Maybe /lgbt/ is the wrong place for a serious theological discussion,

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>god
how fucking spooked can you be?

>>8520667
Because if god exists he gives absolutely no shits about us?

Because boipucci, of course

>>8520667
stop this doesnt make any sense

Easy. To show that if you sincerely repent from the sins of the flesh without the aim to reproduce you can be saved.

>>8520667
Does God need a reason?

I'll state first that I am not a Christian. If I had to describe my religion it would be "Jungian". That said I have a theory. It is based on the observation that non-Abrhamic soceities seemed to have their gays in harmony. There were no gays forming "identities" no a strong opposition to them.

I'll also say that I am really only thinking about gay men here, I have no interest in lesbians are trannies, so I don't know if this will be useful to you.

In one of Plato's dialogue he mentions a form of Venus that is responsible for malexmale love. I found it interesting that in a human relationship that deals entirely with men the spiritual aspect is feminine. In Aztec societies there is also a female deity that governs malexmale love (forget her name). I think psychologically people need to conceptualize things in a balanced way. So if there is no "femininity" in the physical plane it needs to be made up for in the spiritual one. This leads me to concluding that if you are a gay man it is more spiritually healthy to put your attention on feminine deities rather than male ones.

That said I'll also throw out LGBT analysis of religion is horrible to read because these people have clear political agenda and want to say all the ancient societies were drag queens.

God isn't real

I only pretend to be religious (Christian) because it makes me more passable.

>>8520667
As cannon fodder for an invasion of dirt monkeys like Muslims. While the gays are being killed all the normal people can prepare to fight the Muslims.

If God existed, she's clearly either gay (male) or transgender.

Otherwise, the would have fuqqqed reality into existence rather than creating it.

>>8520710
Because what good is life when there isn't something to fuck it up.

>>8520667
To curb overpopulation.

>>8520667
>religion
Could we stop the meme that religion is a healthy state of mind?

>>8521479
Kek is not pleased with you normie.

God didn't, deviance from an ideal standard of pre-fall man (I.e., everyone but Jesus) is one of the consequences of the Fall. It's part of the aftermath of original sin. God created perfection, Adam and Eve created distortions.

t. Amateur theologian

>>8521467
The supreme deity as having both masculine and feminine side is a very common thing. I'll throw out some examples

-Neo-platonic Paganism: There is a single deity all the well known deities are aspects of the supreme one. So the supreme deity would have both the masculinity of Zeus and the femininity of Hera

-Kabballah: The Old Testament God is divided into 10 'parts' 1 part is masculine, 1 part is femine, the rest are genderless

-Old Testament: Yawheh is usually described as masculine but some passages describe him in feminine terms. Two I remember are one where she is nourishing her people with her breasts and one where the Rabbis are described as the husband of her.

-Christianity: There is a 4th part to the trinity but it's an obscure bit. She's actually cannon in Catholic and Orthodox tradition. The Gnostics were the ones that made a big deal out of her, while the other sects have almost 0 theology about her. Her name is Sophia.

>>8520667
I'm grateful God made me trans. I don't know why I am, if it's a reward for something or a test or what.

Other trans people should be grateful too. I don't don't know about the rest of the LGBT.

>>8521547
Christianity is easier than that. The dove, symbol of 'the Holy Spirit', is Semiramis from the Tamuz story. The feminine half.

>>8521515
I can't think of a less human thing to say than that the natural state is "evil" and "fallen". I can perfectly understand why early Christians were thrown to the lions, they would not have considered either. If you really believe that than you worship a demon.

>>8521583

The mere presence of death is a pretty clear sign that nature is not perfect. Secularism and Christianity agree on this, Christianity just adds that things were originally perfect.

>>8521560
Very interesting. Do you have any reading material covering this.

An interesting tibet about the dove. In some traditions Sophia is identified as the holy spirit (the dove's symbol).

>>8521583
Oh boo hoo people mention that human nature is rather awful and that triggers you. Go and look at the real world for a few minuets and then try to tell me that human nature isn't evil.

I don't need religion to be moral.

However I appreciate that they help people find comfort in it during difficult times, but it becomes a problem if you shut out reason because of it.

Plus I I want to to believe there's some kind of force unexplainable by science that governs all kinds of odd stuff

>>8521597
No, I'm sorry I don't. I got this info from a long Mark Passio presentation on YouTube, although https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramis should be a good start.

The dove runs even through modern times. Dove is 'Colombe' in French. As in District of. Between Mary-land and Virgin-ia. And what is the tallest building in Colomb-ia? That's right, Nimrod's (Horus') cock. Now what would a literal cock be doing in the midst of three feminine-symbolizing landmasses before a reflecting pool and a literal representation of a breast, I wonder?

>>8521594
>The mere presence of death is a pretty clear sign that nature is not perfect

What a pityful existence you have. Without death there wouldn't be any life. You just see everything in the world as one big mistake don't you? Life is wrong, suffering is wrong, death is wrong. You arn't even aware that you insulted every person on this board but referring to them as "fallen" and "evil", and it's a very deep insult.

>>8521601
Human nature is Garbage in, Garbage out, and Quality in, Quality out. There is no set 'human nature' beyond the ability to mostly reprogram oneself.

We are both the marble and the sculptor...to a point (and that point is the reptilian brain).

>>8521633
Keep telling yourself that. That way you won't have to worry about improving yourself for something other than meaningless stimulation.

>>8521622
This just sounds the ramblings of the insane. Why would a bunch of colonialist era Deists give a shit about some dead guy's penis?

>>8521633
The only garbage here is you. Even the fucking trannies here who hate half their identity are higher creatures you. At least those people are TRYING to function with their fucked up nature and some of them even succeed, you on the other hand think that your brain is a mistake (maybe it is LOL).

>There is no set 'human nature'
So now we've got it settled. You either don't know how genes and hormones work or you don't beleive in them. Are you one of those types that thinks Darwin is a conspiracy?

>>8521611
Yeah you do. People are not naturally moral and need something else to be so. You seem to be driven to act moral to look like a good person. You are no different from SJWs.

>>8521665
>If you don't believe in invisible cosmic beings that decide on the moral laws of human life, you are obviously incapable of genuine mortality!

>I'm not trying to look righteous! You are!

please be trolling dude... please...

