Serious question, why do people throw around the "transgenderism

It goes with the assumption that having a mental illness means you're wrong or irrational, so if being trans is a mental illness, in their minds it means that being trans is wrong or irrational.
Basic suburban white tier perception.

>>8620255
Fuck 'em then.

>>8620243
What's really weird to me is that the phrase "transgender-ISM," like being trans is both a diagnosable failure of perception and also kind of sinister fringe political movement

>>8620518
I was talking to a guy earlier. After he gave me the "mental illness" line and I asked him to show me where it was on the DSM-5, he said something along the lines of "Fuck your appeal to authority, it's pure ideology."

>>8620243
I don't know but it's annoying because I see it so often.

>trans is mental illness
>muh pimozide
>mentally ill can decide to chop dick and grow tits but man can't chop arm off without being mentally ill

I think it's just people who make zero effort to actually know anything about being trans.

>>8620243
Because if you people are gonna go with the our brains are actually different thing, than we can reasonably say you have a mental disorder that needs to be fixed.

>>8620607
>I think it's just people who make zero effort to actually know anything about being trans.
Definitely

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>>8620609
>you people
Why are you here?

>>8620614
To answer a serious question.

>>8620243
Your psyche being female and your body being male (or vice versa) is not the state of a mentally healthy person. Clearly something went wrong and you will live to see the day where meds can rewire your brain into your biological sex.

Everything before that is just a crutch.

>>8620609
That implies you people can have authority over this.

>>8620624
> can rewire your brain
I can't wait for government-mandated treatment to fix conservatism.

>>8620591
Yeah, I haven't thought about that kinda thing in some time but it's true, they just go back and forth to whatever's most convenient, mental illness or ideology.

Another example would be that even though they believe that gender dysphoria is real, they completely reject any evidence that transitioning is an appropriate treatment because it doesn't line up with their understanding of how mental illness is treated.

>>8620243
>"transgenderism is a mental illness"

It ticks many boxes and is also co-morbid with depression, suicide, anxiety, OCD, etc.

The whole female brain in male body is non-sense. It has not been proven. But still they mutilate their bodies in order trick other people to approach them as the opposite sex.

Trans mtf don't behave like women, they just imitate stereotypical behavior.

>>8620646
>muh mutilation
>muh trans people are all stereotypes

Confirmed for not knowing anything about trans people and MtFs in boymode and FtM's being gender non-conforming all over the place.

>>8620646
>act like a man, program

Reee you'r just a man in a dress

>act like a woman, flower arrange

Reeee stereotype imitating faggot!

>>8620243
It's a way to invalidate the experiences of trans people. Nothing more, nothing less. The people who say that don't actually care, even though they claim to. The fact that they use mental illness as an insult shows their true colors. These are the same people who talk about how all mtfs are fetishists or try to trick lesbians into corrective rape.

What they want is for you to doubt your reality.

>>8620761

I don't get this fucking obsession with idea that transwomen mutilate themselves.

Why do they keep using it ? It's so retarded.

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>>8620633
I think it's pretty telling that the DSM-V is so monolithic and lists things like parasomnias and sexual dysfunction with their substantial variety in sub-categories but gender dysphoria is a beast of it's own and entirely segregated from classification in other sections.

While other mental illnesses have a vague title followed by different types of that disorder underneath the gender dysphoria section just sets out criteria for children, adults, and other specified / unspecified GD. Shit like 'substance abuse' goes from alcohol to phencyclidine to inhalant abuse and everywhere in between. I sort of take it as an implicit 'this condition is unlike anything else we've ever seen' that is fitting of both it's nature, effect, and treatment.

Painting GD with broad strokes as a mental illness simply doesn't work and pretty obviously outs anyone who approaches the issue from a 'tranies ar icky! give them anti-psychotics and ECT!' perspective. Not that it matters if they read the DSM-V or not since the same organization that approved their bad psychology decades ago is suddenly now a vast medical conspiracy controlled by 0.6% of the population. They can ignore the conspiracy's treatment of GD but then advocate for a diagnosis of another illness by the same conspiracy. Pretty kekworthy if it wasn't so sad that people become so invested in their hatred and anti-trans views they become that self-unaware. How anyone can approach the topic of transitioning with anything more than pure curiosity is beyond me. Trans people are basically the early version of transhumanists.

>>8620803
because muh "I don't understand it so it's inherently wrong" or muh "It's 'unnatural' so it's inherently wrong"

>>8620803
>penis is man pride
>man with smaller or crooked penis is inferior man
>man who cuts off his penis is insane

>>8620243
because like mental illness it fucks you and ends ups killing you.

