Are trannies the Nietzschean ubermensch/frau? >Ignore the

>>8273225
If I didn't fear death, I wouldn't be here.

>>8273229
Cast away your slave morality and become the titty monster of your dreams, Alice. There is nothing to fear but failure to strive for what is yours.

>>8273230
Exactly, though. I want to be a titty monster whose glory surpasses that of Skyrim porn mods. If I had decided to put myself out of my misery, I'd most likely never achieve that goal.

>>8273225
Now that I think of it, it makes almost perfect sense.

File: slug_of_atmosphere_by_milesdmonaghan-d3wvqom.jpg (316KB, 1024x1448px) Image search: [Google]

316KB, 1024x1448px

>>8273225
I always played with the idea of trans people being real world examples of Post humans. They fit the bill due to intentionally manipulating their biology towards their own ends.

File: wjANVCD.jpg (120KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 500x333px

>>8273225
This is pure bait, but just in case a delusional neckbeard sees this and feels good about his crossdressing ass, I'm gonna bite.

>Exercise extreme self-determination by refusing to be cowed by biology itself, working to overcome it to the degree it is possible

Nietsche's morality has enormous respect for nature as a guide, he even claims that he is trying to establish a moral system according to Darwin's conclusion.

Every tranny I know of is either extremely meek, or a wimp who has grown so bitter about his own impotence that he has become completely misanthropic.Textbook resentment fueled slave morality.

The politically active ones never shut up about their supposed oppression. They do so because in their minds their oppression/weakness makes gives them moral superiority (due to lack of privilege). Also textbook slave morality.

File: 1456015273690.jpg (21KB, 264x400px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 264x400px

just stop

>>8273261
Just because you dont fear death doesnt mean you are suicidal or go out looking for it. I personally do not fear death but I dont have plans on dying any time soon either. If I can Im gonna try to live as long as possible. That said if I were in a life threatening situation I wouldnt cower and hide either being afraid of death.

>>8273358
>Nietsche's morality has enormous respect for nature as a guide, he even claims that he is trying to establish a moral system according to Darwin's conclusion.
A slavish devotion to Nietzsche's own vision of what is right and wrong is in itself a form of slave morality, a religion with no gods. The important part of Nietzsche's work is what you take from it, because to feel compelled to take the entirety is an act of submission to authority unto itself.

>Every tranny I know of is either extremely meek, or a wimp who has grown so bitter about his own impotence that he has become completely misanthropic.Textbook resentment fueled slave morality.
Alas, not everyone can break the chains, but it is better to strive and fail than to give in entirely. By rebelling against society these people strive valiantly, even if they are not fully free. Yet.

>The politically active ones never shut up about their supposed oppression. They do so because in their minds their oppression/weakness makes gives them moral superiority (due to lack of privilege). Also textbook slave morality.
They're forcing a new moral system on the majority - their own. A moral code handed from masters to slaves. A master does not follow "slave morality" if they create a moral code and make others conform to it, even if those following that exact same code due to the masters forcing it exemplify slave morality. It is not the code itself that matters but how one has come to hold it.

>>8273358
This is false. While Nietzsche did believe in nature as a guide, he did not believe in Darwinian theory of evolution. He misinterpreted it by thinking, as many people do, it was based on the idea of "survival of the fittest". He goes on to say weak individuals eventually win against the strong ones, simply because they are more and, driven by their ill-will, they organize in groups in order to beat stronger individuals.
Nietzsche's theories of society and morals have nothing to do with Darwin's theory of evolution and people should stop naming the two in the same sentence.

File: 1484311161464.png (6KB, 253x199px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 253x199px

>>8273370
>A slavish devotion to Nietzsche's own vision of what is right and wrong is in itself a form of slave morality

Lets recap:
You: According to Nietsche, trannies are the übermensch because they defy biology
Me: Actually that's the opposite of what Nietsche believed
You: WTF! Who cares what Nietsche would think!

>Alas, not everyone can break the chains, but it is better to strive and fail than to give in entirely. By rebelling against society these people strive valiantly, even if they are not fully free. Yet.

The people who give in being the cis. Who didn't actually want to rebel in the first place, right? Also that doesn't change that empirically almost all trannies exhibit slave morality nonetheless.

