I just finished both the Iliad and the Odyssey. Do you guys have

The Aeneid, of course...

The Iliad and Odyssey exalt the nobility of Honor.

The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.

Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.

Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.

Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.

Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."

And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.

Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.

A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”

But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

And of course Socrates mentored Plato who mentored Aristotle who mentored Copernicus/Newton/Galileo, who gave birth to Western Science and Technology and Freedom, all via the Homeric Honor of Achilles.

>>10027207
Yeah, stuff like this is great. What I want is a book like this. Maybe discussing the themes of the idea of God, man, and beast, homecoming, fate, rage, honor, loyalty, etc.

I hadn't even considered the "Man versus State" interpretation of what he did, but it's great. Of course it's not like I have no thoughts about the themes, or interpretations of the text, but reading other people's opinions is almost always enlightening.

>>10027229
The Teaching Company's lecture on the Iliad by Vandiver is pretty good, I haven't read any books though.
There are also thousands of essays out there. I'd check out jstor or something.

>>10027145
The Aeneid is trash. It might as well have been written by the Board of Roman Propaganda.

>>10027119
Look up Simone Weil's essay 'The Iliad, or, the Poem of Force.'

>>10028556
I've already read it, and I thought her interpretation was very one-dimensional, even considering the context she was writing it in.

>>10027466
That's the problem, there are thousands of essays. I want to read secondary literature, but not become some scholar in these two books. I've got other stuff to read, so something general giving an overview of different themes and poetical substructure would be neat.

>>10029229
The intro essay Bernard Knox wrote for the penguin edition was good