How do you deal with transphobia? How do you deal with knowing

I just ignore it.

>>8519702
Do your best to keep yourself sane and safe. Can't really do much else. The world is awful and won't get better.

>>8519702
being trans is basically about getting so used to the fact that everyone wants you to die that it no longer affects you and then you transcend into immortality and makeup

>>8519702
We got the shirty hand, and we just have to deal with it. I dintnkno what to tell you. People hate us and want us dead or want to kill us. You can try not to think about? We can't fix it. It just is.

The sooner you accept that existence is pain the sooner you can get on with your life.

>>8519702
It's liberating, in a way. When you're hated so much, you have no expectations to live up to. You can do good just to feel good (but don't do it for attention, no one will care).

The best way to walk the Middle Path is to know it exists, and the cisnormative are seldom smart enough to find it. There's a reason wizards and shaman were always the outcasts.

Make your own truth.

>>8519702
>most people here want you dead
I don't think most here care enough to want you dead, they just find you pitiable and delusional, like an orphan who thinks their dead parents are gonna come back from the dead one day

>>8519702
Channel your pain into motivation, or let it consume you. That's the only choice you have.

Learning philosophy has done more than anything to make me more content with my life.

>>8519811
This, and also I focus more attention on people who do understand and accept me.
And it helps to think that some people who don't just haven't gotten a fair chance to consider that people like me deserve support, that we're not hurting other people by being who we are.

>>8519702
because most people are insecure as fuck and never mature so they take it out on less fortunate people without realizing it. Sadly most people are just sheeple who can never question or learn they just do what they are told for their own vanities.

Honestly who cares about convincing kids on 4 chan or sheeple in general you are literally dealing with a sheep op it's pointless. Just focus on what you can do in your own life and surround youself with people who see you as who you are a human being.

>>8519702
What if I don't hate you and want you to die? What if I actually support your freedom to live your live however you see fit and respect your willingness to go against the grain and be yourself? What if I'm also reluctant to call you a she if my brain registers you as a he? Or if I refuse to see you as being identical to an actual biological woman? Am I a 'transphobe' for seeing reality as it is, even if I neither hate or fear you?

>>8520253
it's very dangerous to call your subjective perception 'reality'.

And it depends. Think inside your head what you will, but if you refuse to respect a person in how you address them, yes, it does make you a transphobe.

nobody wants you dead because you're a tranny, unless you're also a raging cunt.

we want you to shut the fuck up for once in your life and stop blabbing about your miserable fucking issues and your fucking nutsacks.

You what a great way to get through life is around other people? fix your shit, dress and act appropriately, and stop talking about your fucking junk to everyone you meet.

>>8520303
So you're saying I should be dishonest with them? And that not wanting to be dishonest with them is disrespectful? I mean, can't you see how you're crossing the line here from 'live and let live' into forcing your views onto other people? I'm not forcing anything onto you trans people, I'm more than happy to let them have as much liberty as they want, as long as it doesn't start infringing on mine. You don't seem to be giving me that same respect though.

>>8520253
If you're going out of your way to call someone who is making a clear effort to pass as female "he" then I would say that's being transphobic. I don't think you should have to call them "she" either if you don't want to, but just don't go out of your way to hurt a strangers feelings, and your ok in my book.

>>8520253
If you refuse to call us 'she' because 'your brain' 'recognizes' something different, then yes, you're just another shithead. Your 'brain' doesn't force you to call a masculine looking natal female 'he' after you discover your mistake or vice versa, so it shows you're just another moron who thinks he knows the first thing about 'reality'. You probably also use the phrase 'human nature' unironically.

If you refuse to see us as IDENTICAL, well, that's no problem. You don't see a barren woman as IDENTICAL, either. See the difference?

One we can easily work with, one we can't (and is just an excuse).

>>8520327
>why do people get mad when i call them niggers?

grow up

>>8520327
When you see transwomen as men then it's simply you who's in the wrong.
That's like calling apples cars and then wonder why people think you're weird when you try to tell them they're wrong.

