>be a guy in women and gender studies >clearly feminine

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>professor argues that women can't be sexist
>I tell her that isn't true
>mini-debate ensues and I look like a sexist asswipe
>turns out she meant women can't systematically discriminate against men, I feel like a retard and apologize for 5 minutes at the end of class
>next day she actually no joke word for word says "women can be sexist too!"

>>8532716
This could all be avoided if you didn't take women's studies, anon

>>8532718
Great show

>>8532737
I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"

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>be a guy in women and gender studies
Why in the flying fuck would you do this you retard

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>>8532759
>>8532746

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>Did a Women and Gender studies topic
>Taught by my criminal law associate professor who is a specialist on rape law
>Learn the history of abortion, rape, women's reproductive rights, and a breakdown of offenses per gender as well as difference in prison experiences
>No SJW shit apart from the other topic teacher making some weird comment about the depiction of sperm being so brave in venturing through the perilous womb being patriarchy

It HEAVILY depends on your teacher. Either the comfiest topic ever or the most SJW ridden bullshit you'll go through.

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>>8532799
I'm glad that they made it easy and digestible for you.

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>>8532808
Easy distinctions, you hon. The topic was far better than stalking girls at Uni.

>>8532746
What scenario did you conceive in your head where this is likely to happen?

>Start a queer studies course
>Taught by a non-binary-but-prefers-masculine-pronouns Asian chick
>Look at the syllabus
>All trans shit
>Weird autistic gay guy in class starts hitting on me

Dropped that 3 classes in.

>>8532716
hey it's almost like the feeling you get when you're not the majority with most of the power in a situation for once

>>8532799
>weird comment about the depiction of sperm being so brave in venturing through the perilous womb being patriarchy
kind of makes sense when I think about it, those sex ed videos have a very male perspective, like the sperm is a group of characters and the one that gets the egg is the main character, and the egg is just some mcguffin or prize to be won. people always say you were the fastest sperm and never you were the... egg that... happened to be there... that day... ok I guess that's not as glamorous.

>>8532875
>Minorities are constantly being treated like shit by everyone around them
Lol, sure bro.

>>8533070
it's what we call microagressions

>>8532909
She was also obsessed with pointing out phallic objects. While the whole 'how reproduction is depicted' had some degree of merit it didn't bear much credibility because she came across as a lunatic who was almost the personification of highschool English class.

Other prof was based as fuck though and really reigned in discussions if they were too SJW. Massive contrast between the two.

Now it's on my transcript it's gonna be really awkward to explain that the topic wasnt shit and was basically law-lite and premed-lite with a focus on women. The topic even had a medical specialist from a clinic specialising in forensics and rape kits to give a comprehensive breakdown and guide to how forensics and rape kits in sexual assault matters work. Actually my top 3 favorite topics across my law degree and I hear the rest of the degree was also similarly cool.

>>8532875
>women
>majority

>>8533106
what are you saying? I was talking about OP being in the minority group with less power and the women in the class being the majority group with more power. It's be the opposite say in an engineering class.

>>8533100
>basically law-lite and premed-lite with a focus on women
that's basically what it's always meant to be, and using sociology to explain how society functions and where stereotypes and patterns of behaviours come from, kind of shocks me how many people assume it's literally a class on hating men.

>>8532716
That was literally my experience too lmao
Friend winded up caving HARD to the pressure and became a tranny

>>8532808
I thought real women were much more academic than men, and preferred *real* classes, not Neurosis Studies by dorky professors.

>>8533129
which feminist cringe compilation did you hear that on?

>>8533150
The first part of my comment came from Cara herself.

>>8533155
where

>Be a trans girl in a Queer Theory course
>Teacher is a butch lesbian TERF
>She asks the trans people in the room to explain our gender to her
>She laments to me in office hours that she feels that lesbians are in mourning over ftms because "We're losing our butches!
>We spend only two class sessions out of the year discussing the work of transgender individuals
>Btw this bitch also teaches an entire course on transgender people
>My friends and I all have a problem with her
>This AFAB nonbinary person with a lot of social capital LOVES her and sings her praises despite knowing of others' complaints

And AFAB transtrenders wonder why we don't trust them and don't believe they're on our side

>>8532746
"Because I don't have a uterus."

Seriously, when did you ever think this was going to come up?

>>8533174
how can they teach a course on trans people if they don't understand them?

>>8533208
fucking exactly! I don't even wanna imagine what it'd be like taking that course

>>8533210
well I guess nobody can complain it's a sjw course if a terf is teaching it.

>>8533161
You said in the past that women were better students since they actually studied hard.
Don't you see how that anon's law-lite class is more rigorous and has more academic value, compared to a class consisting of "society expects me to" and other projections?

>>8533223
I'm not whoever you think I am

>>8532716
Mansplaining
Stating accurate, verifiable facts. Especially when these facts are inconvenient to the feminist worldview, or contradict feminist talking points.
It is often used by a feminists who makes an incorrect claim in support of their narrative, and someone responds with something refuting the feminist’s claim, which she (usually it’s a she) cannot counter.
By claiming “mansplaining,” she tries to pretend to have invalidated her opponents claim, even though she has not addressed it at all.

>>8533291
>if I redefine a term I become right somehow

>>8533095
Lol.

>>8533305
Are you implying this isn't how it's usually used?

>>8532718
sounds like she was clarifying her position from the previous class desu
you were wrong in the context of the discussion with her but right about the literal words you were using

>>8533291
Did you just mansplain about mansplaining, my man?

>>8533291
mhm

>>8532716
Kill yourself

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>>8533291
Which facts did you use?

>>8532718

>turns out she meant women can't systematically discriminate against men

Why can't they? I mean, for the most part they're not in a position to do so, but was that her argument or was she saying women literally would or could not do so even if in the position where such a thing was possible?

>>8533360
by whom? every feminist? no I think most feminists understand it to mean when a man is patronising or being condescending towards a woman when explaining something. does buzzfeed use it wrongly? probably, but corporate pop feminism is as much feminism as corporate pop punk is punk, we hate it more than you do.

