>HSTS are obvious. They will tend to be smaller, lighter,

>>8816492
All of those except for being 5'11'' (120 lbs tho)

>>8816495
How is that even fucking possible???

>>8816492
That image is laughable. Using asians as examples of HSTS and whites as examples of AGPs just to pretend you've got a point.

If you go off "smaller, lighter, much curvier, noticeably extremely feminine in their mannerisms, the way they look and sound" then the whole of China must just be one giant nation of gays. It's amazing they even have needed a one child policy when they all hate to use their dick so much.

>>8816492
tbhon that video is too long

why would I care what some creepy old man thinks about me

Sociocultural theories about psychology are for pedophiles

>>8816552
> creepy old man
You don't care what George Lucas has to say about us? tbhon

>>8816565
tbhon NOPE

>>8816565
I don't care about what George Lucas has to think as he drops his stool either.

>>8816544
>Using asians as examples of HSTS and whites as examples of AGPs just to pretend you've got a point.
but the types are racial

>>8816544
White HSTS still fit his same description.

>>8816492
wait who is this guy?

is he our new meme man?

>>8816588
>>8816592
B-but silly old men passionately rambling about stuff they don't understand are funny tbhon

>>8816594
What do you count as white, anon?

Have you seen any of the cis white females celebrities now days? They're thin as a stick and have strong features and masculine mannerisms.

>>8816606
tbqhon why don't you fondle my cone tits instead

>>8816543
Not having access to food + being naturally emaciated all my life.

>>8816492
He's upset that AGP can pass because he's prejudiced against them.

Pretty transparent.

New gender on 4chan - mtb - male to blanchard

What does HSTS stand for/mean?

>>8816711
homosexual transexual

>>8816711
Heterosexual transsexual :^)

>>8816668
which AGPs pass?

>>8816756
It literally wouldn't matter what picture I post.

You can post cis girls here and they get nopass consistently.

No one passes in the eyes of /tttt/, so why bother?

>>8816766
>can't post any examples
;^) agp bitterhon btfo

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>>8816774
oh no! I've been btfo!

tfw nonpassing hsts

>>8816793
>hsts
Doubt.jpg

>>8816809
i've never been aroused at the thought of being a chick, so yeah i'm not a filthy AGP (x

>>8816816
You're probably an AGP.

>>8816831
if you repeat a lie often enough it makes it true, eh fetishist

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>>8816831
i'm only into men and have never had autogynephilic thoughts, you don't know me you fetishist creep lol :)

>>8816793
>nonpassing
>hsts
pick one

>>8816900
there are passable AGP scum and nonpassing HSTS, you delusional hon

>>8816928
They want to create an artificial hierarchy where correlation is expressly causation.

>>8816928
t. delusional AGP transbian hon

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>>8816940
"everybody i disagree with is an AGP transbian"

>>8816946
It's the classic defense mechanism of someone not interested in logic but entirely interested in forcing their epic meme.

Resist.

>>8816492
Take a look at his channel.
Really telling.

>>8816492
What a dirty old man. He sites Nuttbrock's paper as another nail in the coffin that Blanchard's hypothesis is right and that's not what the paper shows.

>Consistent with Blanchard, we observed strong associations between three measurements of >sexual orientation and different measurements of transvestic fetishism. The lifetime >prevalence of transvestic fetishism was approximately three times higher among the non-homosexuals (69%) as compared to the homosexuals (23%) and significant differences across >sexual orientation were also observed for lifecourse specified transvestic fetishism. These >associations were strong but clearly not deterministic, however. Significant numbers of >participants reported transvestic fetishism at odds with Blanchard’s predictions (23% of the >homosexuals reported transvestic fetishism; 27% of the non-homosexuals did not report transvestic fetishism).

Blanchard found a correlation, but correlation does not equal causation.

This old man is saying if trans women are small???? then they are really trans and if they are not small then they are just sexually perverted men. That's about the same as European idiots hypothesizing that blacks were stupid because there is skull differences. Totally unscientific.

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I identify as AGP and I love having sex with men
I absolutely lust after their bodies and giving head is my favorite, it's like an art form
I've fallen in love once in my life and it was with a man
I've never had sex with a woman despite having many opportunities and girlfriends...the furthest I ever went with a female was sticking a single finger in a vagina, and I did not like it


I do have AGP though
these theories seem awful stupid desu

>>8818952
That's because you're the archetypal pseduo-het.

>>8816492
Oh look another old pervert cis man trying to explain what transsexualism is fuck off.