>>8521665
>People are not naturally moral

There is no set defination of morality. It's just a word people use as a short hand for a list of values they like and dislike.

The SJW have their morality, so do the Christians, Muslims, and every individual person on the planet. There is no "one true morality" but a collection of them.

>>8521661
Well since both of these posts were mine, I'll consolidate this.

Yes, I'm sure all the symbology of Washington is completely accidental. I'm also certain you have no clue what I'm actually talking about. Enjoy your cluelessness, Unbegun.

I'm not even sure what the second half of your spiel is referencing. Somehow I'm garbage for pointing out that the only 'human nature' is our ability to be good or bad depending on the input (environment, genetics, teachings, and experiences) that we get. Bad input will NEVER equal good output. That you can't figure that out either just makes you laughable.

>>8520667

If God created LGBT people, it could be that a certain percentage gives humanity overall some advantage(s) it wouldn't have otherwise, as a result of the diversity it brings. This could be connected to something stereotypical like creativity, or something nobody's thought up yet.

It could also be said that LGBT wasn't actually intended. That's not to say it's bad, just not necessarily within the original plan of creation.

>>8521709
This is what you sound like to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdnp957zBpI

>>8521720

Well this is a start. Essentially you need to find something that lgbt people do better than straights. Very good, basically try to rise up rather than moping around about being a 'mistake' or 'fallen'.

One of my thoughts is that trannies are incredibly talented at following. They are essentially a group of people that base their entire identity on how others evaluate them. This makes them very attuned to how they are being evaluated. There are all sorts of roles in society that need talented followers.

A lesser observation is that homosexual males seem to be good at teaching. I think it has to do with the fact that most gays seem to be childish and immature, so they can relate better to young people (I'm including teens and young 20 something in the category of young people).

>>8521753
>This is what you sound like to me.
It's okay, I've dealt with silly people and their failures in the 20 Point Problem long enough to not be offended by it. =)

>>8521677
Oh please you don't even believe in morality don't even try saying that I'm not genuine. I know that you people hate the idea of there being more that just the universe and that your actions mean something, but then again I don't need to worry. More active groups will ultimantly make people like you a dying breed if you aren't one already.

>>8521678
You comment is one of the biggest examples of why the west is dying to retards like Muslims. You clearly have no confidence in you morality and you vision of the world and can only saw what is wrong with everyone else, but then again fence sitters get nowhere in the long run. Have fun with your drugs and mindless sex which will result in an abortion. Means little to me.

>>8521764
Isn't using religion to act superior immoral? Because it doesn't really stop the most religious people.

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>God

I don't believe in God, and especially not in the God of Christianity or Islam: the idea is ridiculous.

>>8521776
Oh it is. Side note you clearly don't know my thoughts on religious people.

If God exists why did he create evil and subject humans and animals to it?

>>8521477
(((Overpopulation))) is a myth invented to make white people feel guilty about reproducing.

>>8521769
You're misunderstanding me. Acknowledging that other moral systems than your own exist isn't the same thing as they are all equal. Just like acknowledging how in a video game acknowledging there is more than one strategy doesn't mean all strategies are equal. In fact aknowledging the morality of others and learning about the system is the first step that comes before destroying it. Just like how if you wanted to destroy another person in a video game the first step would be learning their strategy.

You arn't going to get anywhere talking about how you have the white hat and everyone else has the black hat. You are just going to sound like a babboon.

This probably isn't the best place to discuss the nature of morality, you'll eventually need to hit up the Genealogy of Morality and than the discussion leaves LGBT zone entirly.

>>8521753

Also there have been societo-religious settings that have actually prized and highly valued their LGBT members. There's a connection with shamanism, for example. Also note the very old two-spirit concept in Native American societies

>>8521792
Because evil is needed to make life worth while. I know that nowadays people are entitled little shits, but reality is cold/cruel and that creates a strong society of people who push through the tough times and become stronger.
In short life isn't about perfection, but learning to deal with the struggles and keep moving forward.

>>8521813
I know you can subvert a morality system. However as you mentioned it is to destroy it and destroying a morality system has pretty bad result because people will just go to another one or act like deviants and deviants provide nothing to the world.

>>8521753
>There are all sorts of roles in society that need talented followers.
Can you give some examples?

>>8520667
because God likes soap operas

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God obviously put gay people here to test people's various reactions to them (including gay people's reactions to their own existence). He's carefully observing you, your thought processes, how you construct and define morality. He wants to reveal how you think and view life...

>>8520722
Anon you're too smart for this website can you kindly leave?

>>8521894
Office jobs, secretary work. Basically any job where a superior hovers over you and gives you orders. Something where they will give you constant feedback and you will trust their leadership. Someone who has leadership urges or a strong sense of independent could not handle that job they would hate it. On the other hand someone that craves validation and is good at following would fit naturally into it.

From what I have read there are a lot of trannies in programming teams. Which fits that description perfectly.

>>8522017
Also city/county jobs. Clerk, post office stuff.

>>8521946
God does not test people. There is actually a proverb about this, and I can find it if you like.

>>8521949
Should I dumb it down by saying Mother Marry and Kali are sugoi desu-nai?

>>8522052
Don't pretend you don't understand what I wrote.

>>8522052
God does not DIRECTLY test people.

He allows them to be tested quite readily. Witness the entire Book of Job.

>>8521946
I think that believing that a father figure is always hovering over and judging you is mentally unhealthy. It sounds like the thought process of a mentally stunted and fearful child that never learned to develop independent thoughts.

The entire function of spirituality is to help you develop as an individual. Some sort of theology that starts by saying that your existence is an accident or 'test' ought to be thrown out. To put it even in more extreme forms we need spiritual approaches that take what we are already born with (being fags) and say to weaponize it.

>>8522164
Why do you assume my stance on gay people ? I genuinely don't know the will of God regarding us, and I've already spent years trying to, and I have the extremely uneasy feeling that things will stay that way, which is why I believe that God is intently not revealing too clearly His will because He wants our genuine reaction. I'm not even sure what you mean by weaponizing it.

Why the fuck do you people believe in the god of the jews, are you retarded?

>>8522246
There's only one God, everything else IS retarded.

>>8522254
And how can you prove that your One God exists?

>>8522262
Just reflect upon it all.

