It's not a "preferred pronoun" if I'm forced

>>8765138
>non binary on /lgbt/
wew lad

>>8765138
Who is forcing people to use pronouns? There seems to be this all powerful entity forcing people to use peoples preferred pronouns and yet I have yet to come in contact with it

>>8765146
This "all powerful entity" that you "have yet to come in contact with" is called "THE LAW."


Not using transgender pronouns could get you fined
http://nypost.com/2016/05/19/city-issues-new-guidelines-on-transgender-pronouns/

Canadian gender-neutral pronoun bill is a warning for Americans
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/301661-this-canadian-prof-defied-sjw-on-gender-pronouns-and-has-a

Transgender Pronoun Policing Leads to Government-Mandated Speech
http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/25/transgender-pronoun-policing-leads-to-go

Transgender Teacher Gets $60k After Co-Workers Won’t Call Her ‘They’
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/transgender-teacher-gets-60k-after-co-workers-wont-call-her-they/


You can be fined for not calling people ‘ze’ or ‘hir,’ if that’s the pronoun they demand that you use
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/

Now, you're in contact with it. You're welcome.

>>8765138

The first person to go to jail over not using made up pronouns will become a folk hero.

I don't think transgenders realize how loathed and reviled this authoritarian shit is making them. They all seem to think we hate them for growing tits. WRONG.

WE
DON'T
FUCKING
CARE
WHAT
YOU
DO
TO
YOUR
BODIES

What rubs 99% of people up the wrong way is being forced to play along with it, and seeing little kids being turned into transsexuals.

>>8765146
Additionally, there are consequences nowadays for not holding the "right" opinion about gender. The virtue signaling must be strong and completely flawless and per script. #RiseOfTheSJWs

>>8765262
yup

this needs a distinction from something like workplace conduct though, when you work for a business you agree to follow certain rules in exchange, if a company has a code of conduct and you violate it they have every right to terminate you, but legislating it for the general public is insanity

>>8765262
But you act like using my pronouns is some giant favor like youre going so far out of your way. Its 1 letter. When trans people get mis gendered its like daggers. Im honestly at a point where it doesnt matter anymore because i never get gendered correctly by anyone anyway. But it still hurts

Everything is perfectly free. It goes like this:
>Person requests x
>Host does not cater to person's desire for x
>Person lets everyone know about host's failure to cater
>Public opinion of host reduced
I see no problem with an honest rate and review system.

>>8765486

> But you act like using my pronouns is some giant favor

I don't. I just am not going to do it. It's about not believing. That's all.

> When trans people get mis gendered its like daggers.

Fucking deal with it. You cannot control the way other people see you.

The worst thing is all the propaganda that mixes up all the fucking xirs and zeys with this. Can we just get a fucking "pick exactly one gendered pronoun or 'they' and no other bullshit will be imposed on the cisses" law?

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This is the kinda shit that would get my cis friends selling you cut drugs for an inflated price, and they don't even know I'm trans, they just think people who obsessively go out of their way to be obnoxious cunts deserve to get treated like the anti-social obnoxious cunts they are.

>>8765490
They would consider that "authoritarian" and "censorship" and "an attack on free speech" because they love to twist things to serve their extremist (with connections to recent domestic terrorist attacks) agenda and narrative.

And the absolute worst takes are the "but you were able to use 'they' just fine in your denouncement of the issue" gotchas, refusing to even acknowledge the xze problem.

>>8765186
I like how the special snowflakes completely ignored this post. But, yeah we're totally just making a mountain out of a mole hill here! Not like people's lives can be totally ruined or even sent to jail for misgendering someone. No sirree!

t. tranny who can see that enforced pronoun laws aren't actually meant to protect trans people but a test-run on controlling more peoples' speech

>>8765138
damn OP I haven't seen the pic of that mouthbreather in years
lmao fucking faggots

>>8765692
who is she? she looks cool

>>8765138
You are literally erasing my identity if you don't use my xe/xer pronouns. I don't care if I don't make an effort to pass, you better use my pronouns, or you're a bigot.

>>8765138
Oh but you just know trannies will try their hardest to legislate the rights of anyone who doesn't feel 100% calling someone they feel looks and acts like a man, a woman. It is already illegal to ban men from women's locker rooms and restrooms in a few states and soon it will become a crime punishable by jail to call a man a man.

>>8765753
>>8765752
>>8765666
t. domestic terrorists one trigger word away from driving a car through a group of 15+ people

Just chiming in here, but I've been vegetarian for 8 years and it would really make me sick to eat any meat. I could definitely get a restaurant in trouble if they served me meat when I didn't ask for it.

>>8765767
t. domestic terrorist who brains bystanders with bike locks and lobs low grade explosives into crowds

Antifa scum have a much longer rap sheet when it comes to being literal no-good terrorists. The sooner Trump cracks down on your shit, the better.

>>8765817
>mass murder and spree killings are NOT TERRORISM
>getting into a street fight IS TERRORISM
This is your brain on right wing ethnic nationalism with a support for a privatized war economy.

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>>8765492
So you're just an asshole on purpose.

Call it being "real" all you want it doesnt matter how you slice it you're doing it to be rude.

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>>8765817
Antifa are literally all paid actors to make the left look violent and to sell clicks.

>>8765186
yes this is all quite silly and it's very dangerous road to start policing word choice

how you described it in the OP is exactly correct, it's a preference
if someone INSIST on misgendering me it's not violence, they're just an asshole...it is frightening to think about the extreme of this, law enforcement for how we address others

>>8765509
this is how it should be felt with
people who choose to be anti social assholes will be hurt by others not wanting to deal with them

>>8765511
fuck off honestly
use of the law is the ultimate form of authoritarianism
it's literally holding a gun to someone unless they say what you want them to

sorry you're too stupid to understand this

>>8765138
This is why they should have never been called "preferred pronouns". Cis people don't have "preferred pronouns", they just have pronouns.

>>8765839
Shouldn't you be in school? Middle school isn't out yet on the east coast so I imagine it wouldn't be on the west coast either.
Anti-fascism has existed much longer than any poster on this board has been alive.

>>8765846
Sorry you're too stupid to understand that MURDER is WRONG.