>>8816492
>5'7
>would be small as heck if I wasn't a chubbo, Slender arms and shoulders etc.
>Thick hips and butt
>Always got called gay in school, extremely passable voice, no facial hair has ever grown, tiny broken penis, expressive as shizz but not in a flaming homo way.
>Not a bloody lesbo
New flat mates assumed I was a girl after talking and smoking with them for a couple hours while in jeans and a hoodie with no make-up on (1.5 years hrt)

>>8818956
that label doesn't bother me, but it doesn't seem true

I felt like there was something physically wrong with me when my friend who I was sexually involved with got back together with his ex girlfriend...at first I got horrible headaches when I was trying to ignore what happened, then when I thought about it I started crying like I never had before in my life
for days after at work I had to take breaks to cry in the bathroom

so idk maybe that is just pseudo attraction but I legitimately was in love with him, in love with his face, in love with his personality...I've never felt so strongly about another person

Haven't watched the video but, Rod fleming has a blog where he mentions trans stuff sometimee and admits to being GAMP, but claims to not be AGP. He is pro HSTS but anti AGP. He's spent a lot of time in asia around asian trannies as well.

>>8819213
>but anti AGP.
What does he say against us?

>>8819274
That we're less valid than HSTSs, aggressive, predatory and we tend to speak over HSTSs and make ourselves the face of trans activism. Sometimes his mood varies and he can seem almost sympathetic. He's probably used to western boomer AGPs rather than the more andro(if lucky) gen y/z AGPs. He hates people like Danielle Muscato for example.

>>8819327
Reeks of self-hatred and repression.

>>8819364
Nah he's just a dumb chaser, his wife is trans I think

>bi, so AGP according to bisexuality deniers
>p feminine face, 5'8, tend to pass, especially when i use my girl voice in public
>shoulders are a little wide, but hips are also kinda shaped
>midface is slightly longer, but jaw/chin is 100% feminine
>started hrt at 18
is this mixed race priviledge?

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>>8819274
>What does he say against himself*
fixed for accuracy

>>8816492
I had a chaser once tell me (in the middle of a trans chat, so it was like him being honest I guess) that I had the most naturally feminine movements and expressions he had ever seen.

It was one of the creepiest things anyone ever said to me.

>>8816711
>>8816722
>>8816750
It stands for homosexual transsexual but means heterosexual transsexual.

>>8820767
lol no
it specifically is calling those who are only attracted to men that transition "homosexual males"

>>8816492
I looked through his videos and he's exactly what I thought.

He's a chaser dissatisfied with the dating pool of non-passing Western transwomen and prefers the transwomen of Southeast asia who have access to hormones at earlier ages.

>>8820791
exactly, its wrong. It says homosexual but actually means heterosexual.

What about the trans girl on Reddit who always shitposts about how she's attracted to her own body and claims to have AGP? She's only 5'7", is really thin, has a feminine face, passes completely, and started HRT at 17.

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>>8821206
See >>8816435 for the kinds of videos Rod likes.

>>8821436
What about her? Source?

Rod Flemings blog http://rodfleming.com/

Now i'm surprised this guy is making videos, I'll have to check them out, usually he just shitposts on blogs.

I'm a GAMP and a non transitioning AGP. So I can relate to this guy's attraction to trannies and his discomfort towards some AGPs.

The idea of AGPs being beastly masc men is very outdated. That stereotype applies only to older generations.

>>8821844
http://rodfleming.com/am-i-gay-if-i-like-transsexual-women/

I feel bad for him now tbhon

>>8821935
No, don't feel bad for him.
http://rodfleming.com/pattaya/

>>8821942
I do. That is legitimately pathetic. Regardless of whether Blanchardism is right, you're watching an old man ramble about AGP, reading into psych studies and creating completely non-scientific claims to justify him being a chaser because he can't come to grips with his own penis attraction/AGP/repressed homosexuality without some shred of "science" behind it.

It's more depressing someone can fall into a pit like that.

>>8821955
It's a vast mutual pit of individual ~~unique~~ realities these days.

Is it possible that there are more types than just HSTS and AGP?

I feel like both of those typologies as described by Blanchard are definitely real things and I've met a lot of people who clearly fit into either one or the other, but personally I don't think I clearly fit into either group and I've met a lot of people who similarly seem very borderline.

>>8822028
It's horrid for anyone who isn't a white middle class amab.

These typologies don't work in trans women and femmes in Black urban America.

>>8822028
I think androphiles on 4chan don't always fit neatly into Blanchard's typology. It's also insulting as hell when genuine attraction to men is dismissed as pseudo-het or meta-attraction.

>>8822028
Well, bisexuality is real, so is psuedo-bisexuality, but there are legitimately bisexual trans people, so there is that. Personally my first relationships, romantic and sexual attractions were to boys, in early puberty, but I maintained an interest in girls in the background and ended up with one now. Since I always took a feminine role, it's hard to categorize since it'd be a sign of an HSTS, but then my relationship with another girl is supposed to throw me into AGP territory. I believe my part in the dynamic here isn't hetero-contextualised, never has been. Point is, I am in love.

