do you guys believe all gay people are born gay? I don't

>>8623632
I used to be sure nobody was born their orientation but since learning about trannies I'm not so sure.

Why do you think you weren't born gay?

>>8623658
idk desu, I haven't really felt gay all my life

>>8623632
>do you guys believe all gay people are born gay?
nope
>I don't think i was born gay in all honesty, i think something made me this way, is that at all possible?
yep

I was definitely born gay. I've known I was different and that I liked guys "A LOT!" as far back as I can remember in my very boring ordinary childhood, since before I knew what "gay", "straight", or "sex" even meant. I'm not flamboyant or fem, and I don't have any affectations or feel any kind of weird "bond" with or desire to "belong" to the so-called "lgbt community". I'm just a boring ordinary guy who likes other guys and wants to roll around naked and sweaty with them. I don't want them to be like women or prepubescent children and shave the manly attributes off their bodies, or need them to put on makeup or wear dresses and be subservient. I don't need to pretend to be "the woman" while they preform some silly masculine culture ritual wearing leather and beating me with a whip. I don't have fantasies about their dicks that are somehow bizarrely detached from the rest of their bodies in some fetishistic shrine. I just want to kiss and grope and fuck and enjoy their intimate company.

I feel very alone, however. I feel like the vast majority of "out" fags are ones with some kind of fucked up mental problem caused by some horrifying childhood trauma. They act fake. They act like they have no idea who they are or they are terrified of who they are. They act affected, as if everything they do is intended to distract from something real about them that they don't want you to notice. Sex can never be just for fun, it has to be a production as if they are performing on a stage. Everything is a fetish. Nothing has any depth with them. When you scratch below the surface and attempt a meaningful relationship you find shallow vapid nothingness. They are nothing but the surface.

>>8623758
I mean, i agree with most of that, but i don't feel i was born gay, but I'm not even close to a flamer, in fact, when i came out of the closet, literally everyone didn't believe me at first, all though, i am into some sissy shit like cross dressing if that counts, do you think access to media like 4chan and anime could have done that, i've been here since i was 15

>>8623673
I mean I kind of relate.

I'm not one of those people who "always knew" they were gay. My first crush and intense romantic feelings were for a girl who lived across my road.

Now that I think about it, most of the crushes in my childhood were girls prior to moving to the current location of my parent's house. My first wet dream was to fingering one of said crushes.

I think had I stayed and not moved around so many times, I would have been straight. Honestly. The last time we moved when I was in the 4th grade was tremendously difficult for me. I felt casted away by my peers, lived relatively far from other kids (which I was not accustomed to) and spent most of my days completely alone. To be honest, I still harbor a bit of resentment towards my parents for the various moves my family had to endure. Losing best friends and a comfortable, easy childhood into uncertainty, self-hatred and loneliness fucked not just myself but my sister as well.

Anyways, I still find chicks hot. I've got quite a few videos in my porn stache of straight porn/just girls masturbating. It's hot as fuck.

But I feel nothing towards them romantically. It's like talking to a rock. I could easily have sex with a woman and I have. Although, in terms of relationships, I'm ambivalent. I wouldn't mind trying but I'm fairly pessimistic that it wouldn't work. Tis life. (still consider myself gay though).

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>>8623632
>do you guys believe all gay people are born gay?
Yes. Biscums exist though, so they might be biscums and they thought they're straight/gay at first, until they saw an extremely beautiful man/woman. Culture/beliefs can also make a person subconsciously repress their attraction to men/women.

>I don't think i was born gay in all honesty, i think something made me this way, is that at all possible?
I don't think so.

well im not honestly sure

i do recall being raped repeatedly around the age of 5 but im not sure if it affected anything

>>8623922
oh and im not gay actually

well im mtf and into men but i think im just straight

>>8623632
I'm pretty sure their life experiences just lead to them liking boys. I would never call it born to be gay. It's just that normally our heads are wired to find women attractive whether it be through genetical, inherit traits. Society teaches us the normal way to go about it pretty early, but that's not to say they forced us straight. I mean most bisexuals come about later than any other sexual orientation. Why? because most people need more experience in life before they require the taste for both. Some rare few pick up on it in puberty, but can't quite grasp their potential till later

>>8623632
Weren't there a ton of studies more or less proving this?

>>8623632
I agree. I use to watch excusively straight porn and now im on this board, I think people can be born feminine or masculine but not gay.

>>8623632

Born gay? Probably not. Much in the same way most of your personality will come from nurture rather than nature.

But it's still bullshit to call it a choice.