>>8765829
you have a very small, sad view of the world if you think white ethnic nationalism is connected to being against police-enforced allowed words

>>8765857
why are you even in this thread if you don't want to discuss what the OP is about?

>>8765829
What? The alt-right (which I am not a part of) claims 1 dead so far. Aside from that they've mostly played fair. Only meeting fist with fist. A lot are just free speech absolutists and generic nationalists who regrettably started palling around a small group of actually white supremacists.
Antifa clowns have just recently stabbed someone because they had a supposedly Nazi haircut, caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage, assaulted non-combatives with deadly weapons too many times to count, given instruction on how to derail trains by laying concrete on the tracks. More than that, the way they dress and the fact that their mission stated as they put it to violently disrupt "fascism" at it's roots. Of course they're fucking terrorists. I sincerely hope something comes of this White House petition so they can start rounding up you excuses for people.

>right wing ethnic nationalism with a support for a privatized war economy.
Why don't you just call me a Nazi? I know you want to.

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>>8765851
Are you really so naive that you think that movements can't be hijacked and subverted for other purposes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

You should really be in school learning about how the world works instead of revealing your ignorance here.

>>8765915
Yes, Antifa has long since been co-opted, by -
ironically - (((progressive))) neoliberals.

>>8765892
B-b-but it's only bad when someone dies from violence!

So if someone is making the effort to be the other gender, I can make the minimal effort to call you by that gender's pronoun. Even if you are an unpassing hon, if it is clear you want to be called the other genders pronouns, I will do it.

However, I will not call anyone by special pronouns. I will not call a cis girl "he" while she is wearing a dress. I will not call anyone, they/them/their, because non-binary is not a real thing.

>>8765186
Clearly some of these are bullshit that shouldn't happen, but the workplace related ones? Do you not see a problem with people in the workplace intentionally being dicks and damaging the effectiveness of the team?

>>8765892
I don't think the car attack was an attack. You have so many protesters grouped together and you only kill 1. Compare that to the muslim attack in Barcelona that killed 13 and they were not in a group together.

What most likely happened was some antifa assface hit the guys car because the guy was a white male, the guy freaks out thinking he is being attacked and hits the gas, as the mob of antifa come to attack him he drives away. He turned himself into the police for fuck sake.

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>>8765963
liberals don't believe in violence.
they are against the war in afghanistan, for example.
someone else is behind antifa.
it is not liberals.

>>8766037
>he thinks neoliberals are actually liberals or even conservatives for that matter

>>8766037
>Muslims don't believe in violence.
>they are against the war in afghanistan, for example.
>someone else is behind Isis.
>it is not Muslims.

It is blind zealotry that allows these people to commit acts of violence.

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>>8766051
The CIA is behind ISIS.
Everybody knows that.
They want to put an oil pipeline from Iraq through Syria to the Mediterranean sea so they are destabilizing the region.
Educate yourself.

>>8766046
are conservatives against the war?
why did trump send more troops to afghanistan?

They're not my preferred pronouns.

They're my pronouns.

Full stop, period, no adjectives.

And if you don't you don't use a person's pronouns because your own convenience is more important than affording respect to the people around you, then you're an asshole. Feel free to be an asshole at your private events or in your own social circle, but understand it may affect how others view you and the organization you represent if you do it while in public.

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>i need 50 names to define myself
And I thought bisexuals/heteroflexibles were bad

>>8766021
There are already laws protecting them from harassing actions. Harassment via misgendering is much less aggressive than harassing via gender-based salary disparity. But you're going to make additional protections for the first because it's a virtue signaling but not against the other because it's capitalistic. Fuck that, no thanks.

>>8766174
I 100% agree with this
its similar to insisting on calling someone a specific nickname they hate that brings painful memories from their past

the issue is though, and I think this is what OP was trying to get at, that someone should not be forced BY LAW not to address you like that

they should and will suffer social/economic costs by intentionally being an ass, but it should not be enforced through police action

>>8765486
>you act like using my pronouns is some giant favor
It becomes a large favor when demanding certain far-out gender pronouns becomes a mere device to create enemies of allies.

>>8766086
And Israel/Saudi Arabia is behind the CIA what's your point?

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>pronouns are the big fucking civil rights issue for trannies and are trying to pass laws that punish people harshly if they don't comply

This is why no one takes us seriously anymore and why we totally deserve what we get when we're no longer the flavor-of-the-decade minority.

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>>8766262
My point is that liberals are not in cahoots with Muslims to force you to use xis/xir pronouns.
That is just fake binary politics attempting to distract you from reality and make you fight with your neighbor.

>>8765511
>>8765490
>>8765767
>>8765817
>>8765851
>>8765857
>>8765915
>>8766037
>>8766046
>>8766086
>not all muslims are terrorists
>but all transphobic persons are racist, misogynistic, homophobic, classist, ableist bigots.
>and all antifas are wilding, unhinged irrational emotional thought police
>unless you are an antifa or a transphobe, in which case anything that makes antifa or gender criticism look bad are outright shills


>>8765998
all the win


>>8766174
If I get fired for being an asshole, fine. There's no law forcing a company to employ me. A person shouldn't have to go to jail or pay a fine for being an asshole. You have just advocated for definition thought policing.

>>8765138
The term "preferred pronoun" is a creation of ignorant cishet allies. It's not about being "preferred" or not, it's about being correct or not. If someone is a woman (cis, trans, or otherwise), the CORRECT pronoun to use when referring to them is she/her (or they/them which is a fallback suitable for most if not all genders). Referring to a woman as "it" or "him" isn't just a violation of her preferences, it's an incorrect statement, on par with calling a Boeing 747 a "steamship". And you are, of course, free to call a Boeing 747 a steamship if you want to, but if you engage in that behavior, you have to accept the consequences, which will likely range from funny looks to social ostracism.

>>8765262
>WE DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT YOU DO TO YOUR BODIES
You're not fooling anyone after all the talk about "mutilation" and "fix the brain not the body". And "being forced to play along with it" is just part of living in a society, a society which for most of history trans people have been forced to play along with against their own wishes. It's not like this is specific to trans people, misgendering cis people is wrong too. But for some reason lots of cis people seem to think that misgendering trans people is somehow okay, simply because they're trans.

