the US is too isolated, too insular. They don't translate

>>8232306
True.

>the big dialogue of literature
Ahahahahahhah

>>8232306
False. The USA is a rich melting pot of settlers and migrants. They don't need to 'translate' because their literary culture is already one big translation from everywhere else

Also it's a little silly in an increasingly globalised world to make the claim that there is only one 'dialogue' of literature, instead of a massive variety of intersecting dialogues. To talk of big dialogues is to fall into the trap of generalising literary traditions

Look at the arrogance of these gringos. >>8232381

>>8232306
This was his explanation for the American Nobel dry spell btw.

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Could be worse. The whole Arabic world during the last 1000 years translated as many books as Spain in one year.

Leave it to a club of Swedish academics to know what literature is. No irony at all in calling the United States insular.

>>8232306
true

american "literature" is a joke

>>8233518
they're not all academics

>>8233540
except McCarthy, Pynchon, Gass and Roth are all American?
Coetzee is the only non-american on the same level I can think of
btw, how do you pronounce Coetzee?

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>>8233550

Scanned through the list of self-appointed geniuses, you're right. One or two of them write irrelevant slice-of-life borefests. Of them, this was the first one with a wiki I could find.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drömfakulteten

>Drömfakulteten (lit. The Dream Faculty) is a 2006 novel by the Swedish writer Sara Stridsberg. The main character of the narrative is the American radical feminist Valerie Solanas. The novel received the Nordic Council Literature Prize.[1] In 2011 it was voted as the best Swedish novel from the 2000s (decade) in a poll held by the newspaper Dagens Nyheter, which involved one hundred Swedish critics, authors, journalists and publishers

American literature is too toxic, masculine and assertive of its identity for Swedish tastes. Hence their last American pick, Toni Morrison ( "who in novels characterized by visionary force and poetic import, gives life to an essential aspect of American reality"; "muh racism"), and Barack Obama getting a peace prize and Battlefield 1.

>>8233608
>swedes decide who gets the peace prize

>>8232381
>>8232381
>rich melting pot
Kek, how do Americans believe these platitudes. Having lived in the US, something like 90% of Americans have been assimilated to the mainstream culture, the rest are recent immigrants and therefore not Americans.

None of the good American books are "translated" from anything. You've fallen for the feel good dogma of a capitalist age.

Why do these shitty threads on translation keep popping up? No one on this board knows anything about translation theory.

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>>8233665
>Kek, how do Americans believe these platitudes
I'm British, but I read plenty enough American literature to have a comprehensive grasp of it.

>Having lived in the US, something like 90% of Americans have been assimilated to the mainstream culture
Irrelevant. Literary culture has nothing to do with your personal experience of american people, native born or not. This is equivalent to saying hollywood makes bland movies because everyone you met in California was white.

>None of the good American books are "translated" from anything
And nowhere did I say they were. Step up your reading comprehension. I said your literary culture is a melting pot because your history is one of migration, colonisation and settlement from a variety of different countries.

>You've fallen for the feel good dogma of a capitalist age.
and since the implication here is that capitalism is 'bad', I'm going to presume you're one of the regressive left and can comfortably dismiss your opinion by virtue of your apparent retardation

>>8233701
Studied it in first year. Walter Benjamin is bae

>>8232306
>tfw American
>literally all of my literature classes revolve around translations, except a Faulkner novel one time.

>>8233553

mccarthy - shit corncobber
pynchon - decent not amazing
gass - havent read
roth - period piece

>it's a yuros still think they're relevant episode

>>8233665
90% my ass, where did you live?

>>8233553
If you read literature from other countries, those guys feel like pop lit.

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>>8232306
>>8232398
>>8233540
>>8233665
>>8233840
>>8234039

Obviously just butt hurt anti-American, Eurofags. The fact of the matter is your countries are on the decline and barely relevant to anything that happens on the worlds stage. From STEM, to arts, to athletics, to war, we run circles around you.

You ever notice how you know who our president is, hell even who are presidential candidates are, and we don't even think about you because you don't matter?

You are the equivalent of the beta orbiter in HS who proclaims he is more intelligent or enlightened than the rest of the plebs around him, all the while Chad fucks the girl you've been in love with since elementary school.

Absolutely pathetic.

>>8234039
I'm not american and I mostly read non-american
thanks

He should wait until he reads my novel before making such claims

>>8234081
lol

if you want world influence america is declining. we should all read chink literature

face it american lit is a joke and you should go back to /r9k/

>>8234103
Good b8. Let's see if it pays off

maybe post some recent non-american novels that /lit/ doesn't pay enough attention to before you talk

>>8232306
>>8233665

>>Assuming that because we share the same government, we also share the same culture.