>>8520333
Well it's more of a matter of if my brain recognises them as female. And I don't even mean that they have to pass perfectly. In fact, I could be well aware that they're trans, but if my brain is seeing them as more female than male, I'd call them 'she'. In fact, it would feel really weird to address them as men if that was the case. Just as weird as it would feel to address the ones that I recognise as being more male than female as women.

So if I see a trans person who's clearly trying to look the part, but doesn't quite pull it off well enough, I don't go out of my way to annoy them by addressing them in an honest manner. I'd honestly just avoid calling them 'he' or 'she' at all. But sometimes it might just slip out anyway.

It really is a complicated situation. And I think we need to address it as such instead of demonising people who don't wish any harm on you at all, but just don't agree with your ideas on gender. I understand that calling an poorly passing mtf 'he' makes them deeply uncomfortable, but essentially forcing me to call them 'she' makes me uncomfortable too.

>>8520343
>If you refuse to call us 'she' because 'your brain' 'recognizes' something different, then yes, you're just another shithead.

What's interesting about this is that gender dysphoria itself can be characterised as the brain 'recognising' ITSELF as female (when the person is biologically male). So don't act like you're above this. Everyone's brain is wired to distinguish male from female. Just like it's wired for other social functions like identifying 'friend or foe' or reading body language and facial expressions. There's always going to be deviations from this (like autistic people when it comes to a lot of the social stuff), but you can't deny it's how the human brain usually functions.

And look, just like with these two >>8520343 >>8520348
Your hostile attitude here really isn't helping your case, and I suspect that these kind of views are going to come back to bite trans people in the ass at some point. I think the way we look at gender dysphoria and trans people needs an overhaul if it's this reliant on dishonesty and the creation of invasive social rules in order to get people to accept you.

>>8519702
I don't care what transgender people do with their bodies but many need to stop thinking that it's okay to show penises and vaginas in spaces that simply should not have those. It's disgusting and invasive.

>>8520382
You're not going out of your way to antagonize people.

Plus you address trans people who are putting in the effort in a way that's consistent with what you expect out of men and women.

You're right when you say it's complicated. It is, and a lot of people don't want to talk about it without throwing around insults.

From my perspective I don't think you should have to call a "poorly passing mtf" "she" if you don't feel comfortable. Just be polite, and try to avoid the whole pronoun game if you can, but it sounds like you're already doing that. As far as slips are concerned, people make mistakes. I can tell when someone misgenders on accident, and when they do it with the goal of getting under your skin.

So you're cool as far as this "poorly passing mtf" is concerned.

>>8520508
Well, I appreciate that. It's a pity everyone else in this thread can't be as level headed as you are.

>>8520529
No problem. At the end of the day the trans thing is just a part of who I am, but there's more to me than my gender identity. I've learned that most people are pretty cool, but sometimes they just get pushed too far by the zealots in the community.

As far as I'm concerned people don't have to understand it, agree with it, or even like it. As long as they let me live my life in peace, I'm good. It was nice talking to you.

>>8519702
Im not transgender.
From my observation, most transgender people did grow up in an environment they didnt like, where the people arount them were conservative in a way that they didnt really tolerate or like transgender stuff.
Is that right ?

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>>8519833
good post

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>>8519702
>even on this website, the majority of people disdain you and want you dead

>>8520303
But i think there is needs to be adistinction. You have a mentality thats like: either youre with us or youre against us.

In my mind, transgender people dont belong to the transitioned gender, and neither to the original gender.
The reason is simple. The biological gender is simply what defined gender for me. Everything else is individualism for me. Like i dont care if you call yourself Jeff or Jasmine, your biological gender, your genes didnt change.
What you are is a transgender person.
And that is no problem for me.
Now tell me if you feel that my stance is transphobic or not.

>>8520452
Hold up. You keep claiming this 'wiring', and to a degree you're right, but bear in mind that much of our 'wiring' is socially based, NOT brain based, and furthermore, that which IS 'brain-based' can be incorrect/miswired and as such is just a continuation of the naturalist fallacy. My 'brain' recognizes that my own 'tribe' is the 'friendly' and competing 'tribes' are the 'enemy', but I still maintain relationships among all 'tribes' and trusting everyone in my 'tribe' will get me killed. 'Wiring' that unreliable is only reliable for a first impression, then all bets are off after moment of contact. That's where your 'I-I'm just followin' mah biologee!' argument falls apart.

