>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar ticle-4657830/transge

>>8531573
let me know when this trickles down from rich people to be even slightly affordable

>>8531624
You missed
>fertility doctors back operations on NHS

It will be paid for by the government out of your taxes instead of providing police, housing, ambulances or life-saving cancer research.

>>8531638
yeah like any benefits for a disability

>>8531656
Good point, all the money spent giving me a womb and artificial ovaries just so I can have a biological kid instead of a surrogate or adoption or being childless like plenty of women are could instead be providing wheelchairs, hearing aids, guide dogs for the blind or even research to help restore their vision, or proper help for people who would otherwise be on the streets, in prison or at best in dull and even abusive adult care homes.

>>8531638
Yeah fucking right, as if cancer research really has a whole lot of places to go? Stem cell grown ovaries would be likely to produce more than their fair share of biomedical data.

>>8531716
>as if cancer research really has a whole lot of places to go?
You tell me, I'm not a cancer researcher. But if you think our ability to get pregnant is important than having enough nurses and doctors to treat life-threatening injuries and diseases, then I think you're biased.

>>8531682
so all welfare should go only to the most worth recipient? that's not really how we dole it out, there should be enough to go around for everybody including trans people who are only a tiny portion of the population anyway. they'll probably be a benefit from trans people using less other welfare services anyway, less therapy and less suicides, but it's not like when a more expensive procedure becomes available that we steal the hearing aids off of people, instead we should be putting more money into welfare. it's not an issue of cancer vs trans it's should we fund it from taxes or should we not. it's a disability to I say yeah seems like we do for other things why not this too?

>>8531745
Yes, fuck yeah I am, I am biased towards thinking about science rather than "wah,wah,wah,human need! Look at my rightheaded concern!".

Get your head on straight, cancer is the gigantic concern of the medical industry, I can't even try to asses just how much organizations there are devoted to it. Artificially grown ovaries are at least a new line of medical activity, it lets doctors do new things, embrace new challenges, analyse new situations.

YOU KNOW WHAT? I wouldn't be surprised if it led to a treatment to rejuvenating ciswomen's ovaries that would axe those nasty downs syndrome rates of children born to mothers in their 40s. But enjoy your comfy thoughts of raw "importantness".

>>8531760
>so all welfare should go only to the most worth recipient? that's not really how we dole it out, there should be enough to go around for everybody
Do you think we have a magic money tree and if something touches out heart we can just give the trunk and shake and coins start falling down? Do you think every other kind of help that people can possibly be given is already funded enough to have universal access and it's just a tiny bit more to cover every fanciful future trans technology that gets a headline? Do you have any idea how much a single IVF treatment, which isn't even more likely than not to result in a pregnancy, already costs and how much far more effective treatments for far more people in far more critical situations that could fund?

>>8531778
My family > Everyone else

>tfw when trans people aren't the only people being cheated by religious shitbags and bioethics academia

>>8531780
Then your political views aren't "__ should be funded". They are "I should be dictator".

Fair enough but leave them out of realistic discussions that aren't entirely evil.

>>8531573
>womb transplants
literally lowest priority bullshit, breeders need to kill themselves

>3-D printed artificial ovaries
necessary, high priority

>aggressive bone remodeling
necessary, highest priority

>>8531778
>magic money tree
what are you a tory or something, the magic money tree argument is a fallacy, nobody is suggesting we can get money from nowhere, what tends to be advocated is the money does come from somewhere, maybe taxes for example, maybe corporation tax.

and like I said that's not how we dole out welfare, in my country we're underfunded, we need more money spent on welfare and we could reasonably do that, the amount spent on welfare isn't fixed we can literally spend more money if we know where we're getting it from, so magic money tree isn't a helpful argument.

my point is more that I don't think we dole out welfare in some kind of deserving and undeserving disability tier system, we try to cover everybody, and trans people shouldn't really be different, we're not telling other people who get IVF that the money should be spent elsewhere that we think is more important, or shutting out people with liver damage or lung damage who got it by drinking or smoking from healthcare.

and #8531780 wasn't me btw

>>8531573

With so many children needing adopting in this world, anything that "allows" people to fuck with nature and create biological babies really ticks me off.

