Being trans is a real medical conditi- http://www.mirror.co

>>8684157
>When will we finally remove T from the LGBT?
F*ck off Milo.

>kids don't know what they want!
>harass a younger transitioner into giving up on transition
>she's miserable, transitions anyway
>MSM: CHANGED GENDER THREE TIMES!!!
Media hangs when?

>>8684431
you can swear on 4chan. its ok, your parents probably wont find out

>>8684157
Of course it's not a medical condition. It's a sexual orientation. That's why it's in the LGBT.

>>8685272
Being gay but hating yourself to the point where you'd rather people ask "is that a man?" than "is that a homo?" is not an orientation separate from being gay.

Trying to deceive straight men or appeal to the fetishes of closeted men is not a separate orientation from gay either.

>>8684157
of course it is, and I had to pay my doctor $$$ to get officaly diagnosed with gender dysphoria and get on hrt

>>8684157
This is why adolscents/teens shouldn't be allowed to get Gender Reassignment Surgery unless they are 18 and have consulted a therapist. By undergoing surger 2-4 times, he/she has essentially ruined their body and could have repercussions in the future.

>>8685272
No, it's not an orientation, it's a condition of having a gender identity that doesn't correspond to your assigned sex. It itself isn't a disorder or a disease, only the dysphoria that results from it is.

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>>8686000

>>8686000
Yes it is though.

>>8687338
transgenderism is just a fetish. there's way less people with legitimate body dysphoria than there are trannies.

>>8687347
Most gay guys get body dysmorphia to some extent.

>>8685739
She didn't have surgery as a kid you dummy.

>>8687334
Those have relatively little to do with either assigned sex or gender identity.

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>>8687334
Y CHROMOSOME LOL

>>8687401
Chromosomes have a ton to do with sex. What are you talking about?

>>8687414
They said ASSIGNED sex, dumbass. There are XX people assigned male based on external appearance and vice-versa. It's obviously far less common than being an XY male, but it's not like they check your chromosomal make-up at birth unless something is clearly wrong.

>>8687543
I think it is safe to say over 99% of people who are XX will have female on their birth certificate.

>>8687414
Their effects are already accounted for in assigned sex.

>>8687611
100% of people who are assigned female will have female on their birth certificate.

>>8687543
>There are XX people assigned male based on external appearance and vice-versa.
like 20 of them

>>8687688
This is just a way of denying biological reality.

>>8687611
>on their birth certificate.
Right because intersex people can be denied birth certificates when they are hard to classify.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_intersex_people

>>8687710
Actually estimates are up to 1.7% of people are intersex, although it might not be known until puberty, attempts to conceive, developing a medical problem associated with the "other" sex, or ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#Population_figures

That's more than the number of transitioning trans people. Who also debunk >>8687611's 99%.

>>8687751
Trannies are not intersex.

>>8687751
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#Population_figures

Did you even read that?

According to Leonard Sax, intersex should be "restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female", around 0.018%. This definition excludes Klinefelter syndrome and many other variations.[138] He in turn criticizes Fausto-Sterling for counting Late-Onset Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia for 88% of her figure.

.018%

suck my fat gay cock u filthy tranny

>>8687756
English motherfucker, do you read it.

>>8684465
Fucking this.

>>8687760
>According to Blackless, Fausto-Sterling et al., 1.7 percent of human births are intersex,

Plus read the table.

>>8687764
What table? .018 if you only include intersex conditions that would lead someone being assigned to the opposite phenotype of their chromosome which was your point.

>>8687767
>What table?
Did you even read that?

>>8687778
Ok so do those conditions result in an XX female being considered male? No. Fuck off. Its late.

>>8686000
Shut the fuck up nigger

>>8687790
Many of them yes as you'd know if you knew the first thing about what you're talking about.

>>8687817
Hypospadias results in XX females being considered phenotypic males?

