I'm not going to make it. I started too late, I will always

Don't stop, I know it's difficult but if you keep pushing you will find meaningful results. The key to success in life is simply not giving up, even when times like these emerge. I know it sounds cheesy and overdone, but people keep saying it for good reason: it's true.
Don't give up girly, you've got this.

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>not going to make it
Not with that attitude!

Aaaaaaaw, you can do it hon :(

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Don't kill yourself. Your life is worth so much more than your looks. I am sorry you feel like you are ugly or "look like a man" but please don't.

Being a woman isn't about looking a certain way or fitting a certain standard. There are cis women who look more masculine (pic related), are their lives worthless too or are you being extra harsh and hateful to yourself because you are trans? There's nothing inherently wrong with looking masculine. You are no less of a woman, no less beautiful, no less of a worthwhile and lovable and precious human life.

Listen to this song (only 90s kids remember this):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2gy1Evb1Kg

This one too lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq86e4Fhja0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44TRkB9dxvE

>>8384722
op on susan's in 20 years:
"When I was 2x I was so close, I was on HRT and had the most BEAUTIFUL long hair but I threw it all away because I didn't realize how good I looked! :'( Now I'm 4x and I'm starting again, Kathy's left me and taken the kids...but don't worry hon, I'll be the beautiful woman of my dreams! /blows a kiss
I just wish I hadn't been such an idiot when I was younger, hon. I could've been done with all this!"

>>8384722
Your post is probably the least shittiest post on this board. Have you seen the board quality lately? It's horrendous! You actually have grammar, an actual point to the thread, and quality conversation!

Don't kill yourself, we need less shitposts.

>>8384925
This post gave me cancer. Don't want to think of the possibility of that, and I'm not even going through what OP did.

>>8384870
the "woman" in your pic was born with testicles lmao

>>8384925
top kek
why does /lgbt/ have such a beef with susan's in particular? is it hon central?

>>8385051
>is it hon central?

Just go there. It's the most bitterhon-infested place on the planet.

>>8384945
>Don't kill yourself, we need fewer shitposts.
FTFY

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>>8385055

>>8385053
honestly, I personally don't have any issues with people who transitioned later in life. The biggest issue susan's has is it's strict ban on any discussion of self-medding. They see it as something really bad. Like, they think a psych needs to diagnose you with dysphoria and get you to an endo. Anything else is just not accepted.

Other than that it's just generally full of older people. You won't be able to relate to them similar to how you won't be able to relate to cis people of that age.

>>8384722
how old did you start? why didn't you start sooner?

>>8385108
What age did you transition?

>>8385144
im 23 now, at the start-middle of my transition though
(7 months hrt)

>>8385149
A G P
G
P

>>8385172
I read somewhere that the average transition age for hsts's was 25.9 years. Probably outdated now because that paper was published over 15 years ago.

>>8385051
/tttt/ and susan's are essentially the exact opposite communities
/tttt/:
>transitions young, has absurd definition of 'late'
>bdd
>punchboxes
>self-meds
>has convinced themselves srs is a meme so they don't feel bad about being unable to afford it
susan's:
>transitions late, has absurd definition of 'early'
>thinks they pass better than they do
>hugboxes
>anti-self-medding
>obsessed with srs because they transitioned after being rich businessmen and can afford it
/tttt/ has looked in the funhouse mirror and didn't like what it saw

>>8384722
I did it few years ago, it helped me

but I never stopped hrt

>>8385172
don't even try lol i'm not that new

i'm the biggest agp hon on this board lmaooo

>>8385244
t. AGP in denial

>>8385190
Don't forget the most important difference of all
/tttt/
>AGPs
susan's
>thinks AGP isn't a thing

t. AGP

>>8385255
>in denial

no? I'm straight up the most AGP it gets according to the /tttt/ typology :^)

>good at math
>likes girls
>likes NGE
>own thigh highs

I'm not sure what other boxes I tick but I'm sure Trent will gladly tell me where i fit in in his wacko theories

>>8385256
>implying /tttt/ doesn't deny AGP too

Source: >>8385280

>>8385256
susan's doesn't *exactly* think agp isn't a thing, they banned typology discussions a few years back because half of them admitted to being agp and the other half were triggered because they wanted to go around saying they were trutrans and everyone else was agp, but the typology proved *they* were agp and that trutrans is a meme
in other words, exact same as /tttt/ :^)
>>8385255
nah, she's upfront about her agp and doesn't have an issue with it
has an issue with the typology, but that's just because she's into the whole progressive feminist thing, not because she's in denial or doesn't want to admit it
at least, not any more than anyone else who does the same

>>8385295
In /tttt/, denying AGP is a meme.
In susans, AGP is a ban.