I think for the most part, the problem with this board's idea on blanchardism is shit like "AGPs are hairy old men" "HSTS are left wing" etc is just random things observed by people that has some logic behind it but can't accurately categorize everyone.
Example: "AGPs force themselves into women's spaces to validate their identities."
AGP being a highly sexual phenomena, it makes some sense that certain AGPs would be insecure and feel the need to force themselves into relevancy, but of course there are plenty of AGPs who are quite the opposite since nowhere would this behaviour be a "requirement" of an AGP more than a frequently observed behavioural pattern. Many are embarrassed about their AGP, transition early, do their best to pass, etc etc.

>>8822045
>transition early,
What does that have to do with it?

>>8822042
what does pseudo het even mean? i'm an androphilic mtf and i've been called one by people here several times. what makes it offensive?

If you get FFS, can that turn you from an AGP to an HSTS, or are you stuck being an AGP based on your original appearance?

>>8826286
It's offensive because it implies your heterosexuality isn't genuine. Like you're not actually attracted to men or able to form genuine relationships with them, you just want to be with men to fulfill your AGP fantasies.

>>8826390
People who buy into this theory, believe that AGPs have more robust, masculine skulls and bodies. So no in theory. But what retards like Kay and Rod don't seem to get is, the face of AGP is changing. Compare Zinnia Jones to a Caroline Cossey for example or even a young Kay Brown. I'd submit Eli Erlick too, but she's an extreme outlier.

>>8826286
It's meaningless, made up by the worshipers on 4chan to fill in the gap because their King didn't come up with this possibility.

AGP doesn't dictate appearance, you're all gross delusional hons

>>8826661
Pseudo bi? No, one of the Blanchardites came up with that theory, possibly ray ray himself.

>>8826678
Wrong. Ray Ray came up with "pseudobisexuality" but /tttt/ coined pseudo het.

PLS NOTICE US SENPAI

>>8827398
Oh I get it. Yes we did coin something. Looks like /tttt/ is leading the way in AGP research.

>>8827659
Just goes to show how credible it is!

>>8816492
>criteria
>will tend to be
I see definitions aren't a strong point...

>>8827906
>finally realizes that the AGP/HSTS typology is nothing but astrology-tier pseudoscience
There ya go, bud.

>>8827906
>>8827915
>Dogs tend to be larger than cats.
>tend to be

Cat/dog typology proven astrology-tier pseudoscience!

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>>8819364
>>8819327
>>8819213

>Reeks of self-hatred and repression.

This, if he's such a chaser chances are he's a repressing transbian. GAMPS, you know the drill. He's probably jealous of the newer generation of transbians that have luckily get informed on time and are transitioning and becoming quite passable.

>also, implying there aren't AGPs in Thailand. What an idiot.

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>>8822028

I've always had this theory.

Indeed, I'm a fan of Harry Benjamin theories, who says all trans are basically the same but with different degrees of various symptoms which are correlated.

Pic related.

>>8828354
Benjaminian typologies were provisional and obsoleted decades ago.

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>>8828417

yet they hit the nail in the head when it comes to the many trans that don't fit in the 2 obsolete categories.

Me, for example:

>naturally effeminate
>genuinely bi (not pseudo-bi)
>never experienced AGP (I can't even understand how a person can feel it, but I respect them because they're people)
>pink collar job
>late transitioner because repression.

According to Blanchard, I should be AGP, but how comes I am AGP when I haven't even experienced it?

Also, there are nonpassing HSTS, AGP hetero trans who are not "psuedo-anything", all those transbians who never experienced AGP and that appear even in Blanchard's results (which he ignored blatantly), and many more outlyers.

That classification isn't outdated, it just needs a revamp. the binary "this or the other but not in the middle" classification is the one who leaves many trans in a limbo.

What the fuck do you expect from a "scientist" that believes bisexuality doesn't exist, that gay are mentally ill, or that any form of sex that doesn't directly lead to reproduction is a fetish? Well, you can expect prejudice and a theory designed to stymatize and promote suffering.

And every trans in this board should think about the above paragraph. Period.

>>8828451
>the 2 obsolete categories.
The two types that obsolete Benjaminism.

>genuinely bi (not pseudo-bi)
How do you tell the difference?

>never experienced AGP (I can't even understand how a person can feel it, but I respect them because they're people)
What are your sexual fantasies?

>>8828473
let me guess you're the type who thinks that agps "make actual trans people look bad"

>>8828473

>How do you tell the difference?

I don't need a man to fulfill a sexual fantasy of being a woman, I love men for what they are, smell, look and behave. Had sex with men way before transitioning, without the need to crossdress, while in boy mode, just for lust.

>What are your sexual fantasies?

Pretty vanilla, indeed. Just having sex. Sometimes I fantasize about threesomes.

Many of my fantasies tend to be simmilar to those of cis women: having bad guys for one night stands, being spoiled by a rich guy, having a caring and loving hunk for stable relationships. I do enjoy porn about men masturbating solo. I also enjoy gay porn. And erotic novels.