>>8620803
>I don't get this fucking obsession with idea that transwomen mutilate themselves.

>Have a perfectly functioning male reproductive organ. Cut it off for a non-fuctional (((neo)))-vagina.
>not mutilation.

>>8620819
> a perfectly functioning male reproductive organ
HRT takes care of that.

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SuIcIdE rAtE iS 40 pEr CeNt

>>8620824
agreed, fuck the suicide narrative. telling trans people we are doomed to suicide helps no one

>>8620810

There has to be more to it than that.

>penis is man pride
>man with smaller or crooked penis is inferior man
>man who cuts off his penis is insane

Oh. Penises alone make men ? So men who lose their penises by accidents are not men anymore ?

Also why always this wording ? "Cut off"
Srs isn't "cutting off" a penis.

It's a surgery that attempts, with varying degrees of success, to turn an organ into a different organ.
It isn't mutilation any more than having a doctor cut you open to reinforce a broken bone with a steel rod is mutilation.

Sure you can argue against srs, because it's very imperfect, and can be botched, and doctors who are good at it are very rare and expensive.

It isn't any more of a mutilation than having wisdom teeth removed. Than having the appendix removed. Why don't you guys go pester people who got theirs removed ?

>>8620819

You know, srs isn't that common. Lots of transgirls don't go for it.

>Have a perfectly functioning male reproductive organ. Cut it off for a non-fuctional (((neo)))-vagina.

What if it's functional ? It doesn't make a difference. Some girls can't deal with having one. Some others can. It depends on how they feel like it hinders their identity.

>not mutilation.

No, it's not mutilation. You're just using that wording to make it sound wholly detrimental and useless. And also for shock value. And out of retardation.

>>8620833
>It's a surgery that attempts, with varying degrees of success, to turn an organ into a different organ.
No, it's an attempt with varying degrees of success to turn an organ into an approximation of a different organ.

If it were actually an attempt to turn male genitals into female, then the degrees of success wouldn't be variable.

>>8620842

I'll give you that. But the approximations made by the best are very good. Sure they can't bear children. Who gives a shit ?

What people are willing to sacrifice, or even get rid of because they don't need it, isn't your business. It doesn't hurt anyone. I don't see the point of picking on us for it.

>>8620830
I just tell them that I will live longer than them. The idea that we refuse to die seems to annoy them immensely.

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>>8620803
There was one reddit post about a FtM university teacher who did an in-class experiment to teach her students about invalidation and gender. You should read about it though it lacks a lot of academic rigor and isn't a real study.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/5ukvdt/how_cisgender_students_reacted_to_being_treated/

One of the things she noticed was that a lot of men explained their identity in terms of 'I have a penis so I am a man' which is intuitively a reaaaaally shitty argument. It didn't really happen with the trans or cis female students so it could imply men view their genitals as more part of their identity than women do. Women generally approached it from a gender roles / socialization perspective although explaining their gender with their genitals wasn't uncommon.

I think most of the people who use the 'muh transwomen muh cock mutilation' argument are men. Doing things to their cock is probably far too sensitive a topic to deal with and if the above experiment indicates genitals are more fundamentally important to a perception of gender with AMAB's then men might just have hangups that such an """""""""""integral part""""""""""" of who they are can be turned into a vagina for slightly under 20k or free if it's covered by insurance.

Well, possibly all of the above alongside the typical 'gross!' and people legitimately believing surgery is mutilation for genitals but life-saving for a gastric-band.

>>8620852
>But the approximations made by the best are very good.
By what standard?

I hate no straight people. They should all die

>>8620860

I see.
I'm certainly no sjw, but I find it very shallow to anchor your whole identity around your genitals. It's flimsy.

>>8620863

The satisfaction of the girls who had it done, probably. From what I've seen, they can look and feel quite like the real thing, and are almost sexually functional...if you forget about lubrication.

It isn't perfect, but for some girl, that's the best we can have currently. Sometimes, you just can't bear to have a penis. Dysphoria isn't the same for everyone.

I can live with mine, but even then, I'd gladly replace it if I could. I don't need a penis in the slightest, and it's inconvenient for me, too.

>>8620860
>One of the things she noticed was that a lot of men explained their identity in terms of 'I have a penis so I am a man' which is intuitively a reaaaaally shitty argument.
But they don't normally think of their gender as something they need to defend or argue for. They just see it as a biological fact about themselves. To them it's like being asked to prove their hair or eye color.

>>8620860
That was a fantastic read, thank you.

>>8620869
>The satisfaction of the girls who had it done, probably.
That doesn't make it a good approximation. An approximation can be awful and still satisfactory.

