any good books that serve as a good intro / overview to / of

Beauvoir's Second Sex? I have a friend that swears by it.

Oh and for care ethics, look in to Rudolf Steiner.

the golden notebook^1

1. i don't really know if this does or not

>>7658231
>Rudolf Steiner
who dat

>>7658229
Currently reading that for school, and while it is a decent text and foundational, it doesn't give an overview of feminist theory and has nothing to do with care ethics. OP should look elsewhere unless he's interested in a historical/existential take on woman's situation

>>7658246

He wrote a lot about care and ethics, looking after retards and what not especially. Came up with Anthroposophy and Waldorf Schools.

>>7658252

Appreciated, thanks for clearing that up for me. It has been on my list for a while.

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>>7658214
Anything by this cow

>>7658288
http://www.iep.utm.edu/care-eth/

this is what I mean by care ethics

Judith Butler.

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>>7658229
leon the professional, fifth element and lucy nicely sums it up if you're lazy though.

leon is simone as a teenager, fifth element is her later in her teens and lucy is her after discovering that she is infertile and redefining herself as a barren hag.

>>7658252
what specific kind of feminism?
http://torquere.journals.yorku.ca/index.php/torquere/article/download/36586/33237

this nicely sums up the bizarro toronto school of feminism which is so widely popular thanks to tumblr lately.

>trannies are shit
>because not real women
>only a woman can understand trannies
>trannies are not shit
>but also they are not women only a man, tranny or not real woman would say that and therefor trannies are shit


or just this comic.

>>7658315
you shut your mouth when you talk about aunt andrea

>>7658591
I'm not sure why you replied to me, but de Beauvoir is much more intelligent than that comic, I just don't think she's a great place to learn about the movement of feminist thought as a whole. As I understand it, French feminism was before all the gender queer type stuff.

Also the only reason some women would need sexual validation like what is represented in that comic is because that's the only route they were given/feel is open to them through a male-dominated perspective on society.

>>7658591
>leon the professional, fifth element and lucy nicely sums it up if you're lazy though.
how come? I've seen all these movies but I really fail to see it from a feminist angle

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>>7658642

The only reason she's a feminist is because she is fat and has gone through life screaming >muh feelings when someone insults her for being fat.


Identity politics has NO place in a true leftist/socialist movement. Deviating from class struggle and turning the movement into a victim parade is self defeating and divides the proletariat. It's no coincidence that so many high profile feminists are also members of the bourgeois class and seek to divide the people and "revolt" against "patriarchy" when really "patriarchy" is not the problem. Most issues surrounding inequality can be solved through ECONOMICS and don't require modern feminism which states that they are for equality between the sexes but really are a female supremacist movement which has significant backing from members of the bourgeois class.

Just look at shit like this. In my city, the public transportation authority recently shifted entirely from paper/traditional bus/train tickets to electronic passes you have to "tap in" whenever you board, and "tap out" whenever you leave. A womens group here is saying that this is concerning because now abusive partners can control/track women.

http://www.cknw.com/2016/01/31/womens-groups-concerned-with-compass-card-tracking/


Um, just what the fuck? This is exactly what I am talking about. Victim complex, making it all about identities and how patriarchy is seeking to control women. The main concern here is that in general, agencies like CSEC (Canadian NSA) can track locations of people, who are potential "threats" to national security. This is just one example of utter stupidity by feminists who not only are completely arrogant when it comes to the system they live in, but actually uphold it voluntarily and unknowingly.

>Oh look at me I do yoga, shop at Lulu Lemon and buy my coffee at starbucks haha fuck patriarchy I can walk around naked if I want to!

Problems regarding inequality stem from the type of capitalist system we have, exploitation of the working class as well as exploitation of works and resources in developing nations.

If these stupid, mostly white college aged twats who probably come from middle-upper middle class families could pull their heads out of their ass and stop letting their emotions dictate their world view, I might actually take them seriously.

>>7658770
not going to read a bunch of bot spam, pal

>>7658770

You are a sad young woman between the ages of 19 and 24, and you have my pity. sage.

