How many trannies agree with this person? Don't we need

>>8840202
SJW cancer.

Females, women, whatever.
Fuck the labels.

>>8840202
If you're looking for sjws you're barking up the wrong website

>>8840202
Nope. That's not how language works. Word meanings aren't defined by a top-down committee, but by popular usage. Female has two meanings (gender identity and physical body) and no poll or campaign will change that.

>>8840259
The problem is that insane trannies are trying to kill off the biological meaning altogether. We need a way to talk about sex, otherwise I'm not sure what will happen. Language needs to let us talk clearly about meaning, but that seems to be anathema to what trannies want.

>>8840266
You're speaking as if trannies have any significant influence. We don't need their permission to use language however we like, and if they wilfully misinterpret and become offended, that's really their problem. They're hardly essential to the functioning of society.

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>>8840313
> You're speaking as if trannies have any significant influence.

>>8840202
If she has a penis she is still biologically male, science doesn't care about her sjw feelings. I am using "she" because of her gender identity, not her sex.

>>8840266
Those aren't "insane trannies". Those are SJWs, who might be trans, but who many other trans people are tired of - especially when they give us a bad name by pulling shit like this. Example: Chimamana Ngozi Adichie's perspective, that trans women are trans women, is totally fine with me, but the left fringe just about boiled over because how DARE she imply trans women aren't LITERALLY THE SAME as cis women

>>8840333
Also want to add that MANY of the SJWs pushing this kind of thing aren't trans at all - usually young cis women looking for a cause to fight for, cause that's the trendy thing nowadays

idk biological has a lot of meanings

amab and afab work best

hormones are biological and mine are female so in that sense my biology is female because every cell in my body functions like they're female

though i have a dick so in that sense im biologically male but after srs i'll be neither lmao

idk whatever im a tranny and i hate myself and i will kms because i didnt start hrt at like 12 or had puberty blockers FUCK MY LIFE

>>8840333
This is exactly like Muslims disavowing terrorism. It follows from the principles of their own beliefs. SJWs just take tranny beliefs more seriously. If you really think a tranny is a woman you have to demand this shit.

>>8840266
But that's not a problem, because *language doesn't work like that*. You can't deliberately kill off words or meanings. Language will evolve organically and not give a shit about attempts to artificially constrain it.

>>8840374

You absolutely can. Look at what's happened with race in America. You used to be able to say "I don't want to go to that part of town, it's full of blacks". Now you have to skirt around it, like "Oh, that's a rough area".

Something like that could happen with sex. We just won't have a way to talk about women. That would be a disaster!

>>8840354
> Trannies: Call people AMAB or AFAB
> Also trannies: Stop calling people AMAB or AFAB

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/baby-gender-why-not-boys-girls-trans-assign-birth-non-binary-reveal-party-gendered-intelligence-a7933871.html

Trannies simply do not want us to be able to talk about sex.

>>8840266
>le big bag tranny conspiracy suppressing the TRUF because it clashes with their sjw brainwashed insanity plot to destroy western society
Just fuck off back to /pol/ or at least lurk a little bit to understand the board instead of just acting like a newfag.
This shit isn't original or smart, we've been getting slight variations of this crap for literally the entire history of the board.

The only people who buy your concern trolling or "le just asking questions and defending truth and logic" setup are other newfags and trolls like you.

>>8840323
Oh boy they get paraded around like trained monkeys to earn tolerance points, trump did it too.
Of course they still don't have full insurance coverage and can be fired or kicked out of housing just for being a tranny in many places, but can't let some silly facts get in the way of a nice big conspiracy to justify your persecution complex and obsession with some tiny minority of people with a medical issue.

>>8840326
You have that backwords, the actual scientists use a more complex measure of genetic markers and phenotypes when describing sex and gender, It's idiots like you that substitute your personal feels and elementary school level logic.

>>8840202
Female means biologically female. Woman also means biologically female. Surgery and pills won't change you any more than wishful thinking will. You can have the first two if they help ease the torment of your delusions, but not the last one and no policing language.

>>8840393
People judging you isn't censorship. You can still say that, you only skirt around it to avoid people thinking less of you for it.

>>8840323
Holy honbod, Jimmy!

It seriously took me awhile to figure out which one was the tranny.

>>8840202
i agree that it's dehumanizing to call women "females" in most contexts... it just reminds me of the ferengi from deep space nine

and purposefully going up to a trans women and saying "you're a biologica

i feel like we should just call people who are trans just trans (woman/man)

>>8840765
Why include the "trans" part at all unless it's contextually relevant?

>>8840646
>You have that backwords, the actual scientists use a more complex measure of genetic markers and phenotypes when describing sex and gender, It's idiots like you that substitute your personal feels and elementary school level logic.
The best measurement of sex is the genitals you were born with. Secondary sexual features and hormone levels are great too, but we use the word sex because of reproduction.
Male is the one who gives semen, female is the one who gives birth.
I'll gladly use the your preferred pronoun, but don't say that you aren't biologically male/female when you are.

>>8840659
But surgery and pills are...biological?
You realize "biological" isn't a synonym for "immutable" right?

>>8841071
>Male is the one who gives semen, female is the one who gives birth.
And trannies after HRT can't really do either so...?

>>8841148

> if I break my refrigerator, I can call it an oven

>>8841143
Well surgery doesn't biologically change your sex. It just reshapes things to resemble the other sex.

Hormones though, yes, change your hormone levels, androgenic hair, fat distributions, breasts, etc biologically to the other sex.

>>8841158
Surgery combined with hormones does change your genitalia though. It's not just "penile skin reshaped to look like a vagina", the genital tissue becomes virtually identical to normal vaginal tissue due to the influence of hormones. That's also why testosterone blockers eventually make you infertile.

>>8841186
>the genital tissue becomes virtually identical to normal vaginal tissue due to the influence of hormones
[TRANNIES ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS]

>>8841186
>the genital tissue becomes virtually identical to normal vaginal tissue
AFAIK that isn't true but if it is, that's one more thing in the hormones, etc pile and not a biological change from surgery.

