As We Rightfully Applaud MTF Athlete, We Must Acknowledge Many

"As her father, I never think about it as competition," Rahsaan Yearwood said. "This is not about winning and losing races. This is about the health of my teenage daughter.

"In terms of the fairness aspect, I don't think about that as a father. I only think about, is my daughter happy, healthy and able to participate in what she wants to do? I don't care if she wins or loses. I don't care if she wins and gives the medals back. She got to compete as a girl where she feels she should compete. That's all that matters to me."

This is a complex genetic landscape and what you can expect of people in their 20s is different than what you expect of a high school athlete. There were tests in the past that were humiliating.

States are all over the place on transgender high school athletic participation. There are some, like Connecticut, that do not mandate any hormone therapy or surgery. There are others that require modification or require case-by-case review. There are others that require participation based on birth certificate, surgery or a hormone wait period. And there are yet others that have set no policy.

But what about a high school girl who simply wonders exactly what is an equal playing field on a track in New Britain?

What do we tell these girls?

A transgender girl's journey is more important than your journey?

After the 200, Hall sat in the stands, searching for words to match her emotions and found a level of grace.

"I can't really say what I want to say, but there's not much I can do about it," Hall said.

"You can't blame anyone. Her times were slowing during the season. If I ran my best race, I could have won. I didn't. I hadn't felt good the last three days, but there are no excuses.

"From what I know she is really nice and that's all that matters. She's not rude and obnoxious."

As transgender athletes build victories in women's sports, start gaining college scholarships, there is a resulting affect on Title IX. Championships, paid education, these are athletic quandaries.

"Having played football, there are guys who were 350 pounds," Rahsaan Yearwood said. "It wasn't fair that as a 225-pound linebacker, they came to block me, but that's the nature of the beast."

Athletes are never created equal, some will argue, so what's the problem with transgender athletes? If this is argued to its conclusion, of course, the question becomes why differentiate between boys and girls sports at all? Why differentiate weight divisions in various sports?

This isn't easy and those who say it is are lying.

Yearwood said his daughter will begin consultations in June about hormonal treatment.

>>8380706
>>8380709
>>8380716
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/22/sports/22runner.html

>>8380706

I was about to say it looks like it came down to race, based on the picture in the OP, but watching the actual video, she vastly outclassed even the other black runners. Plus, she looked manly as hell so I'm wondering if she ever started hormones in her life, and if she did how late was it? It seems she's 15, but she looks manly as hell for a 15 year old.

>>8380716
>>8380912

>Yearwood said his daughter will begin consultations in June about hormonal treatment.

Oh my God, no wonder. This motherfucker should never have been allowed to compete against the girls. The school districts need to stop being all-inclusive and restrict competitive sports to people who have at least been on hormones for 2 years, and possibly even to only those who have been on puberty blockers since before or early puberty (tanner II or so).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

Obvious fake news and you're also the ban evading pedophile, get out or you get reported again!

So the big thing here we must address is: should women be competing in the first place if they in no way can beat a man?

If women are so bad that just a random trans women can beat them we have a problem. Remember trans people make up like 0.2% of society so there are 500 cis girls to 1 trans girls and none of those 500 cis girls can hold a candle to a trans girl.

Also if women can't compete with men in sports why do we pretend that women can compete with men in anything?

Why are women so incompetent?

>>8380706
>They are clear. Andraya should be able to compete as a girl.

>The question of what is fair competitively is nuanced and difficult.

She should get to compete.

but im better than her.

i deserve the medals.

>>8380925

The article says the girl in the OP isn't on hormones though. It says the state they're in, Connecticut, doesn't even require hormones for trans athletes to compete. That's very different.

Also, even if HRT lessens athletic advantages that testosterone gives, I'm not 100% convinced that a late transitioner could compete against cis women. Mainly because of the pelvis. It's said that the female pelvis impedes bipedal movement, and a late transitioner will have a male pelvis that will not hinder their movement on two legs.

