a patrician if you didn't go here?

yes but you need to be rich

poorfags cant be /lit/ and goign to harvard or an equivalent school helps you on that path.

>>8312882
Yes. The only education that's worth shit is the self-taught.

>>8312882
Why not go for grad school there anon? I had a very /lit/ teacher who went UMass Boston for undergrad but then went to Harvard for his grad degree

>going to a uni that's less than 400 years old
babby university for babbies ayy lmao

>>8312891

Define rich.

Also... Lots of "patricians" from other countries...

Also... Lots of "non-patricians" from there as well...

>>8312882
>he takes the patrician memes seriously
Kill you are self to be honest family

>>8312911
too late, already in a grad program (at a different ivy, but still)

>>8312941
>le katana and fedora man.jpg

>>8312964
If it's not Princeton or Brown, you may still be able to be patrician. What major?

>>8312985
neither of those
law

>>8312882
ivy league is full of plebs tbgh

>>8313011
Oh, that's fine then. Law is a pretty patrician field, and you will make good money if you're smart. Planning to go into big law or what?

>>8312882
Did any of the Romans go here to become a patrician?

>>8312882
The zen master > the patrician

>>8313026
>Planning to go into big law or what?
nah, i might, but id rather do something cool/useful and run the risk of being a brokeboy.

>>8312882
>Gravity's Rainbow and Moby Dick even mention it by name.
The authors of those books never went there.

>>8312882
i didn't think the ivy league schools carried the same prestige as they once did now that they're full of asians.

>>8312882

Did my BA and PhD at U Chicago which is far superior tbqh famalam

>>8313097
/thread

>>8313209
PhD in what

>>8313322
Phil

Princeton University is the superior choice.

Moby Dick
>The whale ship was my Yale and Harvard College

Also, Gravity's Rainbow mocks Ivy League education more than it celebrates it. Slothrop gets embarassed by overweight German peasant children.

>>8313330
nice. what did you end up writing about?

>>8313333
maybe for undergrad, but despite what usnews would have you believe harvard has more real-world prestige, especially at the graduate level.

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>he fell for the University meme

Autodidact master race

>>8312985
wait, what? Princeton is by far the most patrician Ivy, and this is coming from someone who goes to another more plebian Ivy.

>>8313468
Hahaha definitely not. Princeton is the Ivy people go to to say they went to an Ivy, even though Princeton is the 2nd worst Ivy

Princeton is for faux patricians

>>8313478
People go to Cornell to say they went to an ivy. Faux patricians = Brown.
Worst ivy is Dartmouth

>>8313500
this

>>8312905
t. Poorfag

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>>8313514

>he needs somebody else to tell him the right way to read a fucking book

I'm rich as fuck and I never even bothered applying to college

>Plebeian
Cornell
Dartmouth
Brown
>Contrarian
Penn
Princeton
Columbia
>Patrician
Harvard
Yale

Prove me wrong

>>8313428
Um....I wrote about Rousseau's political philosophy but work broadly in political philosophy and the history of philosophy. am mostly interested in the stretch of political philosophy that goes from Rousseau to Marx, but am also interested in Rawls etc. Have secondary interests in philosophy of economics, philosophy of race, and ancient philosophy

>any American uni for undergrad

ayyy Oxford reporting in. English Lang and Lit - let's face it, Oxbridge remains the best place to study humanities as an undergrad

>>8313575
LOL OXBRIDGE IS SHIT. WHY DO YOU THINK YOU CANT GET ANYONE HIRED OUTSIDE OF YOUR TWO FUCKING UNIVERSITIES AND THE PATHETIC UK UNI SYSTEM? EVEN THEY DON'T WANT YOU FAGGOTS ANYMORE.


but 4real though, you benefit from having smart students and a ....okay....faculty, but the students get a shit education.

>>8313593
whut
In terms of course, the likes of St Andrews, UCL, and Edinburgh also do humanities well, but there's so much more to Oxbridge which those unis can never give you

If you know the right people in Oxford and you want a career in establishment media or politics, you are essentially made. It's that simple. And so many legitimate writers went here

>>8312882
>Harvard.

