All the issues in a nutshell pertaining to what the left doe

Peterson is a duck!

nothing new
when commies come to power most of the useful idiots and 'activists' get prosecuted and any rebellious people who helped to destroy the old order become enemies for the new system

>>8778217
how is that even relevant to what peterson said at 5 minutes and 13 seconds.

>>8777687
Holy hell I just watched his lecture at the Ottawa library and it changed my life

>>8777687
Who the hell is Jordan Peterson and where is he a professor and what of?

>>8778526
how?

>>8778548
He's a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. He wrote a book called Maps of Meaning investigating the truths in mythology and symbolism about human nature, really fascinating stuff.

>>8778564
I don't know, I guess I feel empowered to make the world better. He has a sublime grasp of some of the truths at the core of western civilization

>>8778217
Where did the idea that Trump is anti gay came from? Like, seriously, what the fuck? He never said anything remotely anti-gay, and he wants to stop the virulent religion known for killing gays right now.

Do liberals really have their brains plugged backwards?

>>8778579
what truths?

>>8778573
So he's Jungian school, or...

>>8778595
Kind of? I haven't read his work and I'm not too familiar with Jung (outside the Persona games kek) but he's definitely sympathetic to the importance and meaning of archetypes

>>8778580
Appointing a judge who wants to overturn marriage equality didn't tip you off?

>>8778580

>Where did the idea that Trump is anti gay came from?

Well I don't know, maybe naming Mike "Turning Fruits into Vegetables" Pence his vice-president can be considered as an antigay movement.

But maybe I'm retarded and Pence is the greatest LGTB supporter and all the stuff about the shocks was a campaign organized between Clinton, China and Kim Jon-Un.

>>8778573

Well, what he said just covers every human being and every group ever on Earth, why do you just apply that (shitty, empty and generic) sentence only to the left and to trans people? You know you can apply it to conservative parties? Or as it is usually applied, the Nazis and the Germans?

As usually you just try to attack the left before looking at yourself and the movements you support.

Many authoritarians are becoming the voice of the left and making us all seem like irrational children who expect the world to tiptoe around us.
It's unfortunate to see so many t. dislike Dr Jordan Peterson without even listening to what he has to say. If you listen you'll realize he's not speaking out against trans people, but against authoritarians who falsely claim they represent us.
Of course to people who just look at the surface, they just see some dude vocally against trans people (who, again, are authoritarians who falsely claim they are representatives of all trans people, not actually representatives of all trans people).
So some people who actually dislike trans people will stupidly support him, and some people who are supportive of trans people will stupidly oppose him.

>>8778613
>implying he won't cuck out

>>8778697
He hasn't really said anything anti-trans as far as I'm aware. Anti-made up pronouns sure, but that's anti-queer (it's time to start making a distinction)

>>8778615
>Mike "Turning Fruits into Vegetables" Pence his vice-president
You know the vice president does literally nothing, Trump basically took him out of politics.

>>8778717
vice president is first in line for succession and has the tie breaking vote in senate (which pence has already used)

he does seem like trumps version Dmitry Medvedev (putin's """"successor"""" due to constitutional limits)

>>8778711
exactly my point. He has not said anything anti-trans. perhaps about the transtrenders yes, but even then he's against the fact that they tend to demand everyone use their made up pronouns that literally only they know. these genders are not backed by science, they only exist within the realm of that particular branch of leftist authoritarian ideology. and they want to use the state to enforce this groupthink.
I guarantee they would even try to arrest me or other trans people for not acknowledging these made up pronouns.

>>8778717
As retarded as expected, the vice-president does A LOT in every hellish country on the world, the key is that he doesn't have to face the media so you think he is rubbing his dick all the day everyday.

>>8778697
He's completely ignorant of the science behind what makes someone trans.

>>8778730
lol no, that's utterly retarded. pence didn't even want trump to be gop nominee. pence is more likely to be the gop's open plant in the cabinet, so the party can control the independent who somehow became its president.

>>8778764
the man is a licensed clinical psychologist and has been so for many years. It is unlikely he isn't well versed on the science.
I would like to see a video where he demonstrates a lack of understanding on trans people, because from what I've seen he's said that the idea that gender is just social construct goes against the strongest argument for the validation of trans people, which is that it is physical.

>>8778800
>The man is a licensed clinical psychologist and has been so for many years.
Then I don't understand why he'd say the things he is saying.

>I would like to see a video where he demonstrates a lack of understanding on trans people, because from what I've seen he's said that the idea that gender is just social construct goes against the strongest argument for the validation of trans people, which is that it is physical.
I admittedly haven't watched his videos, only read some of what he wrote, and not much at that since he immediately started ranting about Marxists and The West.The issue is that this is framed as a nature versus nurture thing when quite a few things are both nature and nurture. Some aspects of gender arise from the physical realities of sex. From the aggregate differences between men and women. Some aspects of gender are then constructed on top of this biological layer based on rather arbitrary social mores.