>>8765610
I'm not aware of any case of someone facing legal penalties for refusing to use "zhe" pronouns. The laws are generally applied to "intentional misgendering" - the vast majority of trans people would not regard "they" as misgendering, and for it to be recognized as "intentional misgendering" would require the use of the offending pronoun with such frequency that it can't reasonably be explained away as a mistake.

>>8765862
It's pretty clear that "anti-SJW" sentiment, regardless of what legitimacy such views may have on their own, serves as a recruiting ground for the far-right. This isn't some sort of obscure knowledge either.

>>8766289
Most of the time trans people aren't the ones advocating for these laws. It's straight cis libcucks and tumblr trenders.

>>8766319
>If I get fired for being an asshole, fine. There's no law forcing a company to employ me. A person shouldn't have to go to jail or pay a fine for being an asshole. You have just advocated for definition thought policing.
It depends on how far you go with "being an asshole". There should be a certain threshold, at least theoretically, where it becomes criminal. Otherwise "just being an asshole" ends up being a get out of jail free card.

>>8766323
except "it" is the correct pronoun for something not human, which trannies are.

>>8766323
>It's pretty clear that "anti-SJW" sentiment, regardless of what legitimacy such views may have on their own, serves as a recruiting ground for the far-right.
maybe there is some truth to this, although I think there is a pretty big gap between thinking what they called "political correctness" has gotten ridiculous and thinking non whites are genetically inferior and jews are trying to destroy western civilization


I think it's very important that speech isn't considered the same as violence...just think of the precedent that sets
you're then allowed to use violence against speech, law enforcement can be used against ideas, whoever it in power dictates the culture to frightening degrees

trans people deserve respect but this is not the way to go about it

>>8766323
see >>8765186

>anti-SJW" sentiment, regardless of what legitimacy such views may have on their own, serves as a recruiting ground
>be sure to completely ignore the legitimacy behind the curtain

>>8766398
>trans people deserve respect but this is not the way to go about it

BUT I WANT TO THROW MY WEIGHT AROUND AND LASH OUT AT THE HARSH AND CRUEL WORLD THAT MAKES ME FEEL SO POWERLESS AND IMPOTENT

>>8766332
>There should be a certain threshold,
There already is, and it's called "workplace harassment" and there are laws enforcing it. This merely carves an extra-special type of particularly heinous harassment, a "more important" type of harassment which blacks and gays and women and other oppressed persons don't get. Equality has devolved into making sure everything is unequal.

>>8765186

All of those local laws requiring the use of certain pronouns in US cities are unconstitutional, and your do not have to obey them.

>>8766484
just because they're currently unenforceable doesn't mean it's not worth talking about
its concerning laws like that are supported by some people, let alone that they were actually passed

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>>8765138
Yes this is /lgbt/ not reddit, obviously. We have this thread every damn day. We know, you probably shouldn't be arrested for saying "he", most of the board probably agrees on that.

>>8766484
your sound like a constitutional scholar

>>8766345
How are trannies not human? Do you also think people who wear glasses are non-human?

>>8766398
>although I think there is a pretty big gap between thinking what they called "political correctness" has gotten ridiculous and thinking non whites are genetically inferior and jews are trying to destroy western civilization
Something I've seen a lot is the claim that "political correctness" is part of a campaign by Jews/"cultural marxists"/"globalists" to destroy Western civilization.

>>8766413
"Regardless of" does not mean "be sure to ignore". It just means it's not really relevant to the point being made. The point being that anti-SJW sentiment MAY indeed be legitimate, but that doesn't change the fact that it is used to recruit people to far-right ideologies that do not have legitimacy.

>>8766423
I don't think "harassment" should be limited to something that can only occur in workplaces though. I think it makes sense to have a stricter threshold for harassment in a work environment, but I don't think it should be ruled that private individuals interacting outside of a work environment can never constitute harassment.

>>8766484
That's really for the courts to decide though. If accused of violating a law which you consider to be unconstititional, you MIGHT get the Supreme Court to hear your case, and they MIGHT rule in your favor. That's a lot of ifs though. There's a big difference between Constitutional theory and how the legal system works in practice. Look at the gun control issue for example, a literal, absolute interpretation of the 2A would call it blatantly unconstitutional. But various forms of gun control are accepted as legal by the Federal government. It might seem straightforward to the common man, but lawyers can spend months arguing over what specifically constitutes "infringement".

>>8766506
well as long as most of the lgbt board agrees, then I'm sure the legislators will certainly stand down. I mean, you *are* the hacker known as 4chan

>>8766582
wow you're a fucking idiot

>>8766627
>le ad hom response

2/10 try harder

>>8765848
Wanting to control public perception as a part of your sexuality is always going to be a problem and these people will not stop till mentioning that biomales are male is a jail sentence so they can live above you. They are bitter at being super fem gay men or super masc lesbians and want to take that out on you with controlling, destructive laws.

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>>8765186
>employers and landlords can't discriminate against or outright harass trans employees and tenants by repeatedly and intentionally misgendering and harassing them the same way that they can't to other protected classes
That's all these things tend to be. No, the big bad sjw police aren't going to arrest you for mistakenly misgendering a snowflake, just don't harass people that you have employment or domicile power over and you'll be fine.
Coverage around this stuff tends to be massively overblown, especially involving stuff like C16 and the New York bill

>>8765138
ok to use your food/serving analogy, how is "what are your preferred pronouns?" any different form "what will you be having tonight?"

>>8765492
>instead of saying 'she' instead of 'he' i'm going to intentionally be a dick and cause a big scene about it
>because i literally never humor anyone over anything i myself don't also believe ever

>>8765832

Do you have no idea how controlling you sound when you say this? You're literally trying to mind-control other people.

This shit is what gets you loathed.

>>8766999

Nice trips.

I am not going to fucking humor you. It's a belief system I don't support. It's like asking me to say "PBUH" before "Muhammed".

The right answer is, no, I don't believe in that. I will go to prison before I lie about your sex.

I don't hate trannies, but that is a line in the sand for me. Don't push it.