>>7658793
>>7658795

Typical responses I was expecting. Don't actually try to prove how the modern feminist movement stands for equality between the sexes, just spew a load of shit.


Everything I said has merit and is 100% true. The vast majority of these self righteous, feminist college aged cunts who parade around screaming about rape culture and holding signs that say "fuck patriarchy" who for fucks sake live in FIRST WORLD NATIONS and have access to all basic resources and an abundance of luxuries stand up for and try to actually assist the average TRULY oppressed women in countries like Saudi Arabia and the like. And when I say "assist" I mean actually assist, not make a few facebook statuses and tumblr posts about privilege. Modern feminism has absolutely nothing positive to contribute besides a New York City sized dump of useless emotions and period blood stained tampons.

>>7658820

don't stand up for*

>>7658820

>100% true.
>The vast majority

Well you've fallen at the first hurdle there.

>>7658829

No you're just cherry picking and misinterpreting the points I'm making to fit your biased agenda. Modern feminists have no interest in equality. Equality is found in egalitarianism which is a belief held my an incredible amount of people universally. Modern feminism is tantamount to social authoritarianism and in order to achieve equality needs to be viewed as just another elitist attempt to divide proletarians and ultimately abolished.

>>7658848

That's a bunch of loud foul mouthed arseholes making the rest look bad, and people at uni going a bit over the edge when they learn about intersectional feminism.

Most feminists, myself included, just want an equal society. Folk would probably be fine with egalitarian as a name if it wasn't so associated with men who want women to shut the fuck up or ignore their problems because others have it worse, a sort of extreme version of "eat your greens, there are starving kids in Muntab".

>>7658867

>Most feminists, myself included, just want an equal society.

I am not an equally retarded Male Rights Activist, but no, feminists don't want an equal society. Even though "equality" is in theory part of the feminist ideology, feminists have not exercised it and have not taken any initiatives to ensure this. A few examples are:

No attention drawn to the male rape epidemic which occurs primarily in prisons.

No attention drawn to male human trafficking. Although women make up a majority of people who are trafficked, many men are sold as well often for the purposes of forced labour, and many younger boys are sexually exploited as well. I've never seen a feminist or ever read a feminist article shining light on this issue. It's always focused on the females.


Pushing in favour of women in the divorce courts. This one is obvious.

No attention drawn to (at least to my knowledge) the major issue of false rape accusations against men. It's no secret that many men are falsely accused to sexual crimes. There is a long list of men who have been exonerated, sometimes decades after conviction, and an even bigger amount of men who have had their reputations tarnished, and sometimes even serve a prison sentence for something they didn't do.


I could go on and on. Feminism is riddled with hypocrisy, fueled by members of the bourgeois and is poison to the left.

>>>/trash/

>>7658867

Feminists use the label of a movement for equality to wage social warfare and have a safety net. You're an idiot. My guess is you're probably male too. If so, just cut your balls off.

>>7658901

Those are all solid points that need to be corrected, couldn't disagree with you at all there.

>>7658935

What caused you to become a (male?) feminist?

If you want equality, why not be a socialist/egalitarian, or hell even communist. These are all things with the ultimate goal of social and economic equality.

>>7658945
you do know that all communist organizations that aren't shit are still feminist?

>>7658945

Mostly because people who identify as egalitarian are racist or against women or at least very angry about women in some way, whether they see it or not.

I do agree it is the ideal term. I am a man, yes.

>>7658214
Schopenhauer's "on women"

>>7658991

>That aren't shit

Nah. Maybe in your retarded "privileged" countries where the idea of communist revolution that "communist" organizations have is putting on a Guy Fawkes mask and throwing pebbles at CEO's.

>>7659016

That simply isn't true. Many women are egalitarian, the idea of egalitarianism has been around for centuries. Even if you still refuse to label yourself as egalitarian, why deflect to another movement which hides behind the drapes of "equality" to further their agenda? You can just tell people that you believe in equality why do you have to label yourself?