>>8687730
Sex chromosomes are only part of biology. Gene expression is more important and that can be regulated with hormones. Everyone has an X chromosome anyway and that's by far the more important of the two. The Y is a degenerate chromosome with only a few unique genes.

>>8687756
Not under the usual definition but there's a lot of evidence that the prenatal sex differentiation of our brains is different.

>>8687790
If an SRY gene gets attached to the X chromosome in the fertilizing sperm, it can cause an XX individual to be phenotypically male enough to be assigned male.

>her dream 34EE breasts

Oh yeah Blanchard was completely off base, whatta maroon, hahaha, right?

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>>8684157
>literally all "her" decisions are based on potential partners, "my dream breasts", "im a woman because i've been wearing heels and make up at 12"

This is absolutely disgusting.

These people aren't trans.

>>8688518
Holy shit, every fucking brain is different, sex isn't based on the shape/whatever of your brain. It is based on your fucking chromosomes, stop pretending there's a natal difference between a female's brain and male's one, that's plain sexism and denies one of the main pillars of feminism.

>>8688559
Why are you so mad over something that has been proven
We still don't know the exact details but it's a known fact that trans brains resemble more the average brain of the identified gender.

Calm down.

>denies one of the main pillars of feminism
Oh... you are one of those...

>>8688559
Your feelings are not an argument.

>>8688518
>prenatal sex differentiation of our brains is different.
>>8688573
>trans brains resemble more the average brain of the identified gender.

Hey retard, the shape of the brain is constantly changing throughout life. Neuroplasticity is the most important part of the human brain's physiology.

The studies that "prove" trannies' brains match up with their delusions are all poorly done and just bad science.

If you really believe in that tranny phrenology bullshit then why not legislate that brain scans that match someone's chosen gender identity be a legal requirement for transition?

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>>8688573
>>8688583
Aw man, why spend so much time on such useless investigations when it has been proven that the male brain and the female brain aren't a thing? Here's the source, pic related: http://m.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468

I don't mind trans people as long as they stay out of feminism (unless they are ftm) and stop pretending they haven't a mental illness.

>>8688619
>If you really believe in that tranny phrenology bullshit then why not legislate that brain scans that match someone's chosen gender identity be a legal requirement for transition?
That would be great.

>>8688632
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, its on the DSM-5. However a transgender who transitioned due to gender dysphoria and no longer suffers dysphoria doesn't have a mental illness.

>>8688716
Too bad transitioning never helps with their dysphoria or all the comorbid mental issues that all trannies have. Trannies blame all their mental and emotional problems and being an all around failure and fuck up in life on their gender identity. They latch on to the idea that transitioning will magically fix all their problems and their life will be perfect and wonderful and every will worship them as a pretty princess.

When transitioning doesn't solve anything while adding even more problems to the dumpster fire that their life is they kill themselves.

>>8688739
For some it does, for some it doesn't. Your post is a garbage can on fire, buddy. You are way too angry over something that doesn't even affect you.

>>8688739
>They latch on to the idea that transitioning will magically fix all their problems and their life will be perfect and wonderful and every will worship them as a pretty princess.
lol, the complete opposite
most usually transition late because they have zero hopes of transition turning out well so they keep doubting, yet when they do it they realize it does help a ton

do you even read this board? you can see this patern everywhere

>>8688739
>transitioning never helps their dysphoria
[citation needed]
>or the comorbid issues they have
No, because those are treated how they typically are in non-trans populations. Also, having comorbid issues is not a personal failing of trans people, as people like you imply.
>transition causes suicide meme
pls

>>8688739
In short, drop the intellectually dishonest concern trolling and just say you hate trannies, it makes it easier for everyone to ignore you

>>8688745
>>8688754
>>8688755
>>8688759
Why so butthurt?

Treating a mental illness with cosmetic surgery doesn't work. Transitioning is as effective as treating anorexia with liposuction and gastric bypass surgery.