.>>8766323

> . It's not like this is specific to trans people, misgendering cis people is wrong too

There's no such thing as misgendering. SJW jargon.

I'm correctly sexing you. People are called pronouns based on their biological sex.

>>8766982
You won't be kicked out of the restaurant for asking if the dish in front of you that looks like beef, and the server is calling chicken, is really made out of beef. You will lose your job, be hunted down on social media, and face a lawsuit for "misgendering" people by calling them the aesthetic gender they most appear to be.

>>8766680

> these people will not stop till mentioning that biomales are male is a jail sentence

I'm ready. I'll still do it.

>>8767031
It's not even a fucking belief system. Look, if you accidentally misgendered a butch cis woman and she asked politely for you to use female pronouns, would you throw a shitfit and insist you know better than she does?

>People are called pronouns based on their biological sex
No, people are called pronouns based on social context. Social context is gender, not sex. This is basic.

>I don't hate trannies
>I am not going to fucking humor you
>It's a belief system I don't support
>literally trying to mind-control other people
>I'm correctly sexing you
>I don't hate trannies
kek

>>8767035
Do you think people who change their names are deceiving you about who they really are too? Or women who get married? That's how unhinged you sound

It's common decency, fucking use it. Don't be a dick.

>>8767062

It is a fucking belief system. There's no such thing as misgendering. If I got someone's sex wrong, then I'd be wrong.

> No, people are called pronouns based on social context. Social context is gender, not sex. This is basic.

> shit i made up dot jpg

Pronouns are about sex. You don't even believe the sex-versus-gender shit yourself, or else you'd call tranny males "male women".

>>8767070
No people who change their names are not pretending to be something they are not.

>>8767073
>tranny males
Trans males are ftms anon. You don't get to redefine that.

Trans women are "male women", if you want to be technical. But you'll turn right around and say you're redefining woman, because a woman cannot be male, so what's the fucking point

You don't know the biological sex of everyone you meet. You don't know if someone is intersex, or that they're trans if they pass, for example.

>>8767084
>pretending to be something they are not
Last I checked, most trans women are in fact trans women. That's a valid thing to be. If they were "pretending", I highly doubt they'd do it 24/7. The problem is that people like you fucking hate trans women, so they try to pass as cis, and then you call them out for "pretending", because you fucking hate trans women. You are the problem, mate.

>>8767088


> Trans males are ftms anon. You don't get to redefine that.

Females aren't male dude

> Trans women are "male women", if you want to be technical.

You just upset a lot of MtFs by saying that. They don't like being called male.

> But you'll turn right around and say you're redefining woman, because a woman cannot be male, so what's the fucking point

Correct. How are you going to talk about women now?

> You don't know the biological sex of everyone you meet. You don't know if someone is intersex, or that they're trans if they pass, for example.

Literally so what?

I probably know it 99.9% of the time, and the rest, if someone is going to be deceptive, well, I can't help that. But I am not going to knowingly lie.

>>8767095

> The problem is that people like you fucking hate trans women, so they try to pass as cis

Like that isn't integral to the entire point of it.

Look mate. Pretending to be a woman means you're pretending to be a woman. Most of us don't care that you're doing that. But why can't you just admit it?

>>8765138
ITT:
>i prefer to be a transphobic antisocial asshole cuz nobodys gonna tell me what to do, riiight? ;) *cool sunglass emoji*
>you're taking away my FREEDOM OF SPEECH

>>8767105
Because it kind of defeats the purpose of blending in with society and living our lives? I'm not going to tell every person I meet on the street "hi, I'm trans" or correct them when they use female pronouns, because it's just unnecessary. I bet if I did, you'd complain about shoving my identity down everyone's throats.

This isn't hard, don't be a brainlet

>>8767116

> I'm going to force everyone else to pretend to live in my autistic fantasyland where I'm a convincing woman
> And they're the antisocial ones if they don't go along with it

>>8767126

> Because it kind of defeats the purpose of blending in with society and living our lives

Another reason T belongs nowhere near LGB: their ideal world has no idea they're trans.

>I'm not going to tell every person I meet on the street "hi, I'm trans" or correct them when they use female pronouns, because it's just unnecessary.

Is there something wrong with you? Something else, I mean.

I don't give a shit what you do with your life. If you want to pretend to be something you aren't, okay, there's no law against it.

I am not knowingly going to go along with it, that's all. Forcing me to lie is abhorrent.

>>8767141
What? Most lgb people don't want to be obnoxious about it either...

>>8767128
firstly, stop denying the existence and legitimacy of trans people, it's just basic science.

secondly, don't require all trans people to be passable to be treated with dignity. passing is not achievable for everyone, yet everyone should feel like a human (if you don't think so, you are antisocial)

thirdly, don't mistake being DECENT and KIND with freedom of speech. just like you won't call black person a "nigger" or just randomly call someone a "cunt", you should also acknowledge that misgendering is also a form of verbal violence. by doing it, you completely invalidate someone's experiences and identity, bring up their insecurities and their often painful past. if you feel doing that can be justified you certainly are antisocial.

also… why don't you just admit you're transphobic? if you desire to be a dick to trans people so much that you're making a basic politeness thing a political issue, it's a good sign that you just hate trans people.

>>8767199
>everyone should feel like a human
Not trannies. They knowingly undermine the social fabric by deluding people into thinking they are what they are not and should be appropriately ostracized.

>verbal violence
Speech is not violence lmao. If you accept that it can be prosecuted as violence, you open the door to censorship of anything the state considers violent.

>>8767199
>firstly, stop denying the existence and legitimacy of trans people, it's just basic science.

It's not legitimate or science. It's literally just men pretending to be women, or the other way around.


But you know what, even if it was, I would still have the right to have my own opinion. Say the science was somehow on your side. I still have a right to use my own language in accordance with my beliefs.

Calling a male person male is not the same as calling a black person a nigger.

> also… why don't you just admit you're transphobic?i

Transphobia isn't a real word.

I don't hate trannies, I just want them to stop forcing their beliefs down my throat. No legitimate rights movement has ever demanded this shit in history before.

You're making this a political issue by insisting on it. Why can't you let me live my life and use the words I prefer to use which are consistent with my beliefs?