I've seen it used right and wrong, it's kind of a lame term either way since we have other words we can use.

I think OP meant it in the sense of the actual definition, as to say the other people in the class accused him of being patronising and condescending. It wouldn't make sense for them to accuse him of being right about facts and accuse themselves of being emotional or whatever.

>>8532716
>last week of class
>come out as trans
>prof backpedals out of reality so as not to be accused of transphobia
>4.0 cause muh oppression

>>8533417
>for the most part they're not in a position to do so
this is the point, they power structure isn't in place, this is what they're saying. it's really uncharitably to assume that anybody's arguing that women are just so pious that they can't be sexist or they couldn't systematically discriminate given the power to do so, in fact I think feminists do suppose that anybody who controls the power in society inevitably oppresses other groups just because of where the power lies.

>>8533444

>it's really uncharitably to assume that anybody's arguing that women are just so pious that they can't be sexist or they couldn't systematically discriminate given the power to do so

Unfortunately I've met enough people in my life that have made similar arguments that I have to be wary and ask for clarification when discussing the subject.

>>8533119

There's a lot of people unqualified to be teaching certain subjects that somehow get teaching jobs anyway, sadly.

>>8533452
the only time I see that used as an argument is when it's used as a strawman, where have you seen people say such nonsense? I guess I shouldn't be shocked, there are idiots everywhere on every side.

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>>8533106
>women
>not majority unless you are in china or MENA

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>>8532859
>>8533174
>queer studies/theory is a class now

Times sure have changed since I was in college.

>>8533473
talk about splitting hairs

>>8533479
before looking it up what would you say that class entails? just as a guess?

>>8533418

>no I think most feminists understand it to mean when a man is patronising or being condescending towards a woman when explaining something

Being patronizing and condescending when explaining something to someone else is not a gendered issue and doesn't really require its own terminology anymore than the phenomenon of "manspreading" does.

>>8533469

My older step sister and her network of rad-fems, primarily. Family gatherings and visits were always really tiresome with them around.

>>8533473
>human sex ratio
>doesn't label anywhere whether it's M:F or F:M
Judging by China being >1.03, it's probably M:F, what with the one child law that was in effect for a while.

>>8533483
On paper? Something along the lines of women's studies, i.e. the contributions/struggles/etc. of queer folk.

In practice? Leftist circlejerk and/or Oppression Olympics.

>>8533484
>is not a gendered issue
well the term makes it a gendered issue, it's more than just condescending and patronising, it's referring to a normalised behaviour where it was ok and expected for men to do it to women specifically because they're women, and because the ones doing it are men. it's not mansplaining if that doesn't apply, if it's not a man via a position of power as part of systemic sexism treating women "as less credible than men". it has to be a gendered issue first before you can call it mansplaining.
still it's not the best word to get people talking about feminism or sexism because, as has just happened, when you don't have context it looks like a sexist word itself. it's better suited to just being a concept rather than a buzzword.

>>8533523

>it's better suited to just being a concept rather than a buzzword.

Well unfortunately it's too late to put those worms back in the can.

What are your thoughts on "manspreading"?

>>8533514
>Leftist circlejerk and/or Oppression Olympics
can you define that better because that sounds like some buzzwords that doesn't really mean anything to me but that you probably don't like the left or people saying they're oppressed.

>the contributions/struggles/etc. of queer folk
well not really

Queer studies and Queer theory are both different things to start with

I think studies is more general about what causes people to be gay in the first place, and asking why is sexuality important and why does society behave around sexuality the way it does and why does it treat different sexualities differently. maybe that's not interesting to you but it is important to a lot of people, especially sociologists.

theory is more theoretical (obviously) and delves deeper into social constructs.

so none of that really sounds like just spouting great queer authors or congratulating queer people on being queer or anything like that. I think you're being too quick to condemn it without really knowing what it is

>>8533487
>rad-fems
can burn

>>8533532
>too late to put those worms back in the can
well, it's unfortunate because it's leading to the misrepresenting of feminist viewpoints which is good for nobody.

>manspreading
it's not really the issue, if it even is one, that I would tackle first on public transport, there are more pressing matters especially in my country.

I don't know if I believe the backlash so much about needing your legs apart because I've never had a problem closing my legs even with my big peeny, and if I did have a problem I could just cross my legs anyway like old timey dudes with pipes in chairs. Maybe a lot of guys do need some room, I don't know if they need like a 90 degree angle though. I think the trouble on public transport is just that people feel like they don't want to ask people to move up if they're taking up room, but then feel free to take up room because they assume if somebody wants to sit next to them they can ask them to move up.

>this person was taking up space on the subway with her bag but I didn't ask them if I could sit there, they should just know not to take up space

>yeah I was taking up space but if anybody wanted to sit down they could just ask me to move a bit

>>8533593
If a Man starts talking about "manspreading" and "my peeny", you are not talking to a Man. You are Talking to Estrogen.

>>8533601
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, do you mean people who talk about manspreading and their bits have oestrogen in them? Or people who specifically say 'my peeny'?
About 95% of the people I've seen talk about manspreading have been men reacting to it, but no I don't think they ever said my peeny.

>>8533616
I'm saying you're the most Weesh guy on the whole board, which is an accomplishment.

>>8533628
oh, I'm a tranny, I thought that might have been obvious, sorry, so yes, you are talking to oestrogen.

>>8533593

It's not about the size of the penis as much as it is about the comfort of the testicles, which are very sensitive to heat and pressure. For some men it isn't as much of an issue, for others it is.

Generally speaking the leg spreading is completely unconscious and not some active effort to take up more room or impose on others, something I think a lot of women don't understand (not that I would expect them to without it being explained first, as they lack the equipment and therefor the personal experience). Ultimately, yes, if the people who were so annoyed simply asked, 9 times out of 10 most guys would close their legs to make room for others.