My fantasies about girls are more faint, and vanilla too, just to do a threesome with my hubby for example, or having a tourist stay in our home for a couple days while we just enjoy some sexual freedom. I have the same fantasies with guys too (2 guys and me, or having a male tourist stay for a couple days while we enjoy sexual freedom)

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>>8828529

Indeed, consider myself a 1-2 in the kinsey scale, considering me female. I can have one night stands with girls, but I don't see myself having an stable relationship with a woman. I much prefer male personality for a long term relationship, I like it, it complements mine so well.

And yet I'd have one night stands with women if I find them attractive.

>>8828515
How do you figure that?

>>8828529
Nothing you describe is intrinsically not AGP. It's just not obviously AGP.

You're not an exception to the two types.

>>8828618
why do you think blancard's types are more accurate than benjamin's? why do you think sexual orientation is the best or most accurate way of classifying transsexuals into types? do you have proof that it is?

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>>8828618

>SUCH MENTAL GYMNASTICS

okay whatever. Trolls these days...

So what's "intrinsically not AGP" for you?

>>8828639

Because he's a troll that takes blanchardian shit as if it was newtonian mechanics.

Let him be with his black and white world, leave him ignorant of the wonders of the universe.

>>8828639
How do you figure >>8828515?

>>8828643
>pointing out that you're getting the typology wrong
>mental gymnastics
>trolling
No.

>>8828655
The typology has no predictive value.

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>>8828655


You still havent answered my question in >>8828643

Come at me bro

>>8828648
>muh newtonianism
>muh B&W world
t. Benjaminian

>>8828655
the blanchard system is attractive to anyone with an agenda to (without any concrete evidence) divide transpeople into "true" and "false" types, with the "false" group being the larger one by far and the only one where having certain characteristics will include you into it by default, and then none of your other features matter

>>8816492
ew

>>8828683
If anyone sees either type as "false" then that reflects on their judgement, not on the type.

>>8828696
ok, now you answer my questions
>>8828639

>>8828696

Don't be so naïve.

Again the classification was made from a right-wing guy who believes gays should be "cured", now imagine his agenda :3

>>8828639
>>8828710
It explains why people are trans. Benjamin's are just groupings of observable characteristics. Superficial, not etiological.

>>8828726
the problem is that there's little to no proof that the defining characteristics of the two types are mutually exclusive

>>8828726

No, it gives no reason, it's just a description. There's no known reason for the origin of HSTS, and AGP is a poor explanation for a reason to transition, knowing AGP can happen in 25% of HSTS and that many transbians don't experience it, so it is more of a symptom than a cause.

also, this

>>8828742

>>8828742
The difference is etiological regardless of what can be observed.

>>8828795
so in other words you like it because it's convenient for you?
despite the fact that it's a piss-poor diagnostic tool because there are few clear-cut cases (unless you're a blanchardian, in which case certain features will conveniently always "prove" you are in the larger group)

>>8828795

>etiological

You don't fucking know what that means, or else you'd STFU here -->>>8828775

Shit trolls today are dense.

Also, you're a cis man, so I don't expect you to understand a shit about how bieng a trans woman feels like, so I'm leaving right now. You've been ridiculized enough for today, good job. Bye!

>>8828795
Questionnaires and case study observations from the 80s don't make an etiology.

PS: isn't it curious how the man himself has abandoned all work on the typology to go study pedophile white matter all day long?

>>8828842
How is it convenient for me?

>there are few clear-cut cases
There are plenty.

>>8828895
There are always plenty of trees to those willing to overlook the clearcutting.

>>8828865

>PS: isn't it curious how the man himself has abandoned all work on the typology to go study pedophile white matter all day long?

He created a troll, the troll was successful, then the internet came and trannies started making communities and talking to each other all over the world, discovering the truth.

He's just hiding in an cave, because he knows he fucked up by adding prejudices to his "conclusions".

Sometimes he appears to troll a bit because he hates trannies and can't resist it, but he goes back to his cave sooner than later, before the scientific community pays much attention and he gets his as served in a peer-review plate.

>>8828895
i don't know, how is it? is it because you believe that the underlying claim is true, that you are always either one group or the other?

>>8828905
Even this book specifically dealing with youth sexual disorders and paraphilias co-written by R. Blanchard just disregards all the work he did in the 80s. Doesn't even mention the word agp.

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=tGwKQSrhDq8C

I think he's ashamed, myself, at least in a formal setting. Maybe on Twitter he can still summon up the shitposting but to his colleagues he seems a little cowed about his pet hypothesis. Unwilling to invest any more work into it. The man has not published a formal paper on the subject since like 1993, only self-absorbed summaries of his old findings. He seems far more interested in pedos and birth orders determining homosexuality and showing bonobo sex tape to unlucky participants to record their sexual arousal.