>They're forcing a new moral system on the majority - their own. A moral code handed from masters to slaves. A master does not follow "slave morality" if they create a moral code and make others conform to it, even if those following that exact same code due to the masters forcing it exemplify slave morality. It is not the code itself that matters but how one has come to hold it.

The slaves actually forced their morality to the rest of society according to Nietsche though. It was still slave morality.

>>8273427
Whether or not he interpret it Darwin correctly, is irrelevant. I mentioned him due to Nietzsche's attempt to make a "nature inspired" moral system, which goes completely against OPs suggestion that Fritz would consider going against ones own biology as a characteristic of the übermensch

>>8273370
>>8273358
Never knew Nietzsche to attempt to establish any moral system, let alone one "based on Darwin". In fact I recall him criticising Darwin, claiming that sickness and illness was sometimes a good thing, forcing personal growth and developement and thus leading to strenght of a different sort.

As for SJWs, I think understanding them is easier with Nietzsche. Theirs is a kind of narcissistic nihilism in which the need of the ego to feel “good” and righteous becomes the only goal. They have no purpose besides virtue signaling in order to sate their own ego by way of feeling better than everyone else, which also explains the speed at which new problems are found and old 'issues' abandoned once they become widely accepted, as well as the tendency to turn against their 'own' over the smallest imagined slight.

In the SJW there is a religious kind of instinct: sin and forgiveness, the desire to condemn, the desire to find flaw in others as to showcase one's own virtue, the strong emotional response beyond reason or evidence and in fact the rejection of logic and science as heresy, the strict enforcement of arbitrary rules and the dehumanization of 'heretics' and the speed at which crowds turn against them, adherents feeling justified in cruelty because it's done against 'sinners', against those who are 'evil. And the shame, the guilt, the group-think, the violent enforcement of 'morals'... Nietzsche talked about all this, especially in On the Genealogy of Morality and to some extent Thus Spake Zarahustra; their ideology tge shell of religion after the conceptual 'death of God' and the failure to fill the void left by this.

>>8273488
His comment on Darwin, from Human All Too Human:

"Wherever progress is to ensue, deviating natures are of greatest importance. Every progress of the whole must be preceded by a partial weakening. The strongest natures retain the type, the weaker ones help to advance it. Something similar also happens in the individual. There is rarely a degeneration, a truncation, or even a vice or any physical or moral loss without an advantage somewhere else. In a warlike and restless clan, for example, the sicklier man may have occasion to be alone, and may therefore become quieter and wiser; the one-eyed man will have one eye the stronger; the blind man will see deeper inwardly, and certainly hear better."

So he literally would consider having BD as a chance to grow as a person. His interest in what actions one took would be moot; he would only care about personal developement and would not think of either supressing or transitioning as inherently good or bad.

>>8273358
>being this excited to try to deconstruct and tear down trannies who defy society in order to actualize themselves
>appealing to nietzches isoteric views on nature, as if ingesting estrogens does not develop ones body in a perfectly authentic way, because "i-its pills"
You're literally using nietzche to suggest that those who alter their body with medicines and chemicals are untermensche because they're going against nature. You are a retarded prole lmao

Slave attempting to claw the master down to a slave detected tbqhf

>>8273456
>You: According to Nietsche, trannies are the übermensch because they defy biology
>Me: Actually that's the opposite of what Nietsche believed
>You: WTF! Who cares what Nietsche would think!
Nietzsche expressed several different ideas in his work, some absolute and some relative. The absolute ideas he expressed were those regarding the absence of objective moral oughts. The relative ideas were his own moral oughts. I can accept the absolute, and take from the subjective what I want. To treat the subjective as objective is the very absolute of slave morality.

>The people who give in being the cis. Who didn't actually want to rebel in the first place, right?
Being cis just means you have one less reason to rebel. A cis person may or may not rebel. It depends on their actions. The very act of transitioning is a rebellion.

>Also that doesn't change that empirically almost all trannies exhibit slave morality nonetheless.
As almost all humans do, but at the very least those who strive to do better rebel to a certain extent rather than completely accepting their lot based on external moral ideas.

>The slaves actually forced their morality to the rest of society according to Nietsche though. It was still slave morality.
But what is the *origin* of this slave morality? The slaves themselves only accepted it due to external actors.

>>8273498
Nice post t b h

>>8273597
Oh, shit,you were serious. I thought you were trolling. No, believing the opposite of what Nietzsche believed on this exact topic does not somehow mean he would support your ideas, quite the opposite actually.