>>8688769
[citation still needed]
[your emotions are not facts]

>>8688769
Not a single one of those replies are butthurt...

>>8688773
>your emotions are not facts
>the whole tranny theory is based on how they ~feel in the wrong body~

>>8688811
Still waiting for the citation on your statements.

>>8688824
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

There you go my tranny friend.

>>8688835
>muh swedish study
That doesn't prove what you think it does. It shows elevated risk of suicide compared to the general population, but a reduced risk compared to pre-transition, and less of a risk overall in the more recent cohort. Which is to be expected, since regardless of transition people like you still hate, and trans people deal with comorbid mental disorders as well partially as a result of the hatred. The study does not draw the conclusion that gender transition is ineffective.

The author has come out and spoken against the false conclusions you draw. Incidentally, she addressed some of the claims in a recent AMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama_series_im_cecilia_dhejne_a_fellow_of/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

>>8688835
Ahaha of course it's this one study. Let me guess you just googled and this came up?
Read the study carefully again, this isn't suicide rate comparison between pre-transition and post-transition, this is just a comparison between post-op transgenders and NORMAL PEOPLE who aren't even trans.

This study is a famous one because even the person who made it had to clarify what it meant, because ignorant people like you had been misunderstanding it since the start.

>>8688856
>>8688854

Eh well, sorry for that one. I wasn't even the anon who said that transition didn't help because honestly I don't care that much about trans issues. I'm glad I learnt something tho, I'll keep doing my research and come up with a source that actually confirms what that anon says which I agree with.

>>8688559
>denies one of the main pillars of feminism
Yes, I deny it.

>>8688559
Actually phenotypic sex is more about hormones. The main thing the Y chromosome does, in particular the SRY gene, is trigger development of testes, which cause masculinization. The right chromosomes are necessary for fertility with very rare exceptions, but the phenotype is more about hormonal action.

>>8688871
If you don't care about trans issues why do you keep trying to find sources for something related to transgenderism? What exactly do you agree with with that anon?

If you are trying to find actual evidence of transition not being beneficial on average, you are not going to find anything, besides studies about sex reassignment surgery that were performed with obsolete techniques.

You are free to keep looking, I'm just warning you that it will be a waste of time, because even if you find an obscure one that agrees with you by a miracle, it will still be just that one against all the others that claim that transition is beneficial.

>>8688619
Neuroplasticity isn't absolute. Not everything can be changed. The framework gets laid down before birth.
I would never legislate brain scans because I don't think people need to be gatekept like that to transition. I don't believe in making things harder. The only situation where I would go along with it would be for early transitioners if it would help them start HRT/transition earlier, especially test/estradiol and not just blockers.

>>8688895
I came here to try and make it clear that transgenderism shouldn't be a thing in the first place because I'm totally against gender stereotypes and only believe in sex.

Yeah, I failed trying to argue about something I know very little about (transitioned people issues) but now you made me interested so I'm going to read and get informed about it.

And I agreed with that anon about transitioning not being the best option to cure a mental illness, simply because I don't think it actually cures dysphoria but instead just goes along the beliefs of the person suffering from it. It somehow makes the patients feel better but I don't think they get "cured".

>>8688950
It was NEVER stated that transitioning cures dysphoria. Transitioning is a treatment, not a cure. This is simple, because they can make dysphoria disappear by transitioning, but the moment they come back to their assigned gender the dysphoria will come back, thus, it cannot be considered a cure.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this treatment whatsoever.

>>8688970
Damn, sorry about mixing up those two words.

Well I guess it's easier to mutilate dysphoric people than trying to make them accept their bodies.

>>8688929
Neuroplasticity is obviously high since people who turn out trans become so neurodivergent.

>>8688632
The letters in response to that study indicate that using multivariate analysis does allow for brains to be distinguished. The original researchers seemed to be looking for a more obvious difference like between normal genitalia. This study is turning into yet another meme.

