Here are my views on trans. Would this be considered justifiable

Being trans is a histrionic identity complex, ropes of whips is the only way to fix these "people"

Transition isn't "accommodation", transition is simply the best solution that exists. Until a better option exists, transition is the correct way to treat gender dysphoria.

In medicine you don't exclusively focus on a cure and ignore all else, you find the best way to improve people's lives all things considered.

>>8551772
Bring back the gallows!

>>8551772
>transition is the correct way to treat gender dysphoria

But the issue isn't inherently gender dysphoria, right? To put it in terms that the concepts were first introduced to me in: The issue is that it's a woman trapped in a man's body, not that they're distressed about it. Right? If so, the issue to contend is transsexualism, not simply dysphoria.

Granted they don't have a brain that opposes its body in regard to gender but have something unique to itself:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

I suppose our disagreement on whether it is accommodation or not depends on what we think the inherent issue is.

>>8551787
transsexualism is not a disorder, gender dysphoria is

>>8551787
The issue is a disconnect between the body and the mind which leads to lifelong distress and suffering if not corrected in some capacity.

>>8551795
I feel that's some equivocation on your end. I'm referring to transsexualism as a physical disorder, not a mental disorder. Gender Dysphoria is a mental disorder.

>>8551796
Right. That seems to agree with what I said, yes?

>>8551762
maybe we should feed them pimozide and inject mtf's with testosterone to remedy their transsexualism hehehehe

>>8551803
No because you interpret it differently.

Transition is not an "accommodation". If the solution to the disconnect between mind and body is to make the mind and body match, changing the brain and changing the body are both equally valid options. In reality our ability to change the body to match the mind is suboptimal, but that is still a valid option when the ability to change the mind to match the body simply doesn't exist at all.

>>8551762
>Being trans is a physical disorder stemming from the brain, rather than a psychological issue, that needs medical attention before it develops a psychological issue as well
Other way around.

>>8551809
>changing the brain and changing the body are both equally valid options.

Well I'd question this on a few grounds:

The disconnect is not a mutual issue of the brain and the rest of the body but specifically the brain. The body functions fine and the actual issue lies in the brain's ability to adapt to the body it has rather than a mutual disconnect. This is more justifiable given that the body is gendered male or female and the brain, despite common understand, is not. It is a unique thing to itself (as expressed in my previous link) and so it doesn't actually 'match' at all to transition.

If the issue is in the brain then trying to get the body to fit the disordered brain (bear with me on this term, it's late here) rather than fixing the disorder is inherently accommodation rather than treatment.

>>8551828
Disconnect between body and mind leads to gender dysphoria (suffering).

Change body to match mind, dysphoria is gone, there is no more suffering, the issue has been treated. Change mind to match body, same outcome.

It's valid whether you like it or not.

>The body functions fine and the actual issue lies in the brain's ability to adapt to the body it has rather than a mutual disconnect.
You are wrong. The body and mind are one system that work together. The brain doesn't 'adapt' to the body in regards to gender identity, your brain simply has a fixed gender identity.

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ur gay

>>8551762
>babby's first hypothesis on how to cure trans people

Doesn't work lmao.

>>8551840
>You are wrong. The body and mind are one system that work together. The brain doesn't 'adapt' to the body in regards to gender identity, your brain simply has a fixed gender identity.

You misunderstand me. Perhaps "adapt" was the wrong word to express what I was trying to say. I mean to say that the issue lies in the brain's wiring rather than mutually in the brain and body. I don't mean 'adapt' in the sense that it can change.

The rest seems to just repeat what was said in >>8551809 without addressing my criticisms.


>>8551848
I don't provide any cures so I'm not sure what you're even saying.

>>8551859
The brain being wired differently is not inherently a problem. It's a problem if it leads to gender dysphoria and if that gender dysphoria is removed, there is no longer a problem.