Isn't that the school where the students and staff performed gay witch hunts on gay students? I heard one kid committed suicide, afterward. Look up the "Secret Court of Harvard."

Isn't this also the school that performs animal testing?

Seriously, fuck Harvard, the Ivies and College Culture, in general.

>>8313623
then why has oxford lost like....alll of their famous philosophy faculty?

and haven't been able to hire shit. the only good hire you have had is jeff mcmahan from rutgers for the whites chair in moral philosophy after like...4 people turned it down and the only reason he took it was because he was having a shit divorce and wanted o leave the states asap

>>8313642
Hah what Philosophy faculty? Everyone knows that if you want to do legit philosophy you go to Cambridge, and if you want to become an establishment hack you take PPE

>>8313650
jesus christ boi.


I am a profesional philosopher, Cambridge has a solid faculty but is much smaller than oxford and not noticeably better than the st andrews/stirling program or ucl or kcl.
and warwick gets left out but is good as shit.

anyway, oxford has the largest phil faculty in the wolrd, and it is the pride of their institution. its just a sad fact that cambridge and oxford cant hold a flame to probably the top 20 us universities because they have rather arcane rules about retirement and they pay shit.

at my current job as an assistant professor I get paid way more than the 50/60 thousand pounds even a full professor might make at oxford (minus certain housing and other perks). and that is including the exchange rate.

>>8313665
I mean I am taking account of the exchange rate. When I was 29 my fist day at the job i got [aid around 76k. I am about to go up for associate profesor which should push it up to around 102K. and I am now 35. But seriously, i am a decently known philsopher and I make way ore than the famous people at oxbridge. that is why they fucking leave. I mean they can get paid 250, 300, 350, 4000, 500 k a year ( i am serious, ask david wallace or john hawthorne what they left oxford for) adn you guys just cant pay it. it sucks but.....

>>8313673
Eh, fair if you're at that level of academia (which I suppose I'd like to be one day too) I imagine you'll follow the money and perks

But as far as undergrad is concerned, Philosophy at Oxford is a joke. Philosophy and Theology is a degree for the slacker thesps, and PPE is a degree for the OUCA/Union greasy pole climbers. I imagine post-grad and beyond might be interesting, but options for a Philosophy degree in this country are fairly woeful. I was debating between English and Philosophy, but the undergrad degrees here are just so much better for English

>>8313695
This may be true. I now a whole, whole lot of oxford grads in academia (and of cousse a lot of cambridge etc,but far less) and they have been ppe or done phils at oxbridge or done a combined major etc....


but damn, i can't remember, you can't just major in phil at oxford right? doesn't it have to be combined?


but yeah, my oxford friends are either ppe or something else (maths or whatever) plus an mphil at least

also it isnt just the pay. your education system is fucked by dumb neoliberal overlords asking them to do crazy committee and department and looking for grant shit.

the US fucking sucks, but somehow we have at least been good enough to keep our universities autonomous. sure we dont have healthcare or whatever the fuck, but our universities are all far more autonomous and far less subject to the dumb whims of neoliberalism than yours.


which is crazy! the us is a plutocratic dystopia. but with good unis.

>>8313709
sorry, getting high with my firend who is a fellow us phd but kings mphil and my friend who is a oxford phd. (and also people from the us) but sorry for hte bad writing.

>>8313695
jeus this >>8313712
was meant for u

>>8312882
It's not patrician anymore, just another jew-u

>>8313538
Yale is not great these days.

>>8312882
OBJECTIVE FACT:

Small liberal arts colleges in New England are the most /lit/ undergrad experience you can have.

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>>8313871
Pic related

To all you knowledgeable folks, what's the verdict in University College Dublin? Does having Joyce as a fellow grad automatically make you a patrician?

As for myself, I went to a fucking engineering college and then a high ranked but non YHS law school. I'm trying desperately to overcome and reach full patrician status.

>>8313428
>despite what usnews would have you believe

But the national universities ranking isn't based on prestige. It factors in other things, like per-student-investment, research output, etc. Princeton is pretty much universally regarded as a stronger undergrad academic experience than Harvard, even if the latter is more outwardly prestigious. The "global universities" ranking reflects this. It's pretty much built entirely on prestige, and Harvard is #1.