Sex, and thus the biological portion of gender, is overwhelmingly binary in the sense that almost all humans fall within one of two ranges of associated traits. People with intersex conditions (which trans people are now theorized to be among because a great deal of neurological studies show that they're heavily neurologically "shifted", on the population level, toward being between the sexes) break this pattern. This does not mean that the two statistical peaks containing the majority of humans do not exist but that there IS a minority that falls between them. What label you decide to place on that minority is ultimately rather arbitrary. Objectively speaking they're neither entirely like men or entirely like women. You could "round" them to whichever group they're more like or to whichever group they identify as. You could create a new set of pronouns for them. You could do both. The thing is that there is nothing which compels us to do any of that. Any label we place is a matter of convenience and utility.

>>8778800
>>8778868
So here's the thing: if what label we end up applying is our choice, with the understanding that labeling something in a certain way does not have to shift our underlying understand of that thing (e.g. calling transsexuals men or women, either in the way they prefer or vice versa, does not change how we think of their condition), then why not go for the label with the highest utility? Being gendered "correctly" matters a lot to transsexuals and there's no meaningful cost to doing so.

If verbal accuracy is truly our number one concern then adopting third gender pronouns like Zhe is exactly what we'd need to do.

>>8778764
There isn't science behind it.
The brain scan studies are constantly misrepresented by trannies to infer a psyiological link. Sophistry

>>8778868
>the biological portion of gender
?

>>8778868
What exactly don't you understand about what he saying? I myself am a psych major studying to be a clinical psychologist and I see no issue with what he says. Those who subscribe to the multiple/infinite genders ideology are not necessarily trans, they're political ideologues (not science), and there's nothing wrong about speaking out against a political ideology.

Your argument for those in between the gender binary sounds very similar to Theryn Meyer's, which attempts to portray the binary as a spectrum as well. I would recommend looking up her video on it. I think it is a one possible tool that could be used for classifying transgender people and those who don't so neatly fit into the typical binary. At the very least it's an argument to made.

And about language being used a matter of convenience and utility, that's actually something Dr Jordan Peterson speaks about in an interview with Steve Paikin. I recommend looking it up. He makes the point that multiple genders are not a useful tool and is the reason why many have had to use the full weight of the law in order to legally enforce that people use them. This is an extreme breach of freedom of speech because, again, it is using the state to force you to say something, which is completely authoritarian.

>>8778903
The intersex view is the prevailing view among actual professionals Anon. It's still a theory since there is no conclusive proof but it is a well-backed one. If you see an incredibly strong correlation between two traits they're probably related in some fashion, and if one is inborn then that suggests a very specific directionality.

The big misinterpretation is "transsexuals have brains of the other sex" when the truth is that "transsexuals have brains which are shifted toward being like those of the other sex in some ways but not in others, typically falling in-between the male and female poles".

File: but why.gif (1MB, 400x224px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 400x224px

>>8778920
>tfw already having known this doesn't make it hurt less
>tfw would have been fine with being either, just so long as I could be something concrete

>>8778646
>misuse of adverbs
>WIR WOLLEN KEINE ANTIFA SCHWEINE

>>8778892
Again, you can not force people to think the way you want them to. And do not be so quick to think that there's no meaningful cost to change the words that uses to express oneself. It may very well be incredibly difficult for someone to gender someone the way they may want.
Zhe/zim are not words that people outside of that political ideology use. And so using those words would mean I subscribe to the ideology that genders are infinite and purely social constructions, which I do not. So now, it's one thing to ask someone to use your preferred pronouns, it's another thing to obligate them to use a certain language under threat of legal consequences and criminal charges.
If using the "right" pronouns was as insignificant as you seem to put it, that it literally takes no effort, then why does it matter so much that people use them?

>>8778764
>implying the users of this board aren't

>>8778920
Yeah your being intellectually dishonest, there is no evidence of the inference that these differences we see are "hard-wired". For all we know these brain differences are the results of gender dysphoria not the cause. The medical community has HARDLY reached a consensus on this. When you are disingenuous like this it just gives bigots more ammunition.

>>8778973
A few are blanchardians.

>>8778920
>http://transcience-project.org/brain_sex.html
>Like in many areas of science, it is difficult to unravel cause and effect. It is important to iterate that none of the studies presented provide us with a definite cause for gender dysphoria. It is also likely that gender dysphoria, and the social experiences it confers, also shape the brain.

>>8778918
I don't have a problem with him arguing what he is arguing on a political level (well, in the sense that I don't think doing so means he is ignorant of trans research). You're right. One can be well-versed in the subject and still support certain politics. What I took an issue with is the idea that sticking to binary pronouns is somehow "more accurate" when we're describing a group that is in some ways fundamentally different. You could argue either way without being intellectually dishonest.

