yes, its this time of the month again chinese litearture thread.

also , why are there only shitty translations of even the most important classics? try to find the compiled works of Zhu Xi your shit out of luck :( only thing you can find is early marxist literature.

>>7794747
Because reading Eastern works in translation is beyond retarded. The language/culture are too different to do even a half decent rendering.

>>7794751
所以我学习中文, but im still far away from being able to read these books.

you read any Lu Xun? quite depressing for someone who wanted to be a revolutionary.

>>7794741
anyone ever get a copy of Investiture of the Gods? also, Sorcerer's Revolt?

File: 1456590370420.jpg (146KB, 999x799px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 999x799px

>>7794741
why is /lit/ suddenly full of people studying Mandarin? myself included

>>7795202
being a weeb is played out, sinophilia is the next big thing

>>7795202
>Lisa
>not chaotic evil
我靠

>>7794751
Not really. I guess it depends on the subject, but I assume anon's talking about Zhu Xi's philosophy, not his poems.

China stopped being good as soon as the last Emperor died.

Revolutionary scum.

/lit/到底有几个中国人?

>>7795380

这个网站比中国的气氛有更多癌症。谁要癌症?

>>7795380
我

>>7795418
How can people read this shit

>>7795202
lucre

>>7795418
>有人不要癌症

>>7795424

I'm the guy who posted that, so I'll tell you that reading Chinese is really quite easy if you have a good memory. The characters are made of a relatively small number of 'piece'/radicals and the more time you spend looking at them, the more it resembles the world's most fucked up alphabet. There are, for example, there are often phonetic and semantic clues in each character. In my post I used the word "气氛". The 气 means air (generally) and combined with 氛, it means atmosphere. 氛 is pronounced fen1 and contains in it the character 分 (pronounced fen1). So you can pretty much tell how it will be pronounced and that it will be related to some concept related to air. Does this make any sense?

>>7795349

我靠你妈

>>7795418
哥,你的中文缺点火候。。。

File: Militarily useless Chinese intensify.png (2MB, 2029x1713px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2029x1713px

Are there any reasons as to why I should prefer Gooks to Nips?

Time is precious, and both languages take years to master; never mind the culture/etc.

I'm guessing something persuaded these Mandarin aficionados to err in favour of it.

>>7795453
That's pretty interesting

>>7795494
japan is superior to every country in every way

>>7795494

Japan's demographics and economy are a nightmare so there probably won't be as much interesting stuff coming out of Japan as China and the Chinese diaspora. Japanese also is probably more difficult than Chinese, but that's my opinion. But Japanese sounds nicer and has better literature and stuff today, but honestly, unless you get yourself a Chinese girlfriend or live in China, you will never be able to really read Chinese literature in the original (same with Japanese).

>>7795524
japanese is significantly easier than chinese

is the 海子 poster here? reveal yourself

>>7795490

Please explain. What's wrong with his sentence? I'm also studying Chinese and I don't see a problem?

>>7795511
autism.mobi

>>7795545
气氛 means atmosphere in "mood" sense of the word, not the actual physical air.

also the grammar is awkward, particularly the "有更多癌症" part. the meaning is communicated but no fluent speaker would ever actually say it like that.

File: Ni hao.jpg (14KB, 441x411px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 441x411px

>>7795524

>Japan's demographics and economy are a nightmare

They're both intertwined. Frankly, I think Japan will prove itself to be an interesting experiment in years to come; namely, whether a growing economy necessarily requires a growing population.

Theoretically, they could focus on markets/jobs where quality matters more than quantity.

In any case, if it was me in charge, my solution would probably be Nazi-style commemoration/celebration of large families. I'd also look into financial incentives, which would be a small investment in the grand scheme of things; and no doubt welcome in the nation that spawned 'Salarymen'.

>Japanese also is probably more difficult than Chinese, but that's my opinion.

Japanese has this reputation, but I'm not sure I buy it for 2 reasons:

1) Japanese pronunciation is extremely rigid/uniform, as opposed to China/etc where you can have mutually unintelligible dialects
2) Spoken Japanese is straightforward.

The trouble for most people is the Kanji. The main reason is that they're Chinese characters. This isn't an issue in and by itself; but whilst in Chinese they actually *make sense* (logically composed from radicals/etc), the symbols that comprise Kanji today have no such logic behind them.