A baby is not "more" yours just because it shares your genes, and we really don't know how these Frankenstein babies from something other than sperm and egg will grow up to be genetically. Test-tube babies are one thing (though I still think nature makes people infertile for a reason), but at least the "raw materials" are right.

>>8531793
Let's just take a few more bags of gold from Scourge McDuck's swimming pool of gold, he won't notice!

>>8531804
yeah why the fuck not, it doesn't have to be like this, this isn't some kind of natural equilibrium we're living in it can be changed.

>>8531802
>a baby isn't more 'yours' just because its genetically yours
Actually Famalam genetics are a huge part of personality and iq, and unlike some Hollywood star my love, devotion, and attention isn't a charitable donation

>>8531815
>genetics are a huge part of personality and iq
what are you a race realist?

>>8531804
No shit, that was the whole fucking point of Brexit, making it possible to prevent Scrooge from stashing all his money in Luxembourg and Malta to evade all thems taxes.

>>8531824
>do I live in reality, even if its not comfortable
I would be concerned if I didn't?

https://www.livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html

Some highlights from the article
>70% of iq variance is genetic
>religiosity was found to be 50% genetic
>happiness and wellbeing was found to be 50% genetics
>80% of twins felt closer to their newfound twin than with their best friends (all of these twins were separated at a young age and adopted)

>>8531573
> Transgender women who were born male should be given womb transplants
Fuck them.
That's not a necessary treatment even taking transsexuality into account, since they can just adopt like the rest of infertile or gay couples.
> 3-D printed artificial ovaries
That sounds cool. Would remove the need for taking hormones for the rest of your life.

Still waiting for a revolution in vaginoplasty/phalloplasty that would make them actually worth getting.

>Women’s campaigner Laura Perrins said: ‘Most taxpayers will not think this is a good use of resources. It raises profound ethical and moral issues that will have an impact on women’s rights. It will impinge on the meaning of motherhood and womanhood.’

>>8531876
the thing is, it can help all women trans or not.
I am betting it will be free for women who have had hysterectomies because of cancer or women who were born without one
but trannies will have to pay because "we arent real women"

>>8531892
terfs are reeeing already?

>>8531573
People are really failing to think of the ciswomen here enough!

It pretty much takes it for granted that fully functional ovaries would have to be paired up with the uterus, but how about opening your mind up a little? It would make a lot of sense to enable transwomen to bear children for other women. Just try and compare the effects relating to cispeople in both situations, in one case, men get their partner pools enlarged by a minute percentage. In the other, women that want kids but are deterred from carrying them are presented with a very rare opportunity.

>>8531917
>terfs are reeeing already?
That's the scariest thing, she's not even a TERF, she's an anti-feminist woman. The one group of women I thought were on my side...

It's like that tract about the feminist and the Christian chatting without realizing who the other is, but come true!

>>8531778
It's called taxes, you'd know this if you made money and paid them.

>>8531892
If a trans man can have a baby so should a trans woman

>>8531784
Capitalism. Retard. If I can pay for a womb its my right to receive one. Fuck you amd everyone else

File: 1405593745191.png (103KB, 650x706px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 650x706px

>>8531926
weird, she sounds a lot like a feminist

>>8531851
twins that are separated at birth still share prenatal environments, these studies aren't proof of genetics determining iq or personality

these might interest you:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/looking-in-the-cultural-mirror/201006/why-twin-studies-dont-separate-genes-and-environment

>Twins Reared Apart (TRA) Studies
https://www.madinamerica.com/2015/11/twin-studies-are-still-in-trouble-a-response-to-turkheimer/

>>8531939
it's probably not fair to say all feminists are terfs when there's a major major schism going on between them.

>>8531937
>>8531638

>>8531934
Some European countries ban mtf transitions if you have banked sperm, so maybe they wouldn't allow fertile ftms either?

>>8531917
Well, I don't think it's a necessary treatment for cis women either. It's too risky, hard and expensive.
Though I might be a bit biased here, since I don't want to have biological kids even if I could, only adopted ones.

>>8531933
For someone who's so big on making money and paying, you're awfully eager not to be the one paying for your own vanity surgery.