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>tfw I went to Harvard and graduated summa
>tfw still posting on /lit/ on a Saturday night

where did it all go so wrong?

>>8313011
Im going law too. Fucked up a reading comprehension passage on the lsat in june. should I settle with this score and go to georgetown or cornell or should i retake and try for harvard yale stanford. My only concern is if lit will consider me patrician either way. its really the only reason im going to law school

>>8313982
Only a small segment of the population cares that you went to harvard. Most people are impressed but will also be thinking that your not "one of them" and make no effort to socialize with you

>>8313209
Hey, starting my PhD at UChicago soon

Do you mind my asking:
>What is the intellectual atmosphere like? Rigorous?
>How about politically?
>What's Hyde Park like? Dangerous/Safe? Fun/Dead?
>How are the students? How was teaching?
>Any general tips?

Thanks much if you answer any of the above. And congrats on finishing your doctorate - what are you doing now?

>>8313984
What is your score?

>>8313991
168. I got a couple wrong I shouldnt have on the games and then literally every question except the main point wrong on a 7 or 8 question passage. I cant really explain why it happened, just a mental thing. I have a good gpa but I also go to a fairly mediocre uni

>tfw didnt try in high school until senior year.

>>8313999
Are you me two years ago? I would recommend a retake if getting into HYS is your concern. What kind of law do you want to go into?

>>8314004
Good to know that someone else was in the same predicament. What did you improve your score to?

no idea. I did an undergard internship at a US Attorney's office that I enjoyed. Most of the AUSAs were borderline autists so it was a weird but somewhat comforting environment. While I'd enjoy that I think the low paycheck will be enough to convince me to do biglaw somewhere until I have enough money to work for the feds and start a family at the same time. And of course going to georgetown would be enough to achieve these goals but I'd like to go to a more prestigious school if I have the ability. Most of my family are uneducated alcoholics and drug addicts so it would mean a lot to them and me.

>>8314028
The Powerscore bibles were the single most effective way I improved my score, so if you're struggling with reading comp, I'd buy the bible for that.

That's great that you're setting such a trend in your family. If you're trying to get into biglaw, Harvard (and, from personal experience, Yale) has great OCI/internship help to get you set up in that department

>>8314062
Thanks. Usually reading comp goes well for me but just not that day. It would probably help to follow a method instead of just winging it though. Mind me asking if you did anything particularly special as an undergrad? Everything I've read about your law school's admissions says that its the only one that looks past the numbers and wants stuff like peace corps, varsity sports, Fulbright scholars, etc.

>>8314075
Yeah, the admissions does look a bit further in terms of what you've done, but not incredibly so. If the average top law school decides admissions based 90% on LSAT/GPA, mine decides based ~75%. I went to a shitty instate school, but I had a 3.9 GPA and (on my second take) 176 LSAT. I think the main thing that helped wrt admissions was being in the honor society for my major, and demonstrating my interest in my major outside of classes (e.g. going to seminars and other events related to my major independent of school). Basically just demonstrate your passion for something (if you can work a narrative about how you come from a poor family, etc. in, that's great). Are you a URM?

>>8314028
Steer clear from Georgetown. The class size is so fucking large, you'll have to really struggle during recruitment to get even a shot at a decent job, let alone biglaw. Also, don't do biglaw, and if you do, don't do it in NYC.

>>8314102

White. And not too poor thanks to dad's workers union wages but certainly not wealthy enough to relate to most of the kids at my posh private uni.

>>8314108
I'll keep this in mind. I figured Georgetown was reputable enough to guarantee yourself a good job. Why not NYC? It's my home so I'd be comfortable with the area.

>>8312882

"be a patrician"

You're born a patrician or you're not, so clearly it is insufficient as a mark of someone's worth

So why don't you just discard that whole ridiculous concept?

