Are there cis women who realize how much we envy them and aren't

>>8835433
My girlfriend/ex-gf is very understanding and helps me with girl things. It really feels like we're cis girl bffs.

>>8835433
i feel like growing up gnc should have been enough for you though? what exactly are you issues with dealing with women?

>>8835433
creeeeeeepy

i just don't understand. i've always thought that being male was _objectively_ better and i don't get why you'd give it up.

>>8835539
Same here. All my logic points towards -living as a male is just more rewarding and simpler - but, idk, it really is a "feeling" I guess. Even the smartest and most attractive women I know are still second class compared to an average guy.

And yet, something keeps pulling me back.

>Inb4 failed male theory
I've went out and dated some girls and lost my virginity just to see if the whole argument holds ground. The only thing fucking a girl did was make me realize how much I hate being dominate.

>>8835539
But, you get to be a girl.

>>8835563
>physically weak
>submissive
>glass ceiling
>never have your opinions respected
>have to wear uncomfortable clothing and makeup to be more attractive
>more painful and difficult anatomy

being a girl is not great. i guess it's an advantage if all you care about is attention and being in a relationship, but otherwise men have it better.

>>8835575
>be male
>have to take man jobs because muh muscles
>be giant, hairy, overbearing ogre that nobody likes, even if you wanted to be submissive or naturally react submissively, nobody wants to be around you because you're a weird ogre.
>men at top of food chain cuck you your entire life
>have to wear bland shit and button up shirts which choke you to work, and cut your hair like a military drone or you're a bum
>have disgusting thing between your legs that gets hard and uncomfortable all the time

Girls get to be moms, little spoons, the nurturing partner, and be magical if they tap into it. The only downside I see would be having to be around males that you don't like, desu.

>>8835441
>girlfriend/ex-gf
which is it?

>>8835433
Hey OP, I'm a cis girl and I kinda get what you're going through?
I suffer from a condition called PCOS, which means I have excess testosterone and socially awkward symptoms (Male-patterned weight gain, excess facial hair, stunted growth, risk of diabetes, etc.)
I always wanted to look like //other girls//. I know that this social dysphoria is nothing compared to what you've probably gone through, but I want you to know that yeah, I know the feel and I sympathise.
I'm not creeped out by other people wanting what I've got. You have my full support <3

>>8835539
It's a problem with my physical body and appearance. It is painful and bizarre to not look female and to not be able to be perceived as one it has very little to do with social consequences.

>>8835695
Cis women with high test problems are probably the nicest and most relatable people I've met, outside of other trans girls. thank you

Looks aside having testosterone infecting my mind was the real dark stuff. Having something that's a part of me forcing me to stare at women like meat, touch myself aggressively, act like a wounded animal and self destruct. It made a monster out of me.

With estrogen I can be sweet and thoughtful and my willpower is terrible but its so much less malevolent than before. I can actually be a nice person with estrogen. I'm mostly jealous that cis girls got to be like that from the start.

>>8835690
Technically ex because we're officially not dating and she has a new bf but nothing's really changed since when we were dating.

>>8835607
But girls get to have feminine bodies with breasts, wide hips, and no facial/body hair. If I could have a female body but people would still treat me like a guy, I'd be okay with that.

>>8836076

Precisely my experience as well, I hadn't been able to figure out a way to say it so succinctly before, thank you.


>>8835539

To elaborate, for me there is this disconnect when I look in the mirror and see this guy looking back at me. "That's not me, it just isn't," and then he mimics anything I do, and I want to cry. And maybe I do, and then that makes it worse because I shouldn't sound like that. I don't behave like most men, so I'm ostracized from male social circles, but I'm a guy so, of course, I don't fit into female social circles. My boss sees me as male, so he likes to vent to me about my female coworkers which turns into this misogynistic rant, and the whole time I'm attempting to ignore that, I'm cringing inside because I can't stop staring at his bald head because I know that will be mine one day.

>>8837482
When I look in the mirror I see a male but I know it's me. It doesn't even upset me really. But I still wish I was female.

>>8835433
>Are there cis women who realize how much we envy them
yes
>and aren't creeped out by it?
no

it's really fucking creepy

>>8839864
why? i just want to be normal and feel normal about my gender. and they get that

>>8839817

I'm glad that it doesn't bother you like it bothers me, Anon. Are you considering or on HRT, or undergoing some other form of transition?
>>8839864

It shouldn't be creepy, all sorts of cis women envy other cis women for what they have, >>8835695 as an example, so why is it creepy for a trans woman to envy what cis women have?

>>8837482
>My boss sees me as male, so he likes to vent to me about my female coworkers which turns into this misogynistic rant, and the whole time I'm attempting to ignore that,

Oh, god. I had a manager at an internship where I was on a team with all women do that. They were sitting right there when he did it too. So fucking disgusting. I can't wait until his type are exterminated.

>Yuk, yuk, women amirite?
>Yuk, yuk, it must suck having to listen to women yap all day, yuk yuk
>yuk, yuk, if you need to talk about man stuff like sportsball niggers in tights, or cars to make up for our small dick size, come to my office some time

>>8840849
It bothers me that I am male, but seeing the particular male I am doesn't. Maybe if I could forget I am it would be an unpleasant reminder, but I don't forget in the first place.