Anyone who believes this has obviously never really been to America. Just because you've been to NYC doesn't mean you know what life in the South is like. Just because you've been to Nashville, doesn't even tell you what the rest of the south is like. Our regions/states are bigger and more diverse than your entire country.

>>8233665
>90% of Americans have been assimilated to the mainstream culture,

I live in fucking WHITE WHITE WHITE New Hampshire and people reject pop culture as poison and are trending further towards /out/ and /fit/ culture

>>8234125
>the south

as if we need more corncob chronicles

>>8234130
are you retarded

/out/ and /fit/ culture IS upper middle class white pop culture you idiot.

>>8234135
No, its struggling to pay for HBO GO so you can stream GoT while your kid plays garbage on ipad.

>>8234142
>struggling to pay for HBO GO

i said upper middle clas not trailer trash

>>8234131

>>Insulting a culture rather than addressing the argument.

Stay mad eurobitch.

Also if you're going to be dismissive and bigoted at least do it right. The phrase would be cornbread chronicles.

>>8234135

>>Implying being fit and going outdoors is just for UMC whites.

Okay

>>8234125
I'd argue that american culture is based on the city you're in, even if you live n a flyover state.

the difference between Queens and Bronx culture is noticeably different for example.

if you live in a well-known city like Los Vegas, Seattle, Miami, Orlando, San Francisco, Hollywood, New Orleans, etc. the cities around you usually just copy the culture, unless there's some geographical boundaries ofc.

it's like people judge america by the view counts of shitty normies on youtube or something.

>>8234158
i'm american you retard but i also dont have stupid "national pride" in "national literature"

>>8234081
>he tries to defend america by comparing it to known antiintellectual chad

>>8234180
it's fitting. america is by far the most antiintellectual of the developed first world countries. stupidity and mediocrity are praised and celebrated, while anything that can be perceived as erudite is condemned.

democracy and populism was a mistake.

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>>8234180
>>8234187

You're right we are just so antiintellectual

>>8234213
>50 years ago

america was once a bastion of human progress and achieevements. it's all the sadder that the country collectively turned its back on what made it a world leader.

>>8234230
>what made it a world leader
this being?

>>8234237
a willingness to innovate and reject traditions that didn't make sense, as well as embrace the best of what other cultures around the world had to offer. there were exceptions and missteps along the way, but for many decades, america did this much better than anyone else. america also didn't fall prey to the ideological fallacies that plagued europe. achievement and progress were celebrated, not mocked. stagnation condemned and not sought after.

it's ironic that america has done a complete 180 since then.

>>8234230
>>8234243

I will concede to this point. We are being actively pushed away from what makes us great (primarily by the religious right and regressive left) but I wouldn't us off just yet.

>>8234255
centrist scum

>>8234257
And where do you stand extremist?

>>8234255

write us off just yet*

I a

>>8234262
on my hind legs

>>8234257

Maybe you can explain this. Why do liberals/conservatives have such a hostile view towards centrists? Why is it wrong to say both sides have their merits and it may just be better to seek a middle path rather than bouncing between extremes?

>>8234280
>liberals
>not centrist

>>8234289

What in the hell about the liberal dogma is moderate? I have voted "liberal" my whole life, but even I know there is no room for "toeing the party line". To even imply that the other side may have a point brings the wrath of SJWs upon you, and I'm sure the same is true for the other side of the isle.

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>>8234294
americunt detected

>>8234300

>>Not addressing my argument.

Shouldn't you be prepping your wife for Achmed? You know he just explodes when you are running late.

>>8234316
yes I did

>>8234280
people from the fringe take pride in their convictions

http://www.complete-review.com/maindex/trans.htm

>>8233739
I'm not an American. Anyway, imbeciles like you are always predictable- you see only the surface. The fact is that America was 90% British at its founding. In the 19th century, immigrants either assimilated, or recieved no opportunities to participate in the mainstream culture.
Yes, by now the descendants of those immigrants have entered the mainstream, but they've already been assimilated. Your pathetic platitudes, I've already heard- they must seem weak to one with more precise knowledge of that country's history. "Colonial history" "settlers" - you're hiding flabby thoughts behind big ideas. Lol at the fact that you consider Herman Melville and Nathaniel Hawthorne as coming from seperate cultures.
>>8234010
Eating chinese food doesn't count as coming from a foreign culture. I'm talking abour personality, literature, etc- not your capitalist platitudes
>>8234125
America is not "multicultural" jyst because it has its fair share of immigrants- at least not any more than Britain or France. There is such a thing as American culture, and their children will be assimilated to it. In the meantime, imbeciles like you will undermine your country with these easy platitudes.