>>8623632
I unironically think I'm gay because I'm not close to my father and was never "one of the guys" growing up. It's a misplaced need for affection from men

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I've never been attracted to the opposite sex, always just made friends with them. Had some intense, confusing crushes that I repressed with religion. I truly believe I was born homosexual. You all really don't have any experiences like that?

bumping for interest, also >>8626922 this

>>8623632
Yes. Trannies are gay males in denial + fetishistic crossdressers.

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>>8630635
TERFs get triggered whenever anyone has fun in life, as the modern temperance movement you are.

>>8623791
That's because women are shallow. You're likely bisexual if you are still sexually attracted to them.

>>8630647
I'm not a TERF, I'm a gay guy who sees delusions for what they are.

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>>8630677
Ah, an "ally". Keep trying to dictate what I can and can't do in the bedroom, I will continue triggering you with my very existence! And I will continue to drink alcohol and enjoy my life while you, ah, 'vent' about how people are doing things you don't like in real life. It's sooo hard, isn't it bby? Let me just coddle you!

>>8630703
You can have anal sex, just know that you are a male and will always be one no matter what chemicals or knives you harm yourself with.

>>8630703
You can have anal sex, just know that you are a male and will always be one no matter what chemicals or knives you harm yourself with.

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>>8630712
I am in fact a cis gay man. I just love people who get triggered for their meme movement, muppets like you. You see them all over 4chan these days useful idiots abound.

Continue telling me I shouldn't drink whiskey, girls. It's all the same. Can't do whatever you want with your body, can't love whoever you want, can't drink alcohol. Except you don't even have God behind it anymore, just your own Freudian delusions. It's sad! It's just sad.

>>8630677
Why does someone living their own life trigger you so much, snowflake?

>>8630749
Just makes me sad to see people self harm and others enable them.

>>8630748
/r/IAmVerySmart

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>>8630755
Ah right, the "they're only hurting themselves" game. Apparently you don't even have the RIGHT to hurt yourself anymore, nope anonymous feminist on 4chan is dictator for your bodily health.

Just like the temperance girls who preached about the evils of the devil's liquor, the TERFs sell themselves as benefactors of society when in fact just like that time period of the early 1900's they are its poison. Listening to them last time resulted in Prohibition and the deaths of endless civilians.

>>8630764
I think if more trannies agreed to take antipsychotics to treat their psychosis, we could reduce the incidence of self harm in the gay community.

>>8630755
Gender dysphoria is medically recognized and transition is an evidence based treatment. You can call it whatever you want, but science would disagree with your assessment.

>>8630767
Proven not to work. Next.

>>8630769
It is still self harm and enabling delusions even if people say they think transitioning is better than suicide. They are saying you NEED to take drugs or get cut up electively or you will kill yourself. They are not saying hormones and cosmetic surgery are good for you.

I doubt most trannies would listen to a psychiatrist that told them to take antipsychotics and engage in talk therapy, not to transition.

>>8630771
[citation needed]

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>>8630767
TERFs advocating literal chemical lobotomies when people behave in ways they dislike. Typical barbarism, again the guise of "we're only helping society!"

You help nothing but yourself, and when your actions have resulted in undue suffering just like your foremothers you will know that lesson to be truth. But only then, and it will take much more time for your 4chan-eroded conscience to hammer in that lesson.

>>8630780
Antipsychotics are not chemical lobotomies any more than hormones are. They may not feel as nice but they actually fix the problem.

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>>8630783
They are chemical lobotomies and this has been known as fact to society since the 1950's. Continue telling yourself you are "just helping society". When will the TERF equivalent to the St Valentine's Massacre be? I cannot say, but the day of reckoning will come and you will realize your folly.

MY BODY MY RULES

You're not born with a developed sexuality, obviously.

When people say "I was born gay" they mean "I did not choose to be gay" which is absolutely true. You cannot make someone gay or straight

>>8626922

this is me to a tee, always liked being around other guys and thought they had nice faces before i knew about sex, sexuality etc and thought that was normal

around 12 i realised that i didn't really know much about girls and didn't know what i was supposed to like about them, i didn't really understand what guys saw in them. the penny dropped when i realised that i knew exactly what i liked about the males i fancied, and when i knew what gay was my stomach dropped and i cried bc i knew i was a faggot

i repressed with radical christianity but prayer hasn't made me straight yet (i'm 19 now) so contemplating coming out

i had a normal nuclear family, no trauma or molestation and still have a great relationship with my father so i side more heavily with the 'nature' arguments, i'm a normal guy with some spazzed attraction compass, that's all

>>8630774
>>8630775
http://genderanalysis.net/2016/12/myth-pimozide-and-gender-dysphoria-gender-analysis/
yes, it's a blog, yes, it's Zinnia, but the thought process is good and it references the relevant studies that demonstrate the efficacy of treating gender dysphoria. the case with pimozide was a complex case where the patient had a psychosis centered around transition, not because they actually wanted to, and it has been widely misinterpreted

There is a reason any psychologist worth their salt recommends transition to treat gender dysphoria - and no, it's not political correctness.