How would you feel if I told you that most people who identify as feminists are sexist and against men or at least very angry about men in some way, whether they see it or not? Clearly the track record of feminists standing up for male rights is terrible so what I'm saying actually does have a degree of validity to it. I have absolutely not a single gram of respect for you as a human being. You are truly a hypocrite and a complete and utter metaphorically castrated moron. The very notion that you believe in and want equality but yet are hesitant to associate yourself with the label of egalitarianism so you deflect to a movement who claims to stand for equality but actually isn't is just mind boggling. What the fuck was your college major? I want to know right now. Who the fuck taught you critical thinking skills? Oh wait, absolutely nobody because if they had, you wouldn't be spewing the drivel that you are.


Just be honest. She friendzoned you, she's a feminist, and you think that following her into feminism will make her be attracted to you right?

>>7659031

Can confirm

>>7659069

I'll have you know that I never finished college and buggered off instead. I'll have a think about what you've said, but I'd say everyone I spend time with would label themselves a feminist, men and women alike from all manner of countries and backgrounds.

Maybe things are just different in whatever country you live in?

>>7658820

This misses the larger point, which is that you yourself are (judging by your writing) a comfy first world late-adolescent who has the free time to think about these things, yet has not aged enough to stop being so annoyingly strident about politics.

You are a college-going young woman between the ages of 19 and 24, and as Woman, you are insanely jealous of the prettier and richer women, which jealousy you have sublimated into your idea of principled leftism on this Balinese puppet show.

ITT virgins

>>7659098

>You are a college-going young woman between the ages of 19 and 24, and as Woman, you are insanely jealous of the prettier and richer women, which jealousy you have sublimated into your idea of principled leftism on this Balinese puppet show.

I never in this thread mentioned anything about my age, sex, country of origin, socioeconomic status, romantic life, education or even really anything besides hinting at what side I lean towards politically. Yet, your entire post is riddled with infantile assumptions about my character and personal life, most of it incorrect. In the nicest way possible, please pause for a moment, to take a few steps back and reflect on what a complete and utter fucking idiot you are. Thanks.

>>7659069
where are you coming from and what experience do you have with communist organizing?

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>>7658697
not so much feminism, but the genital fixation that comes with female intellectualism. I kind of fail to see it as an over riding element of male intellectualism although it's certainly there.
lucy:
>incision is around her reproductive organs
>need to define herself by her cunt
>constant contemplation of reproduction
>phone call with mother
>flicking through time to see her ancestor
>men are impotent
>when she kisses the frenchy police officer, a reminder
>the conclusion when she turns herself into a usb drive
>choice between reproduction and immortality
>having children or self-actualization on a grander scale

leon the professional
>obsession with disney like love
>traditional marriage
>pair bonding
>motherhood
>the transfer of the paternal role from her parents to leon, her now lover and surrogate father

fifth element
>breeding
>holy grail shit


>>7658657
yeah simone is typical of feminism though
>wealthy
>completely removed from the bounds of the ordinary woman
>promiscuous
I almost puke everytime she skips from lover to lover
>actually impossible for her to conceive, removing the threat or possibility of pregnancy forcing herself to redefine herself as something other than mother
the thing is that her lifestyle was only possible because of her tremendous wealth and station. the rarity of a university educated woman in europe was high due to economic constraints. most families couldnt afford to pay their daughters through university.
no contraception meant her general promiscuity was only possible because of this. there could be no scandal of a child out of wedlock. her sexual liberation was completely beyond the reach of most women, making her work completely inaccessible to them.

>>7659179

None of your concern. All you need to know is that I'm not originally from North America and I consider the new age of liberal leftism in Western countries a complete joke and a cancer which is detrimental to achieving progress.

For example people think that accepting all immigrants into their Western countries is the "morally correct" thing to do because as privileged first worlders it's their duty to help those less fortunate. Well, why are the people leaving their countries in the first place? It's because the countries are largely shit. Hardly any jobs, low wages if they do find a job, limited human rights, wars, too many things to go on. And why are these countries shit? Because of Western capitalist exploitation and imperialism. Corporations who set up shop in a developing nation, pay workers pennies to work in sometimes unsafe conditions to make materialistic goods for consumers in Western countries. The margins are so high so the people in charge thrive and make billions, and a lot dodge taxes. Anytime a leader threatens to shift away from the US dollar like Gaddafi did with his proposition of the Gold African Dinar he ends up dead at the hands of Western imperialist financed mercenaries and CIA paramilitary forces (who were part of the Libyan uprising). I just laugh at most of the so called progressives here. You don't know the first thing about progress or doing what is morally correct because you're all so dumb and blind.