No, really.

http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2007-17941-013

>The videotaped stimuli included men and women engaging in same-sex intercourse, solitary masturbation, or nude exercise (no sexual activity); human male-female copulation; and animal (bonobo chimpanzee or Pan paniscus) copulation. Genital and subjective sexual arousal were continuously recorded. The genital responses of both sexes were weakest to nude exercise and strongest to intercourse.

>>8828852
>Also, you're a cis man
How do you figure that?

>>8828916
You told me it was?

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>>8828895

Real cases I've personally meet:

>the AGP HSTS in a pink collar job

>The HSTS in STEM

>The HSTS who liked sports cars, guns, shoters and martial arts and acquired make up as a late acquisition.

>All the HSTS who never made more than some nail polish and had to learn make-up after beginning hrt.

>The HSTS who never questioned her gender identity until a bisexual boyfriend asked her to fuck in girl's clothes and then she suddenly realized she felt released and happy so she found her place in life.

>The lipstick lesbian in a pink collar job who never knew what AGP was

>The drag queen who transitioned late in her mid 30's and always considered herself a man. LATE ONSET HSTS? WHAT THE FUCK?

>The bisexual effeminate in a pink collar job who's never been AGP and who was surprised the day she discovered such a thing ever existed

>the HSTS who transitioned only because she wanted to have more sex and has zero femininity

>the HSTS who likes to top, there are many.

>the HSTS who likes men but finds trannies fuckable because penis

>the AGP early transitioners, many of them, very passing, some very femenine indeed

>The repressing HSTS who'd never transition because reasons and repression.

>All of the HSTS who lied about their narrative to fit into the "traditional narrative" fosterd by Blanchard and gatekeeping but that secretly admit you in private that they weren't GNC and/or that their dysphoria started after puberty

All of them real girls I've met through my transition. I'm one of the listed ones, indeed. And the list goes on and on...

Now it's when you come and say "all AGP because reasons"

>tfw I'm not doing this to lecture you, but to teach and free all my fellow trans girls from prejudice and invalid science.

>>8828958
uhh no i didn't? i said
"there are few clear-cut cases"
and
"there's little to no proof that the defining characteristics of the two types are mutually exclusive"
in >>8828683 i was only describing how the system works, not saying that i believed in it myself

>>8828958

Tranny ESP hahaha! irt does that to social intelligence, I love it <3

>>8828986
Nah, blanchardfag is an AGP repressor hon.

>>8828978
>>8828842
>so in other words you like it because it's convenient for you?
How is it convenient for me?

>>8829005
Because the typology is the best excuse you have to spam the board all day.

>>8829005
i
don't
know
i just assumed it is because you believe in it despite everything that goes against it

>>8829005

because you can avoid confronting your simplistic beliefs against this piece of reality >>8828975

>>8829013
I'd just told you why I believe it.

>>8829036
you mean >>8828795 ?
no, you just told me that you do believe that the two groups (always) have different etiologies

>>8818726
actually skull difference might and does influence brain size and capabilities, blacks are stupid, and Europeans aren't the only ones who say it

>>8829036
You didn't, you just did your typical asspie tactic of claiming you were right and then stamping your feet whenever people disagree.

>>8829045
>>8828726

>>8829063
>>8828943

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lol AGP and HSTS are fake shit made up by some dumb Canuck in the 80s. Why the fuck do you idiots care about this shit so much, I know 4chan is where contrarian morons congregate but the extent to which this has spread on /lgbt/ is ridiculous. This is like if /sci/ had legit Flat Earthers on it as the majority or if /his/torians accepted Ancient Astronauts as the default assumption for the Egyptian Pyramids' existence. Please, someone tell me this is just because some posters on this board have way too much time and are overrepresented because they're always fucking online and that you dumb bitches don't think this shit is actually real.

>>8829063
yes, you said that you believe there are such clear-cut things as AGP and HSTS and you are always one or the other and you believe in this rather than in benjamin's system because benjajmin's system has no theory on why people are trans
why do you believe blanchard's system is right though?

>>8829071
It's one dedicated shitposter with MPD who pretends to be various other tripfags on this board so he can LARP as if anyone actually agrees with him. He likes to cite unknown discord servers to prove he's part of a cabal.

>>8829080
do you believe cara is a side personality too?

>>8821672
LMAO what a sleazy piece of shit
and a transphobic rightwinger to boot

>>8829076
What other explanation is there for the apparent two types?

>>8829094
A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1]

Aside from being an informal fallacy depending on usage, such questions may be used as a rhetorical tool: the question attempts to limit direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[2] The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious.[2] Hence the same question may be loaded in one context, but not in the other. For example, the previous question would not be loaded if it were asked during a trial in which the defendant had already admitted to beating his wife.[2]

>>8829094
so you believe that an explanation with little concrete evidence to prove it (there exist two types with no overlap and nothing in between) is better than no explanation at all?
and that it's viable because nothing else exists?

>>8829107
There was no "proof" of general relativity when Einstein proposed it.

>>8829113
Hence why he had to prove it with the Solar eclipse of May 29, 1919.