>i lost by 1 second
>after a 3 day flu
>Im just.....i cant even talk about it. i just need to walk alone
>I just...urrrggghhh!!!!! *punches locker*
>ITS NOT FUCKING FAIR.
>I SHOULD HAVE WON BY A LOT.

there there babies, dry your crocodile tears. i brought enough trophies for everyone to win!

I remember what happened at Casey's birthday party, how you cried and cried and cried that casey got presents and you didn't.

Trans women are not the same as cis women I don't know why we pretend otherwise. They are very very different types of human beings.

>>8380950
>should women be competing in the first place if they in no way can beat a man?
Against each other sure. Sports is healthy and has a lot of physical and mental benefits.
>Also if women can't compete with men in sports why do we pretend that women can compete with men in anything?
Because
1) Level of dimorphism vary depending
2) Dimorphism swings both ways, so like...women are better at ultradistance swimming, investing, academia, etc.

>>8381189
Ignore the troll.

>Trans women are not the same as cis women I don't know why we pretend otherwise. They are very very different types of human beings.
Sure, but post-HRT transwomen are around as strong. The only reason the competition was unfair was because the trans woman isn't even on female hormones.

>men make better women
On one hand I want this to keep going and have transgendered monsters dominate women's sports for shits and giggles, and as a slap on the face to the 'gender is a social construct' retards, but I feel genuinely bad for the women that just can't compete with biology.
There is no arrangement that makes everyone happy here. It's unfair for women to have trannies completely wreck them, and putting them in male categories or, God forbid, a trans category of their own, will make them feel like their identity isn't recognized or like freaks that need the 'other' category.

File: dagostino1.jpg (812KB, 2944x1963px) Image search: [Google]

812KB, 2944x1963px

>>8381213
>because the trans woman isn't even on female hormones
So a dude was competing against girls.
Why are you even defending this lunacy?
Even after his balls shrivel on HRT there remains the massive difference in lung volume, blood capacity, generation of power and above all the fact that the fucker has a male skeletal structure.
You obviously have no idea just how much more efficient the males are when it comes to running. Female Olympic records are routinely broken by males in high school.
I hate analogies but this is like pitting a high performance sports car against an SUV.
It is that unfair.

>>8381229
You can't have 99% of population bending over backwards for such a tiny minority. Not to mention no one wants to watch such an unfair competition.

>>8381333
As far as I know post-HRT transwomen aren't significantly more physically capable than women.

>Even after his balls shrivel on HRT there remains the massive difference in lung volume, blood capacity, generation of power and above all the fact that the fucker has a male skeletal structure.
You sound rather hostile here. Height, for example, is not by itself a predictor of speed.

>>8381189
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html

All the studies say otherwise pedophile
Now ftms will dominate women's sports

>>8380706
Sounds good

When females cannot longer compete, not even in their safe spaces they will go back to the kitchen.

>>8380706
Absolutely unfair, stupid and will only bring derision and hatred toward the trans community. I am a lazy, non-athletic trans woman 20+ years on hormones and I could easily overpower any cis woman I've ever met who is my age and level of activity. A trained martial artist or an athlete could probably kick my ass, but all else being equal, trans women benefit hugely from that Y chromosome when it comes to sports.

>>8382872
>am a lazy, non-athletic trans woman 20+ years on hormones
Obvious Sussans hon is obvious

Not everyone is a massive 6'5 shaved gorilla like you. A skinny small femboy wouldn't have any advantage over a woman of comprarable lean body mass.

>>8380950
>should women be competing in the first place if they in no way can beat a man?
This is actually a good point. Regardless of hormones, she won't be able to compete against boys. Why do cis girls get their own feelgood category when they can't make actual records, only "for a girl" records, but trans girls can't also compete in the feelgood medal-for-everybody category?

