>Feel fine for a while >Dysphoria hits >Feel Really

thats just how it goes, think of it like a whirlpool, the left side is male, the right is female. You will cycle faster and faster through until you get sucked to the bottom and drown. There is a rope on one side; HRT. You can pull yourself out with it, and once you're out of the whirlpool you can either let it go or use it keep climbing. If you choose to keep climbing it will be hard, but you might make it try.

>>8305515
I do the same thing, but being a man just seems tolerable. I don't like being a man at all.

>>8305515
How much is this correlated with how easy transition seems? It sounds like the first situation happens simultaneously with feeling transition is hopeless, but does the second happen when you feel it is more doable?

>>8305951
Transitioning convincingly feels entirely out of reach during both phases. I just don't give it much thought when in the second phase.

>>8305515
Just take hrt and stay in boymode, you will feel so much better. You can always stop taking it after a month or so with no consequences if you change you mind

>>8306177
What about breast growth?

>>8306686
Only minamal. I did this and it just made my guy chest slitly bigger

>>8305515
I thought it was just me. It's the reason that I've questioned if I'm trans or not. People seem to make it out to be a constant feeling of loathing over gender. I'm glad I'm not alone.

Highly relatable content, OP. Right now I'm in the part of the cycle where I think I'm fine living as a man. My mental image of myself is always female though

non-binaries struggle is real

>>8310678
Same here anon I have questioned myself and at the end of it i feel more and more female when I think about the future its always me a a girl and if I think about a male me it makes me feel bad and weird then I lie on my bed depressed af

>>8305515
Holy shit I was thinking the same shit today. Currently on the
>"Whoa well being a grill would be nice but I mean I clearly don't feel like I'm one inside or whatever i'm pretty fine with being a man"
stage

>>8310668
It's not just you, it comes and goes. I don't believe I'm trans, more AGP (call me repressed, or whatever) but this post describes how I feel on and off. Whenever I'm down (doing nofap now so yeah.. as agp) my mind wanders to this stuff and I think too much about it.

Kinda fucked tho tbqh, as I made the mistake of self-identifying as female, but screw being a hon.

>>8305583

Thanks for that terrifying analogy that reflects my experience thus far with way too much accuracy.
(not OP)

>>8311304
This. Except there's no rope, and you don't know where the bottom of the whirlpool will lead.

>>8311303
>I made the mistake of self-identifying as female
How so?

>>8311316
Video games. 10+ years of pretending to be a girl online exclusively(never use voice tho lol.)

And when I pull out of the fantasyland, I'm stuck with the false image I got.

>>8311324
You could have developed the image anyway.

>>8311303
>>8311324
Don't be silly. Normal people don't just pretend to be women online. You did so because you felt the need to, and you felt the need to because you wanted to be a girl even in non-sexual contexts.

>>8311326
I guess. But a lot of my female identity as such was created through my many years pretending to be a girl online. If I chose otherwise, "she" wouldn't have grown to be as much of a problem.

>>8311334
>If I chose otherwise, "she" wouldn't have grown to be as much of a problem.
Why do you think that's what made it a problem and allowed her to develop, when she might have just appeared anyway only differently, perhaps less explicitly?

>>8311332
I did enjoy the non-sexual contexts, but only because I made all my online friends through said identity, living a very long time (online) as said identity. It would be purely sexual otherwise.

>>8310668

It's constant in the sense that it always comes back if untreated, and that it doesn't just appear out of the blue after you took your first gender studies course.
But it seems pretty accepted that it comes and goes. Same with depression, where sometimes people think they can't possibly be depressed because they feel okay some days. Fuck, even when you have a simple cold, you're not necessarily sneezing every second.

>>8311342
If she had appeared less explicitly, I'd just be a more feminine guy. No harm no foul.

The issue is I've created an idealised female version of the self in my head that is fetish fuel, to the point of it impacting my life. I'm not a girl, nor feel like one unless I'm in "girl mode".