>>8520579
>gender identity
I really dont understand this.
How is gender an identity to you ? Its a biological reality. You cannot change your gender.

>you hate trans ppl

No i dont. The thing is, if you feel like the opposite gender, for me it looks like roleplaying. Youre trying to be of the other gender, because of your psychology. Yeah, go for it if it makes you happy. No problem.

My real question is this: what do you think of these multiple gender things that dont even exist and are made up words for things ?

>>8520624
I actually think its solely based on psychology.

>>8520616
The LITERAL epitome of privilege at it's finest.

"In my mind I invalidate your identity and that's perfectly reasonable to me..."

Jesus fuck. I didn't even believe in the CONCEPT of privilege until today, now it's impossible for me not to.

>>8520649
>invalidate identity

no. i know my text was really bad written. so here is what i meant.
Biological gender doesnt change.
If you feel like being a trans person, then do want you want i dont care.
But thats what you are. a trans person. And not a Woman or a Man. Because you cant biologically funtion as that and you have not the right genetics. Because thats the only thing that counts for biological gender.
Now if you want me to call you He or She then yes, i can do that. Because thats how you want to be perceived. But youre still no Woman or a Man because of the genetics. thats what counts in biological gender, you know ?
Its like a role playing game to you and i can understand that, because people have the right to do whatever they want.

Now tell me what has this even REMOTELY to do with some kind of privilege ?

like wtf

>>8520636
Yes anon, it's all roleplay.
Living on the streets because your parents kick you out is roleplay.
Hating yourself is roleplay.
Getting discriminated is roleplay.
Hell, even the rope around the neck is roleplay.
Damn anon, you've got it all figured all out.

>>8520678
Simple. You feel entitled to literally create your own definitions to avoid the 'discomfort' of having to amend something that was taught to you but discovered to be outdated. It'd be like if you still called your smartphone a 'rotary dialer'. If you're not capable of seeing the privilege in that, well, it must be nice to be cis.

>>8520678
>If you feel like being a trans person
This has got to be the rudest thing I've heard today.
Are you insinuating I chose to be trans?
Also what's with this roleplaying bullshit?
Are you saying I'm pretending to be something like a fucking actor?
Do you honestly think people subject themselfs to this torture just to roleplay a bit?
Are you really this dense?

>>8520684
Youre right, it was a bad choice of words.
I used it as a easy description, but really it should be like this:
The result of your biological and environmental circumstances and life experiences and your own behavior has much to do with your psychology and how you feel. Your psychology and feelings are a result of that. And that is your reality. What i mean by roleplaying is: You want to be another person because you identify this person and dont feel that youre like that. That is why you then proceed to try to be that person you aspire to be. But you really cant, and thats the conflict, the tragedy.
And i think i understand that, yes.
And to be completely honest, i think that psychology is a major if not the most important factor in this. To be exact: Your family situation and how you were raised. Thats just a hypothesis thought.Not everything of this needs to be true, its only what i figure.
But the thing is: The physiology of your brain determines how you feel and act.
And i think it is possible to change this physiology that to a certain degree.

>>8519702
People don't want you to die if you turn out a cute enough girl that you elicit their maternal instincts

>>8520709
No. i just say that your brain makes you feel that way. No offense intended.

>>8520700
If im making words up, then lets just agree that i use the biological gender. Because everything else is not gender to me but identity. If you feel that it belongs to gender, fine. But for me these definitions are not important. Gender is only about biology for me. Everything else is up to the individual.

>>8519702
The issue isnt with apperance. You can be what you want, but never expect that any person will react the way you want them to. It also isn't helpful that the majority of people have to deal with constant bombardment of inclusiory legal shenanigans. All these spotlights on trans people won't help you become a part of society.

Danm, i feel like you guys get really fast real defensive and offended.