>>8380924
>>8381333
Why do cis women get to compete against other people of their lower standard when now other group does? Shorter people, less fit people, different races, etc all have different capabilities. But none of them get to compete only against people like themselves. All of them have to compete against people who are guaranteed to be better physically capable than they are. The only group that gets that special treatment is women.

Why do you think that privilege should be exclusively for cis women and not trans women? Do you not see mtfs as women?

This is all before asking about the issue of trans men, who might be stronger than the average cis woman but less strong than the average cis man.

Opponents of transfolk, especially of MTF transwomen, competing in athletic events and sports, are right about a key fact. Men, on average, do have greater physical strength and cardio-pulmonary capacity ON AVERAGE. That is to say, that both men and women, boys and girls, vary in their natural athleticism on Gaussian curves that largely overlap but are offset from one another. I don’t have the data handy so I can’t list the effect sizes. But my point is that because of this offset, the elite men will beat the elite women, nearly every time, unless something about being female is privileged in a given event (e.g. figure skating advantages shorter, lighter women with a lower center of mass). One never hears complaints about hstses who lose at every event to all of the girls. We only hear complaints about agps and adults who win at the elite level. And yes, statistically, we do expect that, especially for “late transitioners”, that at the elite level, transwomen will have the advantage of having a long history of higher testosterone exposure that begins to privilege males begining in utero. While HRT and SRS will reduce current levels of androgens and result is decreased muscle mass, it will not erase the advantage of earlier exposure, most especially upon cardio-pulmonary capacity. Life just isn’t fair.

First, consider professional sports. At the deepest level, these are entertainment businesses, first and last. One would think that anything that increased the entertainment value would be encouraged. After all, action movies aren’t anything like real life, they are pure entertainment.

>>8386911
Trannies are not women period.

What are my chances of becoming a female Olympian if I started training now?

>>8390821
Depends on your country, because whether or not you're allowed to compete as a woman depends in part on whether you've changed your legal sex.

Since deep down, this is about sex, competing for mates, and evaluating mates, intersex and transsex people need not apply. If this was truly about fairness, we would say, well… that hsts MTF did win the genetic lottery… if in an unusual path. But because we know that she can’t actually bear children, we feel disgust, revulsion, and tell everyone “it isn’t fair”.

Life just isn’t fair… and we instinctively want our children to have the best chance at success. We don’t want our athletics and sports to be truly “fair”… no we want them to be as cruel as possible… to weed out the weak and inferior and reward only the strong, healthy genetic stock who will give us strong healthy children and grandchildren. Life just isn’t fair.

Life just isn’t fair.

>>8380706
>Was it fair?
As fair as sports get.

>On a biologically competitive basis, it was not.
Since when was sports fair on a biological basis?

>>8380706
>As We Rightfully Applaud This Man Who Played Against Women and Stole the First Place, ...

>>8380924
It's school sport, who cares?

>>8390566
This doesn't increase entertainment value though. It's like teenage boy sports teams beating Olympic women teams every single game, except now it's individual sport, so "women" compete with women and win every time. Women won't let it happen.

>>8390952
>Women won't let it happen.
You just found the problem.

>>8390937
>It's school sport, who cares?
Well, let's say that Kate Hall may have been up for a track scholarship in college had she won. But she didn't and the scholarship goes to someone else. I'm sure Kate and her family care.

>>8391385
Why on earth would a track scholarship care about finishing number, rather than finish time?

>>8392459
Hopefully a fair point in this case, but what about every other sport?

>>8395121
What about them?
It's a measure to see who has the biggest biological advantage... What did you think sports was about?

Do you think we should have height limits in basketball, like 5'6? And figure limitations for swimming, like needing to be pear shaped?

>>8380706
Whoa I'm from Stonington. Weird seeing it mentioned here of all places.

>>8386911
Idiot. Have you ever heard of weight classes in boxing and wrestling, two of the most celebrated sports in history?

>>8395217
That's the implication of gender segregated sports, with different events for people who are inherently better or worse.