>Albert Einstein's prediction of the bending of light by the gravity of the Sun, one of the components of his general theory of relativity, can be tested during a solar eclipse, when stars with apparent position near the sun become visible. Following an unsuccessful attempt to validate this prediction during the Solar eclipse of June 8, 1918,[1] two expeditions were made to measure positions of stars during this eclipse. The first was led by Sir Frank Watson Dyson and Sir Arthur Eddington to the island of Principe (off the west coast of Africa), the second by Andrew Claude de la Cherois Crommelin and Charles Davidson to Sobral in Brazil.[2] The stars that both expeditions observed were in the constellation Taurus.[3]

Have anything else? Or would you rather just LARP as historical figures far beyond your caliber some more?

>>8829113
yes but general relativity stands up very well when applied to real world cases, unlike blanchardianism

>>8829130
Blanchardianism does. Corner cases are not exceptions.

>>8829140

Unfalsifiability

(also known as: untestability)

Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.

Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.

>>8829140
do you believe that a descriptive classification of "typical early" and "typical late" transitioners and of features that are often but not always seen in the two misses something essential about transsexuality?

>>8829164
Yes. Transition age, orientation, femininity, etc are just crude estimates of the two types. The fact that they correlate but only roughly shows this.

>>8829184
but if they only roughly correlate how do you deternine who's agp and who's hsts?
and what use does an explanation serve if it can't be proven to be absolutely right, even in individual cases? and even if you assume that its right and explains transsexualism, what use is blanchardianism and classifying people?

>>8829199
>but if they only roughly correlate how do you deternine who's agp and who's hsts?
By looking at the complete picture and learning their individual case.

>and what use does an explanation serve if it can't be proven to be absolutely right, even in individual cases? and even if you assume that its right and explains transsexualism, what use is blanchardianism and classifying people?
Ask Einstein prior to >>8829127

>>8829248
you can't compare a theory that can be proven by calculations to a theory that claims it can conclusively and without exception know what's happening in people's heads from circumstantial evidence

>>8829263
There's never evidence for how people think and they can perfectly be compared before the former was "proven".

>>8829296
but what is blanchardianism if not trying to tell people which of the two for some reason mutually exclusive processes is going on in their minds in regards to transsexuality, often by making wild assumptions with no proper evidence, with the justification being that the theory must be right because no proof of anything else exists?

>>8829336
>often by making wild assumptions with no proper evidence,
?

>with the justification being that the theory must be right because no proof of anything else exists?
The justification is that it's how transsexuality works.

>>8829374
but
there's
no
actual
proof
especially of that there's nothing in between the two types
it's not scientific and beyond the cases that happen to fit well into one group or the other the classification is completely arbitrary and up to the person making the decision, which makes the system dangerously open to abuse
it's not a good or trustworthy system of classifying people and as such serves no practical purpose

>>8829397
What wild assumptions did you mean?

>>8829053
>blanchardians finally admit they want to revive phrenology

>>8829408
the times when a blanchardian has to decide the type with a coin flip because the person mystifyingly doesn't fit either one of their boxes

>>8829422
When?

>>8829071
AGP experiencing narcissistic injury detected.

>>8829435
please stop getting caught up on details all of the time and disprove my point please
is there a clearly defined set of rules as to who is agp and who is hsts? are the rules arbitrary or are they based on something? is the decision ultimately up to the person asking the questions?

Why is it that all HSTS are passable and cute but all AGP are gross ugly hons? Really makes you think

>>8829461
Yes, I want to see a checklist or something that anyone can use.

>>8829465
That really does indeed trigger your cerebral response tbhon

>>8829461
It's simply a matter of it sometimes being hard to tell.

>>8829516
i rest my case
i have to go sleep, bye

>>8829538
>it's hard to tell
>therefore it's arbitrary and the whole concept of a distinction is wrong

>>8829516
The whole typology is built so that people who don't clearly belong into either type are all automatically placed in the "worse one", because it's based on sorting people into the few "true" transpeople and the many "false" ones

>>8829547
so tell me why it isn't arbitrary then
i assumed that because you didn't, you can't

>>8829566
Because hard to tell != arbitrary...

>>8829558
The typology doesn't prefer either category as more true or worse over the other. It only sorts trannies to categories based on sexual needs and possible methods of meeting those needs.

It's assumed that homosexual men would get sexual gratification by having sex with straight men so the transition makes sense. The problem arises for straight and bisexual men when their transition seems to diminish their chance for sexual gratification. With the descriptions accompanying the types you can fill in the gaps and show that they have a substitute method of sexual gratification.

Not once does it ever assume that either group has or will ever develop a female sexual orientation or female sexual behavior. It's purely from the perspective of transsexuals as men with male sexual needs.

>>8829581
ok, so when it's hard to tell, the person who's determining gets to make the decision personally?

>>8829588
Where do you imagine this is happening?