>>8533686
>not some active effort to take up more room or impose on others
I don't know if I ever saw anybody say as much to be fair, a lot of the meme pop feminism basically said it was some kind of instinctive attempt at showing dominance and that it's not on purpose.

I think it's still not a complete answer to assume most people can just be asked to move. Depending on countries and regions and class and gender what is and what's not a taboo behaviour changes. It can be embarrassing or impolite to ask people to move in some places, or just not the done thing, and vice versa, maybe that's just british neurosis.
I think I'd be too shy to ask anybody to move either way.

>>8533744

>a lot of the meme pop feminism basically said it was some kind of instinctive attempt at showing dominance

Yeah, that's just a lot of horseshit. I spread my legs in the comfort of my own home, and I'm pretty sure it's not to display dominance to my cat.

As for the rest, that whole "taking up too much space" thing in general isn't gendered at all. No matter where you go you'll always find shmucks who take up too much space, by lounging around, putting their bags up on adjacent seats, etcetera. Either they're just inconsiderate, lacking in situational awareness, or have a few neuroses of their own and don't want to be too close to or touch people.

>>8533777
>not to display dominance to my cat.
maybe that's why cats are so good at getting what they want, they manspread wider.

>isn't gendered at all
yeah when we're talking about using too much space generally you can't blame one sex.

>>8533523
Thank God I'm a gay man who has to interact with women very little so i don't have to worry about any of this bullshit.

>>8533809
you wouldn't have to anyway, ideas in feminist theory rarely have any impact, it's just stupid stuff like the concept of mansplaining being misunderstood by the the internet that pops up now and again, I doubt it makes its way in a real sense into general life.

>>8533417
"being in a position to do so" is what "systematically" is all about. It doesn't mean no woman ever has the ability to discriminate against men - it's trivial easy to create individual examples of that. But a society dominated by patriarchal values does not give women the social backing and privilege to do so as a rule, that's where "systematically" comes in. And no, it's not universal, in a non-patriarchal society women would have the ability to discriminate at least as much as non-women.

>>8533484
It's not that being patronizing/condescending is always about gender, the idea behind "mansplaining" is that men tend to have that attitude towards women, especially when it has to do with fields that are considered masculine. Classic example is a random guy telling a female auto mechanic how to fix his car because that's a stereotypically male area, even though in this case she's more qualified in that area than he is.

>>8533845
So in other words, "mansplaining" if used correctly does not cover every case of a man acting condescending to a woman, it's the phenomenon of men thinking they're in a position to condescend to someone simply because they're a woman.

>>8532718
>turns out she meant women can't systematically discriminate against men, I feel like a retard and apologize for 5 minutes at the end of class
but she was literally disciminating against you while in position of power

>>8533858
key word = [s y s t e m a t i c a l l y]

a black manager can be racist towards white staff in a fast food joint, but that's not systematic

>>8533870
But academia is dominated by women

>>8533853
>>8533845

How do you determine if they're doing this because they're talking to a woman or simply because they're an asshole unless you've seen them act differently towards a male in a similar position or explicitly use gendered language?

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>>8533884
yeah who owns the shit?
no it's not women
and who makes up the majority of academics and professors (at least in my country)?
no it's not women

>>8533870
>"being in a position to do so" is what "systematically" is all about.

>a black manager can be racist towards white staff in a fast food joint, but that's not systematic

>>8533896
>>a black manager can be racist towards white staff in a fast food joint, but that's not systematic

no that's not systematic, when those white employees leave the store they leave and enter into a world that isn't systematically racist against them, so that racism in the store isn't systematic, they were in a microcosm in the store but the state or country dwarfs it completely.

>"being in a position to do so" is what "systematically" is all about.
no that's not what it means and that's not what anybody is taking it to mean, not the feminists not the teachers in the classes, at most you can argue semantics but that's neither here no there because that's not what we mean
we're talk about a vast cumulative system not just one or two microcosms, so the political system and the heads of major corporations and the people that really control things like bodily autonomy or healthcare.

>>8533915
this isn't to say that if all the chains of fast food stores were racist this wouldn't be systematic racism, that would be systematic, because there's a system there it's not just some bad apples being racist on their own.

>>8533870
Most "systematic" racist is just fucking smart business. Tyrone and Shaniqua aren't missing jobs because theyre black. They're being skimmed over because they're ghetto. Statistically speaking ghetto people are more likely to be bad employees, just like white trash named Bubba.

>>8533893
>women are the majority of voters
>women have an ingroup bias towards themselves and men have an outgroup bias towards women
>women spend the majority of money despite not earning it

>>8533915
The vast cumulative system of the west that has given women every available human right, while not offering the same or equivalent rights to the other half of the population you mean?

>>8533940
>while not offering the same or equivalent rights to the other half of the population
[citation needed]

>>8533928
which is why when the sjws look at inequity between whites and blacks they look at reasons why black people are in ghettos in the first place and what might be done to improve their situations and break the cycle of poor impoverished parents raising poor impoverished children, that's a besides point though.
when we talk about systematic racism we don't tend to imply that the people involved believe they're acing as racists, but that the systems in place favour white people or men or straights etc. just like your example with ghettos and jobs, employers don't hate black people, they're not burning crosses on lawns or anything.

>>8533935
sorry we were talking about academia I'm not going to combat every random point like whack-a-mole.

>>8533940
yeah no whack-a-mole I'm not interested in you dodging and weaving, if you can't stick to the points then I don't care to keep responding

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>>8533951
FUCKING
FEMINIST
SYSTEM

>>8533953
>which is why when the sjws look at inequity between whites and blacks they look at reasons why black people are in ghettos in the first place and what might be done to improve their situations
Really? Because all I see are people complaining about racist cops, protesting pride parades, and interrupting presidential candidates who could actually help them because they say it's an economic issue more than a race issue.

>>8533953
Academia, the institution where boys get driven to suicide by false accusations that get kicked straight out of court and girls get quotas?

>>8532718

Ha, I just found this show because of this image. Funny stuff.