>>8688989
Transitioning is not about chopping off your dick. It is just a small step that the majority of people skip for multiple reasons.
Having surgery down there is the last thing transitioners think about, and completely optional.

Transitioning is more about socially living as the opposite gender, not about sex sex sex unless they are sex maniacs.

>>8688702
>That would be great.
Are you volunteering to pay for it?

>>8688739
>Too bad transitioning never helps with their dysphoria
It does help. I'm not currently diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

>>8688769
All you're accomplishing is proving that you're more mentally ill than most trans people. There's something wrong with your brain because you're incapable of assimilating factual information and you're consumed with obsessive hatred.

>>8689012
No. I just think it would be great.

>>8689007
Except the part about the original researchers is not true?
This is a speech by one of the authors, Daphna Joel, who refutes the brain gender theory: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYpDU040yzc

>>8689009
Now I don't understand anything. How do they know how the opposite gender lives if they haven't experienced it? And how does it makes them feel at ease with their body?

>>8688856
>Read the study carefully again
Implying that person even knows how to read.

>>8688950
I hope you'll keep an open mind about trans issues. We're suffering and trying to make the best of our lives. Getting bombarded with hate only makes things more difficult.

>>8689077
Knowing you feel like the opposite or another gender is a lot more noticeable when you experience that incongruence first hand. Hard to explain to people who have fundamentally considered and felt themselves to be a male or female all along.

Trans people feel better as their identified gender and feel happier doing gendered behaviour that matches their identified gender. Trans people also like being treated as their identified gender as it minimizes the distress of that incongruence.

If you're that dude who hates gender stereotypes you might just say that MtF's can be feminine gay guys who like wearing dresses but that entirely avoids the issue that they're still a GUY doing thag and that's an incongruence that will cause distress.

>>8689077
As I said, on the page the original study is linked to there are "Related Letters" that question the methodology, and argue that different methods of analysis, in particular multivariate analysis, does allow for gender categorization. Yes the authors are wrong because they're defining brain sex too narrowly.

>>8689077
Living as the opposite gender just means being treated as the opposite gender while living a normal life. It doesn't really include having hobbies and interests as the opposite gender, since that's just bullshit, every person is different.
Honestly, as shallow as it sounds, in this society is all about image, and the appearance of oneself is the most important thing to blend with the rest and live a normal life.

Successfuly living a normal life as the opposite gender makes them feel better with their bodies because it means their bodies are good enough to make people believe they are the opposite gender. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't be able to live a normal life by getting clocked all the time.

Transitioning is about looking at the mirror and seeing a happy, healthy woman/man, and blending in society without problems and anxiety. Usually when you achieve the first, the second becomes a reality, and when the second becomes a reality, it's a furher confirmation that your self image is good enough.

I hope I'm not being too confusing.

>reading the mirror
Disgusting.

>>8687730
I'm not denying that chromosomes play a role in sex differentiation. What I am denying is that it is in any way reasonable to use chromosomes as a basis for how you treat people.

>>8688559
Feminism in general does not make any statement on the nature of biological differences between men and women. Remember, feminism started around the turn of the 20th century, when relatively little was known about the human brain or biology in general. It would be silly to base feminism about some unproven claim about biology that could be proven wrong in the future. That's not what feminism is about, it's about the idea that women are valid human beings in their own right REGARDLESS of what their biological differences from men are.

>>8688769
>HRT is "cosmetic surgery"
>GD is the same thing as anorexia

>>8688835
Oh wow, you posted the study whose author publicly announced that she wanted idiots like you to stop misinterpreting it and taking quotes out of context.

>>8688996
The area of the brain that controls "gender identity" has very LOW neuroplasticity. Otherwise, if a pre-everything trans girl overdosed on T she would become a cis guy, when in reality it just makes her more dysphoric.

>>8689747
>HRT is "cosmetic surgery"

Body modifications to imitate the opposite sex are purely cosmetic.