>>8841190
>[TRANNIES ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS]
good argument youve totally convinced me
how could i be so delusional

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>>8840202
>murdering people for misgendering you

doesn't sound healthy to me, pham

>>8841199
>AFAIK that isn't true but if it is, that's one more thing in the hormones, etc pile and not a biological change from surgery.
That's true, but the surgery is necessary to reshape your genitals for it to work

>>8841199
I'll agree that it's not virtually identical, but it's not totally dissimilar either. From what I've read penile and scrotal skin adapt to the environment and dekeratinize to some extent. Skin grafts from other places seem to not adapt as well and remain more the same as they were. None of the skin grafts retain glycogen and that makes it hard to maintain lactobacilli in the neovagina.

>>8841211
Ok in that case the surgery is just facilitating the hormones, the same way being pierced with a syringe for a hormone injection or taking a glass of water with the pills facilitate the hormones.

But this is just semantics. Yes then, if you're right surgery helps the biological sex change, but doesn't do it itself unlike hormones.

>>8841221
>From what I've read penile and scrotal skin adapt to the environment and dekeratinize to some extent.
That's not related to biological sex though. The surface of a cis man's penis keratinizes or not depending on if he's been circumcised. It's just a reaction to exposure, so yes a female configuration will lead to the corresponding reaction female's experience, regardless of biological sex.

>>8840202
>Call me "biologically male" and i will murder you.
SJW trannies be nutso

>>8841349
That kind of aggressive language is so unhelpful.

>>8841186
Not only is that hilariously wrong, but you're also wrong for focusing on the superfiscial vagina, how can you claim to have female genetalia while completely lacking a uterus.

>>8841427
>aggressive language

are you talking about the murder threat or the "nutso"?

>>8841574
The murder threat. TERFs like to key in on that kind of language.

>>8840202
I fucking hate sjw's. Look, as an mtfg i wish so fucking badly that i had been born a female but i wasn't, i have male sex organs and male sex chromosomes. I also lack all female sex organs. Sure, my gender might be female because i have a mental ilness called gender dysphoria that makes my brain think its the wrong gender, but that doesn't make me an actual female. The whole reason we take hormones in the first place is because we are have to change our bodies from what they naturally were to what we feel more comfortable with.

Any trans person who is unable to recognize and accept this should immediately kill them self as they are the cancer plaguing our community.

>>8841503
>Not only is that hilariously wrong
(citation needed)
> how can you claim to have female genetalia while completely lacking a uterus
You realize the vagina counts as a separate part of your genitalia?

>>8841847
> i have a mental ilness called gender dysphoria that makes my brain think its the wrong gender,
These claims don't do you any favors either. At least be honest about what's really going on.

>>8841847
>i just happen to use pure /pol/ lingo
>means nothing, I'm a tranny too!
>as an mtfg
>muh chromosomes
>muh 'female sex organs'
>muh mental illness
>muh 'acshuel' female
>muh natural

>>8841893
>>8841900
sjw's detected. Gender dysphoria is a mental ilness whether you want to admit it or not. We are born in male bodies that make us so uncomfortable that we literally have to take the opposite sex's hormones just to not feel suicidal. I don't go on /pol/ and strawmanning my posts just proves my point that you sjw's really do need to stop living.

>>8841909
> We are born in male bodies that make us so uncomfortable that we literally have to take the opposite sex's hormones just to not feel suicidal
No you don't. Nobody's in the wrong body, that's baby's first tranny excuse. You need an excuse to be feminine, you're sexually drawn to it, or you're just being OCD.

>>8841909
>muh everyone is an sjw
Wanna guess where that particular bunker mentality originates from?

Dysphoria itself is a condition, yes. The science is still quite out on whether it's 'mental' or not (and all leading science indicates it's not; as that is concensus, I'm inclined to listen to them).

The reasoning (lol) you're using right now would suggest you likewise think Tourette's Syndrome is a 'mental illness'. It's also in the DSM, ya know.

>>8841847
>>8841909
>trying this hard to fit in with /pol/
I mean they have some pretty good points sometimes but you're just as bad as the SJWs at this point, just on the other end of the spectrum. It's okay to have your own opinions too

>>8841925
>Nobody's in the wrong body,
Ok then why are you taking hormones? If there is nothing wrong with your body then there is no reason to transition.

>>8841926
>and all leading science indicates it's not
This is false categorically. The only reason they consider it not a mental ilness is because generally the depression and suicidal thoughts go away with treatment, but that is just rediculous and if you look at how much pressure is constantly put on them to not call it a mental ilness by people like you its quite clear why they made their decision.

IF you knew anything about the current state of scientific research you would know that publishing anything politically incorrect gets your funding cut, your job goes away, and you are labelled a nazi for the rest of your life.

>>8841928
>muh /pol/ boogieman
The only times i have ever been on /pol/ have been to educate them on being trans and funnily enough sometimes they actually thank me for explaining it to them in non sjw terms.

>>8841948
>Ok then why are you taking hormones?
Hormones make you cute and feminine. It's not about becoming what you are inside, it's about becoming a fuckable cute girl. Or for some other men who hate the pressures of being men, its a way to take that pressure off.

It's time to stop lying. There's nothing wrong with your body, what's wrong is that you want to be something you aren't.

>>8841959
>Hormones make you cute and feminine. It's not about becoming what you are inside, it's about becoming a fuckable cute gir
This post screams agp. Unlike you, i don't take hormones for anything sexual related and if you do then you are not trans, you are simply a fetishist who probably will never even look anything other than a crossdressing man.

>>8841959
>it's about becoming a fuckable cute girl.
Speak for yourself anon. Not everyone is AGP like you and if think we are then you are more delusional than most.

>>8841974
>you are not trans, you are simply a fetishist
Implying there's any difference.
Unlike you I own what I'm doing. And being honest with myself feels fantastic.

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>>8841982
>Implying there's any difference.
There is and the only one lying to themself here is you. I transitioned due to severe depression and suicidal thoughts stemming from my male body. If you did it for sexual reasons you are not transgender and you shouldn't pretend to be. Its actually the height of autism to simply assume that everyone is doing it for the same reasons as you when you are simply part of a small group. You are pic related, a sissy crossdressing fetishist, you are not transgender.