Kids aren't gay or straight until they've developed a sexual attraction to either the same or opposite sex. So no

>>8630808
There's more to antipsychotics than pimozide. Do you have any evidence they do not reduce body dysmorphia in general?

>>8630811
body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria are different things entirely
although I don't know why I'm even trying, it's obvious no matter what I say you won't believe it. You already have your conclusion, that transitioning is wrong, and will argue whatever you have to in order to support it.

>>8630816
Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

>>8630816
no they are not, gender "dysphoria" is gender-specific body dysn

>>8630822
dysmorphia*

>>8630822
See what I mean? He's already trying to reinvent le paradigm when awful reality bites him in le face. No arguments, no citations. A blank statement that means nothing and say nothing. Just a retard spewing.

>>8630827
all of it is social construction anyways. psychiatry is not a falsifiable concept. Transitioning is only encouraged as a means to reduce suicide, not for intrinsic benefits.

>>8630833
Now he's backpedaling and claiming all reality is a lie in his post-modern mess of a mindset he's built for himself. SAD!

Keep telling yourself "I'm right, I'm right, I know I'm right!" even after you've long run out of reasons why.

>>8630839
Trannies have severe body dysmorphia. It doesn't matter that it is gender-related. The issue is they see their bodies and feel they "need" to look differently and are happy for any differences, no matter if the response they get is positive or negative from others because they are operating out of pathological narcissism.

>>8630843
If I say I need to cut my legs off to feel better, should surgeons help me?

If you want to castrate yourself voluntarily, that is fine, but the rest is enabling delusions.

>>8630833
I suppose you're smarter then the whole field of psychology, then? Fine. We have a strong evidence based treatment in transitioning, but if you think you know something better, go prove it. That's how medicine works.

>>8630843
Ah, now he's pulled out his book on Freud and he's claiming an entire subset of the population has this meme condition he's read about. A classic! Keep telling yourself everyone who disagrees with you is just "wrong", son. They're all evil schizos, or narcissists, or borderlines, or psychopaths, or histrionics, or bipolar aliens dwelling on the planet Zark!!! RUN!

lol

>>8630843
the armchair psychology is strong in this one

>>8630855
Evidence is that it reduces suicide, not that it helps anyone. Genital mutilation should not be encouraged. I know most don't go through with that part but it is horrifying and risky.

>>8630860
>literally people not killing themselves less
>not a benefit

How much bullshit are you sniffing? LOL

>>8630861
It is but telling people to take drugs that make them feel good and get surgeries to look pretty is not a solution to delusions.

>>8630870
>It is

So you just agreed it helps people. We're done here. :)

>>8630874
Not as much as taking antipsychotics and talk therapy which do not carry the risks of surgery and hormones and actually can reduce the dysmorphic feelings.

>>8630878
Chemical lobotomies are a solution to nothing. The couch can be used with transitioning too, and is commonly done. Continue advocating brain damage for the people you dislike.

>>8630884
Or to gently but firmly remind gay males that seducing straight males is not socially acceptable behavior and may result in consequences.

>>8630878
there. is. no. proof. for. this.

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>>8630885
Ah, now the autist admits his real motivation! His narcissistic savior complex. He wants to "save straight men" by "punishing the evil mentally ill freaks" through lobotomies.

Really, this conversation has revealed much about you and the typical TERF "my feelings about society matter more than your bodily rights" mindset.

>>8630887
Because oy vey trannies will shut it down if anyone actually offers them fixes that don't result in them looking "prettier" or adjusting their looks to be able to deceive straight men better.

>>8630891
>out and out using /pol/ slang

Are you even trying to hide anymore lol? this is like the snake offering you a cyanide filled apple and saying it's for your benefit, just eat it, it's okay don't worry!

Continue trying to spin the insane narrative that chemical lobotomies are for your benefit whilst at the same time claiming it's a punishment for "seducing straight men" like what the fuck are you even on anymore lmao

>>8630895
Are you denying that some "transgender women" are gay men attempting to seduce heterosexual men into sexual relationships?

>>8630901
How do you expect people to fall for something that you fully admit is a punishment?

I'm sorry, but I don't go for punishments from people who can't even enforce them.

>>8630905
It isn't punishment. The point is to limit body dysmorphia rather than indulge a cosmetic surgery addiction. Can you not admit that is healthy? If trannies were not crying about suicide all the time and threatening their caregivers with it than said caregivers could actually focus on reducing the body dysmorphia to a more manageable level with talk therapy and existing psych meds. There is no other comparable condition for which pleasurable (testosterone is a euphoriant to some) medications and cosmetic surgery are considered "treatment" to a patient-defined endpoint.