>>8520649

People are dying. And you cry about your body. Why cant you accept your body as it is ?
And this is a legit question. I want to understand why you, personally, are a trans person. And if you feel like that is offensive, then fuck off, would you ?
Because if i would be a trans person i would think about that and wouldnt get offended. And i already had conversations about this with trans people.

>>8520732
Nah, that's okay choomballa. Your description of roleplaying, anemic and fail as it is (hi, 35 year ACTUAL roleplayer here and no, it's not quite like being a tranny but it offers some very slight relief temporarily) and it's subsequent reference to 'wanting to be another person' shows me you're just another laughable failure of a /pol/ite. You were doing halfway decent up to that point.

Want to be another person. How do you get definitions SO wrong? That ones so laughable you actually managed to put me in a better mood. Thanks! =)

>>8519702
They don't really hate YOU personally. They just hate some vague idea that represents people like you in their mind. Plenty who "hate" you would actually like you if they talk to you, thus all the crossover with /pol/

To take a seat in the psychology armchair, a lot of the hate directed at trannies isn't even really about trannies. It's about sexism and homophobia and internalised self-hate and political religious bullshit.
Trannies are just a more acceptable target to project that shit on and are a useful political pawn for anyone.

>>8519702
I don't want you dead anon <3

>>8520756
Hello. Im happy that you could laugh. English is not my first language and i try to use words that resemble what i want to say, but that can be really hard. As a reader i would like you to try to get what i want to say and dont crush your teeth on the little things.

And dude. I said that it was a poor choice of words. And i wrote a paragraph win which i described what shoud be understood instead of the word roleplaying. It wasnt a definition, it was intended as a explanation of what i meant instead of the word "roleplaying"

>>8520732
Counterpoint; biology includes neurology and it's arguably the most significant part for humans with the importance of society.

>>8520771
Yeah, true. I mean genetics.

>>8520714
You've literally got it all backwards. Literally no one wants to be a certain person. This is literally not what trans is about.
If anything you become truer to the person inside as you make the body more agreeable.
What you are essentially saying is that trans people are deluded men that want to become women, which is positively obnoxious.
But since you come from a cis perspective I get that you'd never bother actually understanding trans people. Must be nice to be able to just dismiss it all as a disorder so you don't have to change your worldview.
I really don't know anymore, what's so difficult about entertaining the possibility that gender could be in the brain even for a split second.
You don't question the fact that female bodies have female minds in them.
But the possibility that you could have a female mind in a male body through some mix up in developement always sounds weirdly outlandish to people, why is that?
I get you don't want to offend people, but imagine this stuff happening to you.
People telling you you're not a cismale, but rather demote you to something else.
"But I am cis male" you say, "My mind and my body are all male"
No that's just your psychology telling you that.
You're merely roleplaying as a man.
I'll never see you as a man, but rather as XYZ.

Imagine everyone doing that.It'll get infuriating quite fast, being excluded and invalidated like that.
Just because you have the privilege of your body matching your mind and everyone accepting that doesn't mean you should look down upon others that weren't as fortunate.
Have some understanding and compassion.

>>8520754
You know, I just started typing up a response to you and I crossed 2,000 words before I was a third done. I don't think I can explain why I'm trans to you.

Suffice to say the only thing I ever 'wanted' to be was NORMAL, and no amount of 'wanting' ever made that possible.

>>8520773
That's, frankly, stupid.
I mean ypou're basically saying the actual phenotype result doesn't matter to you as much as the initial "instructions".

Is the entire concept of epigenetics a fantasy for you?

Are intersex people some "exception" for you that don't need to be counted or considered in any concept of the world so that you can keep everything in neat simple boxes fit for any gradeschooler or autist?

>>8519702
It and other things are making me hateful of the world.

Realize most people are trolls and grow up and watch the anti SJWs who prove transphobis isnt a big problem

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What do you guys think normies think about us? Not 4chan edgelords altright kids but like the average adult normie who has a stable life and a job.

>>8520779
But isnt that just what i said ?
The physiology of your brain determines what your reality is. This physiology is a result of your genetics and life experience.

And i dont think that you cant change your way of thinking if you want to. If you dont want to, then you gotta live with the fact that youre trans.