>>8311343
Are you saying that you spent years upon years pretending to be a girl in your day to day online life but that you got nothing out of the being a girl part but sexual fulfillment? Doesn't that sound odd to you? I don't know you but pretending to be a girl online before transitioning is very much a thing among repressed transsexuals.

>>8311348
Why couldn't she have been inexplicit and still given you gender issues?

In what way do you not feel like a girl normally but feel like one in girlmode?

>>8311349
See >>8311348
It was a way to live out my fantasies as the "ideal person", but with the female sexualised element to it. I act very differently and even feel differently in my fetish time. It's roleplay taken too far to the point of it infuencing me in real life.

There is a lot of my life now tied to that identity, and I need to let her go, once and for all, and make my life better rather than make my entire life a fantasy.

>>8311353
Okay look
if you're feeling dysphoria in the pattern OP described
and you've spent many years pretending to be a woman and enjoying it
then you're probably trans

>>8311352
Well, it's kind of hard to explain. I almost have two completely different sides now. My fantasy world, completely different identity personality, different feelings -it's like I'm a different person. But the main, initial motivation is sexual in nature, and my true self is simply an extremeky nihilistic, depressed mess, where I use mental gymnastics to avoid reality.

I'm a perma-neet which lets my mind wander to this shit.

>>8311356
Well aware of that. However, I believe my problems come from a sexual target error, not because of innate gender identity.

Plus, there are many other reasons where even if I was full blown transgender, I would not transition.

>>8311353
How has it influence your real life? What would you like to change through letting her go?

>>8311357
How different are the two people?

>>8311362
>However, I believe my problems come from a sexual target error, not because of innate gender identity.
Are you aware that there is literally no evidence for this hypothesis?

>Plus, there are many other reasons where even if I was full blown transgender, I would not transition.
If you're suffering because you're not transitioning, why not transition?

>>8311362
>implying "full blown transgender" is different to what your feeling and not just less self-aware

>>8311366

It's influenced my life in many ways. Dysphoria being the obvious thing, but that comes and goes. Is almost always minor to nonexistant if I'm feeling even slightly good in my real life.

Mainly emotionally, and the fact my identity's all fucked up, and with all my general life problems I can't focus on fixing them when my identity is in turmoil.

In regards to differences, essentially completely opposite to each other. My female persona is simply a projection of what I'm not. It's my brains way of escaping my current life, not who I really am.

>>8311369
>Are you aware that there is literally no evidence for this hypothesis?
It's his lived experience.

>If you're suffering because you're not transitioning, why not transition?
He's suffering because of his desire to transition.

>>8311379
>In regards to differences, essentially completely opposite to each other. My female persona is simply a projection of what I'm not. It's my brains way of escaping my current life, not who I really am.

>my true self is simply an extremeky nihilistic, depressed mess, where I use mental gymnastics to avoid reality.

The "real" you sounds like a pale, barely alive shadow. Are you sure it is not the fake, escapist identity?

>>8311369
I'm well aware of the lack of evidence. But there is also equally a lack in why trans people are trans, and while there have been a few studies, they are lacking severely.

I'm not suffering because I'm not transitioning, I'm suffering because I have a fucked up life. It would only make it worse, to transition.

>>8311370
Well, that could be the case, but I doubt it very much so. I don't lack self awareness, I am fully aware of my life's problems. If I am "full blown transgender", then it doesn't mean I should transition.

>>8311381
>It's his lived experience.
One can't have "lived experience" of suffering from an Erotic Target Location Error because by the very way it is defined those who have it can't tell that they have it just by virtue of having it. It is a (supposed) inner psychological process inaccessible to the individual. If people could tell that they have it just by experiencing it then all of the gynephilic transsexuals would be able to tell that that is what is going on.

>He's suffering because of his desire to transition.
In the same sense that a one-footed man suffers because of his desire to walk.

>>8311381
This. Put it way better than I could. I could get my life in order if I didn't have this looming over my head.

>>8311385
I am sure of this, for quite a few reasons. This only appeared after I endulged in sexual fantasy in regards to being a woman, and then feeding it through many years of more sexual and non-sexual fantasy. But shadow does describe how I feel on a day to day basis, only because of the fact I'm trapped with this false identity.