>>8385298
>she's upfront about her agp and doesn't have an issue with it
>has an issue with the typology,
"AGP is normal female sexuality" and "AGP is female sexuality when you're stuck as a male" ARE denying AGP.

>>8385298
Fair enough. I just think censorship of anything is fucking disgusting, beyond legal concerns.

>>8385306
Yet some extreme AGPs on this board have no problem denying experiences of people who don't fall 100% under their narratives.

>>8385321
I'm a fairly extreme AGP myself, but I don't judge others. Let people believe what they want, is my view.

I'm a non-transitioning AGP that wants to dodge bullets, it's that simple.

There's many types of AGPs, just as there is many types of trans people.

>>8385321
[citation needed]

>>8385298
>>8385306
for real though, agp is just a repression mechanism imo, it exists but it's not really that significant and goes away after you start hormones-transition generally.

I do kinda wanna hear some more agp stereotypes from my dude Trent pls

>>8385298
>>8385329
>agp is just a repression mechanism imo,
This is basically denying it even without explicitly saying "AGP doesn't exist". Moap has the exact same view of AGP and does say "AGP isn't real".

>>8385327
Just go into some thread full of AGPs and say it's just a fetish that can go away.

>>8385334
I'm not seeing your point?

>>8385333
... i mean yeah dude, AGP as some people describe it here, as something that's purely a sexuality/reason people transition and not just a byproduct of dypshoria and repression is something i 100% deny the existence of.

>>8385333
AGP can be a repression mechanism for some, but for others it is a very real phenomenon.

The only issue is, you don't know whether it's just repression or not. I really hope I don't have to end up eating a bullet in 20 years or end up a hon. But til then, I'll be perfectly fine.

>>8385321
>have no problem denying experiences of people who don't fall 100% under their narratives.
Ahem >>8385343

>>8385345
>AGP can be a repression mechanism for some, but for others it is a very real phenomenon.
Then what's the difference?

>>8385351
yeah, I have no problem denying the experiences of some people. I do this too to people who transition but claim they don't have dysphoria - they are just kinda adhering to a strict definition of dyshporia made up by right wing trans guys (very similar to Trent actually, I just realize) on tumblr a few years ago, so called truscum.

>>8385361
What's the real definition of dysphoria?

>>8385351
The difference is, some AGP's don't need transition, while others do.

If you think you're AGP, it's probably better to take the gamble and not transition.

>>8385372
you mean the medical definition of dysphoria as in the DSM-V or a summary of how dysphoria is experienced by all the various different people of the world?
>>8385378
wrong
if you're agp you should think more about what you want.

>>8385378
>The difference is, some AGP's don't need transition, while others do.
Do you notice how that definition of what you think are two different kinds of AGP can only be observed in retrospect? Why do you think that is?

>>8385381
Whatever definition you had in mind when you said people who transition but claim they don't have dysphoria actually do.

>>8385385
>>8385381
Gender Dysphoria isn't a complete science.
The evidence for *both* sides is heavily, heavily lacking.

What we do know is this:

Transition is an option for transgender people.
It's an incredibly painful thing for most people to go through, and involves extreme distress.
It's only worth doing if your life is basically not worth living without it.

We do not truly know the effects of transition, or even if in the very long term they are beneficial to most people. We can assume as such, but there is no adequate proof.

AGP is equally as valid as the other transgender typologies/theories/so on, becuase all theories are invalid at this stage.

In my opinion, there are multiple types of AGPs, some that suffer immensely and need transition, and others that do not, and can express themselves through other means, not needing transition.

