Are people who call themselves trans or "identify as"

>>8767180
there's nowhere near as many of them as people make out, and even if the trans community somehow got rid of them, the people who claim to dislike trans people solely because of that sort would go back to hating us 'legit' sorts straight away because their problem isn't actually to do with legitimacy, their problem is with gender non-conformity as a whole- and with any and all trans people existing (because we threaten parts of the foundation their established identity is based on i.e. sexual attraction to somebody female-looking with a dick freaks them out)

ultimately, some of the tumblr types are fucking annoying, but they're not the real problem; I'm reminded of the quote "there are monsters among us, but they are too few to worry about"

>>8767480
those monsters created that canadian law... no society sees all of us as insane you idiot.

>>8767491
>no society sees all of us as insane
only 20 years ago the 90s were chocka with fucking awful portrayals of even passing, socially normalised trans women all being "secretly men in dresses" or being hookers / winding up dead ignominiously

make no mistake, you get rid of the tumblrites, it'll just strip away the facade of respectability and they'll go back to treating the rest of us the same they already did for, like, the entire latter half of the 20th century

>>8767480
Surprisingly well-written post for this board, I agree.

>>8767538
Nice samefagging, Robin.
Next time you'll have to actually write a well-written post, though, for people to pay attention.

>>8767524
i'd rather been seen as "secretly men in dresses" instead of an authoritarian insane person.

>>8767665
I mean
both will get you killed by an angry Trumpster

File: 1479275435251.jpg (384KB, 850x1202px) Image search: [Google]

384KB, 850x1202px

>>8767691

>>8767180
Eddie Izzard is trans and permanently boymode for the sake of his career. He's stated as such in the past. Weird choice of image for a thread about trenders, as he's basically the exact opposite of a trender.

File: izzard.jpg (247KB, 1368x1026px) Image search: [Google]

247KB, 1368x1026px

>>8769540

File: Gender_spectrum_blank_by_prettyfrog-d46km6h_(1).png (317KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

317KB, 900x900px

>>8767180
I think they're perfectly valid, I mean, it isn't like someone being non-binary actually invalidates binary trans people, not only that but there are non-binary people who do feel dysphoria with their birth sex but would also feel dysphoria about transitioning into the opposite birth sex

>>8769665
i think op meant trenders, not enbies

although that doesn't answer >>8769540

>>8769674
Eh, considering a lot of people view enbies as trenders I answered it assuming that's what op meant

>>8769540

wtf, first I'm hearing about this
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/15/watch-eddie-izzard-perfectly-explains-his-gender-while-getting-his-nails-done/
>I am a transgender guy who came out 31 years ago.
>I’ve got boy genetics and girl genetics.
>I identify somewhat boyish and somewhat girlish. I identify both, but I fancy women.

Oh nevermind, just another faggot who can't conceive of being a heterosexual man who likes femininity and fuel the fire of "trannies are sexist and just reduce womanhood to wearing a dress".

ie, exactly the fucking problem

>>8769692
>I am a transgender guy
does he even known what terms mean?

>>8769665
why the fuck are there numbers on the axes

are cismen 6 male?!?!

fucking post modernists man

>>8769692
>ie, exactly the fucking problem
But what is the problem with people like that calling themselves transgender? It's an umbrella term, it doesn't make you any less trans.

>>8769717
Its really not that hard to understand

>>8769732

Because it's fucking retarded to conflate the very specific, misunderstood and extremely rare experience of transsexuals with those of transvestites and all people who don't conform to the most narrow of stereotypes of masculinity and femininity.

Why don't we just call these kinds of people gay? I mean, gay people are also associated with cross-dressing and gender nonconformity. What if we called all homosexuals homos, and all of the former group homomorphic? Then they can ALL just be called homos for short, no need to specify whether you're talking about a giant chunk of the mainstream population or a very small niche of it, what's the worst that could happen?!
Then people can say "why do we even need marriage equality? Most homos like women anyway." And support groups targeted towards homos can get filled to the brim with girls who wear doc martins, screeching that they're every bit as homo as the guy getting threatened with conversion therapy. And people can say "You know you don't HAVE to sleep with men, right? There's nothing wrong with just being a guy who's got a lisp, I think you're taking this a bit too far, you poor people have been brainwashed and need guidance."