I have not been able to improve my true self because I've been stuck in fantasyland. I'm working now on disconnecting myself from the fantasy, but it's hard work. So far, I'm at 53 days nofap, have severely limited my computer time, and so on. Self-improvement is the cure to escapism.

>>8311379
What will managing to let her go mean for you?

>>8311387
>but I doubt it very much so.
Why?

>I don't lack self awareness, I am fully aware of my life's problems.
I didn't mean you lacking self-awareness.

>If I am "full blown transgender", then it doesn't mean I should transition.
Indeed.

>>8311392
You equally cannot have lived experience of being a girl when you aren't one. Whether you agree with Blanchard or not, both theories need a lot of work.

I'm more inclined to believe AGP is the correct one, at least in my case. With the addition of extreme fantasy, you see people that are even trans-species now. AGP is similar to that. Cut off the fantasy fuel, and return to the real world.
>>8311393
While I may be AGP forever, that doesn't mean I can't live a fufilling life by shutting off my fantasies for good, and getting into the real world.

>>8311387
>But there is also equally a lack in why trans people are trans, and while there have been a few studies, they are lacking severely.
That's true. We don't actually know why people are trans. I don't believe in the "trans people are just the other sex inside" thing either. What we do know for a fact is that transitioning helps transsexuals lead better, healthier lives. This is why the recommended treatment for transsexuality is transitioning. Even the man who suggested the idea of ETLEs supports transitioning as a palliative treatment for chronic cases of gender dysphoria in adults (which you presumably are, because you're on this site).

>I'm not suffering because I'm not transitioning, I'm suffering because I have a fucked up life. It would only make it worse, to transition.
Again, I don't know you well enough to make a definitive statement, but could it be that your life isn't the best exactly because you're depressed due to your gender issues? This is extremely common.

Cards up: I'm OP and I'm not transitioning, but only because there is absolutely no way I'll pass. I deeply, deeply regret not acting when I could. Not realizing everything I've realized by this point before it was too late. Don't end in my shoes. I'm very much a failure at life because I'm effectively useless a quarter of the time, when I'm paralyzed by dysphoria.

>>8311395
It will mean I will be able to move on from a false, escapist identity that has plagued me for a long time. I will finally be free, and able to find a real passion or goal in my life, I will break free from the depressive cycle of addiction of wanting to be a girl sexually, to put it short I will reclaim my life. And if I don't find any of that? Then at least I'm being my authentic self, which isn't female.

>>8311403
Because I am lost in fantasy, and AGP is the core of it. Once I can remove my fetish for it, or at least tame it, then I will be free to move forward and fix the rest of my life.

>>8311387
Just my personal $0.02 as someone who was "AGP" before transitioning but went away after a while. I think my AGP was just the only way my conscious mind could allow myself to indulge in the thought of actually being female and enjoying it. I had pushed these thoughts to the side so much that the only time they would pop up and I wouldn't ignore them was when I was being lewd. As I started transitioning and my libido dropped from the hormones I realized being a girl sexually wasn't the only reason I wanted to transition. In fact, my agp actually turned into a normal androphyllic biased bisexuality. Sexual situations were just the only situation my mind had been allowed to think I wanted to transition. Now I'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of wanting to be a girl in all aspects of my life. I still get turned on at the thought of being a hot girl, but now it's because the guys I'm attracted to would find me hot and I feel hot knowing they think I'm hot. Anyway, don't discount how badly repressing and testosterone can fuck up your sexuality. If you're anything like me agp was just the tip of the iceberg under a sea of repression. There was actually a pretty normal albeit it (kinda boyish) girl under there.

>>8311405
>You equally cannot have lived experience of being a girl when you aren't one.
That is completely true.

>Whether you agree with Blanchard or not, both theories need a lot of work.
The alternative to believing Blanchard's baseless theory is not believing in some feminine essence narrative. It's bravely standing up and admitting "I don't know".