>>8778963
>Again, you can not force people to think the way you want them to.
That's ultimately a political argument about what we should or should not do, but yes I think that it is fair to say this. What I'm trying to say here is that The Truth isn't strictly on either side when it comes to applying labels if you're going for anything but descriptive power, and descriptive power would demand that we came up with a new label. I don't have an issue with the argument that forcing someone to adopt a label is a violation of free speech (though whether that's a problem is another discussion).

>>8778943
Cheer up. HRT shifts some aspects of the brain, such as white matter volume, further in the desired direction.

>>8778943
The answer is it doesn't matter. You want to be a girl, that's enough.

>>8778977
Why would Gender Dysphoria virilize/feminize the brain? Why do we find such differences in areas whose future shape is known to be heavily influenced by natal hormones? Why do other animals such, such as rats and monkeys, exhibit cross-sex behavior when exposed to natal androgens at key moments during their natal development even though they show no external signs of being like the other sex? Alternative arguments are on the ropes at this point.

I said that this is the prevailing view, meaning that this is what most professionals now suspect to be true. I also said that it is a theory which has yet to be conclusively proved.

>>8779023
>Why would Gender Dysphoria virilize/feminize the brain?
It's not the GID itself, it's the thinking like a man/woman in the first place, since that's what does the exact same to cis people's brains.

Shouldn't it be masculinize, not virilize?

>>8778990
>The TranScience Project is dedicated to collecting, categorizing and presenting the science on gender dysphoria and transgenderism in a simple, straightforward and effective manner.

>All the content on this site is written by volunteers.

See:
>>8779023

>>8778953
>Can't reply with a proper argument
>Complains about grammar

I'm happy I don't live in America, God save your country.

>>8779028
>It's not the GID itself, it's the thinking like a man/woman in the first place, since that's what does the exact same to cis people's brains.
We know that hormones (both those circulating in your system now and those you were exposed to in the womb) radically affect the shape of the brain. I won't deny that thinking in a certain way can change things but we don't have any evidence that "thinking like a man or a woman" can radically shift the gendered characteristics of the brain.

>Shouldn't it be masculinize, not virilize?
Both terms are used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virilization
>Virilization or masculinization is the biological development of sex differences, changes that make a male body different from a female body.

>>8779009
Might be FTM, anon.

>>8779005
I think our difference in opinion is that we have a different understanding of Dr. Peterson and his motives. I don't claim to know universal truth, but it is my opinion that binary pronouns are more accurate in majority of scenarios, and actually validate trans people more so than the social construction theory. I could give some examples such as the case of David Reimer, who was transitioned as a girl because a doctor messed up a circumcision that damaged his penis as a baby. According to social construction theory that baby should have completely identified as a woman because that is how he was socialized, but that is not what happened. He transitioned back to man when he found out and eventually committed suicide. As unfortunate as this story is, it shows that biology has a lot to do with it. Though he had female hormones since childhood and was socialized female, he was still a man and transitioned back into a man. Examples like these are why I believe that trans people are being genuine when they say that they are "trapped in the wrong body" and why I am opposed to the social construction/multiple genders ideology. It's why I am glad people like Dr Peterson are brave enough to speak out even when those in power are doing all they can to silence him.

As for your second point, there is a quote by Dr. Jordan Peterson that goes: "It's one thing for the government to tell you what you cant say, which many of us disagree with already, but its much worse for the government to tell you what you must say."
This is imo why it is a problem.

>>8779057
Is there evidence hormones are what cause specifically those gendered characteristics that have been linked to transgenderism?

>>8779067
Hey, I'm in Milton Diamond's camp so you don't need to sell me on John Money being a fucker haha. Diamond's own site is part of what convinced me of the intersex view (which he has espoused for many years).

>>8778217
>How's that working out, exactly?
Fine. The only LGBT 'right' Trump infringed on is the right for trannies go die in stupid immoral wars, which no one with a brain would want to do anyway.

>>8779076
There is no doubt that hormones affect specifically these gendered characteristics (and some others) BUT there is no direct evidence that transsexuals were indeed exposed to abnormal levels of hormones prenatally. The evidence for that is circumstantial , which is why this is still a theory. There's evidence that hormones affect these parts in both humans and animals, that the shape of some of these areas is heavily influenced by natal hormones, and of cross-sex behavior as a result of such exposure in animals.

>>8778580
It's a backlash against all the nonsensical claims of him being the "first pro-gay president" that his supporters make. And a lot of his supporters are anti-gay, even if he himself isn't.

>>8779079
Name one pro-LGBT act the Trump administration has done.

File: Trump vets Muslims for LGBT hate and zombies wave gay pride flags for their future murderers.png (401KB, 575x529px) Image search: [Google]

401KB, 575x529px

>>8780251

File: 1503818346161.gif (1019KB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

1019KB, 500x280px

>>8780251
switching to a system not based on identity politics. yw.
git good
salam

>peterson says there's no evidence making up pronouns will help anyone

>"lmao peterson doesn't understand trans science"

what the fuck

>>8783550
Might have something to do with him ranting about standing up for The Truth