>>8232306

They are fine. Believe me.

t. Australian

>>8232306
who cares?

>>8234993
Judging by the amount of replies, I'd say a fair number of people.

>>8235003
>bunch of shitposters on /lit/
>"people"

hah

>>8235003
hah okay

>>8232306
And then he backed down like the little Swedish bitch he is as soon as someone called him out.

>>8234280
It is intellectual cowardice. One who claims such pretenses is inevitably someone who shies away from criticism, whose fear of being wrong paralyzes them. Furthermore, centrists like to consider themselves above the fray, so to speak, and have a nasty proclivity towards being snooty assholes.

>>8235037
so the old "they're not wrong, they're just assholes" then?

>>8234934
Nigga you took the two most disparate American authors to pick. Hawthorne came from a tradition of Puritanism, and their insularity and sententiousness guided every single word he wrote. Melville's worldview is several orders of magnitude more cosmopolitan, and his anthropological fascination shows his academic bent as well as his desire to explore other cultures. They had different beliefs as to how the world operated, different ideas of what a family was and should be, and operated in different social circles. America was 90% British, but Britain alone was English, Scottish, and Welsh at a bare minimum. There is still a fucking dialect of German in Texas.

>>8235043
When you put yourself into a position where your ideas cannot be falsified, you don't matter. Centrists are not advancing any ideas. When you put yourself in that position because you look down on other people, then anything you say can be dismissed forthright.

>>8235043

No; he's completely wrong.

He is the kind of guy who likes to invest his identity and self-hood too completely into the political narratives that he follows. These types care less about real honest and open discourse with opposing parties and more about the egotistical vagaries and sophistry that comes with "beating" their opponents. It devolves into showmanship and sport with them. Both on the left and the right. We all see it time and time again.

That he would even try to talk about intellectual cowardice is the ultimate irony.

>>8235055
>but Britain alone was
Shit point, no one would say durr Britain is a memting pot. This also applies to your Puritan post, and your point about Hawthorne is trash. His style itself has little to do with puritanism.

>>8235060
Your ability to surmise my psychological profile and intellectual capabilities are truly astounding. If you are ever nominated for the Nobel Prize, you have my vote.

I follow very few, if any, political narratives. Showmanship is more loathsome than sport. The fact that you resulted to personal invective is telling, and doesn't change the fact that most centrists are wishy washy assholes who can't accept the reality around them.

>>8235064
...but his subject matter was more or less solely concerned with Puritanism? And if certain guiding factors, like predestination, are featured in his work, then how do we divorce that from his style?

We don't say it is a melting pot, because their countries have well-defined borders. The US does not have a mini-Scotland.

>>8235060
i know im just trying to get him to admit he didn't say anything about centrists other than 'i dont like them'

>>8235066

If I wasn't right about you personally then fair enough, but you also weren't right about all centrists in kind.

But I think we can both agree that our respective statements regarding both types are largely true. Though I think yours holds less water the less a centrist is actually concerned about the political process. Very political centrists are pretty flaky, but a person who is centrist by default through disillusion or indifference isn't necessarily.

>>8235073
I was speaking of the man, so what do I care about his subject matter? Culturally,they were as similar to one another as two Englishman from different regions would be to each other. Anyway, where do you suppose Puritanism came from? Was England le melting pot?
And how do you think it is that Irish, Scottish, and Welsh names are common in Britain? Another trash post.

>>8235085
Common in England

>>8235075
Here is the deal though. One does not create a political 'narrative' from thin air. Evidence is a necessity, and of course logic must be applied to the world around us. Centrists, almost categorically, refuse to compile evidence or think about it. Disillusion is usually a failure of critical thinking, just as indifference is the purview of bored suburban children. I admit no logic in your statement whatsoever.

>>8235085
What are you actually trying to argue? Are you arguing that Hawthorne wasn't Puritan? They had fundamentally different views in regards to human nature, largely because of their surroundings. If you think you could pick two random Englishmen and find beliefs that dissimilar, you need to open a history book. Puritanism did not last that long in England, because England has an official religion, and had stricter laws, legal and social, concerning less temporal affairs.

People marry each other? I see no reason to defend that.

Please be honest, was English your first language? Evidence that it was has been exiguous so far.

>>8235091

>Disillusion is usually a failure of critical thinking

Empty platitude.

>just as indifference is the purview of bored suburban children.

Empty platitude.

>I admit no logic in your statement whatsoever.

Because you're a precocious little wanker, m8.

>>8235101
>Empty platitude

No, saying everything is shit because the thing I had faith in is shit is actually just a breakdown in logic.