>>8314137
It's all about creating a narrative admissions will like. Try to stretch the story as much as you can without lying

>>8313538
>>Contrarian
>Columbia
rip and tear, u/s/w

>>8313990
>Do you mind my asking:
>>What is the intellectual atmosphere like? Rigorous?
Perhaps the most rigorous of any university on earth. Not kidding.
>>How about politically?
It's...mixed? there are a lot of conservatives, and a lot of left wing people, and a lot of people it is hard to place. For instance, conservative catholics whoa re marxists and heavily involved in anti-racist activism. I mean, it may be the most intellectual place on earth. It doesn't fit with republican/democrat liberal/conservative politics
>>What's Hyde Park like? Dangerous/Safe? Fun/Dead?
Hyde park is cool as fuck. it's a little sleepy for chicago, but they have put a ton of new development in it in the last 4-5 years. It is a very safe and amazing neighborhood.
>>How are the students? How was teaching?
Students are brilliant. They are so good the undergrands are often like mini grad students. I loved teaching, but you have to work. I mean these kids do insane amounts of work and their whole identity is being intellectuals. I've had kids turn in 28 page paers when the page limit was 8 pages. And they want to meet for hours to talk about them. The kids are brilliant.


>>Any general tips?

Yeah, explore the neighborhood, have fun, dont be a racist prick.

>>8312882
my best friend goes to harvard, so i've hung out there a good bit. doesn't seem to be much different from an average upper tier uni, with the exception of a few extremely brilliant people. these people are few and far between though. 99% of harvardians aren't exceptional when compared to a general top 40 university.

going to harvard doesn't make you an super genius a la John Von Neumann or James Joyce, but if you're a James Joyce or a John Von Neumann, you'll likely be at harvard (or another elite uni).

>>8314137
I don't mean to scare you but I personally have 2 friends at Georgetown who graduated this year with average grades but lackluster personalities/luck and are currently unemployed. In my humble experience, NYC lawyers work far more hours and have shittier work environments (multiple partners on your ass with little co-ordination) than their associate counterparts in D.C., LA or even London, etc. But if it's your home, you know better than me whether you still want to enjoy the city while racking up 40hr/wk in billable hours. Also, most associates I've asked were paying $3500 to live alone, close to the office for the pure necessity of it. You and I are reasonable folks who share the goal of becoming a humble guv't lawyer. If you re-take the test, and get into a school better than Georgetown, you'll undoubtedly have better choices and fewer regrets. As for me and what my eyes have seen, I would take that 50k job in VA over that 180k job in NYC knowing full well I might end up in the same position later on.

>>8314062
Don't go to Harvard for big law. If you can get into Harvard, you probably can get a full ride (or close to it) at one of CCN. That is a much better choice for generic big law.

>tfw going to UT for cheap, making Law Review, and starting a full time job this year making $180k

>>8313990
Did undergrad and lived there for a year or so after. I love Hyde Park but it's a complicated feeling. I had a good time.
It is stupidly rigorous you will feel stifled by your work and everyone else's
It is way more conservative than most campuses flip the conservative/libertarian to liberal/socialist ratio most students are honestly too overworked to really have an active political identity.
The students are hardworking nerds and like a quarter of them know how to get down and let off steam. The teaching is pretty fucking ace if you engage with your professor.
Get the fuck out of Hyde Park it is the blandest prettiest garden in Chicago. It's beautiful in spring and summer and if you're hard at work it's sufficient for living, there's 3 bars, a whole foods, a really really good local grocery on 53rd street, a lot of cafes and a nice park, but it is not Chicago and there is no good Mexican food and the good restaurants are way more expensive than they are good. Drugs are generally a bit more expensive and lower quality than you'd like but you can find good weed and quality psychedelics but the coke dealers are shitty and there's not anyone really selling heroin or opiates and pills are a fucking racket and I never really looked around for meth but there's some floating around from what I can tell. The cops will never fuck with you if you wear any uchicago gear and aren't flagrantly breaking the law. The Promontory is a pretty bangin brunch place but far from the best. The beach sucks go to the north side beach. You will not get shot or stabbed or robbed in all likelihood.

>>8314219
Fuck me, thanks for this reply, man. That's exactly the answer I wanted to hear. All of the other places I got in, the grad students were warning me that intellectual life is basically dead and it's just a dayjob.

I think we spoke once on /pol/, oddly enough.

>>8314290
Thanks a ton for this reply too.

One last weird question (for either of you guys, if you don't mind): Does Hyde Park feel "alive" or is it just a nice/bland place to live?