Im not saying its possible for everybody. Im not saying it is easy. im not saying its neccesary.

Im just saying its a result of biology and environment. But mostly environment and the way people got raised. And thats just a hypothesis based on my experience.

Hell, i even talked to a trans person and explained him my theory and told him why he might feel like that and everything what i said turned out to be true. I kinda told him his past based on what his feelings were. And throught that, he understood them better.

Biological gender is still the way to go for me, personally.

Because you can identify with what you want. But the reality is that you are not biologically female/male.

Yes i will treat you like that and accept that you want are a woman in a man body or otherwise.

But i cant have kids with you and you were born as the other gender, so im sorry but there is no partnering up for me if you get my meaning.

>>8519702
I just laugh at it, they can't do shit, they're just stupid fucking cissies on the internet, none of them even have the balls to misgender irl, it's pathetic. I laugh at cissies every day and you should too

>>8520817
Is the concept of a karyotype a fantasy to you ?

>>8520700
>You feel entitled to literally create your own definitions to avoid the 'discomfort' of having to amend something that was taught to you
Says the person who gets triggered when they aren't called the other sex's pronouns.

>>8520843
>le triggered meme
Why should we listen to you, again?

>>8520834
You can change ways of thinking that are rooted in the Limbic or in Higher Consciousness with different levels of success.

You can not change the Reptilian, although it can be (moderately) conditioned (and primarily only through muscle memory; witness SEAL conditioning).

>>8520812
So you just scrapped it ?
Shit. You dont need to explain it perfectly you know ?
Maybe i can just understand what you mean only if youre typing it down. And maybe typing it down in clear words could help you to understand yourself better.
But all i can say is this: if you want to be normal that bad, then i think there is already part of your problem. being normal isnt the way to go. being yourself and dont feeling guilty or whatever about it is. Youre free. Many people give themselves mental barriers, as it is so easy in todays society. Let go off them.
I dont know if you have them. But i feel like many people have them and are not aware of it.

>>8520861
>he can't attack the argument so he memes

>>8520870
No, it's just that you're a retard. Triggered Pepe Cuck. Epic!!!!!!!!!

>>8520865
Interesting. I think love is more about Limbic system and higher conciousness than it is about the reptilian, isnt it ?

>>8520876
>he still can't make a single point
>he just memes more

>>8520887
Don't you get it, you stupid fuck? You have no integrity, so arguing with you isn't a gainful use of anybody's time. At the end of the day, you're still going to crawl back to your miserable understanding of the world, no matter what anybody says--likely because you're a narcissist who believes he's "smarter than the cucks and the Jews."

>>8520897
Who do you think this guy is ?

>>8520897
>he makes false ad hominem attacks
>because he still can't dispute a single fact

>>8520906
He just thinks I'm a random /pol/lack.

>>8520912
What is your argument? That "trannies need to stop being so triggered"? I don't really get it. What is there to argue? You just sound like an idiot.

>>8520868
Erm...and I'm sure you probably hear this a lot, but in my case I sincerely mean it...

I'm more than well aware of how the human mind works and I can accomplish much with mine that is considered....'extremely difficult'. There is not a simple mind-based answer for me, nor will there ever be.

As for not explaining it perfectly, it's kind of like a Jenga tower. Missing even one critical detail makes the whole puzzle fall apart, and I've been alive long enough that my puzzle is HUGE. It's one thing I despise about my situation.

>>8520923
Go back and reply properly from the start.

>>8520883
Love is higher consciousness. It's cut off the moment you can't think clearly, except in the most primal of cases (survival/family situations, for instance, but even then the 'love' is more 'survival utility').

Likes are Limbic (like things you natively like/enjoy but have no specific reason for as opposed to 'I like honeysuckle because it reminds me of my mother').

>>8520817
>Is the concept of a karyotype a fantasy to you?
Did you even read that post or do you have some failure of reading comprehension? I recognized and addressed it in the very post you're replying too when I talked about "instructions" versus actual results.
>I mean you're basically saying the actual phenotype result doesn't matter to you as much as the initial "instructions".
You didn't actually answer either, if anything responding with that question implies that you do think epigenetics is a fantasy or at least irrelevant and karyotype is the one and only full and complete truth of biology.