>>8767199
>by doing it, you completely invalidate someone's experiences and identity, bring up their insecurities and their often painful past. if you feel doing that can be justified you certainly are antisocial.

I don't give a shit about your experiences or identity. If using accurate language hurts your fee fees, too bad.

I don't care if you kill yourself as a result of me calling you a man. That simply is not my problem.

Part of being an adult is taking charge of your own emotional shit.

All you're doing is reinforcing everyone's idea that you people are loony tunes, and I don't personally believe that. I think you're obnoxious cultists, but I don't actually think trannies are insane.

>>8767221
>>8767227
>>8767235
>>>/pol/

>>8767227
>It's literally just men pretending to be women, or the other way around.
You don't even seem to have spend any time or thought on defining what "man" and "woman" really mean. If you choose to define them as "penis/vagina owner", you do have the right to do so, because it's just a definition. However, if you choose this very definition, you're ignoring the experiences of trans people and legitimate SCIENTIFICAL and MEDICAL papers.

even if you choose to deny those fields of human knowledge, you still just shouldn't be so much of a dick. you may not like someone, sure, but why do you desire to make people feel bad?! even if you think being trans is a mental illness, it still doesn't justify being an asshole… would you approach someone with schisophrenia and say they're a "fucking retard that should die?"
it's not about opinions, it's about being a good person.

>Transphobia isn't a real word.
>god made black people inferior, so racism isn't even a real word
Literally the same argument

>You're making this a political issue by insisting on it. Why can't you let me live my life and use the words I prefer to use which are consistent with my beliefs?
Okay, sure, be a dick. It's not illegal. But don't expect people to be nice to you if you can't behave like a decent human being.

>Speech is not violence lmao. If you accept that it can be prosecuted as violence, you open the door to censorship of anything the state considers violent.
>Approaching random people and calling them cunts is not violence lmao. Everyone should have the society's approval to be a dick and insult people as they want
Note that no one even says being mean should be censored by law or anything. It's just a cultural obligation to behave appropriately and not make others feel bad without a reason

>>8767221
>people i don't like are literally subhuman
a shining example of humanity

>>8767199
>yet everyone should feel like a human
If your identity is so challenged by a few strangers not seeing you as what you see yourself as you deserve to be persecuted.
>don't require all trans people to be passable
if you don't think you have what it takes to pass you shouldn't bother transitioning to begin with. At least make sure you have a good foundation. Don't inflict your ugly hon self upon the rest of us.
>completely invalidate someone's experiences and identity
>or just randomly call someone a "cunt"
I bet you'd get on great with Aussies.
>verbal violence
Stop.
>you completely invalidate someone's experiences
This hysterical nonsense about someone misgendering you invalidating your existence just goes to show weak, fragile and vacuous their identity is to begin with. Not something that should be enabled.

Stop having wrong opinions, ya dumb feminist.

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1MB, 2957x2153px

>>8767227
>stop forcing their beliefs down my throat.

What would Freud say?
Nobody is trying to force anything down your throat.
Asking for respect is not rape.

>>8767235
>I don't give a shit about your experiences or identity. If using accurate language hurts your fee fees, too bad.
Well, UMMMM. You are antisocial by every possible definition. Or just edgy hopefully.

>fee fees
>Hey dumb nigger, haha, kill yourself. Why are you so black? Ahh, right, they haven't yet invented soap in Africa lmao. I'm white, my ancestors founded this country, so you should just stay quiet and do what I say lol. I don't care about your fee fees hehe, you subhuman.

>>8767269

> you're ignoring the experiences of trans people and legitimate SCIENTIFICAL and MEDICAL papers.

I don't care about trans people and nothing's redefined sex. Woman = female human.

> even if you choose to deny those fields of human knowledge, you still just shouldn't be so much of a dick.

I'm going to use accurate language. It's not my problem how you interpret it. Calling you male is not an insult. It's reality. You'd be better off accepting it yourself, probably.

> But don't expect people to be nice to you if you can't behave like a decent human being.

How is thought policing other people like you are and giving them guilt for being logical and understanding science, being a human being?

The problem is trannies are trying to change the law to punish me if I don't play along with their autistic fantasies of being anime lesbians.

>>8767275

Calling a male a female isn't respect, it's a lie.

Freud was a fraud.

>>8767281

> racism is exactly the same as understanding biology

>>8767271
>if you don't think you have what it takes to pass you shouldn't bother transitioning to begin with. At least make sure you have a good foundation. Don't inflict your ugly hon self upon the rest of us.
So only attractive people should be allowed to be treated with dignity?

>This hysterical nonsense about someone misgendering you invalidating your existence just goes to show weak, fragile and vacuous their identity is to begin with. Not something that should be enabled.
Not everyone has to be strong emotionally. Also I'd guess there are certain words that would hurt you as well.

>>8767031
>There's no such thing as misgendering. SJW jargon.
>I'm correctly sexing you. People are called pronouns based on their biological sex.
Please define "biological sex" and explain what methods you use to determine an individual's "biological sex".

>>8767073
"pronouns are about sex" is a belief system as well, you know. One which many of us do not subscribe to, or even consider logical.

>>8767128
It's antisocial to make such a huge deal about someone's pronouns and turn every encounter with transpeople into a debate about the legitimacy of their identity.

>>8767221
>Speech is not violence lmao.
It's a matter of degree. Speech is an action like any other, taken to a sufficient extreme it can constitute an act of violence. Your mistake is in identifying speech with the mere EXPRESSION of ideas, disregarding the methods actually used to express those ideas.

>>8767227
>I would still have the right to have my own opinion
>I still have a right to use my own language in accordance with my beliefs.
You however do not have the right to engage in harassment, or to avoid the consequences of the use of your language.

>You're making this a political issue by insisting on it. Why can't you let me live my life and use the words I prefer to use which are consistent with my beliefs?
Because by intentionally misgendering people, you are stating that their gender identities are illegitimate. It's the same idea as saying "non-whites are not real Americans". People have a right to say it, and express that view, but it's not a neutral statement.

>>8767291
It isn't a lie if their brain is female and doesn't match their male body.
You have a lot to learn and really you shouldn't be judging others unless you are perfect.