>>8533953

On the subject of academia, what are your thoughts regarding the current trend of boys encountering increasing academic hardship while girls seem to be succeeding within modern academic systems?

>>8533962
Welcome to this week in stupid

>>8533951
I was implying the laws that allow a woman to opt out of parenthood while he father legally cannot, and the laws that protect girls rights to gential integrity which boys do not share.
And the fact that in the United states and other countries men are legally required to sign onto the draft to even get any rights, whereas a woman does not.
Bout the only thing a man can legally do that a woman cannot is be shirtless in public.

>>8532909
When I was a kid the sex-ed video played out like the beach scene from Private Ryan, shit was surreal.

>>8534034
That's just social. Female toplessness is legal in most jurisdictions.

>>8532909
>kind of makes sense when I think about it
No it doesn't. The sperm can be male or female.
And the egg is mostly inanimate while the sperm must swim to compete with the other sperm for a chance to live.

>>8533915
>when those white employees leave the store they leave and enter into a world that isn't systematically racist against them
Lmao what is Affirmative Action you fucking idiot?

>A world that is systematically racist
Wew lad gotta love that black and white worldview.

>>8533928
I'm mildly amused that you think this will fool anyone.

>>8533935
>>women are the majority of voters
By a negligible amount.
>>men have an outgroup bias towards women
Lolno.

>>8534057
But the sperm is symbolic of the male's role in reproduction, and these depicts show that the male's role is active while the female's is passive.

>>8534116
What is a more accurate depiction of the sperm+egg scenario?

>>8534116

>Lolno.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Women_are_wonderful%22_effect
http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec04/women.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274

>>8534116
>Reproduction education is sexism because they focus on the part that actually does something
>Preferring to watch dynamic systems over static ones is sexist

Congrats. You're the worst poster on /lgbt/

>>8532759
Some guys think it will get them laid.

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>be a guy in women and gender studies

>>8534125
I'm not sure there is one, I mean obviously there is a reason why the "men act, women are" effect exists. In order to prevent that attitude from becoming normative there should be additional focus on the "big picture", that in the grand scheme of things, both partners in a heterosexual partnership can play an equally active role in causing sex and reproduction to happen.

>>8534148
It's not really about dynamic versus static, it's more the view that the woman's role is static, when it would be equally valid to view both partners as having a dynamic role.

>>8533966
yeah they're trying to change police tactics and hold the govt to account.

>>8534208
>more the view that the woman's role is static
yeah this, and the egg doesn't just sit there forever waiting for the sperm, other stuff happens too.

>>8534208
Yeah, seems reasonable. I don't think there are a lot of people (depending on your area, obviously) that would disagree with the idea that both man and women can play equally active roles in sex. Just to be clear, are we agreeing that the depiction of the sperm+egg process makes sense? I thought maybe you were claiming that it was an inaccurate depiction due to bias about male and female roles, but instead you are saying that it can be a source of bias? Like because of the sperm+egg role people will extend that to actual relationships and sex?

>>8534229
Oh really? Is that what they're doing? By blocking pride parades they're changing police tactics?

>>8534233
Ovulation and the mechanisms of the egg are also taught. You're such bullshit because you apparently have never seen said videos. Of course the part on semination is going to focus in the sperm because, again, they are the actor.

>>8534034
>allow a woman to opt out of parenthood while he father legally cannot
you can legally opt our of parenthood at any time by not jizzing inside a cunt

>>8534253
I don't know much about blocking pride but I assume raising awareness? are you talking about BLM now or something?

>>8534257
Yeah but women can opt out afterwards by getting an abortion. It's hard to have a truly equal arrangement because objectively, the woman has a greater burden of actually bearing children. So even if a woman wants to opt out, but the father wants to raise the child on their own, there really isn't a satisfactory answer since the woman still has to go through the whole process of pregnancy and childbirth.

>>8534253
I saw numerous videos during sex and most of them were things like men in morph suits running down a track to see who could get to a spacehopper first or something, ovulation isn't taught in the same way, sperms are literally humanised.

>>8534257
>>8534268

Men should be able to get a "legal abortion", waiving any and all parental or visitation rights to the child but also the need to pay child support. I think the only country to have put the proposal forward thus far has been Sweden, but it sadly didn't get much traction.

>>8534268
you can't have rights over a woman's body, when a woman gets pregnant it's part of them to do with as they please.
giving men the right to abort a woman's baby too isn't an equal right, nor is opting out financially, they're clearly different rights to the right for women to have an abortion, there's nothing even close to an equal arrangement you could make. and if you start letting men put financial pressures onto women like that that's a whole different story, if you both make a bed you both have to lie in it, you always have the option to not get somebody pregnant in the first place.
if you could get pregnant you'd get the right to abort equally, but you can't, which really you should be happy about, abortions aren't quick or easy or painless.

>>8534297
no, they shouldn't, you make a baby you have to deal with it.

>>8534304
>you make a baby you have to deal with it.
No, you impregnate a woman, then she gets to decide if you have to deal with it or not.

Women get two options; men get one.

>>8534272
>I was taught poorly so i believe everyone was also taught poorly

This is not how world views should be formed. This is how stupid people form opinions.

>>8534261
>I assume they're doing it for a good reason. It's not like black people can be wrong.

>>8534340
women get the option to do what they want with their body, you get the option to do what you want with yours, you forfeit any right you have over your genetic package when it becomes part of somebody else's body.

abortions aren't part of a right to cancel parenthood they're a right to cut out part of your own body, you don't get to infringe upon that right or use that right to give yourself other extra rights. you have the right to remove something from your body too.

more importantly is the welfare of the child though, and child support tends to be regarded as a right, if somebody else provided that like the state then maybe, but somebody has to provide.

and this is still ignoring that some people feel like they can't get abortions for moral reasons, and it would be pretty fucked up to start pressuring them into having them.

>>8534356
I'm not assuming they're doing it for a good reason and I didn't say black people can't be wrong.
what a pointless strawman to use, and you didn't even answer the question, I guess a discussion in good faith is too much to ask.