>>8551859
>work should be done to resolve it as a physical issue in the brain - everything else is trying to accommodate the problem rather than fixing it
>not proposing a cure

ur gay

>>8551866
Do you think "how about we resolve this nasty cut" as 'proposing a cure' for a nasty cut?

>>8551863
>The brain being wired differently is not inherently a problem.

So I'll move back to my previous question >>8551787

>The issue is that it's a woman trapped in a man's body, not that they're distressed about it. Right?

>>8551878
How many fucking times do I need to explain to you that the problem is gender dysphoria

>>8551878
Who the fuck says 'let's resolve this nasty cut?' Holy fuck are you an ayy lmao learning English for the first time?

It comes down to philosophy:

>Am "I" my mind, or am "I" my body?

Given that I consider my sense of self to be arisen from my mind (from my brain) with the body as little more than a vessel that transports my brain around as an organic jar... to me changes to my brain/mind are abhorrant, but changes to the body are for social ease and aesthetic.

Meaning changes to bodies just make more sense than attempting to change the mind/person, which is an assault unto them.

I would sooner be a brain in a jar than have my brain changed.

>>8551881

Until I get it because it seems you're giving conflicting information. Correct me if I'm wrong. See >>8551796

>The issue is a disconnect between the body and the mind which leads to lifelong distress and suffering if not corrected in some capacity.


I read this sentence as "the issue is transsexualism which leads to gender dysphoria if not corrected". Basically that transsexualism is the issue and needs to be corrected or else it would lead to dysphoria. This seems to conflict your claim >>8551881 that the problem is the dysphoria.

>>8551893
Transsexualism leads to dysphoria.

Transsexual is not an issue. Dysphoria is.

>>8551889
This. I'm not abandoning my sexuality just because I have the wrong body for it.

>>8551893
>>8551896
i literally said this in the fifth post of this very thread
i don't understand how it can be so hard to understand that gender dysphoria is the issue and any way ot alleviate it is treatment

>>8551889
As the mind arises from the body (body including the brain) and works as a system with all else in the body. I'm not sure how you could say that what "I" am is not the whole self. Further, I'm sure there is much that can be done to the body that can be considered an assault to the individual. But even if I were to accept your view and you were simply your consciousness I don't believe you have an argument there:

The mind arises from the brain and has parts and elements to it with function akin to the body. There's no reason to think the brain cannot have physiological issues with its parts and that it is different from the body whatsoever. Even if it was not considered part of the body, transsexualism would still stem from the brain's physiology rather than the body's or any mutual claim. The body functions fine.
>>8551896
Okay. How is it not an issue if it leads to dysphoria? It's difficult for me to wrap my head around something causing distress not being the issue but the distress is.
And please explain the comment about conflicting comments. I don't want to be confused about your overall comments and I currently am.

>>8551919
>i literally said this in the fifth post of this very thread

And I responded to it and didn't get a response about it.

>>8551787
> To put it in terms that the concepts were first introduced to me in: The issue is that it's a woman trapped in a man's body, not that they're distressed about it. Right?

False.

>>8552120
Okay, redirect to the second response in >>8551945 then.

>>8552125
You are inappropriately conflating "mind" and "brain." It does not work that way.

Besides, concepts such as "healthy," "functional," and "issues" are not objective.

>>8552142
That's the first response.
I said redirect to the SECOND response. The response in >>8551945 to >>8551896

>>8552145
Being trans does not necessarily cause dysphoria, and a lot of trans people stop being dysphoric once they get the treatment they want.

>>8552150
That doesn't seem to answer any of the questions or comments I had and disagrees with the views set up about transsexualism's relation to dysphoria in this thread already.

>>8552161
>disagrees with the views set up about transsexualism's relation to dysphoria in this thread already.

Yeah because those views are wrong. In fact, trans teenagers who get treatment early enough and are surrounded by an accepting environment develop dysphoria comparable to that of cis people.

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>>8551762
are you retarded?