>>8841948
>if you look at how much pressure is constantly put on them to not call it a mental ilness by people like you its quite clear why they made their decision.
You realize it's sjw's in general, and not just trannies, who do that? Not to mention most of the ones doing that are only pretending to be trans for attention and minority points.
>>8841959
>pressures of being men
>wahh being my gender is so hard why does the opposite gender have it so much easier
Did you get lost on your way to r9k/tumblr?

>>8841948
>This is false categorically.
Except where it's not, which is everywhere.
>the only reason they don't consider it...
Which means BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION it is NOT considered a mental illness, thanks for playing.
>muh 'powerful organization so powerful that we can't countermand it's word is ~forced~ to do something by a miniscule percentage of the population with LITERALLY no political power
Stupid conspiracy, /pol/tard
>IF you knew anything about the current state of scientific research you would know that publishing anything politically incorrect gets your funding cut, your job goes away
There are organizations that your...ilk...prefer, and they offer both jobs and funding. Let's not play the 'its another jew conspiracy' game.

>>8841071
t. Someone who has no expertise or knowledge or credibility in the field they are talking about

>>8842006
>BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION it is NOT considered a mental illness
>failing this hard at reading comprehension
That is like saying that diabetes is not a real ilness because it can be managed with insulin. Its complete and utter nonsense.
>Except where it's not, which is everywhere.
You don't leave your house often do you.
> /pol/tard
>muh /pol/ boogieman
The only boards i browse are legbutts /v/ and /u/. Screaming about muh /pol/ all day wont change the fact that you are wrong on all accounts and are mentally ill.
>There are organizations that your...ilk...prefer, and they offer both jobs and funding
>admitting to having no idea how scientitic research is funded and carried out in 2017
Yawn you still live with your parents don't you. Come back when you go to university for a masters and have to actually do research.

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>>8841994
> If you did it for sexual reasons you are not transgender

> not realizing crossdressers in various stages of transition have always been the real and original transgenders

>>8842026
>transgendered
>getting your opinion from a magazine that calls us transgendered
Opinion: discarded. Perhaps lurk a little more and spend less time on your sissy tumblr blogs?

>>8842031
Shaking my head. Language shifted since 1995. Transgender is a word for crossdressers first and foremost. If you aren't enjoying it, you aren't trutrans.

>>8841978
>Not everyone is AGP like you
Yeah and they've got a ton of different boards they post on.

>>8842042
>literally admitting to being a 40+ year old hon crossdresser
Stop embarrassing yourself anytime now

>>8842025
>"The reason IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A MENTAL ILLNESS..." >>8841948
>failing this hard at reading comprehension
It's not a failure to use your own words, retard. Jesus you're bad at this.
>Screaming about muh /pol/ all day wont change the fact that you are wrong on all accounts and are mentally ill.
Still thinks he's tricking people. kek.
>Yawn you still live with your parents don't you
No, I'm the 42 year old that posts here daily. It's hard to miss my typing style, I'm the antiquated one with odd lingo and an occasionally acerbic attitude to people who should be flensed.

>>8842052
And that's bad because?

>>8842070
>It's not a failure to use your own words, retard. Jesus you're bad at this
The insinuation was "its not considered a mental ilness by THEM" Aka the people you were talking about. I am so terribly sorry you were held back for so many grades that your reading comprehension is that of a 4th grader and need to be told everyone literally.
>Still thinks he's tricking people. kek.
Im gonna make a bet with you that i once made with another person. I will post my estrace and spironolactone bottles timestamped right now if you agree to never post on this board again you transtrender cancer.
>I'm the 42 year old that posts here daily
I KNEW IT. Its a 40 year old crossdressing sissy hon who probably masturbates to those "hypno" videos and thinks they are transgender now. I love this

More moral panic bullshit from idiots who poorly pretend to care about science while in reality they just hate trans people. Calling trans women female isn't going to make society fall apart.

>>8842097
>Calling trans women female isn't going to make society fall apart.
It literally is tho

>>8842070
>posting on 4chan in your 40's
Leave now and never come back hon

>>8842093
I KNEW IT. Its a 40 year old crossdressing sissy hon
No, that's the person who posted before me. I'm a fullblown tranny, the one who couldn't transition until recently because of liver issues for virtually my entire life.
>muh tortured explanation of....
Yes, well, I'll let you continue to believe I'm held back. I like to be underestimated. =^^= (inbefore ahmagawd no one uses emotes!)

As for your bet, no, image manipulation is too easy, and even if you were on them, that doesn't make you uninfected from your native board. If, somehow, in some way, you truly got ALL that internalization from /vpol/, well, congrats...now you know you have another board to call home.

And I'm done feeding you now, regardless of what you want to come up with next. You've grown trite.

>>8842107
>muh sekrit club
Lemme guess, been here all summer?

>>8842097
>even though everyone in the actual field studying this stuff disagrees with me, I'm just going to say it's basic biology without giving anything than vague middle school level overgeneralizations to justify my hatred towards people who don't threaten any aspect of my life and I have to waste time being unnecessarily hateful because nobody would pay attention to me otherwise

>>8842137
>even though the people studying trannies don't make the insane claim they're biologically female, i'm going to count on everyone being too stupid to point that out when I yell MUH SCIENCE

>>8842125
>I'm a fullblown tranny, the one who couldn't transition until recently
And you think you're better and more legitimate than her.

>>8840374
>Language will evolve organically and not give a shit about attempts to artificially constrain it.
Not how it works retard. Language evolves with human society, it's not some magical force with a will of its own. "Artificial" constraints can and have had significant influence on the evolution of all languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_reform
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_planning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_reform
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Russian_orthography

>>8842149
yeah but nobody in the field uses those terms, you're just using them to justify hate

>>8842149
What does "biologically female" mean? What does "biologically male" mean?
You realize there are numerous characteristics that contribute to someone 's sex, including your brain's gender identity.

>>8842193
Of the reproductive classes that produce large and small gametes respectively.

