Fuck me blind and call me stupid but how ISN'T Nietzsche's

File: download.jpg (6KB, 161x144px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 161x144px

>pursude

>>10026154
Sorry not a native speaker.

Anyways to the thread I want to stretch
>And thus the end result is hedonism because hedonism feeds or rather IS the source of your will to power and thus creative ability?
especially. I made some vague statements but this is the core I think.
end RESULT NOT end GOAL

>>10026148
As always it depends on how you use the word. Hedonism typically means that the pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain is what is to be desired, having certain versions that emphasise different things such as the avoidance of pain over attainment of pleasure for example (negative hedonism, like in Schopenhauer).

You have to keep in mind that "Macht" in German is something like capacity to do something rather than power in a general sense (hence the Auschwitz slogan "arbeit macht frei" using the word in the sense of "makes"). So for Nietzsche what is prioritized is the capacity of a drive rather than the result (which may not be pleasurable as such, although it can become that). The fact that pleasure is present is no problem for Nietzsche as long as it is secondary to what the drive can do.

Sade, before Freud, would of course say that sexuality is behind it all because everytime someone attains a goal the result is an increase in his sexual potential (looking at the sexual harrasment so prevalent in our day, he may be right), but for Nietzsche the drives looking to differentiate themselves from one another are "real" in that they fight for dominance over the "individual", they do not have a hidden agenda because they are the hidden agenda. The will to power is a fact before it is a prescription. We may make the Spinozist point that pleasure is a good indicator for a healthy and empowering combination, but that isn't always the case initially.

Besides, Nietzsche called Mill a blockhead because he made pleasure the unot of measurement rather than a byproduct.

All you're doing is basically arguing that we should consider all individual agency as stemming from the pursuit of pleasure. Your problem therefore is not restricted to neitsche, your argument would need to bleed into any consideration of personal motivation.

>fuck me blind
No.

>>10026199
*unit

>>10026199
>You have to keep in mind that "Macht" in German is something like capacity to do something
>So for Nietzsche what is prioritized is the capacity of a drive rather than the result
>The fact that pleasure is present is no problem for Nietzsche as long as it is secondary to what the drive can do.
Yes thank you. That is what I meant in >>10026157 . So I got that right?

>>10026148
Are you confusing Kraft and Macht?

>>10026200
>All you're doing is basically arguing that we should consider all individual agency as stemming from the pursuit of pleasure
Yes. To explain I was wondering what could be goals in life the dyonisian/Nietzschean would set himself and it always seemed to be stemming from the pursuit of pleasure/happiness.
I just wanted the part confirmed or corrected about how pleasure is an acceptable or even good byproduct of our will as long as it means an increased will to create
As all pursuits that neglect our desire for pleasure are not life affirming as "All lust wants eternity"

>>10026219
This may be possible. But no I didn't mean to narrow power to political power or status if that's what you imply.
Please elaborate

Because the will to power says what is good is the feeling of resistance being overcome, not happiness, not sensual pleasure, the feeling that you faced adversity and now you have overpowered it. To fully this moral outlook you also need to fully embrace suffering, hardship and weakness, as these are what makes power possible. These things are the true source of your will to power, the challenge of life is what fuels your overcoming.

>>10026231
>To fully this moral outlook you also need to fully embrace suffering, hardship and weakness, as these are what makes power possible
>the challenge of life is what fuels your overcoming.
Yeah I kind of got that but your point still helped me.
I didn't doubt that. What I mean is that the end goal is still the good feeling of overcoming. So a Nietzschean *in a way* still pursues happiness and happiness is not wrong if it fuels his overcoming right?

>>10026237
>So a Nietzschean *in a way* still pursues happiness and happiness is not wrong if it fuels his overcoming right?
Yes but what distinguishes it from hedonism is that he makes no effort to avoid pain. In fact he fully embraces it in pursuit of the feeling of heightened power.

If he took a more calculated hedonistic approach to values, in trying to get maximum net pleasure it would probably be better to just submit to resistance more often than not. As this comes with minimum suffering and potentially lots of happiness (as there are many resistance free ways to feel happy, Christianity and alcohol for instance). But Nietzsche fundamentally does not view life as a score which happiness adds to and pain subtracts from. He views them as two mutually complementary, and in fact co-dependent, aspects of life. The value of power is not that the pleasure of attaining it outweighs the suffering involved in overcoming, it's not a calculated decision in that way. It's more like being addicted to crack in that your next hit of power is all that you're living for regardless of all else.

>>10026257
>Yes but what distinguishes it from hedonism is that he makes no effort to avoid pain. In fact he fully embraces it in pursuit of the feeling of heightened power.
>If he took a more calculated hedonistic approach to values, in trying to get maximum net pleasure it would probably be better to just submit to resistance more often than not.
Got it. Thanks.
>like being addicted to crack in that your next hit of power is all that you're living for regardless of all else.
What does power here mean except "overcoming what stands between you and your goal"?

>>10026269
>What does power here mean except "overcoming what stands between you and your goal"?
Power in the sense of "the will to power" is a bit abstract but as another anon ITT said "You have to keep in mind that "Macht" in German is something like capacity to do something rather than power in a general sense ". Nietzsche distils this down to the overcoming of resistance, as it is through overcoming that you open up new options and potentialities for your life. By overcoming resistance in your life you are better able to imprint your will into the world, in other words you're more empowered for doing so.

To put it in context taken to a hyperbolic extreme if you were ever actually able to overcome all resistance ever and be unstoppable you would have to be an omnipotent god.

>>10026148
Greater power requires greater sacrifice for Nietzsche. There is nothing hedonistic about that.

>>10026148
>Fuck me blind and call me stupid but how ISN'T Nietzsche's will to power endorse hedonism?
Because to have Will to Power lift you to it's greatest hieghts, you need to be thoughtful and considerate.1920s are a perfect example of what happens when someone takes that philosophy on without consideration for where their actions may lead.
The Ubermensch killers in the

>>10026990
>The Ubermensch killers in the 1920s are a perfect example of what happens*