>Empty platitude.
Politics has an impact on everyone. Suburban kiddies are more isolated from it, or at least perceive themselves to be. Indifference is this almost atavistic claim to nobility, as if anyone is 'above' it.

>Because you're a precocious little wanker, m8.
This I grant.

>>8235037
>>8235058
>>8235060

Intellectual cowardice to admit to yourself that no one is completely right? Intellectual cowardice to put yourself in a position to be criticized by everyone instead of just accepting a party line?

You are the coward, sir. You find it easier to "pick a side" and entrench yourself in the dogma laid out by others, than to critically think for yourself and risk the possibility of thinking that maybe the people who you typically agree with, are not always in the right.

You think I care about "beating" anyone? I'm sorry to inform you of the unfortunate truth that politics is nothing but opinions on how one THINKS something should be run. There is no such thing as political fact.

I pity you, truly. You will spend the rest of your life in an echo chamber where you convince yourself that everyone who disagrees with you is the bad guy, and that you and those who stroke your sense of self righteousness, are the true bearers of goodness and truth.

>>8235107

>Indifference is this almost atavistic claim to nobility

It's entertaining to watch a young guy like you try to refine his sophistry abilities in real time.

>This I grant.

Work on it, maybe. Wild thought.

>>8235121

>You find it easier to "pick a side" and entrench yourself in the dogma laid out by others

Third post you linked here. All of this is the opposite of what I was saying.

Also sperg less in general.

>>8235121
I don't understand your argument or at least not completely. You seem to be laboring under the misunderstanding that by aligning myself with a party, let alone an ideology, I am subscribing to it wholesale. This reasoning is puerile. I have come to understand that my positions line up with the beliefs of one movement or another- and good for them. Centrists are not advancing any position, so there is no need for them to think.

Furthermore, I care little as to whether or not you wish to beat anyone. I find it acceptable that one thinks the world should be run a certain way, as these thoughts rarely spring from the ground. There are beliefs and notions of the world that these ideas run on. Facts guide these beliefs. You do not suggest a carbon tax if you do not believe in the truth of climate change, despite the fact that the veracity of climate change is indisputable.

I scorn your pity, and find it misplaced. It seems to spring from a desire to place yourself higher than me in the grand scheme of things. How odd, as this superciliousness is the exact thing I have a problem with in regards to centrists.

>>8235122
If you're not actually going to try, perhaps you can stop posting?

>>8235150

>be as precocious and presupposing as I am or you will give me nothing to go with

Nope. Sorry.

>>8233608
The peace price is given by Norwegians.

Doesn't this have more to do with the fact that non-STEM academia in the US is dead?
Since when do the Americans have any respect for the humanities?

>>8234081
>literally bragging about not knowing the EUs leaders
It's amazing how proud American patriots are of their ignorance, over and over. It's the most common theme with you guys.

>>8235639
>"So I stood up and I told that teachin' lady, the only letters I need to know are U, S and A"

>>8235639
>>8235645

We don't know them because they don't matter. We know the head of the EU because it actually affects us, we know the leaders of the UK, again because it actually affects us. Who the fuck gives a shit about the government of Spain?

But you know all about us, because we are the leaders of the free world.

>>8235299
I would argue the average american care more about the humanities than about STEM.

How about this.

I want all of the non-Americans in this thread to give us an example of what you think the average American is like.

No shitty memes or ridiculous insults, just what your perception of what we are like.

>>8237234
You're a bunch of fucking bipeds.

>>8237234
I think there are many kinds of average Americans depending from which state you come from.

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>>8237244

It breaks down even further.

It's more like city or region than just state ie North TX vs Central TX.

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>>8237244
>>8237272
>Americans unironically telling Europeans they're a diverse place
What, the preferred pizza topping vary over states?
Travel 1 hour in Europe and you cross numerous actual borders and hundreds of different regional cultures with their own very long history

>>8237254
>"ha look at those drones on their computers I am glad I am not like that"

>>8237292

You've obviously never traveled to or across America.

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It was a dumb statement made by a hack with too much job security. What does he even mean by the "world dialogue of literature"? Why does world literature have a geographical center? He even backpedaled on his contrived pseudointellectual statement later. The nobody writing the book review column in your local newspaper has more spine and credentials.

There's way too much politics and bias involved with the decision-making behind these prizes, it's the process of history that decides what is truly literature. They passed over Joyce for fuck's sake. Europeans defending Engdahl's idiocy and Americans inflating their country's worth or saying similarly dismissive things about Europe are going in a pointless circle.

>>8237292
>That railway
One can only dream

>>8237301
Outside of major cities, cultures have been killed by consumerism in the US.