>With the addition of extreme fantasy, you see people that are even trans-species now. AGP is similar to that. Cut off the fantasy fuel, and return to the real world.
Why assume the underlying problem is the same? A lot of AGPs have expressed AGP-like behavior ever since they were little kids. Historically pretty much all attempts to repress or rid oneself of AGP have failed, at least according to the records we have. On the other hand there are plenty of records of AGPs happily transitioning and leading fulfilling lives.

>While I may be AGP forever, that doesn't mean I can't live a fufilling life by shutting off my fantasies for good, and getting into the real world.
Why do you think this is possible when so many have spent decades submerged in hypermasculinity, repressing, before breaking?

>>8311412
Absolutely. I have many reasons both personal and non-personal as to why I do not wish to transition.

I still think I have a chance at ridding myself of this, without transition. It's the worst possible outcome for me, as I'm like 99.9% sure I wouldn't pass.

My life is fucked up due to extreme nihilism, tendencies of escaping reality due to the fact the world is basically torture and overall if I did transition, I'm quite certain my life would not change. Even as a girl, I would have the same issues I have now, but just trading problems for problems.

I've been a failure since childhood, and it's about time I pull myself out of the trap of fantasy, as denying reality only leaves you delusional.

>>8311432
The way out of your misery isn't to deny your desires, it's to make them a reality to the best of your ability. Obviously doing something that would hurt others is bad, but most people follow what their heart tells them to do and end up happy because of it. It's not easy, but happiness is only going to come by getting what you want out of life and that's going to take some sacrifices. You're just stuck with a want that society wrongly doesn't understand. It's still valid and an ok thing to want tho. You can even get pills from the doctor to help you get there without a diagnosis and they ask zero questions.

>>8311405
Anon, can we email?
[email protected]

>>8311412
>I'm OP and I'm not transitioning, but only because there is absolutely no way I'll pass.
When do you consider it to have become too late for transition?

Why don't you transition despite not passing?

>>8311419
Sexuality wouldn't be my only reason. It would be indulging a full fantasy, fetish and all, but like a roleplaying game. And I'm well aware how fucked my sexuality is. I'm agp-exclusive, namely as a guy I'm pretty much asexual, but with the female fantasy it's literally anything.

The goal would be to not repress, but delete that part of me once and for all.

>>8311427
Not all AGPs/transitioners are alike. I only developed AGP as a sexual thing upon puberty. Before that, I was completely and totally fine.

And if you were to succeed at ridding youtself of AGP, I very much doubt they would tell anyone. They would go on about their lives. But there have been cases of successful detransitioners, and some AGPs can live their lives until they die without feeling too many negative effects, I'm sure.

I'm aware I'm not a very masuline guy, but I'm not a girl. I don't need the crutch of hypermasculinity, as that is equally not being yourself and just repressing my actual true self, being a pretty normal but effeminate guy.

>>8311438
Completely agree. My desires are to rid myself of AGP, and get back on track with my life, not to transition. Also, even if I did want to transition, about the IC thing, I'm from Aus so that's a no-go, I wouldn't pass, I'd still be stuck in my horrible thought patters, I'd still be stuck in fantasy and not living happy, and so on. It's perfectly fine to be trans, it's just not me.

>>8311442
Sure thing. [email protected]

>>8311465
Addition, you'll have to message me. Don't want to give my real email for obvious reasons.

>>8311432
I see.
Please, at least go see a therapist if you aren't already seeing one.

>>8311451
>When do you consider it to have become too late for transition?
It depends on one's genetics. For me the answer is quite early. Perhaps I could end up passable if I had understood myself when I was in my early teens.

>Why don't you transition despite not passing?
My dysphoria is primarily physical. I don't much care about gender roles and whatnot.