>>8522218
>and I have the extremely uneasy feeling that things will stay that way

Being unsure of your identity is terrible spiritually. It makes you lack direction and spend your time wondering about yourself instead of developing yourself in other ways. You've got a certain set of tools, your genetics, your psychology, money, connections. Being attracted to men is part of that arsenal. It makes you relate to people differently it also means you can 'get' a man in a way that no straight person can. That's what you need to "weaponize" you need to use to your advantage, I can't really put it any more clearly because it's ultimately up to you to decide what you're goal is in this life.

Spiritual approaches to homosexuality that have you running in circles questioning "why" you are gay or even worst making you regretful about are dangerous and self-harming.

>>8521554
Sometimes I curse God for this, but if I was cis I would probably not be as strong in character as I am. I don't know exactly what he's preparing me for but it must be something really difficult.

>>8520667
There's this thing called "Free Will" and you're using it right now to choose to be LGBT.

>>8522271
Yeah sure, and Jesus was a muslim.

>>8522276
You talk of individuality and using things to one's advantage. You seem self-serving.
By the way I actually do not lack direction. Even though I do not know the will of God, I still know exactly what I will do...that's the genuine reaction I was talking about. My natural, instinctual, yet long thought-out reaction.

>>8522291
Why not ?

>>8520667
By the way, where would the right place be...?

>>8522313
Well I'm not Christian. I don't know if I can articulate my own religious views in a brief manner, I'm not part of any organized religions. And yes I am VERY selfish. My BF tells me I'm the most selfish person he knows which is comforting =D

I don't know exactly what you articulating. What I am seeing is that a lot of gay people get trapped thinking about their identity, I used to do that, that's not how you move forward. The big question isn't why you are gay but what you using your homosexuality for. I think that you do eventually figure out the "why" once you move forward in life enough.

>>8522277
Oh there's place for that type of despair. There's freedom in pain, it's not something to run from.

>>8522407
I'm not christian either.
You don't seem to be as interesting as you seem to think you are.

>>8520667
If i was some sort of deity, I'd make LGB people to test how loving and caring humanity is. Jesus is supposed to have said all this shit about do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and the likes, so I'd want to have something to gauge their empathy and sympathy constantly.

like, say, the presence of something strange and non-majority that is antithetical/unhelpful to the propagation of the species.

T, on the other hand... there's no real reason to have people who's mental health is fucked so harshly...

although I'd just have it so that people reproduce and stuff, so i don't have to make every single human

like how it is now...

God didn't make you LGBT, He gave you free will. That is the whole reason why people can sin. That is the whole reason why Adam and Eve disobeyed and were cast out. Christ has made it clear that what you are doing is a sin. You don't know God, thinking that He made you the way you are is just you trying to shift blame for your fucked up mind. Repent.

>>8520667
I'm a Muslim. I believe it's just as a test and since our test is harder our reward will be greater

>>8521456
I hate to break it to you pal, but early Islam didn't kill gays, Christianity did though.

Sharia law is relatively new and was made up by a group of old men around a table, not Muhammad. There's not a single verse in the Quran that's against homosexuality. Look it up for yourself.

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>>8523490
>le "being LGBT is a choice" meme

Hate is a choice, love is a state of being.

>>8523501
If you think Hadith is not part of Islam despite being the Prophet's direct teachings, you're not Muslim.

>The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done (38:4447).

>>8523514
There is no love in carnal perversion, just carnal perversion and sin.

>>8523522
Do not be deceived, there is no love in misunderstanding.

>>8523518
Yeah no, the Hadith isn't part of Islam. It's something written after the prophet was dead, it's the word of man, not the word of God. It's been changed over and over, and most Muslims know it. They just don't know what to do, since some of it is correct.

I openly reject the Hadith. I'm a quranist muslim.

>>8523577
Rejecting the Hadith on principle seems to be a very bad idea since many hadith have the exact same level of authenticity as the Quran, that is, mutawatir.

>>8523588
Total rejection as a part of religion isn't bad. It's logical, since we know 100% as a fact that mu'awiah and yazid changed the Hadith for their own gain. That and the Hadith was written well after the prophets death, changed and added to over 200 years.

For history, some things like how to pray? Sure, it's fine. For justifying offensive wars? Killing Jews? Killing other sects of Islam? They can roll that Hadith up, sprinkle some chilli powder on it and stick it where the sun don't shine.

>>8523605
What about, say, the hadith regarding the end times ? Do you reject them too ?

>>8523636
Yes I do

My school of thought is mu'tazillia. I'm a rationalist, not a crazed psycho that thinks the world will end when women wear short skirts.

>>8523649
How do you explain, then, that so many prophecies in the hadiths are so accurate ?
Anyway, the Quran DOES speak against at least some forms of homosexuality, if not all of it, you can't deny it.

7:81 "Indeed you approach males in lust in place of women..."
Arabic: اِنكُمْ لَتَاْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ شَهْوَةً مِّنْ دُوْنِ النِّسَآءِ

26:165-166 "What! Do you approach the males of the worlds and forsake those whom your Lord has created for you for your mates?"
Arabic: آ تَاْتُوْنَ الذُّكْرانَ مِنَ الْعلَميْنَ \ وَتَذَرُوْنَ مَا خَلَقَ لَكُمْ رَبُّكُمْ مِّنَ اَزْوَاجِكُمْ

27:55 "Will you indeed approach males in lust in place of women?"
Arabic: آ ئِنكُمْ لَتَاْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ شَهْوَةً مِّنْ دُوْنِ النِّسَآءِ

29:28-29 "Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you; What! do you come unto the males and cut the passageways and commit evil in your clubs?"
Arabic: اِنكُمْ لَتَاْتُوْنَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُمْ بِهَا مِنْ اَحَدٍ مِّنْ الْعلَمِيْنَ \ آ ئِنكُمْ لَتَاْتُوْنَ الرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُوْنَ السَّبِيْلَ وَتَاْتُوْنَ فِي نَادِيْكُمْ المُنْكَرَ

>>8523673
Remember that time Mohammed saved a trans girl from being stoned though?

>>8523705
>saved a trans girl
We're not sure exactly what mukhannath exactly mean. It could have been several things. By the way, according to the hadith, the reason he didn't ordered him to be killed is because that person prayed. I also believed you rejected the hadiths, are you selective ?