>>8534349
you're telling me you've never seen somebody representing a sperm run down a track towards something spherical?

>>8534257
I've been raped by a woman before, I didn't have any choice in the matter so I couldn't just "not jizz inside of her" I was lucky that she never got pregnant but there's no protections for me if she did.

>>8534381
well that's so obviously a case where you shouldn't be forced to be the father.

Ok... why would anyone actually study this? is it interesting?

>>8534368
I agree that a man shouldn't have any say over what a woman decides to do with her body, just like a woman shouldn't have any right to decide what happens to a males body (like mothers circumcising their sons without their consent) However, if a man has no rights to what haoens to a fetus during pregnancy, than he shouldn't have any responsibility to provide for that fetus, he should be allowed to opt out if he chooses to do so.

>>8534368

Do you believe that men should have to pay child support if the child is the product of rape, statutory or otherwise?

>>8534393
But by law I would be, which is why we need to discuss the reproductive rights of men.

>>8534403
>than he shouldn't have any responsibility to provide for that fetus
you're not providing for a fetus you're providing for a child.
>he should be allowed to opt out if he chooses to do so.
still no, you can't create a situation and then decide not to be accountable for half of a living child, you forfeit that when you consent to sex and you can't pressure women into doing something with their bodies. it's none of your business until after the cut off for abortions technically.

>>8534404
a rape which way? a woman raping a man? no I don't think so, or spermjacking or anything with no consent.

>>8534409
we sure do, but I think that's a different issue to financial abortions.

>>8534422
Financial abortions protects men from being drafted into fatherhood without their consent. The option has to be there, especially for vulnerable men, underaged boys and victims of rape.

>>8534422

A woman raping a man through force or having sex with a minor. Unfortunately the law, at least in the United States, does not agree with you.

>>8534442

For reference's sake:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

>Hermesmann v. Seyer (State ex rel. Hermesmann v. Seyer 847 P.2d 1273 (Kan. 1993)) was a precedent-setting Kansas, United States case in which Colleen Hermesmann successfully argued that a woman is entitled to sue the father of her child for child support even if conception occurred as a result of a criminal act committed by the woman.

>The case established a precedent which has subsequently been used in the Kansas courts.[8] It is one of the earlier cases now cited in U.S. child support guidelines which say that in every case that has addressed the issue the court has decided that an underage boy is liable for the support of his child even when the conception was the result of statutory rape by the mother.

>>8534440
well if they're available only in the cases where consent to sex was not given sure.
financial abortions as a concept, at least in online discussions, usually describe the situation when it's a choice for men who did consent to sex and did get a woman pregnant to opt out of responsibility.

>>8534442
well never say a feminist has never agreed with you, I think that's wack, and I think the state should be paying that half of the child support.

>>8532716
>be a guy in women and gender studies
Why do you do this to yourself?

>>8534461
The problem is that most rape cases, whether man on woman, woman on man, or any variation, the perp is never convicted. So even in most female-on-male situations, the male victim would still at the very least be forced to financially provide for his rapist.

>>8534461
>I think the state should be paying that half of the child support.
So instead of having the victim pay, he's paying along with everyone else in the goddamn country.

>>8534494
You might even say its a culture of rape

>>8534487
all the more reason to see more rape cases go to court, I don't think you'd say that suspicion alone of man raping a woman would be enough to find the suspect guilty in some degree, so I can't see it working the other way, suspicion of a woman raping a man being enough for a financial abortion.

>>8534494
children are our future, you're already paying in for schools.

>>8534499
you can't start blaming the child though

>>8534511
>you're already paying in for schools.
Paying for schools is not the same as rewarding crime.

>>8534530
child support goes to the child, like I just said you can't blame the child, it's not rewarding crime it's providing for a child.

>>8534520
What will that child grow up to be? Another rapist? A sterile hsts?

>>8534535
>child support goes to the children

>>8534539
I can't imagine persecuting the child will make them more likely to be a well adjusted member of society.

>>8534545
What if that child grew up to be hitler? Could you take the bullet?

>>8534511
Suspicion of a woman raping someone wouldn't be enough and shouldn't be enough to charge her, but the claim should be enough to open up the option of financial abortion to the alleged victim. Again, she's not being charged.
While I would love to see more rape cases go to court (I personally regret not reporting the rapes, though at the time I was just doing everything I can to protect myself), reality is the laws in many western societies are still too backwards. Im many countries male rape (especially female-on-male) isn't even recognised.

>>8534547
yeah why not

>>8534552
>but the claim should be enough to open up the option of financial abortion to the alleged victim
no it shouldn't, or you could claim it whenever, we're innocent until proven guilty, you can't compromise on that, we can't start changing child support around on suspicion.
>she's not being charged
well you kind of are charging them with something, you're creating a legal charge of being suspicious enough of rape, can you imagine if that happened the other way around?

>reality is the laws in many western societies are still too backwards
then we need to change them, we can't start an alternative judiciary system based on suspicion.

>>8532716
>be a guy in women and gender studies
can you please explain why you would ever do that?
are you trying to get laid or something? because I hate to break it to you, even feminists wont fuck a faggot who takes a gender studies class

>>8534619
gosh you're rude

>>8534569
So you would rather rapists force their victims to pay them if they cannot prove it? (Oh by the way, it's extremely difficult to prove whether the sex was consensual or not, unless there are obvious factors like age or perhaps disability, and I don't see any way of bending laws that would change this) I can imagine if it's the other way around and it's equally as reprehensible. Rape is a serious crime, reporting that crime is serious business. Most of the time when a charge has been cleared it's not because the allegations have been proven false (if the allegation is proven false, serious felony charges should be made against the liar) it's because the crime cannot be confirmed.

>>8534627
sometimes the unedited truth is the only thing that should be said my man

>>8532716
>gender studies
For what purpose?