I have this weird fucking feeling like I'm moving to some tiny little island with three bars and a grocer, like you've said. But it would cheer me up a lot to know that, for instance, the place is constantly teeming with students.

Honestly, I think I've been giving myself an unconscious ghost town vibe by google mapsing the place too much. I have this weird feeling like I'm going to be wandering through silent streets and having coffee in abandoned cafes for the next year of my life.

>>8314282
This.

Hook 'Em

>>8314304
You want to live in Austin

(Where Bob Wills is still the king)

>>8314291
oh, cool. and yeah i think we might have....lol i also told you not to be a racist /pol/lack then haha

>>8314304
Also. I'm going to be around hyde park most of net year on fellowship (my wife is a PhD student in the social sciences and I don't want to go too far). If you want to meet up I would be happy to.

>>8312882
>Gravity's Rainbow mentions Harvard by name!
Its like it has a reputation or something.

Seriously, if you think that this is what you need to be able to be a good writer. You need to get off /lit/.

>>8314304
Yo, dude: we've talked before. This is me>>8314219
I'm gonna be around Hyde Park a ton this year, as I am on a fellowship that requires nothing of me. Want to meet up?

>>8313514
poorfags attend harvard u know. financial aid and affirmative action have been around for a while

>>8313974
>still unironically saying "patrician" in current year
*sighs in japanese*
you just don get it

>>8313982
probably the part where you're a lazy cunt
i'm assuming things but you're a frogposter so i dont care

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I am currently going to a top 10 engineering school (top 5 for civil eng.) as an undergrad. Do I have a shot at an Ivy-tier school for a law degree? I'd like to go to grad school after I spend a few years in the service.

whats the best university to study english at and become a GOAT-tier author?

>>8314553
no

>>8313695
fuck. im planning to start maths and philosophy at oxford in october. they told me that oxford had the largest philosophy department in the world :(

>>8315301
oxbridge/princeton

>>8315358
they do

>>8313665
>I am a profesional philosopher

>>8313999
I got a 165 and went tier II with a (not full) scholarship. Need to be top 20% to have a chance at BigLaw there. Good rule of thumb for any prospective law students: assume you will finish in the middle of the class, law exams aren't for everyone even if you study your ass off.

>>8313974
What's even the deal with the Yale law doctorate (JSD)? I assume it's prestigious but I keep seeing a bunch of people with it in not so amazing positions (they may be chasing things other than university names tho).

is it worth trying to get into oxford? i live in the city but i have heard from friends that you have to work so hard to the point that you will be having a mental breakdown

>>8313549
How's the job market for phil PhD?

>>8315807
Do you actually want that workload?

Many people choose their unis based on that alone.

>>8315844
shit

>>8315848
I don't mind that much work but I heard that oxford in particular has a policy in which they give you as much work as possible in order to break you so you reach your full potential.

>>8315270
GPA matters far more than institution.

Any anons here with experience at Berkeley? I'm going there for undergrad next year and the school is so big that learning anything about it is like finding your way out of a labyrinth.

I'm going in for the Comparative Literature major (interestingly enough Judith Butler is a member of the department's faculty). How's the intellectual climate there? Is Berkeley blindly liberal or is there a healthy culture there that promotes discussion and so on? How's the /lit/ scene there? Are there any things I should know about Berkeley related to /lit/?

>>8316260

Sure, but only for those that went to the right school to begin with.

>>8316290

You are not allowed to post here if you attended or will be attending Berkeley. Please go to a new website.

>>8313549
not sure how anyone could be interested in rawls, but other than that that's cool. political philosophy/history of philosophy are both really interesting. Also no matter where you are on the political spectrum Marx is such an interesting figure, and the Communist Manifesto is legitimately inspiring even if you're not a historical materialist.

>>8313627
>Seriously, fuck Harvard, the Ivies and College Culture, in general.
edgy

>>8313984
>>8313999
my story is kinda similar desu. bad grades in HS but good test scores, went to a p good state school anyways, got a great GPA in college, and ended up underperforming on the lsat because i fucked up one of the logic games entirely (still broke 170 tho).

still got into a top school with a good scholarship. Wasn't worth it to me to retake the lsat and reapply for a chance at HYS. i probably wasnt going to be a supreme court justice anyways.