>>8551762
Physical, yeah.
But developmental as well. How can you fix an issue that's already past any possible time to be adressed? There's no hormonal therapy for children during pregnancy, so how would that work?

We're stuck with what we have, and in it, we make the best possible decisions - SRS, HRT, etc. And that's the best option.

>>8552048
thats because the other anon already spent a lot of time and posts trying to explain it to you and you still dont get it
youre a little dense arent you

>>8551945
Living leads to dying. Living is not a problem just because it leads to a problem (death).

You can be a transsexual and be a healthy and well adjusted person, thus transsexualism by itself is a not a problem.

>>8551762
>non-binary systems
Enbies aren't trannies tho???
leave this board and don't come back

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>>8552203
Are you?

God damn OP, I was gonna come in here and give you shit about how your idea amounts to "we should treat dysphoria because trans ppl r gross" but now I'm like actually astounded. You are like dumb as a fucking brick. Like I genuinely hope you just don't speak English and are having a hard time grasping the language, because if that's not the case then you're actually just so fucking stupid. Like I was kinda amused at first but now I'm just like struggling to wrap my head around your absolutely idiocy. I'm kinda impressed.

>>8553053
Whoops meant to say
>"we should treat dysphoria without transition because trans ppl r gross"

>>8551762
Physical transition is far from a harsh solution. The brain is extremely complicated and we barely know anything about it at all. We don't even know why trannies happen, just the best way to treat it. With our current knowledge of the brain, if you want to cut out the certain parts you'd need to cut out a lot other random stuff as well. If you somehow made a tranny not a tranny, they'd be a different person. Changing the body when it is an option is the morally right thing to do

>>8551762
You're on the right track, but the brain is a lot harder to change than the body. Conversion therapy is technically possible, but there are far too many variables to be effective. For myself, the idea of being feminine is intrinsic to nearly all my higher thoughts. To undo that would be to destroy much of my identity, which is possible and may fetch a happy end result, but I believe it to be unethical regardless. HRT is a pretty effective treatment for gender dysphoria, those who claim it isn't are either not gender dysphoric or are afflicted by another issue

>>8553061

>You don't allow people who want to die to commit suicide.

But it is still not a female brain in a male body and societies usually restrict the decisions mentally ill people can make, for their own good and for the rest of society.

>>8553096
Mental illness is not suggested nor proven (don't give me the "cut muh dick off" bs either). It's an identity choice that stems from a combination of genetics and environmental factors. The slippery slope would extend to treating gays as mentally ill as well.

You'll have to do better than that, HRT is the main method of treatment around the world for good reason

>>8553053
Yeah desu. It's pretty cringe in an impressively sad way and not a hilarious way.

>>8553112
Choice was not supposed to be in that. It is an identity, nobody chooses to be gender dysphoric

>>8553096
>societies usually restrict the decisions mentally ill people can make

Not really bub. Most mentally ill people are free to make all the choices that the non-mentally-ill make. Being mentally ill might lead to them being more inclined to do something society doesn't allow people to, say murder or suicide or whatever, but those same restrictions apply to the non-mentally ill as well.

>>8553096
Not really. The most common test is whether a person knows the nature and effect of what they're doing (which is the basis of informed consent and the default gatekeeping process anyway). Most of the time mental illness doesn't impair people to an extent where their choices have to be limited even slightly.

>>8553120
>gender dysphoric

A condition that almost always is comorbid with tons of other Cluster B personality disorders.
Trans is probably just an expression of them.

I don't think that HRT is the best method, but since we live in a politically correct world, where suggesting otherwise could end your career as a therapist. Everybody plays along while the shekels keep flowing.

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>>8553140
>It's a 'medical conspiracy and political correctness to potentially give 0.6% of the population hormones they mostly have to subsidise themselves anyway' episode

>>8553140
>I don't agree with this treatment, but since medical professionals who know better than I think it's the proper treatment we do it anyway

Oh woe is you. What a sad stupid world we live in.