>>8534635
I don't see a way of separating the guilty and innocent and not accidentally prosecuting innocent people with this method, I think innocent until proven guilty is a good principle I don't want to compromise on that. I don't want to see rapists force their victims to pay anything not do I want to see murderers go free. Being difficult to prove doesn't meant we start lowering the bar of what is considered guilty.
>it's because the crime cannot be confirmed
it's not perfect but I do not see how any other way is better.

>>8534667
We might not be able to convict perpetrators but we should always be able to protect the victims. There's nothing we can do for a murder victim, but a rape victim who's alive can and should be protected, (except in cases where it's proven they lied) even if prosecuting the rapist fails. That means letting a female victim who's become impregnated through rape the option of abortion, free of charge, and a male victim a financial abortion. A woman isn't being legally charged because the man has decided not to financially sustain her and her offspring. She's not being charged with a crime (unless the rape has been proven).

women just naturally view men as the agressor. I once found a dog with a crippled leg in the middle of the woods on the outskirts of my town, it was a golden retriever, I picked it up and walked it for almost 10 miles to the dog shelter, taking breaks. I'm naturally kind of shy and awkward and when I explained what happened they looked at me like I abused the animal myself. lol

>>8532746
>I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"
>I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"
>I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"
>I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"
>I didn't wanna be asked mid transition "why didn't you take WGS anon???"
???????????????????

>>8534781
I don't think you should start comparing women aborting fetus' after they've been raped with men having financial abortions. they're not the same, and that's kind of fucked up.

>the man has decided
the man wouldn't be make the decision on their own though they'd need some kind of motion by a legal body, and whether you're charging the woman with a crime or not you're basically saying that they did it without evidence and that the victim is definitely a victim without evidence. I don't see how you can distinguish the guilty and innocent like this, it seems rife for abuse to make judgements with no verdict.

>>8534796
>they looked at me like I abused the animal myself
how the hell could you know what they're thinking?
men being seen as aggressors ties into how we teach men to behave and what they should aspire to be; toxic masculinity and the such, but that's probably another story.

>>8534804
Again, what your saying is women should have all the options to protect themselves but men shouldn't have those rights, that if a male rape victim doesn't want to financially support his rapist he has to vigorously try to find proof, not something women are forced to do, though women get away with a lot in this gynocentric society. Do you have any idea how traumatising it is for rape victims to be forced to constantly maintain contact with their rapists and worse, give them money? Nobody is taught to have any kind of sympathy to males. It even happens in childhood, where mother's are statisically more likely to abuse their children, particularly their male children. Though I suppose that's a topic for another day.

>>8534796
So does that mean women are just as much at fault for perpetuating toxic masculinity? Unfairly portraying and forcing men and boys into the roles of agressor?

>>8534842
I'm not saying women should have the options to protect themselves and men shouldn't.
when a woman is pregnant there tends to be evidence and they can do something about it on their own.
>if a male rape victim doesn't want to financially support his rapist he has to vigorously try to find proof
as much as victims of any crime, the problem with your scenario is that you're starting off with an assumption that we know who's telling the truth and who's lying when we don't.
>not something women are forced to do
but they are if they want to convict a rapist, you can't hold it against women that they have bodily autonomy, that doesn't affect this opposite scenario, you don't get to demand he suspension of innocent until proven guilty because women can have abortions.

>Do you have any idea how traumatising it is for rape victims to be forced to constantly maintain contact with their rapists and worse, give them money?
again I'm not in favour of this, but I don't see how you can do something legally with no evidence that could be easily abused.

>Nobody is taught to have any kind of sympathy to males. It even happens in childhood, where mother's are statisically more likely to abuse their children, particularly their male children. Though I suppose that's a topic for another day.
and that's terrible. I do have sympathy for male rape victims. I don't think sympathy is enough for me or anybody to determine truth though, and that kind of appeal to emotion isn't allowed to work for female rape victims so I don't see why it should work for this legal matter either.

>>8534856
sure probably, it's a societal problem, and not all women are feminists, I'm sure women contribute too, and there's toxic femininity too.

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>>8532716
>complains about gender equality
>still felt the need to explain that he's feminine
The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house. Man up.

>>8534890
I don't hold it against women that they have bodily anatomy, I support that wholeheartedly and would fight for it, and fight for the rights of male's bodily autonomy too (in situations like circumcision and stuff, unrelated here) I just wish that male rape victims were given the equivalent rights and respect, but it seems no one else wants that... always the man's responsibility... even when he should'n't be.

>>8534953
*autonomy

>>8534953
they do have the same rights, I don't know about respect, if they were carrying the fetus they would be allowed to abort it, this is not a matter of men not having equal rights. it's not the man's responsibility here it's the judicial system's, I don't see a way of getting around that, there has to be due process.

>>8534890
I've never heard of toxic femininity myself, I've only heard of toxic feminism, or that cringey mgtow. I'll have to look it up later.

>>8534972
Not the same person as >>8534953 but
it's not about aborting the fetus, the woman can choose the have the baby or not it's entirely up to her. It should be entirely up to the man whether or not he consents to fatherhood. They both have their rights and responsibilities. Technically women should be allowed to choose whether or not she consensts to motherhood as well, even if she carries on the pregnancy. That would be beneficial for surrogate mothers and the parent(s) of that child. It's kind of a thing I particularly advocate for because I'm gay, and two men having a child via surrogate is a legal nightmare in my country. Though honestly a lot of work needs to be done, abortion isn't even legal here :/

>>8534972
Right, of course, male rape victims always having to take responsibility... just like always...
Sigh, sorry, I take things personally when I know it's not rational, it just sucks always being ridiculed or forced to take responsibility for crimes done against you.

>>8534380
Umm, no?

>>8534373
I just find it particularly unnerving when black people and their SJW allies start demanding policemen be removed from pride festivities to promote inclusiveness of PoCs.

When the next Omar decides to shoot up a pride festival, will it be worth the extra lives lost due to the absence of police?