> your brain's gender identity.
no

god you trannies are up the wall

>>8842157
I'm going to assume you're likely not that same person and carry on.

No, I never said that. I simply pointed out I wasn't her and explained in short notes who I was. We don't have anywhere near the same history, of course, but I don't believe in 'legitimacy'.

>>8842198
>Of the reproductive classes that produce large and small gametes respectively.
Going by that definition, fully transitioned transpeople are sexless, as are numerous other intersex conditions, eunuchs, women on menopause, etc.
Yet none of those other groups of people are constantly accused of "pretending to be someone they're not"

>>8842149
there's literally no reason for you to call a trans woman "biologically male" other than you trying to be hateful towards them

>>8842205
>but I don't believe in 'legitimacy'.
That is because you aren't actually trans and believing in legitimacy would delegitimatize yourself. You are a transtrender, plain and simple.

>>8842217
I am a trans women and i call myself biologically male. Grow the fuck up and learn to accept reality. jfc

>>8842229
not trutrans, should have never transitioned

>>8842214
A broken refrigerator is still a refrigerator. Getting your nads cut off doesn't change your inborn reproductive class. And most trannies don't even do that.

>>8842229
Why do trannies have such a hard time with this reality? If they stopped pretending to be literally female that would stop so much resentment toward them.

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>>8842239
no, but it makes it easier to fool straight guys into fucking you, which is the ultimate goal of transitioning

>>8842248
because that's not how dysphoria works

>>8842238
I have been having gender dysphoria since i hit purberty and it got so bad that I developed a dissociative disorder to deal with it. Calling me not trutrans does not change reality and is simply not an argument. Plus i can almost guarantee i pass better than you hon.

>>8842239
>A broken refrigerator is still a refrigerator.
Actually if you use the strict dictionary definition of the word (which you seem intent on doing) it's not.

>>8842239
>muh biological reproductive class!
Holy crackers if that phrase gets any longer it's going to be competing with antidisestablishmentarianism.

>>8842254
Dysphoria is LITERALLY your brain being uncomfortable in your biological body. Therefore, that IS how dysphoria works. Stop deluding yourself.

>>8842255
you literally aren't a trans woman if you see yourself as male. filthy agp.

>>8842254
> muh made up condition
Those other cultures that trannies like to cite for their legitimacy so much have no problem accepting they are a third gender.

>>8842263
My sex is male and my gender is female. I see myself as a trans woman. Good job with basic reading comprehension, again.

>>8842261
no that's agp

>>8842261
>Dysphoria is LITERALLY your brain being uncomfortable in your biological body.
[citation needed]

>>8842257
autism

>>8842263
>implying you aren't agp yourself

>>8842272
https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/gender-dysphoria

>Gender dysphoria (formerly gender identity disorder) is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex that results in significant distress or impairment.

http://dsm.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596.dsm14

>>8842270
No agp is getting sexually aroused by the idea of being female. I have never gotten aroused by my own body.

>>8842248
>>8842229
Are you on hormones? Have you been on hormones for a while? If so congratulations, you're intersex and not "biologically male" since your body now has a combination of masculine and feminine features+female hormone levels.
But that's besides the point because your gender is still female.

>>8842291
That's not the same as your claim >>8842272 and not a scientific statement anyway like your assertion.

>>8842291
if you are trutrans, you've always been female, just "assigned male". you were never actually male. Thinking differently is a sign of agp.

>>8842286
No one who says "inborn reproductive class" unironically has any room to accuse others of autism

>>8842298
>hormones change your chromosomes
Do you have extra chromosomes?

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>>8842270
No, AGP is fapping to having giant tits

>>8842291
AGP is your sexuality wanting to be the girl instead of have her.

>>8842313
>hormones change your chromosomes
Where did anyone claim that?

>>8842298
>Are you on hormones? Have you been on hormones for a while?
3 years now
>ou're intersex and not "biologically male"
The only thing about me that is female biologically are my hormones which is entirely synthetic. To say we are "intersex" because we fuck with our hormones is like saying a person with diabetes is cured if they stay on their insulin all the time.

ITS NONSENSE. We do not naturally produce female hormones.

>>8842301
except that is is the same and i have to wonder if i am being trolled or just talking to someone extremely unintelligent at this point.

>>8842305
>just "assigned male".
go back to tumblr and stay there.

>>8842322
No its being sexually aroused at the idea of being a girl.

>>8842330
>The only thing about me that is female biologically are my hormones which is entirely synthetic
So all the changes your hormones have caused in your body over the past years don't count? You realize many of them (eg tit growth) won't reverse themselves if you get off HRT.

>>8842330
why would someone from tumblr use all these blanchardisms to try to invalidate you?

>>8842346
>So all the changes your hormones have caused in your body over the past years don't count?
Female secondary characteristics don't make me a girl. Otherwise pre pubescent girls would be a differnt sex. Jesus christ you are dumb.

Just because I look act and sound like a girl does not mean i am one.

>>8842330
>>8842346
Forgot to mention, but gender is as much a component of your sex than anything else, so it's not just hormone levels that cause you to be intersex.

>>8842354
not trutrans. no trutrans would try to bend so hard to invalidate their desired gender. please consider detransitioning before you become another suicide statistic that only makes the trans community look worse

>>8842354
>Female secondary characteristics don't make me a girl.
Then what does? You keep avoiding that question.

>>8842369
Lol my life is 100x better since transitioning. Don't be a salty bitter hon just because i pass and actually have breasts when you will always look like a man in a dress.

>>8842353
To try and fit in...

>>8842375
Female sex organs and chromosomes. I already answered this.

>>8842381
we haven't seen each other, stop assuming. I'm just pointing out that people who have these kinds of point of views of themselves are not actually trans and are the kind of people most likely to kill themselves a few years after srs.

>>8842390
>stop assuming
It is pretty easy to tell hon.
>most likely to kill themselves a few years after srs.
1. This is false. The trannies most likely to kill themselves are the ones who do not pass as their dysphoria will never actually go away and they will always be stared at and misgenered.
2. Having genital dysphoria is not a prerequisite for being trans and getting your penis turned into a fake vagina will not make you any more of a woman. I do not plan on getting srs until the surgery is actually decent.