>>8531940
This ignores genetic studies that don't deal with twins that find the exact same thing, that genetics are a major factor into iq and personality

>WOMBS FOR MEN: COMMENT FROM FEMINIST CAMPAIGNER JULIE BINDEL

>But those born male who are dosed with female hormones and undergo cosmetic surgery in order to present as female will never be women.

>All of the oppression women have been through because of lack of childcare and issues over maternity leave will be pushed aside over whether celebrities such as Caitlyn Jenner should have a womb transplant.

>Let’s be clear: this is a lifestyle choice, not a health issue. And quite frankly, I’m not sure if men will make good mothers.

Really, Daily Fail? Really? Everyone else gets maybe a sentence to say their piece, but you let Julie Bindel interrupt your article to spew several paragraphs worth of TERF talking points?

Also note that she is afraid that "men won't make good mothers." By which, of course, she really means that she sees men as inherently inferior parents to women. Remember, kids, the reason TERFs are so bad is the "RF" part. The reason they are such horrible, hateful people is NOT because they see transwomen as men, it's because they hate men and view them as the enemy, but unlike "trans-inclusive" Feminists they don't see transwomen as an exception.

File: 1451726119680.jpg (72KB, 760x558px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 760x558px

>>8531573
>3D scan your pelvis
>reshape the model so you have wider hips and an opening for babies to pop out of
>print replacement bones out
>perform standard hip replacement surgery but instead of grinding a hole in the pelvis, replace parts of it
>a week later you are healed and have girly hips

please god, please let this be cheap

>>8532302

not in our lifetime

If the womb will allow me to bleed and not require hrt Im all for it

>>8531778
Hahahaha Americans

>>8531745
>>8531682
You seem oddly salty
No reason reaources cant be dedicated to helping transpeople

>>8531778
>magic money tree
spotted the Tory
didn't take you long to find one to pay £1 billion to the DUP, did it?

>MPs give themselves a £1000 pay rise
>vote down legislation to stop freezing emergency workers' wages despite rising cost of living (they've been frozen for the last 7 years) days after they were all proclaiming how great the police etc. have been in the face of the terrorist attacks + tower block fire
>"we don't have a magic money tree!"
really makes you think

>avoided corporate tax in 2015 alone was £34 billion
>total cuts to the NHS from 2010-2015 was £20 billion
>"there's no magic money tree!"

right-wingers on the EU: "We mustn't be held hostage by Europe! It's time to take back control! It doesn't matter if we take a hit economically short-term because longer-term our society will be healthier for it!"

right-wingers on corporate tax avoidance: "We've got to let them hold us hostage! If we tell them they can't be greedy and detrimental to society anymore, corporations will leave the UK and cause short-term job losses! Who cares if their selfishness fucks up society even more longer-term? F-Free markets!"

>>8532417
>>8532412
>>8532391
Where are yours sources?

>>8532438
the £34 billion was £18B avoidance + £16B evasion, sorry, but hardly better when HMRC goes after easy low-level evasion prosecutions while ignoring the corporate evasion cases owing much larger sums
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/11/uk-tax-gap-rises-hmrc-avoidance-nonpayment
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/uk-tax-costs-government-16bn-each-year-audit-report-says
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/oct/17/nhs-cuts-impact-on-patients-revealed

it adds up, but even if it didn't cancel out the cuts completely collecting the money we're already owed would count massively towards softening the blow and making the majority of 'Austerity' unnecessary

>>8532412
Do you think cooperations are just a way to get free money?
By taxing them more you are making them lose money, meaning they either lay-off employees, or raise prices to make the money they lost. Well done you hurt those big cooperations but either cost people jobs or cost people stuff from their life as they can't afford what they used to be able to afford, due to raising prices.

>>8532494
see >>8532417
Why should we be beholden to institutions that call disproportionate greed a necessity and hold the rest of society to ransom? I'm not a full-on commie, I respect the incentive that being free to make a profit brings, but there have to be reasonable restrictions in place when self-regulation fails as it has done in the West recently. The immoral *hoarding* of wealth to the detriment of wider society has to stop and the pay regime within individual corporations managed proportional to performance etc., not sheer brute force and selfishness. Ayn Rand's dream died with the 2008 financial crisis.