>>8623632
I think a large portion is genetic but it's also dependent on many other factors.

>>8630910
>It isn't punishment.

>>8630885
>to gently but firmly remind gay males that seducing straight males is not socially acceptable behavior

Sounds like punishment to me! Or are you backpedaling again?

"A punishment is the imposition of an undesirable or unpleasant outcome upon a group or individual, meted out by an authority—in contexts ranging from child discipline to criminal law—as a response and deterrent to a particular action or behaviour that is deemed undesirable or unacceptable."

Chemical lobotomization isn't desirable to 99% of the population so that falls under "punishment" in my book!

>>8630922
Discouraging antisocial behavior is not a punishment.

>>8630925
That is the very definition of the word punishment, and many antisocials are in fact punished through prison time.

Either way, you're just splitting hairs by this point and you fully admit this is not for the transgender's benefit but to "show them a lesson" - thus your agenda is marred from confirmation bias from the outside and nothing that deviates from your final goal of "giving the trannies a lesson" will impact your mind in any way.

Thus, it is impossible and foolhardy to ever argue with you on a serious level.

>>8630930
Telling someone not to prey on vulnerable straight/closeted males is not a punishment lol it is helping the person set boundaries.

>>8630934
Savior complex rises again - note the word "vulnerable". He's only "protecting people". Through hurting others, of course, but don't let that stop you. He's only "helping set boundaries". Literally, bullying people "into shape" like a teenager. None of this betrays the fact that chemical lobotomies solve nothing, he only wants to chemically lobotomize because he wants *his* society to be in a certain way and that involves destroying the brains of those he dislikes. Note the complete lack of empathy in all of this.

>>8630941
Are you saying homosexuals should be encouraged to pursue relationships with heterosexual males as long as they are convinced they are female mentally?

>>8630942
Are you admitting that this entire scheme of AGP CAN BE CURED! ANTIPSYCHOTICS ARE THE CURE! was in fact an elaborate ruse to convince desperate trannies to lobotomize themselves?

>>8630945
I don't know about AGP but for HSTS antipsychotics and talk therapy likely go a long way to reducing delusions and body dysmorphia. To say that people are not experiencing delusions when they are is cruel.

>>8630955
Another diagnosis to add to the list of the things the armchair has branded upon people he's never met - now it's delusional disorder. Next it'll be cycloid psychosis or some wacked out bullshit pulled from the historical records.

Note again the complete lack of citations, arguments, or justifications. Just a blank statement. He is really trying to reinforce these ideas in his own head rather than the "audience", I suspect, or he just can't realize that nobody is going to be swayed by this lack of discourse.

>>8630960
Nah they told me when people are experiencing delusions that telling them they are not will do nothing to help. I am simply stating reality for anyone who is not psychotic out there.

>>8630963
Note the incorrect usage of the word "psychotic" despite the fact that nobody in this conversation has displayed any evidence of Schneiderian first-rank symptoms. It is common for the armchair to 'slip' between slang and jargon because he can't hide the fact that he is just a layman.

>>8630970
>Schneiderian first-rank symptoms
>Delusional perception (linking a normal sensory perception to a bizarre conclusion, e.g. seeing an aeroplane means the patient is the president)

A gay guy is attracted to me therefore he is straight and I am a woman.

>>8623632

I personally believe I was always gay or bi at least I just didn't difference between genders but my father set me straight and then I grow up starting hating him and now I remember my gay feelings.

>>8630998
Note the incorrect assumption that delusions alone are enough to qualify for schizophrenia. No, we addressed this with "delusional disorder" I'm afraid but the armchair cannot really understand what these diagnostics means in reality so he just uses his slang logic to intrude onto medical science, using post-modernist arguments as his guide.

Don't feed the stormfag

>>8631020
I didn't say schizophrenic, just displaying psychotic features.

>>8631043
"Displaying psychotic features" means nothing and says nothing. Anyone qualifies for psychosis with this logic, every last person on Earth. It is the last resort of the armchair to fall to the spectrum conceptualization when he cannot prove a prior and stronger claim... They're not *actually* psychotic! They're just *displaying psychotic features* yeah! A subtle form of goalpost shifting.

>>8631051
You are a gay guy. Straight guys are not attracted to you, and you are not a woman. Believing otherwise, is an inherent falsehood.

>>8623632

People aren't "born gay" insofar as homosexuality has both environmental as well as genetic contributing factors. But like....you are born to be predisposed to being gay.