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>>8311465

>>8311452
Dude deleting that part of you is the ultimate form of repressing. It is not going to make you happy, just miserable. You're so clearly trans it's not funny. The reason you're exclusively agp is because that's what you want out of life. You want to be a cute girl and have sex with people. That's ok. Girls want to be attractive girls when they have sex. It's a normal part of female sexuality to want to be hot and enjoy it. You're brain is just flooded with testosterone, stress and repressing and that is what's making you miserable. Not wanting to be a girl. Being a girl will probably make you happy. Girls want to be girls and boys want to be boys. It's not a fetish it's just human nature. desu it's probably the test and repressing that makes your sexuality feel all weird

>>8311470
Have been to 30+(as in literally more than 30..) therapists when I was younger, non-agp reasons. They were unable to help, even with medication. Was considered lost cause, stuck on Disability. Therapists and the like are a joke.

>>8311465
Transitioning is the way to get rid of your agp not repressing! That's why hrt is the most effective treatment according to science. You can even stay perma boy mode but just on hormones but I promise you that your path to happiness is probably through transitioning. You can always stop if you don't like it too. Self medding is a viable option and no one has to know until you feel comfortable about it. Repressing is NOT the answer

>>8311452
>I only developed AGP as a sexual thing upon puberty. Before that, I was completely and totally fine.
Not them but that seems familiar really, I didn't put much thought into gender/sex at all until puberty began, that's when I started making it a sexual thing fueled by testosterone since it was the only way I could accept it at the time.
Repressed for many years but eventually snapped, couldn't handle further masculinization, facial hair, balding, body hair etc., Went on hormones and transitioned, feeling infinitely better and can actually see a life in front of me.

>>8311478
>non-agp reasons
Have you talked to them about your AGP issues? If not.. that could be why they failed to help.

>>8311486
I'd never talk to them about AGP issues. I got either pretty much laughed at for having depression, told to take pills that don't work, told I'm just a bad person(not even kidding when a therapist actually said this to me). I'm so fucked, even doctors have no idea. I'd just get laughed out of the room if I said I have questions about gender. Every bit of my life that's gone right was due to my own personal hard work, nothing else gives me any bit of happiness.
>>8311485
Very common, yes.
>>8311484
I disagree. Transitioning would complicate my already stressful existance, and make it worse.

Anyway, I'm heading back to /r9k/ where I belong. Sorry for bothering you all.

>>8311499
>I'd never talk to them about AGP issues. I got either pretty much laughed at for having depression, told to take pills that don't work, told I'm just a bad person(not even kidding when a therapist actually said this to me). I'm so fucked, even doctors have no idea. I'd just get laughed out of the room if I said I have questions about gender. Every bit of my life that's gone right was due to my own personal hard work, nothing else gives me any bit of happiness.
I'm sorry that happened to you. There are good, competent therapists out there. Please make an effort to find one. They can help.

>>8311484
perma boymode is a meme
I really wish it wasn't
t. sad AGP

>>8311484
>hrt is the most effective treatment according to science
There is no science on treating agp.

>>8311507
what? did your tits grow too big or something?

>>8311508
Yeah because no one outside of 4chan calls it agp. Everyone just calls it being transgender

>>8311508
According to the AGP theory most MTFs are AGP, and the science says transsexuals do better after transitioning, so..

>>8311527
but are most AGPs MtF

>>8311516
my face seems to weird/creep strangers out now for some reason when it didn't before
and I'm trying my best to boymode with a buzzcut and skipping a shave sometimes
I really really don't want to grow a proper beard but I want to stop HRT even less

>>8311518
You actually think all trans women are AGP?

>>8311535
thats just (un)lucky you then, I'm just a more handsome man on hrt

>>8311534
Blanchard's typology (which I by no means endorse) suggests that dysphoria is the result of developing a cross-sex identity as a result of AGP, so if you're SAD about your sex and are AGP then you're trans according to it, and so would be in the group that benefits from transitioning. If you're AGP and not SAD about your gender then, well, no problem.

>>8311540
Not them but a lot are pre-transition, and stop being so post-transition.

>>8311505
I'm not kidding when I say I've visited over 30 different therapists. All of them were the same in some way. The only way would be to move country. Australia's mental health is trash. Physical is quite good, but zero support for those that truly need help.

I've improved a lot over the years, thanks to hard work on my end. I'll never touch a mental health doctor / therapist / so on again.