>>8767291
>>8767284
You clearly don't understand biology if you confuse it with psychology and sociology. Gender IS NOT a biological category. Biology DOES NOT define what "male" and "female" mean. Biology only describes how human bodies work, that's all. However, some fields of biology, like neurology for example, do indicate that trans people's accounts are legitimate.

reminder that actual transsexuals did not make this a law. The sjw queers took over the word trans and now people associate transsexualism with these fucks who used us for thier political agenda. Please stop associating us with crazy that's all we want.

>>8767291
Also even if you think being trans is a mental illness, just as I mentioned before, you wouldn't insult someone with schizophrenia, right? There are absolutely no reasons in any circumstances that would justify verbally attacking anyone.

>>8767313
>believing (((science))) is infallible

>>8767306
>Please define "biological sex" and explain what methods you use to determine an individual's "biological sex".

How out of touch with reality do you have to be to put air quotes around biological sex. What sex was the person who gave birth to you?

> "pronouns are about sex" is a belief system as well, you know

No, they're a definition.

> It's antisocial to make such a huge deal about someone's pronouns and turn every encounter with transpeople into a debate about the legitimacy of their identity.

They're making the huge deal. I'm simply not moving my position. Men, that is, males, are called he, women are called she.

> You however do not have the right to engage in harassment, or to avoid the consequences of the use of your language.

Who gets to define harassment? Oh right.

I'm prepared to go to jail over this, so I'm fully aware of the totalitarian consequences that Stalinists like you want to inflict on people like me. The only thing I'm guilty of is wanting to live in a world that makes sense and where the fact of biological sex isn't just shit that people make up for fun.

> Because by intentionally misgendering people, you are stating that their gender identities are illegitimate.

They are illegitimate. Transgender doesn't make any sense.

You're exactly like a fanatical Muslim insisting

> By not saying "PBUH", you're saying Islam isn't legitimate.

Sad thing is you can't see it.

>>8767284
A large part of social norms is that certain statement can be regarded as inappropriate, even if truthful. If you really think someone's biological sex is something that needs to be said, go ahead and say it, but only in an appropriate context. To bring it up whenever talking to someone about some arbitrary topic, is like insisting on explaining the digestive system in detail whenever someone mentions food.

>>8767331

Calling a man a man is not attacking anyone.

>>8767313

> Biology DOES NOT define what "male" and "female" mean.

What's it like being so far around the bend you make Flat Earthers look reasonable

>>8767332
Science regularily changes or modifies its opinions as new researches are made. But it's not a reason to disbelieve what it's curently saying. You have to see the world in accordance to what is currently known, because that's the best knowledge available.

>>8767291
You are talking to my mind not my penis.

>>8767346

Pronouns refer to your biological sex. That's just how they work, and I'm not going to change that because trannies don't like it.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up dying in a SJW prison camp at this rate, but I'm still not going to lie.

>>8767352
Biology does not define what "male" and "female" mean because biology is NOT ABOUT FUCKING WORDS. Biology is a science which descibes how processes occur.
>people with penises usually also have testicles that produce sperm
It's biology
>people with penises are all men
It's a matter of a definition; the appropriate field which would compare and analyse the arguments for and against is SOCIOLOgy

Lol, look at these squabbling faggots.

>>8767359

Your mind doesn't have a sex. Your body does.

>>8767360
>SJW prison camp
And who's now victimising themselves, hah?

>>8767332
Science is NOT infallible. But you cannot disprove science with "common sense" or "feelings". If you think science is wrong, you can only challenge it with stronger science.

>>8767338
>What sex was the person who gave birth to you?
It can't be answered without knowing what you mean by "sex".

>No, they're a definition.
Yet other people subscribe to a different definition. How can you be sure that your definition is objectively right and theirs is not?

>They're making the huge deal. I'm simply not moving my position. Men, that is, males, are called he, women are called she
Trans women are not men, no matter how strongly you believe they are.

>>8767338
>wanting to live in a world that makes sense
You don't have the right to force the world to conform to your whims just so it "makes sense" to you.

>where the fact of biological sex isn't just shit that people make up for fun.
Other people's biological sex is none of your business.

>Transgender doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense TO YOU. But your opinions don't decide reality. Some people believe that non-whites being human doesn't make any sense, does that give them a right to treat them as subhumans?

>>8767373
My mind has a gender.

>>8767370
>Biology does not define what "male" and "female" mean because biology is NOT ABOUT FUCKING WORDS. Biology is a science which descibes how processes occur.

> biology is NOT ABOUT FUCKING WORDS.

What the fuck? Yes it is. Words define things. Male and female are biological concepts.

Sociology does not have the epistemological ability to challenge biology about biological definitions.

Aren't you embarassed to spew such nonsense?

>>8767385
>word define things
…umm, not the other way around?

>>8767360
>Pronouns refer to your biological sex. That's just how they work,
That's how you CONSIDER them to work. Not everyone agrees. And intentionally referring to someone with language that they specifically requested you to not use is not a neutral act.

>>8767373
Even if true, that would be an argument AGAINST sex-specific language.

>>8767395
"Can I get a pound of roast beef (points to roast beef)?"

"Xir, that is chicken!"

"But it is clearly beef!"

"How do you know that? Have you tested it genetically? You must leave xir you are hurting its feelings".

>>8767382

Prove it

>>8767377

> It doesn't make any sense TO YOU. But your opinions don't decide reality.

It objectively does not make any sense to claim a male can be female.

> Other people's biological sex is none of your business.

If you can conceal it, good for you. I'm simply not going to lie.

> You don't have the right to force the world to conform to your whims just so it "makes sense" to you.

I do have a right to use language and concepts which are consistent.

> Trans women are not men, no matter how strongly you believe they are.

Trans women are not women, no matter how strongly they believe they are.

> How can you be sure that your definition is objectively right and theirs is not?

That isn't how definitions work. We come up with words because they're useful. What you're trying to do is destroy the definition of male and female. All I can say is good luck with that.

>>8767413
Prove it doesn't.

>>8767395
>And intentionally referring to someone with language that they specifically requested you to not use is not a neutral act.