Why does a woman get a free pass from not racing against men or transwomen but a short man doesn't get one from racing against taller people?

>>8396348
Have you ever heard of every sport ever besides those two?

>>8399230
>mfw changing my legal sex soon
>mfw gonna play women's soccer and become pro and nobody can stop me
>mfw i don't even have a face

>>8386911
The physically disabled get their own category as well. But you're right. Women should be allowed in/ forced to compete in mixed competition.

>>8399254
More people like you and women's pro soccer teams might possibly not lose every single time to teenage boys' amateur teams.

>>8399270
The disabled get their own events alongside the able-bodied events, not as an alternative like men and women or weight categories. More like chess, there there are mixed and female tournaments.

For example, Oscar Pistorius got gold Olympic and Paralympic medals, competing in both events with the help of his prosthetic running blades.

>>8399303
isn't it cheating to use aids in real olympics?

>>8402778
They just give him normal running capacity.

Leftists should deal with the monster they created.
"Equal rights for women."
"Men can claim to be women."
Well, there goes the mythical "wage gap" and any other garbage Leftists support.
Wake up and realize that if gender is a social construct, transgender is also a construct. Meaning transgender is not real.

>>8382948
lel if u only knew

>>8406181
>implying the wage gap isnt real
its only about 1%, but its surely real

>>8380706
>Stonington junior Kate Hall, who had won the Class M 100 last year, brushed back tears after she had finished second behind transgender female Andraya Yearwood of Cromwell in the 100
>"It's frustrating," said Hall, who finished third in the 200. "But that's just the way it is now."
So they moved up from third place the previous year to second.
Are we blaming trannies for her not improving even more or what? Why else bring up such details?
>A transgender girl's journey is more important than your journey?
What loaded question, as if that's the only option. As if you couldn't say the same for anyone who loses to another. You need to be more subtle.

>>8408657
>You need to be more subtle.
It's from some trashy journalist. He's not trolling, he's just ignorant and transphobic.

>>8382872
I'm a one year on hormones MtF and my one year younger cis sister is far stronger than me, and she always has been. She's not an athlete or anything either, pretty sedentary in general.

What I mean is blanket bans are dumb. Not every transwomen is like you nor are they all like me. This kind of thing should be examined on a case by case basis.

>>8410782
>This kind of thing should be examined on a case by case basis.
Same for weak cis males?

How far above the female average or female record does an mtf have to be before she's banned and made to compete among guys?

>>8410789
Preferably all sports would be seperated into tiers like boxing is, based on size, strength, endurance, etc rather than a simple male/female divide.

>>8410803
This actually makes sense.

>>8410744
>>8408657
If your only argument is that they are "transphobic", then you don't have one. It stands that Kate Hall was totally screwed over and will be forgotten. She had to lose because she was forced to compete with a man's body in a track race. If she took enough testosterone to match Andraya's serum test, she would be removed for drug use.

This is bullshit. Trannies, especially MTF (the pushiest) and especially MTF who have not made hormonal transition, participating in women's sports is absolute nonsense and completely sexist.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/transgender-female-boxer-gives-female-opponent-concussion-breaks-her-eye-so

>>8410803
Until then cis women have no right to complain about trans women.

>>8380991
>>8380950
>>8386459
>>8386911

lol the male supremacists in this thread defending trannies

trannies are men

this one isn't even on hormones. it's not even remotely the same as women competing against women.

>>8410803

all this because people with dicks can't accept they're not women and should not be in women's things. amazing.

>>8410789

>not knowing that access is based on years of hrt, not records or averages of competition

why are you here?

>>8412825
Yeah, they absolutely do.

Testosterone, especially when produced by a male body for a long period of time, has an effect on athletic performance. Period. If a real woman wanted blood serum testosterone to match that of a trans like Andraya, she would have to take anabolic steroids. Many FtM DO take steroids to transition.