However, some AGPs can feel as though they need to transition. Personally, I've thought for literally over a decade on what I want - and that is to not transition and to live my life.

In the end, more research is needed. But we'd rather sit here bickering about whether AGPs are legitimate or not.

>>8385385
i didn't have a particular definition in mind. Dysphoria is abstract and weird, it affects you in all these weird little ways, you can't really have an all encompassing definition of what it means to be trans because people's experiences are so hugely varied. However this then manifests itself very often in "i wish i was born as the opposite sex" or "i hate this gendered aspect of my body and i wish it was different"... basically at this point your brain has subconsciously, or consciously detected the problem (that your gender doesn't match your birth sex).... and hence you have the diagnostic criteria that are present in medical literature. People just get confused sometimes because they think that the way they experience dysphoria doesn't match up to the common mainstream narratives that exist (i've hated my genitals and was gnc since I was 3 years old etc etc), or because it manifests itself in the ""correct"" way (hsts) as opposed to the ""wrong"" way (agp) (as if these experiences don't vary vastly between people... this is why Trent has like a million subcategories for his typology lmao).

Basically I'm a terrible writer and I got distracted so I'm not sure if my main point got across, but yeah, my point was basically, if you want to be a girl (as amab) or a guy (as afab) or some form of enbie that wants to be more androgynous or whatever, you're most likely trans and should just transition, and the decision is up to you.

>>8385409
not an argument

>>8385407
This, minus should transition. Not all trans* people/AGPs/HSTS/whatever should transition, that's a very dumb idea when transition can be life-ruining.

Dysphoria is nearly impossible to describe, it's very abstract. Everyone is different, again a big reason why people should respect other's beliefs on transgender typology until there is more research in order to prove it one way or the other.

Right now, it's almost a religion, and it shouldn't be.

>>8385417
you sound upset anon did I hit a nerve there
>>8385419
i mean i did say
>the decision is up to you.

>>8385417
I have the belief that transition should only be considered in cases of transition or suicide, or absolute assurance that one is trans in some manner.

If one can live, with AGP without transitioning, then one should do so unless it causes enough distress to the point they need to transition.

Also, if passing is important to someone, and they know they will not pass, transitioning is utterly illogical.

>>8385429
dysphoria can be a subtle thing though, it can nibble and gnaw and cause all sorts of things like depression, anxiety, personality disorders etc... Are people really obliged to wait with transition until they are reduced to suicidal non-humans? Obviously no one should be forced to transition, but being forced to not transition is quite unethical.
>>8385430
same honestly

>>8385430
There's no point in flaming someone that has a different narrative than you. It's not going to get anyone anywhere.

If we ever want to see trans* people, AGPs, HSTS, or ANYONE relating to trans things be helped, we need more science, and most of all more options.

We need more support for non-transitioners including non-transition options, people need to stop shoving transition down people's throats as the ONLY option, and most of all we need to stop going at each other and be a little more logical.

>>8385403
Blah blah blah. I asked you why you think it is that this distinction between repression AGP and very real phenomenon AGP can only be noticed in retrospect.

>>8385407
>but yeah, my point was basically, if you want to be a girl (as amab) or a guy (as afab) or some form of enbie that wants to be more androgynous or whatever, you're most likely trans
Fair enough.

>People just get confused sometimes because they think that the way they experience dysphoria doesn't match up to the common mainstream narratives that exist (i've hated my genitals and was gnc since I was 3 years old etc etc),
That's less common than not because HSTS is a minority thing and there's an AGP majority. But the AGPs keep quiet and pretend to have had the HSTS experience because of the denial of the typology by people just like you.

Imagine how unpleasant that confusion is!

>as if these experiences don't vary vastly between people... this is why Trent has like a million subcategories for his typology lmao
No, there's aren't "subcategories". There are only two categories, the two types of trans people, HSTS and A*P. "Subcategories" are simply shared experiences.

>>8385429
>I have the belief that transition should only be considered in cases of transition or suicide
By that point it's often too late. A teenager who hasn't fully undergone puberty yet may know he wants transition but not be suicidal over it. If you stop them, eventually their bodies will become more undesirable and suicidal tendencies will follow.
> or absolute assurance that one is trans in some manner.
So you're advocating for hellish gatekeeping?

