How does /lgbt/ feel about the reinstatement of the ban on t

>>8650995

Well, there are two ways to look at it:

1. It's kind of a weird position to take. Are there really so many transgender people in the United States lining up to join the military that there is even a possibility of them making a dent in terms of resource drain?

2. The ban makes sense to me if you view the military for what it actually is. It's a serious organization with one goal. It's not there to shake hands or kiss babies. Trannies come with a lot of baggage and would probably cause a lot of problems among the other soldiers too since they are so controversial.

Why would you wanna join the military if not just to reap the free insurance your gonna get from it to pay for hormones / surgeries?

Aren't most trans people deliberately anti-government anyways? At least the ones protesting against it who are all part of that "progressive queers" circle. If you really wanna join just go in like the gays did when Don't Ask, Don't Tell was still up and running and eventually the law will blow itself over when people realize how much of a non-issue it is.

>>8651054
The problem with that is that trans people can't exactly stealth the way gays can. You'd have to go and serve as your birth gender without being on hormones and that's just fucking miserable, not on the same level as just not mentioning you like cock/pussy.

>>8651058
Asking to be treated as the gender you identify as is fine, but you really shouldn't be in the army if you're on hormones.

>>8650995
mentaly ill should go to a mental hospital

>>8651058
I agree it'd be a miserable process and I don't agree with the law myself but if you were really passionate about joining, I'm sure some people would join just to prove that they could while the law is instated until it eventually comes under fire again. I'm sure it will sooner then later with just how controversial of a law it is.

>>8650995
The reasoning might make sense, but I really don't have the experience or data to know whether trans people being in the military actually is causing serious issues in practice. I don't really agree with what Trump did though, he apparently announced it before the generals had actually decided anything, and he should have just stated that anyone with a mental illness or who needs regular medication is forbidden from military service, rather than making it specifically about trans people.

>>8651054
I think MOST people in the military, trans or not, do it for the benefits.

>>8651103
Everyone with a mental illness, or who needed regular medication, was already banned from military service

bu,[

>>8651067
That's stupid as fuck and trans people without hormones are not going to be stable enough to serve. You realize hormones are why trans people can look like their identifed gender, right? You're saying they should treat a biological male that looks like a dude like a lady and vice versa. That's retarded.

I feel like transpeople can serve if they want to serve but medical stuff they can do without military funding

>>8651312
So, then, none of them should be able to serve?

no they dont need to transition to fight a war

>>8651338
Since you shouldn't be on active duty if you're on hormones

well no they can pay for their own medical expenses hormones dont really effect you that much, im a transman I know, Its just sorta like going through a small puberty agian it shouldnt effect how they fight

>>8650995
I support it.

>Personally, I believe that transgendered people should be allowed to serve
Okay.

>but not anyone with dysphoria, or who is currently on hormones.
Make up your mind. Either you've transitioned (and therefore you're on hormones), or you have dysphoria.

>>8651370
Neither should be able to join. Taking any sort of prescription medication makes you ineligible to sign up.

nah dude its completly safe for fully transitioned hoes the ones still working on it should not be doing that untill their out of the military

>>8651410
Yeah, we've all covered that.

I just want to know where the """"transgender""""" people who aren't dysphoric and aren't on hormones are coming in.

Are you all fucking serious? It cost o.oo1 the budget to handle all trans care. It's 2500 active members and 15000 total. It on ly costs at most 8 million and at lowest 2.5 million for basic hrt. And other care.. thats nothing. It was all a distraction from templates current embarrassments

>>8651487
*trumptards'

They fucking pay 5 times that for viagra.

>>8651067
>Asking to be treated as the gender you identify as is fine
That shit will not fly for one second in any branch of the US military except for the Coast Guard. Mixed male-female squads already don't work, introducing a new variable, someone who feels different to how they actually are, is asking for a world of trouble. And that's barring all of the financial issues it would bring.

>>8651487
It costs more than money to get someone medication while they're in service, and that's precisely why people who require active medication are barred from joining.

There's also the argument that the military, a group of organizations whose sole purpose is to win wars, should not be paying for what essentially boils down to cosmetic surgery.

>>8651531
>should not be paying for what essentially boils down to cosmetic surgery.
Dismissing it as "cosmetic surgery" is stupid because a large part of it isn't anything of the sort, and even the stuff that does have cosmetic side effects is done for medical reasons. It's no different than any other kind of medical treatment really. If you want to make a valid argument, just say that the military should not be paying for the treatment of conditions that do not result from military service.