>tfw Americans think you're European and Europeans think you're American ITT

>>8237272
>It's more like city or region than just state ie North TX vs Central TX.
They're not that different.
See >>8237364

>>8237355
>They passed over Joyce for fuck's sake.
All the people who were in the academy when he was alive are dead now, obviously.

Btw does anyone know for sure that old Jimmy was nominated? I would certainly assume he was, just wondering if anyone's gone trough and checked.

>>8237379

Point being, even in its halycon days the institution was shit. The Swedish Academy is just another corrupt Eurotrash bureaucracy like FIFA or the EU.

>>8237234
>on-Americans in this thread to give us an example of what you think the average American is like.

As a Canadian, there are few observable differences to distinguish them from us. Most of the time when someone told me they were American I was a little surprised. But when you get to know them subtle differences emerge:

Most Americans I have encountered were actually pretty thoughtful, and grounded individuals. They are more assertive and outspoken than we are, but not rude, and the males tend to do very well with women here for that reason. They also seem less apathetic, more goal driven, as if they are in frontier territory making a claim. You could argue these are traits of people willing to study abroad, but Asian students, and students from the Caribbean, Africa, and elsewhere are not like this at all.

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>>8237393

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>>8237393
>>8237355
Have you even read Horace Engdahl? Or fuck: anything by anyone in the academy?
Or did you form this opinion of Flashback, perhaps?

>>8237402
>le smug face

Such a passionate defense, care to use your words like a big boy?

>>8237402
who is she?

>>8237423
>Horace
more like whoreass amirite

>>8237428
Krysten Ritter, plays Jessica Jones

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>>8237423

No I haven't. Other than a tome on ballet, he doesn't seem to get published or translated outside Sweden.

I wonder if he sees the irony in this?

>>8237437
>Stagnelius Karleken
The lack of diacritics makes it sound a bit homoerotic.

>>8237364
Ill just have to put my few cents in here.
Ive lived and traveled across the US and though >consumerism is a cross cultural "aspect" it by no means clearly unites all US cultures. Travel to rural Appalachia and then to rural Washington State. These places are by no means culturally equivalent. Saying consumerism has white washed US cultures is like saying socialism has made all of the X-USSR countries the same(it hasn't)

Why are journalists and critics so shit? I was reading a review of Howard Bloom's book "How to Read and Why" and the guy was just taking puerile jabs at him. You could almost see him snickering in front of his laptop and congratulating himself after crafting this most recent censure before trying to come up with another one. It was just pathetic.

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>>8237423

>hrmm.. who is this Palme?

>"A pivotal, renowned, and polarizing figure domestically as well as in international politics since the 1960s, Palme was steadfast in his non-alignment policy towards the superpowers, accompanied by support for numerous third world liberation movements following decolonization including, most controversially, economic and vocal support for a number of Third World governments which were guilty of gross violations of human rights. Most famously, he was the first Western Head of Government to visit Cuba after its revolution, giving a speech in Santiago praising contemporary Cuban and Cambodian revolutionaries."

Good lord he sucked off the Khmer Rouge and Castro while whingeing about human rights and was the head of state when Ingmar Bergman, the most significant Swedish artist of the 20th century, got pinched for doing literally nothing. At least back then Sweden had the sense to shoot guy.

>>8237458
>rural
That's why, consumerism still hasn't had a strong foothold in rural areas

>>8237635
To add to this: even then, a lot of usonian culture has been lost due to capitalism. Modern "southern cuisine" is a shadow of its former self

>>8237659

This is true unless you go to the DEEP south.
There are still some pit masters and southern "chefs" that cook traditional southern cuisine. And as always food culture will be much more apparent in home kitchens than any restaurant.

>>8237967
A lot of traditional dishes are lost forever because people had shitty casserole dishes forced on them.

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>>8232306
Truth.
The internet is sort of opening things up, but the TPP will probably close it off again.

>>8237234
>create a caricature
there are 300+ million of us dumbfuck.

>>8237979
such as

>>8238425
*there are 300+ million of us dumbfucks

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>>8240393
smooth

>>8238425

That's what I'm saying, they keep making blanket statements about Americans and "American culture" and I don't really think they understand how big and diverse we are.

>>8240482
>I don't really think they understand how big [...] we are.

>>8240482
One blanket statement you can make about Americans is we don't read, and we certainly don't read translated literature.

>>8237217
>But you know all about us, because we are the leaders of the free world.
How is the US more of a leader than Russia and the EU?

>we, we, us, we, us, us, we
This is just worrying

Mark Twain and David Foster Wallace are more than enough to prove you wrong, fuck off