Parading your own inferior status as moral victory is the essence of slave morality. Even if the majority agrees and enforces that as the norm as it happened in Nietzsche's time and also now with the claim that there is no biological basis for gender

>>8273550
More like the master enjoying putting the slave back in line desu senpai

>>8273370
the slave revolt was when the slave morality (the judeo-christians tradition, christian morality) forced itself on western society, the slave morality can impose its will on others this does not make it a master morality

>>8273776
>>8273830
You are correct, but you are still conflating the tranny-community and the individual tranny. Like >>8273597 correctly points out, almost all humans exhibit slave morality; it is not surprising that most trannies will be the same. As will most gays, lesbians, chasers, furries, miners, politicians, teachers, etc. - most humans.

But this would make Nietzsche a critic of SJW-mentality, which as argued in >>8273498 he very much was, since he was smart enough to predict a modern god-free religion of sorts trying to fill the void left by God and expressing the slave mentality of the masses. (An interesting side-note is that he considered the burgeoning German nationalism of his time to be an expression of this.) It does not tell us anything about what he would think of individual trannies and their struggles.

We can infer, from the rest of his philosophy, that he would neither be a reactionary about it nor a SJW - nor would he care particularly about pronouns or transition or bathrooms or any practical concerns of that kind. His focus would be on the growth of the individual and the developement of personal strenght, on whom one choses to be: is one a victim of cispatiarchy or is every tittie-skittle one pops an arrow of longing for an unreachable shore? One suffers, but how does one bear one's suffering? Whatever choice one makes must be the choice that, given the option to live one's life over again, one would choose it again and again forever. This is true for everyone and hence must be true for the tranny also. Eternal return and amor fati and all that. (Yeah, actually reading the man and not just ABOUT him in a college intro course helps.)

>>8274001
I don't actually disagree with you. I just think OP's premise is total bunk, since there is nothing inherently positive, (-or negative probably) as seen by Nietzsche, about being transsexual. This is what the argument is about. In *theory* nothing about being trans makes you more or less "übermensch-like" than cis people. In *practice*, a ton of trans (far bigger percentage than cis people) people exhibit slave morality due to adopting the SJW mindset (again not because they are trans), but to be fair, the temptation is greater for them than for white cis-het males who would be at the bottom of the oppression totem.

>>8273225
Except that all the trannies I know are ruled by fear, anxiety, self-loathing, and above all an overpowering desire for things to have been different in the past. They certainly don't have what Nitzsche would call Amor Fati or the desire for eternal return. What little social influence they have over other is nothing they take pleasure in - if anything they feel guilty that they have to out special impositions on others. They hate to be different and they'd love to be the stereotypical member of a particular gender and meet every expectation. They're much more like The Last Man.

>>8274215
>nothing inherently positive, (-or negative probably) as seen by Nietzsche, about being transsexual.
True. It's just another obstacle life puts in your way and what matters is your attitude, not even how you handle it.

>a ton of trans people exhibit slave morality
Perhaps, meaning that those who don't are even stronger.

And cispeople tend to exhbit slave-morality in other ways: nationalism, consumerism, decadence, religion, etc. SJW-ism is just a particular brand that happens to appeal more to queers. But just like Christianity is in fact nothing but a smiley-face painted over nihilism, so is SJW-ism - actually being oppressed or maginalised matters to them as much as reading the Bible and emulating Jesus matters to Christians, i.e. almost not at all. It's about the feeling it gives, the security: you know what is good and bad and what your purpose is. There is comfort.

To strrive towards the ubermench is to be alone, exposed and vulnerable. There's no trodden path ahead, you have to make shit up as you go and accept that you'll suffer but that it will make you better in the end. It's not a fun way to live life. Not when there's patriarchy or Jews to blame, or girl power/white power to vindicate you.

>>8273776
>Oh, shit,you were serious. I thought you were trolling. No, believing the opposite of what Nietzsche believed on this exact topic does not somehow mean he would support your ideas, quite the opposite actually.
1) I am trolling but you can both troll and do your best
2) Of course he would not support them - he supports his own code! but that code is separate from the fundamental idea of a lack of moral oughts.

>Parading your own inferior status as moral victory is the essence of slave morality. Even if the majority agrees and enforces that as the norm as it happened in Nietzsche's time and also now with the claim that there is no biological basis for gender
What inferior status?