>>8651568
By cosmetic surgery I mean people don't NEED it, it's done purely for self-satisfaction, in the same way that face lifts are.

I believe the military should reward veterans and active servicemen with health benefits, including surgery that did not result from service, but I don't think they should foot the bill for medical expenses that are incurred for "pleasure", as it were.

>>8651487
The problem here is that we're paying more per soldier for troopers that aren't as effective as others

transition sucks but its too much of a process to do while in the army you either transition outside of the military or wait untill your done

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>>8651370
>Make up your mind. Either you've transitioned (and therefore you're on hormones), or you have dysphoria.
This. Gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness according to DSM 5, isn't even cured with hormones. It only elevates the effects.

no one one on /lgbt/ would pass a mental anyway

>>8651855
nobody on 4chan would pass a mental either, anon

I don't know how I really feel about it, or if I should even have an opinion (as a repressing mtf)
I know I and most biological males could be pushed to pass the physical requirements, I even went to a military themed high school when I was younger and did fine.
if you're a female to male, you'd have to be with the other males, and it'd be very hard to hang with everyone physically, and, knowing that you're a biological male, there might be some creep shit going on from the other soldiers.
if you're a MtF I can't really think of the immediate problems but it might cause some lack of cohesion among the other female soldiers.
idk. realistically it's a pretty easy job and anyone can do it unless you're a super bad ass special forces person, but there's so many retards in the military there's bound to be issues.

>>8651923
knowing you're a biological female*

>>8651923
They have lower physical standards for females.

The enemy won't.

>>8651949
I know they have lower physical standards for females, that's why said I couldn't think of any immediate issues...
the enemy won't what?

>>8651955
Utilize women or transgendered persons in their army, probably

>>8651955
The enemy won't hold back just because you're a woman or a tranny.

>>8651588
>HRT is cosmetic
>purerly done for pleasure

what the fuck am I reading

>>8651972
Well, technically he's right, at least on the pleasure part. Every medical procedure is done for pleasure.

>>8651969
I'm playing the devils advocate. physicality is unecessary for most US military positions, it's maintained mostly for discipline and tradition, you're only going to be getting in firefights with the enemy if you're infantry and even that would be rare.

>>8651972
You won't die if you don't have it done. It's a luxury and done solely for the purpose of satisfying a personal desire. I put "pleasure" in scare quotes to mean pleasure in the "business or pleasure?" sense, rather than sexual pleasure.

>>8651976
No, some are done for medical reasons.

>>8651980
Every single individual is required to be up to snuff because in wartime, they can and will be called upon to serve as infantry. The draft is a backup plan.

>>8651981
But providing Viagra is perfectly fine?
Fuck off with double standards the military is retarded.

>>8651982
Every procure done for medical reasons, even those not directly relating to transgender stuff, is done for pleasure
>>8651980
>you're only going to be getting into firefights if you're infantry
You mean the backbone of the army? POG's need to maintain a general level of physical fitness in case shit hits the fan and they need to be thrown into the front line

>>8651986
right, but the actual chance of that happening is rare

>>8651987
No, providing Viagra is not fine, I never said it was.

>Fuck off with double standards the military is retarded.
Truly, you are the definition of level-headed.

>>8651990
You only consider it rare because we haven't had a real war in almost 50 years. The next time an actual, full-on war starts, you can bet your bottom dollar they will be called upon because we simply do not have enough active infantry to fight a war on their own.

>>8651988
>Every procure done for medical reasons,
>even those not directly relating to transgender stuff,
Redundancy.

>>8651990
>but the actual chance of that happening is rare
so is the chance of us actually getting into an engagement with another superpower, and yet we maintain the largest air force and navy on earth. The military only exists to respond to "rare" occurrences. Otherwise, we should do away with the military altogether.

>>8650995
I hate how this place is just Trans central. Just remove the T from LGBT and make a different board for the mentally ill.

>>8652000
>implying fags aren't mostly repressing trannies

>>8651997
so you agree with everything I said you just wanted to express that you're anti-military, ok

>>8652005
Please stop misrepresenting what I said. I'm not anti-military, the threat that other nations pose is great enough that maintaining the military to defend against them is worth it, even if the chances of war are so low. Anything which does not lend itself to a more effective military is inherently wasteful.