>>7658657
and no. it's because that's all they're worth. failing to define themselves as something other than a sex/gestation object, that is the only form of validation available to them.

simone was essentially gender queer by her inability to concieve. she was woman yet not woman, as described in her works. by her lack of desirability as wife material for the very reason that a man would marry. for this reason and because of the resources available to her, not needing to work to support herself and unable to fulfill the role of a wife in a traditional sense, to bear children, she was able to transcend this.

also she was wayyy after chopin. there is a long history of gender queer people in history. chopins life partner was transgender. so it existed. it just wasnt this huge i need to cut off my dick to feel validated nonsense that we have now.

>>7658820
i'm sure a typical response you get is to not can your responses

>>7659232

Sexual reassignment surgery is horrible and I am strongly against it. Many, many people who go through with it, become depressed later on in life and have a suicide/suicide attempt rate that is extremely higher than average. About 20% of people regret it, and 40% attempt suicide. Sexual reassignment is simply feeding into what is now not considered a disorder because of political pressure. Many psychiatrists still feel transgender people need help. Cutting off their genitals is not the solution to making them feel better as statistics have shown.

>>7659243
a higher mortality rate you mean.
the suicide rate prevs post-op was debunked but the fishiness of the higher rate of death relating to things like drug overdoses and car crashes is difficult to call suicide definitively.

still a much higher rate of suicide and mortality vs the general population though.

personally, this is my take on it. it's an attempt to completely abnigate and nullify their identity in an intellectual fashion. if they just cut their dicks off, nobody can ever hurt them that way again. and that person will cease to exist with their rebirth into their new identity with the various reconstructive surgeries.

>>7659232
i love your stuff, man

>>7659162

>I'll use 'infantile' and put my hands on my hips yeah that's the ticket

You are a college-going young woman between the ages of 19 and 24, and as Woman, you are insanely jealous of the prettier and richer women, which jealousy you have sublimated into your idea of principled leftism on this Balinese puppet show.

>>7658214
>/
Fuck off, faggot

>>7658867
We already have an equal society. Name one thing men get to do that women don't. You worthless cunts are even moving into the infantry.

>>7658770
Lmfao try thr Deleuze perspective you naive simpleton

>>7659664

Wrong wrong wrong

>current year
are people still arguing over the WORD feminism? It's been called that since before you were born, its not a terrifying "Planet of the Apes" style society inversion, you know what it means and what its stated goals are, stop listening to pol

>>7658820
>Everything I said has merit and is 100% true.

>The only reason she's a feminist is because she is fat and has gone through life screaming >muh feelings when someone insults her for being fat.

I'm no lover of Dworkin but, come now.

>>7661988

You are a college-going young woman between the ages of 19 and 24, and as Woman, you are insanely jealous of the prettier and richer women, which jealousy you have sublimated into your idea of principled leftism on this Balinese puppet show.

>>7659069

listen man i'm not even saying this because i disagree with you, im sincerely letting you know

you are a fucking idiot. you need to take a break from this whole issue.

>>7658770
you can't think, please die

>>7662314

Nope.

>>7662340
>>7662769

Oh what do we have here? A couple of new (probably) liberal leftist morons completely blind about how their society works. You know, the least you could have done is actually try to refute the points I've made besides having a hissy fit.