They were only incorporated into Japanese, and mainly maintained, because the Japanese like how they look. That's it; there's no logic in writing/constructing them. It's just a case of learning them by rote.

>>7795556
>The trouble for most people is the Kanji. The main reason is that they're Chinese characters. This isn't an issue in and by itself; but whilst in Chinese they actually *make sense* (logically composed from radicals/etc), the symbols that comprise Kanji today have no such logic behind them.

>They were only incorporated into Japanese, and mainly maintained, because the Japanese like how they look. That's it; there's no logic in writing/constructing them. It's just a case of learning them by rote.

while it's true Chinese characters "make sense" and are constructed (usually) logically, it has very little actual impact on how people learn/study/discern meaning from them. that aspect has always been hugely exaggerated by foreigners/people teaching beginner's chinese. it's very much rote learning and memorization.

>>7795553

Thanks for the advice. I thought qifen was used wrongly but my dictionary only lists it as atmosphere or surrounding feeling. What would be a natural way to say it?

>>7795563
translating 4chan meme slang is difficult in general it's gonna sound a bit awkward no matter how you do it. i'd probably translate it around the lines of

这个网站比中国空气更致癌

>>7795562

I see. Well at least there's some logic behind some of them, at least.

The way to imagine the Kanji, I find, is to imagine if English suddenly adopted a Chinese character because people like it; but only took the character. It would be given an English pronunciation and assigned (though not necessarily) another meaning.

Mathematics has done something to that effect for quite some time. '+', 'x', '=', and so on, basically function as 'Kanji' do in Japanese.

A lot of Kanji have shared meaning with the Chinese equivalents; which is why Chinese tourists tend to fare so well in Tokyo/etc.

>>7795556

The Japanese economy has not grown in like 20 years (wages, adjusted for inflation, are lower now than in the 90s). They are radically xenophobic and I think they are more likely to die on their own sword than truly open up. Otherwise, they'd respond to a 20 year recession with something other than pretty standard monetary policy (aka Abenomics).

I think you're right about the pronunciation and so on, but Japanese has a lot of grammatical features that Chinese doesn't, like verb conjugation, politeness levels, something akin to a case system, etc. Chinese grammar is pretty familiar to a Westerner. I agree with your point about Kanji - the pronunciation has nothing to do with the reading, which makes it way harder.

Chinese people also are willing to listen to you in Chinese and try their hardest to understand you. Japanese people will just say "aimu sorriu, ai dontu speaku engrishu" when you try speaking Japanese to them.

>>7795576

Thanks - this has been legitimately helpful.

>>7795583

Just to add, quite a few of the Kanji do have some level of logic behind them; just not in their construction as such.

Many are used the same way ancient Chinese characters used to be used; like pictograms.

>>7795587

>They are radically xenophobic and I think they are more likely to die on their own sword than truly open up.

I can't blame them. Beyond monetary terms, immigration/diversity/etc have done far more good than harm.

>politeness levels

This isn't really a thing any more with younger generations. Small blessings.

I'm verging on fluent with Japanese, just curious to know why my Chinkbros went with Chinese.

>>7795600

Hmm. That's interesting about the politeness levels.

Did you study Japanese in college/teach English there/etc? I'm always curious to hear how people get to fluency, especially in really hard languages.

>>7795625

Self-taught, mostly; but did a couple of courses for official recognition. I've never been convinced of the merit in having languages be a proper subject; especially in this day and age. There are enough resources around with the internet/etc to reach sufficient (or greater) fluency yourself.

The main thing is just to immerse yourself in it. Some little school/evening class won't suffice. I spent about 3 hours per day when starting out.

>>7794751
>Eastern
That's a fuckton of different cultures and languages

>>7795651
and they are, in aggregate and in general, very different from western cultures/languages - more so than the differences among western cultures

>>7795637
>self- taught
I'm studying english for recognition but I had such a hugely interest on learning chinese. Let's say I don't know anything more than 你好. How can I start? Do you know any website where I can learn? How much time would it take me? I'm sorry for too many questions

>>7795494
If you're going to keep casually using a derogatory slur for--God, I can't even imagine why--at least use them correctly, you fucking idiot. Gook isn't a word for Chinese people, especially not when you're trying to differentiate them from another group of Asians.

>>7795669

>being this new

wew...