>GD is the same thing as anorexia

Having a delusional and completely incorrect self image and taking drastic, damaging measures to alter your body based on that warped delusional self image is the same sort of mental illness. It's flawed thinking that needs to be fixed, not a flawed body that needs to be warped to fit the delusional self image.

>area of the brain that controls "gender identity"

What part of the brain is that and what makes you think that it has anything to do with "gender identity"?

Since you're obviously a tranny, could you answer this simple question: What is the difference between men and women and what does being a man feel like in comparison to what being a woman feels like?

Since you've dedicated your life to your gender identity you should easily have an answer to this simple question.

>>8684157
Fuck you Milo
I hope you go to prison for being a pedofag

>>8684157
OK, I actually read the article just now. Ria says she detransed only because of anti-trans social pressure, not because she was confused about her identity. She's retransing because detransing didn't work out. Her participation in a documentary was a big problem and a bad decision that made it impossible to be stealth.
It seems like the big problem for her is the kind of trans hate that infests this thread. You people who hate us are not helping us, you're only making things worse for us and everyone else. You will fail at changing us.

>>8690082
If your mental health is dependent on literally everyone else in the world playing along with your fictional identity then maybe transitioning isn't a viable treatment.

Maybe finding a way to accept the physical reality of your body and learning to be comfortable in your own natural skin is a better solution than making your emotional fulfillment dependent on and demanding that all 7,000,000,000+ people on the planet validate your delusions by pretending that you're a perfect pretty princess.

>> intersex should be "restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female

By that definition trans people(who transition) are intersex.

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>>8689980
strawman responses wont change your chromosomes sweetie :^)

>>8690192
No. There is nothing physically wrong with trannies' bodies. It's just a mental illness where they latch onto the idea that all their problems and personal deficiencies are a result of their sex.

Trannies need to stop equating themselves with intersex people. The two groups have nothing in common.

>>8690146
Maybe you're the one who needs to accept the reality of trans people. You can call it a delusion all you want but professionals who actually deal with people with delusions on a daily basis know the difference and they don't consider us delusional. All you're doing trying to cloak your pathological hate with a veneer of legitimacy. You seem to think we deserve the bullying and abuse we get. When will you learn that you can't change us. Deal with it.

>>8690146
show me your degree in psychology, or even just any other medical field

>>8690239
>When will you learn that you can't change us.

If we can't change or affect you, then why are you blaming people like me for causing tranny suicides?

>Deal with it.

You should deal with the fact that you're a male and nothing will ever change that.

What is " the reality of trans people"?

How about answering the question I asked earlier?
>>8689944
>Since you're obviously a tranny, could you answer this simple question: What is the difference between men and women and what does being a man feel like in comparison to what being a woman feels like?

>Since you've dedicated your life to your gender identity you should easily have an answer to this simple question.

>>8690272
>If we can't change or affect you, then why are you blaming people like me for causing tranny suicides?
you're fucking delusional lol

>>8688529
Blanchard is the hero us gays deserve.

>>8690272
How am I supposed to know the difference between what it feels like to be a man and what it's like to be a woman? I never felt like a man so I wouldn't know.

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>>8688632
>http://m.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468

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>>8690318

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>>8690253
Don't need a degree to call a spade a spade

>>8690292
In your own words, what does being a woman feel like? Can you define what makes a woman a woman?

What makes you think what you're feeling is what an actual woman feels? Why do you think you know what being a woman is supposed to feel like? Why not accept that undeniable fact that what your feeling isn't what a woman feels but is really just what a mentally ill man feels?

>>8690347
Sorry, I'm not playing anymore, especially when you post such a lame picture. This is a setup and I'm not taking the bait.

>>8690498
>This is a set up

How so? You've dedicated your entire life to pretending to be a woman. You should at least be able to define what being a woman means to you.