>>8842405
only agps don't see themselves as women btw. why did you transition if you can't be a woman?

>>8842389
>Female sex organs
You mean like a vagina? Tits? Fully transitioned transwomen have both of those. You realize the converse would also be true, ie someone is only male if they have a penis, testes, etc, which post-SRS women do not have.

>chromosomes
Do you actually know how chromosomes work? Please explain their role in sex differentiation in detail.

>>8840202
As a MtF, and like most trans-sexuals, I am well aware that I am genetically male. Put simply though; I just really don't want that to be the case. So I have assumed the social role of female, and that is how people view me because I look like one! Which is nice.

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>>8842414
>you can't be a woman?
So that my gender dysphoria didnt kill me and i could be happy? If you don't have dysphoria you aren't trans, idk who you are trying to fool here.

>>8842416
>You mean like a vagina? Tits?
Wait you really think those are female sex organs? Jesus christ you didn't get basic sex ed did you.

I was taking about the ovaries, the uterus, and the falopian tubes. Getting srs does not give you a real vagina, stop being so delusional.
>Do you actually know how chromosomes work
It's not worth my time to explain to someone who thought that breasts were part of the female reproductive cycle and didn't even know what ovaries are.

>>8842423
filthy agp only concerned with the looks end of things

>>8842414
>he thinks having an ersatz bagina made from ballsack and colon tissue turns you into a full-fledged woman
L M A O
That's some genuine Reddit hon thinking right there.

>>8842428
you can have body dysphoria, but if you don't see yourself as a woman, you aren't trans

>>8842428
you can have body dysphoria and not be trans, if you don't see yourself as a woman, you aren't trans

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>>8842446
Keep saying that hon it wont make you pass any better. People who cling to the trutrans mantra are always butt ugly manly hons.

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>>8842434
This. It's mostly AGPs who spend $6,000,000 just to have their perfect little vuvu they can play with.

>>8842459
please show a pic then if you are so much better than them. I'm not even an mtf btw, ftm : )

>>8842467
>>8842434
>t. neverpass hons

>>8842469
I would rather you think i am a hon too than get doxxed again sorry. Never letting that happen again.

>>8842473
lol okay then, hon

>>8842428
>Wait you really think those are female sex organs?
Well let's see then.
http://www.luckymojo.com/faqs/altsex/vulva.html
>The vagina extends from the vaginal opening to the cervix, the opening to the uterus. The vagina serves as the receptacle for the penis during sexual intercourse, and as the birth canal through which the baby passes during labor. The average vaginal canal is three inches long, possibly four in women who have given birth.
Tits:
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-a-womans-breast-considered-a-sexual-organ-while-the-equivalent-for-men-is-not
>They're considered secondary or accessory sex organs. They are not directly related to fertilization, so they're not primary. They are obviously linked to sexual behavior in most cases and important to reproduction as a whole as a source of milk, but not fertilization.

No one ever said that SRS gives you ovaries or fallopian tubes, but you can't just pick and choose which sex organs you consider "legitimate". On the flip side, you have NO male sexual organs in your body post-SRS unless you count the vas deferens, which is only relevant insofar as being a sperm channel between the balls and the penis.
>Getting srs does not give you a real vagina,
I see you haven't read the rest of the thread.
>It's not worth my time to explain to someone who thought that breasts were part of the female reproductive cycle and didn't even know what ovaries are.
So in other words you have no idea what sex chromosomes actually do. Good to know.

>>8842473
>t. salty Reddit hon who thinks he's a woman since SRS

>>8842497
>https://www.quora.com/W
>using quora.com
>literally says it is a secondary sexual characteristic and not an organ
You just defeated yourself sorry.

>>8842498
What?I think you meant to reply to the person i was talking to?

>>8840202
Look, at the end of the day I cant change whats between my legs. Not until the technology goes further at least. Whenever someone says biological male its biologically true. I want to present as female and be treated as such, infact ideally they wouldnt have any idea whatsoever.

>>8842506
>You just defeated yourself sorry.
At least I have one more source than you. Mind showing me one that states breasts are NOT sexual organs, other than "your ass"?

>>8842506
You replied to me (>>8842467) though.

>>8842520
http://www.sexandu.ca/your-body/the-human-body/#tc2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_reproductive_system

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1898919-overview
http://www.medicinenet.com/female_reproductive_system/article.htm
>>8842524
I think i replied to the wrong person sorry im not feeling well rn very dizzy and light headed

>>8842535
>calls me out for linking to quora
>proceeds to use wikipedia
lol

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>>8842898
>i have no idea how wikipedia works: the post
>i am literally too retarded to look at the sources at the bottom of the page: the post
>im going to ignore the 3 other links and only focus on wikipedia because i have been caught not understanding basic grade 4 human biology

American really are embarrassing.

>>8843195
>thinking wikipedia isn't full of shit with no references, highly selective references, references that don't contain what the article claims, and extremely biased interpretations of references

t. not who you were arguing with or an American.

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>>8843209
>no references,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_reproductive_system#References
?
Posting from your phone after being btfo is pretty sad hon.

>>8842423
How are you a "trans-sexual" if you believe you are the sex you were assigned at birth?

>>8843241
The term "assigned at birth" is meaningless unless you are intersex hon. All this trutrans bullshit wont help you pass better

>>8843195
>im going to ignore the 3 other links and only focus on wikipedia because i have been caught not understanding basic grade 4 human biology
You mean how you conveniently ignored every single one of my other arguments and just focused on one minor fact that barely affects the bigger picture?
Fine here's a legit source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201305/sexual-wiring-womens-breasts
Note how none of the things you linked actually deny the fact that female breasts are sexual organs.

>>8843250
Everyone is assigned a sex at birth, intersex or not. Also I'm cis so not only is calling me an unpassing hon not an argument, it's also not true.

>>8843275
>Everyone is assigned a sex at birth,
Yes but unless you are intersex then the sex you are assigned at birth is your correct sex. You are not trans if your gender and sex do not mismatch by definition.