>>8412811
She had no right to run in segregated sports to get a "and here's one so girls don't feel left out" medal and pretend she's as accomplished as a male athlete who can beat men or women.

>>8412832
This. The mental gymnastics are astounding. Even the OP's title smacks of bizarre Newspeak supremacy..."As We Rightfully Applaud MTF Athlete...". Really?

Let women compete among other WOMEN if they want to. Andraya is a huge, huge step backwards for women's rights.

>>8412872

>Andraya is a huge, huge step backwards for women's rights.

Everything about the trans movement is a huge step backwards. There's nothing good about any of it.

>>8412869
It's patronizing. I can't imagine being the 2nd place girl and having to very, very carefully step over eggshells while being interviewed about my feelings on "losing".

I hope she knows she didn't lose. Kate won that race. Andraya was on 'roids, as far as I'm concerned.

>>8412825

I think you're just excited at the possibility that no woman will be able to participate in sports, misogynist.

>>8412884

>Andraya was on 'roids, as far as I'm concerned.

He's literally a fraud. Simply not a girl. If a girl was on roids and competed, she probably would have performed differently.

>>8412880
Just shut up and fuck this tranny lol MtFs aren't misogynistic at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujRLfW9hY

>>8412897

I'm into dick but not Riley. Riley is a coercive piece of shit.

Anyone who believes it's ~society~ that makes lesbians not like dick is a piece of shit.

>>8412846
If she's happy for all men to compete together and all women to compete together than she is a hypocrite if she wants to claim unfairness when she gets beaten by an mtf.

>>8412917

That would imply men are women. They're not. This particular mtf is not even on hormones. There's literally NOTHING that puts him in the "female" category at all.

>>8412917
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3554857/

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/fashion/10Fitness.html

Hate to break it to you, but Andraya is not a "female" because of long hair and insistence on feminine pronouns. He hasn't even begun hormonal transition. This competition was rigged, and when checking olympic athletics standards, it's obvious that Andraya certainly had an advantage due to his NATURALLY OCCURRING SERUM TESTOSTERONE and shouldn't have been able to compete anyway, no matter what gender he identifies as.

>>8412890
>misogynist
You keep using that word. I think you do not know what it means.

>>8412934

Hey, you tell me you're not excited at the possibility that women will lose Title IX protections and get pushed out of sports, I will MAYBE believe you're not a misogynist. Hell, try to grow a little sympathy and understand that Andraya is literally a teenage boy with GID, no hormones, nothing. Those girls didn't compete against other girls, they competed against a boy.

>>8412934
Synonym: SEXIST, referring to someone who is prejudiced on the basis of another's SEX. Not "gender identity", fucker. Piss off.

>>8412932
>>8412933
>missing the point

>>8412964
>Those girls didn't compete against other girls, they competed against a boy.
"SEXIST, referring to someone who is prejudiced on the basis of another's SEX."

>>8413088
They grasped the point, it was just wrong.

>>8413149
>They grasped the point,
Can you tell me what it was?

Correct. It is sexist to say that women cannot compete if they are using anabolic steroids to increase their testosterone, but, a man, who may have as much blood serum testosterone as a woman taking roids, is allowed to compete with women despite a disadvantage that ANY BIOLOGICAL WOMAN would have been disqualified for.

Not only was this deluded boy allowed to compete, but he was allowed to compete AS A BOY because rules that would have applied to women did not apply to him.

>>8413181
>natural biological differences mean people have to have separate tournaments
>but only for one biological difference and not the millions of others
How do sexists think this and not realize they are sexists?

>>8413169
>If she's happy for all men to compete together and all women to compete together than she is a hypocrite if she wants to claim unfairness when she gets beaten by an mtf

Pretty sure this is saying that a woman who is upset a tranny beats her is a hypocrite because the tranny is, somehow, a woman.

If that wasn't the point then I'm not sure what the point was supposed to be. Your other posts are basically saying the same thing.