>>8385433
This x10 trillion.

The honest truth is the overall mental healthcare for *ALL* issues is heavily, heavily, heavily lacking. We need more support, plain and simple, and not just for us, but for ALL people with conditions relating to "mental health".

>>8385435
This is also true, in regards to dysphoria. However, transition is an absolute measure, and something that should be avoided as it has the potential to make things much worse for a person, rather than better in the long run.

If you feel as if transition is truly the best option for you, and you feel as if you are GOING to end up like a suicidal non-human, then of course you should transition. I would never advocate for someone being forced not to transition.

But there should be many more *options* for those that feel transition isn't right for them. There simply isn't, and anyone who suggests otherwise (AGP, exc) is confronted with not only dysphoria, but trans people bashing the shit out of them.

For the extreme AGP blanchatards, they're obviously a bad thing. But being open to different possibilities is absolutely important.

>>8385440
Okay, so you're a troll. Good to know, will ignore your posts from now on. Don't read my posts? I won't read yours. Get some respect.

>>8385445
Absolutely not, I would not advocate for gatekeeping, as that is cruel. I'm talking about *OPTIONS* here. Namely, if one wants to transition, then they should immediately get the help they need, rather than getting fucked over by doctors for years.

What about those that don't? Or people who have heavy doubts? These people should have options, rather than "You're trans, transition". There is little to no resources for these types of people.

>>8385472
>Okay, so you're a troll. Good to know, will ignore your posts from now on. Don't read my posts? I won't read yours. Get some respect.
I read "I can't answer your question" very clearly.

>>8385439
not per se
people get ptsd from all sorts of things but they still need to receive treatment for it even though the source of ptsd has gone away.
Similary people can get all sorts of shit from GD but will still need to be treated for those when dysphoria goes away or becomes less.

>>8385440
>That's less common than not because HSTS is a minority thing and there's an AGP majority. But the AGPs keep quiet and pretend to have had the HSTS experience because of the denial of the typology by people just like you.
people have vastly different experiences. It's true that for a long time in the past, many (most) trans people had to often lie and give the "correct" answers to gatekeepers in order to fit into some sort of stereotype in order to be allowed to transition, but sticking your typology on top of that is pretty unscientific imo. In addition it makes your typology quite meaningless.

>No, there's aren't "subcategories". There are only two categories, the two types of trans people, HSTS and A*P. "Subcategories" are simply shared experiences.

Trent is this you? Don't drop trip on me please. I distinctly remember you outlining a number of subcategories to AGP in a thread very similar to this, don't turn this around.

>>8385455

>But there should be many more *options* for those that feel transition isn't right for them.

are you aware of how many things have been tried in the past though? Like do you have an idea for something that might not have been tried? The problem is that currently, transition is the only thing that's been known to work. The issue is that making "more options" available is just further medicalizing something that doesn't really seem to be a medical issue. People could be denied transition or be forced into alternative healing methods by parents or peers. Like how my ex gf was forced by her parents to go to this ridiculous conversion therapy thing.

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>>8385361
sertii, what definition of 'right-wing' are you using that includes me (pic related) and truscum (literally tumblr stereotypes)?

>>8385494
in a similar vein, what would you consider the negative aspects of transitioning?
>>8385500
honestly unless you're a communist or an anarchist or at the very least a socialist you're pretty right wing to me

but for real a compass doesn't tell me much, I have a friend who calls herself a fascist but is around where you are.

>>8385488
I am well aware. But science takes time, and more research, and more help for people that don't want to transition is needed.

Transition DOES NOT WORK for some people, period. For these people, there is absolutely zero hope.

Also, there is very little proof that this is not a medical issue, or a mental illness. There has been only a very small amount of studies in regards to being trans, and there is simply not enough proof. One or two papers is not enough.

I don't have any specific ideas, beyond more research. Not much is known about being trans, nor how people become trans. There are many theories, but there are zero conclusive proofs.