>>8843274
>sexual-wiring
>still thinking sex organs are about sexual stimulation and not their reproductive system
Hon really this is getting beyond sad. A woman does not need her breasts to reproduce.

>>8843297
>still thinking sex organs are about sexual stimulation and not their reproductive system
Yes that's what people who actually study this shit think too. But by all means feel free to keep moving goalposts around if you think it makes you any less wrong.

>>8843297
>unless you are intersex then the sex you are assigned at birth is your correct sex
>unless you are intersex
What did xe mean by this?

>>8843224
>missing the point this hard
He meant that wikipedia is full of shit with missing references, not that there aren't any references whatsoever. What do you think the [citation needed] tag is for.

>highly selective references
>references that don't contain what the article claims
>extremely biased interpretations of references
These are also all true to varying degree depending on the article but especially for controversial topics so stop using wikipedia to make your points you fucking retard. If your argument is in the references then cite the actual references and explain why they are relevant. Wikipedia link dumping is the dumbest shit ever.

>>8843307
>moving goalposts
So you still think that a woman needs her breasts to reproduce? Because im pretty sure there have been women who underwent double mastectomies and still gotten pregnant. The more you dig yourself into this hole the sadder it is getting.

>A sex organ (also called a reproductive organ, primary sex organ, or primary sexual characteristic) is any anatomical part of the body in a complex organism that is involved in sexual reproduction and together constitute the reproductive system.
>involved in sexual reproduction
>involved in sexual reproduction

>>8843308
Because if you are intersex they could just assume you are female when you really have XXY chromosomes.

>>8843323
>this much damage control after literally being shown the references
Why is lgbt so full of unintelligent illiterate americans?

>>8843323
>missing the point this hard
Could only be deliberate.

>>8843297
Sex and gender and sex are synonymous. It's impossible for your sex and gender to not match.

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>>8843345
>samefagging yourself

>>8843346
In the English language they are not actually, sex refers to biology where as gender refers to social and cultural characteristics. pic related

>>8843342
>shilling for wikipedia this hard
Fuck off Jimmy. Your site is cancer and will never be acceptable to use as a source.

>>8843363
>get btfo
>keep focusing on wikipedia as an attempt at damage control
Save it hon, you lost.

>>8843356
>gender
>the state of being male or female
lmao way to destroy your own argument idiot

>>8843366
>implying
the only one who is BTFO is you, for thinking wikipedia is an actual source

>>8843368
>being so bad at argueing you literally have to selectively edit parts of the sentence to keep out the parts that prove you wrong
>the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

>>8843373
The more you focus on wikipedia and ignore all the other sources, the more you admit you have no actual argument hon.

>>8843342
Intersex people can be female...

>>8843342
>https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201305/sexual-wiring-womens-breasts
>The permanently enlarged human breast is a peculiarity of our species (2). It may have some signal value in communicating fertility and plays a role in physical attractiveness.

Pretty sure all of those things have a direct effect on sexual reproduction, but knowing you you'll cling to any excuse you can find to claim that they actually don't. Despite the fact that by your very own definition, a fully transitioned transsexual is 0% biologically male.

Either way, you've still conveniently ignored every single argument in this thread, conveniently nitpicking this one small detail as if it somehow proves us all wrong, so don't even bother responding unless you feel like addressing them. This is just bait at this point, and I won't waste any more of my energy responding unless you have something meaningful and non-autistic to say. Enjoy thinking you're actually "biologically male" or whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>8843368
State - "the particular condition that someone or something is in at a specific time"
Sounds mutable to me

>>8843386
biologically xxy is different than xx.
>>8843389
>communicating fertility
HOLY SHIT YOU ARE BEYOND RETARDED. Did you even read the article. All it says about breasts is that they can "communicate fertility" to the opposite sex. That doesnt mean they are part of the sexual reproductive cycle you absolute moron.

You know what, I give up. You are literally too mentally challenged to argue with and will just keep argueing even when proven wrong over and over. Im going to go back to new vegas.

Stay ugly hon

>>8843379
>being so bad at argueing you literally have to selectively edit parts of the sentence to keep out the parts that prove you wrong
But that's what you're doing, by focusing only on the "cultural differences" part and ignoring the actual definition. Reminder that this thread is about whether it's correct to call trans women female or not. If you accept the definition that you posted then you have to accept that trans women are females. The part in the parentheses doesn't invalidate that, it just clarifies in which contexts the word is used. Gender and sex are still synonymous, they just have different connotations and are used in different contexts. No two synonyms are ever exactly the same.

>>8843410
>No two synonyms are ever exactly the same.
>failing this badly at the english language.

>>8843410
Save your energy m8, I gave her a whole list of reasons why she's completely wrong >>8842416 >>8842497 and she spent the last 20-30 posts autistically screeching about one small detail (the role of breasts as secondary sex organs) which she was wrong about anyway. Don't let the autism get to you

>>8843410
Not that anon, but she's right, gender and sex are not the same thing, trans-women can be women, but they are NOT female, they are biologically male. However, this doesnt matter in most situations if you pass because because people would think you are female anyway. Changing your secondary sex characteristics through hormones doesnt change your sex, it does change the way your genes are expressed and the way society responds to you, thats about it. I have no problem referring transwomen as female, even if it is not truly the case.

>now can we all just hug already?

>>8843450
>biologically intersex
FTFY

>>8843471
NO

>>8843423
patronizing chasers make me wet tbhon

>>8843471
Being intersex doesn't make you female. Even if you qualify for being intersex, that doesn't change my point. This arguement isn't about being "close enough" to ones desired sex.

>>8843450
Why do you consider sex as if it was this immutable thing even though it's not? Gene-wise sex is not static but it's maintained all through your entire life-- yes, the fact that one is a male has to be constantly upheld. Hormones on the other hand force your cells to act one way or another so if we deprave the body of testosterone and pump it full of estrogen, prolonged exposure will force it to act like the cells in females no matter what content their nuclei contain (Y chromosome).

We start out as male then we turn into mixed sex chimeras, just like >>8843471 said. Denying this is denying facts.