>>8532417
Look at the economy (you know the thing that's tells us how much of EVERYTHING we can afford) year by year of a socialist government and a right wing (neoliberal) government.
There is no better example of this then chile. Up to the 1980's it was socialist, stagnant economy 48% below the poverty line. After the 1980's neoliberal economic view, they have democracy, rapidly growing economy, and 20% below the poverty line (that was in 2000 not sure what it is now, cba to look up the CIA factbook). There is overwhelming evidence in history that left wing economics leads to stagnation and dictatorships, and right wing economics leads to growth and liberty. And before you try hit me with the liberal morality vs conservative morality. That doesn't apply to me I'm not a conservative I'm a libertarian. Credit where credits due though, I'm more accepted as a trans person because of the average liberal.

>>8532507
2008 crisis was caused by government changing the way they banks give out morgages. Not corporate greed. Which society doesn't run on greed? It's just in a capitalist society you get rich by giving people goods and services better or cheaper then the other person giving goods and services.

>>8532507
but there's no magic money tree which means money basically doesn't even exist and we didn't just bribe the DUP with a billion quid that didn't happen at all.
don't you understand? we're not allowed to spend any more money because austerity or something I don't know I haven't costed this argument.

File: image.jpg (31KB, 640x395px)

31KB, 640x395px

>>8532511
Forgot to include pic

>>8532517
socialism in chile really did improve lives for the workers though, things like hospitals and schools that would otherwise not have been there.

>>8532511
>right wing economics leads to growth and liberty
kek yeah that's worked out brilliantly for the UK, hasn't it?
qz com/996097/the-us-and-uk-are-now-the-slowest-growing-economies-in-the-g7/
independent co uk/news/business/news/uk-worst-performing-advanced-economy-world-post-brexit-slump-election-pound-sterling-a7766286.html
anotherangryvoice blogspot co uk/2017/03/british-workers-are-suffering-worst.html
theguardian com/commentisfree/2017/jun/07/austerity-britain-labour-neoliberalism-reagan-thatcher
independent co uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-wages-workers-ifs-warning-austerity-autumn-statement-a7436556.html

not to mention the financial crisis the Blairites and the USA's Alan Greenspan helped precipitate was caused largely by bank deregulation 'cause muh free markets

the only liberty right-wing economics supports is the liberty to have child slaves and the liberty to fuck over the rest of society for your own individual benefit, like I said, I'm not a full commie, but deregulation does not work, you have to have some level of restriction to avoid total hegemony of wealth to the most powerful handful of individuals. total, absolute freedom is impossible in ANY structured society or we'd be unable to punish anybody for committing a crime.

>>8532526
but the NAP robin, the NAP, didn't you know about the NAP????!!!!!!!

>>8531682
People can pay, the other filth you talk about is prison material. So if you and them are filth. Then yeah, you should starve.

Also, can they end support for abortion then? It's unseeded expensive and dangerous.

Might as well stop cancer because they nearly all die regardless.

File: image.jpg (90KB, 706x604px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 706x604px

>>8531624

A good estimate for a total MtF package is about $50k;

>http://health.costhelper.com/sex-reassignment-surgery.html
>the typical cost of a sex reassignment surgery can range from about $15,000 for just reconstruction of the genitals to about $25,000 for operations on the genitals and chest to $50,000 or more for procedures that include operations to make facial features more masculine or feminine

About 30,000 people have gotten SRS in the USA, and maybe 60,000 elsewhere for a total of 100,000 total worldwide. 100,000 * $50,000 = $5,000,000,000.

They do womb transplants in India, where doctors estimate the price to be $70,000;

>http://www.medgurus.org/uterus-transplant-the-india-connect/
>At present the cost of uterus transplant is estimated to be about US$70,000 (INR 47,85,550) in the U.S.

So 70,000 * 100,000 = 7,000,000,000 + 5,000,000,000 = $12,000,000,000 to take care of nearly every serious transsexual on Earth.

