>LGBT will defend this https://youtube.com/watch?v=xleCG

>>8732964
All the ideology and slavery vs states rights literally doesn't even matter - Confederacy lost the war. Therefore they have no right, as losers, to complain after an unconditional surrender.

You don't see any Nazi statues in Germany, do you?

>>8732978
So when BLM and leftards lose the impending civil war, you'll support the idea to ruin Luther King statues?

>>8732964
It's really funny to tear down the statues of losers and traitors though.

>>8733020
The left wing has already won. Liberalism, neoconservatism, and far-right reaction are slowly dying and the most popular politicians in the West (Corbyn, Melenchon, Sanders, etc.) are leftists. Your petty dream of ancap (aka neo-feudalism) will never come true.

Workers of the world, unite!

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>>8733036
>It's really funny to tear down the statues of losers and traitors though.
U mean people trying to decentralize authority by fighting for state rights. If they had won they would just have abolished slavery later and we'd have a freer society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9MnGqG9vI

>>8733036
>The left wing has already won. Liberalism, neoconservatism, and far-right reaction are slowly dying and the most popular politicians in the West (Corbyn, Melenchon, Sanders, etc.) are leftists
Until the US and Europe turn into Mexico and Brazil. When this happens, no more welfare and healthcare for you, niggas

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>>8733036
>The left wing has already won. Liberalism, neoconservatism, and far-right reaction
Yeah but there is an authoritarian cancer growing inside these movements and it only causes people to resent liberalism and be super autist edgy 14 year old /pol tards and central authority is especially vulnerable to corruption.

Funny cause ur guy's bias blinds you to this.

Example:
>reeee south carolina is mean to tranny toilets shits
>obama declares 3 bathrooms for allllllll
>next election
>TRUMPPPOOOOOo
>no military trannies heh heh heh

central authority is weak and decentralised authority hedges against a single fault and having diverse governmnets between states means that if you get stuck in a shitty state you can always move but there is no running from trumppoo

Borderline ISIS tier trying to erase history.

There's historic significance to these statues, we simply live in a civiliation that places a lot of importance in keeping our cultural heritage alive, and even if they were of bad people then simply adding a plaque stating who they were and what they did wrong would be an excellent way to educate people on national history, and as a lesson for the future. And that all for free.

>>8732964
Anti-leftists: "If leftism could be defeated in debate, I assure you that it would never have happened, neither in Russia, nor in America, nor anywhere else."

Leftists: "Only one thing could have stopped our movement - if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement."

Cuckservatives: No need for violence, just write a really witty editorial about it :)

>>8733047
>we'd have a freer society.
Well no... We'd have two separate countries. Not sure you understand what secession was.

>>8733047
>if they had won they would have just abolished slavery later
You're telling me they would've forced a federal law over the right of the states? Hmmmmm

>>8733020
>impending civil war

aha, sure. But, yes, if you win an unconditional surrender you can destroy all the MLK statues you want. Just do realize that would require genociding something like 60% of USA's population.

>>8733084
Commerce clause.

>>8733105
>implying Mexicans and Adians care about he slavery
Meh, it's only blacks and white leftcucks

>>8733145
Commerce clause didn't start to be abused until the New Deal era. People were still rigid on Marshall's interpretation throughout the civil war.

>>8733166
>abused
But anon it's only used as the Constitution says, as applied by the best judges in the land. Who are you to say your interpretation trumps theirs?

>>8733145
Not likely but there's a good chance they would have passed an amendment eventually.

But it's not like the South gave a shit about states' rights, or we wouldn't have had the fugitive slave act or Dred Scott. It's just not a real principle, it's something you pick out of convenience when you like the policy your state wants or dislike the federal one.

>>8733195
>fugitive slave act
Fugitive Slave Clause.

>Dred Scott
Fugitive Slave Clause, commerce clause legitimately, and a territory not state issue.

>>8732964
Ancaps are fags. You people are even objectively wrong in the name. Fuck off.

>>8733294
t. triggered statist

conservatives often express the view that there should be more competition - no prizes for losers. Why then do the feel confederate statues need to be kept up?

>>8733057
Not an argument, Mexico and Brazil started out underdeveloped while the united states, Britain, ECT are not. Youre holding socialism to a higher standard because you don't want it to be true but socialist countries actually tend to do well, the issue is corruption and nepotism.

