Is there any other art with a community as uninviting as Literature?

>you're just infatuated with the IDEA of writing

People don't think you have to work at writing, purely because everyone can write these days. Drawing for example is a skill that people with an interest in have to largely learn from scratch, so there's an understanding that you are going to have to work at. People have less delusion when it comes to drawing for example, because they know not everyone can do it, so they don't need to be told the drawing they crapped out after learning for a few weeks isn't that great.

>>7466629
>People don't think you have to work at writing, purely because everyone can write these days.

Yeah, and everyone can sketch a little too.

A bad sketch is just as cringe worthy as a bad bit of prose when the creator doesn't realize how bad it is, but it seems that most people would tell the sketcher, "You just need to work at it," while they'll tell the writer, "You're not actually a writer, better try your hand at something else."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susannahbreslin/2012/06/12/why-you-shouldnt-be-a-writer/

>>7466565
Music has BY FAR the highest barrier of entry.

>>7467570

Having a music channel on youtube seems like the easiest thing to do

>>7466565
>Is there any other art...
No, probably not
>Why?
Because writers are the most insecure artists. This is the biggest reason, and that is god's honest truth. There are many other reasons, though, which is in part to say that >>7466629 is correct. Another thing is that almost everyone can recognize good technical skill in the other arts. If your prose is bad, you might still be praised by people who have no idea what they're talking about, and so you come to believe that you have skill when you don't. This means that you're probably inflating the degree to which the community is unwelcoming because you're overestimating how much you deserve to be welcomed. It also means that people who are actually good at writing are pissed off at you by default, because they're accustomed to having to deal with competition that's significantly beneath them, which is irritating and depressing.

>>7467942
>because they're accustomed to having to deal with competition that's significantly beneath them, which is irritating and depressing.

I would LOVE to live in a world where a significant portion of my competition was beneath me.

Why the hell would that upset someone?

>>7467561
>adblock blocker
no thx

>>7467887
and you can make a wordpress/tumblr blog too

>>7467955
Depressing and irritating because you fail while you lessers succeed

>>7467570
If you're trying to be a pop artist maybe. I have an uncle who makes good money conducting, and his wife plays the french horn.

>>7467961

Yes, but being able to play an instrument is much more respected in today's society than being able to write.

Look at the different reactions one get's between saying "I play the guitar" and "I write poetry"

>>7466565
because the unconscious is structured like a language, and not everyone has what it takes to open ego qua floodgate holding back this unconscious

>>7466565
Everybody can write to a certain extent. The pros want to preserve their monopoly. the technical barriers are mich higher for say music or drawing, so less general discoutagement, and fewer fakers

>>7466565

Never trust anyone who says they are a writer.

The "writing community" is a pile of cancer jaded cucks who are sour grapes because they never made it.


That all being said, music you can have fun at a mediocre level with friends, singing drawing painting are all kind of fun just through the process.

>>7467561

>Forbes

Probably the most shameful quasi-clickbait site on the net. At least Huffpost and Salon 'sort of' understand their ignoble condition.

>>7468443

Who should I trust for advice about writing then?

>>7468482

No one, because you shouldn't need advice. You either are a writer or you're not.

>>7466565

Drawing/painting requires pretty regular study and practice of several subjects (perspective, anatomy, color compositions, and how the manipulate/join each together for a strong piece) if you're aiming to be good. Same goes for Music (although you can "cheat" this to the average person if you memorize 6-7 core chords; a professional, however, will see right through it).

Writing and Literature also have fundamentals in grammar, punctuation, and everything we've been drilled with since elementary. You can be extremely good in the technical sense of writing, but it'll typically become boring (akin to the 6-7 core chords trick I mentioned) since it'll most likely be dry as fuck. You can gloss this over by having creative ideas (combinations of setting, characters, themes, and narrative) or having killer prose (which you have to be careful with or else you'll have the dreaded Purple Prose).

Like Music and Art, you just have to figure out what your strengths are in Writing. If you're strong in the technical sense for example, that can save you tremendous time and headaches in the editing/revising process. Ideas are cheap (look up any basic storytelling, tropes, the Monomyth, etc.) and you'll quickly realize it's really just mixing things up and making it work in the structural sense of a story. I've never been too big of a stickler on prose, though, since I'll typically like the ideas/combinations being presented rather than beautifully crafted language. Philip K. Dick is a good example of this: Great ideas, but his prose can be pretty shitty.

tl;dr Figure out your strengths, and use it to your advantage or as a redeeming feature if you can't improve other areas of your writing.

>>7466565
what the fuxk is the literature community? those smelly fellas down at the coffee shop?

>>7467570
It's mostly the market, I figure. Entry level music equipment costs a few hundred units of guap. A decent painting setup seems to range between $50-100. Writing? Well, fuck me in the nostril with your micropenis senpai, because a notebook and pencil costs you just about as much moolah as seven lamborghinis and a yacht.

>>7468482
Trust nobody, not even yourself.