The US government's revenue in 2016 was 3.3 trillion - $33,000,000,000 is 1% of that. So for 0.36% of the US revenue, all the trannies get what they want.

File: image.jpg (133KB, 879x652px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 879x652px

>>8531789

>literally lowest priority bullshit, breeders need to kill themselves

One of my goals is to have twenty children and raise them to hate those who aren't them like Jews. If I have ten girls and ten boys, and each girl has twenty kids, that's 10 * 20 = 200, or a 2x population multiplier every reproductive cycle.

I'll conform to marriage laws pertaining to age, so my daughters will have to wait 18 years to reproduce. So every 18 + 20 years, or 38 years, my new race multiplies by 10. But it takes +18 years for the last born daughter to mature, so 38 + 18 = 56. So every 56 years, my population multiplies by ten.

So in 56, we'll number 200. In 112, there will be 2,000 of us. In 168 years, my children will number 20,000. In 224 years, 200,000 - in 280, 2,000,000. After 336 years, with 20,000,000 descendents, I'll be a nation.

Our motto will be, 'In Autism and Transsexuality, we trust.'

>3-D printed artificial ovaries
>necessary, high priority

Yeah, speaking of which, we can make eggs now as well to put into the ovaries. And like many prople have said - this eliminates the need for HRT.

>aggressive bone remodeling
>necessary, highest priority

That's what makes this so exciting. Not only do MtF's get to be women - they get to be cute women. The pelvis probably needs modification to carry a baby anyway, and the size of certain body parts determines whether you can pass, and so a very good excuse can be made for what would seem to be merely cosmetic procedures.

Also, you'll be able to select the kids who'll come from your eggs. So after you de-ugly yourself, your bloodline will forever be free from hidiousness and stupidity.

File: image.jpg (158KB, 1000x622px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 1000x622px

>>8531802

>With so many children needing adopting in this world, anything that "allows" people to fuck with nature and create biological babies really ticks me off

The first world shouldn't stop having kids because the third world can't pay for their own children. I can get behind first worlders using less and helping out third worlders, but ceasing to reproduce is suicide.

>A baby is not "more" yours just because it shares your genes

Either the baby belongs to the woman who gave birth to it, or it belongs to the state because she's sick. If it belongs to the woman, than it is mine.

>and we really don't know how these Frankenstein babies from something other than sperm and egg will grow up to be genetically

Currently, they can make eggs from skin cells;

>http://www.nature.com/news/rudimentary-egg-and-sperm-cells-made-from-stem-cells-1.16636

They've actually taken this all the way in mice;

>http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/10/mouse-egg-cells-made-entirely-lab-give-rise-healthy-offspring

So my kids will grow from cells of extraordinary providence, but everyday constitution. Coincidently, this means that I'll be able to select which of my two alleles my kids inherit - my heterozygosity for various light pigmentation alleles can be transformed into homozygosity in my children. That is, all my eggs will contain only the alleles that cause light pigmentation - if I breed with a light man who's sperm are also homozygotic, my kids are guaranteed to be blue eyed and blond or red haired.

File: image.jpg (66KB, 894x596px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 894x596px

>>8532302

Well, the thing is that transplanting a pelvis is fairly extensive surgery.

What you do is kill the old bone, and induce it's molecular breakdown. As you do this, you insert bioscaffolds filled with the materials mentioned in the third link into the area, and a new bone based on those scaffolds grows. Look up the 'Bio-pen' - the new bone will be drawn inside of your body through a single access incision.

There might be a hospital stay, but you'd want to be using the new bones as soon as possible to assure they grow properly - the way they're used provides traction, and nothing beats natural walking, arm extension, etc.

>>8531638
>>8531682
its not like they are using these services on a whim for some fetish. They have a mental (or genetic depending on how you see it) disease that causes makes them the wrong gender.

>>8532526
Part of that is because they're already very developed nations though, not saying inequality isn't hurting the economy (spoilers: it is) but a large section of that is just because unlike somewhere that's dirt poor with a lot of room to grow, being at or near the top is like being a plant a few inches away from the ceiling, not a lot of room to grow

>>8532513
Every capitalist society runs on greed, but that doesn't mean greed is unambiguously good. If I recall, a major factor in the 2008 crisis was that banks were permitted to put their customers' money into risky investments and they ended up losing. Now granted, the government did end up bailing them out because it was the only way to prevent utter economic disaster, but that was really the lesser of two evils. The real issue was allowing the banks to take such risks with the money of customers who thought their money would be only invested safely.