>>8651987
Healthcare for issues soldiers develop is different to far more expensive healthcare for preexisting conditions that people literally sign up in order to get funded.

>>8652009
then we agree

>>8652015
No, we don't? You were saying that the chances of war breaking out is so low that it would be OK to reduce physical standards for POG's. I'm saying literally the complete opposite of that

>>8652018
>You were saying that the chances of war breaking out is so low that it would be OK to reduce physical standards for POG's.
I was the person listing reasons why a trans ban was probably a good thing, but I also explained why it probably wouldn't matter in some cases since there's a load of military jobs that are effectively "sit on your ass" jobs.
they won't change the physical standards nor would I want them too, but if a trans person could pass the physical requirements I don't see why they couldn't serve.
idk what pog is

>>8652029
"Sit on your ass" jobs are almost entirely done away with during wartime. POG is an acronym for "person other than grunt", a derogatory term used by infantrymen for sit-on-your-ass jobs

Being gay and in the military is already a struggle from day one, I was smart enough not to tell anyone and to this day three years in nobody knows. Then you have the gay boys and girls who show up and own it from day 1, they're the ones I see getting jumped behind the barracks just because they like the same gender. I've witnessed a sergeant major tell a soldier he should kill himself for being a faggot (this was in 2015). I have also witnessed a first sergeant actively trying to take away a married couple's housing allowance because "same sex marriages don't count"

And they think transgender people would work in the military, holy shit.

>>8652046
are you infantry or officer enlisted? what is the day to day like? been thinking about going the national guard route.

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>>8652002
then what are lesbian trannies?

>>8652079
straight men who can't get pussy

>>8652054
I'm a tanker (19K) enlisted

Here's an average monday in garrison
>0530 wake up
>0600 walk to pt formation
>0630 salute the flag as reveille plays
>0730 form up again to end pt
>0800 shower and eat breakfast
>0900 show up for work, find and fix faults on my tank, which is always a large amount because the m1a2 abrams is always broke as fuck
>1200-1300 lunch
>1300 continue working on tank
>1800 pack up and go home, unless POL brought new parts for your tank at 1730, in which case your ass is there until midnight
>1801 begin drinking
>1900 contemplate suicide
>2000 dude down the hall commits suicide, why can't I have the balls like him
>2100 throw up from too much drinking
>2200 black out in bathroom

repeat for every day

>>8652088
awesome thanks.

>>8652088
also is everyone pretty laid back once you get through basic training or does it still feel like really regimented? I'd imagine you're allowed to dick around a lot more. do you have to keep a shaved head? and how long before you're actually allowed to buy cigarettes and alcohol? only once you're actually stationed right?

>>8652138
No problem, the guard probably isn't a bad choice though. On both my deployments whenever we encountered a guard unit we immediately hated them because they seemed happy and didn't give a shit about anything while we literally stand guard in front of the shitters because someone decided to draw a dick in sharpie inside the stall again.

>>8652144
I'm not sure about AIT since I only did OSUT. Which is basic training + job training for any combat MOS. I hear AIT things start out the same as basic training but eventually you can get to higher phases where you're allowed to go to the px and whatnot after class.

Once you're actually at your duty station, you can do whatever you want with your hair as long as it's compliant with AR 670-1. After work and on the weekends you can do whatever you want as long as you don't go beyond the maximum allowed travel distance and don't do anything illegal. You will need God himself to save your soul if you get a DUI. You might be allowed to buy tobacco in AIT but i'm not sure. At your first duty station, smoke to your hearts content as long as you're not within 50 feet of a building or within eyesight of someone that gives a shit.

As far as being laid back, that depends entirely on your platoon that you arrive to, as a new private you will get fucked with a lot for the first few months, it will suck but it really isn't that bad.

>>8651617
>Gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness according to DSM 5, isn't even cured with hormones.
It usually makes said dysphoria better, if it doesn't (in combination with surgery) pretty much eliminate it. Made mine a thousand times better, that's for sure.

>>8652046
Thanks for this. We hear so much noise about how it's "not a problem." It's nice to hear some unvarnished truth for once.

>>8652169
Of course, I can't speak for any of the other branches but the trans ban is a good thing in terms of the army. It isn't a trans problem, it's an army problem.