If you don't use language that respects Muhammed, you're Islamophobic!

> Even if true, that would be an argument AGAINST sex-specific language.

It's not an argument for or against. There are languages that don't have sex specific pronouns. Trannies are still obnoxious in all of them though. You people just want to impose your thought policing on others and pronouns are just a vehicle for it. I'm not giving a millimeter.

>>8767409
That is a pretty dumb analogy.
2/10 Try again

>>8767424

> You can't prove God doesn't exist, so I win

>>8767413
>you're trying to destroy the definition of male and female

No, we're trying to find accurate words to define ourselves

>>8767409
Are you implying that dead animals have feelings and have the means to communicate those feelings to living humans?

>>8767413
>It objectively does not make any sense to claim a male can be female.
Good thing nobody's claiming that then.

>If you can conceal it, good for you. I'm simply not going to lie.
Or you could just not mention it. Suppose you've known someone for years, believing them to be a cisgender man, and treating them as such. But one day you somehow find out that they have XX chromosomes and a vagina. Would you insist on calling and treating them as a woman from that point on?

>Trans women are not women, no matter how strongly they believe they are.
That's not for you to decide.

>That isn't how definitions work. We come up with words because they're useful. What you're trying to do is destroy the definition of male and female. All I can say is good luck with that.
Not everyone finds the definitions equally useful. In fact, many have realized that obsessing over the notion of "biological sex" is not useful in many cases, which is why they have decided to stop doing so.

>>8765138
I think that its peoples right to say what ever they want, I don't think its in there interest to deadname or misgender a transman or transwoman if they want them to like them, I think its a dickish, cruel thing to do to someone, especially someone with a mental disorder who goes though a lot of effort to look and feel male/female, taking hormones, voice training, surgery, and more to try and look and feel like a man/woman

I think that calling someone a cunt is a dickish, cruel thing to do, I don't think it should be illegal to do so, and I don't think its in the interest of other trans people to introduce laws that limit the freedoms of others

I don't care much for arguing with /pol/fags so I just thought I would say my part and leave

also sex and gender are two different things desu

>>8767427
>If you don't use language that respects Muhammed, you're Islamophobic!
Or you could just not talk about Muhammed, if you know it's a sensitive subject among the people you're around.

>I'm not giving a millimeter.
Then why should you expect them to make any compromises towards your position? Your refusal to compromise is the reason WHY they feel a need to push so hard for these laws.

>>8767435

You've based your entire sense of identity on a lie. No satisfactory words are possible when you're really trying to get other people to stop thinking. The only solution you've got is to try to stop everyone else to think about the concepts of male and female.

The world you want would make "1984" look like a vacation, but hopefully, there will be some kind of uprising against your anti-human garbage before then.

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954KB, 352x200px

>>8767450
>The world you want would make "1984" look like a vacation

LMAO
You don't know me or what type of world I want.

>>8767450
>You've based your entire sense of identity on a lie.
Do you think they have never considered accepting your definitions of sex? Most trans people have at some point. But it didn't work for them, so they began to search for other ways to understand themselves and the world around them.

>>8767447
>Then why should you expect them to make any compromises towards your position? Your refusal to compromise is the reason WHY they feel a need to push so hard for these laws.

> there should be a compromise between my free speech and your desire to kill my free speech

wew

>>8767440

> Suppose you've known someone for years, believing them to be a cisgender man, and treating them as such. But one day you somehow find out that they have XX chromosomes and a vagina. Would you insist on calling and treating them as a woman from that point on?

Yes. I don't treat men and women differently, but she's a she.

> That's not for you to decide.

It literally is. I choose the words I use.

> In fact, many have realized that obsessing over the notion of "biological sex" is not useful

Except it's fundamental to all animal and human life and destroying the concept of male and female will probably be bad for civilization

>>8767472

There are plenty of trannies who do accept the reality of biological sex. Just the SJWs and activists find it easier to attack science than confront realities about why they are trannies.

>>8767450
I think that man and woman are different from male and female

as long as your not denying biological reality I don't see what a male calling herself a woman does to harm a society

I don't think of being trans as a lie, the people close to me know I'm biologically male

calling a male a she =/= an ultra authoritarian dystopian future

I'm >>8767445 and when I said I wouldn't argue with /pol/fags I was lieing though my fucking teeth

>>8767484
>as long as your not denying biological reality I don't see what a male calling herself a woman does to harm a society

Sure fucks up the ability to have women's rights, healthcare and private spaces.

What do you call a female human?

> calling a male a she =/= an ultra authoritarian dystopian future

Destroying the concept of sex = that future

Why use special pronouns if "he" or "she" is what defines either what you were or what you transitioned to?

>>8767474
>there should be a compromise between my free speech and your desire to kill my free speech
That's not how free speech works. It's attitudes like this that have forced trans people to take the misgendering issue into the legal sphere. It shouldn't even be an issue of legal rights, it should be about the social obligation to be a decent person. Which does entail respecting other's wishes about what they desire to be called, at least up to a point. You don't have to follow it 100%; it's not unreasonable to refuse to call someone "zyr" or "Emperor Napoleon", but it is unreasonable to turn forcing pronouns onto people into this kind of personal crusade, and to outright refuse to call people by the pronouns which they request to be called.

>It literally is. I choose the words I use.
That doesn't mean those words have any legitimacy though. Anyone can say literally anything, but it's just words, it has no bearing on what actually IS.

>Except it's fundamental to all animal and human life and destroying the concept of male and female will probably be bad for civilization
You know, it's incredibly obvious that you dropped off the "in many cases" part of my comment. Nobody's saying we should completely abandon sexual biology, just that it shouldn't be forced into areas where it isn't actually relevant.

>>8767483
There are very few trannies who are okay with being intentionally misgendered.

>>8767514

>Sure fucks up the ability to have women's rights, healthcare and private spaces.

define female spaces, bathrooms? changing rooms? showers?

health care would stay the same, you would be ether treating a male with male problems or a female with female problems

a female, a woman in 99% of situations

>Destroying the concept of sex = that future

It wouldn't destroy the concept of sex

Your worrying your head about a very smol part of the populous

>>8767554
If u intentionally misgendered me... Im okay with that @_@
idk about other people though

>>8767514
>Sure fucks up the ability to have women's rights, healthcare and private spaces.
The only one it really detracts from is "private spaces".