>>8733073
Its not erasing history in its entirety, shit belongs in a museum, similarly to how we treat Nazi shit. If we don't remove these statues from streets and don't publicly educate people as to why they shouldn't support the confederacy, the us will never move on and always have this divide.

>>8732964
Go back in the closet, then, fag.

>>8733047
>U mean people trying to decentralize authority by fighting for state rights
That's revisionist bullshit. Throughout the entire 19th century southern states and southern Democrats wanted to legalize slavery in the entire United States and wanted to protect and extend their rights as slave owners throughout the entire United States.

The whole "they were just fighting for states rights guys!" came over a 100 years later as an attempt at whitewashing history.

>>8733036
>Workers
lol
leftwingers are bored wealthy kids most of whom never worked beyond part-time shitjobs on summer break from college where they got marxist indoctrination

>>8734115
fags have to be in the closet or face prosecution under commie and islamic regimes

>>8732964
lmao, your mass produced statue from 1924 got knocked over ;____;

>>8734319
So are capitalists, so are most other people, your point? If you're poor and advocate socialism then its because you're greedy, if you have money its because you're just naive, do you see the contradiction here? That no matter what if they disagree with capitalism then you get to dismiss them, aka no intellectual honesty

>>8734333
Not specifically because they're that (well except maybe the Islamic ones) its because they were poor and backwards before socialism and just continue it

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>actually kicking a statue
>caring about a statue of some dead redneck in the first place
What, are they fucking pants-on-head retarded?

>>8733036
>The left wing has already won. Liberalism, neoconservatism, and far-right reaction are slowly dying
You're an idiot. The left is in trouble. The right is growing much faster than the left, and the left has been continually losing ground for years now.

The left lost over and over with the failure of every commie regime. You're only in control to the degree that you are now by maintaining a death grasp on the MSM and academia...and you're losing the first of those.

The left is doomed.

>>8734091
>socialist countries
You mean white countries.

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>>8734611
>4chan is le battleground for le mind

*cringe*

>>8734611
First, trump isn't doing the right any favors. The current presidency is like smelling mold and seeing cockroaches but having no idea what its from, the trump gets elected and everyone sees that its because there's a bunch of pizza festering under the sofa (current stage we're in), next comes the clean up crew. Second, what about socialist countries being held to a higher, unreasonable standard relates to them being white countries?

>>8732964
I think it's funny, desu. Robert E Lee was actually against slavery. He just joined the Confederates because the Union ordered him to attack his home state when he was fighting for them.

>>8732964
>starting to think
You came to this realization a bit late mate.

>>8734091
The US, Britain and France started undeveloped as well, Europe was a literally barbarian place worse than the Middle East. But due to competition, free market and liberalism, Europe became the best thing that happened to the humankind.
When the majority of the European population is useless talentless scum (Arabs, niggers, Asians), the number of people who are able to pay for your socialism will be insufficient, so the society will be split up into two classes like in Mexico: rich priviliged whites and niggers living like animals, in squalor and poverty. We see this in Latin America.

>>8733036
>most popular politicians
Here's something you're missing, politics is just another way of saying "power", those politicians, the left, haven't won because leftism is a self defeating ideology, look at how it worked on south africa, brazil and venezuela, this is your future if the left remains in power for long enough. So yes the center and the right might lose, but nobody besides the elite kikes will win anything with this.

>>8732964
stop assigning political ideologies to us

I think historical statues should remain standing they commemorate the people who died and I think the people who tore it down should be ashamed

and sage, we get these threads a lot.

>>8733305

Look, he may be a road, ancaps hate roads and its really offensive desu

shit, did I just bump the thread

>it's controversial in US to tear down statues of slavers
south should have never been rebuilt

>>8732964
>"All reactionaries are paper tigers. In appearance, the reactionaries are terrifying, but in reality they are not so powerful. "

reminder that conservative and reactionary cause is outdated by definition, and there isn't a single conservative cause that didn't in time fall apart and give in to new ways of livings

>>8734105
>Its not erasing history in its entirety
But it is.
>shit belongs in a museum
Then that applies to all shit, so we might as well remove all statues and historical landmarks from public spaces.
After all history belongs in a museum, right?