>>8523716
mukhanath obviously means a tranny in this context, and several Muslim countries have ruled that transsexualism is permissible as long as you aren't some dickgirl degenerate.

>>8523776
No it's not obvious, it could just have been a guy who liked to dye his feet and hands with henna for some reason. Furthermore, I'd rather be extremely careful when it comes to authorizing things.

>And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.
Surah 4:119

I'd sooner authorize homophilia, as long as it doesn't involve anal sex, or a guy that's attracted to women doing someting with a dude, or two guys actively wanting their love to be recognized. It seems more natural to me.

>>8520667
This is condition created by original like, like many other temptations to mortal sin. I try to avoid mine.

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>>8523912
>This is condition created by original like
What ?

>>8520667
Christian transgender/gay guy here.

Disregarding the Old Testament (because obviously Jesus died to abolish the sins and chains of it), the New Testament has three references to homosexuality being a sin. However there is a lot of dispute on this as the original translation seems to mean "acts of sexual deviance" which may be referring to rape, pedophelia, etc., and not homosexuality. Also bearing in mind that monogamous, faithful gay relationships were unheard of at the time, but it was quite common for slave-owners to rape young children, including men raping young boys. The three verses were only changed to mean "all relationships between the same sex" in 1946. Also, Jesus = love, and just as many gay relationships as hetero relationship are pure, holy love. I genuinely don't think Jesus would have an issue with gays, but He would condemn those who hate. Just my 2 cents.

>>8523955
It can even be argued that the sin of the Sodomites wasn't homosexuality, but adultery and rape (and the Quran seems to support this interpretation as well).

Really, how can God (who is Love) frown on any form of love, as long as it's based on mutual consent?

>>8524030
>any form of love
Dude, if you sincerely think people know what's best for them, you're delusional. Many sexual acts are violent, filthy, disrespectful and/or degrading. Including anal sex.

>>8524052
>You don't know your own love! ONLY I KNOW LOVE! FUCKING GAYS JUST WORSHIP LE FALSE LOVE ARTIFICIAL FUN

Why do Christians always act like they have a personal hotline with God himself? I'm sorry, the moment you give me a transcript from the big man that says anal sex is baddddd yo in clear fucking English not hebrew, I'll retract all of this.

But you can't. You're just imposing your own beliefs on the Divine. I'm sure the Divine will be grateful for it when the time comes for your judgment.

>>8524083
I'm. Not. A. Christian..

>>8520667
no no no

people created God (that doesn't mean God isn't real)

>>8524116
Your kind will burn in Hell. Deniers of mere logic.

>>8524116
If a god's existence is dependent on his worshipers' belief in him, he is not so much a god as a parasite.

>>8523522
>>8523501
>>8524052

Why are you even on this board? You clearly don't like anything about the lgbt.

Get a fucking life.

>>8523955
I remember I saw a debate between some rabbis about their Old Testament and it concerned the exact Hebrew words when they said homosexuality is wrong. He was basically saying the word didn't mean morally wrong but unproductive, sort of like marrying a woman who is barren.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApvZ_k__aAM

>>8523912
Self-loathing like this is bad for your mental health. Stop it. Being hostile to your own sex drive had incredible dangerous outcomes. You can fuck yourself up permanently at the psychological level.

Do you actually think your deity would give you commandments that lead to a decline in your mental health? If you do that's no deity, that's a demon.

>>8524372
Talking against anal sex doesn't mean I'm not gay.
By the way, could you find this debate ?

>>8524388
Unfortunately I can't.

Might have some info here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Judaism#Reform_Judaism

I can tell you that the Reform branch of Judaism is probably going to be the one with the most lGBT accepting interpretations.

One thing I should throw out to people is that the Old Testament is written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek and that what people read now are translations, not the original text.

>>8524384
If you think your deity would give you commandments at all, you're fucking insane and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. In fact, you should be committed as a danger to yourself and the society around you.

>>8524110
Yeah yeah, you just *happen* to believe in the Abrahamic God.

Heard it all the time, backpeddlers never prosper. Go rage about fags fucking each other in the ass over on the Christian News Network comments section.

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>>8520667
I'm episcopalian and talked with my pastor over this at times. Basically he goes with we're all children of god and it's not our place to question his will. Sometimes I more or less think of it pic related as a reason. Besides that if you believe in god you believe we have some greater purpose to serve than just the ability to reproduce. Like to love one another, care for family, community service, etc.

>>8524515
Interestingly enough a woman is more likely to have gay children the more previous children she has had. So the hypothesis is sound.

>>8524474
I'm not a christian.
>>8524441
I'm sorry, but that's not true Judaism.

>>8524553
I don't think this is the place to argue over what is "true Judaism" and what isn't. There's people with a variety of religious beliefs.

If the conversation started at which religion, if any, are "true" we'd never get anywhere. We would never even get past 'does god exist'?

>>8524467
You're the insane one.

>>8524782
>NO U

Enjoy Jerusalem Syndrome.

>>8520667
GOD CREATES
GAYS
WOMEN
BLACKS
MUSLIMS
JEWS
RETARDS
AUTISM

God has a weird sense of humor, LOL inferiors

>>8524474
Er, you do know that a lot of different religions worship that same God, right? And not just Christians?

Jews, Muslims, Ba'hai, Ahmadiya, Yezidi (you probably never heard of these last three because you're American) and countless others.

These are the religions who have dominated the conversation on religion for the past 2000 years, so in a very real way, they define what it means to be religious. If you don't believe in God (and yes, I specifically mean THAT God), you aren't religious.

>>8524125
by "logic" do you mean "premises" or what? what are you trying to say?

>>8524130
there's literally no other way for a god to exist

>>8525108
Ahmadi ARE Muslims you stupid bigot.

>>8525108
>If you don't believe in God (and yes, I specifically mean THAT God), you aren't religious.

What a shallow view of religion. You sound like you're something out of the middle ages.

>>8525183
You understand nothing of these matters, you're foolish.

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>>8525521
please leave the premises sir, you are scaring the anchovies

>>8520667
>why God created LGBT people
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

>>8525722
>muh sky-daddy!

KYS

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>>8525739
You post like a kid.

>>8525263
>What a shallow view of religion.
You're not religious, you wouldn't understand.