The problem is shoving one specific narrative down people's throats when it simply is not going to help them. I don't want people to be denied transition by any means, but I do want non-transition options.

Currently, people who don't want to transition ARE forced into alternative healing methods because there is quite literally zero other options than "Just transition".

Conversion therapy is known to not work, after many many years, I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about the equivalent of experimental therapies and real science in order to figure out new solutions.

This will never happen when there's a huge backlash against anything that goes against the trans narrative.

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>>8385503
does 'was a demsoc until super recently, still probably am but just in flux' count
you should *probably* qualify that you're defining 'right-wing' as 'right of ancoms', though, lest people think you're describing actual right-wingers

>>8385507
some of the people described were legit conservatives

some of them were friends with terfs?????

i used to have a lot of run ins with terfs in tumblr and for some reason there was a big overlap between them and self-described truscum

the latter's deal was that they thought only genital dysphoria was actual dysphoria. no idea why the friendship with terfs though, maybe just hatred of other trans people.

>>8385507
ugh just go a little higher aaaa you were so close trent why do you dissapoint me like this ;-;
ancoms are like, far right btw

>>8385503
The compass is quite flawed, I consider myself fairly right wing and I'm in the bottom left corner as well. The explanation for this is the left/right windows shifting over time.

Also, a lot of the questions are flawed, and move you towards left while being right, and so on.

>>8385503
(not the person that you were replying to)
There is many aspects of transition that are negative.

Passing issues (For some people, this is NECESSARY for them to transition, if they chose to transition without it it would be equivalent to not transitioning at all)

Social/Economic factors, which while can be helped by acceptance, will always be a factor in some manner, especially on the economical side

Health issues, namely some people literally cannot transition as it would end in their death regardless, so their options are "suicide or suicide", and others that would be at an extreme risk of DVT or other issues.

Not wanting to transition but be forced to by dysphoria - This is a big one. Self explanatory.

And so on. There's many, many, many reasons not to transition, not the least of which being for some people it results in outright abandonment, economic situations equivalent to suicide, and such. Even ignoring social aspects, there are many reasons why one would not want to transition.

Another one of the big ones is transition isn't complete - for some people, they will never feel whole without being completely genetically female, which in this case means they're almost no better off transitioning than they are repressing.

>>8385504
i mean honestly, it has been argued in the medical community that changing the mind instead of the body would be unethical.. like there are alternate solutions to dysphoria, such as getting a lobotomy (probably) but the general consensus is that it's a condition quite deeply engraved in your very identity. Would changing that really be ok? I'm not sure.

>>8385516
>Passing issues
>Social/Economic factors
>Health issues
>not the least of which being for some people it results in outright abandonment, economic situations equivalent to suicide, and such

All sound like issues the health care establishment hasn't taken care of or social issues. This was my counterpoint to
>>8385494

>>8385518
oh lmao my bad i read AnCap for some reason, yeah ancoms are def far left

>>8385511
i used to be really familiar with several different parts of the tumblr truscum community (they hate me now, of course)
their political spectrum included about as many conservatives as most young afab-dominated internet communities (not many), and the terf thing was a trend that was popular a couple years back but has since truly ran its course and all the terf-truscums detransitioned

>>8385526
>the terf thing was a trend that was popular a couple years back but has since truly ran its course and all the terf-truscums detransitioned

that's kinda funny and sad at the same time

>>8385524
A lot of things are argued in the scientific community, that does not mean they are not valid. This would be a very legitimate concern to some people. I'm not arguing for a lobotomy here, I'm asking for a way to pretty much delete dysphoria. You wouldn't need to get rid of the identity, just the pain of not being it.

Changing the mind through anti-depressants, and anti-physcotics, and many other mind-altering drugs that are used by healthcare professionals is commonplace.

Also, hormones change the mind as well in quite a lot of ways as well, don't forget.

For those that wish it, as long as one consents to the medical procedure and or drugs to get rid of dysphoria, I see absolutely no problem with it.

I stress that this would be completely optional, and as a last resort of last resorts to those that do not wish to transition or for those that cannot transition.

There are also many, many ethical concerns with transition itself. It is just the current known best treatment method.