>>8843553
>just like >>8843471 said
Samefagging yourself is pretty sad.

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hurrr de biologicl reality!1

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>>8843581
BTFO again. Picrel.

>>8843606
>look i posted from my phone it means im not samefagging
Phoneposters ruined 4chan.

>>8843581
It's sad you have nothing left to offer but "you are samefagging." It's pretty telling that you would like to quickly dismiss anything I said under the pretense of falsely accusing me of samefagging even though the real reason is that you don't intent to listen to reason and instead want to keep confining yourself to your comforting false worldview.

>>8843613
>phoneposting
....holy crackers, I forgot that was a thing. Dammit, and here I'd just gotten used to using Paint on screenshots. Always behind, tech is a real pain once you're out of college age.

>>8843648
What? I'm not even the same person you have been arguing with anon. Don't you know how to look at the unique ID poster count? I don't care about your petty autistic argument, I'm pointing out how obvious your samefaggotry is.

>>8843553
Sex IS immutable, gene expression is not, that is the point. As i said here:>>8843503, being a male on female hormones does NOT make you intersex or female for that matter. Look, I'm not trying to be mean or insult your intelligence, but this is a fact. We have to accept the true as it is, instead of warping it to suit our goal, no matter how noble our goals.

>>8843648
This is me replying to you anon
>>8843662

>>8843658
You...never considered that I (picrel and FTFY girl) had posted earlier in the thread? And you're calling someone ELSE autistic?

Kek.

>>8843662
Is your argument female refers to genotype and woman refers to phenotype?

>>8843700
Yes, that's all I'm trying to say.

>>8843682
Have you ever considered that your damage control after the fact is just making you look more and more guilty? I mean either you have been samefagging the whole time or you are some butt buddies who decided to gang up on some random anon because they disagreed with you.

>>8843662
>gene expression is not
Sure. If it was then estrogen would do absolutely nothing to male body.
>Sex IS immutable
Wrong. The reason why one sex stays the sex it "is" (in other words appears unchanged) is due to the tug-of-war process with genes found in both autosomes and sex chromosomes participating in it.

>In the study, published in the new issue of the journal Cell, researchers knocked out a female-promoting gene in adult female mice. The FoxL2 gene works by suppressing a male gene. When FoxL2 is switched off, the male gene, called Sox9, takes over, sending signals that turn ovarian cells into cells normally found only in the testes.
Tell me something. Does this sound "immutable" to you? If so, the root of disagreement here is semantics-based than fact-based then.

>>8843757
A very thought-provoking study, however, it seems to fall more in line with gene expression being mutable, which i agree with, not sex actually changing. If you sequenced the dna(genotype) of the mouse you would still find that it is female. Is this even relevent to humans, am I missing something.

>>8843553
Not only that, but sex chromosomes are completely irrelevant to your sexual development once your out of the womb. XY and XX are not inherently "male" or "female", all they do is code for a hormonal release in the womb that develops your primary sexual organs.
A post-SRS/orchi transsexual wouldn't start turning back to male even if they quit HRT altogether.

>>8843876
Then I ask you, what is a male and what is a female?

>>8840202

Her opinion is worthless.

>>8843876
>A post-SR
A fake vagina does not make you female. You still do not produce estrogen naturally either and if you stopped taking it you would not only get extremely depressed but you would most likely get osteoporosis.

>>8843891
>what is a male
Someone who has male sexual characteristics
>what is a female
Someone who has female sexual characteristics

The main idea here is that there are numerous sex characteristics, not just one thing that makes you male or female.

>>8843902
>You still do not produce estrogen naturally
Nor do you produce testosterone, what's your point?

>>8843908
So then according to you pre pubescent children are neither male or female. You might want to rethink your position.

>>8840202
Yeah, she's correct.

>>8843902
I mean
everyone produces both estrogen and testosterone

>>8843914
The point is you are still not naturally female, nor are you biologically female. You are simply artifically manipulating your secondary sexual characteristics (with varying degree of success) to match your preferred gender. Is an MtF who doesn't manage to grow breasts not a female according to you, he who holds so much stock in the development of mammary glands. Most of them do not get past a B cup.

>>8843916
Do you live on another planet where boys don't have penises and girls don't have vaginas?

>>8843908
as a intersex person i agree with this definition personally, i've worked to have one set of sexual characteristics and minimize the others to be recognized as the sex i feel most comfortable. meanwhile the whole time doctors vs therapists vs experts arguing over what sex is but not getting anything done

t. naturally tits, beard and clitdick

>>8843908
Are you a male if you were born with a penis? Or are you a male if you were born with a vagina and get surgery and gain a prosthetic similar to a penis? Does reproductive capability matter to you, or just looking the part is what I'm asking?

>>8843930
Ok if that is the case then an mtf isnt really female and an ftm is not really male since neither of them can actually the actual genitals to match their preffered gender. MtF bottom surgery is a hack job mutilating the penis to "look" similar to the labia of a vagina, and FtM bottom surgery is just taking skin from somewhere like the thigh and hanging it from the labia to kind of sort of not really look like a fucked up penis.

If we are saying that you have to have a penis to be male and a vagina to be female then you have kind of defeated your own arguments.

>>8843927
>The point is you are still not naturally female
And people who get dental fillings don't "naturally" have teeth, but it doesn't stop them from chewing whatever food they want. What's your point.
If human biology was as immutable as you're trying to claim, medicine wouldn't exist altogether.

>>8843927
Nothing of what you're talking about matters, what matters is the present.

A person who committed suicide, and is dead, cannot be considered a living person who has done things within their power to change that state.
It's a dead person.

>>8843956
>MtF bottom surgery is a hack job mutilating the penis to "look" similar to the labia of a vagina
Except prolonged exposure to hormones actually causes your genital tissue turn into vaginal tissue. None of this is rocket science, this is the exact same process that molds your genitalia into a penis or vagina in the womb, just administered artificially.

>>8843966
If some asked you, "are those your real teeth", and they were not, are you not a liar?