I do consider HRT but most likely I'll just repress.

>>8840918
women do suck
t mtf

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>>8844150
Only women who are prettier than you Anon. Like that stacy bitch who I walk past at uni all the time.

>>8840918

Yeah, it's up there with the worst aspects of my job, though, I guess I'm lucky that it happens away from female co-workers.


>>8840945

I rely on escapism and repression to get through my day to day due to uncertainty or fear about being able to pass when I transition, and I wish I wouldn't. I've been doing that for so long now, repressing and escaping, that if I had just started transition when I learned that those desires and feelings weren't normal and could be alleviated, I would probably look pretty good now.

So, I'm only hurting myself by repressing.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm turning 31 in a few days, and every day the knowledge that I am only making things worse hurts even more than it did the day before. I'm sure you've thought about it, and maybe you're in a position where you can repress and be mostly content being male (successful career, loving relationship, children if that's your thing), but from personal experience, every nice thing has this oppressive shadow looming over it which spoils any chance of contentment.

Apologies, I'm not trying to preach, just be sure that you can live with it because it snowballs fast.

>>8835433
I'm not creeped out by it at all, but sometimes it's hard to understand because I don't really enjoy being a woman and I don't think I ever have. If I could trade bodies with a transwoman, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

>>8846655
t. repressing ftm

>>8846655
Here's the funny thing anon, I don't think I'd "enjoy" being female either. It's that I NEED to be female. The enjoyment I get would mostly be the relief that I'm not in a retarded gender hell anymore.

>>8846655
That's a mindset I don't think I've ever heard- wanting to trade bodies with a trans woman.

>>8837482
t. mentally ill

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>>8835539
for myself and many other transwomen, it's not the social aspects. we're not doing a side by side comparison of which gender gets the most benefits. i know that now that i've been on hrt for 3 years i'm considerably physically weaker, i'm catcalled, i feel less safe when i'm alone in dangerous places, and I have much higher grooming standards. it's not exactly better than being seen as male

however
when I was 14 and looked in the mirror and realized how masculine I looked even then, it horrified me. it frightened me. most of my guy friends would compare themselves to tyler durden or ryan gosling. I was upset I didn't even begin to look like girl friends of mine. I felt out of place, I felt weird in my own skin. Why can't I have hips? Why can't I have soft skin? Why can't I feel pretty?

it's not a matter of wanting to be a woman socially. it's a matter of knowing that if you don't transition you'll always compare yourself to women despite having a body that is physically not designed to look like a woman's.

i'm a cis girl and my bf told me he would transition if it were easier than it currently is. for now he's getting more comfortable wearing my clothes. it's very cute.

>>8846759
>bf
uh huh, suuure.

>>8846788
right i lied, he's my husband now.

>>8846840
That's hot, your husband is very lucky!

>>8835433
Im creeped out by all the women who fawn over my hight and muscles

>>8837482
>not fitting into both because you are a fem guy and can relate to both genders

>can't stop staring at his bald head because I know that will be mine one day.
please dont do this to yourself,

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>>8846840
>another AGP that gets married then cracks, tries to an hero and becomes a hon in her 40s

>>8846759
How do you feel about that? Easier how?

>>8846897
no way, i'm lucky he puts up with me.

>>8846986
i knew he was like this before we got married, though. he's very feminine anyway, i didn't know he was a guy when we first met and both his parents are attractive so he's probably going to age pretty well on top of everything else.

>>8847215
what is there to put up with?

>>8847215
if "he" is feminine that only means significant brain feminization too
be ready for your inevitable future

>>8835607
I feel you anon. It literally felt suffocating. I didn't even realize how submissive I was until I had sex with a guy for the first time. And so to be stuck in this "ogre" body with this constant pressure from my parents to be this "straight dad" who works a day job and acts normal and assertive became paralyzing.
Guys are pressured to fit this mould where anything contrary to it is frowned upon.
It wasn't really a choice for me like: transition or die.
I'm just happy that I can be kind, and caring, and nurturing. And feel beautiful for once.
Being a guy who fits the mould.. working out, being aggressive with friends, having sex with girls, sports, and doing manly work or whatever is probably easier than being a girl. But, if you don't fit in like the other guys, it's awful.

>>8847395
>you are a man, or what, go do this!
>man up! you are not allowed to feel, you are not some girl!
>you are a man, you are responsible for everything!
>you cant diverge from the male norm, or you are a faggot!

god I always hated exploitative bullshit that and it comes from both men and women

oh and now add to this all the man-hating screeching from the lefties and discrimination at work and in hiring

I cant possibly transition so Im just better and envious

>>8847539
*bitter*
and all the other things need correcting, Im to tired and frustrated to type properly

>>8847395
How can you not know how submissive you are?

>>8847562
She probably meant the extent of it. Which makes sense if she'd never been with a guy before.

>>8848777
I haven't been with a guy but I know I'm extremely submissive.

>>8847562
because being submissive is an extremely negative trait for boys, basically a suicide and everyone represses it

>>8849281
: (