>>8735624
They started out underdeveloped but that changed BEFORE because they exploited resources around the world. Socialism has shown success in the countries where it has been tried but due to things like capitalist encirclement end up falling. Look up economic growth by percentage rather than absolute amount and you'll see what I'm talking about.

>>8735624
Also Latin America is a shit example when the united states has fucked with it for so long, capitalism allows for exploitation, that's why a small class ends up having more money than others, including in the west, if we had the same GDP as a poor country and the same inequality we do now you can bet your ass you would be a poor wage slave peasant.

>>8735703
Having a public statue of someone says "This person was great and their deeds and ideology should be revered." It literally transplants their image and presence into everyday life. Tbh I don't think the heroes of the confederacy qualify for that. They fought for an ideology that some men should be able to legally own others, and they lost.

>>8735703
No, because not all history is literal treason in order to preserve slavery, the confederacy has nothing to do with "southern pride" and its better for the progress of society to tear down the statues, move them into museums, and use it to explain why its not something to be celebrated (like we forced the Germans to do).

>>8735724
>>8735732
Your inability to look at these statues and think of anything other than "muh confederacy" and "muh slavery" makes the entire discussion futile.

The idea behind statues of significant people isn't to celebrate all the bad things they did, but their contributions to history.
If "yeah but they did bad things" is enough for you to tear down a statue, then if you were consistent (and had principles) you'd leave no statue left standing.

>>8735794
ah right that's why we have all these statues of hitler everywhere

because he contributed to history

>>8735794
These people's contribution to history is a negative, therefore there is no point in having the statues in public so they can be revered by the public, they belong in a museum where their contribution to history can be known but not celebrated.

>>8735794
So let's take Trump's example of Thomas Jefferson, which is pretty fitting cause there are statues of Jefferson EVERYWHERE in Charlottesville. He was a flawed man, he owned slaves, but he also wrote the Declaration of Independence, came up with separation of church and state, made the Louisiana Purchase and sent Lewis and Clark to explore it, founded the University of Virginia, etc.

Robert E. Lee, while imo a great man, was a general who fought a war against the United States and lost.
Stonewall Jackson was a talented general who fought a war against the United States and lost.
Jefferson Davis was the president of that losing side, which was founded on preserving the South's slave economy.
Pair that with how many of these confederate statues went up in the early and mid 20th century in direct opposition to civil rights. To remind ex-slaves of their place. There is a political agenda behind the existence of these public statues, and it's an ugly ideology that still has a grip on the present. Divorcing our country from the ideology of inequality should be one of our utmost priorities. We can preserve history without using it as a cudgel. (Incidentally, Lee would be disgusted by the statues' purpose - he felt the war was worth it even though he lost since it resulted in the abolition of slavery.)

>>8735714
>they exploited resources around the world
Arabs and Mongols also exploited resources around the world, but they're still literal shitholes.

> Socialism has shown success in the countries where it has been tried
It was tried after those countries achieved success due to competition, liberalism and free market, not before. And it is already turning them into shitholes. Not to mention that coutries who were shit before socialism, like Russia, North Korea and Venezuela, became shittier after going socialist.

>>8735829
>and lost.
>and lost.
>that losing side,
I see how it is. No principle, only victor's justice.

>>8735806
It's why statues of notorious colonists and kings and nobles are so common in Europe.
Because although they did bad things, they contributed to local history.
according to you they should be removed.

And look at Germany with it's neurotic aversion to history. to make up for antisemitism they opened their borders to basically millions of antisemites. Funny because antifa is also antisemitic as fuck (then again I'm not surprised of that because they're ok with stopping education about the holocaust because some people believe in alternative history instead).

>>8735807
>These people's contribution to history is a negative
No it's not.
Unless you truly believe these people have only done bad things from birth all the way up to their deaths, but then you'd have to check with a psychiatrist.
There are statues of people with questionable histories, but they had contributed significantly to science, or sociopolitical development, or simply for fending off foreign invaders.

Jesus Christ that I have to explain the purpose of statues to a bunch of hate filled troglodytes.

Fine with me if you want to erase history, but don't complain when you forget.