>>8843966
>don't "naturally" have teeth
Correct. I have 2 fillings in my teeth and its not a natural tooth. Your argument would be to say that it is a natural tooth.

If you have to artificially create or change something after the fact then it is by definition not natural nor is it biological. Your hormones do not come from your own biology, they come from an external measure and you rely solely on it.

>>8843980
>your genital tissue turn into vaginal tissue.
I cant tell if you are trolling or just so delusinal you actually believe those fake non peer reviewed "studies" published by the same plastic surgeons who make millions a year performing the surgery. Could you be more gullible.?

>>8843976
You really like changing goalposts a lot, don't you. Every time you are defeated you simply move the goal post and try to take the conversation in another direction in hopes of simply exhausting any person you argue with because you cannot except that you are wrong on all levels.

>>8843992
>I cant tell if you are trolling or just so delusinal you actually believe those fake non peer reviewed "studies" published by the same plastic surgeons who make millions a year performing the surgery. Could you be more gullible.?
Well do you mind linking me a study that proves otherwise? Until so it's the word of a 4chan shitposter against qualified professionals.

>>8843992
>studies I don't like the results of aren't real

>>8844021
>qualified professionals.
Being a plastic surgeon does not make you a qualified professional.

>>8844021
Not the anon who's disagreeing with you, but could you post some of the studies you're referring to? I'd like to add them to my collection of pro-trans studies.

>>8844034
>studies published by people who literally make money off of people buying into their propaganda are not biased at all, especially when they are not peer reviewed.
Good goy. You are just like when chris chan thought he was growing a vagina because his piercing got infected and started opening a hole

>>8844043
http://www.gendercare.com/library/italiano_paper1.html

>>8844051
Thanks

>>8844051
>http://www.gendercare.com/library/italiano_paper1.html
Some surgeons disagree, stating that the tissue is not mucosa, but only resembles mucosa. They are only partially correct, since the normal female vaginal tissue is not truly mucosa either. It is called mucosa only because it lines a body passageway.
literally btfo by your own study

>>8844060
did you not read the thing you posted
>the tissue is not a mucosa
You: "HA, BTFO!"
>the normal female vaginal tissue is not truly mucosa either

>>8844064
I dont think you fully understand the study you posted anon. I think you should go back and read it several times because it definitely does not say what you think it does, at least not in the way you were implying.

>>8844079
I didn't post the study, anon. I'm >>8844043

>>8844087
Then you clearly did not understand the paragraph i posted from it.

>>8844092
Some surgeons disagree, stating that the tissue is not mucosa, but only resembles mucosa. They are only partially correct, since the normal female vaginal tissue is not truly mucosa either. It is called mucosa only because it lines a body passageway. It contains no mucous-secreting glands (Fawcett, et. al., 1995). That is why lubrication is a transudate phenomenon, the source being dilation of the capillaries that surround the barrel and the subsequent squeezing out of fluid through the vaginal walls, which in normal and artificially constructed vaginas have been shown to be a functioning two-way membrane. (Masters & Johnson, 1966). Although Masters & Johnson note that production of lubrication usually takes longer in the artificial vagina, they also showed that some artificial vaginas are capable of lubricating as well and as rapidly as any normally constituted vaginal barrel and that two of their patients had "lubricated, in fact, more effectively than many women with normally constituted vaginas" (Masters & Johnson, 1966).

>That is why lubrication is a transudate phenomenon, the source being dilation of the capillaries that surround the barrel and the subsequent squeezing out of fluid through the vaginal walls, which in normal and artificially constructed vaginas have been shown to be a functioning two-way membrane. (Masters & Johnson, 1966).

the point of the paragraph was actually to show they are the same

>>8844099
>the point of the paragraph was actually to show they are the same
Ok but to say that being on hormones for long enough will give you vaginal tissue, as the origonal anon stated, is not even remotely what they are talking about in the study. That is why i told him and you both to go back and read it

>>8844099
>they are the same
some (2) are the same
FTFY

>>8844110
Correct- it appears that HRT isn't even necessary.

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>>8840202
I disagree with her. I'm a male woman. There's no changing biological sex.

>>8846307
What are you going to do about the sex on your ID documents?

>>8846814

Can't speak for them, but I'm also MtF and agree that I'm still male, you can't change biological sex. I keep the "M" on my docs. Its embarrassing but so is self delusion.

>>8846866
OK, sir. Enjoy being a man the rest of your life. We women have an "F" on our IDs.

>>8840202
> denying objective facts

This is why people think trannies are unhinged.

>>8846866
>>8846307
Hons like you usually settle on that, talk about how you accept your male traits like your lantern jaw and chin and use it as an excuse to do nothing.

Basically you use that as an excuse to not assimilate, given that you go around presenting that you're a guy.

Luckly, those bathroom bills will keep you creepy guys out. The cops will recognize your manly frame a mile away and arrest you for trespassing and your IDs will be used in court as proof that you're a man pretending to be trans.

Enjoy man jail hon.

>>8846948
Says the autist who got mad when people laughed at his lack of a high school education or knowledge of statistical significance and then started spamming till his ban

archive.loveisover.me/lgbt/thread/8806595 was sad and pathetic.

Please, why should we accept your delusional ideas as right when all the real scientists say otherwise?

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>>8840202
>>8846948
The sad thing is the same single pathetic autist has been posting all of this stuff nonstop. So much that he got banned for spam and Pol laughed him out https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/125561523/#125561523

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>>8840202
>>8846948
And the sad thing is what triggered him was that he got laughed at because he didn't understand what statistical significance was or other basic high school stuff and got laughed at.

So he spammed and spammed till he got banned for being too autistic

>>8844046
>t. mentally ill trailer trash that thinks his fee feees trump peer reviewed studies and actual experts
oh wow!

>>8846307
>>8846814
Where do people get the idea that "biological" is synonymous with "unchangeable"? It's like you've never taken an actual biology class in your life.

>>8846973
> all real scientists

Tell me more about biased academia.

>>8847075
>this study is biased because it doesn't agree with what I think

>>8847075
Cry more about how the scientific instruments lie because you don't like them and they're oppressing you.

You're more insane than tumblr ever was.