>Young 18 y/o trans dude
>Wow! Tuition assistance, great medical coverage, reliable paycheck, and who doesn't respect soldiers?
>Visit recruiter
>Cav scout sounds great!
>Finish OSUT
>Get treated like shit, your unit is pissed the new soldier they desperately need is one of those new trans ones
>Make minor fuckup
>Unit blows it out of proportion, give you an article 15
>Reduction of pay and 45 days of extra duty
>Kicked out with an other than honorable discharge
>Can't get a job between being trans and having an other than honorable on your record

Probably wouldn't happen in a POG mos, but the best bet for any LGBT individual seeking military service will always be the air force or coast guard.

>>8652079
All Z are Y != all Y are X

>>8652233
what

>>8652088
>work on the tank for 5 hours every day
What the fuck? What do mechanics get paid for if tankers have to do all the repair work themselves?

>>8650995
What pissed me off wasn't the ban itself which I can understand for logistical/mission readiness reasons. It's how it was announced, out of the blue, by tweet, to the surprise of the Pentagon, and without considering the trans people who are already serving. Also how everyone seems to be taking it as justification for hating us. I've lost count of how many times I've seen "mentally ill trannies btfo".

>>8652996
That was the whole point. This isn't even about trans people, it's just meant to be something distracting from the whole Russia thing and the heathcare shit.

>>8652996
Agreed. The ban is just a re-instatement of a previous policy held by the army. There was a better way to announce this than using twitter.

If a trans person is able to pass the necessary tests and requirements required of everyone else, they should be allowed to serve.

>>8653765
Trans people, sure, but having dysphoria or being on hormones should disqualify you from enlisting, like it does for every other mental condition or prescription medication

>>8653765
>>8653783
I notice this week that legbutts with a fairly understandable reaction to this have kinda been spinning their wheels on this for the past week. "Why is someone not allowed to serve if they can meet the requirements?"
There is a "wealth" of reasons. We have a laundry list of things that disqualify otherwise perfectly legitimate candidates from joining. If you've taken Ritalin in the past year for add or adhd, you cannot join. If you've suffered a concussion, you cannot join. These are groups that represent a high risk, low reward investment for our military.
If this is something you really, REALLY care about, this is a lengthy, detailed explanation from a vet about why exactly gop warhawks and Trump want this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7jptUoiGHA

>>8653835
what the hell is a legbutt

>>8653862
>lgbt
>legbt
>legbutt

>>8653873
nice

>>8651369
It reduces muscle mass and bone density for MTF, and any hormonal imbalance is bad news in a warzone

>>8651369
>well no they can pay for their own medical expenses
Where do you expect to get tranny meds in Iraq?

>>8652000

This all day fucking long is why I never lurk /lgbt. In response to OP, I support Trumps decision and I think had it been allowed to continue as it has, more and more trans ppl would've joined to get free surgery.

>>8653783
>having dysphoria
>being on hormones
So uhh...which trans people *are* allowed to serve then?

>>8654561
The ones that fall into neither of those categories

>>8654575
So trenders? Last time I checked recruiters didn't like narcissists either.

>>8654580
what the fuck is a trender

>>8654589
people who become trannies because it's trendy

>>8654885
you mean saying they're trans just because it suits them in their social lives?

>>8654911
ya

>>8654561
None, obviously, since there are precisely ZERO of us who don't fit either category.

I said the same thing here >>8651370, but the cis people don't seem to be getting how ridiculous that stipulation is.

>>8655204
Its not a ridiculous stipulation at all. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, which therefore makes you ineligible for service. Being on any sort of medication also disqualifies you from service.

>>8655131
so hstses

>>8655227
I'm sorry, I don't speak snake

>>8655214
Sweet jesus fuck.

THE POINT, which has been made three times already, is that ALL TRANS PEOPLE fall into one of those two categories.

I don't have a problem with barring trans people from the military. I'm annoyed at how the OP put it.

It's like if you were putting together a fruit basket and someone said, "Only include fruits that are from the bakery or from the frozen-meat department." So...NO FRUIT, since you couldn't get fruit from either of those departments. Neither bread nor meat are fruits.

Please tell me you finally get this now.

>>8655235
What? Not all transgender people are on hormones or have dysphoria

>>8655247
Stop replying to yourself OP.

>>8655329
I'm not

>>8652081
The right answer.

>>8655335
You're right, he isn't

>>8655247
All trans people have gender dysphoria by FUCKING DEFINITION.