>>8385550
>>8385550
obviously, the idea is that dysphoria (or, your gender identity, to be more precise), is so deeply ingrained into you that making it go away would pretty much be only through a lobotomy. There's a lot of evidence for this (brain structures etc) things that can't really be changed by pills.

>There are also many, many ethical concerns with transition itself.

what are those?

>>8385563
idk there's a lot of evidence backing it up

>>8385560
Detransitioners and permanent surgeries for unproven narratives, being the biggest concerns there. There are more, but not off the top of my head.

The current narrative is the idea that your gender identity is deeply ingrained into you, but *this is not proven*. There is only a very small amount of evidence that this is the case (The brain structure / BSTc papers), not a huge amount - and it could be fixable without something as drastic as a lobotomy. As far as is known, it's perfectly possible that it's changable and targetable through some sort of drug or receptor changing medicine, equivalent to how selective receptor medicines work today, but for trans people, or even a full blown cure.

We still do not know the mechanisms for how people become transgender, either. While we have brain scans showing trans people in the ranges of their target gender, we do not have anything more than this for the most part.

It is quite possible it has nothing to do with identity, as we truly don't even know identity or conciousness even works.

As long as these things are not known, it is ludicrous to assume it is unfixable or unchangable without something along the lines of a lobotomy.

>>8385576
But if we have no clue how to fix it or where to even begin with that, it's pretty much unfixable today.

>>8385507
>dat map
My nigga

>>8384750
rude.

>>8385584
Very true. But pushing the trans narrative, at the exclusion of all others, means that we will never have a chance of figuring that out. It's unfixable today because of the backlash of anyone trying to.

Since nobody is open to the alternatives, there is no chance of us finding out.

>>8385592
THIS. It's simply more profitable to push narratives, rather than fund actual hard science into figuring out a real cure.

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>>8384722
None of us will ever pass 100%, or be happy, it's just part of life. Try not to dwell too much on the bad thoughts. Find something to do to preoccupy the bad ones and help expand the good ones. Try to find hobbies that aren't gender dictated like sports. Hell there are even leagues where both genders play on one team. Don't focus your life so much on gender, and more on being a human. Life shouldn't just be a focus on being trans and the constant struggle, it should be a focus on what can I do with the little time that I have here. Eventually we'll all die, whether it's suicide, natural, or intended. At the end of the day we're all going to end up dead, either 6ft under, forgotten, or in an ern. Just try to focus on all the fun you can have now, even if it's by yourself. Putting too much emphasis on the "what if's?" will make you miserable.

>>8384722
The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what any of us do, at the end of the day we are not real women, and never will be at this point in time, and that's okay. The more you start to look at the world from a logical point of view the better you'll feel. Yes we're all men in dresses, but who cares? If other around us really get that upset over a piece of a cloth on a body then they're a little insane. If being this way is what shuts your mind up, and allows you to be a person again, then what's the problem? Old people are usually happier then younger people, at least where I live, because they've realized how stupid everything really is, and that half the stuff we worry about isn't really as serious as we, the younger ones, make it out to be. I'm sure most people here understand dysphoria in some sense, and it's fucking terrible to have, but the end of the day you can't change it. If you've already made it this far, and you're really as terrible off as you say you are why not try a little longer. You can't go any lower after you've hit the bottom so the only thing to do is suck it up and push forward cause those happy times will happen again, and so will the sad ones.

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>>8386075
>None of us will ever be happy
I'm happy.

>>8385378

>If you think you're AGP, it's probably better to take the gamble and transition.

According to the evidence I've seen that's the corrected statement, and the younger the better.

>>8384722
I mean if you're gonna kys you might aswell skip the whole hair and trashing your feminine things part

>>8386075
>>8386082
bretty nice responses honestly
thx

>>8385500
Individuals of one political inclination can fall for the lies of another due to a variety of reasons. For example, autism :^)

I couldn't even do it. I just ended up crying myself to sleep. Sorry for making this thread.

>>8384925
No, there is no way I'll make it another 20 years.

>>8386212
If I managed to do all that it would take the last hope I have from my life and make killing myself a lot easier.