Again;
Do intersex people fit neatly into your, no doubt, comprehensive and well-thought out science-based worldview or do you need to ignore them and pretend they don't "count" so that everything fits into neat simple boxes for any autist or grade schooler?

>inb4 avoiding the question again and repsonding with shitposting

>>8520924
Wow that sounds really exhaustive. What if you let that puzzle fall completely apart in your head?
Are you afraid of that ? Letting go ?

>>8520834
>This physiology is a result of your genetics and life experience
And epigenetics.
It's more than just "life experience" that changes things from the baseline.

>>8520953

>inb4 what is a karyotype

dude. epigenetics tweaks stuff. But it doesnt fucking change an x to a y chromosome all of a sudden. Theres a difference between organizing what you got and having a different thing from the get-go.

>>8520970

ehm. thanks but what i said contained epigenetics so your answer was redundant.

> inb4 high schooler who just learned the word epigenetics

>>8520962
...the actual fuck are you going on about? It's 'exhausting' holding my history in my head? Or that my life's experiences are what have shaped me, and recognizing this is 'hard' somehow?

'Let go'? Of what? My memories? I think you're misunderstanding the analogy, to be honest. I mean my explanation of things doesn't make sense when it's missing critical details, which is why it takes so long to type out.

>>8521013
yeah youre right i was talking bullshit.

>>8520979
>dude. epigenetics tweaks stuff
lol either you're not too familiar with the science or you're just shitposting to misinform people by downplaying the significance to suit your argument
It can be the difference between having a life changing disorder or not.
It's probably the difference between being gay or a tranny or not.

Genes can literally be flipped on or off by epigenetic factors and for normal people living in the everyday real world and not just shitposting autists online the actual real-world genetic expression result is more important than some genetic code shit they can't see.

>>8520991
So you are just shitposting, thanks for making that clear to anyone who was looking on and may have actually taken you seriously.

>>8521037
>downplaying the significance
no i didnt downplay anything.

>Genes can literally be flipped on or off by epigenetic factors
yeah. i know.

what of which you said disproves my point or adds anything to it?
you know that epigenetics is a part of genetics right ?
And you know that epigenetics is influenced by the environment and everything as i can see in this:
> people living in the everyday real world

so why do you attack me
>not just shitposting autists

If you just agree with me ?

>>8521048
>doesnt understand that epigenetics belongs to genetics
>doesnt understand that epigenetics changes because of life experiences
>doesnt point out whats wrong about the original point

youre shitposting, not me.

>>8521037
Also
>It can be the difference between having a life changing disorder or not.
>It's probably the difference between being gay or a tranny or not.

that i disagree with.

>>8519702
>caring what anonymous people think about you on a shitty website

Are you some sort of pussy IRL?

>>8520779
Do tell, what is a female or male mind.

>>8519702
>even on this website
you do realize this is fucking 4chan, right?
why are /pol/ trannies this retarded

>>8519702
I don't. All that goes through my mind is "how do I stop (or at least dull) this constant discomfort", and that's stronger than anything anyone can say to me. Yes being insulted and called a boy makes me feel worse, but there's no fixing that unless people decide to be nicer.

>>8519702

I make porn and everyone tells me I'm sexy.

Srsly just stop trying to fit into normie world and you'll be a lot happier

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>>8519833
This one also stood out to me. Hats off.

>>8519702
Maybe if the overwhelming majority of trans people weren't self defeating attention whores constantly asking for advice or reassurance more people would like you.

Carry a concealed firearm for personal defense, and otherwise don't care.

People are entitled to think whatever they'd like of me. It only becomes my problem when I'm threatened.

>>8520321

this

>>8527102
Lady benis and tits or GTFO!

I'm trans myself but I hate transgenders and their politics, so I'm ok with the hate.

>>8527357

I'm worldwidewaifu on chaturbate

>>8520602
Have you ever spent a single moment browsing a political/non topic board in your entire life?