Transexuals have a condition that necessitates medical alteration of the body to conform to their neurology.
"Transgender" people are the utter fucking OPPOSITE, who just need people to accept that boys can wear nail polish and shit without it having any impact on their gender identity.
Conflating the former for the latter creates basically the single largest source of confusion as to why transition should be accepted. It's the reason so many people dismiss transition and insist trans women just get comfortable with being girly men, calling them self-mutilators, sexists, fetishists.

Transexuals are NOT in the same category as cross dressers, tomboys and girly men. To use the same word to describe all these people is ABSURD.

>>8769665
>I identify as M3-F4
>you sunk my battleship

>>8767180
>Are people who call themselves trans or "identify as" trans, or even take HRT, despite being cis, a problem for the trans community
I think any time cis women enter a community its a bad thing. All they ever do is try to make the community about them and fuck how anyone else feels. Literally every time in every community cis women fuck it up.

>>8769845

I think what you're saying is that transsexuals are "trutrans" and we're confusing transgenders who don't want to get the full surgery etc with them.

Problem with that is it's not clear where you draw the line. Lots of older transitioning MtFs are pretty dysphoric but don't get SRS.

>>8769986

idgaf if you only get hormones or if you get literally every transition treatment possible. Hell, even if you just try and pass as best you can without any help - there are medical reasons some people can't get medical intervention. Even fucking repressors, idgaf.
These people are all still trans. However they go about it, they still all have the same issue that prompts people to WANT those interventions.

My point is that being a literal man who likes getting his nails done does not make you trans. Being a tomboy does not make you trans.
If you don't have gender dysphoria in any capacity (and no, being a man who likes girly things is not fucking gender dysphoria), there is absolutely no reason to conflate you with people that do. To do so is utterly fucking retarded.
You might as well conflate people who have a scar on their arm with fucking amputees. These people do not have the same needs.

I will not tolerate some idiot who enjoys a little opposite-gender fashion insisting that they're "every bit as trans" as someone who requires lifelong medical treatment to stave off crippling mental/emotional stress.

Shaving your head is not the same as being a cancer victim.

>>8769692
Yeah, not the interview I was thinking of. I didn't save it, so idk if it's even still on the internet.

It's a much older one, where he said basically that he had tried to pass in public and it was total fail. And he looked at himself and realized he would never pass and that transitioning would kill his acting career (which he hadn't really gotten off the ground yet, he was still considered just a comedian), and he knew there were cool male characters he could play well if he stayed boymode, so he gave up on transition in favour of his career.

If he ultimately pulled a Jenner, I wouldn't be 100% surprised. But I also think he's maybe made a kind of peace with boymode, hence that interview you've posted.

>>8769701
He's also the one who said he IDed as a "male lesbian," remember. I think it's coping all the way, but he has always deliberately fucked around like that.

It would be obnoxious from anyone else, but he WAS basically the first public figure to do that.

>>8769845
>>8769986
>transsexual vs transgender
same fucking thing, everyone's level and type of dysphoria is unique

>>8771753
>My point is that being a literal man who likes getting his nails done does not make you trans. Being a tomboy does not make you trans.

The thing is that there is absolutely no way to enforce this.

You all set this up by not keeping any standard. You wanted to push for self definition. And now the consequence is upon you.

A man can literally call himself a woman and be just as trans as a transsexual who's had the full works. And he's going to be who people think of when they think of trans.

Have fun.

>>8771753
This.

I wouldn't care (it's their life to ruin) if the "non-dysphoric" trenders didn't keep taking over trans spaces and screaming all the time trying to make all political activism about them. I mean, trutrans MTFs of color are getting shot in bathrooms, but you really need that X on your driver's liscence to feel better that your NB-ness is acknowledged, right?

They like to play dress-up as the other gender instead of being actually trans and it lowers the legitimacy of actual trans people passing and existing safely in their transitioned state.

File: 8fc44537a52d8682b832cafc2f657077fd08a94647b82b6d60a58dcc7f5dd7b1.png (514KB, 598x660px) Image search: [Google]

514KB, 598x660px

>>8767180
>take HRT, despite being cis
The only problem here is that they're lying to themselves.