>>8314075
ECs don't matter at all. If your stats hover around the 75th %ile you will get in.

>>8316260
this. unless you go to a feeder school.

>>8316295
No, your undergrad institution/major means literally nothing to American law schools. The only things they care about (outside of maybe Yale and Stanford) are grades and LSAT. Keep your GPA up and score in the 170s. If you do, you can go wherever you want. It is 100% a numbers game.

>>8316341
How am I edgy? Those are things that really go down.

Need I mention the Stanford Prison Experiment or Penn State's serial child-molesting football coach?

>>8316302
thanks for cringe, u pretentious faggot

>>8316589
and what if I have a 3.2 and score 176 on LSAT?

>>8318065
lawschoolnumbers.com

>tfw 160 in 2005 and dodged the "if you go to lawschool you will be rich myth

Thank god for somethingawful and jdunderground

>>8318065
you're what's called a "splitter" if it helps you find advice on google.

An university is the last place I would look for a patrician.

>>8318065
Then say goodbye to the YHSCCN and shoot for some of the more splitter friendly schools at the bottom of the T14. Play the negotiation game with the scholarships and hope for the best. mylsn.com and top-law-schools.com/forums

>>8314359
>>8314553
Hey, that'd be great. Sorry for the late-ass reply, haven't been at the computer.

I am guessing both these posts are the same person?

Though we can only meet on the condition that you sincerely believe that I I'm not a racist pls i'm not

>>8317999
ahh, penn state, the recently accredited ivy league school, very good one.

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>>8313538

>Yale

Oh that was a good laugh.

>>8318534
Yes, Anon, I would agree.

From what I've heard in the news, Penn State is very "hands on" with the young students, especially in the athletics department.

>>8313538

MIT is better than all these schools.

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> tfw columbia
> tfw people you talk to always forget that it's an ivy

>>8317999
>>8318534
yeah, Stanford too.

>>8318547
i think the only people who forget that columbia is an ivy (in my experience) are stupid people on the west coast

>>8318572
kids on the West Coast think the ivy league consists of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, and Cal lmao

Veritatem non habent desu.

>>8315807
that is true
and if you don't work hard you will also have a mental breakdown

but the English students have a much better time than me (physics)

and hey, some people manage to hold it together. it's just that everybody (at my college anyway) is a little bit mental in their own way, lots of insecurities and odd ways of seeing the world. which makes it a brilliant place to make friends but on the other hand it's a zoo of loons

except E&M students, they're normal, relatively speaking.

honestly I'm glad I went. anywhere else I'd have been happy slacking, probably, so wouldn't get nearly as far. I did slack this year and have to resit an exam.. but I've learnt from my mistakes. = no more smart but lazy feels

>>8313478
it has the third lowest acceptance rate in the Ivy League, dummy.

t. guy who got rejected and ended up at pleb Columbia

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>>8320364
is there any worse feel than having to go to a second-choice ivy?

>>8320364
>>8320534
columbia is quite patrician unless you're antisocial as fuck

nothing more patrician than to be invited to gallery opening dinners and to have the head editor of artnews sitting across from you

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Is Williams College a patrician university?

Why is this board so obsessed with elitism? Students at elite universities are such a small percent of the population that I can't imagine any more than a few of the people on this board are in that group.

Nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shRtVAPjnKs

>>8318501
yeah for sure, just leave an email (a burner email or whatever you want to use) and I'll get in touch

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Is it even possible to be a pseud if you didn't go here? Is there even any point in memeing?

>>8321965
i guarantee you the proportion of students from elite universities on here is higher than the proportion in the general population of internet users.

>ivies
The decaying establishment of the previous era. MIT, Caltech, and Stanford are superior.

>>8312882
>butthurt about not going to meme college for coked up liberal rich kids

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>>8322401
>STEM

>>8316302
why does lit hate berk?

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>>8322401
>>8323572

http://classes.dma.ucla.edu/Fall07/9-1/pdfs/week1/TwoCultures.pdf

>>8322396
thats depressing to think about