>>8534057
but at the same time, the egg contains more information at that stage hence why two women can theoretically have a genetic child together but two men will never be able to, so it doesn't make much sense that "you" are the sperm lol.

>>8532716
>does gender studies
>expects professors to be rational human beings

>>8532746
What?

>>8534057
>>8536755
You're arguing whether a story is made by the paper or the ink...

>>8536719
>will it be worth the extra lives lost
I think you already know how BLM answers this question, regardless of circumstances.

>>8534535
>child support goes to the child
It literally doesn't.
It goes to the parent, who is "supposed" to spend it on the wellbeing of the child.

So not only does the victim/society pay for an unwanted child that they could not abort, you're rewarding the rapist with a constant stream of free income for the next 18 years, with only minimal responsibility on her part, assuming she's a lawful citizen and doesn't neglect the kid.

>>8536800
Would be interesting if someone were to sue BLM for it.

>>8536880
Haven't there been loads of cases of a father paying money to a mother when he is the one in custody of the child?

>>8534461
>well never say a feminist has never agreed with you, I think that's wack, and I think the state should be paying that half of the child support.
Why not just make the rapist pay double?

>>8536880
Not the person you're talking to, but if it did go to the child would you be okay with it?
I'm just trying to understand the actual issue here, and it seems not to be the fact that they receive child support, but that you don't think there are enough checks in the child support system to ensure that the money is going to benefit the child.

>>8537291
Can the child deposit it in their account and go to the store to buy milk and diapers?
This is stupid.

>>8537317
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying that it's not possible to monitor their spending or add any checks that would help to know whether the child is benefiting properly from the money?
>>8537267
I imagine because if the rapist doesn't have the means to pay double that would hurt the child.

Thinking about the situation more, why would we even let the rapist have the child in the first place? It's a little extreme, but maybe the kid would be better off going up for adoption or something rather than being raised by a rapist.

>>8537333
>monitor their spending

yes, we can add layers of government bureaucracy.
we can have a Child Protective Services officer in every home making sure the parenting is being done properly, but at what cost to the state?
and what if the CPS officer is a pedo or a dumbcunt or just doesn't give a shit?
this idea that more laws will solve everything is naive.
if parents aren't good parents there is not a lot we can do about it as a society.
if you are a divorced dad and your wife is not using your child support payments to care for your child then you should go to court and try to get custody.

>>8537333
>I imagine because if the rapist doesn't have the means to pay double that would hurt the child.
That same issue could also come up even if the rapist is only required to pay the normal one-half share. And it's trivially solved anyway: have the state pay if the money is needed immediately, but require the rapist to pay it back later.

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>be in gender studies class
>class discussion about "what you see" in a slideshow of women in different cultures
>slide of women in full niqab, eyeslit and everything
>i say "i see oppression"
>entire class starts muttering about how offensive that is and how i'm a racist and an asshole
>feel socially pressured to apologise to overtly muslim teacher after class
>she says it wasn't offensive at all

>>8537342
>have the state pay

you mean have the taxpayer pay.
and we already do pay for disgusting people to have children.
we pay a lot.
it is called welfare and for a lot of people having children is their job because the government literally pays them to have worthless stupid kids.

>>8537341
It sounds more like you're rejecting the idea of adding any layer of checks in these *very* specific cases. I'm not sure what the cost to the state would be to add additional checks for parents with less-than-stellar histories, but as a person with a job I'm willing to help pay it via taxes. Also, it seems like you're arguing sometimes from a perspective of "if there's a situation where it can go bad then it's bad", it's essentially fatalism, like yeah if the CPS officer is evil then they will do evil shit you got me there hopefully we don't hire an evil person to be a CPS officer. I mean fuck it fuck democracy because what if the president is a pedo or a dumbcunt or just doesn't give a shit? Like I can apply this to anything; there isn't a perfect situation that we can actually make a reality, we're just looking for the best one.
>>8537342
What defines the money being "needed immediately"? What's the interest rate on this? What is "later"? I'm not sure that you don't have an interesting idea here, but the specifics are vague and I think there might be some problems.

>>8537369
Not fatalism, fuck I meant to backspace that. What's the one where a person argues that because we can't reach the best situation then we shouldn't try at all
Appeal to futility, maybe?

>>8537369
you're arguing from the point of the parent is always a failure and mismanages funds to the detriment of the child.

who, other than the parent, is going to actually care about the child?

some random government worker who just wants a paycheck?

>>8537411
If they are seen mismanaging the funds and failing the child then the child is taken from them. Your argument seems to just be that a CPS officer can't do their job properly. In which case I dunno I guess it's all fucked. I hope the person that we hire to do a job is able to do their job.

>>8537428
I believe that most CPS officers are competent and intelligent and try to do a good job.
However, throwing money at bureacracy is not the solution.
We need to help parents become better parents and eventually eliminate the role of CPS officer.
Maybe more parental training classes in high school.
Maybe make birth control easier to get so that fewer teens get pregnant.
Maybe stop demonizing sex education.
Maybe stop rewarding people for being baby machines.
I, personally, would like to see people who have children pay MORE taxes instead of less.
People with children use more public services (like schools and playgrounds) and having children should be a privilege, not a right.
I would like to see dumb, ugly people sterilized, not rewarded with welfare money.
But maybe I'm a horrible misanthrope.

>>8537449
I, too, would love a utopia where all parents are perfect, but until then let's keep the CPS officers around and talk about issues with the goal of helping the kids not eliminating the jobs of those that help kids.
>I would like to see dumb, ugly people sterilized
>But maybe I'm a horrible misanthrope.
Yeah, kinda.

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>>8532716

>>8537449
Why can't you be president?

>>8541497
Probably because of statements like "I would like to see dumb, ugly people sterilized".

I actually wanted to put a "gender/women's studies" class on my Sophomore schedule before realizing it'd be a waste of time and credit hours. But I wonder how many trannies end up in those classes...aside from the Ayyydens.

>>8541545
But that's exactly why you need to be!

>>8533399
Is that a fucking Loli??? Shame on you!!!