>>8774018
Maybe he bought into the meme that male/female mean birth sex and masculine/feminine or man/woman mean gender

>>8776527
>>8776666
'Transgender' has been redefined as an umbrella term to include all people who don't conform to expected gender expression.

When I say a literal man in a dress, I mean a literal man in a dress. I don't mean a non-passing trans woman, or a man who's claiming to be a woman without putting in any effort. I mean a man.

The term transgender now includes people who have literally nothing in common with people who have gender dysphoria. That's the shit I'm talking about.
I'm talking about women who like to keep their hair short, men who manicure their nails, women who never wear skirts, men who shave their bodyhair. Those people, who have absolutely nothing to do with gender dysphoria, technically fall under the 'trans umbrella' whether they claim to or not, and can techically be called "every bit as trans" as someone with a formal diagnosis for gender dysphoria who's on lifelong medical treatment to transition to the opposite sex. THAT is what I'm calling fucking retarded.

This isn't about gatekeeping who's trans enough in the sense of "is your gender dysphoria real/severe/long-term enough, is your transition passable/early/intensive enough?"
This is about "do you have a single thing to do with gender dysphoria?"
Because the word 'trans' has been altered to include people who just have absolutely NOTHING to do with being trans.

It's not that they're lesser, it's not that they're faking, it's that they are utterly unrelated.

You might as well call all gay people trans, because attraction to women is usually a man thing so any woman who does it is 'gender non-conforming', congratulations everybody's trans now, we did it /tttt/
But for some reason we don't go that far, because it's obvious that that'd be pointless and homophobic and sexist. But it's a-okay to bulldoze the trans community with the hoards of people who simply don't conform to the absolute most rigid ideas of masculinity and femininity and insist they're "every bit as trans".

>>8769845
>>8777544
This. People who have no idea what dysphoria is like have no place running around telling anyone that dysphoria is body negativity and gender is how much you like flannel or nail polish. Not only are these shitheads making it vastly harder to access to medical treatment, it's just plain nonsensical and cruel that they're speaking over, and often against, a tiny group that they have nothing to do with.

>>8767480
>>8767524

Tumblr is awful but I don't hate them.

I'm going to stop beating around the bush and straight up say that their screeching and crying has done more for the trans community in 5-7 years than anyone logical and level headed had in 40 years. That is the truth.
Women seem to have this sort of trick where if they whine the loudest and get offended more than other people and silence them with dogpiling and shouting/scaring people into submission, they can win arguments, and I guess I as a FTM, am grateful for it, regardless of all the other ruin they've brought the rest of our society, as selfish as that sounds.

>>8778982
Women are privileged by the special care both men and women have for their issues. Men and women always put women first. That's why they can get away with whining instead of rational argument.

It shouldn't be that way and it does more harm than good that it is and that they exploit it.

>>8778982
>their screeching and crying has done more for the trans community in 5-7 years than anyone logical and level headed had in 40 years
Yeah, more damage. The lies they've fed people will take decades to undo. Ten years ago I could explain my situation to someone and that would be that, whether they accepted it or not, at least their knowledge would be accurate because it came from me. Now I have to first convince them that everything they thought they knew is wrong, which is easier said than done.

I run into so many people now who think all I need is to have my non-existent "identity" and pronouns respected. No need for medical care, no right to feel dysphoria, no need to be differentiated from butch women, no need for privacy. They won't even consider it when I tell them otherwise anymore. Pretty huge fucking problem, especially given that I only even disclose when I have to for medical or legal reasons. It's a fucking nightmare now. I never thought I'd miss how things were back then.

File: gender manifold.jpg (62KB, 570x450px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 570x450px

>>8769665

>>8779107
>Ten years ago I could explain my situation to someone and that would be that, whether they accepted it or not, at least their knowledge would be accurate because it came from me. Now I have to first convince them that everything they thought they knew is wrong, which is easier said than done.
Exactly this.
As you said, it used to be that people could more or less default to trusting your judgement, because they didn't really have anything else to compare it to.
Now that tumblrshit is so ubiquitous that instead of trusting your judgement, your judgement is just called into question by association with these batshit preconceived ideas people now have to compare it to. Instead of you overcoming the weirdness, the weirdness overcomes you.
So they either think the idea is fucked and think you must be fucked by association, or they think the idea is reality and think you're fucked for not conforming to it.