>>7659069
Essentially, the main thing that is preventing progress in both egalitarianism and feminism is the connotations of their name. In theory, they both stand for the same thing: total equality between the sexes. What's tripping both up is egalitarianism's association with extreme men's rights activists and feminism's association with yelling tumblr cunts. Every time someone comes up with a new name, it too becomes tainted with these associations, which impedes progress. They argument shouldn't be egalitarianism vs feminism, because every individual seems to have a slightly different definiton of each movement depending on their experience. The main focus should be on how to promote gender equality as a whole, which must address the rights of both men and women, because you can't have one without the other: The traditional ideal of men being dominant/assertive and women being weak/submissive causes women to make up vast majority of rape victims AND causes male victims of rape to be ignored. In order for such systemic problems to be approached, both sides of the dichotomy must be addressed simultaneously, without too much fuss over what exactly the movement should be called.

>>7662949

>They argument shouldn't be egalitarianism vs feminism, because every individual seems to have a slightly different definiton of each movement depending on their experience. The main focus should be on how to promote gender equality as a whole, which must address the rights of both men and women, because you can't have one without the other: The traditional ideal of men being dominant/assertive and women being weak/submissive causes women to make up vast majority of rape victims AND causes male victims of rape to be ignored. In order for such systemic problems to be approached, both sides of the dichotomy must be addressed simultaneously, without too much fuss over what exactly the movement should be called.


Yeah I'll give you that one. Not being sarcastic, you really are the voice of reason. We should all take a few steps back from the labels eh?

>>7658642
>there are actual, living human beings who think Andrea Dworkin is anything other than insane
Jesus.

>>7658770
>leftypol strawmanning the ever loving christ out of people they disagree with
Why am I not surprised lmao

>>7663071
>strawman
That image is entirely accurate.

>>7663079
I could go through and point out all the bullshit on the "far right" side of the chart, but it would be a waste of time. I'm well aware how much your kind hates honest discussion.

>>7663082
>I could go through and point out all the bullshit on the "far right" side of the chart
>This butthurt /pol/cunt.
Yeah, because you stormfags are really open to discussion.

>>7663083
>here's a shitty biased chart that shows why my ideology is objectively superior
>no, follower of one of the mocked ideologies, this chart is 100% factually accurate and what you do or don't claim to believe is relevant
>Fucking /pol/weenie stormcunt! Go be close minded somewhere else!
I really hope this is some meta bait, your lack of self awareness is astounding.

>>7663090
>/pol/nigger spouting about self-awareness
I would advise that you return to leddit.

>>7663071

The image is completely correct.

>>7663095
You can't even decide on a place to tell me to return to, this is beautiful. I am more than happy for you to continue browsing here because I am an adult and don't mind people disagreeing with me :^)

>>7663082
Then do, because I'm only seeing shit /pol/ says.

>>7663082
If anything the image is unfair to the liberal left, the rest is pretty solid.

>>7663100
>/pol/
This may shock and anger you but there are many people who are right wing who don't browse /pol/, because they're not 14. If your entire conception of an ideological movement is derived from an anime imageboard then you're an idiot and lacking perspective. Why would I bother talking to someone who is clearly so close minded?

>>7662340

Beta friendzoned fag detected

>>7663099
>I am an adult and don't mind people disagreeing with me :^)
Your chimpout suggests otherwise ;^)

>>7663106
>all people who are right wing are of the far left
Next you'll tell me that the socialist movement section misrepresents radical environmentalists.

>>7663113
>you're not far right because you don't fit into my shallow misconception of far right thinking

>>7663119
As I said, please explain to me the inconsistencies. Just green texting me isn't an argument.

>>7663120

This. Explain how the chart which contrasts the socialist movement, new liberal left and far right is wrong. It's actually quite accurate and until someone can present valid arguments about WHY it's inaccurate and wrong, all the overemotional babies in this thread can sit down and shut up. I have not seen 1 valid argument in this thread and actually disproves the facts the chart puts forward. All I see is people calling the poster a fucking idiot and other insults but no VALID argument. Typical far right members and new liberal left idiots.