>>8532931
>being unable to pay for medical treatment means you belong in prison

>>8533078

Is that an FtM? If so how did they tolerate imagining themselves as a female bombshell like that even as a child?

>>8531802
Fuck the third world, I couldn't give less of a fuck if poor people have too many kids when first world birth rates are abysmal. Besides, when the world collapses due to global warming and they start flooding first world countries I doubt theyll give anymore of a fuck about me than I do about them desu

>>8533961
:^)

>>8532381
Nah, they are not salty, but now only scared to back their agenda up.

inb4 "samefag"

>>8536282
If the First World gave a fuck about the Third World now, then perhaps the circumstances that result in Third Worlders flooding into the First World will cease to exist. Also keep in mind that a lot of the First World is in areas that will be particularly geographically susceptible to climate change. The places that are Third World now may in fact be where First Worlders end up fleeing when things get really bad.

>>8537376
so the First World and the Third World are in effect becoming each other.
maybe now we can just call it The World.
>inb4 get out globalist scum reeeeee

>>8537376
Fuck that, let Florida, Lousiana, Ho-land, London, Venice, Singapore, Nice, Rio, Porto Algere, Naplies and Portugal drown!

Let California, Dixie, An-Alducia, Sicily, Greece, Macedonia and Australia burn.

Let the 'Murican southeast coast, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore get smacked with Typhoons like Todd Bertuzzi is throwing them.

>>8537456
So what does that leave?
Russia, China and India?
Are you sure that's what you want?

>>8537471
No, India gets fucked worse than anybody, except maybe the Caribean and Arabs.

>>8537486
What about Africa and the Middle East.
You didn't enact any plaques on them.
Are you an angry black man by any chance?

>>8537516
I'm not doing anything! I'm just saying who gets fucked by "global warming" or whatever you want to call that fad.

>>8531965
Holy fuck, which ones?

>>8531573
>

how would this even work?

the male body doesnt have the same organs as the female one

>>8539024
iirc the swedish and possibly the germans

>>8531937
Collectivist scum wants to dictate the rights of every ant in the ant colony that is their worldview of Man. Everything for le good of le hive! And nothing that resembles individual happiness.

>>8531573
womb transplants for trans women could never work. Wrong skeletal construction, wrong hormonal profile, unknown risks to the child that make the ethical implications beyond the pale

>>8543184
>wrong hormonal profile
what is HRT

>>8543201
> what is a menstrual cycle

>>8543211
what are stem cell ovaries
what are stem cell uteruses

>>8531573
>You make a new bone in a mold, and implant it into the body. This would allow Facial Feminization Surgery to be taken to the next level, and the long bones and spine to be shortened and the pelvis reshaped.
I'd say you're jumping the shark, but you've missed the shark tank entirely

>>8531573

Jesus CHRIST that is taking things too far. Like, I get your dysmorphia is real, but this isn't just mutilating yourself anymore. Can you imagine anything more fucked up than being born purely as someone's self determination project? I am a woman therefore I must have a child see how much of a woman I am?

Sex and gender are two different things. Live and present and be a woman, but quit trying to turn yourself into a female.

>>8546053
Stop being a creepy hon. Sex is all that matters.

>>8546053
>but quit trying to turn yourself into a female.
why tho?

>>8546547
kys

So as a gay man I have to know. Can I have a child with my DNA and the DNA of my boyfriend?

>>8546053
No one is 'trying' to 'turn into a female'. That's what your ilk doesn't seem to grasp.

We're already female. Our bodies simply don't reflect what you perceive as female because we have a condition beyond our control. So no* children will be born as 'self-determination projects', they'll be born to women who are desperate to become mothers because that's part of many women's experiences and desires.

*Inevitably some outlier will latch onto a group and perform heinous actions; this small sampling does not disqualify the needs of the full membership of the group.