You don't have to understand, but can we at least stop pretending that worshiping Odin or Jupiter is the same as worshiping God?

>>8525222
No they aren't, rofl

They literally believe that some poo-in-loo guy is the messiah. They're about as "Muslim" as Mormons are "Christian."

>>8526130

>but can we at least stop pretending that worshiping Odin or Jupiter is the same as worshiping God

Let's say you are primitive little caveman worshipping the sun your essentially practicing religion as best you can, you're simple too stupid to do it on a higher plane. The people that worship Odin, or the God of the new testament are in the same position. They are simply do the best they can with their limited knowledge.

This is not the best thread to discuss which interpretation of God is closer to the truth. It's a place to discuss how to interpret your religion, no matter what it is, in the context of LGBT thought. Whether God is a ball of fire, a man in a chariot, a guy on a cross, or something else is entirely removed from discussion of LGBT. It derails the thread.

Telling other people they are 'not religious' because they don't follow your religion is basically a tactic to try to get them to shut up. Which is a tactic for cowards and bitches.

>>8520667
To allow our species to take its natural course and prevent overpopulation

Also to test religio-nut zealots to see if their faith is unconditionally honest or just based off of narcissism and emotional self-righteousness

I agree with most of buddhism (theravada) because it just makes sense

>>8526344
Buddhism makes no sense. They believe the world has always existed, which is dumb.

>>8526348
Questions of what created the world, how we came about, and if there is a god are questions the Buddha never answered because they are not conductive to detachment

>>8526348
That's pretty much what you get from science.

Everything is made of matter. Matter cannot be created only change form. So essentially nothing was ever created so there can't be a start. And since matter cannot be destroyed there can't be an end either.

The Greeks came to the same conclusion about the universe having always existed.

The only reason it sounds weird to us is because we are from a Christian society who's theology demands the universe have a beginning and end.

The real cool stuff comes once you start getting into theories about the Eternal Recurrence. In this mode everything is on a loop. It just takes a few trillion years for each 'cycle' of the universe to play out. Think of the concept of a season but applied to everything.

>>8526361
>the question of wether there is a God is not conductive to detachment
Nonsense
>>8526373
God creates matter.
The greeks weren't as great from a scintific point of view as you seem to think they were.
Everything being on a loop makes it uninteresting and boring.

>>8525521
>No No No Dont have an opinion, youre opinion is wrong and sends you to hell
>But youre opinion makes no sense
>you dont understand NO OPINIONS ALLOWED REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8526398
ok But there are thousands of religions, so how do you know that youre god is 100% the real god? Just because youre parents or the local priest told you? Yes christianity was forced upon you and me, same as Islam, Buddhism, Hindu, Scientology was forced upon others

>>8526398
>God creates matter.
Those are 3 words you do not know the meaning of.

The fact that you can type them doesn't mean you know them any better than a parrot. Your thought process seems to be stuck in the middle ages at best.

>>8526436
Why does everyone keep assuming I'm a christian ? This is starting to bother me.
>>8526439
And I suppose you understand them much better than me ?

>>8526475
If you are still thinking of "matter" as something "created" (as in creation=made from nothing) than you do not know what either of those words mean. And since your whole notion of 'God' is wrapped around this flawed understand it means that your understanding of that word also more or less equals garbage.

The point of this thread though is to discuss lgbt conceps within religion. You trying to say that only your particular view of religion is "valid" is basically you telling everyone else to shut up. The only way any discussion can happen in this thread is if we all agree to accept each other's definition of God as equally valid. So a guy that worships fire, all the factions of Christians/Muslims etc. can all get a say about how their religion views lgbt stuff. If someone wants to say that their theology is the "one true one" than we stop talking about that. Appeals to your religion's authenticity or only going to be interesting to people already a part of it.

>>8526526
You talk as if all religions and beliefs were equally credible. You're a funny man. Furthermore, OP mentionned God, so polytheism, fire-worship, atheism and the like => in the dustbin.

>>8526436
Muslims worship the same God as every other religion though.

Buddhists don't worship a god.

Hinduists worship a silly elephant man so who cares what the hell they think.

>>8526533
I don't believe any religion is equal to any and the difference between them is MASSIVE. I have extreme opinions on this stuff and I'm omitting them intentionally. I'm saying if you want to discuss lgbt stuff you have to put treat them as equal for the sake of the discussion.

Some Christian says that such and such theology is how his religion views LGBT. A guy from another religion (or someone with no religion) says that he is wrong because his religion is wrong. Que argueing back and forth about whether is his religion is "true".

Notice all of the discussions in this thread that DO involve LGBT stuff aren't about arguing the validity of the religion?

>>8526555
Apparently, this escaped you:
>OP mentionned God, so polytheism, fire-worship, atheism and the like => in the dustbin.

>>8526567
K than. Just keep derailing the thread every time someone makes a post concerning a religion you hate.

That will be wonderful for everyone involved.

>>8526611
You seem to lack intelligence.

Most pagan religions don't give a shit about lgbt people and actually do acknowledge their existence. Abrahamic religions are homophobic though.

I personally am quite spiritual and am agnostic about God. I think he/she made us like any other. I mean there's so many different types of people in the world, we are just one of them. We are here to learn and advance in our spiritual path.
I personally think gays/lesbians are special beings gifted with heightened awareness of their divine feminine (gay men) and masculine (lesbians). Of course trannies are in on that too, although I feel like trannies are more of an extreme manifestation.

>>8526639
>I personally am quite spiritual and am agnostic about God. I think he/she made us like any other
You seem to lack clarity of mind and consistency.

>>8526642
Why?

>>8526639
>I personally think gays/lesbians are special beings gifted with heightened awareness of their divine feminine (gay men) and masculine (lesbians). Of course trannies are in on that too

Could you elaborate on how you believe this is useful? I'm guessing it has to do with balance.

>>8526665
In some native american traditions they see androgynous or gay people as spititual helpers because we understand the male/female dynamic better, since both the masculine/feminine is united more in gay people. So we help with gender relations on some level. Also since many religions believe God to be both masculine and feminine, gays and lesbians are closer to understanding the true nature of God beyond its duality.