>>8829585
the problem is that there's no proof and no way to conclusively prove that transition is always (or indeed ever) for (purely) sexual reasons
it's just taken for granted that it's true and that it can be proven that a person is one type or the other
which is why full-blown blanchardianism nothing but a pet theory for a few true believers
>>8829603
on this board for example?

>>8828975
Trannies on here always argue with each other like exhibited actions and professed desires determines biology not the other way around.

>>8829623
On this board people post their own opinions.

You might as well complain that when someone posts "am I trans?" they get different answers.

>>8829623
The typology already presupposes a necessary sexual necessity for humans like many sexology works do. It even explains that people can suppress their natural sexual instinct to substitute with their gender based sexual gratification.

You guys shouldn't try to retrofit something that is purely based on sexual theories to other things like who looks better or who is younger.

>>8829633
>On this board people post their own opinions
what do people do in real life then?
blanchardianism does ""work"" in that it's internally valid
the problem is that none of it has nothing to do with real life and real people

>>8829662
I don't even know what you're asking any more. Can you tell me how what you're saying can't be said about anything else?

>>8829648
but is it true and can it be proven that that's actually the reason that people transition? or is it just a hunch?

>>8829648
It's a fundamental flaw in the theory to assume that sexual gratification is the driving force behind being trans and transitioning.

>>8829676
if, when trying to determine if someone is AGP or HSTS people post their own opinions on this board, is there a place where someone's type is not ultimately a matter of opinion and why?

>>8829690
What can't this be said of?

It can be said of "am I trans", "am I gay", "am I asexual", everything.

Why don't you deny all those things exist too?

>>8829703
the difference is that nobody claims that they can determine if someone is gay or asexual from their childhood, hobbies and interests, looks or behavior

>>8829718
People relate their histories of sexual attraction in all those cases and you can't claim non-sexual behavior is irrelevant when it's a key part of trans narratives with or without Blanchard.

>>8829729
if it's just a matter of "history of sexual attraction" to fit everyone into one type or the other, why is it sometimes "hard to tell"? why can't something exist between the two types?
bisexuality and only experiencing either romantic or sexual attraction exist, why is blanchardianism an either-or system?

>>8829745
>why is it sometimes "hard to tell"?
Because incomplete knowledge?

What you are asking for is the impossible. Do you think every "am I bi or gay?" post can be unequivocally answered in some infallible way "am I HSTS or AGP?" can't? No? Then why are you asking for that of Blanchardianism?

>why can't something exist between the two types?
>bisexuality and only experiencing either romantic or sexual attraction exist, why is blanchardianism an either-or system?
Because the two types are not on the same spectrum.

>>8829680
>>8829682
Most early theories presuppose some sexual basis in one way or another. Another is that a woman trapped in the body of a man was a straight woman that needed a vagina in order to live a complete life.

Even the ideas and methods of transition were developed in this same simplified environment during a time when people didn't really understand many things. Any theory you read today is going to have flaws that will need correcting decades down the line. Basing your life on what these theories say is like building a house on sand.

>>8816756
What about her? She identifies as a trans lesbian and was stereotypically masculine before transition (joined a fraternity), but she looks really feminine and passed quickly after starting HRT. Also, one of the posters on /r/asktransgender identifies as a trans lesbian, but she was intersex, only 5'4", and really feminine looking even before starting HRT.

>>8829762
>not on the same spectrum.
only if you assume that transition is always sexually motivated without exception and no other reasons exist, which is ridiculous
>>8829765
the problem is that people today present those theories as infallible

>>8829796
>>not on the same spectrum.
>only if you assume that transition is always sexually motivated without exception and no other reasons exist, which is ridiculous
That doesn't make sense in the context of HSTS and AGP each being their own spectrum and if you think there's a third type, what is it?

>>8829808
the third type is everyone who transitioned for reasons unrelated to their sexual orientation
they can be anywhere on the HSTS-AGP spectrum for which there is about as much proof as there is for two different spectrums

>>8826639
Well, Zinnia Jones actually has a fairly feminine face. The only reason that she doesn't look like an average girl is because she dyes her hair and doesn't wear particularly feminine clothing.

>>8821675
I think that /u/ScrewOffDad is her current Reddit username. She has posted pictures of herself before, but she deleted them. Anyway, she's a counterexample because she openly claims to have AGP but is small and feminine-looking.

>>8829828
>everyone who transitioned for reasons unrelated to their sexual orientation
Who?

>the HSTS-AGP spectrum for which there is about as much proof as there is for two different spectrums
A spectrum of HSTS-AGP literally doesn't make sense. Like, what's in the middle and what are the extremes?

>>8829854
i can't give you names but i assure you that those people exist
can you prove to me that people transition for sexual reasons? who?
the middle is bisexuals, the extremes are andro- and gynephiles
oh but you probably don't believe that bisexuality exists do you? even in FAAB people?
do you believe in AAP and FTM HSTS by the way?
can you explain how FTM HSTS transition is sexually motivated?