Well, it is a mental disorders. People just attach baggage to it due to mental heatlh stigma.

>>8620912

Alright, but by what standards do YOU judge the approximation, then ? What if you see one that you think is a good approximation ?

>>8620255
>Basic suburban white tier perception.
Sure, let's be racist now.
Whitey is holding me back.

>>8620927
A good approximation is one which functions as what it's approximating. What SRS genitals function as cis female ones? Ignoring fertility here.

>>8620930
Are you white? Yes or no.

>>8620943

>A good approximation is one which functions as what it's approximating

That's in your opinion. Different people have different standards, and I don't think there's a committee for defining which standards should be applied and how when it comes to judging srs vaginas.

I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make, is, sorry...

Yes, SRS vaginas are far, far from perfect and even farther from being functional. But what matters is whether they help the girls who get them feel more appropriate, because really, that's all it is about. I'm sure nobody has any delusions of getting a perfect functional vagina.

>>8620966
>SRS vaginas are far, far from perfect and even farther from being functional.
THEN THEY AREN'T APPROXIMATIONS

>>8620973

You, do you even know the meaning of the word approximation ?

Regardless, what's even your point anyway ?

>>8620981
>You, do you even know the meaning of the word approximation ?
>>8620943

>Regardless, what's even your point anyway ?
>>8620842

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>>8621011

I'd argue over the semantics, but...I fail to see the interest...

>>8620629
What in any of that had to do with conservatism? Just because conservatives don't agree with transgenderism doesn't mean that anyone that does is a conservative.

>>8621136
I believe they're mocking the conservatives who seriously believe the government is going to do anything to "fix transgenders" or whatever.

>>8621136
If we could rewire brain at will, we should put it to a good use, and remove the cancer of society.

Nice, guys.

>>8620629
>person born with one arm
>brain expects two arms
>NO PROSTEHTIC ARMS REWIRE DAH BRAIN TO EXEPCT ONE ARM
wew lad people actually believe this

>>8622073
Interesting analogy, because no phantom limb is anything like as dysphoric as trans people. We don't see amputees desperately trying to tell themselves they have all their limbs or being as offended at the idea they don't have four limbs as trans people are at the idea they aren't their new sex.

Amputees, rather than people born with missing limbs, actually have experience of being "post-op" too!

Yet being trans is apparently caused by the same body map as phantom limb effects.

Hm?

>>8620860
This image bothers me because it's well drawn but then the artist apparently forgot that they were drawing teeth and gave Kaede's top row of teeth the same color as her lips, which results in her looking like she has very bad dental hygiene.

>>8620860
>Lady dick
She knows about the feminine benis.

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>>8623179
Who doesn't? Feminine benis is the best benis.

>>8620824
>suicide rate is 40 percent
>40 percent attempt suicide
>40 percent consider suicide

Serious here, which one actually is it?

>>8620243
People don't understand it, so they assert that it's a delusion and nothing to take seriously.

>>8623263
It's 40% attempt rate. Then there are criticisms it should be higher because some attempts are unreported.

Drops to negligible levels if the trans person has supportive family. I've heard the statistic has changed recently so I'm curious to see if it's still 40%.

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>>8620860
>she

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>>8623284
Yeah whoops. I mean 'he.'

>>8623284
...Really? On /lgbt/?

And no, organism self designated "girl" cant. Girl essence not good enough. Like all terran essence. Prefer murky strings.

>>8624961
>all terran essence
So we're Genomes now?

>>8622211
The top row of teeth are just hidden behind the lip i think.

>>8623263
>>8623280
The attempt rate statistic I think you guys are referring to also includes all attempts over the trans person's lifetime, not just post-transition.

>>8622085
>Yet being trans is apparently caused by the same body map as phantom limb effects.

No. It's caused by the same concept (an incorrect body map) but it isn't caused by the same bodymap.

A transwoman has the brain of a woman and that brain freaks out when their body doesn't match up with their expected body plan (having breasts, a vagina, female curves, a female voice, etc)

An amputee has the brain of a man with 2 arms and that brain freaks out when their body doesn't match up with their expected body plan (having 2 arms)

>>8625258
>A transwoman has the brain of a woman

Not true, it just believes it is a woman.

>>8625273
There are tons of studies on trans neurology.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0

Do some research before you spout bullshit.

>>8625291

If you pump yourself up with female hormones, there are going to be some structural changes in the brain. But it is still a male brain on oestrogen.

>>8625302
C I T A T I O N
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>>8625302
Most of these studies control for hormone use by either having pre-hrt trans subjects or comparing trans subjects on hrt to cis controls who have experienced hormonal reversal.