>>8526665
The problem is we have the wrong idea that religion is against lgbt people. Only the Abrahamic ones are, but most Abrahamic religions are devoid of spirituality (unless you go into Kabbalah or Gnosticism, and unsurprisingly those traditions also end up being more gay-friendly).
LGBT people in our society are nihilistic and demoralized as fuck because of this. It's sad because I think we have a very special experience on this earth and can enjoy spiritual and transcendent practices just like anyone else.

>>8526692
>most Abrahamic religions are devoid of spirituality
It is the practitioner, that may lack the Spirit. Were you a practitioner of all three so-called Abrahamic religions.? If not, shut up because you speak without knowledge. If yes, shut up, because you lacked the Spirit.

>>8526692
I wish I could participate in spirituality and be part of a strong community like that but there's no place for me

>>8526692
I agree with absolutely everything you say. The nihilism from religions from religions that feel alien to us is very unhealthy.

Than I got into Jung, that's where I get my spiritual fulfillment. I have noticed he is very popular with LGBT thinking.

>>8526742
Than you have to develop spirituality by yourself. It's not entirly a solitary thing, the subconscious is very activity in spiritual thinking so you sometimes reach results you really didn't think you were capable of. Basically divine epiphanies.

>>8526768
I'm only familiar with Jung in passing (and, ngl, mostly from Persona games), what in his philosophy resonated with you?

>>8526768
Jung was anti-gay. Idiot. "popular" doesn't mean anything.

>>8526774
I literally have a book on myself that contains everything Jung has ever said about homosexuality with commentary by an expert with 20+ years in the field.

He was CRITICAL of gays, he said a lot of harsh things about us. But he didn't hate us. For example he described gay men as childish and having a mother complex.

>>8526772
If I had to pick one word to describe his way of thinking it would be harmony. He organizes all the major parts of the psyche and in religion into pairs of opposites. Spirtual development is kind of bridging the gap between the two rather than trying to exclude one over another. So good and evil are two sides of the same scale so is feminine and masculine.

Life is basically a balancing act about opposites.

The thing you said about homos men being more in touch with "divine femininity" would kind of fit into his lexicon. Essentially a heterosexual man who is very masculine balances out his femininity by finding an effeminate woman. A gay person is much more likely to do the balancing act internally since they kind elements of both masculinity and femininity.

This isn't an idea unique to him. Taoism, Heraclitus, and a ton of other thinkers/philosophers go down the Harmony of Opposites path.

It's very at odds with certain types of Abrahamic thinking which need a clear distinction between God and his mortal enemy the Devil. The more esoteric parts of Jung conceptualize them as being the same entity.

>>8526844
>He was CRITICAL of gays, he said a lot of harsh things about us. But he didn't hate us. For example he described gay men as childish and having a mother complex.

Are you reading the shit you're typing?

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>>8526891
Boo hoo. He had something negative to say. How dare negative things be part of a criticism.

>>8520667
because G-d created all people, and free will permits sin.

>>8521479
>psychiatry isn't just a shitty religion

>>8526398
>Nonsense
Questioning the existence of a god will only lead to more rebirths.

>>8526963
most sinful acts are choices and not a fixed part of one's conception of self. LGBT simply are the way we are. To force someone to repress or deny their authentic self because it is "sinful" seems unnecessarily cruel.

>>8520667
To deal with the opposite sex while not being bound by the attraction to them.

Smart trannies if those ever existed would be able to make a fair comparison between the lives of both sexes.

>>8523776
Still leaves gays and bisexuals up for stoning or forced transition. Lesbians just get stonned.

>>8527414
>Lesbians just get stonned.
[citation needed]

>>8527459
Go check one of the 300 cases in the middle east if you care so much.

>>8527467
Source or it didn't happen.

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>>8527489
Are you fucking serious? You don't know that homosexuality is illegal in muslim countries? Am I being baited?

>>8527498
right? especially because it's a woman, laying with another woman, defiling themselves in the eyes of the lord.

>>8527523
You mean Allah.

>>8521547
I am from Greece, which is majority orthodox, and believe me, if you tell anyone there is a fourth part to the trinity named Sophia they'll either laugh in your face, or they'll get in a fight with you because you insulted their deity.

>>8521597
Okay, lets get something straight. "sophia" apart from being a (fairly common, here) name, is also a noun in Greek. It means literally "wisdom", and like all nouns in Greece, it has a gendered article, female in this case. The gender of an article however, is mostly unrelated to the word it accompanies, and exists more for predictive reasons. So I can see where you're getting the female part of the aspect from, though it seems fairly misguided.
Moving on, the Holy Spirit, of course, represents wisdom. In fact, in school, they teach us that that is one of the Spirit's main features. So what has led you to believe that wisdom is a separate, fourth aspect of the Trinity (and that it's canon in Orthodoxy)? And what does the Spirit then represent for you?

>>8527539
eh they're all the same.

>>8527578
Only if you have no understanding of the religions which in this case you should shut your mouth.

>>8527586
Nah I'm good. All Abrahamic religions are trash.

>>8527600
There are some good teachings on Christianity and Judaism, writing it off like that only makes you look ignorant.

>>8527608
I don't care to put the disclaimer of the fact that all things come in shades of gray for those who will read things in absolutes on 4chan.

>>8527654
You're guessing, you literally don't know me enough to know if I read things in absolutes.

>>8527658
I didn't say you did.

God created gay people to control the population, since gays dont have kids, usually.

>>8527667
Then don't write a reply like that to me.

>>8527727
What's got your knickers twisted, anon?

>>8527735
This retarded line of posts.
>"oh it's the lord"
>"nope killed at a muslim country so it's allah"
>"same thing"
>"nope the teachings of christianity and islam are different"
>"all abrahamic religions are trash"
>"nope there are useful teachings in two of them"
>"I don't talk about shades in 4chan"
>"you don't know if I will read in absolutes"
>"never said you would"
It's ridiculous it's retarded and there's moving goalposts all the way, and now a "u mad" from a sore loser that has nothing worthwhile to say.

>>8527745
But we weren't arguing. I'm genuinely curious why you're worked up over nothing.

>>8527756
Moving goalposts is always a good way to sound stupid, and I'd hate to imagine someone is that stupid. And this is 4chan, everything is arguing.