>>7795656
Sure, but that doesn't mean it's "retarded" to make translations. Even if a good translator fails to achieve the supposed ideal of perfectly communicating the spirit and style of the original work, then at least this "new" work exists.

>>7795676
>lmao you don't get it, I'm just using the wrong racial slur as a meme

And...?

>>7795683
操 你 妈
你
妈

>>7795667

Get a proper textbook/answer book and work through it. Study it like you would in school.

A lot of them come with CDs/etc so you can learn the proper pronunciation; though Japanese has the benefit of having very few sounds. In fact, the total sounds are around 130; it's a fixed number I can't recall off the top of my head.

English, however, has over 8000 sounds; and they are extremely inconsistent in regards to the way words are spelled, to the point that English is actually more of a 'learning by wrote' language than most people realize.

There are also websites you can find, I would imagine, to actually speak to natives themselves; via Skype/etc. This is invaluable, nowadays; people can spend years learning a language, only to find themselves stumped when it comes to real life use.

>>7795669

What's the problem, baby-muncher? Looks like you have a Chink in your metaphorical armour, there.

Is your problem my incorrect use of a slur, or the fact I'm using them in general? Because if it's the latter, know that I was being casual/insincere; and that even if I wasn't, you need to fuck off back to whatever Safe Space you crawled out of.

>>7795689
Thanks :) I'm on the way to buy some textbook.

>>7795689

>What's the problem, baby-muncher?
Not Chinese.

>Is your problem my incorrect use of a slur, or the fact I'm using them in general?
These aren't mutually exclusive.

>know that I was being casual/insincere
When will you realize that doing something "insincerely" is a stupid & vapid excuse? Being stupid or ignorant "insincerely" is just a different kind of bad.

>even if I wasn't, you need to fuck off back to whatever Safe Space you crawled out of

Following that brief concession you just made, your aggression just makes you seem super defensive. Calm down, dude, no one is actually offended here.

>>7795202

because of china's growing importance and increased exposure to the west

I'm fascinated by Chinese culture and history, lately I've bought Mr. Ma and Son by Lao She and Fortress Besieged by Qian Zhongshu. Any other recommendations for essential classical Chinese lit?

>>7795746
four novels, plum golden vase, investiture of the gods
four books and five classics
the collected works of jin yong

幸会 我的朋友们!

>>7795576
顶

Has anyone here read 残雪's 山上的小屋?I only just read it and would like to chat about it...

>>7795600
>This isn't really a thing any more with younger generations
goddamn americanization

>>7795725
it was a joke guy

>>7795202
because there's an idea that chinese is the next big thing. it's been growing in our generation, and the recent(2-3 years) activity/exposure of chinese has created an influx of college age people who are suddenly interested in Chinese culture

same reason we became fascinated with Japan in the 70s

Whoever makes these threads is the type of person I might like to hang out with.

>>7797802

True. On the one hand, it made my life easier; as someone learning Japanese.

On the other hand, I don't think the onus is on the natives of a country to make the learning of their language any easier for foreigners. To borrow and adapt from a certain US President, it's not about what they can do for you, but what you can do for them.

>>7797826

>because there's an idea that chinese is the next big thing

Sadly, the idea isn't far from the mark; which is a pity because China is the 'asshole cousin' of Asia, whereas Japan is your 'chill bro'.

>>7799696
>Sadly, the idea isn't far from the mark; which is a pity because China is the 'asshole cousin' of Asia, whereas Japan is your 'chill bro'.

>weeaboos believe this

>>7799696
Japan was a raging asshole to all of Asia for almost a century.

>>7799699
>>7799703

I mean Post-WW2 Japan, after they were neutered by a couple of nukes.

Post-WW2 is officially chill. This is common knowledge.

Don't pretend the Chinese dindu nuffin. Throughout history, they've simply been too economically incompetent to match (or exceed) the Japanese.

For example: Empress Dowager Cixi pouring money into restoring the Summer Palace towards the end of the 19th Century, whilst Japan was pouring money into Western ships for their Navy. Don't even get me started on the 20th century.

>>7799716
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: revisionist weeaboo faggot.

>>7799716
>Throughout history, they've simply been too economically incompetent to match (or exceed) the Japanese.

lol i dont even know where to begin with this but im guessing you dont know much of anything before 1800

>>7799721

>Chang dindu nuffin!
>Ni hao muffucka

>>7799737
>implying

not everyone calling out your weeaboo faggotry is a chink retard