>>8735837
By keeping their statues you are preserving Confederate ideology, which should be in the dustbin of history

>>8735843
I could same the same for statues of fundamentalist religious homophobes like MLK or terrorist murderers like Mandela.

>>8735837
The principle is to not treat fellow human beings as a cattle.
I get it's too much to expect from a Southerner but it's how the rest of the world operates

>>8735843
By destroying the statues,you only demonstrate that your ideology is totalitarian, intolerant and bigoted

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>>8735834
>but the Mongols and Arabs exploited resources
Hundreds of years ago before the development of most of modern science so they couldn't actually use any of that to their advantage by creating things like factories and hospitals, but cool just equate two entirely different scenarios
>b-but they're better because of capitalism!
Nice try revisionist, Russia was a backwater monarchy full of serfdom before socialism and became one of the two world superpowers with hospitals, factories, roads, science, housing, and electricity after.

>>8735864
>being this stupid

>>8735851
No because those people actually contributed to something positive in spite of their faults, people remember confederate generals BECAUSE of their faults.

>>8735872
Nice, by your logics, we should ruin all Christian churches and Muslim mosques just because they were built by homophobic scum in the name of homophobic religions, which also advocate and justify slavery. Not to mention that we also should spit in the face of every whore wearing a hijab since she represents a homophobic and sexist ideology. Why is leftist shit so hypocritical? Stop calling yourselves liberals, you are not liberals

>>8735868
>Hundreds of years ago before the development of most of modern science so they couldn't actually use any of that to their advantage
Bingo! And why did Europeans creare the modern science? Due to competition, free market and liberalism.

>Russia was a backwater monarchy full of serfdom before socialism
The Soviet Union was full of serfdom itself.

>became one of the two world superpowers
So was the Russian Empire, you dumb.

>>8735887
>by your logics
I didn't say a wotd aboit my logics you cretin. Stop imagining nonexistant replies and actually read what people write.
>strawmanning
If you can't see the difference between burying parts of history and not celebrating parts of history then this argument is for naught: you'd be literally too stupid to argue

>>8735868
>former Soviet union

they are poorhell shitholes, people are literally running away from there to live in the west

>>8735963
They say the same thing about north Korea but fail to mention those that go back. Gee, wonder why

>>8735915
Your logics is predictable, leftie shit. All leftards, like zombies, have the same opinion on every issue.

>>8736007
Probably because their numbers are so irrelevant.

>>8735902
Russia was never a superpower before socialism, it was a poor and underdeveloped backwater that happened to be large in land and population but nothing more. The soviet union was, by design, not actual communism, instead it was based around the Marxist-leninist idea that Russia must go through different stages guided by a state vanguard to reach a communist society, first agrarian serfdom , then industrial wage labor, and then finally a classless society of freemen., you're doing the equivalent of opening the oven to see a half done cake and saying "why can't I eat it yet?".

>>8735872
He's right, the problem isn't the objective you pursue but the methods you use, free speech and living in harmony with those you disagree with means nothing if it's something unimportant to you.

>>8736051
Or because no one counts them, conveniently.

>>8736068
As a personal experience from someone that lives in a similar shithole, they only ever go back when they are forced to.

>>8736023
>projecting this hard
you didn't have to prove you're utter cretin once more but thanks for doing so anyway

>>8736061
slavers not having state funded statues is not lack of free speech
not celebrating something is not the same as destroying something. previous anon was too stupid to comprehend it, i hope you are intelligent

>>8736123
>not celebrating something is not the same as destroying something

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xleCGUvozKg

Look at these monkeys one more time. Their behaviour is disgusting and they deserve nuking. Seriously, the whole university and campus that brought people up to be like this should be nuked together with teachers and students.

>>8738269
I saw the same behaviour when people were tearing down Lenin statues. Nothing out if ordinary when class of people stops being forced to celebrate their oppressors.
Besides whether you like h o w people tear down statues or not is not an argument for or against the act itself.

>>8733105
>genociding something like 60% of USA's population
There are that many statues?

>statue gets taken down
>99% of people don't give a shit either way but now don't have a landmark for their autopilot drive to work

Thanks assholes, real fucking classy

let's be real, those statues hold a legacy of institutionalized racism and it's honestly just good fun to tear that shit down. tear down all of them, anyone who owned slaves or had some hand in upholding white supremacy, tear it down.