>>8527764
I'm legit not arguing, so I'm just not going to care about my tone or whether my use of language seems like a fallacy. Not everything is arguing, you will be happier if you relax. I'm honestly a little concerned. Anyways I'm not one to argue about religion, I was a devout Christian in my youth, and of course I still carry some of the teachings, but I still think overall the world is better off secular, or at least without the bloodthirst and methods of control that poured from the Abrahamic religions, which is why I called 'em trash. I guess that's my real argument.

>>8527772
>comes to a theological discussion thread to not discuss
What the fuck are you even doing here?

Yeah sure some sects of Christianity have many problems, but most of them don't even come from the new testament, which is of course ridiculous that they even call themselves christians.

Besides that most of the significant problems come from the interpretations that many priests make of the old testment. People should read those texts themselves so they can reach their own conclusion.

>>8527789
>what the fuck am I even doing
Why I was making a shitpost of course. I get bored, like you said, it's 4chan.
People should read for themselves. But they never will. They just wanna be led, feel good about themselves and use the god card.

>>8523501
Well that should be comforting to me when i'm thrown off a building by abdullah

>>8527797
>he finds shitposting more entertaining than a good discussion
Truly the opiate of the plebs.
>people will never read
Of course they will, people read now more than ever before, that's just a lazy defeatist answer.

>>8524083
>says anal sex is baddddd yo in clear fucking English

one look at a prolapsed anus should convince you of this

>>8527824
Unless you're having sex with a horse, a prolapsed anus is no concern.

>>8526844
>The more esoteric parts of Jung conceptualize them as being the same entity.
Which is why everything he ever said ever should be discarded without any drop of mercy, if he truely said such a thing.

>>8527821
>looking for a good discussion /lgbt/
Not a chance my friend.
>people read now more than ever
People read more garbage now than ever before, you mean. Sure, reading is reading, but The Book isn't exactly leisure reading, and here in the U.S. the ability of the populace to read at even a high school level is appalling. I've tutored English and it's really depressing. I have met around 2 people in my age group (20-28 I guess) who have read the book for themselves, also former Christians. I know maybe like 5 people who actually enjoy reading literature period.

>>8527844

Wow. You can't possibly believe this in 2017

>>8527414
I don't care, I'm not gay or lesbian. That's their problem, not mine.

>>8527562
Your pretty much in the territoriality of heretics when you conceptualize her as a 4th distinct entity.

I was being kind of polite about by saying only the Gnostics really emphasized her.

>>8527862
>not a chance
Maybe not with you.
>People read more garbage now than ever before
You have no idea what you are talking about, look at africa, for centuries most parts of the world were like that, a few hundred years ago people were like that. Several places in the world are a lot worse than the US, which is actually one of the best places where you can find people studying the bible as a philosophy rather than a mythology.

>the ability of the populace to read at even a high school level
Because they don't find interest on what's put before them, people read articles stories and comics because they find it interesting. It's not the human nature's fault that the western schooling system was designed to beat the will to learn out of any child.

It doesn't take much to change people's mind on that.

>>8527870
Anal sex doesn't cause anal prolapse that's a well known fact to everyone who did it before.
>>8527871
So you're willing to become the property of an inbred muslim just to piss off the west? I hope you like sadism because you won't go many weeks without some lashings.

>>8527883
Comparing continents full of 2nd and 3rd world countries to the leader of the free world is ridiculous.
You can't blame the schooling system for everything. I've sat in English classes where the teacher truly loved literature and wanted to share her passion for it and nobody gave a damn.

>>8526639
>Most pagan religions don't give a shit about lgbt people
You shouldn't trick yourself into believing this, It simply isn't true, for example we know the Vikings drowned homosexuals, in Greece although (only) practised by the extremely rich a vast majority of people were disgusted by it etc.

>>8527897
>Comparing continents full of 2nd and 3rd world countries to the leader of the free world is ridiculous.
It's not, it's a case for study, there's a reason why some countries are 2nd and 3rd world why others aren't. Culture, which includes religion, is one of those differentials.

Sure the masses read a lot of garbage but the amount of people who don't read just garbage is much higher in said countries, despite of course, the internet being available in said third world countries.

>I've sat in English classes where the teacher truly loved literature and wanted to share her passion for it and nobody gave a damn.
Probably because the theme itself is rather uninteresting. It takes a lot of skill to change that.

>>8527900
>the Vikings drowned homosexuals
Source?

>>8527871
You seem to be lacking in empathy.

>>8527926
I did a quick google search and stumbled upon http://spangenhelm.com/homosexuality-viking-world/

>Roman historian, Tacticus, when describing Germanic law and offenses said that “moral infamy (cowardice and homosexuality) was punished by throwing the condemned into a bog

>>8527941
That's after the christian influence though.

>>8527950
>Tacitus
>christian influence
Christianity hadn't spread to Germany or northern Europe at this point let alone influenced the populace.

>>8527955
Well then I'm getting some conflicting information, because I know for a fact that by the point where the romans cataloged norse culture christianity had already made a huge impact on them.

>>8527935
Empathy with God trumps empathy with people. Quit trying to guilt-trip people into accepting your values, that's sociopathic behavior.

>>8528028
Last I checked the tranny was the muslim lover that didn't cared about forcing their values on the west.

>>8527959
Nigga the jesus cult was barely extant outside of Judaea in the early 2nd century when tacitus wrote about the germans and the gospels were being put to pen concurrently. Early Christian ministers didn't go to Germania, they went farther East to Persia and India or to other areas of the Mediterranean region. Germania was harsh, cold, uncivilized and ripe with violent barbarians. Why bother when you have so many other pagans to convert instead?

There's two possibilities, as I see it.

God needs to strengthen you immensely

Or

God needs you not to take your gender/sexuality for granted

>>8520667

Knowing Him, it's another one of dem tests.

>>8527824
>>8527870
literally repeating victorian era myths

you couldn't even use the incontinence meme you had to use an old wives tale instead

are you gonna tell people who masturbate they're going blind next?

>>8528073
They're not my values, they're God's values. Find another thread to troll if you've got a problem with God.

>>8528626
>muh skydaddy
>on /lgbt/

Find another board to troll if you believe in "God"

>>8528626
You're basically making God your sock-puppet.

>>8520667
The devil made LGBT, not God.