>>7663120
>I use the problems caused by capitalism to mend capitalism
The problem is a consumerist and material culture, not capitalism. You use trade to bolster the economy and you foster an environment of National pride and a focus on the immaterial (religion, family, nature) in the people to avoid product fetishism. All corporations are controlled by the government to make sure they don't overstep their bounds.
>muh Jews
There's a fair amount of debate on Jews in the far right, I personally don't subscribe to any Learned Elders type conspiracy theory, but I believe they should be in Israel instead of European nations. They do seem effective at coopting power structures and are typically over represented at the top rungs of society.
>gassed
Given how many members of the (National Socialist) segment of the far right are holocaust revisionists and deniers, this is another misrepresentation.
>Traditional Values
I've never heard any prominent far right thinker talk about this affording of privilege to those of "healthy genes". Fascist society typically places emphasis on heroes, soldiers and the like who distinguished themselves with bravery in battle. If anyone would be afforded special privileges, it would be them. Eugenicists are a minority and only they believe in predestination of social classes, so claiming that equality in outcome or opportunity would be limited is suspect.
>socio economic privilege is born from natural privilege
This is probably the more accurate point of the bunch. I don't consider privilege a result of genetics though, I consider it a birth right. Europeans should be the ones entitled to European fruits of labour because their ancestors are the ones who have worked that land for thousands of years. In fact, I would even argue that it isn't privilege. I very much view the family as one extended being, and any wealth you are born into was in fact earned by your forebears.

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>>7663133
>forebears

>>7663133

>Being far right

Being far right is the antithesis to the very values of The Enlightenment. Not challenging authority and blindly following leaders who make racial/cultural promises is basically surrendering your mind.

> Europeans should be the ones entitled to European fruits of labour because their ancestors are the ones who have worked that land for thousands of years

So you would be ok with the Western bourgeois stopping their exploitation of the workers of the third world, yes? You would be ok with shutting down all Western corporate factories in developing nations and letting the people of (insert any developing nation) have the right to the resources that belong to them, right? I find it so hypocritical and ironic that you say a group of people should be entitled to the fruits of their labour because their ancestors were there first and worked so hard, yet you probably turn a blind eye to Western European imperialism and current corporate/globalist exploitation of workers in the third world.

>>7663157
>So you would be ok with the Western bourgeois stopping their exploitation of the workers of the third world, yes?
Yes. It's disgusting and amoral behaviour that only seeks to drive Western economies to environmentally unsustainable levels.

>everyone stops replying as soon as I agree to actually point out why the chart was wrong
Can't say I'm not surprised.

>>7663195
Well done faggot.

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>>7663195
I just can't be bothered. Seriously. You basically proved the spirit of the image - i.e, you're insane.

>>7663204
At first I refused to refute it because I knew you weren't interested in actual discussion, but then you accused me of being close minded so I decided to humour you, you immediately switch to shitposting and claiming you're above it. You're wilfully ignorant and pathetic tbqh

>>7663208
I was hoping that you wouldn't be spouting the same tired old rhetoric, and yet here we are.

>>7663208
So Enlightened.

>>7658770
agreed

>>7658867
>or ignore their problems because others have it worse
that's pretty much simple triage
and middle class college educated western white women complaining that they're underprivileged is disgusting

>>7658770
Wow that triggered me, I always stress cultural change but I don't wanna be grouped with idpol. Guess it's a stupid thing to let someones homespun generalisation offend you, who could've know.

Anything by Virginia Woolf.

>>7663075
Why are they all written by Jews?

>>7659300
thanks man

>>7663075
they also hate germaine greer and the myth of male power
>tfw be supreme gentleman with collection of high brow feminist lit
>gf turns into epic tumblrite
>get shit on constantly
>she threatens to burn my library
>explain why emma watson UN address was relevant to her
>she calls her too moderate
>walks out
>three days later she's in a butch dyke with better game than me
>a year later never been happier

>>7658770
you're not leftist
stop living a lie
>/pol/
>/leftypol/

>>7664188

>You don't approve women rallying for more rights than men therefore you're not a leftist even though I prescribe to many of Marx's viewpoints mentioned in the manifesto and agree with all of Lenin's views in Imperialism the Highest Stage of Capitalism

That's why you're retarded.

>>7663555

>I always stress cultural change

And that is why you're retarded. You're not attempting to fit the root cause.

>>7664820

fight*

DIVIDE AND CONQUER