>>8273830
Yes but, again, how did those people come to believe what they did? Did that belief come from within, or from them themselves being converted to it? That is the difference.

>>8274001
>Is one a victim of cispatiarchy or is every tittie-skittle one pops an arrow of longing for an unreachable shore?
Inspirational t b h mein fampai

>>8274215
The upper class is still mostly theist in much of the world. I wouldn't let it off the hook.

>>8274243
[spoiler]You're right but in being right you're making it very difficult for me to continue funposting ITT which is a defeat of sorts[/spoiler]

>>8274279
Agree with everything. If OP made this point instead, I'd be 100% on board instead of sperging out

>>8273367
I meant that if I had managed to pull through my fear of death, I would be dead.

>>8274306
How would that be fun in any way? The conflict created by this thread is what brought you here. The conflict gave you meaning. A cause to strive against. A hill to climb. A test to overcome. A shot at triumph. A chance to grow.

Anon, you're nothing without me. I made you. You're defined by our struggle.

>>8274289
>What inferior status?

Your status as the downtrodden, oppressed minority

>Yes but, again, how did those people come to believe what they did? Did that belief come from within, or from them themselves being converted to it? That is the difference.

Yes, it came from within. If the masters imposed their morality, then the slaves would have -you guessed it- the master's morality. The description slave/master morality has a particular meaning that has nothing to do with whether or not they were imposed.

>>8274243
As are most people in general.

Also, "I love those who do not first seek a reason beyond the stars for going down and being sacrifices, but sacrifice themselves to the earth, that the earth of the overman may some day arrive."


>>8274306
Much obliged, I know my Nietzsche. *tips fedora*

>>8274332
I_was_only_pretending_to_be_retarded_but_with_üebermensch _crafting_instead_of_trolling_in_the_first_panel.jpeg

>>8274348
>Your status as the downtrodden, oppressed minority
The "victory" is not in being downtrodden, but in saying "fuck you ima gonna do me" to those trying to stop you from doing so. It is one of defiance.

>Yes, it came from within. If the masters imposed their morality, then the slaves would have -you guessed it- the master's morality. The description slave/master morality has a particular meaning that has nothing to do with whether or not they were imposed.
How to put it.. I think that I fundamentally disagree that what matters is the things you end up believing in rather than how you came to believe them. If one person ends up believing in a certain moral code because they were coerced into doing so unthinkingly by those around them, and another arrived to said code independently, through reflection and their own immutable desires which the code seeks to fulfill, the former could be said to be a victim of slave morality while the latter could not.

>>8274376
Come on now, you had fun. Admit it.

>>8273225
No. But they do follow the maxim of dying with pride since they being a tranny means you cannot live proudly.

File: ck0y75tedcvy.png (1020KB, 1040x892px) Image search: [Google]

1020KB, 1040x892px

>>8274378
The "victory" is not in being downtrodden, but in saying "fuck you ima gonna do me" to those trying to stop you from doing so. It is one of defiance.

What I was talking about was the SJW habit of elevating that downtrodden status as moral superiority. Not a trans thing, just very popular with the trans pepo as I explained.

>How to put it.. I think that I fundamentally disagree that what matters is the things you end up believing in rather than how you came to believe them. If one person ends up believing in a certain moral code because they were coerced into doing so unthinkingly by those around them, and another arrived to said code independently, through reflection and their own immutable desires which the code seeks to fulfill, the former could be said to be a victim of slave morality while the latter could not.

I think what you are trying to get at is: the slaves, even if they elevated their values as good one their own accord, in a way, they had no choice but to elevate their own characteristics (weakness) as good (morality) because that was all they had. My disagreement is: 1) the masters did the same (elevating strength as good) (although, you can say in turn, that since they were strong, they could have chosen any attribute as good, including weakness. I can't really get more into this because I'm too sleep deprived. At any rate, no2 is the crucial one) 2) You can't draw parallels between this and imposing an ideological position on a population because having the power to impose something on people, doesn't make you a master (see the imposition of slave morality by the Christians).

>>8274382
Oh, who am I kidding, of course I did

File: sjwevil.jpg (163KB, 1280x743px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 1280x743px

>>8273498
actually thats because it's a cult

>>8273225
this post makes me want to embrace transhuman androgyny

>>8274619
Which is what I said except I said it in a more pretentious way.