>>8541555
Not the person, but I think I'm pretty glad we don't have a sociopath in office oh wait

>>8541588
>oh wait
It's July anon. Obama's been out of office for six months.

>>8541598
https://youtu.be/vHbLRf3C9KI
S O C I O P A T H

>>8541612
He's amazing at faking emotions for attention. He's literally the male version of the drama queen chick every guy dates and then ends up hating.

>>8541618
It takes a special kind of partisan hack to mentally gymnast their way to Obama being a sociopath whereas the guy whose co-author of his autobiography calls him a sociopath isn't one.

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>>8541598
I love how conservatives are still trying to make it about obama rather than admit that trump hasn't done anything of substance and probably never will!

Arguing about politics is the new Mac vs PC. Cringeworthy dorks on both sides of the argument, everyone is laughing at you.

>>8541626
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/233902/obama-isnt-introvert-hes-narcissist-daniel-greenfield

>>8537449
Eugenics doesn't work.

>>8541645
He's kept the Dems out of the white house, saved the SCOTUS from another liberal justice, and stood by Israel.

Exceeding expectations so far.

>>8541664
I also prefer to stick my head in the sand, that way i can pretend i'm not getting fucked.

>>8541668
Holy shit that site and shallow-as-fuck article.
What are you doing, anon?

>>8541675
Yeah I guess when your main goal is the other side not winning you sure do win when you win. Glad that politics has evolved to this point.

>>8541688
Are you kidding? I can't imagine the evil he saved us from had the election been won by Her.

I notice that you ignore the part about standing by Israel, after Obama and Clinton's history of backstabbing it. I guess that doesn't matter to you. Scratch a liberal and you wound a fascist.

>>8541697
Yeah I guess when you demonize your opposition it makes it pretty bad if they win. She would have started WW3, right? Really dodged that bullet, huh?
Glad Trump's with Israel; one of our few allies that he seems to actually have respect for.

>>8541676
>he blames politicians for his problems
What a joke!

>>8532716
>>8532718
>so numale that you try to take womens studies to prove you're not a bully and find a safe space with the girls
>immediately get bullied by the girls instead
it's like you want to be humiliated

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>>8541675
>stood by Israel.
kek

>>8534022
basically:
Men are the lower class
Women are the middle class
Rich Men are the upper class
"Rich Women" are a joke and women will never threaten the men of the upper class, so women of the middle class pick on men of the lower class instead, to try and find a soft target, and men of the lower class summarily rape the women because it's the only thing they can really do with richer guys fucking them economically and all women fucking them socially.

Love is dead and the Jewish television shows tell you how your president is bad because he doesn't want to let the rape religion into the country.

>>8541732
gb2/pol/

>>8541746
>and women will never threaten the men of the upper class
No amount of wealth can stop you getting drafted. But lacking a Y chromosome?

>>8541716
Depending on how this new healthcare thing works out, you might have a lot of people with valid reasons to blame politicians for their problems.

>>8541780
>No amount of wealth can stop you getting drafted
>into the safest position of the army that still gives you big boy credibility which simply allows you to widen the gap further and make connections, because the rich manipulate the world to create wars and decide when they happen because it's a gigantic and enormously profitable industry
>all the men with backbone are sent to die while the meek rape their women in the shadows
I understand why the Jews think of you as livestock

>>8541800
better chances of survival =/= not having to risk your life in the first place.

>>8541809
I don't think you know how rich these guys are

There are plenty of positions that will never see combat and never even come close to any combat zone and barring that, there are countless ways to fabricate medical records and other excuses while burying all evidence of doing so. The game they're playing isn't even remotely close to the one you're playing. They basically don't even consider themselves to be the same species as you, and in terms of society they live by a completely different set of rules.

>>8541746
>Women are the middle class

FYI: The middle class is shrinking

>>8541826
I know.

What I'm saying is they're the middle class without actually having any more money.

>>8541839
Well they get paid for having children so maybe it's that.

>>8541746

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with modern academic systems seeming to be structured to favor girls at the expense of boys.

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>>8541934
Academia is all about social influence

also what the fuck is this captcha

>>8541824
Yeah you're not selling the whole "b-but they can just BUY female privilege" thing.

>>8541780
Possibly the most emblematic song of the Vietnam war is Fortunate Son.
Guess what it's about.

>>8541987
why would they want to downgrade

>>8537362
Except the actual effect on taxpayers would be minimal, since the rapist would be required to pay back the money, plus interest, as soon as possible. And we're not talking about welfare that "rewards" people for having children, we're talking about cases where pregnancy as a result of rape has ALREADY happened. Any other way of handling it would make the rape victim or the child suffer for the rapist's action.

>>8537369
>What defines the money being "needed immediately"? What's the interest rate on this? What is "later"? I'm not sure that you don't have an interesting idea here, but the specifics are vague and I think there might be some problems.
I'm not a lawyer, people more qualified than I would be in charge of deciding those specifics.

>>8541664
And just like Mac vs PC, one side is objectively right and the other is objectively wrong.

>>8541780
Except back in the Civil War it was perfectly acceptable to pay someone to go in your place if you got drafted, and money is the path to higher education which is a common exemption from the draft.

>>8542020
The point's been amply proven that they wouldn't be. I mean, if you insist >>8542220 "that they wouldn't be since the Civil War."

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>women's studies
>gender studies
>universities
>universities now
>universities since the 1960's

>women

>>8542008
death?

>>8544031
I guess in an abstract sense.

>>8542220
Yes, one side is objectively right. Now go install a free software before it's too late.

>>8533100

reined in

>>8544739
No, reigned in like Roman Reigns. My crim law prof suplexed that SJW and then put a literal harness on her to remind her who's the boss.

>>8532716
>Gender equality am I right
Gender studies = feminist studies = anti-equality.

>>8532716
Gender studies are a joke

>>8547117
Feminism is no joke.

>>8533893
ummm have you ever heard of a teachers union?

>>8549317
Lol it sure as hell is.