File: 1397358178094.png (8KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 400x400px

>>7468482
Trust in the Lord.

>>7466565
>Why is this?
confirmation bias on your part?

>>7468443
Are you >implying that writing isn't fun

>>7468482
Do not listen to that anon. It sounds like he's had a bad experience. Well I've had great experiences with my writing groups on both coasts.

As a rule of thumb, trust the writers who are better than you are. There are exceptions of course but generally they've figured out more than you have.

>>7468482

When someone tells you something doesn't work in your writing, listen.

When someone tells you how to change something in your writing, listen, but don't do it,

>>7468849
I figure you can always trust someone who is successful since he has nothing to gain by fucking you over and everything to gain by you becoming successful aswell and giving him credit, calling him out as some sort of a mentor or whatever but I feel you should doubt everything someone unsuccessful who thinks he's better than you since he will probably keep a few things to himself in order to maintain his advantage but ofcourse this isn't true in every case and a lot of times people generally want to help you but you should never expect it.

General rule of thumb is, you can learn something from everyone. But don't be so naive as to believe everything people say. Believe it or not you just got schooled by a 19 year old.

>>7468821

Milton go to bed

>>7469764

Not while one unsaved soul still posts

>>7469747
>I figure you can always trust someone who is successful since he has nothing to gain by fucking you over

Sure he has something to lose, if you get successful too you might take away readers that might of gone to him

>>7466565
>>Drawing, everyone will tell you that anyone can do it, you just have to practice and keep at it.
>
>Music, same thing, every musician tells you it comes down to practice and determination.

Those fucking lying cunts.

>>7472094
You are what you practice everyday.

This has never been a secret.

>>7467973
Uh, hate to break it to you, but if YOU fail and someone else succeeds... that some else is not your lesser.

>>7472823
>Stephanie Meyer is superior to Pynchon because she sold more books!

If that's actually the stance you want to take you need to fuck off forever

>>7472850
>pinecone
>failure
uwotm8.epub

>>7472850

But Meyer hasn't sold more than Pynchon?

>>7469696
I've done this and had great results.

>>7472850
Success=/=financial wealth.
Stephanie is an aesthetic failure whilst pynchon is a success to a degree.

>>7472902
>Stephanie is an aesthetic failure

That's just, like, your opinion, man

Meanwhile money is an objective number.

>>7474168
Go back to, I don't know, /biz/ or wherever else this opinion might possibly be relevant
In other words, get out

>>7471846
Yeah because that's how things work, people only read 1 book in their lifetime.
And think of it this way, aristotle is more famous than plato generally speaking, yet if I read aristotle, liked him and found out that plato was his mentor I would be driven to read his works rather than not.
I'll try this another way since you seem like you're stupid.
Tiger woods was the best golfer in the world, he isn't anymore but he still wants to be and is trying his best. Yet the younger golfers who are now better than him often call him for advice on a lot of things and he happily gives it to them because that's how successful people are.
It's the same in the business world but I figure you wouldn't know that either

>>7474492

>My analogy that applied to the topic at hand didn't work, so let me use analogies applying to topics not at hand~

Sempai

>>7474492
>Yeah because that's how things work, people only read 1 book in their lifetime.

No, but when the population barely reads one book per year, it kinda matters that your competition is as low as possible.

>>7474364

Just saying if we're going to be throwing around words like success, you've got to make it clear how we're going to somehow measure it.

If not money, then what? New York Times book reviews? Number of college classes given on the author?

>>7475425
>"""""art""""" """"""""communities""""""""

>>7474528
Actually just trying to make lesser minds understand, you probly wouldn't know that feels though

>>7474531
Right pick that out as the only arguement you can fathom an answer to.

>>7466565
>"You either are a writer or you're not, it's not something you can just work at" or "If you don't do A, B, and C like I do, you're not really a writer, you're just infatuated with the IDEA of writing"
Have never heard this. Are you projecting and/or upset? Maybe you should drink some hot cocoa and relax. Maybe you shouldn't think so hard about writing. Maybe you should take control over your life. Maybe you shouldn't be so lazy. maybe you should try harder.

>>7475425
I would argue that the answer is lives touched but that would be hard to measure though wouldn't it.

>>7475719
This is a good idea, but how do measure the number of people whom a work has touched? Perhaps by units of writing sold and adaptions of works created, indicating the largest dispersal across the greatest audience?

Oh look, Meyers beats Pynchon again.

>>7475425
judging art is very subjective and very tricky. the solution to this problem is certainly not evaluating art based on its commerical value. anyone who thinks this is either autistic or has been in a coma from 1900 up until one hour ago

>>7475715

Ironically, that's a very projective post right there, senpai

>>7475709

But you didn't respond to his point so why respond at all?

>>7475848
>Oh look, Meyers beats Pynchon again.
Perhaps its time to face the facts then.

>>7475493

an even number of quotation marks around something means there are no quotation marks around it. Each pair cancels itself out.