>What do you call a female human?
A female human.

>Destroying the concept of sex = that future
For one, we're not talking about "destroying the concept of sex", but rather eliminating sex as a universal class, making it something that's only considered when it actually IS relevant. And sex as a universal class is the very thing that has allowed societies to make women second-class citizens.

>>8767545
Most trans people are fine with "he" or "she" in accordance with their identified gender, but some cis people insist on calling people with the pronouns of their "biological sex" rather than their identified gender. And some trans people do identify as neither male or female, but "he" "she" and "they" should be sufficient to cover all of them.

>>8766323
>anti authoritarian sentiment is a gateway to far right authoritarianism
wew lad

>>8767575
>allowed societies to make women second-class citizens.
If you consider women second class that puts some men in first class and the rest as third class citizens.

>>8767554

> It's attitudes like this that have forced trans people to take the misgendering issue into the legal sphere.

Oh right, because trannies aren't forcing their beliefs onto other people in every other sphere, telling lesbians they're bigots if they don't date them, etc.

Nobody's forced you to do anything. You're just authoritarian assholes who can't live with those who disagree, but respect your right to live as you want.

>and to outright refuse to call people by the pronouns which they request to be called.

You don't get to make that request. It's Orwellian to claim you get to control my thoughts.

If you keep pushing this, just remember you're less than 1% of the population. We've done much worse to more people for being considerably less obnoxious than trannies are.

> Nobody's saying we should completely abandon sexual biology, just that it shouldn't be forced into areas where it isn't actually relevant.


Except that's where this clearly is leading.

>>8767562

> define female spaces, bathrooms? changing rooms? showers?

See, that's the whole point. Women cannot have male free spaces.

Is abortion a women's right? Not anymore.

> It wouldn't destroy the concept of sex

If you can't define a woman, that's what you've done.

>>8767623
Who else is behind it?
Are you arguing that /pol/ isn't anti-SJW?
Are you saying that /pol/ is libertarian and not authoritarian?
Because the facts speak otherwise.

>>8767677

>See, that's the whole point. Women cannot have male free spaces

When I said that I was assessing what the bounderies your head were for where transwomen can and cant go

bathrooms have cubicles, most showers are cubicles (mens showers I haven't been In a womans shower because Ive just started transitioning and I'm pre-op so I would rather avoid that entirely) most changing rooms have cubicles

you would never notice, you've probably sat next to a tranny in a bathroom before

>Is abortion a women's right? Not anymore.

When was it and what did the evil tranny cabal do to end that?

I'm pro abortion, I think if your not your bringing an unwanted child into this world, and forcing someone to give birth


>If you can't define a woman, that's what you've done.

you can define a female

I can see that you don't care about ftms though and thats very telling

>>8767623
It's not simply about being for or against authority. Many people will gladly accept authority that agrees with them as a way to oppose authority that they disagree with.

>>8767677
>You don't get to make that request. It's Orwellian to claim you get to control my thoughts.
Nobody's asking to "control your thoughts", just that you at least attempt to be a decent person.

>If you keep pushing this, just remember you're less than 1% of the population. We've done much worse to more people for being considerably less obnoxious than trannies are.
So in response to being asked to be a decent person, you resort to threats of violence? Yeah, it's not the trans people that are the problem here.

>>8767303
>So only attractive people should be allowed to be treated with dignity?
Yes.
>Also I'd guess there are certain words that would hurt you as well.
If there are I would never even imagine wanting others to stop using them.

>>8767799
>most changing rooms have cubicles
I've been places where the men's changing rooms have no or very few cubicles and all/mostly open space and the women's reportedly had just cubicles.

>>8768458
Okay, so I'm going to proudly use the words that insult you. Because expecting people to be fucking nice and peaceful is censorship, right?

>Only attractive people should be allowed to be treated with dignity, yes
Lol, I think it's the time to rethink your moral values

Sorry, but you seem ridiculous. Arguments you make gradually become worse and worse and bring more and more stupid logical consequences you seem to be oblivious to.

>>8768561
>Okay, so I'm going to proudly use the words that insult you
Go ahead. I wouldn't want to censor you.
>Sorry, but you seem ridiculous.
I can't take this seriously, coming from a member of the cult of feminism.

>>8767879
>Nobody's asking to "control your thoughts", just that you at least attempt to be a decent person.

You can't' frame thought control as being a decent person. This is forcing people to go along with a religion. We have the right to say we prefer not to. I'm not going to use your tranny words or pretend you're a woman. You don't get to expect that of anyone.

> So in response to being asked to be a decent person, you resort to threats of violence?

I'm not violent to anyone. But if you keep pushing the whole population, something is going to eventually snap. They will eventually decide to elect someone who'll just make the tranny problem go away.

>>8765186
>links articles and not actual laws
Everytime the news pretends that some anti-discrimination laws mean you're going to be gulaged if you call someone the wrong pronoun
And everytime it turns out it's not that at all and their just money whores looking for clicks

>>8769550
>You can't' frame thought control as being a decent person. This is forcing people to go along with a religion. We have the right to say we prefer not to. I'm not going to use your tranny words or pretend you're a woman. You don't get to expect that of anyone.
This isn't thought control, it's social expectations. You're free to think and say whatever you want, but don't whine when society excludes you. With your current attitude, you are marking yourself as an entity of negative net value to society, so you have no right to expect society to offer anything to you.

>something is going to eventually snap
And when they do, they deserve to be harshly punished and made an example of. Harming and oppressing those who are "different" does not become morally right just because enough people support it.

>They will eventually decide to elect someone who'll just make the tranny problem go away.
Some kind of "final solution" you mean? Yeah, that worked out so well last time. Trans people may be a minority, but free speech fanatics like you are a minority too. Sure, there are lots of people who think free speech is a good idea, but very few of those will go along with the idea that people deserve to be murdered for asking others to be polite.

>>8771382
thank you for saying that ^^ your arguments are way better organised than mine. but idk if there's a point in discussing with such people >_<