>>8520667
/lgbt/ is the wrong place for a serious theological discussion

>>8528719
According to you, the Devil seems to have a great many powers, being able to create love itself...God would seemingly be powerless in front of that unpredicted love, unable to turn it into something that suits his holy purposes. I know your next argument, you're gonna say that there is no such thing as gay love. You're unwise to think you know enough. You see a shell, and mistake it for the fruit that is inside. (yes, that pun was intended)

>>8528719
Enjoy hell, blasphemer.

>>8527900
Greece was gay as fuck including much of their mythology. Norse mythology has punishments for effeminate acting men, but topping a guy wasn't seen as effeminate.
I'm not saying lgbt people were celebrated or anything. Sometimes they were treated badly, other times they were accepted, most of the time there was indifference. Which is the way it should be, honestly.

>>8528785
>Norse mythology has punishments for effeminate acting men, but topping a guy wasn't seen as effeminate.
This is the worst kind of hypocrisy and anyone who ever abides by it must die and burn in hell.

>>8528785
>>8528805

While the degree of harshness is not something we want today the basic message is something good. Man the fuck up. Just because you are gay doesn't mean you need to be a faggot. I'm not talking about what you wear or the type of anime you watch, I'm talking about attitude and aggression.

>>8528805
What's hypocritical about it?

>>8528820
>>8528833
These two will burn. Filthy hypocrites. This is coming from someone who is against anal sex one way or the other. You don't understand anything at all about manliness.

>>8528805
They were mainly concerned with reproducing and having a family. If you were a gay guy and didn't want to get married and have kids you would have gotten bogged. If you got married and had kids, but had sex with men after, they might not have cared.
You needed to fulfill 2 roles
1) Be manly
2) Have children
Beyond that you could do gay stuff. Also Odin was noted to have practiced some faggy magic and was made fun of it. As with all pagan mythologies there was a lot of genderbending too. The point is that they acknowledged variance. They may not have entirely liked it but they didn't pretend like it didn't exist or it was "unnatural".

>>8528842
You're so dumb. The worst part is that you're probably certain you are smart.

>>8528841
>You don't understand anything at all about manliness.

Self-loathing is the least manly thing there is. And that's what you have learned from your ugly religion. That is why you hate everyone else because you hate yourself.

>>8520667
So he can send you to hell faggot.

>>8528805
There is the same attitude in Russian prisons. Anybody who is openly gay or bi, touched vagina, shit, piss, or is a pedo is called пeтyх (rooster) and gets raped.

>>8528846
If you actually read up about this you'd see that, as far as anyone knows, it was all true.

>>8528853
I don't hate myself. I hate you.

>>8528841
It's obvious you're a Christian fag who's mad that most cultures don't demonize tops, only bottoms. My guess is that you probably liked it up the ass way more and you're mad that tops don't get as much flak.
>i-if I have to burn in hell so do the tops!!

>>8528870
I was right. You're so dumb you don't even understand why I called you dumb.
>>8528865
And then they talk of morality.

>>8528874
You're so dumb...

>>8527608
This is 4chan, if you're looking for reason, you're not in the right place.

>>8528872
You hate everything. You want to see it all burn in fire. You even based your twisted "morality" around the inferno you keep imagining.

>>8528878
>>8528883
Ignore this stupid troll faggot. All he can say is "you're so dumb" without providing a decent argument.

Anyways, which religion were you guys raised in?

>>8528885
Yes I do. Not literally everything though. There must be some good people on this rock...

>>8528878
Yeah, ex-convicts are huge moralfags. If someone in Russia is vocal about morality, they're either a criminal, a government official (priests included) or a 60 yo old lady. First two categories sometimes overlap.

>>8528895
This 'rock' is awesome. But if you convienced yourself that everything natural and normal is "evil" or "fallen" than of course you're going to be a sad sack of shit. That's basically what Paul's entire mode is; he was a failure in life and was made fun of by James so he conceived a theology that said life sucks. The entire idea of hell is that it's a revenge fantasy for people too weak to actually get their revenge in real life. And Heaven as a 'better place to be' only resonates with someone that can't enjoy themself in this life. So naturally to make the idea of after-life judgements appealing you need a theology that teaches that life sucks and that you suck too.

In other words it's theology designed to turn you into a whiny, pathetic little worm with no capacity for love (especially for yourself).

>Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

>>8529011
I bet that thing even thinks it is saved.

>>8528865

>touched vagina

>prison russians beat and rape you or whatever

???

makes no sense

>>8529663
he's saying that it's okay to rape people with sex-related convictions because they will enjoy it.

>>8529663
Genitals are considered filthy by them. One who touched other person's genitals is considered зaшквapeн (зaшквapeнa in case of a female, closest english word would be "defiled") and is thus reduced to the lowest position in a jail hierarchy.

>>8529699
>>8529712

Like a rapist, someone who commits rape?

Or do you have to be a virgin to survive prison?

I'm new to the world of Russian prison manners

Because Satan loves boypucci and God needed to placate the Other God

>>8529712
So if you rape someone aren't you then defiled?
Or does your dick touching their asshole not count as you touching their genitals?

>>8529719
Basically, the only kind of sex allowed among Russian criminals is heterosexual vaginal sex without any foreplay. Topping a dude is OK if no women are around, like in a jail. Consent should be there in the former case, but not requiered in the later one. Rapists and pedos are despiced by Russian criminals. However, gays are not considered human beings by them, so nobody's asking about their opinion.

>>8529737
Yes, this is correct.

>>8529615
You really are incapable of love.

>>8529738
Sounds lovely.
Praise Jesus!

>>8520667
Well I'm not actually religious but I love hypotheticals.

Assuming a god like is presented in most mainstream religions: gay people might be a form of population control and family management.
Look up the "gay uncle" effect.
The idea is basically that some genes increase the likelihood of someone being gay, but the genes need to be "switched on" so someone could be a carrier but not actually be gay themselves while family members that are gay will contribute towards the welfare and success of their relative children increasing the chances of the gene being passed on. There are also some ideas that the more children you have the more likely later ones will be gay.

>>8529738

Thanks for this, I was confused as to how macho straight criminals would be proud of being virgins, the rest of the jail attitudes sound kind of normal for jail (towards rapists and pedos, it's the same in my country) and the gay thing sounds like a cultural issue, I feel for Russian LGBTs

>>8529754
Not to those who don't deserve it...