If you're not dysphoric, you're either a) not trans, or b) treated well enough with hormones/surgery not to experience dysphoria any more.

Fuck right off with any Tumblr bullshit about how you don't need dysphoria to be trans. That shit is absolutely destroying public perception and (by extension) our legal rights (e.g. safe bathroom access) and probably eventually our access to trans-specific medical care.

>>8655547
>implying the supposed disease is nothing but the symptom
Then trans isn't a condition. It's a symptom. Real conditions can be benign or invisible.

>>8655233
"Hannah, he's a Blanchardmouth. Everyone knows that’s the mark of a Dark Tranny. Have you ever heard of a decent one who could talk about HSTSes?"

>>8655573
I'm confused, isn't that the whole idea with how it's classified in the DSM? Being trans identified isn't a mental illness but the dysphoria resulting from it is

>>8655582
Except that if >>8655547 is true there is no difference between the two.

"A isn't a mental illness but B is. A causes B. A cannot exist without B, by definition."

A and B are two words for the same thing.

>>8655573
>Then trans isn't a condition. It's a symptom.
wat

>Real conditions can be benign or invisible.
Not...all? Not all medical conditions can be benign or invisible. I don't know why you would say this.

>>8655648
YES, they are literally words for the same thing.

The confusion here exists because of trenders who are claiming to be trans without dysphoria. The DSM is basically saying, "it's not a mental illness to want to change sex, it's a mental illness if you experience great distress over it." They are basically allowing for the idea that some people socially transition out of ideology or because they want to be exotic or whatever, or even medically transitioning as a really stupid body mod without having transition.

If you ask me, those things absolutely SHOULD be considered "mentally ill," although they probably fit better under some kind of personality disorder. Normal, sane people don't even socially transition for shits and giggles. But the DSM has ALWAYS been like this. E.g. they distinguish between pedophila as a sexual orientation and pedophilia which is a clinical problem because it either a) causes the pedo great distress or b) results in them molesting a child or watching CP.

Technically though, if you're a pedophile but you don't download child porn, don't molest kids and don't hate yourself...by the DSM, there's literally nothing wrong with you.

There's NO other reason for anyone to think they're separable besides trenders pushing it, though.

>>8655694
>YES, they are literally words for the same thing.
Then you are claiming the DSM
>Being trans identified isn't a mental illness but the dysphoria resulting from it is
Is bullshit.

>>8655694
Ok, so then, if all trans people are either on hormones or are dysphoric, none of them should be allowed in.

>>8655694
Thanks a lot asshole, now look >>8655832

>>8655847
Why do you keep responding to yourself?

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>>8655854
But I'm not?

Patriotism is a spook. The only way they could make this better is by exempting us from jury duty as well.

>>8655847
You're welcome, because that's right. None of us should be in the military. Whine to mommy harder.

>>8656030
What, you show up for jury duty anyways? What are you, queer?

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>Trans people just got a free "Get out of the draft" card like people with ADHD, Asthma, or flat foot
>Mad about it

lmao

just a huge fucking liabilty.

I agree with the decision. No trans what so ever allowed in whos taking hormones. Especially those FtM who belive they are as strong as real males.

The MtF would just be gang raped by her squad probably every night.

There's no chance I'll get drafted so I'm happy about it

>>8650995
Most trannys are just their to get free pills and surgery for their dicks getting chopped off and not getting the wound infected. That shit is wasting tax payer's dollars for some transvestite. So good bye you transgender piece of fucking human garbage.

>>8650995

If you can pass selection, I don't see why anyone would be prevented from serving.

Let 'em die in the sand if they want.

>>8656972
>>8657332
Mate, there's never gonna be another draft ever again anyways
>>8657400
Gender dysphoria and/or being on hormones makes you ineligible to enlist, though

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>>8650995
Most people don't the army. They're not wasting time with the potentially mentally ill. I agree they should be allowed to join if they shut the fuck up about it most of the time. But I think the worries is that trannies are gonna bitch about not being able to shower with females or something as if they are repressed and will make it about that. No more clownery the world is silly enough as it is. Trump wants to protect gays and all he just doens't have time for stupid crap right now.

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>>8657413
>Trump wants to protect gays and all he just doens't have time for stupid crap right now.

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I'm kind of torn in the debate on whether or not trannies should serve in the military. On one hand, Trannies dying for our country is good. But on the other hand, Trannies might be considered more important and therefor more valuable for the country.