>>8829871
>i can't give you names but i assure you that those people exist
You obviously have a very poor understanding of the typology so why is your assurance worth anything?

>the middle is bisexuals, the extremes are andro- and gynephiles
Except AGP doesn't correlate exactly with exclusive gynephilia.

>>8829885
you obviously have a poor understanding of transsexuality if you know of nobody who transitioned for nonsexual reasons
i thought the blanchardian understanding of AGP bisexuality was that it was essentially a side effect of their extreme (self)gynephilia?

>>8829796
No theory is infallible only a belief can be infallible. Science necessitates fallibility in everything so that it can give methods to disprove hypotheses.

When someone presents something as infallible it's because they have an agenda, they want it to be true. Falsifying a hypothesis doesn't erase all of the evidence and related theories but it does free them up for an improved interpretation. As you can see that also means you can't make inconvenient evidence disappear by disproving a theory.

>>8829957
what if the hypothesis is unfalsifiable?

>>8829993
Then it's just a belief and it's not scientifically valid, much like belief in god.

>>8828272
He has an awesome theory about this somewhere on his blog. AGPs ladyboys are a thing but blend in to the untrained observer. Why? Because they can transition young without gatekeeping or strong transphobia. Also because ladyboy AGPs are strictly pseudo het. No transbians over there. He claims he can tell the difference quite easily.

This theory of Rod's is huge to AGP research. Rod and Kay get into a spat about it in his comments because Kay's all "muh studies" and Rod's all "muh original research".

>>8828354
I love Harry Benjamin's theory, it means i'm a girl too! Triggers my AGP.

>>8828975
Holy shit! So many outliers!

>>8828943
His theory is fine for way back when and explained what he was observing. But he stubbornly refused to change it with the times.

>>8829832
Yep and there are others like her. But the AGP experts wanna act like HSTS=femme AGP=masc. Thats generally true but its not set in stone. Its almost a relgion in a way, one of its tenets is outliers don't exist.

>>8825580
Transtrenders typically transition late because they never felt dysphoira.

>>8830378
>I love Harry Benjamin's theory, it means i'm a girl too! Triggers my AGP.

>implying Blanchardianism doesn't imply you're a girl too

>>8830380
>doesn't know anything about AGP

File: really makes you think.jpg (58KB, 739x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>8830400
>implying Blanchardianism doesn't imply you're a girl too


god when will you stupid blanchard-fags realize your pseudoscientific typology quite obviously implicitly undermines the identities of transgender women / men. not only is the typology unscientific/unfalsifiable, it also plays off of and reinforces through "scientific" discourse classic patriarchal / sexist / transmisogynistic stereotypes that have plagued trans women long before this typology ever existed. the mental gymnastics you people preform to believe this utter bullshit is pretty astounding.

>>8830400
Well it depends. Orthodox Blanchardism would consider me a man with an ETLE. Orthodox Blanchardism doesn't consider trannies(HSTS or AGP) neurologically intersex.

>>8830536
If Blanchardianism doesn't mean I'm a girl then why does it trigger my AGP?

>>8816557
So is transgenderism...

File: tumblr_nl2t1k7OyB1sidfiqo1_1280.jpg (436KB, 1200x1120px) Image search: [Google]

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>>8830482

This

All blanchardians are dialy bombarded with outlyers and perform serious conceptual stretches to protect their theory against reality, at all costs.

Also, it doesn't help 99% of them are cis and don¡t know shit about what being an insider in the trans community is like.

Being trans means other trans will be sincere to you and tell you things they'd never tell to cis people.

Also, the 1% of trans people who support blanchardianism are AGPs who want to save face by throwing all other trans under the bus, thus, they'd do ANYTHING to justify blanchardianism, even faking being HSTS lol.

We need a typology/dIagnosis MADE BY TRANS PEOPLE AND FOR TRANS PEOPLE.

Also, again, AGP is a symptom, not an etiology.

>Most 80's researchers where 40's qand 50's kids who grew in conservative environments and were full of prejudices.

We just need a new model, one which accepts the wide diversity of cases, narratives and symptoms we do have, instead of encapsulating us in 2 tiny "on-size-fits-all" boxes.

Also, stop talking to the blanchardian trolls in this thread, they're cis and they don't know what being trans really is. Pic fucking related.

>>8830990
>Also, the 1% of trans people who support blanchardianism are AGPs who want to save face by throwing all other trans under the bus,
K E K
E
K

File: tetris-taught-me-that-when-you-try-to-fit-in-14003145.png (157KB, 500x522px) Image search: [Google]

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I just love how the blanchardian faggots have CAREFULLY AVOIDED to answer to this post -----> >>8828975

Hahahaha, what does that mean, you coward assholes? what does your cherished unscientific theory say about these?

>>8830457
i said trenders not agp
r u dumb