Then again, look at the ridiculously high rate of paranoia among MtF trannies. >>8690322

>>8690527
I've never been diagnosed with a personality disorder.
I don't seek validation of my identity from anonymous shitposters on a Tuvaluan haberdashery forum. I function as a woman in my daily life and I'm legally female. That's really what's important.

I'm all for enabling them. Let's be honest. 95%+ are doing it t be trendy... So let's humor them and give them everything they ask for, knowing full well 19/20 will regret it, and will probably be physically and chemically ruined for the rest of their lives. That's how I feel about this bs... I'm past hating them, im past trying to help them in the most productive way... Now we're at the point where it's better we find the retards who want to fight for Isis and pay for their plane ticket to Iraq. Let them go, because they're too fucking stupid to waste our time explaining to them why it's a bad decision.

The suicide rate for trans people is ~40x higher than the general population. What do you wanna bet it is for post-hrt/srs trenders in 5 years? I wouldn't be shocked if it was 95%. It's important to understand even the best transition still leaves the person sterile and dealing with serious physical shortcomings. Imagine dealing with all that, AND the regret of doing it to yourself... And all while looking like a hon.

It's gonna be fucking hilarious! I'll gladly see the NHS or Medicare take the hit financially, to also get to read the stories about the uptick in suicides.

Btw, I should mention I didn't hate these people before... But having them shit all over me for my white, male, CIS, gay(the fuck? When was gay added to that list?) Privilege has kinda made me numb to their issues.

>>8690647
>legally female

biologically male

>>8690708
what is the suicide rate for post transition?

>>8690725
I dunno. Pretty sure it drops a *tiny* bit but it's still significantly higher than any other demographic (other than pre-op trans). Though there's prob not enough data to make a conclusion since there's not really too many srs surgeries up until the last 5 years. I'd bet it'll be higher, since the regret a bunch would feel + no longer having properly functioning sex organs for the ones who aren't regretful.

>>8690725
Suicide is irrelevant to me because I have no plans to an hero ever. There'd be a lot less of that if trans people were treated better.
fwiw I'm supposed to get a mammogram next year and I've had gynecological exams.

>>8690791
That's a pretty fucking stupid thing to say. Most suicidal people don't cognitively think they're going to kill themselves until they reach the breaking point. Even "suicidal" people who attempt 9/10 do so in a bs way that's more about getting attention.

And I'm confident most of the depression trans people real with is directly linked to their dysphoria. Society being mean to them might edge it up, but that's like blaming traffic laws for drunk drivers deaths. Sure, maybe he wouldn't have died in that accident if he smashed into that barrier at 90mph, but if it wasn't there, odds are he'd have died hitting some other object.

Trans people are sick. There's a chemical imbalance in their brain. One way of coping is to give into their delusions and compel society to indulge them. Problem with that is people don't like being told what they have to say or do, so out of resentment they'll challenge it, and thus shatter that glass house that is a trans persons emotional self worth.
The more productive way it seems would be to convince trans people they're not actually trans and it's all in their head. You know, like how we deal with other body dismorphia... Not go along with sufferers of body integrity dismorphia and cut off their legs... Or go along with schizophrenics and rip all their teeth out... Or go along with people on methadone from heroin addiction and peel their skin off to remove the imaginary spiders.

>>8684157
Why does this invalidate transsexualism? She was clearly bullied into detransition the first time.

>>8690966
This, and then people wonder why we're so fucked in the heads.

>>8690901
>Even "suicidal" people who attempt 9/10 do so in a bs way that's more about getting attention.
You mean "suicidal" women.

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>>8690725
>legally female

biologically male

When that other anon accused you of baiting with a set up, that is the shit she was talking about. If you don't care about an answer, don't ask the question, just lob insults like the rest of us you AIDS patient.

t. a fag who hates trannies

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>>8690901
>>8691026

>>8691074
not even mad, just confused why someone would pretend to want discourse as a set up for low energy trolling on 4chan; it reeks of "I was only pretending to be retarded" famalam