>>8311540
No but a lot are and it doesn't stop them from successfully transitioning into a normal woman

>>8311535
Maybe that just means you need to try presenting more androgynously. My boymode still works but I just look like an extremely pretty boy with small bumps under their shirt. It's really not that bad but I would look kinda weird if I tried presenting more masculinely. Maybe it's just your presentation / put togetherness in general. You probably look a lot more feminine so you really can't present the exact same way you used to.

>>8311679
Yeah I'm also starting to think that presenting really masc is just making me come off as an FTM
I really don't want to go too far and actually look like a failed tran though (despite being one lel)

>>8311717
Just take little steps and don't discount how far a cute androgynous haircut and some well fitting close can get you. I've had to change my style a bit, but googling cute androgynous haircuts and trying to find one that works for me has really taken my life up a notch. When my hair looks good i get a ton of attention in public, but when it looks bad people ignore me so hard haha. I think being in this strange gender in between, people really expect a lot more out of us than they would from an obviously cis het person. We can't just blend into the background like we used to as boys we really need to look polished to be accepted. But when we do look put together we stand out like a rare gem that people want to get to know.

This thread is hilarious

>>8311767
*clothes

I can't spell for my life

>>8311770
How so?

>>8311767
I don't want any attention thooo
I just want to blend in and be a face in the crowd
But I guess that's the hardest thing to do

>>8305583
Not OP but I feel like them. Anyway, after 7 years of depression I've gotten to the point where I want to know exactly what lies at the bottom of that whirlpool. IDK I think I've just become a masochist.

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>love to dildo myself imagining being a woman
send help

>>8305583
Or you could learn to swim.

>>8311814
>you are all trannies in denial
>enjoy your hondom cause you didnt start transition 5 years ago

>>8311898
It's good attention though! Really just small talk when buying food or people saying they like something I'm wearing or how my hair is styled. It would really embarrass me at first and I'd totally clam up and be awkward, but after a while I realized they're only reaching out cause they probably think I'm cute. They're the ones putting themselves out there anyway, and really all they probably want is some friendly interaction. I now find myself hoping someone tries to strike up a conversation with me when I'm out. Even if I'm a little awkward it's good practice and kinda flattering. If you're anything like me, it's not the interaction you want to avoid but the rejection. You just gotta remember that the only one rejecting anyone is you. By reaching out and trying to make small talk people are probably already accepting of you and maybe even like you a little bit. You learn to like it after the fear dies down and it's good validation and a chance to act cute for a stranger.

>>8312006
Can't be a hon if you repress forever
:blackmanthinking:

>>8306177
>Just take hrt and stay in boymode

I always see this and it seems like a meme. You always see either "hrt isn't a magic pill it just makes you look a year yonger" or "hrt is a miracle pill and will solve so many of your problems"

>>8312531
if you go half-way you will look really uncanny

>>8312590
this so much
t. tried to boymode on hrt and now only pass as ftm

>>8312590
And looking uncanny would be my biggest fear because I don't want people to think I'm a tranny faggot
even though i am one ;_;

>>8312697
You really shouldn't worry about what other people think. You're a human who wants to be cute and there's nothing wrong with that. Try your best to be a cute tranny faggot and find people out there who don't mind that you're trans. They exist and desu they tend to be better people than those who get so caught up on other people's identities. First step would probably be to stop calling yourself a tranny faggot though. That level of self hate ain't attractive and it just spreads to others and makes them want to avoid you.

>>8312614
Then start presenting female...

>>8311324
I've nearly exclusively been female online and in video games since 2001 or so. So from around 8 years old

>>8312531

The idea is that it won't change you physically (to a significant degree) but will likely make you feel better physiologically by having the 'right' hormone in your system.
Unless you really take to it, like >>8312614, in which case you should probably just go all the way.

>>8313341
For me, I only have been fully female online for 10 or so years. Past that, was half female half male, also some friends as male some as female.

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>>8312590
Jokes on you, I've been on HRT for over a year and haven't been gendered female once.

>>8311370
This is what I'm thinking. 100%ers are blissfully ignorant of the full picture. I envy them.