But yeah, no. MTF =/= female. Even if it somehow did, there are far many more standards in female sports that Andraya would have been kicked for. So the point is moot anyway.

>>8413202
You can't say people of different strengths should be separated in only one case, that of gender, when you don't say the same for others.

That's why Miss Hall deserves her loss.

>>8395217
>Do you think we should have height limits in basketball, like 5'6? And figure limitations for swimming, like needing to be pear shaped?
You're fucking delusional. Sexual dimorphism and testosterone make the world of a difference. I don't think you realize how weak, even athletic women are, compared to the average skinny male.

>>8417910
>Sexual dimorphism and testosterone make the world of a difference.
So does height in basketball.

Why do women get their own competitions but short people don't?

Not to mention that test and dimorphism varies immensely within men and women.

>>8380924
>The school districts need to stop being all-inclusive and restrict competitive sports to people who have at least been on hormones for 2 years, and possibly even to only those who have been on puberty blockers since before or early puberty (tanner II or so).
No. No accommodations. Born women only.

>>8418025
Enjoy being pounded to dust by an FTM!

>>8418050
>taking massive doses of testosterone wouldn't trip the doping filter

>>8420282
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2017/02/27/anger-as-transgender-wrestler-born-female-and-taking-testosterone-breezes-through-womens-tournament-triggering-complaints/

>>8380716
>Yearwood said his daughter will begin consultations in June about hormonal treatment.
...

If male skeleton etc. makes a difference over women, shouldnt aspiring female athletes just overcome this by taking testosterone in puberty?

>>8427527
Shows the flaws in the transphobes' logic.

>>8430001
How so?

>>8380706
It's 2017. It's about time we stop caring about gender.

If this means women no longer win anything, so be it. That's what they asked for, after all.

>>8434222
>That's what they asked for, after all.
This!

>>8423809
welp

>>8438562
?

>>8380706
>>8380709
>>8380716
tl;dr

To be honest I don't think anyone truly recongizes 'her' as a true winner of anything. Everyone involved realise they have an advantage and feel sorry for the cis women in the race.

It's stuff like this that make trans people look like bully's.

>>8381189
>Trans women are not the same as cis women I don't know why we pretend otherwise. They are very very different types of human beings.
Yes, they're men. Every cell in their body is encoded as a man no matter how much hormones they take.

>>8430001
No it doesn't

>>8447757
This person wasn't even taking hormones, that's why he won.

Like I have zero idea why we have decided, as a society to go from "lets not bully trans people and let them BEE themselves" to "lets pretend trans women and cis women are the same thing and 100% interchangeable". Its so fucking stupid.

>>8447791

Oh and if you ever say "hmm looks like cis women and trans women are awfully different based on the fact that one is biologically male", then you are an eeevil bigot who wants to hurt trans people. Wtf.

>>8447791
Trans women would kill themselves otherwise. But honestly they need to make more of an effort to fit in. Cis women don't win races, so this person should have thrown the race.

>>8447802
>Trans women would kill themselves otherwise.
Would they? They must know they aren't cis gender. They are trans. Why not make a trans women league? Why not do stuff with other trans women?

Cis women win races fine when running against other cis women.

>>8447586

'Cause bleaching your mustache is so much more important.

>>8447791
>we have decided, as a society

the mainstream media does not speak for us
it is propaganda designed to divide and conquer

>>8447819
I'm "trans", technically, and I would never willingly associate with trans women, at least not in the sense of being lumped in with them as opposed to cis women. Thankfully, I avoid athletics for this exact reason (and because I'm very weak), but if trans and cis women were getting split up for any other reason, there's no way I'd go with the tranners. It would be just as traumatic as when the boys and girls were separated for bullshit back in school. "Trans" is just code for male now, there is no functional difference between being called trans and being called a man.

>>8447819
>Why not make a trans women league? Why not do stuff with other trans women?
This. There should be trans women races and Title IX should ensure they get just as much funding as cis women races.